Active Time Report 6.0 Stella's Fate Revealed!

[Tyson]

She's dead..........well kinda. Tabata confirmed she has been turned into Luna. Like alot of us suspected.

The other story related change due to the crossover between Versus and FFXV is the whole party scene and the attack on the city gameplay segment with Noctis has been removed. The city now gets attacked after the guys have left the city (which explains the latest trailers)

The 2.0 patch for Episode Duscae will be released on June 9th at 8:00 PDT.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u3jd4IyMso

[Pumpkin]

What, nooooooo :(

[Psychotic]

I have never understood the weird and obsessive fascination with "Stella" and why people are so precious about her when she is still in the game and not dead at all. She only appeared in what, two minutes of trailer footage under the name Stella? They just changed her name and outfit. That's it! And what's more, it's an improvement because Lunafreya is a nicer name than Stella.

I was baffled when after Duscae I said it was obvious they'd replaced her with Luna and a couple of people in the thread here jumped on it and insisted she was still knocking about and they were sisters. Hell, what am I even talking about, she wasn't replaced. Just renamed. That character everybody seems to love still exists.

[Pumpkin]

I would have liked to see another female character :(

I'm allowed to have my feelings Psy :colbert:

[Loony BoB]

I'm saddened because I liked the kind of attitude/vibe from Stella's scenes. Hopefully we see more of Luna soon.

Personally I never liked the name 'Luna', which is perhaps weird considering the first part of my username is pretty similar.

Seems like they took out a really awesome looking scene in exchange for a less awesome one, though, but tbh once the game is finally out I won't be dwelling on all this kind of stuff.

[Psychotic]

There were like two minutes of scenes. Not nearly enough to get a feel for a character. Especially when they were all in Japanese!

Good riddance. :colbert:

[Loony BoB]

Two minutes of scenes is a lot for a non-playable character out of what we've seen. Certainly more than the, what, three seconds we've seen of Luna?

Stella was all badass and did things. Luna sits and has a blank expression. This is all we have from the scenes over the course of years don't you take that away from us!

[Psychotic]

Luna is going to do those same things because they are the same person.

[Shauna]

I'm with Psy on this one.

[Loony BoB]

Different name. Different symbol. Different look. Different getup. Different attitude. They're only the "same person" on a technicality. It's like saying "Oh, we replaced Wakka with Barret, they're the same person though." We can only have an attachment to characters based on what we see, and so far, the two of them have appeared to be markedly different.

Again, in time, I'm sure this will be forgotten by many and most, or just be seen as a "remember when" kind of thing. But at the moment we need to see a lot more Luna before people will forget about Stella.

EDIT: Although we can't be sure Luna will do those same things considering they have taken out key parts of the scene. It's possible that general badassery won't be seen with Luna.

EDITRA: To drive the point home, quoting from a reddit summary of this ATR...


Stella was cut because the team had difficulty integrating her role into the game. Instead we have Luna now, who has a different role than Stella used to have. All the other characters presented so far (e.g. the black-haired woman) are still in the game.

[Psychotic]

You don't know the attitudes are different because we've barely seen anything of her and you're just making assumptions. It's just a cosmetic change, which, if you'll note, all of the main characters have had since the Versus days, some of them arguably more extreme than the changes to Lunafreya. Nobody is mourning the loss of Prompto's white wifebeater or darker and neater hair (http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611094713/finalfantasy/images/e/e7/Prince_gang.JPG), are they?

I don't really get your Wakka and Barret analogy at all given that they are actually different characters and what's more, we've actually seen plenty of them to know what they're like and that they're totally different characters. If you want a better analogy, it's like seeing two minutes of you as Daniel on a hike up a hill and then seeing a minute of Loony BoB, EoFF admin, doing some database queries and being all "well that Loony BoB guy sure is boring compared to Daniel!" when you are the same exact person.

[Loony BoB]

See my EDITRA. :p Stella != Luna. Stella has been removed and Luna has been added. If it were not for the fact they are both girls and one popped out while the other popped in, I don't think anyone would be saying they are the same character. But you seem to be more annoyed at people getting upset over Stella's departure than people are about Stella's departure based on this thread. xD But yeah, read the words Tabata stated - they are not the same character.

Also note that I've repeatedly stated that I think once we see more of Luna we'll forget about Stella, but at this moment in time we have indeed lost one of the very few non-playable characters that we had any kind of personality given to. So let's just wait for more information on Luna so we can move on!

EDIT: Alternative wording of the pre-mentioned quote, according to another reddit thing (I can't watch the whole video at work)...

We decided not to include Stella in FF XV. Instead, we have a new heroine named Luna, who has a different role within the story.

[Freya]

Oh sweet. Freya is a cool name again!

[Fox]

Sad about Stella. T_T

Hopefully Luna will be great and we will all love her. But I'm disappointed that this character I was looking forward to won't be there any more. It's easy to argue that I shouldn't be disappointed because I didn't know the character, but it's precisely because I didn't know the character that I am disappointed. I wanted to know more about Stella! I wanted to see her personality, to experience her story. And I've been looking forward to doing that for 9 years.

Now I will never be able to do that. Sure, I can start getting interested and excited about Luna now, and I will for sure. But for right now, until I actually see a bit more of Luna... I will miss Stella. I will miss the character I was excited to discover.

[Formalhaut]

People place a lot of of personality and attachment to Stella because for many years, she was one of the few things we knew about Versus/FFXV. There really was nothing much to go on back then. I'm sure Lunafreya will be great as well, but I can see why people would be put out of place by the change. I will be intrigued as to further details about how her role will "change". I sort of got a friendly, but determined vibe from Stella.

Also, just the name. Lunafreya just looks awkward. Stella Nox Fleuret sounds... like diamonds.

[Fynn]

It was still kinda weird that they were all so hush-hush about it. Up to this point, whenever someone asked about Stella, the only reply we ever got was "hmm, what indeed?", so it really isn't strange that people started making up theories.

[FFFFsephychibi]

I could care less about the stella-luna switch. I just want to play the damn game at this point. But it sucks we were lead on to think stella still existed and the plot wasn't changed when it really was.

I also think the updates to Duscae 2.0 look great. June 9th cant come soon enough.

[Fox]

It was still kinda weird that they were all so hush-hush about it. Up to this point, whenever someone asked about Stella, the only reply we ever got was "hmm, what indeed?", so it really isn't strange that people started making up theories.

Ah yeah, it's never a good idea to let people speculate on stuff you know is going to disappoint them. We have the same problem where I work; there's some stuff I'm just not allowed to talk about because it will disappoint people and thus be "bad press". But then they speculate that we have some kinda awesome surprise and are just even more disappointed when eventually we're like "No no, this just sucks".

It's that same feeling as when somebody puts out teasers that seem to be indicating the return of BELOVED FRANCHISE. So all the press gets everyone hyped up about "The teased return of BELOVED FRANCHISE!" And then they say "We are proud to announce... the BELOVED FRANCHISE MOBILE PORT!" That upsets everyone. The moral of the story is don't dash people's hopes and dreams needlessly.

[Sephiroth]

How I remember the thread in which I said she is the same person and if not at least a close relative.

[Shorty]

Looks like they're ditching on Stella, (http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/06/04/final-fantasy-xvs-story-has-been-changed-from-final-fantasy-versus-xiii-heres-how/) among making other changes.

http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/9687fdb1-002c-4316-8ada-75ed4c4628e0/8b40c863-a7f4-4e03-850e-08e002f9ff93.gif

Even less inclination for me to play this game now! Full on boys club.

discuss, etc

[DMKA]

the whole party scene and the attack on the city gameplay segment with Noctis has been removed.

I'm far more upset about this than I am about Stella being gone. That all looked so well done and felt like it was going to be amazing to play. :( But Stella suddenly being gone feels like a really sloppy half baked decision seeing as in the FFXV announcement trailer she's still apparently there, still talking to Noctis, and we still see her at the end.

This pretty much confirms what I've been trying to tell people for the last year though; Final Fantasy XV is not Final Fantasy Versus XIII by a different name; Final Fantasy Versus XIII was cancelled, XV is an entirely different game.

I'm still excited for FFXV but it really makes me sad because when I go back and watch those Versus XIII trailers (particularly the 2011 trailer) I see a game that looked so awesomely promising, and like something I really wanted to play, that I shall never get to.

There's already a thread about this at the top of the forum.

And yeah, if you're so sexist that you can't stand to play as a party of gendered characters different from your own then you should probably find something more fitting to your taste.

[Vyk]

Saw this on Facebook. Fortunately I didn't form any weird attachments to any previous characters or situations. But it's still a little bit of a bummer. I don't think it will dissuade me from the game. Ironically enough the demo may have, but we'll see how demo 2.0 goes and if I end up having to fight an onslaught of 400 enemies over the course of the night who keep respawning faster than I can kill

[Shorty]

There's already a thread about this at the top of the forum.

And yeah, if you're so sexist that you can't stand to play as a party of gendered characters different from your own then you should probably find something more fitting to your taste.

Whoops, mods feel free to merge!

Calling me sexist because I don't want to play a game that doesn't feature any female lead characters isn't accurate. I'd prefer more diversity in my games and more featuring of women. So yeah, it clearly doesn't seem to be for me.

[Night Fury]

And yeah, if you're so sexist that you can't stand to play as a party of gendered characters different from your own then you should probably find something more fitting to your taste.

Excuse me? It's sexist for not wanting to play a game that has very few female characters? I think you need to choose your words a little better, it's not sexist at all. Get your knickers out of a twist. So effing rude.

[Jinx]

And yeah, if you're so sexist that you can't stand to play as a party of gendered characters different from your own then you should probably find something more fitting to your taste.

Excuse me? It's sexist for not wanting to play a game that has very few female characters? I think you need to choose your words a little better, it's not sexist at all. Get your knickers out of a twist. So effing rude.

God forbid a woman want to play a game where there's representation of her gender and a character that she can identify with. How sexist!

[Night Fury]

I think that it's okay for me, as a woman, to feel let down by Final Fantasy for this move. Final Fantasy is always a series that I feel has represented women pretty well. Now they've just cut out playable females in this game? Shite. And don't give me the "YEAH BUT FFX-2" NO. There was a TONNE of dude characters in that game, and in the HD remake you can even get the dudes in your party.

In 15 we have Luna and Sexualised-Cidney. I think it's totally fine if I don't want to play this game, it doesn't make me sexist in the least.

[Jinx]

Definitely!

I think it's pretty normal for players to have an "avatar" in Final Fantasy, even if they don't directly get to choose what that character does or looks like. I mean, any media, really. That's not to say that a female can't identify with a male character more (or vice versa), but I think generally people identify most with characters of their gender. So it's disappointing. When I first heard that FFXV would have no playable female characters, I decided I would not be purchasing the game. I've heard a lot of "Well, it probably works better for the story!" and that might be true, but it's probably not going to be a story I enjoy.

And yeah, bringing up FFX-2 is dumb if only for the imbalance of amount of male vs. female characters in this series. The 3-Female Rule.

[Colonel Angus]

I'm sure there have been characters cut from nearly every FF game from the start that we just don't know of.

They probably have a very good reason as to why Versus was cancelled, so I wouldn't even worry about that. It's not like XIII (or any of the others) needed yet a 4th sequel anyway. It'd be interesting if they let us know the whole story as to why it was scrapped, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Freya]

This pretty much confirms what I've been trying to tell people for the last year though; Final Fantasy XV is not Final Fantasy Versus XIII by a different name; Final Fantasy Versus XIII was cancelled, XV is an entirely different game.

I'm still excited for FFXV but it really makes me sad because when I go back and watch those Versus XIII trailers (particularly the 2011 trailer) I see a game that looked so awesomely promising, and like something I really wanted to play, that I shall never get to.
Yeah basically that. IT just shows that it really is a different game. And that says something that there wasn't even that much that was even done in the like decade long development that a new crew could come in and change a whole bunch of stuff.

[Vyk]

Yeah. As a dude. I prefer inclusion. I am the privileged gender in this regard, so it hasn't completely turned me off (or rather, turned me away, as it is doing with women), but it is definitely a mark against it. Being pro-inclusion is about as far from sexism as you can get, though

If people were choosing not to play it because it wasn't a cast full of females instead. Then that might be a little sexist. But all anyone is asking for is one competent female character represented in the main cast. Preferably as a playable character. But I think some would even concede if it's just a super prominent role. But there's no room for women here. Kinda sad, but hopefully XVI will fix it

Edit: As an aside, I'm guessing DMKA was being facetious or sarcastic or something. I may be wrong though. But I'm not ready to mob just yet

[Ayen]

http://i58.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/v33prl.jpg

[Colonel Angus]

64594

Hajime Tabata discussed in an Active Time Report stream that the 2.0 patch for the Episode Duscae demo of Final Fantasy XV would be released on June 9th, 2015. The patch would add improvements to the demo, as well as new features.

As for the full game itself, much more has been brought to light. Stella, one of the female characters featured in an early demo of the game, is in fact Luna, who was introduced more recently. There has been great speculation on whether Luna and Stella were sisters, the same women with different identities, or if Stella got scrapped. It turns out, the later is in fact correct.

Other changes to the game involve major sequences. Tabata admitted that the final version of Final Fantasy XV will be a completely different game than it's original incarnation, Versus.

The video of Active Time Report is below. You can also join in the discussion already happening in our forum by clicking here. (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/162973-Active-Time-Report-6-0-Stella-s-Fate-Revealed!)

6u3jd4IyMso

[Wolf Kanno]

I can't wait to see the Ultimania for this game, as I bet it will have a section with Nomura where he explains what Versus XIII was going to be like. It will be titled, "This is how awesome this game would have been if I wasn't lazy and actually made the game when I lied to you that I was actually working on it not just doodling on napkins while snuffing blow."

Despite all that, none of this bothers me. Stella looked interesting but I'm willing to give her new witness protection variant "Luna" a chance. Not surprised that this game has shifted so much that it's basically a new concept, guess Kotaku was right when they spread that rumor that Versus XIII was cancelled a few years ago.

[Tyson]

People are also forgetting about the dragoon girl! (Don't think shes got a name yet) Tabata explained she's still in the game. Even tho the sequence of her in the city has been cut.

I know she probably won't be playable......still a strong female character tho!

[Del Murder]

I think it is good that he is making it his own rather than try to fit to what was supposed to be Versus. But I still wish we had gotten the original Versus and then use all these new concepts for a completely new FFXV.

[Psychotic]

I don't get this "I'm not playing this now because there's no female characters!" when there's exactly the same amount of female characters as there's always been, just different ones.

I don't get it anyway, actually. I'm going to bring FFX-2 into it whether people like that or not, but not as a "it balances it out and therefore that makes it okay" but from personal perspective. I loved FFX-2 even though there was no male avatar for me. It wasn't even an issue, I didn't think twice about it, and you know what? I had a blast.

Don't get me wrong, diversity is always a positive and it's good to have someone similar to yourself to relate to, but having it as a dealbreaker is just strange to me. I mean if you desperately need a protagonist of the same gender that's your prerogative, I just think that must be a miserable way to live life. "Can't be reading Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit!" or "Portal? Nah, no dudes, sorry, I'm out". That's just outright weird to me.

[Loony BoB]

I would probably understand it more if it wasn't for Square's pretty good history with gender equality and the fact that of the NPCs we've seen, it's been a pretty even mix. While we've only seen two notable NPCs that are female, we haven't seen a huge amount of notable male NPCs, either. Cut the main party out (the reasons for them being all male have been given), you're left with the following named & notable NPCs confirmed in the game...

Males: Regis, Cor, Idola
Females: Lunafreya, Cindy

I like having female characters in my games, but I'm not feeling this is some great injustice at this point.

[Pumpkin]

I still plan to play the game I just personally prefer female characters so I was hoping they'd added one instead of just replacing one

[Sephex]

I think it is good that he is making it his own rather than try to fit to what was supposed to be Versus. But I still wish we had gotten the original Versus and then use all these new concepts for a completely new FFXV.

It would have been nice to see how FFXV would have turned out in 2032.

[Aulayna]

My main concern is that Luna seems pretty boring from what we've seen of her so far.

Stella we saw her sassing Noctis at the (now scrapped) party in Insomnia, and subsequently also saw the two of them at odds about to engage in a sword duel.

Luna, well we've seen a painting of her walking out of the ruins of Insomnia. The only other thing we've seen of her is her sitting at a table and the quote "Luna has something for you."

I really hope that they haven't changed Stella, from what appeared to be a fairly strong female character, to Luna - who seems to be bordering on a damsel in distress that we'll have to save. It'd kinda be another step backwards for the series after Cindy.

Maybe the black haired woman and the Dragoon lady will make up for a rather lackluster female showing so far in this title.

On a personal note, I much preferred the name Stella over Lunafreya. Lunafreya sounds like an online screen name or some Mary Sue fanfic character ><

Will see how I feel having played the game, if it's ever released.

[Fynn]

Kinda agree. Stella was said to have the same power as Boctis and that was one of the bigger sources of conflict, from what I gathered. I would have been fine with a simple name change, but them saying they needed to get rid if Stella and replace her with Luna makes me worried that they stripped the character of that pro-active role.

[Jinx]

Lunafreya is a god AWFUL name.

Also her character design is super ugly.

[Freya]

No it isn't. It has my name in it :(

[Formalhaut]

I agree completely. Stella, or at least, what we saw of her, seemed so much more interesting. I liked the dualism between her and Noctis. Of them being enemies, but having an unusual sense of respect between each other despite the conflict. And I've already mentioned the name but I'll mention it again: Lunafreya is a pretty godawful name. Heck, shortening her name to just 'Luna' or just 'Freya' would have been preferable.

I know we haven't seen much of Luna, and hopefully we will see more in trailers, but as it stands currently, it doesn't look great.

[Fynn]

Idk, I like the name Lunafreya, and I like her design, and I think she's way prettier than Stella, but I still would have preferred we could have both :(

[Jinx]

'Luna' is a great name, 'Freya' is a great name. The two together? Not so much. xD

Also, you can't really call her the exact same character when they've confirmed that, although Luna is replacing Stella, her role and story will be different.

RE: Not wanting to play a game without a female character
I've played many games with a male lead or male-only character. I still enjoy them, but I enjoy playing a female avatar better. And this game in particular just doesn't interest me anymore, and part of it is lack of women. I don't see what's sad or boring about that. It's just not really something I think I'll enjoy.

[Loony BoB]

'Luna' is a great name, 'Freya' is a great name. The two together? Not so much. xD
Yeah, this. Pretty sure that they're calling her Luna for short, though, which is great. Hopefully Lunafreya is said about as often as Ashelia B'nargin Dalmasca was said in FFXII.

[Psychotic]

Also, you can't really call her the exact same character when they've confirmed that, although Luna is replacing Stella, her role and story will be different. Yeah but it's a role and story that, in both cases, nobody knows anything about. Grieving for a character only seen in a couple of trailers here and there is just odd to me. What's more, based on a couple of trailers people have decided that Stella is somehow superior when we'll never know. I don't know if people just think Tabata decided "hey we have a great character here... let's pull her out and replace her with something awful instead!" but chances are Stella just wasn't working and having her be replaced is an improvement.
RE: Not wanting to play a game without a female character
I've played many games with a male lead or male-only character. I still enjoy them, but I enjoy playing a female avatar better. And this game in particular just doesn't interest me anymore, and part of it is lack of women. I don't see what's sad or boring about that. It's just not really something I think I'll enjoy.Sure, that's your prerogative and we all enjoy what we enjoy, I'm just trying to understand. Just out of curiosity, do you find things like The Lord of the Rings or The Godfather to be unwatchable because of this issue? What about games (there aren't very many though!) where there's a non-white protagonist? Does that also put you off? I remember back in the day a lot of people on GameFAQs (I know, I know) claimed they wanted nothing to do with GTA San Andreas because they couldn't relate to a black main character. I just assumed it was typical bigotry but I dunno, maybe there's more to it.

[Jinx]

The Lord of the Rings trilogy are my favorite movies. I also really love the books. I enjoy a lot of things with male protagonists--and let's be frank, that's a lot of things. I can't remember playing a game with a non-white protagonist, but they don't put me off. Nor does any other media with non-white protagonists. I don't care about consuming media with protagonists who are different than I am. I actually really enjoy it because it allows me into the mind and allows me to gain perspective of people who are different than me.

In the case of this game, they've really been trying to sell that it's a bro-fest. It's not just there's no playable female characters (although that does make me less inclined to go out of my way to play it), it's that they're really pushing that it's a game about a boy's club and that just doesn't appeal to me at all.

[Del Murder]

I think it is good that he is making it his own rather than try to fit to what was supposed to be Versus. But I still wish we had gotten the original Versus and then use all these new concepts for a completely new FFXV.

It would have been nice to see how FFXV would have turned out in 2032.
What do you mean would have? That's probably when it's coming out regardless.

[Shorty]

I don't get this "I'm not playing this now because there's no female characters!" when there's exactly the same amount of female characters as there's always been, just different ones.

I don't get it anyway, actually. I'm going to bring FFX-2 into it whether people like that or not, but not as a "it balances it out and therefore that makes it okay" but from personal perspective. I loved FFX-2 even though there was no male avatar for me. It wasn't even an issue, I didn't think twice about it, and you know what? I had a blast.

Don't get me wrong, diversity is always a positive and it's good to have someone similar to yourself to relate to, but having it as a dealbreaker is just strange to me. I mean if you desperately need a protagonist of the same gender that's your prerogative, I just think that must be a miserable way to live life. "Can't be reading Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit!" or "Portal? Nah, no dudes, sorry, I'm out". That's just outright weird to me.

It's just as Tara said. Now we're left with the unzipped female mechanic and another dull female side character. It's a disappointing revelation.

[Psychotic]

How do you know she's dull or a side character? From what was revealed at the end of Duscae I suspect - and I could be wrong - she will be a central figure to the plot. Also there's Badass Dragoon Lady and the green eyed woman too, we just don't know their names yet. Square have said there will be more female characters revealed in time.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

I'm with Psychotic on this one. I have no issues with someone saying they might be less likely to play a game because of an all female or all male playable cast. That's not something that bothers me personally, but everyone's different and I also get that males are more common to play as than females in games. The lack of female playable characters is another issue altogether though, and it's one that has been confirmed since Tabata started talking about the game. It's something I thought was a thing since we first started seeing gameplay type stuff when it was still Versus XIII. Either way, the idea of this road trip adventure between just guys could easily be a turn off for someone. It's understandable.

The thing I don't understand, like Psychotic, is what the big deal is with Luna. Sure, Stella looked cool and she doesn't exist. That's kind of sad. I can also see it be kind of sad for the people thinking we were getting another interesting female character but instead one is being replaced. But we literally know nothing about Luna to make any kind of judgment on what she'll be like as a character. Literally just a couple of seconds of her sitting there gives nothing to go off of. She could very well be a dull character. I doubt it, but it's possible. I'm sure elements of Stella will still be present for her. They've hinted that she'll be a central character to the plot just like Stella was, so her role will still be big. We'll just have to wait and see before we can start claiming what kind of character she is. Likewise, it's possible that outside of the few scenes shown to us of Stella, she would have turned out to be a rather dull character or had little presence in the story. Unlikely, but possible. We didn't have much more to go off of there.

We'll just have to wait and see. We might get female characters joining our party as guests. I think they've hinted at that possibility. We might get a lot of cool female NPCs in the world that aren't as big a role as the three they've already kind of shown. Dragoon lady, Luna, and the green eyed girl might turn out to be the best characters in the game and hold more importance than most of the guys. Who knows. We're all just making assumptions here with little info to go on when it comes to the characters.

[Formalhaut]

I think the question isn't if Luna will play a big role to play in the game; no doubt she probably will (though it would have been nice to have illustrated that more fully).

I think the real question is what her big role will be in game. Another damsel in distress or a strong, powerful woman? First impressions matter when you're trying to create build-up around characters. We really didn't see much of Stella, but it was already enough for people to be excited and think she was a determined, strong character. Her characterization was evident in really not that much material. My problem with Luna is that I'm struggling to get a grasp of her character. It doesn't help that we haven't seen very much of her at all.

Square Enix must have anticipated that people will be rightly worried that they were removing Stella from the game. She was sort of the psuedo-female lead - paired off with her interactions with Noctis. What they should have done when introducing Luna was to show us more of her, to reassure us that Luna will still be just as good as Stella. They kept dodging the 'Where's Stella' question with sort of vague answers which only fueled speculation. Ultimately, it was a missed opportunity to really sell off Luna. Because Luna will be compared to Stella for a long while as her replacement.

[Pumpkin]

What it boils down to is that it's a product and some people will like it and some people won't and there's really no wrong side. Some people might be really excited for a largely male main cast, and some might be turned off by it. I think a lot of the issue with those turned off by it is that there are so many male dominant games, and if you like playing as a woman, it's nice to have women. I like female characters on average more than male characters, but I still enjoy playing some male characters as well. But because so many protagonists are male, I find it very refreshing when I can play as a female protagonist because it isn't as common. And that's just with RPG's, there are some genres where it's much harder to find stong, non-sexualized, lead female characters.

This doesn't mean I can't play as men, but I still have a preference as I'm sure a lot of people do. I really don't generally like the jerk protagonist, but some people love those types. I'll still play them, but I prefer something different. And as far as my personal feelings, female characters are what draw me in to a game. I see a female character I like, I look up the game, I possibly buy it. Different things attract different people and that's the main one for me. At this rate, if I wasn't such a loyal FF fan, there would have been nothing to draw me in to the game so far. Stella didn't interest me that much either to be completely honest, the only one who has is the green eyed girl and they haven't given me nearly enough to get hyped about. Doesn't mean I'm mad or feel cheated, but the hook for me just isn't there right now. Really the only reason I'm interested is because it's Final Fantasy. That could still change, but who knows!

I think the main issue with Stella is they've shown us scenes where she's having the standoff with Noctis and a few others wheras they haven't shown us those types of things with Luna. Why? Is it because she's a more passive character? Is it because the character change is relatively new and they don't have much yet? I have no idea! Personally I find her more visually appealing than Stella, I like her design more, and Stella never interested me much, so I was just hoping for another lady. But that might be the issue some have with the change. They've shown Stella as being a way they're excited for and now they show Luna in a less exciting way, which can be disappointing.

But at the end of the day people are allowed to buy or not buy this game for whatever reason they want to and they're also allowed to be excited or disappointed about the changes being made. This is a Final Fantasy forum, we've been waiting for this game forever, people are going to be passionate. When you wait that long for something you're excited about, you WANT to like it, you WANT it to be worth the wait, so seeing stuff you may not like can be pretty disappointing. I actually think it's nice to see people getting passionate about the game. We have disagreements and stuff with the older games and I'm sure it happened when they were new as well. What characters were good and bad, who was better, why the game was better or worse. No one is really wrong it's just different opinions.

At the end of the day if someone chooses not to play because they changed Stella or don't have enough female characters, well it's a video game and it's for fun so why would they buy something to be disappointed with it? And if someone buys it because it has so many main male characters or because they didn't seem to like Stella but seem more excited about Luna, then hey maybe they'll like the game and it will be money well spent! When it comes to entertainment we just have to find what suits us

[FFFFsephychibi]

honestly just googled freya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyja

First line

'In Norse mythology, Freyja (/ˈfreɪə/; Old Norse for "(the) Lady") is a goddess associated with love, sexuality, beauty, fertility, gold, seiðr, war, and death. '

I have a feeling the names in FFXV mean something metaphoric (obviouslyyyyy) so maybe luna isn't that far off from the idea of stella......

[Fynn]

Or maybe they just wanted a shout-out to FFIX. They've been doing a lot of shout-outs with this game so far.

[Freya]

;) that's right everyone.

[FFFFsephychibi]

Or maybe they just wanted a shout-out to FFIX. They've been doing a lot of shout-outs with this game so far.

That is totally a possibility, why the smurf not. Freya from FF9 was awesome so I'm okay with this :D!

[DMKA]

Wait, her name is Lunafreya? o__O

[Psychotic]

But at the end of the day people are allowed to buy or not buy this game for whatever reason they want to and they're also allowed to be excited or disappointed about the changes being made. Well that's been my point all along. If someone makes a bunch of posts about how they won't buy this game because they don't like characters whose names begin with Q then that's their right. But then I'm absolutely going to ask why and point out that we don't even have all the information as to who the characters even are yet and we don't even know they're going to have names beginning with Q!
In the case of this game, they've really been trying to sell that it's a bro-fest. It's not just there's no playable female characters (although that does make me less inclined to go out of my way to play it), it's that they're really pushing that it's a game about a boy's club and that just doesn't appeal to me at all.Having played through the primary marketing material for this game, Episode Duscae, it really does not come across as a boys' club or brofest to me. They're men and they're friends, but there's no stereotypical dudebro stuff like chugging beer, sport, MMM LETS PICK UP CHICKS etc. I think the worst thing was one of them calling another a princess in a teasing way.

[Pumpkin]

Well, Psychotic, Quina has a Q name and Quina is awesome, so I will miss the entirety of your post because you used the Q example. Maybe you should think about that next time.

[Psychotic]

Well, Psychotic, Quina has a Q name and Quina is awesome, so I will miss the entirety of your post because you used the Q example. Maybe you should think about that next time.But that was my point! Q names are awesome! :quina:

[Jinx]

In the case of this game, they've really been trying to sell that it's a bro-fest. It's not just there's no playable female characters (although that does make me less inclined to go out of my way to play it), it's that they're really pushing that it's a game about a boy's club and that just doesn't appeal to me at all.Having played through the primary marketing material for this game, Episode Duscae, it really does not come across as a boys' club or brofest to me. They're men and they're friends, but there's no stereotypical dudebro stuff like chugging beer, sport, MMM LETS PICK UP CHICKS etc. I think the worst thing was one of them calling another a princess in a teasing way.

Fair enough, but in that regards, I'd blame the marketing team. I'm only going by what I've seen, not what I've played.

[Loony BoB]

The marketing team didn't say much on the matter, to be honest, they were just answering a question about why there were no playable girls and the media did the rest of the work. Just the way things go sometimes.

[Jinx]

I'm talking about the people who made the game trailers.

[Vyk]

It's all about first impressions. It seems Stella had a better first impression

[Lawr]

Basically, what Psychotic said! Like all of it!



It's all about first impressions. It seems Stella had a better first impression

I'm still pretty young but in all my life I've never seen anything good or fruitful come out of making judgements from only first impressions in real life, video games, alternate dimensions, whatever the smurf, etc.

I really don't think they're gonna drop the ball with Luna, you guys (and girls :-)) so let's just pour some Promethazine into our collective Grammies, sit back, and let Hajime Tabata deal with making Luna a badass female character, so we can finally discuss other equally important things, like...why does everyone in this game have a stupid name? Or what that artwork of Regis holding a young Noctics could mean? Is Regis one of the Knights of the Round? Is Noctics himself a summon? Why did the chicken cross the road? Why isn't it the same chicken from the first time the joke was told hundreds of years ago?

[Ayen]

Count the number of games in the last couple of years where you can play as a male lead.
Now count the number of games where you can play as a female lead.
Now count the number of those games with a female lead where the female in question was written for a female demographic.

And when you notice the gap you'll understand what the problem is which far exceeds that of Final Fantasy XV or any one title in particular. The fact of the matter is there are more options for the men when it comes to playing video games than there are for the women. The annoying part comes in when women still have to put up a fuss just to get a playable character of their own sex. Not speaking for anyone in this thread, just looking at the big picture. If women want to play games they either have to be a man or go without. As oppose to the man who always has the option to play the man even if they occasionally like to be someone with tits.

[Formalhaut]

This is why my favorite games so far has been games where you can change the protagonist. Games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. Do you want to play as a male or a female? The choice is there! Really at this point it'd be quite something to have the option to play as a non-binary character, or a transgender character. But you know, small steps. Most games can't even get male/female right :p

[Psychotic]

Saints Row 2 did it best because gender was on a slider.

[Lawr]

I think what I and some other people have a hard time understanding is how much of a deal-breaker it is to not have any female playable characters, or whatever the issue is now (or maybe a culmination of issues.)

There are other games that are way more saturated with testosterone, and beer, and are actually misogynistic on purpose (Grand Theft Auto is a great example!) that I would think deserve a bigger outcry than Final Fantasy XV. I'd hate to think people would just absolutely tighten up their jackets and cringe away from one entry of a franchise that we've been waiting on for what feels like 82 years. The problem is obviously bigger than this game but it seems like it's been receiving the side-eye and especially more so after the Cidney thing. Which, the outcry was understandable then, and still is now. The Cidney thing. And I appreciate those with with the unpopular opinions making a fuss about it, but the whole Stella thing and all-boys party tantrums, in a game that explains why there's an all-boys party, just bewilders me.

And also, me being a black man I could complain about the lack of non-stereotypical black characters in FF. Other than Viera from Ivalice, I think we have Sazh and Barrett who are essentially the joke characters of their respective casts lmao. I could turn away from FFXV because of that but I think I would be missing out on too much of the good this game has to offer.

[Jinx]

I'm not turning away on principle. I'm turning away because the story no longer interests me. You don't understand it, you just have to accept it. What I don't understand why it's such an issue to some of you that people aren't interested in something simply because of what it does or does not have. People have different interests and tastes and likes and dislikes. Deal with it.

[Psychotic]

Yeah, the Cindy thing is, to my mind and I appreciate everyone's standards vary, entirely worse than having the party be all male. You may well have to have played the demo to have my perspective (go watch my LP of it on the EoFF channel if you haven't! shameless plug ahoy!) The main team seem like an interesting and neat group, and it's a shame people feel that way about them without giving them a chance. Cindy, on the other hand, is gratuitous, awkward and cringeworthy. I don't feel strongly enough about her for it to be a dealbreaker, but I'd completely understand why it would be for some people.
People have different interests and tastes and likes and dislikes. Deal with it.And I'm interested in discussing those tastes with people on the internet when they post about them in an internet discussion. You deal with it! :tongue:

[Lawr]

Okay that's the first time I've heard someone just not being interested in the story which is just as cool and awesome as any other reason. It's a good reason to not play Final Fantasy XV, but I will not just "deal with it" for the other reasons stated in the thread, because it's a discussion board, and I'm actually generally interested on why, if any, of the other aspects of this game irks you. Not you specifically of course!

I'm interested in the female opinions on here because I grew up surrounded by a lot of female family members and besides Cidney, I don't think they would get the anti-female vibe from this game at all that EoFF seems to be getting.

[Jinx]

Okay. Fair enough. xD I just feel like a lot of the responses have been "HOW DARE YOU NOT BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THIS THING!!!!" which is frankly just silly. You mentioned lack of non-caricature minority characters, and you're right. And if you said you weren't interested in playing the game because of lack of representation or poor representation, I'd think your reasoning was as valid as any other.

I don't think the story is anti-female, just that's it's male-centric and it makes me less inclined to play it. I'm interested in FFvsXIII, not FFXV. If someone else had a copy of the game and offered to let me borrow it, I would definitely play it. But I'm not going to go out of my way to play something that doesn't interest me either. Same reason I don't watch Breaking Bad: even though people have said it's one of the greatest shows of all time, it just doesn't interest me.

[Shorty]

I don't think anti-female is correctly how I feel. Uninclusive to the degree I would prefer is more how I would phrase it. Was it really truly totally necessary to axe Luna with so many male characters who can't all be of such esteemed value? Granted, we don't really know the true value of Stella, either; she could have been worthless.

I just feel like questioning why her out of all of the rest of the entourage. Surely one of them was expendable. It lessens my interest in a game whose creators would take that move when there were most likely other probable options.

[Psychotic]

Okay. Fair enough. xD I just feel like a lot of the responses have been "HOW DARE YOU NOT BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THIS THING!!!!" which is frankly just silly.If my posts have come across as that then welp, my bad, as it's not my intention.

It calls back to that old adage of everyone being entitled to an opinion. Well, sure, but it works both ways. I'm entitled to an opinion on your opinion. And heck you're entitled to an opinion on my opinion of your opinion. And that's a discussion! If you were having a discussion in visitor messages and I suddenly burst in and started opinioning all over them I'd be an asshole, but conversely posting an opinion in a public discussion like this is just implicit permission to respond to that opinion. If we didn't respond to or interact with each other then forums would be boring as trout, and if people with differing opinions didn't challenge or discuss them with each other we'd never learn or grow. I don't think there's a sense of "How dare you post opinions! Hand in your opinion badge and gun!" but more "Oh, you think X? I don't get it because I think Y. Why do you think X?"

On the topic at hand, I'll try to clarify. I, too, would prefer all games to have protagonists that looked like me or a giant death walrus with lightsaber tusks but the difference is that it's not a dealbreaker if it doesn't. It intrigues me that people who are ostensibly fans of the Final Fantasy series are washing their hands of the game based on a reason that I don't get, and I'm trying to get it. I'm not saying that reason isn't real for them just because I don't get it and I'm not going to show up at anyone's house with a gun and a copy of FFXV and say "surprise mothersmurfer" either.

I also think there's too many what ifs and far too little information to actually go on with regards to Stella, Luna and other females and their roles in the game. I've posted about Noctis's retinue and Cindy because I've spent time with them in the demo. I have no idea what the full game has in store and, beyond assuming that Luna is going to have a big role to play and that Stella was cut because her story simply wasn't working, I wouldn't want to guess much more.

[Jinx]

I, too, would prefer all games to have protagonists that looked like me or a giant death walrus with lightsabre tusks

I think we can meet on common ground and say that would be a smurfing sweet game.

For the record, I haven't "washed my hands of it". I'm not boycotting the game or saying it's not worth playing simply because it lacks things that are important to me or would cause me to be interested in it. It's more just...there IS getting off of this hype train we're on. And I got off at the last station.

But if people enjoy the game, cool. Have fun.

[Lawr]

Oh yeah sorry for exaggeration by saying anti-female.


Okay. Fair enough. xD I just feel like a lot of the responses have been "HOW DARE YOU NOT BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THIS THING!!!!" which is frankly just silly.

Ignore them they're so irrelevant!



I don't think anti-female is correctly how I feel. Uninclusive to the degree I would prefer is more how I would phrase it. Was it really truly totally necessary to axe Luna with so many male characters who can't all be of such esteemed value? Granted, we don't really know the true value of Stella, either; she could have been worthless.

I just feel like questioning why her out of all of the rest of the entourage. Surely one of them was expendable. It lessens my interest in a game whose creators would take that move when there were most likely other probable options.

Honeybunch you're right! Everyone got an updated look but it does seem like she's the only one whose actual role in the story got drastically changed. That would irk me too if Barrett was supposed to have Delita (I'm gonna say Delita and Tietra are black too. Please guys let us have this one!) from Final Fantasy Tactics levels of character development but then ended up being...well Barrett. But I didn't even see it that way until you said something, you was just gonna let me rant in my ignorance all day long huh?



Edit
I still think they'll do a bang up job with Luna though!

[Wolf Kanno]

Chances are, they was nothing about Stella beyond the trailers to begin with. I wouldn't be surprised if the original "script" was basically just a notepad with some ideas Nojima and Nomaru had discussed and there was no real solid ideas whatsoever. Luna was obviously born from those ideas from the notes but may have shifted from what the concept trailers were implying and changed her name so players wouldn't be surprised that said scenes from the concept trailers never made it in.

I get the impression from the interviews and how quickly Tabata has been to release info on the game that nothing really solid had been done for most of the time fans thought Versus XIII was in development. I get the impression even Nomura couldn't tell you what Versus XIII would have looked like as a finished product because he never did enough work on it to have a solid idea himself. Same with Nojima, because if he had a script already written up, there wouldn't be any reason to change it beyond money concerns, but the fact it has been changed so much tells me there may not have been a solid concept to begin with, like the staff was working with a rough draft of the script (which happened with XII as well) and just had to do with it what they could. There is also the issue of the game now trying to fit into the traditional FF mold; Versus XIII was suppose to be a radical departure from the series norm, and while XV is keeping elements of that, it does seem like Tabata is working with fan feedback to try and shift it more into mainstream success, so that too would qualify for changes in the script.

Versus XIII has had such a shadowy and troubled production that I really don't see why people would be surprised or disappointed that it has dramatically changed from the concept trailers. I can't think of a game that spent close to ten years in development hell and not come out being somewhat disappointing. I think FFXV has a shot to be a real gem but I almost wonder if would have been smarter to just pull the plug on Versus XIII and just let Tabata, or some other director not named Toriyama, to just start fresh with an original FFXV.

[Ayen]

The only thing I was ever genuinely interested in when the game was still Versus XIII was Stella, or what little we knew about her. Though I somehow mistook her rapier for a staff, I liked her look and weapon. When I learned the game would only allow you to play as the men, I lost interest as I would've preferred to play as Stella. I didn't wash my hands clean until they put Cidney in something a stripper would wear. Same reason I won't be getting Metal Gear Solid V as they did the same thing with Quiet. If that never happened then this latest news would've killed my interest in the game even further. Not being able to play as Stella is one thing, having her revamped in such a drastic way is quite another.

As for "we have such little information to go on" well, yeah. More news could come out later that turns things around and recapture interest, but people have a tendency to react to what they see when they see it. That's why when DmC was first making the rounds all people could talk about was his bloody hair.

[Psychotic]

Not being able to play as Stella is one thing, having her revamped in such a drastic way is quite another.Why is altering a character who wasn't working a bad thing?

[Ayen]

Not being able to play as Stella is one thing, having her revamped in such a drastic way is quite another.Why is altering a character who wasn't working a bad thing?

Why do you say Stella wasn't working? From the sound of it she was working quite well as far as fan reaction went. Meanwhile Luna is mostly getting a great big "Meh."

But to answer your question, it's because before she could have at least been in the background, now she's not there at all.

[Psychotic]

Why do you say Stella wasn't working?That's not me saying that, that's Hajime Tabata saying that. Watch the video in the OP! :p (37:49, you're welcome)

In the Lord of the Rings, Aragorn was originally going to be a hobbit called Trotter, because that was the sound his wooden feet made. This is absolutely true, you can look that up. Stella is Trotter. Luna is Aragorn.

[Ayen]

Why do you say Stella wasn't working?That's not me saying that, that's Hajime Tabata saying that. Watch the video in the OP! (37:49, you're welcome)

That's unfortunate, but I understand better now.

[Vyk]

I don't think people have a lot of faith in Squeenix anymore. And understandably so. I know Tabata is a different story than any regular generic Squeenix producer or director, but we haven't seen enough of his work to be sure, and we know he's not the only cook with his fingers in the pot. Producer meddling is not uncommon. And I can safely say that in my opinion Square definitely did drop the ball regarding FFX and XIII. Such horrible storytelling and cliche characters and lots of ridiculous garbage. When they take away something good, it's completely reasonable for people to feel unsure if they'd put something good back in its place

I'm obviously not in the Stella camp, but I can totally understand where they're coming from. Square's track record would lead one to believe this is just a bad idea. It would have been more reassuring to find out they tweaked the story a little to make Stella work, rather than tweaking Stella to make the story work

I have no reason to believe they changed her because wasn't working. They've made bigger decisions based on more ridiculous reasons. It'll be a long time before they come out and tell the full story, so even though Tabata is awesome, I'll take that kind of negative press release information with a grain of salt. Not because I don't trust Tabata. But because I don't trust Square to make rational decisions

Plus I think it's a little silly that they don't try to paint Luna in a better light if they wanted everyone to accept her as a replacement and get over it more quickly. Perhaps they should have done a little more reveal on her when they dropped this bomb. It sounds like they haven't done anything. So we're still left with her meekly sitting at a dinner table looking awkward. Nobody ever got the impression that Stella was going to be meek and awkward

First impressions

Or, impressions in general. The reveals for them gave vastly different impressions. And while Luna's wasn't inherently negative, it's not exactly positive either

So I think they should just reveal some more stuff about her and give us a reason to stand behind her

I haven't washed my hands of anything, because I hadn't really formed an opinion on Stella. But I'm not particularly fond of what I've seen of Luna so far, so given the choice, I would have personally preferred what they were depicting with Stella. But I'm willing to give Luna a chance. They had just better give me a reason to

[Night Fury]

I don't think people have a lot of faith in Squeenix anymore. And understandably so.

For me it boils down to exactly this. I don't have any faith in them anymore. Already it's taken them SO DAMN LONG to make this game, which is one thing. Then all of a sudden there are no playable females which made me feel a bit 'meh'. Then I saw Cidney. Then was the demo that I didn't like all that much. I feel like it's just not going to be my kind of game in the same way that Type-0 wasn't either. I just didn't fancy it.

If there was a playable female I might have been a bit more swayed towards picking it up, but I'm just not at all. And I really think this game is going to be shite - just from what I've seen and heard of it. It's not my kind of Final Fantasy.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

A lot has been said since my last post that I haven't had much of a chance to read. I just want to say that I'm sorry if my post came across as too judgmental or anything. I honestly don't care much if people are turned off by this game and don't want to play it. There are lots of factors we've seen so far that could lead to people feeling that way. I think that the knee jerk reaction to the Stella stuff just comes from already having so many negative reactions to the game with Cidney, all male cast, etc that it's easy to just immediately see this as a negative thing. All I'm saying is that we literally have nothing but a couple of seconds to go on for Luna, and I don't understand how people have such strong opinions about her as a character. She may be shit. She might not be. Who knows. I don't fault someone for not wanting this game due to other things that go against their tastes though. I don't fault people for being sad that we are missing out on some of the scenes that were there from the beginning. Really, it all comes down to the fact that Square should never have shown us ANYTHING about Versus XIII until Tabata took over considering work likely wasn't getting done on it throughout the time Nomura was "directing" it.

I have to agree with Wolf Kanno that most of the stuff we saw involving characters in the original concept trailers and such probably didn't exist much more outside of those trailers. It's likely Stella was just this cool concept that was never fleshed out past what we saw, and it just didn't completely mesh with the direction Tabata is going. I hope Luna can end up being an improvement over Stella when it comes to the world and story being created, but we'll have to wait to see. I'd love to see if more was actually worked on for this game during the Nomura years though if we ever get a translation for the likely Ultimania that will appear for this game.

[Fynn]

On the topic of Cindy - didn't Tabata say they'd tone her down, since he never intended her to be so fetishy?

Lawr: Marach and Rapha were definitely black :D I think there were also black characters in Vagrant Story. Matsuno seems to care, at least a bit.

I also think all these announcements just have terrible timing concerning certain... events in gaming that really brought gender issues to the front.

[Shorty]

"I didn't realize that having one of the few females in the game as a greased-up mechanic with her top unzipped would be considered so fetishizing!" sounds very convincing. Does he intend to tone her down by zipping up her jumpsuit?

[Night Fury]

"I didn't realize that having one of the few females in the game as a greased-up mechanic with her top unzipped would be considered so fetishizing!" sounds very convincing. Does he intend to tone her down by zipping up her jumpsuit?

Maybe he'll put her in actual mechanic clothes?

[Fynn]

I don't know. You know, he didn't design her :exdee: Apparently, one of the things that will be done is the camera no longer focusing on her boobs and ass.

[Shorty]

I guess I'll lead back the the Stella thing with saying this: axing her proves to me that the game creators do not care about developing strong female characters. They took away the chance to do it with Stella, who had already been built up as the most prominent female. The rest we have are the objectification of Cindy, knowing nothing about Luna, and the promise of a forthcoming dragoon lady.

So far, we a strikeout with no female leads, a strikeout with Cindy, a strikeout with Stella, and null and null on the two latter accounts. It's not the comparison of Strider and Trotter, it's George Lucas talking about the Star Wars sequels and then the Star Wars sequels happening.

And I know the game is all still in smurfing development, and that we don't know about what's to come, but it's not good enough. It's just not good enough, not this far in development. What we have to work with are two unknown and undeveloped characters. If they cared about their female characters, they wouldn't be half-assing this trout with them and tossing together half-formed plans with them and chucking out their main gal (who isn't even a main gal because there are no main gals) while the rest of it looks so solid and laid out. Out of everything, it really appears that the lady cast is the bottom of the barrel of concern. That is what is off-putting to me about this game, and that is why I struggle to procure enthusiasm for it.

I can and have on many occasions enjoyed playing as male leads and have no opposition to playing as someone who is not of my gender, but with this particular game just not upholding the standard of making any sort of outreach to female gamers in any capacity whatsoever (50% of the industry, folks) and having it continue to blow chances with our representation, I just have to sortof say what the smurf.

[Psychotic]

Why are people saying all we've seen of Luna shows her as meek? Did nobody pay attention to Duscae? Here is some smurfing incredible artwork from the end of it:

64611

There is a voiceover of a news broadcaster explaining how the city has just been absolutely hammered and Luna is dead. Well, wrong. Look at her. She's not some dainty meek woman, she is a god damn survivor. Soldiers in the background? Luna gives no smurfs. She has just walked away from the apocalypse, ragged, desperate, but alive and what's more has tricked them into thinking she's dead. No dashing hero has saved the damsel in distress, she's saved herself.

Incidentally, Noctis and his gang were meant to be fighting their way out of the city too but if you watch the video, that's the other big change. They're simply not going to be there when it goes down. Luna sure as hell is.

I also think it's important to note that the last three FF games released have had a female lead character. Well developed and strong female lead characters at that. In addition to that, Type-0 didn't really have a lead character but I don't think it's unreasonable to say the most major and developed member of Class Zero was Rem. So I'm left confused when people say they don't trust Square to do females justice based on recent history when in recent history they've done a much better job with creating strong female characters than strong male characters.

[Pheesh]

You're all insane, why don't you just wait for the game to come out, wait for people to play it or, better yet, play it for yourself and then decide whether you want to get in a huff about it?

Everyone in here is trying to pretend like they know anything about these characters (Luna and Stella that is) from literally minutes of footage, when the fact of the matter is you can't possibly know a single thing because the game isn't friggin finished. All you've done is taken a character that is no longer around and assigned all your ideal traits to her knowing that no one can prove you wrong because we'll never know what her actual character was like. That's awfully convenient but the fact of the matter is that when people say that Stella was God's gift to characterisation they're as of yet no more right than a person who says Luna could be an interesting character. If you're not part of the dev team then you just can't go around pretending like anything you're saying holds merit because you don't know anything more than a snippet of Stella's personality.

Just wait for the damn game to come out before you decide to rate it a zero at least.

[Vyk]

Its still all about impressions and speculation. And though I have played Duscae, I didn't beat it. The game mechanics didn't translate well to my hands, just like Type-0, and when one battle lasted over 12 in-game hours and only ended when daylight cropped up, I completely lost interest in finishing the damn thing. I'd had a headache from listening to a straight half hour of battle music. And it seems only a small handful of people ever saw it. Only those who bought Type-0, on release, and managed to play through it, as I know I'm not the only person who gave up. It's a very small percentage

Seems like Square could have showed her to everyone better, as my only experience with her, is her sitting awkwardly at a dining table and looking around blankly and meekly. That's the only impression I've experienced with her

And it honestly wouldn't surprise me if she still had a meek personality if she has this untapped power that kept her alive, it has nothing to do with her personality. I've seen it happen in Japanese media before. I'm looking for things that showcase her personality. Not her ability

I mean, Yuna had arguably an awesome amount of power, and look how meek she always acted. So I honestly don't know if that would have convinced me she had a strong survivalist personality. But I'll have to watch it, or struggle through the demo again. Maybe I'll wait for the patch to see if its any more playable for me

Though no offense, but I call BS saying the last 3 Final Fantasy games had strong female leads. For one, I don't count a "saga of" side stories to be mainline games, so it's just Final Fantasy 13 games had female leads. But even outside of that nitpick, I don't think Lightning represents what women want to see in games. She was physically strong, sure. But also deadpan, slightly brain damaged, and way too much of a mary sue half the time. In fact, a lot of characters in that game had things just miraculously work out for them, rather than them actually achieving things through skill and planning. Though admittedly, I've heard the second and third games were treated better, and I have less experience with them. The women (and even men) were far from admirable in XIII from my experience. I would not use them as examples of well crafted characters

So no. I like what I see of the XV cast more already than I ever did the XIII cast, but I don't have any faith that they'll unsexy Cindy, or that they'll make Luna in any regard competent until they actually show it happening. And I do plan on purchasing this game, to find out. Since they've already convinced me it will be a better game than XIII. But that's still not saying much lol

[Psychotic]

Though no offense, but I call BS saying the last 3 Final Fantasy games had strong female leads. For one, I don't count a "saga of" side stories to be mainline games, so it's just Final Fantasy 13 games had female leads. But even outside of that nitpick, I don't think Lightning represents what women want to see in games. She was physically strong, sure. But also deadpan, slightly brain damaged, and way too much of a mary sue half the time. In fact, a lot of characters in that game had things just miraculously work out for them, rather than them actually achieving things through skill and planning. Though admittedly, I've heard the second and third games were treated better, and I have less experience with them. The women (and even men) were far from admirable in XIII from my experience. I would not use them as examples of well crafted charactersNo offence taken, and likewise please take none when I call BS on you discounting games either because they don't prove your point or because you haven't played them. The title of the games or continuity of the games is not relevant. Square put time, resources and money into developing and releasing these games under the Final Fantasy name. They are the only single player Final Fantasy titles to be released during that console generation and could've just as easily had a male character be the lead in them but they chose not to do so.

Anyway, while I find it a little odd that you're speaking for women and what they want, the truth is actually rather different. The official Final Fantasy forums in Japan did polls on who the best male and female characters are. Lightning is ridiculously well-liked (http://www.novacrystallis.com/2013/01/japan-ranks-their-favorite-female-characters-from-the-final-fantasy-series/), and Serah, who I prefer as a character, also makes the top ten. I would also disagree with your view on the characters. Final Fantasy XIII has a hell of a lot of sins as a game, but if you think character development was one of them I don't really know what to say to you. It has much better development than the majority of Final Fantasy games and I don't like saying that because I'm not an XIII fan.

But, look, if you've never played XIII-2 or Lightning Returns I don't think you're really in a position to start making such sweeping statements about either the games or the characters anyway. Not only that, if you want games with female leads, start supporting them, otherwise your complaints about XV having male leads don't really hold much weight. They're both good games, really!

[Vyk]

Yeah. It was actually really early in the morning for me (woken up prematurely) and I was in a mood. You're honestly completely right. Though I have experienced the original XIII, and was completely unimpressed in all regards. But then again, I've also heard people who hated FFX were still able to love X-2

Though honestly, I think Japan is a lot (A LOT) more forgiving regarding the lack of progressive characters in entertainment. They seem to truly enjoy cliche stereotypes that have little-to-no development, or are even hard to relate to. They don't seem to need an avatar in their games, nor do they seem to require any advancement in storytelling. They're never eager for something refreshing it seems

Though it wouldn't honestly surprise me if Lightning is actually more well liked by a silent majority in the west than I realize, so that point is probably moot

I'm just ... picky about my entertainment these days. Though it is certainly a waste of energy to expect every developer to cater to that. Especially eastern developers, who mostly care about eastern standards and preferences. It's a whole different beast in the west, and they are having trouble understanding and keeping up

I just had a long discussion with Skyblade on Nintendo's growing pains, and I guess it goes without saying most of the eastern developers are going through growing pains as they struggle to find this balance between giving Japan their cliches, and giving the West their refreshing more developed characters

And I was at least this worked up over Nintendo on a much smaller issue

And just like with Sky, I will accept the insight of someone more experienced in the issue. . I haven't played the other games, and I'm grumpy, and not being as objective as I could be

[Shiny]

Wait, her name is Lunafreya? o__O

Ew wtf. They need to get more creative with their names or actually LESS creative.

I'm not really sure why people are complaining about this game as Square has put out FFX-2, and the Lightning series with strong playable female leads. They are not the enemy company we should be looking at. I'd say companies like Ubi Soft are more notorious for being sexist than Square. With that said, I have no interest in this game because Square hasn't put out a good game since FFX in my opinion. I tried to give their more recent games a shot, but I have been left disappointed. Now if we're here to talk about how racist Square is, then you'd be on the money. As much as I love characters like Barret and chocobo fro head guy are racial stereotypes and Barret's was a negative one. There has yet to be a good black female lead in the majority of video gaming and that's disappointing.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

I feel like this has been posted before in a different thread, but I was looking up the trailers they released since Versus XIII was first announced just to kind of remember all of the original things we saw for the game. It's interesting to watch and see how the concepts looked back then compared to now.

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Also, here's a translation of the party scene with Noctis and Stella. I'd never seen it translated before I just realized, so it was interesting to go look and see the Etro mythology stuff being present there and getting kind of a look into how their powers might work.

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I can see why people would be upset by Stella's departure moreso now than just based on my faulty memory of the older trailers. Her character seems a bit intimidating and badass. I never saw her and still don't see looking back the possibility of her in your party as they seem to be more adversarial roles. Them having been acquaintances turned into enemies mixed with the mythology built in their conversation in the last trailer actually seems like an interesting dynamic. I'm really curious how the role is changing with Luna. Hopefully we get more info on that soon (ie, hopefully the game comes out soonish).

Really the concept still looks super interesting to me now looking at those old trailers and what the gameplay looked like back then. I'm not convinced much work was done on them back then still, but I feel more comfortable with the more Kingdom Hearts looking menu compared to what I played in the demo. I'm not too bothered by the inability to switch characters, but I do see cool possibilities that could be present with that ability, especially with setting up traps or ambushes maybe like what was seen in the demo with the Behemoth. The concept for the battles, world, characters, etc all look interesting, and I think a lot of that will still be present, but what we actually got to play in the demo certainly has a different feel and tone compared to all of the stuff we saw in the old trailers.

[Lamia]

I'm happy with the changes. I thought Stella seemed a bit cliche, if i'm being honest. She was like an Aerith to Noctis's Cloud. Feminine, strong, but not too strong, and most importantly, not cynical like the male hero. In fact, now that I think about it, I don't think the media ever depicts women as brooding and cynical. But I digress. Lunafreya is more interesting to me. At the end of the FFXV demo, the news reports that King Regis, Lunafreya, and Noctis are all dead. But we at least know that Noctis and Luna are not. It's obvious why we know Noctis isn't dead, and we see Luna escaping a ravaged Insomnia. Gotta say... i'm intrigued. I don't know a lot about Luna, but I am getting Ashe vibes from her. I think she will be part of some kind of insurgency, and will be mysterious to the player for a good chunk of the game. But like Ashe, she will be key to the conflict, and I think Noct and his gang will be assisting her in her mission. In the scene with her at the dinner table, I don't think she looks vapid. If I were to give a word for the vibe I got from her... it would be "dutiful"... She looks like she's got a duty to fulfill and that she's waiting for the right time before she goes into action. She also seems to have some kind of magic power? I say that because of the flickering lights she seems to produce in that scene. That may very well play a role in the plot.

Anyway, that being said, I do sympathize with those who wanted both Luna and Stella. I think there is a lot of great potential and possibilities with the story if both women existed and we're equally strong characters.

Welp, that's my two cents.

[Egami]

I am personally not too worried about it, but we definitely need to get more info on the story and world of the game (as well as the rest of the characters). The E3 2013 trailer they did was amazing and it really hyped me up for the game and boosted my confidence in it. But after that we have seen little on that side of things and most of the info has been about technical details related to gameplay and graphics; all of which is fine but just as with playing the demo, you end up wanting more. We need another story driven trailer of the same caliber as this...

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That, along with a detailed synopsis and character bios/details would go a long way in giving us a better picture of the game.

A note regarding Stella, given the character portraits shown in the above trailer it seems that Stella had already been taken out and Luna had been included by then. Really looking forward to what they will reveal at Gamescon in August.