Let us discuss the awesome taht is Suikoden 3! (Mark all spoilers I am just starting)

[NeoCracker]

I was doing a Suikoden thread a ways back when I'd finally played the first couple and Gaiden Vol 1, so now that I am playing III (My PC couldn't run a PS2 emulator well at the time. My new one can, but I bought it on PSN so no need to Emulate. :p)

So, I'll be updating thoughts on Suikoden III here, and lets all discuss it!

Finished Hugo chapter 1 so far, just starting Chris.

The Camera in this game is fucking atrocious, and AoE Spells seem a bit pointless considering the more sporadic nature of how you move around the field now and can end up hurting your own guys with them.

Otherwise combat is still pretty decent. I love how Lucia is Hugo's mom, I was rather happy to see her again after her story in 2.

So talk Suikoden now!

[Rez09]

Yeah, I recall Fire Magic in particular being too much of a double edged sword unless you had super high affinity with it for my tastes. I also thought the castle situation was a bit strange in the game, as was the lack of Pesmerga anywhere in the title considering Yuber was still hanging around.

That said, Suikoden III has my favorite war system in the series, and I thought the multiple story perspectives were an interesting touch. I also seem to remember this being the title that introduced 'rare' monsters in certain areas with potentially awesome loot, which is a feature I really love.

And I agree it was awesome to see Lucia again after 2, especially since it was completely unexpected. :D

[Wolf Kanno]

I do enjoy Suikoden III, I actually just finished another playthrough of Suikoden V just a month ago or so. Great franchise, glad to see your back to work on it.

[NeoCracker]

This is going a bit slowly as I've been busy, but I am not digging the combat in this as much as I was Suikoden 2. (I actually like the Strategic battle less as well.)

[Pumpkin]

This was my first Suikoden

MAKE SURE YOU DO THE PLAYS WHEN YOU GET FURTHER

[Wolf Kanno]

This is going a bit slowly as I've been busy, but I am not digging the combat in this as much as I was Suikoden 2. (I actually like the Strategic battle less as well.)

The game has my least favorite War Battle system in the series, but I love the skill system and how it does really change combat if you give it any attention. Also don't be fooled by the teachers, their ranking of a characters aptitude for a skill actually regards how much the skill will cost to advance a rank, not how good they are with a skill. While most characters will rank low with a skill they have poor aptitude with, some actually can get up to S Rank, it just costs a ton of SP to max it out. Thomas and Piccolo are probably the game's two biggest offenders of this.

[NeoCracker]

I'd already figured out the point cost thing, seemed pretty obvious. :p

Curerntly doing Geddoe's chapter, came across a nutty little Troll Dragon when doing a bit of grinding. Only killed Ace, which was fine since I just wanted to level Geddoe and Queen to handle a certain optional fight taht kicked my ass my first attempt.

But like hell was I going to just advance the game and NOT win that fight!

[Raistlin]

I really didn't like S3's major battle system at first, but the more I've played it the more I've come to appreciate it -- to the point where it's now my favorite of the series. S1, 4, and 5 all have "use this special attack/unit that the enemy's attack/unit can't counter" gimmick that makes you about unstoppable (S5 is more frantically paced, but you get so many damn special moves that most battles still won't be any trouble). S2 is, of course, "attack randomly and hope you get good dice rolls, because fuck me if I can tell when you're going to do damage or not."

In S3, there's a little bit of strategy when it comes to cover positions, and how you level up and equip characters in the game actually impacts how the characters fare in battle. Yes, it is frustrating when Chris uses her stupid fixed rune over and over instead of just attacking, and a certain villain will be a royal pain in the ass in future war battles, but I appreciate the system as a whole nonetheless.

[NeoCracker]

Question, if you fuck up the horse count for Kathy is there a chance to re-do it?

[Wolf Kanno]

I believe so, Suikoden III isn't as bad as other entries when it comes to recruiting people. You may have to leave the area and try again though.

[Raistlin]

Question, if you fuck up the horse count for Kathy is there a chance to re-do it?

I'm pretty sure, but I think you have to leave the area, and possibly for a while. It's a bit of a pain.

But like WK said, S3 is overall the easiest entry to get all 108 stars. It helps that a majority are automatic, and most of the rest are simply talk-to-and-recruit characters.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think the toughest character to recruit in SIII was Landis, and only because there is a random factor to it that makes it annoying.

[NeoCracker]

Cleared out everyones chapter 2, and I'm torn between Geddoe and Chris as whose story I like more.

I'm edging on Geddoe, but I guess chapter 3 will decide! Also, Chris without the armor? :love:

Anyway, am I the only one who thinks it's odd there is a girl named Chris and a boy named Lulu?

[Wolf Kanno]

Geddoe and Chris definitely have the better stories. Geddoe gets some really cool plot twists in his third chapter.

[NeoCracker]

Okay, so I'm about to beat Chris Chapter 3, and I am marking my prediction for the spoiler (I only have Geddoe 3 left to do after this.)

I already know Geddoe knew the Flame Champion from his scenes at the end of his chapter, and he knows that one dude from Hugo's village (I forget his name). I Think he was the third guy with Flame Champion and Geddoe. The most recent villagers revealed Chris's Father is Still alive, and had fought along side the Flame Champion, and lives due to the True Water Rune. The guy from Hugo's Village is clearly Karayan, so I don't believe it would be him (Though He likely also possess a True Rune considering he's still alive.) So, the holder of the True Water Rune and Chris's Father is really Geddoe!

See if I"m right.

[Raistlin]

Geddoe is the best, and his chapter 3 is really good. Also, fuck Landis. It took me like 45 minutes to recruit him the first time.

And your prediction amused me.

[Pumpkin]

And your prediction amused me.

This

I actually didn't like Geddoe :shobon: To each their own though!

[NeoCracker]

...Welp, guess I reversed the guess. :p (Just saw True Lightning Ruin)

Is there going to be a good explanation for why Jimba looks like a Karayan? :P

Also, Pretty sure Chris gets the True Water Rune, Hugo gets True Flame.

[Raistlin]

I'm not sure we need spoilers in this thread for anyone but you, so I think you're safe not to spoiler things you've seen or are asking about.

As for #1: Beyond that you were supposed to think he's Karayan? He looks Karayan in the sense that he wears Karayan clothes and is tanned. In flashbacks with armor, it's less obvious. There were hints that Jimba was not (originally) Karayan as well.

[NeoCracker]

I'm not sure we need spoilers in this thread for anyone but you, so I think you're safe not to spoiler things you've seen or are asking about.

As for #1: Beyond that you were supposed to think he's Karayan? He looks Karayan in the sense that he wears Karayan clothes and is tanned. In flashbacks with armor, it's less obvious. There were hints that Jimba was not (originally) Karayan as well.

...So Karayans aren't immediately distinguishable because that is their natural skin color? Seriously, are they all like that just because they are tanned? And for some reason the Chisan Tribe just.... isn't tanned? I honest to god thought the darker skin tone was a Karayan thing. XD

[Wolf Kanno]

The tan skin is a Karayan physical trait, but Jimba is noticeably lighter skins than everyone else in the village. I believe NPCs in Hugo's starting Chapter mention he's not a native but is an honorary member of the clan thanks to Lucia's family influence.

Have you done Thomas yet?

[NeoCracker]

Yeah, I finished Thomas before I started n the chatper 3's.

And I guess I missed that NPC's dialogue. :p

Edit:

Okay, I hate that whoever takes flame Champs title gets the True Fire Rune, and if Geddoe takes it, the True Lighting changes hands. WHY CAN'T I JUST TAKE THE TITLE DAMMIT!? (I'm trying to decide between Chris and Geddoe)

Edit2: In the end, It didn't seem to make sense that Geddoe would be the one to take the mantle, so I opted for Chris.

[Raistlin]

Yeah, I've had both Geddoe and Hugo as my FCs (Geddoe as my favorite of the 3, Hugo due to being the "true" FC), and it does suck that with Geddoe, you basically lose out on the awesome True Lightning Rune. Although Geddoe is also the most competent with True Fire, so is probably the only FC where you could actually use it (in combination with Fire Rings and Fire Sealing runes). Hugo, of course, is the most easily justified from a story perspective, means Geddoe keeps True Lightning and Chris True Water, and I've found his chapters less boring in subsequent playthroughs than I did the first time. He also fits the basic mold of Suikoden heroes. But you'll never actually use True Fire with him, because it sucks and he's a great physical fighter.

The main reason I would ever choose Chris is to use her horse on the world map. Walking around in S3 was not my favorite activity.

[NeoCracker]

Got Landis after one fight in the forest. :p

[Raistlin]

Fucker.

Actually I've gotten him pretty easily my 2nd and 3rd playthroughs. I think I just got very unlucky the first time.

[NeoCracker]

Just grabbing up all the stars I can right now. Current set up:

Chris (True Fire, Pheonix)/Aila (Mother Earth/Shield)
Emily (Lion/Haziness)/Nei (Water/Jangleur)
Edge (Lighting/SunBeam)/Sanae Y. (Sickle-Weasle/LIghtining

Hugo and Geddeo aren't selectable for my party for some reason (I assume I\for story reasons, I'm about ot go see what the masked man is up to in the Great Hallow Undergroun), but Geddeo replaces Sanae Y. once I have him back.

[Raistlin]

The other two main characters aren't available for your party for much of chapters 4 and 5, which is understandable because Geddoe + True Lightning is basically unfair. And Emily is an absolute beast.

[Wolf Kanno]

For balancing reasons the other two heroes can't be used in FC party cause they would bork an already easy game.

Actually Hugo is the best with the True Fire Rune, while Geddoe has a higher affinity for it, Hugo can actually equip all the gear that raises his affinity with the Rune to something like S+ if memory serves me correct. This allows him to usually cast the TFR spells at the beginning of battles, avoiding the whole "friendly fire" issue it has. The only nice thing about giving Chris the TFR is that the True Water Rune doesn't go to waste. Chris, in a subversion of this usual trope, is the crappiest mage of the three main characters because she's the Heavy.

[Raistlin]

There's other equipment besides the Wizard Hat and Fire Rings? And I never bothered farming the treasure bosses that much, but couldn't you slap a bunch of Fire Magic Rings on Geddoe to get up to S? I think it'd take just one Wizard Hat plus two rings, as he's naturally a B+.

You could theoretically get a good fire magic affinity with Hugo with enough grinding for equipment, but if I want an easy game with Hugo as the FC, I'll just slap on some Fury Runes.

[Wolf Kanno]

If memory serves me correct, there is a piece of Armor that only Hugo's character class can wear which can bump up his Fire Magic. Frankly he's the best choice because Geddoe is too invaluable with his True Thunder Rune and unlike Chris, he's isn't horrible with magic meaning you can actually get some mileage out of it.

[Raistlin]

Well yeah, Hugo's the best choice for FC for a lot of reasons, both for the story and gameplay. His ability to use the True Rune of Self-Immolation doesn't rank that highly.

[Wolf Kanno]

If you get his casting high enough, you can bombard enemies in the first round before the rest of the party can act unless you stack your team with speedy characters like Watari and Ayame. There are a lot of ways around the friendly fire issue in the game.

[NeoCracker]

Yeah, I learned that pretty early game. Fire Rune can be really solid for an opener. Though even I'd prefer to send off some thundery magic. :p

I seem to have all the stars now (At least that are collectable for now), so I've just been hitting hidden chests (I know I can get a thunder off Siren, I just stopped paying attention during the boss fight and got myself killed, didn't save the THunder. :( ) at the start of chapter 5, leveling so me of the weaker dudes in case of Large scale battle.

[Raistlin]

Sure it's a decent opening spell, though certainly not as game-breaking as True Lightning. To each his own. As I said, if I want an easy game, Hugo/Fubar + Fury Runes is easier to get than a bunch of +fire equipment to use the higher-level True Fire spells, and is arguably more powerful. I guess you could do both if you wanted a really easy game.

One of the best things about Suikoden compared to, say, some FF games, is how easy it is to level up low-level characters late in the game. With a couple of characters from your main party, a group of 3-4 newbies can reach level 50 very quickly in the FC Hideaway, which is more than enough for the late-game war battles.

[Raistlin]

Have you beaten this yet? Or did you do what I did at first and get distracted right after getting to chapter 5? :p

[NeoCracker]

Basically. I fucked up and didn't pay attention to party selection, got killed by Yuber, and last time I saved was back before losing the True lIghting Rune. :p

[NeoCracker]

So I've been wondering wehre the fuck to find a Cyclone Rune, so I finally googled it.

Turns out you can get one, and ONLY one in the game, from a lady in an attic in Chisa Village. You have to climb a ladder.

My FC is Chris. I cannot climb Ladders.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU............. ..

[Raistlin]

Oh yeah, I've never encountered that difficulty, as Chris has never been my FC. I guess you could only get it in the Chapter 3s then.

Chris at least partly makes up for it by having access to better armor at the Guild Hall a full chapter earlier than anyone else.

[NeoCracker]

Mechanically I would argue Chris is the best person to give the Fire Rune too.

Firstly, the Fire Rune is terrible because of the AoE's hitting allies. No matter who you give it to you won't see much use out of it. Geddoe may actually get some of the best use out of it, being the best mage over all of your three leads, and Final Flame being a single target spell means you have at least one good attack. But he loses True Lighting, which is vastly superior to Fire. No reason to give Geddoe anything other then True Ligthing, strongest True Rune with the best one to use it.

No matter who you give True Fire too, you won't get much use out of it. Even with his Fire Affinity, Hugo is far better at cutting things then casting, so he get's no use out of True Fire. Chris is just a terrible caster regardless, even at 60 she only gets one Tier 3 spell slot. Really, like Hugo, she's staying focused on Physicality.

Hugo with the water Rune, however, actually has some use due to getting multiple slots of Tier 3, and more of the lower Tiers. Tier 3 Water is a Revive spell, the only one In the game, and since it's not Tier 4 you don't have to worry as much about maxing out spell rank for casting time. Hugo becomes a pretty decent back up Healer with Water Rune, much better then Chris is.

Not that it's a difficult game anyway, so I guess it's not really important. :p

[Pumpkin]

I see from your review that you were not the biggest fan!

I really like it, but different strokes for different folks and all that.

DID YOU DO THE PLAYS?

[Bright Shield]

You should check out 5 cracker. It's the most like 2. Bad load times slightly hinder the enjoyment, but it's a minor gripe. The story feels the most like Game of Thrones as well. With the villains being very Lannister-like. The slow beginning might put you off, but in the end you'll appreciate how well it builds up the world.

1 is also a decent amount like 2, even having a bunch of the same party members(Viktor and Flik being most obvious). It didn't age as well though.

[NeoCracker]

I see from your review that you were not the biggest fan!

I really like it, but different strokes for different folks and all that.

DID YOU DO THE PLAYS?

Only a few of them. It was amusing. :p

[Raistlin]

You should put Viki as Juliet in Romeo and Juliet. Or really pretty much anything.

[black orb]

>>> I liked the Duck people..:luca: