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fat_moogle
07-30-2015, 10:26 PM
In an interview with Official PlayStation Magazine Nomura has confirmed that there will be "dramatic changes" made to the combat in the Final Fantasy VII Remake, although it will remain "recognisable".

http://www.psu.com/news/27676/Final-Fantasy-7-Remake-bringing-dramatic-changes-to-combat-but-will-still-be-recognisable

Goodbye, ATB?

Omni-Odin
07-30-2015, 10:34 PM
Just make it like X-2. ATB with action elements. But I have a feeling it'll be like XV.

Galuf
07-31-2015, 12:02 AM
Eh. I havent much clue what it couls be. But if itd supposed to be recognisable. Then either like x-2 or..... Soething new. Idk like a job system which each job can only use certain materia??

NeoCracker
07-31-2015, 02:14 AM
I"m sure it will still be turn based since he's saying 'recognizeable', so considering I am not huge on the combat (It's good, just not amazing), I look forward to this.

DMKA
07-31-2015, 04:01 AM
The more vague "It'll be the same, but different!" comments like this I hear, the more I can see the wails of anger and disapproval from fans about how they ruined FFVII.

I'll be happy as long as it's still turn based on a separate battle mode where I have direct control over all my characters. Anything less, and it's not FFVII.

Wolf Kanno
07-31-2015, 04:10 AM
I'm thinking it will be a retooled versions of XII's system, which is basically X-2's system with the ability to move your characters around. I am totally expecting A.I. partners in the game though.

Tyson
07-31-2015, 11:46 AM
I'm expecting it to be very similiar to XV's system. As much as some fans want turn based I dont see SE going back to it. On smaller spinoff titles yes, but on there 50+ million budget mega games they want to hit the biggest market possible. They want the call of duty, mass effect, skyrim crowd.

maybee
07-31-2015, 01:26 PM
If it's anything like the FF XII or FF XV battle systems I won't buy it. Who gives a toss about the Skyrim crowd, honestly. If you want Skyrim- play smurfing Skyrim.

Shauna
07-31-2015, 02:14 PM
That article told us absolutely nothing new.

Psychotic
07-31-2015, 02:55 PM
I'm open to trying new things - if I want to play FFVII itself, I'll play FFVII - but I hope whatever they do doesn't suck.

Fox
07-31-2015, 02:56 PM
It's all pretty much meaningless until we have some context. Without seeing it in action there's no way to judge if it's keeping to the spirit of the mechanics.

Del Murder
07-31-2015, 03:42 PM
I"m sure it will still be turn based since he's saying 'recognizeable', so considering I am not huge on the combat (It's good, just not amazing), I look forward to this.
Maybe we'll 'recognize' it from the FFXV demo. :p

Bright Shield
07-31-2015, 05:04 PM
It's going to suck. Just warning you guys now. Even if we get lucky, and they keep it turn based. Just imagine how badly they are going to ruin the story. Looking forward to seeing Genesis in the Nibelheim reactor? I'm not. :(

Skyblade
08-02-2015, 11:22 PM
I'm thinking it will be a retooled versions of XII's system, which is basically X-2's system with the ability to move your characters around. I am totally expecting A.I. partners in the game though.

What are you talking about, Wolf? The battle systems of XII and X-2 are nothing alike.

Forsaken Lover
08-02-2015, 11:31 PM
Maybe he meant XIII? It's very easy to miss a Roman numeral.

Ayen
08-02-2015, 11:32 PM
The man has a remarkable talent for answering questions while in fact saying nothing at all.

Forsaken Lover
08-02-2015, 11:55 PM
Tetsuya Nomura for President.

sir helix
08-03-2015, 02:50 AM
im gonna go into this game cautiously

Rostum
08-03-2015, 03:24 AM
I have no problem with dramatic changes to a remake of this game, so long as they use a lot of the successful concepts and elements of the original as a strong foundation.

I see this as more of a 'retelling' of the original game but in a new game, and that is absolutely fine. I feel there's a lot that's been learned about game design since the original was released that could really bring a lot more life to the Final Fantasy franchise, because let's face it if it were just the original game being made prettier it just wouldn't be relevant in today's market.

Wolf Kanno
08-03-2015, 04:08 AM
I'm thinking it will be a retooled versions of XII's system, which is basically X-2's system with the ability to move your characters around. I am totally expecting A.I. partners in the game though.

What are you talking about, Wolf? The battle systems of XII and X-2 are nothing alike.

Actually the way the ATB gauge works and how abilities are utilized is exactly the same. The only differences is that XII allows you to move around the field and X-2 has dress changes and the combo system that barely worked. In both games, characters can take actions immediately with possibility of the whole party striking an enemy simultaneously and skills regain FFIV charge times with high level skills taking longer to cast while things like Attack or use of Items are almost instantaneous. The speeds are relatively the same if you pay attention. The core ATB system is the same, it's just the dressings that modify them to feel differently. Technically XIII also uses the same core ATB system with the loss of movement but added the ability to combo actions by waiting for the ATB to fill.

maybee
08-03-2015, 04:40 AM
It's going to suck. Just warning you guys now. Even if we get lucky, and they keep it turn based. Just imagine how badly they are going to ruin the story. Looking forward to seeing Genesis in the Nibelheim reactor? I'm not. :(

trout. I forgot about the Genesis change during the Nibelheim flashback. Repressed memory no longer.

Rostum
08-03-2015, 07:28 AM
Just imagine how badly they are going to ruin the story.

Final Fantasy VII was my first RPG and it has a special place in my heart, but why do so many people kid themselves that it was a great story, character development and script?

Sure it had some interesting themes and some scarce moments of brilliance for its time, but overall and especially in today's market it's nothing special. The only thing that really keeps me interested in the original is nostalgia, but the fact that they are going to retell the story almost two decades later is the only thing that excites me - I would absolutely hope it's refined (whether they add, subtract or differentiate from the original it honestly doesn't matter).

As an aside: I know some might argue the Compilation has ruined the game and whilst it never really added anything spectacular, perhaps save for some parts of Crisis Core and some ideas in Before Crisis, it never really hindered anything about the original game.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Skyblade
08-03-2015, 02:41 PM
Just imagine how badly they are going to ruin the story.

Final Fantasy VII was my first RPG and it has a special place in my heart, but why do so many people kid themselves that it was a great story, character development and script?

Sure it had some interesting themes and some scarce moments of brilliance for its time, but overall and especially in today's market it's nothing special. The only thing that really keeps me interested in the original is nostalgia, but the fact that they are going to retell the story almost two decades later is the only thing that excites me - I would absolutely hope it's refined (whether they add, subtract or differentiate from the original it honestly doesn't matter).

As an aside: I know some might argue the Compilation has ruined the game and whilst it never really added anything spectacular, perhaps save for some parts of Crisis Core and some ideas in Before Crisis, it never really hindered anything about the original game.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Yeah, I guess Hamlet was a good story "for its time" as well. But that was written hundreds of years ago, it's so out of date and ridiculous these days.

I'd argue that most stories today (especially from Square) have gotten so over-complicated and focused on edgy characters that they've forgotten what makes a good story.

Bright Shield
08-03-2015, 04:34 PM
Sure it had some interesting themes and some scarce moments of brilliance for its time, but overall and especially in today's market it's nothing special.

Please tell me you are trolling. All of the best and most iconic JRPG stories came from the Genesis-PS2 era. Almost nothing great comes out any more. I'm fact nowadays we are in a drought.

Also, as Skyblade said. Age does not affect quality. Is Hamlet crap, just because it came out hundreds of years ago?

NeoCracker
08-03-2015, 06:44 PM
Just imagine how badly they are going to ruin the story.

Final Fantasy VII was my first RPG and it has a special place in my heart, but why do so many people kid themselves that it was a great story, character development and script?

Sure it had some interesting themes and some scarce moments of brilliance for its time, but overall and especially in today's market it's nothing special. The only thing that really keeps me interested in the original is nostalgia, but the fact that they are going to retell the story almost two decades later is the only thing that excites me - I would absolutely hope it's refined (whether they add, subtract or differentiate from the original it honestly doesn't matter).

As an aside: I know some might argue the Compilation has ruined the game and whilst it never really added anything spectacular, perhaps save for some parts of Crisis Core and some ideas in Before Crisis, it never really hindered anything about the original game.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

I would argue in terms of quality FF VII was behind it's time, so many better SNES era RPGs. Hell, even NES has Mother 3. :p

Zanmato
08-03-2015, 09:48 PM
It's not a remake... I'd say it's a reboot.
Because remake is based on the old game and it's enhanced, like HD and stuff.
It looks like a reboot definitely to me, because they're doing a new game actually, which is based storywise on the classic VII.
Am I right?

Wolf Kanno
08-04-2015, 04:06 AM
Yeah, I guess Hamlet was a good story "for its time" as well. But that was written hundreds of years ago, it's so out of date and ridiculous these days.

I'd argue that most stories today (especially from Square) have gotten so over-complicated and focused on edgy characters that they've forgotten what makes a good story.

So VII = Hamlet now? No, just no. Hamlet was written by a screenplay writer following in the footsteps of two millennia of the medium. VII was written by guys who grew up on comic books and Sci-Fi movies and largely aped what little they knew about film in haphazard fashion on a genre barely 20 years old. It's real equivalent would probably be Kevin Smith's Clerks. Considered one of his best works by many of his fans but honestly, he has written better films and his later works did many things better once he got more experience as a director and writer.

Ayen
08-04-2015, 05:08 AM
I think the comparison was more made to say something isn't bad because it's older, than really comparing FFVII story to that of Hamlet.

That bit about them growing up on comics and Sci-Fi movies explains so much, though.

Bright Shield
08-04-2015, 09:40 PM
Yeah, I guess Hamlet was a good story "for its time" as well. But that was written hundreds of years ago, it's so out of date and ridiculous these days.

I'd argue that most stories today (especially from Square) have gotten so over-complicated and focused on edgy characters that they've forgotten what makes a good story.

So VII = Hamlet now? No, just no. Hamlet was written by a screenplay writer following in the footsteps of two millennia of the medium. VII was written by guys who grew up on comic books and Sci-Fi movies and largely aped what little they knew about film in haphazard fashion on a genre barely 20 years old. It's real equivalent would probably be Kevin Smith's Clerks. Considered one of his best works by many of his fans but honestly, he has written better films and his later works did many things better once he got more experience as a director and writer.

Oh no. FFVII is most definitely not Hamlet. Just saying that old =/= less quality.

Bright Shield
08-04-2015, 09:41 PM
Just imagine how badly they are going to ruin the story.

Final Fantasy VII was my first RPG and it has a special place in my heart, but why do so many people kid themselves that it was a great story, character development and script?

Sure it had some interesting themes and some scarce moments of brilliance for its time, but overall and especially in today's market it's nothing special. The only thing that really keeps me interested in the original is nostalgia, but the fact that they are going to retell the story almost two decades later is the only thing that excites me - I would absolutely hope it's refined (whether they add, subtract or differentiate from the original it honestly doesn't matter).

As an aside: I know some might argue the Compilation has ruined the game and whilst it never really added anything spectacular, perhaps save for some parts of Crisis Core and some ideas in Before Crisis, it never really hindered anything about the original game.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

I would argue in terms of quality FF VII was behind it's time, so many better SNES era RPGs. Hell, even NES has Mother 3. :p

Mother 3 is way better. It's on the GBA though. Mother 1 is the NES game.

Wolf Kanno
08-05-2015, 05:11 AM
Yeah, I guess Hamlet was a good story "for its time" as well. But that was written hundreds of years ago, it's so out of date and ridiculous these days.

I'd argue that most stories today (especially from Square) have gotten so over-complicated and focused on edgy characters that they've forgotten what makes a good story.

So VII = Hamlet now? No, just no. Hamlet was written by a screenplay writer following in the footsteps of two millennia of the medium. VII was written by guys who grew up on comic books and Sci-Fi movies and largely aped what little they knew about film in haphazard fashion on a genre barely 20 years old. It's real equivalent would probably be Kevin Smith's Clerks. Considered one of his best works by many of his fans but honestly, he has written better films and his later works did many things better once he got more experience as a director and writer.

Oh no. FFVII is most definitely not Hamlet. Just saying that old =/= less quality.

Lol, I know what he was getting at, but I had to play the VII troll card. :mamu:

black orb
08-06-2015, 12:14 AM
>>> As long I have full control of the 3 characters in battle I wont complain.
Just dont dare to put A.I characters on my battles. :luca:

Noctis Caelum
08-06-2015, 03:10 AM
There is absolutely no reason for 2015 and Beyond FF games to be stuck in the ATB combat style.
Don't like that? Go play the old FF games. That kind of combat was perfect for the late 80s and 90s because systems weren't really powerful. Now it's 2015 and we have nothing BUT options and no limits holding creativity back. And there are still people that complain about FF straying away from turn base combat. Like... seriously?

Forsaken Lover
08-06-2015, 06:19 AM
Except turn-based combat doesn't exist because of technological limitations. Which is why even some modern JRPGs use it.

krissy
08-06-2015, 07:40 AM
i think all combat should be just fmv's of them fighting and then i can just play the exploration/town/world map bits

Mirage
08-06-2015, 10:58 PM
There is absolutely no reason for 2015 and Beyond FF games to be stuck in the ATB combat style.
Don't like that? Go play the old FF games. That kind of combat was perfect for the late 80s and 90s because systems weren't really powerful. Now it's 2015 and we have nothing BUT options and no limits holding creativity back. And there are still people that complain about FF straying away from turn base combat. Like... seriously?

Yeah, that's why turn based strategy games ceased to exist once real time strategy became possible to do.

That's also why RPGs with realtime combat like Tales and Star Ocean repeatedly outsold any turn based Final fantasy since their inceptions.

Dr Unne
08-07-2015, 01:53 AM
Combat was never the strength of FF7. By the middle part of the game I was usually reading a book while holding down the button to fast-forward through battles. Most of the spells were useless. Many of the weapons were either crap you'd never use, or strict upgrades to your existing stuff so that it was obvious you should switch. Most of the enemies looked really cool but did nothing exciting. Combat was braindead grinding except for a few tough bosses and the usual "pick the right elemental weakness" thing.

FF7 was good because the world was cool, the plot was engaging, the characters were interesting, the music was amazing, etc. I loved collecting and levelling up Materia, unlocking Limit Breaks, that kind of thing, but I think most of the fun of that was in collecting them rather than actually using them in battle.

Honestly I'd play a 120 hour FF7 point-and-click adventure with no combat and be happy, if it's presented in the same style as the trailer video. I'm excited to revisit the world, not sit around for hours holding down the button for Attack again.

Elly
08-07-2015, 04:10 AM
It's not a remake... I'd say it's a reboot.
Because remake is based on the old game and it's enhanced, like HD and stuff.
It looks like a reboot definitely to me, because they're doing a new game actually, which is based storywise on the classic VII.
Am I right?

that's Enhanced Ports and HD Remaster/Remixes you're thinking about... a remake starts over from the script and character designs... so it really does look more like a remake which is exactly what i was hoping for... though baring that, an enhanced port would have been just fine by me...

Mirage
08-07-2015, 05:16 AM
There would be no realistic way to enhance a port much more than what you see in HD mods for the PC version. And they're typically not very impressive

Psychotic
08-07-2015, 11:29 AM
Honestly I'd play a 120 hour FF7 point-and-click adventure with no combat and be happy, if it's presented in the same style as the trailer video. I'm excited to revisit the world, not sit around for hours holding down the button for Attack again.This is a very interesting concept actually and I'd be up for playing that.

I do think FFVII suffered from too much mind-numbing combat. In my current LP I've simply cut a hell of a lot of random encounters out as it's all very repetitive. Take two steps, oh, the same monsters I just fought, better spam more Matra Magic/Beta/Magic Breath at them until they go away. A couple of alternatives I would suggest would be no more random encounters, but instead each dungeon having perhaps 1 to 5 really memorable encounters that last longer and make you think and be more tactical.

Going off on a tangent here, the Final Fantasy with the most tactical and challenging combat that I can think of is actually Record Keeper, the mobile title. You have a party of five and only two abilities per character. All bosses will have some weakness or attack pattern and you have to choose your abilities accordingly. The boss is weak to Slow and casts a lot of magic so do you bring Slowga to give you more time to finish it off or do you bring Carbuncle to get reflect set up? The boss is weak to magic but then you only have limited uses - so do you bring Vivi and try to blitz it quick or do you bring someone like Sephiroth who can just attack indefinitely? Good (and free) game and chock full of nostalgia, you should all get it. Or don't, it'll take over and ruin your life.

Elly
08-07-2015, 01:17 PM
There would be no realistic way to enhance a port much more than what you see in HD mods for the PC version. And they're typically not very impressive

unfortunately that is true... i have looked at several HD mods for the PC version and didn't like any of them, i was like wow character portraits are images from Advent Children in different outfits than they wear in game, that's just awefull...

Psychotic
08-07-2015, 02:46 PM
There would be no realistic way to enhance a port much more than what you see in HD mods for the PC version. And they're typically not very impressive

unfortunately that is true... i have looked at several HD mods for the PC version and didn't like any of them, i was like wow character portraits are images from Advent Children in different outfits than they wear in game, that's just awefull...I have an HD mod for the PC version and they're all in their FFVII attire in their portraits. Barret, for example, has been photoshopped into his brown jacket.

Del Murder
08-07-2015, 07:25 PM
Yeah, walk two steps and then random encounter just won't fly in today's gaming and I really hope that's not how they do it (and I doubt it is). But even 'modern' combat systems can quickly get tedious and boring if all you do is run around slash and dodge rolling (Crisis Core) or 2/3 of your team is controlled by programmable AI (FFXIII). I will keep playing this broken record until they bring it back: FFX-2 was the greatest combat step they have taken in the last 15 years and they should have another game that builds off that system in all the right ways and not the wrong ways like FFXIII did.

Also, a tactical grid-based combat system (FFT) would work too. :) Or a menu-driven action RPG (KH:BBS). :)

Mirage
08-07-2015, 07:35 PM
Imagine FFX-2's combat without screen transitions. FFX-2 fused with chrono trigger.

Jinx
08-07-2015, 08:44 PM
FFX-2's system without screen transitions would be amazing. Personally, I still love ATB, but I will say the screen transitions are annoying (especially when you're grinding or looking for a specific blue magic).

My main concern--and if it happened, I would likely not purchase the game--is that two members of your party will be AI controlled. I hate that function, especially in a Final Fantasy game, and it would completely turn me off of it. I'd probably still enjoy watching other people play the game, but hopefully SE has has enough negative feedback from doing that in past games they won't do that for this one.

Leigh
08-07-2015, 10:41 PM
Now that the main series seems to be well and truly on the road to becoming more action-orientated, in terms of the underlying combat mechanics, then I don't envision FFVII:Remake incorporating a turn-based battle schema. It's not that turn-based combat is a devolution of real-time combat, but if they're trying to replicate a cinematic experience, a la Advent Children, then keeping the encounters turn-based would just be a bizarre development and pacing choice.

Given current gaming culture, especially on consoles, to develop games to be as sensory overloading as possible; I'd be extremely surprised if they did stick to anything resembling the original game. I suppose the clue is in the choice of phrasing. "Dramatic changes" tends to sway towards an entirely new direction. I'm all for it to be honest. Although I am sure I am in the minority with this opinion...I wouldn't even mind if you only had control over Cloud. But that, by enlarge, is not in the spirit of jRPG.

Mirage
08-08-2015, 01:12 AM
FFX-2's system without screen transitions would be amazing. Personally, I still love ATB, but I will say the screen transitions are annoying (especially when you're grinding or looking for a specific blue magic).

My main concern--and if it happened, I would likely not purchase the game--is that two members of your party will be AI controlled. I hate that function, especially in a Final Fantasy game, and it would completely turn me off of it. I'd probably still enjoy watching other people play the game, but hopefully SE has has enough negative feedback from doing that in past games they won't do that for this one.

The way I see it, AI controlled team mates are typically used when the devs think the combat moves too fast for the player to input commands for three characters at once. It mostly depends on how fast paced the action is, not screen transitions. You can have slower combat with three times as many command inputs, or fast combat with 1/3rd the command input. In terms of how engaging it is for the player, I think they're pretty equal and it only comes down to personal preference, not how "modern" a game is.

Fox
08-08-2015, 02:13 PM
I would definitely be disappointed if we only had control of one character. I liked micro-managing every little aspect of what everyone did in the original - just because Cloud is the 'protagonist' doesn't mean he's the only character I want to play as.

I can't imagine this is the way they would go with it because it's Nomura and I assume he's going to want to 'action it up' wherever possible, but I wouldn't mind them ditching the ATB for the CTB with swap out mechanic a-la FFX. It would be nice to have everyone in your party available to jump into battle, not just your three mains. I think that could be quite a big improvement.

Mirage
08-08-2015, 07:11 PM
Limiting how many characters you have and which roles they have places a stronger emphasis on party building and tactics, something I prefer over having everything and everyone available at all times.

While innovative, I think the character swapping and one character for each type of enemy is a bit gimmicky and doesn't add too much to the gameplay. The system just makes for less thinking.

8ther
08-08-2015, 10:40 PM
I don't see them making Cloud the only playable character, unless he's going to fight Dyne and the events between Northern Crater and Mideel are being rewritten to have him present and well.

Leigh
08-09-2015, 02:44 AM
I don't think you will only play as Cloud throughout the game. But if they do away with a turn-based combat, you have to come to the conclusion that controlling all aspects of your party at any one time would be exceptionally difficult. I suspect they'll take heed from Type-0. They'll give you the option to control different characters, but only through a switching system. Again, I wouldn't technically mind this. The battling was never the be-all-end-all for me in Final Fantasy. I never found the combat in Final Fantasy particularly engaging - it was more the whole experience that I appreciated. Back in the day, I would never have told people to play Final Fantasy VII "because the battles and action are so amazing". I'd probably have said the characters and story were pretty cool.

We all get different things out of Final Fantasy; I am sure of this. And there will always be a group of people, no matter how great the game may be, who will find dissatisfaction in certain components in one or more ways. I'm not implying that people are 'searching for criticism', but nothing in the world can tick the right boxes for everyone. For some people it may be an overhauled system of combat. For me; it would be deviating drastically from the original personalities of the characters, and the omission of elements that made up big portions of the original story. The Wall Market won't be anywhere near as goofy, which might be a sad thing, if I wear by nostalgia goggles...but I'd be interested in how they would tackle parts of the original game to fit the whole dark colour palette of 21st century takes-itself-way-too-seriously Final Fantasy.

Why remake a game if you are just going to do the same thing, but instead of using A4 paper and crayons, you're using watercolours on canvas. I'll be pretty excited to see the remake, if only to gauge Square-Enix's underlying philosophy of what they believe a fun and better gaming experience is. They're taking a game, a critically well-received and loved title, and publicly announcing that "We can make this game even better". I'm curious, especially by going off their current rather middle of the road, mediocre creative output, what they truly believe makes a good game. We will have access to a complete direct comparison.

Fox
08-09-2015, 01:01 PM
Why remake a game if you are just going to do the same thing, but instead of using A4 paper and crayons, you're using watercolours on canvas.

Because why fix what isn't broke?

Actually, I think there's a better reason. I think when you remake a game, the first people it should appeal to are fans of the original. Now I have no issue with wanting to branch out further than that as well, but I think the is a reasonable expectation that the primary goal should be to satisfy the original audience. Making big changes to the story, making big changes to the game systems, these are all things that risk alienating those original players. If you can make changes and keep them happy, good job. But if I lose a lot of enjoyment from the remake because it's turned into an action game, I suck at action games, and one of the reasons I liked the original is because it wasn't an action game, then in my mind they will have failed.

As you say, they can never please everyone. Even if you were completely faithful you would get some people condemning it because Cloud's hair spikes were the wrong length. But I do think they should be attempting to keep to the spirit of the original as much as possible, because it is the original fans who enjoyed that spirit that this project is (or at least should) be being created for.

Leigh
08-09-2015, 06:12 PM
I do think that Final Fantasy has outgrown the tank from which it was conceived in. I feel that they chose design specifications originally because there were hardware limitations on what was possible at the time. Judging by everything they have done recently, that has linked into the universe of Final Fantasy VII, is they have tried to encapsulate feeling of fast-paced, highly intensive action. I've never had the chance to even play Crisis Core, but from what I read, even that tried to make more of a real-time transition and provide more flexibility in the tactile nature of the combat; a more action-orientated experience requiring more input from the player through reaction time rather than the cerebral nature of strategizing and planning.

Are Square-Enix remaking this game, because they feel they can truly do justice to what their original conceptions were for the game back in the day? Or are they just submitting to the will of current gaming trends? Companies aren't loyal by nature you have to remember. They're objective, and they go by what is going to make them successful, or what they believe will make them successful, in the now. The first people who played the game might indeed be the original fans - but are we the chief demographic from a marketing perspective anymore? Do we make sense as a generation to focus on financially? I'm not a businessman; I'm purely spectulating, but younger video gamers have come to expect hyperstimulation of the ages from video games.

Final Fantasy has dipped its toe in so many genres now, in terms of the variety of spin-offs; I don't even associate it as strictly an RPG-led franchise anymore. People complain these days about the amount of FMVs in many modern AAA titles. So how can a game developer ensure that the overall feel of what they are trying to achieve can still apply, but without resorting so heavily on elaborate pre-rendered action scenes? They have to make a flexible set of control mechanics that can approximate that energy. You can't show how badass and spectacular the abilities are of all these characters, in this day and age, and still have a system that see's Cloud swing his sword once every 10-15 seconds. Can you? Maybe you'll disagree, but for me, you lose out on continunity and immersion. And today, the industry is all about immersion. Hence the big push for people sporting headgear that either belongs in the mountains of Austria, or exploring the depths of Australia's Great Barrier Reef.

Unless long-term fans just want Final Fantasy VII: Special Edition. Like Monkey Island before it; it is identical in everyway, it just featured redrawn pre-rendered backgrounds and character models. Press the Playstation button to transition from old graphics to new graphics! Monkey Island: Special Edition only exists however, because everything already existed, they just used the original concept art. Square would have to spend a lot more time and money pumping out, essentially, the same game. That's when I ask the question "but why though?!".

Why fix what is broken. A car and boat will still get you to your destination; therefore planes are not neccessary. We could probably break nearly everything we do as humans, and realize that there is no fundamental point for doing it. We simply do because we want, and sometimes its that desire for a new experience that drives us. Then you could argue: "Well why doesn't Square just make an entirely new Final Fantasy game?" It could have something to do with Square being at a loss with were to take the series next? They could be in a transitionary period, trying to understand what people want out of their games, and relying on revitalizing a franchise that has so more adoration is a good place to get your first foothold. The story is already there, loved by all. They know that can work from the get-go. Now they can fiddle around with different implementations.

Considering that their last big release was practically lambasted by long-term fans might have something to do with their choices as well. And the fact that the general public have been pretty much sh*tting conkers asking for a remake for over 10 years. :p

Fox
08-09-2015, 11:41 PM
I think this concept of trying to break out of the limitations they lived by in the early years is such an odd attitude. That made 10 games in broadly the same formula for a decade and a half and they were consistently hugely, hugely popular games. Then we reach about 2004 and suddenly they decide there's no market for that any more. So they start working on real time stuff, phasing out the traditional systems. Sales don't reach as high and again, the assumption is we still have too many complex, archaic RPG systems. What made them think there wasn't a market for it in the first place? What about Final Fantasy X's 8 million sales made them think "Oh man... nobody's buying these games any more?!"


You can't show how badass and spectacular the abilities are of all these characters, in this day and age, and still have a system that see's Cloud swing his sword once every 10-15 seconds. Can you? Maybe you'll disagree

I do indeed, absolutely. Even in the immersive, seamless action games of the modern day, we still accept incredible stretches of that immersion for the sake of the game. Objective markers, mana bars, menus galore for your inventories and crafting, being generally in 3rd person, stick to cover systems, regenerating health, tailored difficulty curves, lock-on systems, scoring systems, skill/equipment unlocks and so on and so forth. Game mechanics that are 'unrealistic' or have no place in the game world they are found in are everywhere, and we don't notice them because that's not what immersion is about. To this day the most 'immersive' game I've ever played is FFIX. Immersion is a word that bugs me because it's something everyone wants and talks about all the time but nobody can ever agree on what provides it. Yes, as you say, standing around to wait your turn to attack is not very realistic. I grant that point. But neither is anything else you do in a video game.

In terms of spectacular abilities I'd go a step further and say a turn based system can actually actually advantageous for showing that stuff off. I don't imagine Supernova or Knights of the Round working too well in a real time combat system, I don't imagine player's would like to get pulled away from that as the solar system gets destroyed. Although maybe I'm wrong, XV has already shown it doesn't mind pausing the fight for some impressive summon cutscenes, so there's hope yet.

Final Fantasy has been struggling for the past decade because it is trying so many new things, that it is losing its identity. And instead of providing something that is almost unique amongst big budget games, it risks moving more and more towards falling into line with the rest of them. A VII remake is an excellent opportunity to refind that identity and prove you can still have games like Final Fantasy VII in the modern day on modern tech. I see no reason why that would not be the case.


Why fix what is broken. A car and boat will still get you to your destination; therefore planes are not neccessary.

If someone wants to build a plane, that's fine. But you don't do that by putting wings on a boat.

That's what SE have been doing lately, they've been trying to keep their long term core supporters happy whilst simultaneously changing everything that (not insignificantly sized) market enjoyed about the games in the first place.

Mirage
08-09-2015, 11:46 PM
additionally, car enthusiasts want better cars in their garage, not airplanes :p

fat_moogle
08-10-2015, 01:42 AM
I agree with points that both Fox and Leigh make. The overall goal here for SE is to capitalise on the success of the most popular Final Fantasy title, and at the end of the day, that's what they're doing. I'd love to see a remake of Final Fantasy VII with its original turn based format if they got rid of random encounters. I can't be dealing with that -_- Maybe if they made it like the upcoming DQXI, where monsters roam and when you approach it brings up a turn based battle screen without any transition.

If it turned out to be more action orientated though I really wouldn't mind, providing that the materia system was still in place and Cloud isn't the only playable character. Nomura planned to have all the party playable in FF Versus XIII so there's hope he'll do the same for FFVIIr.

maybee
08-10-2015, 04:11 AM
I don't see them making Cloud the only playable character, unless he's going to fight Dyne and the events between Northern Crater and Mideel are being rewritten to have him present and well.

Unless maybe you just play as Barrett and Cid during those special moments and you get Cloud's stats, levels and materia ?

Zanmato
08-10-2015, 08:57 AM
It's not a remake... I'd say it's a reboot.
Because remake is based on the old game and it's enhanced, like HD and stuff.
It looks like a reboot definitely to me, because they're doing a new game actually, which is based storywise on the classic VII.
Am I right?

that's Enhanced Ports and HD Remaster/Remixes you're thinking about... a remake starts over from the script and character designs... so it really does look more like a remake which is exactly what i was hoping for... though baring that, an enhanced port would have been just fine by me...

I understand it now.
Thank you for the answer! ^^

Bright Shield
08-10-2015, 06:36 PM
http://home.eyesonff.com/images/images_eoffclassic/icons/icon1.gif

additionally, car enthusiasts want better cars in their garage, not airplanes :p


Indeed. This sums it up perfectly. There's room for both cars and airplanes. There is however, no reason at all to try and turn a car into an airplane. Same thing applies to turn based and action oriented games.

Leigh
08-10-2015, 11:47 PM
http://home.eyesonff.com/images/images_eoffclassic/icons/icon1.gif

additionally, car enthusiasts want better cars in their garage, not airplanes :p


There is however, no reason at all to try and turn a car into an airplane.

Now hold on just a dang minute!
65428

Check out how happy you could be!! :p

fat_moogle
08-11-2015, 12:38 AM
http://home.eyesonff.com/images/images_eoffclassic/icons/icon1.gif



additionally, car enthusiasts want better cars in their garage, not airplanes :p


There is however, no reason at all to try and turn a car into an airplane.

Now hold on just a dang minute!
65428

Check out how happy you could be!! :p
Best use of a Chitty Chitty Bang Bang image ever xD

theundeadhero
08-13-2015, 01:33 AM
I didn't like that movie as a child. Why would I like it now in my FF game?

Leigh
08-14-2015, 05:00 PM
I didn't like that movie as a child. Why would I like it now in my FF game?

You're missing the point. You're focusing on not enjoying the experience of watching other people have fun in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Put yourself in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Speeding down the roads, taking off and flying through the sky, swirling through clouds making them into whippy ice-cream. Laughing and giggling whilst you do barrel rolls, the tickle in your stomach as you sharply descend from the heavens.

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is the bomb. You know it.

NeoCracker
08-31-2015, 11:11 AM
It seems we aren't going to see ARPG route guys.

"They’re not opposed to making changes to the battle system, just working on the direction they want to take things.
Normally when you remake something like that it turns into more of an Action RPG but they want to retain the feeling of FFVII while pursing different ways of surprising you."

It came from an interview with several AAA Japanese developers I linked in the general gaming forum, but this bit seemed pertinant to post here. :p

Shauna
08-31-2015, 11:32 AM
It's just gonna be a first person shooter instead for REASONS

Zanmato
09-07-2015, 10:02 AM
It's just gonna be a first person shooter instead for REASONS

I see what you did here! :V
I want to see a Gameplay Trailer so badly!

Ixtli
10-14-2015, 08:37 PM
There's going to be about as much gripe on this game as there was the entire 13 series. You're going to hear people tell you that the original is better.

Stecloud
10-17-2015, 07:34 PM
I don't mind if they want to do something a bit different with the battle system but they need to find a way to retain all of the 'moves' you can perform during a fight. So I expect a full range of summons (from Choco/Mog to KOTR), magic spells, steal, sense, enemy skills, mine, 4x-cut, morph etc...

Unfortunately I doubt I'll get this because I don't know how all that can be implemented into a non-turn-based system.