Controversial opinions about Final Fantasy

[Egami]

You've probably seen a similar topic to this in other forums but about music or movies, where people state controversial/unpopular opinions about the subject and others engage in discussion about it if they want or post their own opinions. Not just any opinion of course, but one you actually stand by :p


For example:

- Yunalesca is the main villain of FFX

- Lighting Returns is better than FF XIII

- FVIII has probably the worst intro to any FF. I am referring to the opening cinematic which instead of leading you into the setting and the story like in IV, VI, VII and XII for example, it plays more like a trailer for the overall game. By looking at it you'd think that the whole world hangs in the balance in the fight between Squall and Seifer, specially with the dramatic music they use, yet it is only a "training" session at school. The other scenes they include in it offer no context whatsoever, Rinoa and Edea figure in it for no reason at all considering that you don't meet either until much later. It is nice as a visual fest but as an opening to the game it really doesn't works.

Discuss or post yours :)

[Pike]

I don't understand the FFIX hype. I must be missing something because everywhere I go, people are obsessed with it. Here, 4chan, Something Awful, Twitter... it is like everyone's favorite. I thought it was relatively average but everyone else loves it so I guess I am missing something. Maybe it has just been too long since I played it.

Beyond that I feel like most opinions, even unpopular ones, are still well-represented. I think the FFTA series is better than the original, for example, but some people here actually agree with me! Same with my love of FF 2. There are a lot of different opinions here and it's pretty neat.

[Galuf]

I don't understand the FFIX hype. I must be missing something because everywhere I go, people are obsessed with it. Here, 4chan, Something Awful, Twitter... it is like everyone's favorite. I thought it was relatively average but everyone else loves it so I guess I am missing something. Maybe it has just been too long since I played it.

Beyond that I feel like most opinions, even unpopular ones, are still well-represented. I think the FFTA series is better than the original, for example, but some people here actually agree with me! Same with my love of FF 2. There are a lot of different opinions here and it's pretty neat.

aye im with you FF2 is awesome.

im probably going in here with the wrong idea but whatever.

i dont understand why some people only think FFV is good for comedy. i mean theres plenty of other stuff good about it that is better than other main series games. ( jobs)

[Mirage]

I don't understand the FFIX hype. I must be missing something because everywhere I go, people are obsessed with it. Here, 4chan, Something Awful, Twitter... it is like everyone's favorite. I thought it was relatively average but everyone else loves it so I guess I am missing something. Maybe it has just been too long since I played it.
Nah, it's just not all that good.

[Lazerface]

The hype around FFIII, the game was boring and stale when it came to the characters and job system but I'm seeing a lot of the game everywhere on the FF wiki and merchandising. FFIII wasn't the worst but it definitely wasn't the best.

[Fynn]

I think FFXII is the best numbered FF, and FFTactics Advance is the best written FF, period. Ivalice for life!

[Pumpkin]

I don't understand the FFIX hype. I must be missing something because everywhere I go, people are obsessed with it. Here, 4chan, Something Awful, Twitter... it is like everyone's favorite. I thought it was relatively average but everyone else loves it so I guess I am missing something. Maybe it has just been too long since I played it.

Beyond that I feel like most opinions, even unpopular ones, are still well-represented. I think the FFTA series is better than the original, for example, but some people here actually agree with me! Same with my love of FF 2. There are a lot of different opinions here and it's pretty neat.

I absolutely adore it, for reasons I will list eventually on my games list. It'll be like 3 pages long so beware :P

I find VII vastly overrated. I don't think its a bad game by any means but I've seen so much better come from Final Fantasy. I'll never understand the hype around Cid Highwind because having gone through abuse and seeing his verbal abuse of Shera was absolutely disgusting to me and him going "Oh she was right, my bads" doesn't make up for fucking anything. Unless they've proven he's made amends in the sequels, which I would need to see. I also find Aeris one of the worst characters, I find her very rude, and I wanted to punch her in the face in almost every scene

I thought X-2 was better than X and overall just an excellent game

[Pete for President]

I don't understand the FFIX hype. I must be missing something because everywhere I go, people are obsessed with it. Here, 4chan, Something Awful, Twitter... it is like everyone's favorite. I thought it was relatively average but everyone else loves it so I guess I am missing something. Maybe it has just been too long since I played it.

It's pretty good but it does have a lot of filler.

Sazh should have killed himself in XIII. It would have been such an epic plot twist.

[Madame Adequate]

I like how each game has tried new things, but I really wish they had revisited II's character advancement along the way, as they did with III's Job System evolution. I mean, III did it pretty well, but V polished it to near-perfection. So I reckon in a similar vein, another shot at II's style would have really been something. I still love II's advancement even though it's unbalanced and open to abuse.

[Laddy]

I agree that if a game like FFXII had used the II system to some extent it could be probably the single best game in the series, gameplay-wise.

My unpopular opinion is that Aerith was never really this "broken bird" archetype and the fact that she was practically canonized as a saint in later games made her untimely demise significantly less impactful as it robs her of the loads of spunk and personality she has.

[The Man]

The Compilation of FFVII should never have happened. Every new release they make in that universe takes away from a lot of what was good about the original game, which includes the sense of mystery and wonder of it. It's also worth noting how much less colourful the sequels are than the original game.

FFVII, while a good game, isn't as good as the hype makes it out to be. It's probably the fourth or fifth best game in the series.

[Ayen]

Final Fantasy is Dead (http://www.wired.com/2013/07/final-fantasy-is-dead/)
Final Fantasy is Still Dead (http://www.wired.com/2013/08/final-fantasy-is-still-dead/all/)

[Colonel Angus]

I like VII, a lot, but I don't see it as a top V FF game. XII, X, X-2, V & VIII are all better. VI & IX are probably better as well.

That being said, the difference between the best & the worst FF is minute. I could even make an argument for Mystic Quest as a decent, yet flawed, game.

[VeloZer0]

I view FF12 and FF13 as of equivalent quality.

[Fynn]

I like how each game has tried new things, but I really wish they had revisited II's character advancement along the way, as they did with III's Job System evolution. I mean, III did it pretty well, but V polished it to near-perfection. So I reckon in a similar vein, another shot at II's style would have really been something. I still love II's advancement even though it's unbalanced and open to abuse.

Bravely Default did it.

[Bubba]

I quite like Tidus.

[Wolf Kanno]

I like how each game has tried new things, but I really wish they had revisited II's character advancement along the way, as they did with III's Job System evolution. I mean, III did it pretty well, but V polished it to near-perfection. So I reckon in a similar vein, another shot at II's style would have really been something. I still love II's advancement even though it's unbalanced and open to abuse.

The main reason why FF never really followed up on it was because the SaGa franchise did instead. Makes sense, when you realize the mastermind behind II's advancement system went off to create the SaGa franchise for Square.

I think my only really unpopular opinion about the series is that FFX isn't that good, it was really mediocre and I felt it tried too hard to be some PS2 tech demo.

[Sephiroth]

Fans don't know what they are talking about.

And that is not just an opinion.

[Fynn]

I think FFX's story is weak, with lots of forced drama and characters written by someone who fails to comprehend basic human emotion.

[Pike]

lots of forced drama and characters written by someone who fails to comprehend basic human emotion.

My unpopular opinion is that most, if not all, FF games fall under this category. That's why I like the series, though! It gives the games a unique and fun charm.

[Loony BoB]

Final Fantasy games, generally speaking, have poor to average world plots.

[metagloria]

V is way better than IV and VI
VIII is way better than IX
X-2 is better than X
Lightning Returns actually kind of rules

and, repeated by request from another thread,

XIII is better than VI.

[Carl the Llama]

I find VII vastly overrated.


The Compilation of FFVII should never have happened.

FFVII, while a good game, isn't as good as the hype makes it out to be. It's probably the fourth or fifth best game in the series.

I thought we were talking about controversial opinions here lol, I have seen those opinions far and wide all across the internet :p

My controversial opinion is that Aerith is one of, if not the best and most well balanced fighters the series has seen. If you want her to be a fighter there is more then enough resources do make her so, and like wise with magic/summons.

[Pumpkin]

I agree she's awesome in a fight. Overall though I think she's a horrible little woman

[Fynn]

lots of forced drama and characters written by someone who fails to comprehend basic human emotion.

My unpopular opinion is that most, if not all, FF games fall under this category. That's why I like the series, though! It gives the games a unique and fun charm.

Even if that's the case (which is heavily debatable, IMO), X really does try to come off as serious and touching and fails spectacularly :monster:

One of the reasons why I think X-2 is much better is that it treats itself much less seriously. True, you get those sappy, cringe-worthy moments too, but you also get a minigame where you have to help a villain reach an orgasm. So yeah :monster:

[Loony BoB]

wait what =|

[Forsaken Lover]

Final Fantasy II was a good game.

Final Fantasy XII is one of, if not the, best FF games.

The voice-acting in Final Fantasy X isn't bad. Tidus in particular was perfect for his role.

Final Fantasy IV has the best soundtrack in the series.

[Pumpkin]

I actually loved Yuna's voice acting

[Fynn]

wait what =|

LeBlanc massage scene? "ooh, that's nice..." "OOOH! THERE!"

[Pike]

Final Fantasy II was a good game.

FFII was great. One of the best games in the series. One of my top three in fact.

[Mirage]

I can't think of a way to build Aeris to be as good a physical fighter as more or less anyone else in the game. She has low HP, doesn't do full damage from back row, has low strength, has no directly offensive limit breaks. Anything you can put on Aeris to make her a better fighter, you could instead put on anyone else and get an even better result.

I'm very interested in hearing how she can be made into a good fighter. If she's not going to use magic, you'd be better off with just about anyone else instead of her, which makes her a mage/support character, not a balanced all-purpose character.

[Karifean]

I consider V, VI, VIII, IX, X-2 and XII to be all on a very similar level of enjoyability.

[metagloria]

I actually loved Yuna's voice acting

I loved Yuna's voice acting...in X-2. In X, she was just a breathy, pitiful mess.

[Pike]

Well, I think most people know my controversial opinion, but here we go :greenie:

The only things I liked about FFXII were the Ivalice character design (bunny moogles! :love: ) and the music. I couldn't stand anything else. Characters and story were thoroughly forgettable, in fact I can't remember any of the details on them whatsoever. The combat system drove me up a wall. The entire world seemed muddy and dull. Whatever FFXII's character advancement grid thing was called (I forgot the name, much like I forgot everything else in that game) felt like an obnoxious and confusing sphere grid rip-off. I hated the entire game so much that it turned me off of the Final Fantasy series for many, many years, and I also left EoFF for many years (the idea was "Why hang out at a Final Fantasy site if Final Fantasy is terrible now?")

I don't know what everyone else saw in it that I didn't. I didn't even have the excuse of having been too young to understand it because I was in my mid-20s when it came out.

Sorry guys. :gator:

[Madame Adequate]

I like how each game has tried new things, but I really wish they had revisited II's character advancement along the way, as they did with III's Job System evolution. I mean, III did it pretty well, but V polished it to near-perfection. So I reckon in a similar vein, another shot at II's style would have really been something. I still love II's advancement even though it's unbalanced and open to abuse.

The main reason why FF never really followed up on it was because the SaGa franchise did instead. Makes sense, when you realize the mastermind behind II's advancement system went off to create the SaGa franchise for Square.

Yeah, sadly the SaGa franchise is hot dogshit :(

[Pumpkin]

I think VIII is better than VI, no contest

[Pike]

I don't remember enough of VIII to have an opinion on it. Same with IX really. Those two games blur together to me in a sort of post-VII, pre-X muddled mess.

[Madame Adequate]

Okay, time for ~:save:~opinions~:save:~

IX was and remains a clattering disappointment. It is not a bad game as such, but it is so utterly lacking in daring and imagination (in gameplay) that it winds up being tremendously uninteresting. It tries to capture the magic of the old pre-32 bit games, but it totally fails, both because it doesn't understand what it was that made them magical or that making a sincere attempt and falling short is much more commendable than playing it entirely safe and doing so competently. This is why I credit XII much higher than IX even though I think IX is a more solid game and I still don't like XII one bit. Much of the charm of the earlier games is that they always butted up against the limits of what they were trying to achieve, and succeeded anyway. IX plays it so safe in every respect except aesthetics that it can't even fail - it doesn't make the attempt in the first place.

Also, the characters I like - Freya, Quina, and Beatrix, mainly - are given very little screen time outside a couple of specific points, whilst ones I either don't care about - Vivi, Garnet - or those I actively dislike - Zidane, Eiko, every single villain - get a lot more. The only one who I both like and gets plenty of time is Steiner.

The villains are all shit. Every single one. When the old NES and SNES games were made, a villain who wanted to destroy everything just because he was a twat or couldn't handle some bit of news about their origins was good, but by the time IX rolled around things were a lot more sophisticated, and Sephiroth was probably the last villain who got away with that.

[Egami]

IX was and remains a clattering disappointment. It is not a bad game as such, but it is so utterly lacking in daring and imagination (in gameplay) that it winds up being tremendously uninteresting. It tries to capture the magic of the old pre-32 bit games, but it totally fails, both because it doesn't understand what it was that made them magical or that making a sincere attempt and falling short is much more commendable than playing it entirely safe and doing so competently.

Well put, couldn't agree more with this. I too find IX rather forgettable and while I don't think it is really a bad game, it is a FF title I never seem to have it in me to play again like i do with several other FF titles.

[Lazerface]

What i don't get was the overhype on FFVII. i liked the game but I honestly thought it was a bit overrated on the story. i liked the story but it was nothing new that i've seen. Feels like the typical best friend worst enemy story. In comparison to IV and VI it isn't the best between those three with VI being the best.

What i don't get is the love for FFIII, tough yeah. But it was bland, the only thing appealing about it was it's difficulty and gameplay. It's basically a beta FFV. And FFV was way better even if it's story was simple, it featured far better character development than anything FFIII could make, and it at least set the standards for Final Fantasy game difficulties not being too hard or too easy.

And lastly what I don't get is the hate between FFVI fans and FFVII fans. While FFVI had the best story, it's gameplay was a bit lacking it didn't do anything special compared to its predecessor, FFVII had better gameplay which I've covered. If anything I don't get the arguments and debate between the fans of the two games. Personally i liked FFVI better simply because of 3 things- Kefka, the story, and special abilities. I liked FFVII because of 5 things- The gameplay, Tifa (pffft obvious), this guy are sick, Sephiroth, and the graphics. Why do they argue till this day? They've been arguing since 1997 and i think they should just settle and not bother killing each other over it.

[Mirage]

I actually loved Yuna's voice acting

I loved Yuna's voice acting...in X-2. In X, she was just a breathy, pitiful mess.

yeah, idk how much of that was her fault or the director's fault

[Carl the Llama]

I can't think of a way to build Aeris to be as good a physical fighter as more or less anyone else in the game. She has low HP, doesn't do full damage from back row, has low strength, has no directly offensive limit breaks. Anything you can put on Aeris to make her a better fighter, you could instead put on anyone else and get an even better result.

I'm very interested in hearing how she can be made into a good fighter. If she's not going to use magic, you'd be better off with just about anyone else instead of her, which makes her a mage/support character, not a balanced all-purpose character.

First off you steal the Striking staff from Eligor in the train graveyard, it has 0=0 0 0 materia slots and an attack of 32 (completely unrivaled until you steal the Hardedge in the Shinra Tower which has the same attack) This weapon can also be bought in Gongaga, but you can replace it in the Gold Saucer with the Umbrella, which has an attack of 58, then, if you fancy a challenge on the demons gate, you can equip her with the princess guard and kill off 1 or 2 other characters and her attack power doubles or triples. As for low HP? Make her status Sadness and she takes 30% less damage, or give her the long range materia, or live dangerously and put her in fury status and give her the cover materia and abuse her Fury Brand limit, any way you look at it, Aerith enables an extra limit from Cloud and your second which is more then enough warrant her use even if you don't like her.

Any argument you can come up with as a reason to not use her can be countered by Fury Brand.

I should also mention that I assume you are talking about boss fights, because standard fights are over to quickly for there to be any risk or reason to use strategy.

[Snap Jumper]

I think my only really unpopular opinion about the series is that FFX isn't that good, it was really mediocre and I felt it tried too hard to be some PS2 tech demo.

I don't think it's mediocre, it's just plain bad. The lengthy, unskippable cutscenes completely ruin the flow of the game. The sphere grid is unnecessarily complicated. The characters are annoying, particularly Auron, who seems to think he knows everything and should tell everyone else what to do. Then there's Wakka, Tidus, and Lulu who aren't much better. Then there is the need to rotate everyone into a battle to get everyone experience. The final boss is really difficult, which, by itself, isn't a bad thing, but when it's coupled with having to go through getting those 10 crystals every time you want to try fighting it again, it gets really annoying. And that's just some of the reasons why, to me, FFX is, by far, the worst of the numbered series.

[Bolivar]

I like what Pike said on the first page about there not really being any unpopular Final Fantasy opinions, as the fanbase is pretty diverse. For example, I always assumed I was the only person on the planet who actually enjoyed FFV more than FFVI but it turns out that's actually a pretty common theme among people who played both games as adults.

I think has time has passed, FFVIII really deserves to be at the upper echelon of the series. I think it earned some credit for running with the FFVII formula and taking some big risks with it, even if not all of them paid off at the time. I know we were all teenagers and at that age, romance stories were gross but I think it was pretty ballsy for them to make a story about Squall coming out of his shell and Rinoa coming to terms with the real world, and them helping each other to do so together. The pre-rendered backgrounds and music have both aged pretty well, too.

Lastly, while I agree FFVIII is easy to break, I don't think it breaks itself. I play the game just running through the story, drawing only a little here and there, and spend most of my early time with GFs unlocking their stat bonuses, not the refinement abilities. I know some people claim that you still accumulate enough high level spells early on to break the game but I've played it this way several times and I really think they are exaggerating.

[Forsaken Lover]

You don't have to break FFVIII to make it easy. I played a Pseudo-Class Challenge Run, the only challenge run I've ever done in an RPG, where Squall was a Warrior (only could Junction to HP, Str and Def) while the other two were mages (only can junction to Mag and Spr) with one being for Attack Spells and the other a mix of Status Spells and Healing.

The game was still boring and I dropped it because there was no challenge in my challenge run. My first and only challenge run and I had to abandon it because it was too easy. I had even increased all my levels to 100 to make sure everything was as strong as it could be, and the game was still no fun.

I had to go out and find a mod to make it a challenge. Now, granted, with this mod, Ultimecia is my favorite FF boss. Over an hour struggle taking down 2,000,000 HP was very awesome.

But this just shows what we all know about FFVIII all along. It had all the tools for the job and yet it couldn't get that job done. The Junction System had potential but they screwed it up. The characters had potential but they screwed them up. The world had potential but they screwed it up.

FFVIII is not completely devoid of merits but, where I'm at, it is the worst FF by far. FFXIII had a better cast and the only reason I haven't replayed it more than VIII is because I hate XIII's gameplay.

[Egami]

Then there is the need to rotate everyone into a battle to get everyone experience.

While this could have been handled better it is certainly preferable than how, for example, in VI only your current party earns experience and if you want to level up other characters you must go inside the airship, talk to one of the characters, change your team and then start fighting with them while the previous characters you were using stop gaining experience.



The final boss is really difficult, which, by itself, isn't a bad thing, but when it's coupled with having to go through getting those 10 crystals every time you want to try fighting it again, it gets really annoying.

True, especially when after that you also have to see a rather long cutscene you can't skip before the actual fight starts. There also doesn't seems to be any rational justification as to why you must collect these crystals.

Honestly, I've always felt that the part after you land on Sin would have been better without so much bloat, specially without that last battle with Seymour which I think was superflous at that point in the game. After you defeat Yunalesca and literally blow a hole in Sin and land on it, all that should have remained is Tidus meeting Jecht and the final battle and then of course the part with the Aeons and Yu-Yeon. Everything else they added before that, that whole last dungeon, was just bloat the game would have been better off without.

[Del Murder]

Unpopular opinions at EoFF:

FFVI and VII are the best two games.
FFII and XIII are the worst two.

[Ayen]

Unpopular opinions at EoFF:

FFVI and VII are the best two games.
FFII and XIII are the worst two.

EoFF is weird.

[metagloria]

I forgot one of mine!

The golden era of FF was not the SNES era, nor the PS1 era...it was the PS2 era.

[Mirage]

I can't think of a way to build Aeris to be as good a physical fighter as more or less anyone else in the game. She has low HP, doesn't do full damage from back row, has low strength, has no directly offensive limit breaks. Anything you can put on Aeris to make her a better fighter, you could instead put on anyone else and get an even better result.

I'm very interested in hearing how she can be made into a good fighter. If she's not going to use magic, you'd be better off with just about anyone else instead of her, which makes her a mage/support character, not a balanced all-purpose character.

First off you steal the Striking staff from Eligor in the train graveyard, it has 0=0 0 0 materia slots and an attack of 32 (completely unrivaled until you steal the Hardedge in the Shinra Tower which has the same attack) This weapon can also be bought in Gongaga, but you can replace it in the Gold Saucer with the Umbrella, which has an attack of 58, then, if you fancy a challenge on the demons gate, you can equip her with the princess guard and kill off 1 or 2 other characters and her attack power doubles or triples. As for low HP? Make her status Sadness and she takes 30% less damage, or give her the long range materia, or live dangerously and put her in fury status and give her the cover materia and abuse her Fury Brand limit, any way you look at it, Aerith enables an extra limit from Cloud and your second which is more then enough warrant her use even if you don't like her.

Any argument you can come up with as a reason to not use her can be countered by Fury Brand.

I should also mention that I assume you are talking about boss fights, because standard fights are over to quickly for there to be any risk or reason to use strategy.

And if you give someone else Sadness, they'll take 30% less damage as well. And if you give someone else long range, they'll have better survivability as well. Fury brand is probably the only viable way of using her for increased damage out, and that still puts her firmly in the "support" category.

Why are you thinking I'm looking for reasons not to use her? I'm just saying she's not a good choice for a fighter, but best as a support/mage character

[Carl the Llama]

And if you give someone else Sadness, they'll take 30% less damage as well. And if you give someone else long range, they'll have better survivability as well. Fury brand is probably the only viable way of using her for increased damage out, and that still puts her firmly in the "support" category.

I was giving you examples to counter the things you saw as a weakness, her weaponry puts her ahead of a great number of people and her Princess Guard makes her very powerful, in a standard fight the fight is over before you even need to think, she gets the Striking Staff really early, its the first piece of equipment you can steal in the game. HP makes no difference, because fighting standard enemies is over before you even need to think about it.

I'm not saying you should only use her this way, but it IS possible, combine that with her enabling an extra limit for your 2 other people and that makes her (in my opinion) one of, if not the most balanced characters in the series.

[Forsaken Lover]

Snow and Hope were the best characters in FFXIII.

[Bolivar]

The golden era of FF was not the SNES era, nor the PS1 era...it was the PS2 era.

Ok, this is getting close

[Sephiroth]

Controversal opinion:

Final Fantasy XIII-2 paradoxes do not make sense. It is not logical that fixing something that has already happened, makes everything alright. That is how causality works. You would destroy your reason to change something and also not have changed anything but it did exist. Just like the other thing also existed before. Which is why paradoxes do not actually exist.

Good thing that twitch users are so intelligent that they do not get that.

[Egami]

This one may ruffle some chocobo feathers but...

V is better than IV and VI, it is the best FF of the SNES era. To wit...

- It has a warmer and more relatable cast.
- It has a more consistent and better told story.
- It has the best battle system.
- It has the most interesting and fun to explore world.
- It has the best villian.
- It has the best secondary villian (Gilgamesh).
- It has the best last dungeon.
- It has the best deaths of main and secondary characters.

Hmmm, yeah...wouldn't mind elaborating on the above points, of course.

[Ayen]

It has the best villian.

I'm genuinely interested in hearing how you think the villain is better than Golbez and Kefka.

[Egami]

I'm genuinely interested in hearing how you think the villain is better than Golbez and Kefka.

I knew that one in particular would the most controversial ;), but sure thing...

GOLBEZ
I'd say he isn't the villain but was just being mind controlled by Zemus all along. His actions also don't really have much of an impact either, besides bombing Damcyan (a place you hadn't visited yet full of people you hadn't met) and mind controlling Kain to lead him to backstab the party (all of which is just Zemus acting through him) he is just collecting crystals but the fact that he steals the crystals doesn't really seems to have much of an impact on the world as we see in V where the wind, fire and the like stop when ExDeath makes the crystals shatter. Because of this you don't really feel the sense of threat and urgency that you get with ExDeath as he is carrying out his plans. IV overall also has a problem with too many fake deaths, which ends up taking away from the impact of Golbez (Zemus) actions.

You also never get a proper fight with him, the first time you meet him and you think a battle will ensue, you become an spectator as Tellah takes over (without you being able to control him like you do Galuf in his confrontation with ExDeath) and does his Meteo and dies. When you encounter him again, it is another scripted fight where Rydia joins and he "dies" after the first hit or so. The last time when you think a real fight will ensue, when you meet him within the Giant Of Babil, FuSoYa takes over and "wakes" him up and he is suddenly a good guy who was just being controlled by Zemus. It was very anticlimactic the way he was handled in the game.

Why ExDeath is better: He is his own person, no ad hoc villain is introduced at the end which controls him that cheapens things up. He has a more interesting and unique concept and background (a tree full of evil spirits that gained consciousness). His goal/motive is more clear and better fleshed out, not to mention that he actually accomplishes it. You also get to fight him properly and get the satisfaction of defeating him. His actions had a much more powerful impact on the world and the party: swallows different parts of the world into the void including Castle Tycoon and Bartz home town, Galuf and the rest of the Warriors of Dawn die because of him as does Lena and Faris' father (King Tycoon); all of which makes things very personal for the party and so when you finally defeat him it is very rewarding.

KEFKA
His motives are poorly fleshed out and rather ambiguous. In the WoB he never really feels like the villain but rather just a nutty guy who does a lot of bad stuff for no real reason. His betrayal of the Emperor right after demanding that Celes show her loyalty to the empire and after working in tandem in such an elaborate way with the Emperor came basically out of nowhere. As far his other actions goes, his poisoning of Doma really didn't made much of an impact to me as I hadn't met any of these people (Cyan included) before then and the same goes for him killing General Leo. While Leo was portrayed as a nice and noble man, the game didn't let me spend enough time with him to make me care (like V does with Galuf). So Kefka killing him didn't feel as meaningful.

While half way through the game he "destroys" the world and ends up becoming a god of sorts and the source of magic (a transition which isn't elaborated upon); you don't see him at all after that and he doesn't really do anything in the WoR but rather becomes a boss waiting for you at the end of a dungeon for what amounts to more than half of the game. Also for someone who is so hell bent on destroying everything and who supposedly casts down the Light of Judgement on those who dare oppose him, he offers no opposition to the party in the WoR as you go on your journey to recruit your friends and get an airship. You then land in his tower without a single obstacle getting in your way (contrast with how things flow when you decide to go to the Floating Continent). So he is literally doing nothing during all this time and when you finally confront him he goes on about how he will destroy everything which makes you wonder, if he is so powerful, why hasn't he done so already and why practically all the towns and locations in the WoR are in such rather nice shape? Because of this, as is the case with Golbez, you don't really feel the sense of threat and urgency with Kefka that you get with ExDeath as he is carrying out his plans.

Why ExDeath is better: Many of the things I said above on Golbez applies here as well. Unlike Kefka who is doing nothing during the WoR, while he is busy trying to accomplish his goal of controlling the void in the third world, ExDeath sends his minions to hinder the party from getting the sealed weapons and sucks into the void several locations along the way. When you confront him at the end and he demonstrates his power just like Kefka does, he vanishes actual places and people into the void increasing the tension as opposed to Kefka who just hits water and some land with his Light of Judgement. Not only that but he actually sucks the whole party itself into the void; who are only saved thanks to the Warriors of Dawn. ExDeath also feels far more imposing and in control of things during the whole game than Kefka and his interactions with the party are not only more numerous than Kefka's but also better done. And if we are going the humour route, ExDeath tops the clown with his fight against Guido (a turtle!) and his thrashing of Gilgamesh.

[Ayen]

I'm genuinely interested in hearing how you think the villain is better than Golbez and Kefka.

I knew that one in particular would the most controversial ;), but sure thing...

It was the most interesting.


His goal/motive is more clear and better fleshed out, not to mention that he actually accomplishes it.

Wait, what? How come Kefka is always the one cited as the villain who actually accomplished his goal?

Golbez did get shafted in FFIV. Shame too since I thought he had some good buildup when first introduced.

[Electroshock Therapy]

As much as I love the "serious" and more somber FF titles, the perkiness of X-2 was a welcome change. I also think it's funny that it goes against the usual sequel trope of making things more "epic" and "darker."

[Egami]

Wait, what? How come Kefka is always the one cited as the villain who actually accomplished his goal?

Well, ExDeath also accomplished very much what he set out to do: he manages to get all the four seals that were holding him broken, he then says that he will bring the world to it's original state, that is with both worlds merged as one, which he does; and then he says he will obtain the power of the void, which he also does.



Golbez did get shafted in FFIV. Shame too since I thought he had some good buildup when first introduced.

Indeed, it was rather disappointing how the character was handled.

[WildRaubtier]

It has the best villian.

I'm genuinely interested in hearing how you think the villain is better than Golbez and Kefka.

He's a tree that hated people so much he turned into a wizard.

Fuck you if you don't think that's excellent.

[Sephiroth]

It has the best villian.

I'm genuinely interested in hearing how you think the villain is better than Golbez and Kefka.

He's a tree that hated people so much he turned into a wizard.

smurf you if you don't think that's excellent.

You know that is not how he was born?

[WildRaubtier]

yes its pretty obvious things arent born in the middle of their lives

[Sephiroth]

yes its pretty obvious things arent born in the middle of their lives

That was no question about literal birth but simply about the fact of soul possessing something and transforming, meaning he himself is not really the tree. People focus too much on the tree thing just because it was the host but in the first place X-Death himself is the fusion of demonic souls. Which is what Neo X-Death, his true being is - even if he was controlled by the void in the end. I don't know about you but mainly I am the self and the human comes afterwards as an outer shell. And in X-Death's case even that demonic chimera alone has a body or at least an appearance as demon.

Do you know Naraku from Inu Yasha? That is ta similiar, partly the exact case. Naraku is a demon that is the result of a demon chimera which fused with one single body, the body of bandit Onigumo and formed a new individual being. The one who functioned as a host in a way still existed - it would also not have been very useful if he would have vanished - but at first the new individual being that was known as Naraku was born. So even if X-Death's main soul was that of the tree he now has fused with many other souls. And normally - in Naraku's case for some reason it was not the case but whatever - the actual fusion creates the new being and makes the other individual fade away. Just like Gogeta and Vegetto are not Goku and Vegeta. There is also another way of fusing. A fusion that is more an absorption and actually makes your own self not fade but gives you control over whatever you have fused with. That is for example what Xehanort in Kingdom Hearts did (and maybe Naraku and Onigumo to an extent, one body-wose and the other heart-wise).

Anyway - what I did want to say: Don't forget the souls. Those are the original evil beings that were the roots of X-Death. Roots - ha, ha, ha. Now if hat wasn't a good one.

[Mirage]

oh is that what you meant

[WildRaubtier]

ok like the best thing about V is that it doesnt invite pedantry, please dont ruin that for everyone

[Sephiroth]

ok like the best thing about V is that it doesnt invite pedantry, please dont ruin that for everyone


Everything that follows an explanation and is bound at least one bit to logic, which even video games are shown by the authors reasoning, invites to pendatry. That is why discussions exist so please don't act as if I am the one ruining anything just because I am pointing out something. There will always be the "okay but is is fiction" as well as the "they have tried to built it with logical elements and that follows this consistency or not" side,

[Loony BoB]

Seph, he was totes a tree.

[Mirage]

It's ok to be a tree too. We're not discriminating against trees here.

[WildRaubtier]

ok like the best thing about V is that it doesnt invite pedantry, please dont ruin that for everyone


Everything that follows an explanation and is bound at least one bit to logic, which even video games are shown by the authors reasoning, invites to pendatry. That is why discussions exist so please don't act as if I am the one ruining anything just because I am pointing out something. There will always be the "okay but is is fiction" as well as the "they have tried to built it with logical elements and that follows this consistency or not" side,

it isnt about "okay but this is fiction" its about "okay but even ffv doesnt give a shit about its own story and neither should you"

[escobert]

I think the FFTA series is better than the original, for example


u cray cray gurl!



I agree with the FFIX stuff. and it's the same with 6 for me. I can't get into it. Everyone loves it so much.

X sucks and everyone should know that. it's friggen horrible and you'll never convince me otherwise.

[Ayen]

X sucks and everyone should know that. it's friggen horrible and you'll never convince me otherwise.

You misspelled XIII. Oh, wait, this is "controversial opinions." Carry on.

[escobert]

X sucks and everyone should know that. it's friggen horrible and you'll never convince me otherwise.

You misspelled XIII. Oh, wait, this is "controversial opinions." Carry on.

Never played XIII so I have no idea! :p I only played 12 because of it's Tactics connections. After X I really didn't care much for new Square games anymore.

[theundeadhero]

Blue magic is stupid and not worth the time to collect it.

[Mirage]

yeah man, the 2 minutes needed to get white wind and big guard is way too much.

[Forsaken Lover]

It depends on the game. Some BM is dumber to get than others.

My Newest Opinion:
All FF games are equally inferior to Xenogears.

That counts, right?

[Madame Adequate]

Blue magic is stupid and not worth the time to collect it.

Varies wildly in different games. In VII there's a lot of truly brilliant stuff in Enemy Skills. In V or VI or VIII? Don't fucking bother, huge waste of time. Quina's not great either but you should be eating everything on principle so it kind of evens out.

[Bolivar]

We've been through this, FL :roll2

[theundeadhero]

In FFV there's far better classes to use than waste a character or ability slot on very situation magic.
In FFVI Strago is a weak character, where the party slot is better used by someone with actual abilities, and the game is too easy to care about an extra healing or defensive magic.
In FFVII it could be ok, but the slot is better utilized by more useful materia. Getting the skills is pure vanity because you like them.
In FFIX Quina is only mandatory in one part of the game so hoping to get an enemy low enough to eat without killing it is a huge time sink with little return.
In FFX Kimahri is weak and only mandatory for a single fight, and the difficulty scales to how often you've used him previously. It's better to not ever use him so the others become stronger, faster.

I don't use white wind or might guard in any game. It might be nice for two or three fights in FFX but nowhere near important.

[Bolivar]

There are a few useful spells in FFVI and Strago has good stats anyway so why not have another great caster?

You can have plenty of open slots in FFVII, so it's not really a waste to use E.Skill. I also like to use it on non-magic heroes, since it won't bring down their HP/Atk, unlike Green material. A lot of spells like Flame Thrower and Trine are typically more powerful than the magic you have at that point in the game.

Quina again has great stats, very tanky and can have decent attack. There might be only a few standout spells to get but it's nice to have versatility in your party, makes the game more interesting.

Kimahri won't drop off too far if you pick a path for him and stick with it, although sure, he won't scale as well as the character naturally on that path.

[Mirage]

Controversial opinions about monolith games: All of them are complete crap except Xenoblade.

[Forsaken Lover]

Seems I need to go and make my Xenosaga Topic of 2015 now