Suikoden 3 coming to PSN Classics!

[NeoCracker]

http://nichegamer.com/2015/06/suikoden-iii-returns-as-a-ps2-classic-this-week/

Guess I'll be able to play this one now!

[Wolf Kanno]

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[Raistlin]

As any RPG fan should. Some of the mechanics of the game haven't aged well, but it remains an epic storyline with great characters. It has a good mix of challenges throughout the game, along with the best major battle system in the series.

Plus, there's something satisfying about watching a mounted Hugo with Fury runes just destroy everything.

[Ffamran mied Bunansa]

It's perfect timing, I just finished the first two games for the first time.

[Pete for President]

I'm still working on 2 :0

[Shauna]

US only?

US only.

[Bright Shield]

Awesome.

I like the multiple view points a lot.

[Pumpkin]

I already have a hard copy, but still awesome! The plays

THE PLAYS

And yes, the opening is awesome

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Favorite Suikoden is still favorite Suikoden.

I think after they nailed for classic RPG formula with #2, they did a lot of effective, refreshing changes with the story telling of 3.

[Vyk]

This all makes me really interested. I've had the first two and never played them. I got a generic fantasy vibe from the first couple of games. But watching that opening, and seeing a little tribal influence mixed in, makes me a lot more interested. Maybe I'll start with this one, and if I enjoy it, then I'll use that enjoyment to make my potential enjoyment of the previous two kinda more-so than it otherwise would have been, or something

[Formalhaut]

I've heard of the Suikoden games, but I've never played them before. What's their general premise and why should I start playing them?

[Wolf Kanno]

I've heard of the Suikoden games, but I've never played them before. What's their general premise and why should I start playing them?

Suikoden is a political drama that revolves around the history of various kingdoms and more importantly the 27 True Runes, which are magical sentient artifacts that control the very elements of existence. These runes are often the cause or focal point of the various wars that plague the world due to having tremendous power and granting their user eternal youth and living forever (they can still be killed though) which many people seek. What makes the series so appealing is the global feel of the games. Each title is a separate story but the ramifications of the conflicts tend to be felt in the later titles and slowly the series has expanded a really beautiful world, also characters from one entry tend to pop up in another or at least their descendents/ancestor does. In each game the player gets to control an army and has to recruit 108 special characters to their side to help give them aid in battles or to build up their fortresses. The game is also unique for having three different battle systems with normal RPG turn based battles, one-on-one Rock./paper/scissor style duels and expansive war battles that change gameplay-wise in each installment.

The first game deals with Tir McDohl, the only son of the Scarlet Moon Empire's infamous Six Great Generals. He finally joins the imperial army and slowly comes to find out that it has become corrupt and many places outside the capital are suffering from evil bureaucrats or the machinations of the Emperor's favorite Court Magician Windy, who is using the fact she looks like his dead wife to rule the empire from behind the throne. Through certain circumstances, Tir becomes the bearer of the Soul Eater, a cursed True Rune which feeds on the sould of those close to it. Windy seeks the rune from him and he escapes into the hands of the Rebel army which he eventually becomes the leader of and strikes back against the corrupt empire.

The second title involves two childhood friends named Riou and Jowy who are members of the Highland Kingdoms child soldier brigade. On their last night, the camp is attacked and gets slaughtered by Highland soldiers disguised as Jowstown City-States soldiers, and uncover that their own Prince Luca Blight had planned the attack because his insane thirst for revenge wanted him to keep the war going. The two escape but become fugitives since they know too much. They flee to the City-States where they join a mercenary band and both find the True Rune of Beginnings which splits in half and gives each a power. They try to get the City-States to band together to stop Luca Blight but years of infighting and indifference leave the City-States easy targets for the Highland Army. At this point Riou and Jowy part ways as they both find their own different means of ending the war, with Riou choosing to unite the City-States under himself while Jowy takes a more... Delita Herial way of things.

Suikoden III take's place in the Grassland which fought a bloody war with the Harmonian Kingdom (think fantasy Roman Empire) 50 years ago and won thanks to the Flame Champion and his Fire Bringers. In that time the Zexen Federation had opened up on the coastlines and finds itself in almost constant conflict with the Grassland tribes. The story revolves around multiple perspectives who are on different sides of the conflict. Hugo is the son of Chief Lucia of the Karaya Clan, who is tasked with taking a peace agreement to the Zexen Capital and instead watches as the war re-erupts anew when the Zexen Knights lay seige on his home. Chris is the young captain of the Zexen Knights, who is still trying to adjust to her new position. She wants answers about her missing father, deals with the greedy Zexen Council, and tries to come to terms with the brutality of the war. Geddoe is a mercenary in the employ of the Harmonian Empire who gets a mission to track down the Flame Champion and his True Fire Rune. Geddoe has mysterious connections to the Grasslands but stays impartial to the most recent conflict. Thomas is the bastard son of a council member of the Zexen Federation, seeking out his father after his mother death, his father tries to get him out of his hair by making him Lord of a castle in the north, on the border of the Grasslands and Zexen Federation. The castle is in terrible disrepair and Thomas must come up with a way to get revenue back into the castle before the whole place gets abandoned from neglect.

Suikoden IV takes place 150 years before the first game and deals with the birth of the Island Nations to the south of the Scarlet Moon Empire. Lazlo is an orphan raised by the wealthy Vingerhut family of Razril and has joined the young lord Snowe in becoming a knight for the Gaian Dukedom. One day while hunting pirates, Lazlo confront a fearsome pirate who possesses the True Rune of Punishment and Forgiveness, a rune which tends to end the lives of it's bearer rather quickly. Lazlo is involved in a misunderstanding that gives him the rune but also has him exiled from the island. He eventually winds up on the island of Obel which is preparing for an invasion by the Kooluk Empire to the north which is trying to expand it's territories due to losing border battles with the Scarlet Moon Empire. Unable to unite the islands in time, the Kooluk start taking them over one-by-one, unaware that the invasion is a front for the true objective of getting the Rune of Punishment. Lalzo must unite the isalnd nations to stop the Kooluk Empire while also resisting the urge to use his Rune in the fear it may kill him.

Suikoden V takes place a few years before the first game on the southern continent in the Queendom of Falena. The young Prince Freyjadour is ambassador for the palace along with his Aunt Sialeeds who bear terrible witness to the consequences of the Lordlake Uprising from three years prior when the Prince's mother used the True Sun Rune to scorch the town and turn it into a desert overnight. The rune is slowly driving her mad but no one can do anything without fear of her losing her temper and killing them. The palace tries to get her mind off the troubles of her Queendom by preparing for the Sacred Games, a gladiatorial contest that decides who will marry the future Queen. The Queendom finds itself being torn apart by the Noble Families who try to undermine each other for more political control of the Queendom and whom both hope to win the Sacred Games to gain more sway on the palace. The Barows family uses their money and influence to gain favor and want to start trade with the Queendom's long standing enemy of Armes to better their pockets. The Godwins want a more militaristic Queendom that would expand it's borders and be more pro-military. One thing leads to another and one of the families wins the Sacred Games under dubious cirumstances and then takes over the Palace trying to gain the power of the Sun Rune. The Prince now finds himself having to build an army to fight against the legitimacy of his sister's betrothal and the Queendom becomes embroiled in a Civil War.

Most of these are really paraphrases of the plots. I mean Suikoden II and V have much more involved and complex plots that are difficult to sum up so bear with.

There are also three side games and two "reboot" entries. The Suikogaiden Games are Visual Novels that take place during and after the events of Suikoden II and involve Nash, a member of the Holwing Voice Guild ( Harmonia's Assassin Guild) as he watches the events unfold in Suikoden II.

Suikoden Tactics (Rhapsodia in Japan) takes place before and after the events of Suikoden IV and fills in a few dangling plot threads from the game while creating new ones... It deals with Kyril, a spy from the Scarlet Moon Kingdom who is investigating the Island Nations Rune Cannon technology and finds themselves embroiled with a runaway Princess and the internal politics of the Kooluk Empire. The game is a Tactical RPG simialr to FFTactics or Tactics Ogre with some elements borrowed from Disgaea and Fire Emblem.

The two "reboots" keep the whole "collect 108 Stars" deal but take place in completely different worlds with no connection to one another. The PSP entry is actually a time travel story and the DS one is just... odd.

I can answer more questions if need be.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

I just found this game and bought a hard copy. I should have waited another couple of weeks!

I hope the other games show up on PSN since they are a bit on the pricey side.

[Shauna]

Just an FYI, Formy, as a lowly EU person, we can only get our hands on 1, 2, 4, 5 and the spinoff game, Tactics. Also Tierkeis if you really want.

You can get the first two fairly cheap on the PSN store, so if you are curious, it isn't too much hassle to get a hold of them.

[Mirage]

Aaand bought it.

[Vyk]

Aaand bought it.

It's not showing up in our PS Classics list, nor when we search for it. Somehow it doesn't exist on PSN yet

[Formalhaut]

Hmm, it does sound interesting. Once I chow down through my backlog, I'll definitely look into it, thanks Kanno! I have Pumpkin's Character Tournament also giving me new game ideas as well.

[Mirage]

Aaand bought it.

It's not showing up in our PS Classics list, nor when we search for it. Somehow it doesn't exist on PSN yet

I searched for "suik" on the PSN store and it popped up right away for me. I was using the regular european store and I live in Norway. I have it installed already :p.

Strangely, there is no way for me to even browse PS2 classics or PS1 classics anymore. I have to search for individual titles.

[Shauna]

...I am impressed that this is on the EU Store.

Why don't they hurry the heck up and release all those other NA only titles?!

In other news... Purchasing things.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I hope all the European members enjoy it! I think it's a real treat, and a great addition to the series.

[Vyk]

I guess it finally showed up an hour or two ago. Which means Europe got it first. Cool. More likely everyone was getting it at some arbitrary time. Like the o'clock in each time zone. But I was at work. I guess my girlfriend grabbed it for me and has it downloaded already. Awesome

[Raistlin]

WK gave a very thorough plot overview, but I would like to emphasize the Suikoden series has created a fantastic world that gets you really interested and invested. You see how things affect not only the characters on a micro level, but also how nations are changed at the macro level. The plots are very mature and political; while the games have plenty of fantasy references and overarching themes (mostly surrounding the 27 True Runes), the major plots in each game are political dramas of intrigue and betrayal.

For those of you purchasing this game, I'd recommend not starting here. While one of my favorite games in the series, there's some characters and plot points you won't fully appreciate without having played at least Suikoden II (which in turn is better played after SI, though I didn't and have no regrets). It's also one of the longest entries. I'd suggest starting with SI, though I think it'd also be interesting to start with IV and play chronologically (IV-V-I-II-III).

[Vyk]

This game is weird​. Triangle is the cancel button

[NeoCracker]

This game is weird​. Triangle is the cancel button

The weirdest control scheme I recall in a game is Breath of Fire III using Square in order to open the menu. o_O

[Mirage]

square for menu isn't strange. suikoden 2 also uses triangle for cancel. in 1 it was circle. Worst thing is that you can't re-map them.

[Fynn]

I only have a Vita. Not PS3 or PS4. So fat chance I'll get to play it. At least I'll get to try out I and II.

[Mirage]

PS4 wouldn't have helped. Well, unless it is on the streaming service but that shit sucks.

[Vyk]

Good thing the Vita is still getting lots of love from Atlus and XSeed, so there's plenty of other interesting things coming out this year. Not that you'll be short for games anyway, but yeah

[Del Murder]

What improvements did S3 make over S2?

[Wolf Kanno]

What improvements did S3 make over S2?

It actually changed a lot of things.

The game has three main protagonists with their own story that intertwines with the other characters. While you have to play through all three scenarios to get to the final two chapters, you can play them in any order you want. Additionally, there is a fourth playable character named Thomas who has his own story but it's options, a silly scenario to switch your character with Koroku the dog, so you can wander around the castle and hear interesting bits of info on characters you normally wouldn't get, and collecting all 108 stars nets you a final character scenario that I won't reveal because it's too good of a secret. This is probably the game's best selling point as it is fascinating to watch certain scenes unfold from different perspectives. The story is about seeing a war from different angles, the opposing sides of Chris and Hugo as well as the outsider perspectives of Thomas and Geddoe. In the last two chapters, you'll pick one of the three main characters to be your personal main characters and the game slightly alters depending on which you choose with a total of four endings including the 108 fifth character ending.

The game is the first 3D entry in the series and while the locations are typical Suikoden drab (well compared to FF) the character models are pretty good.

The game introduces a new and controversial battle system that incorporates 3D space. Basically your party moves around the map but spells, Unite attacks and rune attacks have area of effect (think Chrono Trigger) where they can do more damage if more enemies are in the area being attacked. What's different is that spells tend to not differentiate friend from foe, so you need to be careful with certain spells and runes because you might do more damage than good. Also, spells have charge times like FFIV/X-2 so it's important to time them as well.

Due to technical limitations and the staffs inexperience with 3D games, battles play out differently thanks to a buddy system. Basically you keep six person parties but they are sectioned off into three sets of two characters. Where this gets a bit controversial is that if you are using fancy runes or Unite attacks, the non-participating character just auto-attacks. So if you pair two mages in a group and have one use their fire rune, the other mage just auto attacks, so it's important to pair characters properly to maximize their effectiveness. The buddy system also introduces a Mount system where certain characters with animal companions can mount them and become one unit with shared attack power and defense, though both characters take damage if attacked.

The game also introduces a nifty Skill system where each character can have certain combat qualities increased. You can raise a fighters chance to critical hit, a mages effectiveness to use magic and reduce casting time, and their are unique skills only certain characters can learn. Most characters have specialties but you can add additional skills to them for customization and the cool thing is that if you don't like the build you're doing, as long as it's not unique skill, you can erase it from the list and get all the skill points back from it to give to the new skill you want to unlock. So if you dropped 200 points into Attack and decided you wanted to give the character the accuracy skill instead but don't have room for it, you can erase the attack skill and get the 200 points to put into the accuracy skill.

War battles changed to a system similar to Ogre Battle where you set up units and simply choose to have them attack, defend, or run away and the A.I. will determine what the characters actually do in battle (like casting magic or attacking specific targets) what;s interesting about this is that it incorporates elements of FFVI's Coliseum by utilizing the actual party members so the way you build them tends to affect how they work in battle. Battles themselves work like an odd chess board with you taking positions and trying to flank enemies and cut off their ability to run.

New minigames for the castle like the Theater, horse racing, and new card games.

Ducks
http://home.eyesonff.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65025&stc=1

[Pumpkin]

The areas are actually pretty good, I thought. I don't remember a FF duck clan village!

ALSO YOU GET TO CAST THEM IN PLAYS AND IT IS ONE OF THE BEST MINI-GAMES EVER

[Vyk]

The "world map" (read, just a map, no overworld) is right out of any/all strategy rpg. Just dots on a map. I got to a new area, and there's dots interspersed that section things off where you have to run around as you would on a normal overworld where you get into random encounters. Not sure why they didn't just make the overworld traversable. It's ... different. But this is the first Suikoden I've fired up (I have the first two, but not really done anything with them), so maybe they're all that way. Just weird having something like that in a traditional JRPG, rather than a strategy rpg

[Pumpkin]

That's the only one with a map like that

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah, the other four games have traditional JRPG world maps. S3 is also an early PS2 game, so things like FFXII and DQVIII were still pipe dreams. I guess they could have done it like FFX but some of the transitions would have felt awkward.

[Raistlin]

What improvements did S3 make over S2?

To echo/add on to WK: 3D, three distinct main characters with different perspectives, better developed castle (some of the theater plays are hilarious), new skill system (which adds a new level of development/customization for characters), and a better major battle system where leveling up your characters actually has an effect. It adds a treasure boss system to get some of the better items/armor. Another plus is that there are "optional" boss battles (or I should say "optionally-winnable" boss battles) where you can lose and the story continues, but are also possible to win; a couple of these were very difficult my first time through the game. It's very different from S1 and S2 -- including being substantially longer.

To be fair, it also has some detriments compared to S2, mostly due to the new transition to 3D with a team apparently inexperienced with 3D. A fixed camera is awkward in some areas until you get used to using the minimap, and your characters move very slow, or at least it seems like it at times (partially helped by a low encounter rate). You'll be quite happy to get the Blinking Mirror. The fire rune becomes mostly useless thanks to AoE spells damaging your own party, and the buddy system definitely takes some getting used to.