Hey Gran Turismo....

[sharkythesharkdogg]

....the gauntlet has been thrown down. (http://www.gamesradar.com/forza-motorsport-6-ditches-microtransactions/)

[Loony BoB]

The cynic in me will point out that they said "at launch" but tbh I'm not bothered either way because I don't really play racing games that don't involve attempting to destroy the opposition.

EDIT: Wait, do people still talk about Gran Turismo? I thought it was all uhm... what was the new one... Drive Club? I don't know.

[Ayen]

You made me think this was about Gran Turismo only to see something about a racing game I don't even play.

CURSE YOU!

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Some of us are hoping the GT series will make a glorious return. It really got that kind of genre going.

I'd rather they focus on a "small" number of cars (450 is a ton) that have a lot of refined detail than trying to just have gobs of cars, or cars they keep adding later. It might be them mincing words, but hopefully that's not the case.

[Mirage]

A good selection of cars is more important than an extreme total number of cars. We don't need 10 miatas and 30 skylines.

Also, the microtransactions in GT6 were hidden in some menu no one would use. You could play through the entire game not even knowing it was possible to buy cash. I don't really have a problem with that.

[Pumpkin]

A good selection of cars is more important than an extreme total number of cars. We don't need 10 miatas and 30 skylines.

Also, the microtransactions in GT6 were hidden in some menu no one would use. You could play through the entire game not even knowing it was possible to buy cash. I don't really have a problem with that.


We don't need 10 miatas


10 miatas

sharky :colbert:

[Mirage]

3 premium ones ought to be enough. :doublecolbert:

One from the 90s, one from the 00s, one from the 10s.

[Bolivar]

Forza isn't even in the same galaxy as Gran Turismo. Even its developers stopped pretending it was, once GT5 came out.

[Slothy]

You're right Bolivar. From what I played of the latest Forza at Christmas when my sister and her husband were here with there Xbone, it's better than GT in many ways. Certainly better than GT5 was by a long shot. And even though GT6 improved on 5 in many respects, it's career mode is so half assed compared to GT4 on the PS2 that Polyphony should be ashamed. They were phoning it in big time on the PS3.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Also, the microtransactions in GT6 were hidden in some menu no one would use. You could play through the entire game not even knowing it was possible to buy cash. I don't really have a problem with that.

Half the trout I wanted in the game they wanted me to pay for. /shrug

I was not pleased. I didn't put a 1/6th of the time into GT5 as I had the previous entries and I didn't even bother with 6.

Forza isn't perfect, but it's really been knocking Gran Turismo around IMO.

EDIT: And I agree that we don't need 45 versions of the same car. An example of each generation car, and perhaps a few special models different enough to be different (no special models that only had paint and body kits), need apply.

An example:
My mother has an 8th Gen Mugen Honda Civic Si. It has much lighter (and obnoxiously expensive) Ray's Engineering Volk wheels made special for Mugen (http://www.mugen-power.com/english/philosophy/08.html), a Mugen body kit, a more track oriented suspension package with all types of Mugen badging, a higher flowing Mugen exhaust system, and a unique paint color. Some other little odds and ends. It's a neat package, they only made around 1,000 total, and it's a blast to drive.

It's straight line performance isn't all that much greater around the track than the standard Honda Civic Si of that generation though. It's quicker, but probably not by a big enough margin to make a difference. Since everyone in the game is going to buy obscenely expensive wheels, an exhaust system, and all that other stuff they'll basically wind up making the Mugen Si anyway.

It's not different enough performance wise to warrant appearing in the game outside of the fact that it was rare.

Now maybe if they'd made a Civic with a the J series V6 or something. Or something obvious like the Civic BTCC race car. Certainly those would be worth considering.

[Mirage]

Also, the microtransactions in GT6 were hidden in some menu no one would use. You could play through the entire game not even knowing it was possible to buy cash. I don't really have a problem with that.

Half the trout I wanted in the game they wanted me to pay for. /shrug


No idea what you're talking about. The career race payouts are decent, at least with a login bonus. Many seasonal events drown you in cash. Talking about GT6 here. GT5's problem wasn't with the money, but the completely idiotic level shit.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I'm talking GT5. Never played 6. I suppose we have a difference of opinion. Chances are I didn't play the game long enough, but between the constant time consuming updates every time I wanted to play the game, and the licensing process, progress was abysmally slow and I just stopped playing.

[Mirage]

You could probably reach and clear the last IA championship over a single weekend if you choose the cars you buy carefully. The races are all pretty easy, with the only real challenge being found in the karting events, but you don't need to finish all events in each license category to advance to the next license anyway.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

No thanks. :)

[Mirage]

I'm not saying you should, just that it's not very time consuming.

[Bolivar]

You're right Bolivar. From what I played of the latest Forza at Christmas when my sister and her husband were here with there Xbone, it's better than GT in many ways. Certainly better than GT5 was by a long shot. And even though GT6 improved on 5 in many respects, it's career mode is so half assed compared to GT4 on the PS2 that Polyphony should be ashamed. They were phoning it in big time on the PS3.

I'm sorry man - I actually meant the complete opposite of what you interpreted. I got a chance to play GT5 Prologue and Forza 3 with wheels almost side by side at a PAX Prime and the difference is night and day. Forza has nowhere near the level of fidelity and attention to detail as Gran Turismo, even the wheel integration wasn't at all as tight as it is in GT. I just don't understand the other side in this argument and your post is kinda emblematic of why. Everyone who bashes GT5 or claims Forza is better never actually articulates why and, even if they do, it never has anything to do with the actual gameplay. Just look at what Sharky is complaining about - too many similar cars when the game had rally racing, NASCAR, pick up trucks, 1970s volkswagon vans, World War II jeeps, an entire section dedicated to Nurburgring and go karts. Forza is literally 1/10 the game Gran Turismo is and even when they do get that stuff - they sell it to you as DLC (lol).

The saddest part is that they're now advertising Forza 6 with features GT has had for generations. If you really think Polyphony was phoning it in, I'd hate to know what you think Turn 10 has been doing.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I just don't understand the other side in this argument and your post is kinda emblematic of why. Everyone who bashes GT5 or claims Forza is better never actually articulates why and, even if they do, it never has anything to do with the actual gameplay. Just look at what Sharky is complaining about - too many similar cars when the game had rally racing, NASCAR, pick up trucks, 1970s volkswagon vans, World War II jeeps, an entire section dedicated to Nurburgring and go karts.


Okay, since you missed the other thread I'll give you a pass. Here's what I'm talking about that I had issues with while playing GT5 or reading about GT6. Understand that I have not played GT6, and I might be pleasantly surprised. These comparisons were from GT5 vs. the Forza from that time. (Forza 4?)


Gran Turismo. Create real, effective car damage. Update the sounds for most of the cars. They still sound like they did in GT2 half the time. Bring back some of the original fantasy tracks, and expand the amount of real world tracks available. Introduce a deeper, more realistic modification subsection.

All of this stuff is seriously lacking, and makes the game feel really pretty, but otherwise dated.

Take all of this and make it available through playing the game, not paid for DLC.

Also, driver AI or rather perhaps it's about time they actually had some. The AI cars are pathetic. Perhaps a system like some fighting games have created where AI for drivers is based on online profiles of real, talented players.

I've heard GT6 expanded the GT5 content a good bit, but with that came a lack of polish. Yes they had a lot, but no it wasn't the finely honed series I've come to expect. Once again, this is what I have read.

The reason I liked Forza more (outside of the most recent one which was also DLC heavy) was that even though it had a more narrow focus in both car and track selection, I felt it was narrowed down for a purpose.

The cars sound like they should, they look like they should, and they drive like they should. Inside and out. Each car had it's own personal showcase highlighting its more famous features. I've driven enough cars as speed in my time to know how a fair amount of them should feel. Forza accomplishes the immersion factor way more than Gran Turismo. You can create controller set-ups where you have a real clutch button, and it's sensitive. For the true driving experience of many older cars, that's a must. They don't have paddle shifters, but if I hop in a '78 Datsun Z in Gran Turismo it's going to shift like it has a sequential dogbox with straight cut race gears. That just doesn't feel right.

I also appreciate Forza's modification ability much more. You have the ability to do any modification from Gran Turismo (as far as I can tell) along with serious changes GT doesn't have provisions for such as complete motor swaps.

As for tracks, I simply liked the variety more. They had less tracks, but they were more varied geographically. There were many forgotten tracks in Europe and North America that finally got some recognition in Forza.

Looking at GT6 vs. the current Forza, it certainly looks like GT has stepped up the game. If their content quality can match the quantity then I can certainly forgive some concessions like sound, AI, and crash damage, but the series has also been around much longer.

Like I said, a lot of complaints I had are ones I've had since GT2. While I like lots of content, I'd honestly prefer less content done to a higher standard.

[Mirage]

The poor sounds is one of the reasons I want them to cut out the old "standard". I imagine it is an enormous job to make sure over 1200 cars have the correct sounds, and it'd be a much easier task to handle if there were less than half as many cars in the game.

That might not matter much for the next GT, however, as they are working on a system that supposedly can automatically and dynamically generate sounds based on an engine's (and exhaust, intake, etc) physical layout, meaning that every car will get the correct sound as long as the engine configuration of it is known, and that the car sounds will change as you tune them in a much more realistic fashion. Currently, the only real audio changes from tuning is an added transmission whine if you change that, an added turbo suck/blowoff sound if you put a turbo on something that didn't come with one, and a different exhaust tone if you change exhausts.

This system is being tested on some of the newer the VGT cars that are in GT6 now, and in most cases it sounds pretty good and also pretty unique for each car.

This approach is very different from how it's been done in the past, where you record audio samples of each car, and simply play those back while weaving them together as needed. I hope it works out.

[Bolivar]

Also, driver AI or rather perhaps it's about time they actually had some. The AI cars are pathetic. Perhaps a system like some fighting games have created where AI for drivers is based on online profiles of real, talented players.

I've heard GT6 expanded the GT5 content a good bit, but with that came a lack of polish. Yes they had a lot, but no it wasn't the finely honed series I've come to expect. Once again, this is what I have read.

The reason I liked Forza more (outside of the most recent one which was also DLC heavy) was that even though it had a more narrow focus in both car and track selection, I felt it was narrowed down for a purpose.

The cars sound like they should, they look like they should, and they drive like they should. Inside and out. Each car had it's own personal showcase highlighting its more famous features. I've driven enough cars as speed in my time to know how a fair amount of them should feel. Forza accomplishes the immersion factor way more than Gran Turismo. You can create controller set-ups where you have a real clutch button, and it's sensitive. For the true driving experience of many older cars, that's a must. They don't have paddle shifters, but if I hop in a '78 Datsun Z in Gran Turismo it's going to shift like it has a sequential dogbox with straight cut race gears. That just doesn't feel right.

I also appreciate Forza's modification ability much more. You have the ability to do any modification from Gran Turismo (as far as I can tell) along with serious changes GT doesn't have provisions for such as complete motor swaps.

As for tracks, I simply liked the variety more. They had less tracks, but they were more varied geographically. There were many forgotten tracks in Europe and North America that finally got some recognition in Forza.

Looking at GT6 vs. the current Forza, it certainly looks like GT has stepped up the game. If their content quality can match the quantity then I can certainly forgive some concessions like sound, AI, and crash damage, but the series has also been around much longer.

Like I said, a lot of complaints I had are ones I've had since GT2. While I like lots of content, I'd honestly prefer less content done to a higher standard.

The sound is definitely in Forza's favor but having played Drive Club, whose sound was praised as being the best yet, I kind of have to roll my eyes when someone acts as if that can balance out how bereft of content and features Forza otherwise is. I get that having a clutch might be a big deal for you, but this is honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone say Forza has better physics or handling than Gran Turismo, let alone track variety. I know you admitted playing very little of GT5 and none of GT6 but you're really making it seem like you've already made up your mind for whatever reason.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Well, as I said, I'm going to take a look at GT6 because it's on a system I already own, and because it looks like they may have addressed some issues.

I played GT5 enough to know I was rather disappointed with the lack of progress however. I bought the game, and I put enough time into it to know that I simply wasn't impressed. Neither physics engine is perfect, but for use with a controller at least, the feeling of cars on track at speed felt more real to me in Forza than GT5. Since I have legitimate seat time to compare to, I do have some experience here.

Combined with real consequences from damage, or over-revving, etc, and better computer car AI, it felt more real overall.

[Ayen]

This thread reminds me that I need to play more GT games. I only played GT2. I feel so old and out of the loop.

[Formalhaut]

I played GT4, and GT2 was a fixture of my house when I was much younger. That was okay, though I remember not actually being that good at them, particularly once you get past the early, easy stages. I'm not a car nut like Sharky so perhaps that goes someway in explaining that :p

[Zanmato]

A good selection of cars is more important than an extreme total number of cars. We don't need 10 miatas and 30 skylines.

Also, the microtransactions in GT6 were hidden in some menu no one would use. You could play through the entire game not even knowing it was possible to buy cash. I don't really have a problem with that.

That's why the games like Need For Speed were very successful, especially NFS: Most Wanted (2005). :3