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View Full Version : How relatively strong are (regular people/turks/SOLDIER/Sephiroth)?



Burgermiester85
07-24-2015, 05:05 PM
So I was playing through/rewatching the compilation recently and I had a few questions that maybe people with more in-depth understanding of the lore could answer. The biggest question I have is about how Cloud was able to pick up Sephiroth and throw him down the bottomless pit in the Nibelheim reactor. As far as I am aware, at that point Cloud was just a grunt, no mako, no jenova cells, nothing but good old fashioned adrenaline. My understanding was that SOLDIERs were essentially super human, as we see Zack and Cloud survive huge falls as well as light gunfire (and in Zacks case we see him have the reflexes to deflect oncoming bullets in the opening FMV of Crisis Core) and on top of that, Sephiroth is even stronger than the rest (effortlessly cutting through Ifrit and the Junon cannon, amongst other things), so how was Cloud able to overpower him with no powers? My only idea was that maybe Cloud is somehow "chosen" by the lifestream but is that an actual explanation given anywhere? Or do you take it as implying that a human with adrenaline is stronger than a Sephiroth without/with less adrenaline? The world of FFVII IS fantasy after all, so does this also mean that any human in that universe is strong enough to cut through steel if they have a sharp enough sword and recently incinerated childhood homes? It raises so many questions.

My other question mostly comes from Advent Children, but where exactly do Turks fit in on the power scale? Aside from Vincent, are any of them experimented on to make them stronger? Theres a moment where a heavy metal sign falls directly on Rude's head and it only briefly stuns him, whereas a normal human would certainly have had their head split open if not be bisected entirely. Maybe I'm being nitpicky at this point by dissecting a joke, but it really did raise these questions for me. Besides, even passing that off as a joke doesn't explain how they are able to go toe-to-toe with Yazoo and Loz, aka baby Sephiroths who appear equal in power to Cloud (an actual super-human by this point, of course) and survive their own suicide bombing near the end of the film.

What do you think? I know I'm overthinking all this, but did Square underthink this, or am I missing some information that explains this (Especially the Nibelheim stuff!)?

Saber
07-24-2015, 05:26 PM
Sephiroth was weakened by Zack when cloud lifted him up and threw him in the mako. Turks are well taken care of and probably the best fighters cause they are hired by the president. Most people in the movies are poor. Since they are poor they can't take much. You can see the really powerful ones are healthy looking. Rude is meant to be a grunt so a big sign falling on him isn't suppose to be much. As Reno is smaller he couldn't handle a hit by Loz and sent him and Rude flying.

Burgermiester85
07-24-2015, 05:34 PM
Sephiroth was weakened by Zack when cloud lifted him up and threw him in the mako.

I like that idea, but in the original it isnt much of a fight, Zack kind of just gets knocked out in a second. In the Crisis core retcon, sure, i believe it, its a big fight.

Bright Shield
07-24-2015, 07:17 PM
Sephiroth got impaled by a blade roughly 12 inches wide. His spine had to be cleaved in half. He shouldn't even be able to walk. lol

Forsaken Lover
07-24-2015, 08:19 PM
Yeah, Sephiroth was weakened by Cloud, not Zack.

Sephiroth
07-24-2015, 08:30 PM
Sephiroth was not even weakened by Zack in Crisis Core. He fought him, threw him out, turned around and continued his thing.

Sephiroth, Full Power (so not the nerfed thing where he never actually uses all of his abilities and is handycaped by arrogance) - 10
Sephiroth, 8 (was not even trying against Cloud as shown in AC and explained in the Ultimania Omega)
Cloud, Full Power 8
WEAPON - 8
JENOVA - 8
Chaos Vincent - 7-8
Genesis - 6
Cloud - 6
Zack - 6
Vincent - 5-6
Weiss - 6

Something around that. +- a bit.

Burgermiester85
07-24-2015, 08:38 PM
So I guess my question changes to, "how does a normal human stab a SOLDIER if bullets only barely break their skin?" However I still posit that SOLDIER stabbed through the chest>normal human stabbed through the chest

Sephiroth
07-24-2015, 08:40 PM
So I guess my question changes to, "how does a normal human stab a SOLDIER if bullets only barely break their skin?" However I still posit that SOLDIER stabbed through the chest>normal human stabbed through the chest

Sephiroth was totally lost in his own little world. He never takes anyone seriously because he knows he is stronger. Which is why he holds such a grudge against Cloud. He did not even think that there could be a mortal that would be able to even oppose him.

Burgermiester85
07-24-2015, 08:47 PM
That makes sense. And i suppose clouds chest wound was not as significant as Sephiroths

Forsaken Lover
07-24-2015, 09:11 PM
There's no way Cloud is stronger than Chaos Vincent or Omega Weiss. Omega should be held to a higher level than any other WEAPON because Omega is the full power of the Planet.

Chaos Vincent and Omega Weiss should be 9s or 10s as they have planetary level power, just like Sephiroth.

Sephiroth
07-24-2015, 09:28 PM
Cloud is the only guy who can fight Sephiroth alone and even then only with his DBZ-like powers and Sephiroth treating him like a child and forgetting that he can do stuff like teleport away or read minds. I will not discuss with you here anyway. And Omega is simply a manifest that contains the planet's energy, there is nothing saying it has actual access to all of it when it comes to fighting. Same goes for Chaos which is some kind of semi-Weapon as the Ultimania calls it. I have already been very fair and merciful to put Weapons and Chaos on the same level as Cloud, the trademark that has continously been shown as the only way to stop Sephiroth as it is just how the story wants it to be. And I have not even included Minerva.

Forsaken Lover
07-24-2015, 10:12 PM
Minerva is a featless nothing.

And Chaos Vincent and Omega Weiss had "DBZ powers" at the end of DoC....

Plus Cloud kinda can't fly so he already loses to either of them when tehy fly up and rain nuclear devastation down upon him.

Wolf Kanno
07-25-2015, 12:08 AM
For the most part, Cloud beats Sephiroth in the flashback due to adrenaline and catching Sephiroth off guard. It's not unrealistic either as humans have displayed feats of enormous strength in dire situations though the body never appreciates it.

SOLDIER was weaker in the original if gameplay has anything to do with it as you do fight all three ranks of them and can still win but story-wise, they are certainly superhuman.

The Compilation certainly DBZified the whole series as Sephiroth displayed powers in Crisis Core he never seemed even remotely capable of in the original. The Turks are likely under but I would say they are on par with 3rd or 2nd Class SOLDIERS because there has yet to really be a Turk shown that wasn't a badass and could hold their own against crap like Zircondia-what's-its-name and Jade Weapon, whereas most 3rd and 2nd Class SOLDIERS not named Zack tend to be Whorfed Red Shirts when it's obvious the standard Shin-Ra army is no match but we've got to show how powerful someone is.

Sephiroth is easily the most powerful being in VII, followed very closely by Jenova. I've never had any intention of playing Dirge of Cerberus so I can't comment on Deepground and Compilation Vincent but I'm sure they are up there with Angeal and Genesis. Zack is easily the strongest "normal" SOLDIER seen in the series but that's largely from popularity power. I do feel Cloud is beneath Zack though, Zack simply has more training, was a naturally chosen SOLDIER candidate, and has actually shown to be able to hold his own against Sephiroth better than Cloud has if Crisis Core is anything to go by. Also Zack did his whole adventure solo whereas Cloud's whole adventure was with a party making it difficult to judge how well Cloud would have fared against the BS he put up with by himself. With that said, Cloud is probably more powerful than any normal human and is definitely close to Zack in the "I'm not a cannon fodder SOLDIER Mook" category. Course this is just my feelings based on what I've seen or heard from the Compilation.

NeoCracker
07-25-2015, 11:26 AM
Pretty sure Palmer is the only guy in the game to survive getting hit by a truck so....

yeah. Palmer.

Bright Shield
07-31-2015, 05:14 PM
Cloud is the only guy who can fight Sephiroth alone and even then only with his DBZ-like powers and Sephiroth treating him like a child and forgetting that he can do stuff like teleport away or read minds. I will not discuss with you here anyway. And Omega is simply a manifest that contains the planet's energy, there is nothing saying it has actual access to all of it when it comes to fighting. Same goes for Chaos which is some kind of semi-Weapon as the Ultimania calls it. I have already been very fair and merciful to put Weapons and Chaos on the same level as Cloud, the trademark that has continously been shown as the only way to stop Sephiroth as it is just how the story wants it to be. And I have not even included Minerva.

Sephiroth holds back on Cloud, that's the only reason why he can fight Sephiroth alone.

Omega Weiss and Awakened Chaos Vincent from Dirge are vastly superior to Cloud. Hell, Weiss can block bullets with his bare hands. Giving him far greater durability than any other character.

Full Power Sephiroth > Awakened Vincent > Omega Weiss >>> Cloud

Vincent didn't unlock his full power until Dirge, so Cloud being stronger in AC is a moot point.