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Formalhaut
09-05-2015, 07:06 PM
So having read Pumpkin's experiences with Persona 3, I found the 'social link' element to be quite interesting (I'm always a fan of rich character development and engaging story).

So I was wondering, which game should I start with? Pumpkin played Persona 3, and she seemed to enjoy it. But what about 1 and 2? Do I need to play 1 and 2 to 'get' 3, or is it one of those series where you can just jump in?

Fynn
09-05-2015, 07:13 PM
No, you don't need to play 1 and 2. In fact, it's better that you start with 3, since it's the one that introduces the social link feature. P1 frankly blows, while the two P2 titles are great, but not entirely friendly to newcomers. Best check out the later titles first, then come back if you liked them.

This is one of my personal faves and you should read my entry in it in my top 25 list as well :D If you're playing for, go for any version that isn't the original release, since they streamline a lot. While FES is cool with it's additional features, I found the additional scenario weak. P3 Portable gives you two protagonists to choose from (the female path is awesome), you can control all party members in battle, and in general it's just much more user-friendly. But you get a kind of simplified interface because of that - it's all much more visual novely, but you can get used to it.

And be prepared to face the most tedious dungeon ever. But the writing and amazing characters more than make up for it. It's a gem that needs to be played by EVERYONE.

Formalhaut
09-05-2015, 07:17 PM
This is one of my personal faves and you should read my entry in it in my top 25 list as well :D If you're playing for, go for any version that isn't the original release, since they streamline a lot. While FES is cool with it's additional features, I found the additional scenario weak. P3 Portable gives you two protagonists to choose from (the female path is awesome), you can control all party members in battle, and in general it's just much more user-friendly. But you get a kind of simplified interface because of that - it's all much more visual novely, but you can get used to it.

Ah, yes. Should I do the female main character first or the male main character? How exactly do they differ?

And I'm probably going to go for Persona 3 Portable: I love visual novels, so that doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Fynn
09-05-2015, 07:21 PM
It is optimal and it really makes the dungeon more forgiving.

They're both good, just you'll romance girls as a guy and guts as a girl. The girl has all the party members in her social links, while the boy only has girls and sadly, al social links with girls default to romance for him, while the girl gets friebdshio/romance routes. She's slightly better written since the team has had more experience by thatvpoint, but you won't miss out on much if you pick a boy for roleplaying purposes.

FFIX Choco Boy
09-05-2015, 07:28 PM
I personally really loved both routes, and find them both to be great for different reasons. The male route is, of course, the canonical one, though.

Hollycat
09-05-2015, 07:37 PM
Start with 3, then move on to 4(golden), and by the time you finish both 5 may be out.
Also, definitely go with P3P. The female lead is written so much better!

Formalhaut
09-05-2015, 07:56 PM
Given what everyone is saying, I'll think I'll go for the Female Main Character first. If I end up really enjoying it, I might redo it and pick the Main Main Character next. Thanks everyone!

Before I get started, is there any obvious hints and tips that I should know about? Any pitfalls I should avoid? How should I go about the social link element?

Fynn
09-05-2015, 09:05 PM
Don't use any guides for the links. You won't manage to do them all normally in one playthrough, but the theme is choices anyway, so just try to advance the links at a natural pace, just maxing out the ones that you feel you like.

Also, in P3P, you can easily reach the limit of Tartarus you have in one evening, so you have more time on links.

And don't dispose of Orpheus until you get the compendium. He's the only Persona you can't fuse or receive otherwise, and he's required for some powerful fusions later in the game.

Formalhaut
09-05-2015, 11:03 PM
Don't use any guides for the links. You won't manage to do them all normally in one playthrough, but the theme is choices anyway, so just try to advance the links at a natural pace, just maxing out the ones that you feel you like.

Also, in P3P, you can easily reach the limit of Tartarus you have in one evening, so you have more time on links.

And don't dispose of Orpheus until you get the compendium. He's the only Persona you can't fuse or receive otherwise, and he's required for some powerful fusions later in the game.

Why would you want to get rid of any Personas? Is there a limit to the number you can 'carry'?

Fynn
09-05-2015, 11:06 PM
Indeed. And it's pretty low at the beginning, and then it gets increased as you progress.

Mirage
09-05-2015, 11:10 PM
are you sure orpheus can't appear after combat?

Fynn
09-05-2015, 11:11 PM
Pretty positive.

Pumpkin
09-06-2015, 12:48 AM
Honestly I much preferred Persona 4, but that's just a matter of personal taste. Pick a difficulty you're comfortable with, since I know you have a hard time with dying in games and it can get pretty challenging for newbs like us who don't know all the tricks and stuff. Work on the social links you care about.

Also yeah, I'd do the dungeon in as big of chunks as you can. Hopefully you'll enjoy it and it won't feel super tedious to you. But I get very anxious about that stuff and they tend to take days away from you with no warning sometimes, so sometimes it may seem you have more time left than you actually do. IIRC they generally give you the night before time is up, so you could wait until the end or get it over with at the beginning

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 02:51 AM
I've chosen beginner, because obviously I don't want my characters to die. It isn't that I don't like death, I just can't stand the fact that the characters I've taken responsibility over have died because of me and my actions. I feel like I've failed them! :p

Anyway, I'm on 24/4 (I'm still getting used to the different dating system). I've just re-entered Tartarus and I have to say, it hasn't bothered me yet. The battles are all pretty fun, even if Mitsuru is like a worried mother: constantly telling me things in battle that I already know about. I like her.

In fact, I like all the characters so far, besides that mysterious boy. I'm sure he'll turn out to be important.

In terms of combat, I seem to be coping fine. The 'One More' system is pretty fun, and it really encourages you to hone in on an opponent's weak point. Tartarus is a money-maker though: I entered Tartarus again without much Yen due to me going to the movies and playing those arcade machines to raise my academics. But now I appear to earning much more due to the treasure chests. I've decided against splitting my team up though: if they end up running into any shadows by themselves they would be in trouble.

I do have a question though: I've learned I can fuse personas to create new ones. I'm still pretty early in the game and I only have three personas to my name: Orpheus (which I'm obviously keeping), Pixie, and Apsaras. In regards to Persona fusion, are there any that I should watch out for that'll give me an edge?

Hollycat
09-06-2015, 04:07 AM
I've chosen beginner, because obviously I don't want my characters to die. It isn't that I don't like death, I just can't stand the fact that the characters I've taken responsibility over have died because of me and my actions. I feel like I've failed them! :p

Anyway, I'm on 24/4 (I'm still getting used to the different dating system). I've just re-entered Tartarus and I have to say, it hasn't bothered me yet. The battles are all pretty fun, even if Mitsuru is like a worried mother: constantly telling me things in battle that I already know about. I like her.

In fact, I like all the characters so far, besides that mysterious boy. I'm sure he'll turn out to be important.

In terms of combat, I seem to be coping fine. The 'One More' system is pretty fun, and it really encourages you to hone in on an opponent's weak point. Tartarus is a money-maker though: I entered Tartarus again without much Yen due to me going to the movies and playing those arcade machines to raise my academics. But now I appear to earning much more due to the treasure chests. I've decided against splitting my team up though: if they end up running into any shadows by themselves they would be in trouble.

I do have a question though: I've learned I can fuse personas to create new ones. I'm still pretty early in the game and I only have three personas to my name: Orpheus (which I'm obviously keeping), Pixie, and Apsaras. In regards to Persona fusion, are there any that I should watch out for that'll give me an edge?
Before you fuse it should show you projected skills. The more complex the persona, the more powerful generally. Just keep fusing to get stronger and stronger personas, and make sure you have a wide type and skill spread, and at least one persona that can heal.

Fynn
09-06-2015, 06:13 AM
Yeah, generally what Hypo said. If you keep fusing, you should be just fine.

Also, keep the arcana in mind. Each Persona is assigned to a major arcana of the tarot. And each social link represents one of those as well. Now, these are mutually relevant. The higher rank your social link of a specific arcana is, the more exp. the newly fused persona gets at the beginning (that's the only way to fuse personae above your level). In turn, if you have a persona of a specific arcana with you when you do the social link conversation with that arcana, you get more of those invisible points than usual and the next rank-up will come faster.

Glad you're enjoying the battles! That should kind of ease the tedium of Tartarus. Just don't get discouraged and know that if you ever want to play P4, the dungeons are done much, much better.

Also, Junpei is the single best character in video gaming history. Just for the record.

NeoCracker
09-06-2015, 06:48 AM
Yeah, generally what Hypo said. If you keep fusing, you should be just fine.

Also, keep the arcana in mind. Each Persona is assigned to a major arcana of the tarot. And each social link represents one of those as well. Now, these are mutually relevant. The higher rank your social link of a specific arcana is, the more exp. the newly fused persona gets at the beginning (that's the only way to fuse personae above your level). In turn, if you have a persona of a specific arcana with you when you do the social link conversation with that arcana, you get more of those invisible points than usual and the next rank-up will come faster.

Glad you're enjoying the battles! That should kind of ease the tedium of Tartarus. Just don't get discouraged and know that if you ever want to play P4, the dungeons are done much, much better.

Also, Junpei is the single best character in video gaming history. Just for the record.

My Waifu disagrees.

http://i.imgur.com/qcRC5Mn.png

fat_moogle
09-06-2015, 09:06 AM
I really really reallllyyyyy want to get back in to P3P but I seem to have lost all motivation for it at the moment. I think I have about 3 in game months left, but when I turned it on last and got to Tartarus I was just like "UGH!" and turned it off. Did anybody else take a long break during the playthrough of this game?

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 09:31 AM
Oh gosh, nothing is more terrifying than the entire floor being empty and Mitsuru going "some thing doesn't feel right..." "how strange..." "Something's coming, I think it is death!" and then to hear clinking chains approach. I hightailed it straight to the stairs.

Hollycat
09-06-2015, 09:50 AM
Oh gosh, nothing is more terrifying than the entire floor being empty and Mitsuru going "some thing doesn't feel right..." "how strange..." "Something's coming, I think it is death!" and then to hear clinking chains approach. I hightailed it straight to the stairs.
You made the right choice.

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 10:42 AM
Does Death appear often? I've encountered the scenario of 'hmm, no shadows detected, how odd' like, three or four times now.

NeoCracker
09-06-2015, 10:44 AM
The longer you spend on a floor the higher the chance of death appearing.

Fynn
09-06-2015, 11:00 AM
But yeah, steer clear of him for now ;)

fat_moogle
09-06-2015, 01:05 PM
For me Death only seems to draw near when you've fully cleared a floor which only has the stronger pink enemies.

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 01:20 PM
Death doesn't really draw near on his own accord: at least, I haven't been on a floor long enough for Death to start rolling in from lapsed time. For me, his arrival only happens when its been hastened by the 'no enemies present' situation, which has happened to me quite a few times. :p

Anyway, I'm defeated the second boss on this first level. Both bosses weren't that bad, it was basically a 'attack the weak point for an all-out attack!' type deal. I'm level 9, currently. How many floors are there to Tartarus anyway?

Fynn
09-06-2015, 01:49 PM
265, but it's separated into blocks. It's a good idea to reach the top available to you in one go. New blocks open up after full moon bosses.

Also, those empty floors are rare occurrences. So it's kinda weird that there's so many. Did Mitsuru perchance tell you Tartarus is unstable before you went there?

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 02:05 PM
265, but it's separated into blocks. It's a good idea to reach the top available to you in one go. New blocks open up after full moon bosses.

Also, those empty floors are rare occurrences. So it's kinda weird that there's so many. Did Mitsuru perchance tell you Tartarus is unstable before you went there?

She did, actually.

Sorry, another question! I appear to be stuck with the same four personas I've had since the fifth or so floor: Apsaras, Angel, Pixie and Orpheus. Whenever I enter Hamme- I mean Shuffle Time, I keep getting useless copies. I don't think I've reached my persona limit, given that I'm level 10.

Fynn
09-06-2015, 02:09 PM
265, but it's separated into blocks. It's a good idea to reach the top available to you in one go. New blocks open up after full moon bosses.

Also, those empty floors are rare occurrences. So it's kinda weird that there's so many. Did Mitsuru perchance tell you Tartarus is unstable before you went there?

She did, actually.

Sorry, another question! I appear to be stuck with the same four personas I've had since the fifth or so floor: Apsaras, Angel, Pixie and Orpheus. Whenever I enter Hamme- I mean Shuffle Time, I keep getting useless copies. I don't think I've reached my persona limit, given that I'm level 10.

Your limit right now ist six, I think. And yeah, you won't get any other shuffle time personas in this block, I believe.

Pumpkin
09-06-2015, 02:46 PM
I only got Death like once the whole game because I left my PSP sitting there while I did some stuff xD

Mirage
09-06-2015, 02:47 PM
I've definitely had death draw near on a normal floor, after wiping out all enemies and having had many common enemies respawn and then killed those as well. It happens, but it does take a while.

Pumpkin
09-06-2015, 02:53 PM
I really really reallllyyyyy want to get back in to P3P but I seem to have lost all motivation for it at the moment. I think I have about 3 in game months left, but when I turned it on last and got to Tartarus I was just like "UGH!" and turned it off. Did anybody else take a long break during the playthrough of this game?

I didn't but I sure wanted to sometimes

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 04:12 PM
Death is just terrifying when it beckons. Which I guess is sort of the point :p And I've reached the barrier! I think I'll stay in Tartarus a while longer, just to earn some more Yen. Quizzes and movies don't pay themselves!

Oh, I've just received Nekomata. And not a moment too soon either. After the endless Pixie and Apsaras cards that I keep rejecting in Shuffle Time, seeing a new Persona is actually refreshing.

When do I obtain the compendium, out of interest?

Fynn
09-06-2015, 04:15 PM
Soon. May 10th, to be exact :p

By the way, do you have Liz or Theo in the Velvet Room?

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 04:41 PM
Soon. May 10th, to be exact :p

By the way, do you have Liz or Theo in the Velvet Room?

Theo. Why? Is there a major difference?

Fynn
09-06-2015, 04:47 PM
No, just asking ;) His sister has a different personality, but they're both pretty fun. And Theo is only available in the female route anyway.

Still, make sure to look out for his requests later on! YOu can get some pretty neat stuff, and some of them involve fusing some useful personas!

Also, I don't know why but I always squee when one of my friends starts playing Persona :love:

Formalhaut
09-06-2015, 04:52 PM
No, just asking ;) His sister has a different personality, but they're both pretty fun. And Theo is only available in the female route anyway.

Still, make sure to look out for his requests later on! YOu can get some pretty neat stuff, and some of them involve fusing some useful personas!

That's if I can find any. I actually have eight persona slots. I fused Angel and Nekomata together to get some weird Metroid looking thing. I'm still trying to see if I can get some other personas through Shuffle Time, but Pixie and Apsaras keep appearing. I kinda want to cling on to Pixie, as I've given her some elemental skillcards, and she's weak to no element, so she's fairly useful.

Fynn
09-06-2015, 04:55 PM
Well, no one'a stopping you from keeping her. Just keep in mind Personas require more Exp. than characters to level up, so fusion is the most efficient way to power them up.

Make sure you out that Pixie in the compendium before you fuse it - it'd be a shame to waste skill cards!

Formalhaut
09-07-2015, 02:32 PM
Status update!

I'm now into June, just starting the second Tartarus block after giving a long period of time to social links. The enemies have now gone from 'wow, so easy' to the point where I have all four of my team members with me. Those Steel Gigas hit hard! Besides them, I'm doing fine combat wise.

In terms of social links, I'm deep into the Hierophant S.Link. That old couple is sweet! I'm really invested into their story-line. I'm also along my way with the Chariot S.Link, and the rather depressing Hanged Man S.Link. Maiko just cuts a tragic figure. I've just started the Temperance S.Link as well. Bebe seems... odd.

Fynn
09-07-2015, 03:07 PM
I love Bebe :D Some of my favorites are Sun, Magician, and Moon.

Funny thing, when I was pl,aying as a guy for the first time, which was the original verion, which was much harder, I didn't manage to romance anyone. Come P3P and the female path, and I had three boyfriends :shifty:

Formalhaut
09-07-2015, 03:08 PM
I love Bebe :D Some of my favorites are Sun, Magician, and Moon.

Funny thing, when I was pl,aying as a guy for the first time, which was the original verion, which was much harder, I didn't manage to romance anyone. Come P3P and the female path, and I had three boyfriends :shifty:

You player.

Fynn
09-07-2015, 03:10 PM
What can I say. That female character looks like a pimp.

Pumpkin
09-07-2015, 03:32 PM
Bebe creeps me the frig out

Saori 4 lyfe

Fynn
09-07-2015, 03:37 PM
But he's French!

Bright Shield
09-07-2015, 07:44 PM
Persona 2: Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment have the best story by a rather wide margin. Far deeper, and better paced than 3 or 4.

However, if the social elements are what has you interested; go with 3 or 4. They also improve the gameplay a lot.

story-wise: 2 > all the others

gameplay-wise: 4 > 3 > 2 > 1

Formalhaut
09-07-2015, 08:08 PM
"You were able to deflect their glares with your overwhelming charm"

I'm sorry, just something about that sentence tickles me!

Fynn
09-07-2015, 08:08 PM
I disagree. While 2 has a good, dark story, I really think 3's just so much deeper and meaningful on such a personal level. I mean, I think dealing with the inevitability of death on your own is just much more meaningful than simply stopping someone from manipulating humans into destroying themselves.

Formalhaut
09-08-2015, 01:08 PM
Now tackling the second portion of the Arqa block of Tartarus. Mitsuru is proving very useful with her mabufu skills, which can knock down and entire row of enemies at times.

Also, I've just realized that you could change personas in battle. With this realisation, and my persona limit now up to 10, I'm now making elemental specialist personas. I've still kept Pixie as my 'jack of all trades' persona (and her lack of a weakness IS very useful) but I now have Berith as my agi specialist, Jack Frost as my bufu specialist and Oberon as my zio specialist. I don't have a garu specialist just yet, but Pixie serves that element fine for now. I have Principality for Hama, and Mokoi for Mudo.

There's not many enemies who are weak to physical skills yet, but I do have a Zouchouten who has two types of physical attack. But basically, I think I'm doing well combat wise. I mean, I am playing on beginner, but :p

Fynn
09-08-2015, 01:47 PM
You seem pretty into the combat!

Formalhaut
09-08-2015, 01:55 PM
You seem pretty into the combat!

Something about that funky J-pop gets my blood pumping :p

Fynn
09-08-2015, 02:01 PM
The boy's battle theme was kinda cooler, though :p

6jFaoLrLzd4

Formalhaut
09-08-2015, 03:17 PM
It's definitely funky!

I've just come across this remix to A Way Of Life and I'm in love.

Q9-devZzZNk

Fynn
09-08-2015, 03:38 PM
Yeah, the music in Persona is pretty rad in general.

Pumpkin
09-08-2015, 03:40 PM
http://cdn2.gurl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tumblr_inline_mgv01qbWPt1r5c8sb.gif

Fynn
09-08-2015, 03:41 PM
:stare:

A4DKTAKE03g

Formalhaut
09-08-2015, 03:41 PM
Is that a disapproving GIF there Pumpkin?

Pumpkin
09-08-2015, 03:43 PM
Honestly I found it comically bad. It was one of those things sharky and I would laugh at. Not every song, there were like 2 I liked, a few I didn't mind, and some others I didn't like

Just personal taste though, not trying to make anyone feel bad :p

Fynn
09-08-2015, 03:44 PM
Honestly I found it comically bad. It was one of those things sharky and I would laugh at. Not every song, there were like 2 I liked, a few I didn't mind, and some others I didn't like

Just personal taste though, not trying to make anyone feel bad :p

You're still my pal, Pumpkin, don't worry :p

Pumpkin
09-08-2015, 03:45 PM
I'm sure there are some songs and ost's I like that you're like

"Yeah suuuuuuure"

http://media.giphy.com/media/3h5pe45FM9qUM/giphy.gif

Fynn
09-08-2015, 03:49 PM
I'm pretty open, usually.

Seriously, video game soundtracks are literally all I listen to. For someone who has 12 years of musical education, I have pretty low standards :exdee:

Formalhaut
09-08-2015, 04:01 PM
I'm pretty open, usually.

Seriously, video game soundtracks are literally all I listen to. For someone who has 12 years of musical education, I have pretty low standards :exdee:

Video game music is like my guilty pleasure. I have quite a few on my iTunes that I un-tick from playing whenever I have friends over and they want some music playing. I'd be embarrassing if I turned on Shuffle and some cheesy (but so good!) J-pop from Persona appears.

Taiga
09-08-2015, 05:37 PM
Many video game soundtracks are magical, beautiful, moving. I barely listen to anything else myself to be honest.
I feel this kind of music and many tracks manage to touch my heart. I've just noticed again how much I love e.g. the Final Fantasy soundtracks when I attended the Final Symphony II concert two weeks ago; some parts moved me to tears and I constantly had goosebumps on my arms. That's the power of music for you. <3

What I actually want to say is: neither has anyone low standards because they enjoy listening to soundtracks nor should anyone feel embarrassed about it - it's not as if they were inferior to any other kind of music and if you enjoy listening to it, why hide it? : ) There are so many songs with pointless, aggressive, disrespectful and hateful lyrics out there, I think it's rather the people who listen to such songs who should be worried about their taste in music...

(That went a bit off-topic, sorry)

FFIX Choco Boy
09-08-2015, 06:56 PM
I love listening to video game music (and anime OSTs) when I need something to listen to. And the Persona music is at the very top of the list, even just above the Final Fantasy music (I know, heresy. Sorry, Uematsu.) In addition to me just plain finding the music highly catchy and pleasing to the ear, it also fills me with a lot of great memories of playing through the games. And I'm ALMOST always moved to tears when it comes to Memories of You or Nevermore.

Formalhaut
09-08-2015, 11:51 PM
I've got a question about the critical hit rate: for some reason, Junpei seems to do critical hits far more often than any other character. It might just be luck, but he does tend to do critical hits more often than other characters.

What actually affects the critical hit rate in this game?

Mirage
09-09-2015, 12:23 AM
Condition affects critical hits by a very huge amount. Anyone in "great" condition will be throwing out crits left and right. If a character tells you he or she wants to go to tartarus without you specifically talking to them, that usually means they're in great condition. You can also check their condition in the menu.

Formalhaut
09-09-2015, 01:00 AM
Condition affects critical hits by a very huge amount. Anyone in "great" condition will be throwing out crits left and right. If a character tells you he or she wants to go to tartarus without you specifically talking to them, that usually means they're in great condition. You can also check their condition in the menu.

Everyone's in 'good' condition, yet he does seem to be throwing more critical hits more often. Maybe it is his weapon? Hmm. Not that I'm complaining, of course. He even does those 'double hit' attacks more often as well. I can almost semi-reliably use him to do criticals.

Mirage
09-09-2015, 01:04 AM
If it's his weapon, you should be able to see it in the menu. You crit more when you're a lot stronger than the enemy too. Are you sure you're not coincidencially attacking the weaker enemies with him?

Formalhaut
09-09-2015, 03:09 AM
Eh, possibly. He could be critically hitting more often simply because I tend to use the standard attack with him more than any other character. His skills are predominantly physical and I'm wary of using HP to attack, so I just stick with the physical attack unless there's an express need for him to use Agi. Even then, my MC has all the elements on hand, so it is hardly ever used.

Which is another thing: I chug SP so much when I'm in Tartarus!

Fynn
09-09-2015, 05:52 AM
Don't worry about using HP for attacks. Every single physical special does that in Persona, and it's really worth it. It's nothing you can't quickly heal up after ;)

Also: YAY JUNPEI! :omgomg:

FFIX Choco Boy
09-09-2015, 07:20 AM
And don't forget that magic cannot crit; only physical attacks/skills can. But I did also experience a lot of crits with Junpei compared to others. Akihiko and Mitsuru tied for 2nd most. I think there may be some sort of hidden stat for it; my theory is because their weapons lend themselves to comboing so well. For instance: It's fairly easy to use the momentum behind a sword swing to bring it back around for another pass. Even though Junpei totally doesn't fight like that...

Formalhaut
09-09-2015, 12:41 PM
And don't forget that magic cannot crit; only physical attacks/skills can. But I did also experience a lot of crits with Junpei compared to others. Akihiko and Mitsuru tied for 2nd most. I think there may be some sort of hidden stat for it; my theory is because their weapons lend themselves to comboing so well. For instance: It's fairly easy to use the momentum behind a sword swing to bring it back around for another pass. Even though Junpei totally doesn't fight like that...

At least I'm not the only one who experienced that: for a second I thought I was just hallucinating that Junpei critically hitted more. He hits really hard as well, because he has the nail bat.

Generally speaking, Yukari seems to critically hit the least from my experience but since winning the Toy Bow from a request she is better at physicals. The funny thing with Mitsuru I'm noticing is that she either misses or critically hits. Akihiko is currently equipped with Jack's Gloves, so even if he doesn't critical he at least tends to charm the foe regardless. The MC has the beam Naginata: it seems to be her strongest weapon currently.

Talking about weapons, I've unlocking weapon infusing. Is there anything I should know about it? I've not really used the Antique Shop. And finally, I'm right before the next full moon on 7/7. I'm PLv. 24, with everyone else sort of floating around Plv. 20-21. Is that a strong enough level?

Mirage
09-09-2015, 04:39 PM
magic can't "crit", but it can do extra damage if you get that face cut-in thing. maybe.

Formalhaut
09-09-2015, 06:49 PM
So I'm getting deep into July and had a massive revelation on 7/11. Following that, 7/12 had a long sequence of my characters being all mopey and/or investigative. I feel like the story is heating up!

Fynn
09-09-2015, 08:09 PM
Remind me what happened then?

Oh wait, I think I know.

FFIX Choco Boy
09-09-2015, 08:58 PM
My advice on the antique shop is to save your void items until much later in the game.

Major gameplay spoilers here: Some personas can be infused into your characters' ULTIMATE weapons at that store. For instance: Skadi becomes Mitsuru's ultimate weapon, regardless of which void item you use. It will always be the Snow Queen Whip with +10 to all stats. This link lists all of the special infusions that result in an ultimate weapon: http://www.gamefaqs.com/psp/971508-shin-megami-tensei-persona-3-portable/answers/209661-ultimate-weapon-for-each-character

Formalhaut
09-09-2015, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the advice!

Anyway, just started summer break! We now have Aigis, who I feel is going to fall into that perhaps overused but still really good 'learning to be human' trope. I'd be interested to see how her character develops.

Also, there was a bit with Junpei becoming fairly sullen and aggressive towards the MC, but that kinda got dropped. Remind me why he went all anti-social for a few days after the full moon event? It was never really lampshaded.

Fynn
09-09-2015, 09:48 PM
He's miffed that you're special and he isn't.

And Aigis is love.

FFIX Choco Boy
09-09-2015, 10:25 PM
For the most part, all the plotlines in this game eventually come back around and end up with a full resolution. Trust me, it'll be back. (Though, a couple things aren't explained in the portable version. They're reserved for the FES epilogue "The Answer".) Except for exactly why Yukari acts so troutty all the time. That's never explained. My guess it... She IS a trout, and that's it.

Fynn
09-09-2015, 10:30 PM
Hey, you lay off Yukari :colbert: She's just a realistic teenage character, is all. Teenagers tend to have attitude problems.

Formalhaut
09-09-2015, 10:53 PM
Is 'The Answer' the epilogue to the Male Protagonist's storyline? Is the Female Protagonist's storyline technically non-canon?

FFIX Choco Boy
09-10-2015, 01:02 AM
That is correct. Though, I like to believe that both storylines are equally true, even though some events of one have the potential to directly contradict the events of the other...

Fynn
09-10-2015, 05:53 AM
There is no "canon" or "non-canon", IMO. Atlus created both routes as alternative timelines to each other, and really, aside from cameos in some P4 games, P3 is totally standalone, so who cares what's defined as canon? The Answer may be gone, but trust me - though it ties up a loose end, it runs on incredibly forced conflict, and the gameplay is a grindfest and nothing more, so you're really not missing out.

Mirage
09-10-2015, 07:29 PM
Don't say things like that, fynn. You'll attract bright shield and skyblade :p

Fynn
09-10-2015, 07:29 PM
Don't say things like that, fynn. You'll attract bright shield and skyblade :p

Let them come, then :smug:

FFIX Choco Boy
09-10-2015, 09:29 PM
Now, while all the personas do have their own standalone stories (other than the 2s, which go together), I do believe that they will all reach a head at some point and combine together. So it IS important to note that the male's version is canon... especially considering the effects it has on the entire cast of the game, not going into spoilers.

Formalhaut
09-12-2015, 12:53 PM
I might end up just watching 'The Answer' after I complete the Male MC story-line. Anyway, an update on my Female MC: we're nearly out of summer vacation. I take it I'm now just over halfway through the game? The summer seems to demarcate the two terms rather neatly. I also sense that the story is going to get a lot more intense as we near Winter.

I'm really hooked, I'm so glad I saw Pumpkin's thread on it. I'm definitely going to go play Persona 4 as well. I take it 'Golden' is the updated version?

Also, Mr. Carny has expressed keen interest in the series as well from watching me play. Woo! :D

Fynn
09-12-2015, 12:58 PM
Everyone in the world needs to play this game. Really, there's no excuse.

And yeah, Golden is the updated version, and it adds a lot of new stuff, but none of it is really as necessary as the changes made to FES/P3P. So while you'll get a slightly bit more wholesome package with Golden, you'll be fine just playing regular P4 too.

Formalhaut
09-12-2015, 01:23 PM
Everyone in the world needs to play this game. Really, there's no excuse.

And yeah, Golden is the updated version, and it adds a lot of new stuff, but none of it is really as necessary as the changes made to FES/P3P. So while you'll get a slightly bit more wholesome package with Golden, you'll be fine just playing regular P4 too.

What do you think of Choco Boy's theory that all the stories will converge into one?

Fynn
09-12-2015, 01:25 PM
Doubt it. They converged some in Arena, but honestly, they want the new installments to be interesting to newcomers, and not convolute them by forcibly linking them to previous titles. While I personally believe everything wrong in the whole series is Nyarlathotep's doing, I don't think there's a need to really bring that into the forefront of the story. P5 doesn't look like anything we;ve seen yet, and I expect it will be as seperate from 3 and 4 as 3 and 4 are from 1 and 2.

Formalhaut
09-12-2015, 01:29 PM
Doubt it. They converged some in Arena, but honestly, they want the new installments to be interesting to newcomers, and not convolute them by forcibly linking them to previous titles. While I personally believe everything wrong in the whole series is Nyarlathotep's doing, I don't think there's a need to really bring that into the forefront of the story. P5 doesn't look like anything we;ve seen yet, and I expect it will be as seperate from 3 and 4 as 3 and 4 are from 1 and 2.

Nyarla- who?

Fynn
09-12-2015, 01:36 PM
Not familiar with Lovecraft, are ya?

This guy (?)
https://allthingshorror666.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/nyarlathotep-the-black-man-mr-x.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Nyarlathotep.jpg

Or, in Persona, this guy (?)

http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Nyarlathotep2.jpg
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/e/ea/Nyarlathotep.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090609083032
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090904095447/megamitensei/images/d/da/Nyarlathotepfatherfusion.jpg
http://mindlessones.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/nyar-aki.jpg

Essentially, the dark side of the collective unconscious. He wants nothing more than for people to just screw themselves over.

Formalhaut
09-12-2015, 01:45 PM
So is he the ultimate big bad of the series then?

Fynn
09-12-2015, 01:56 PM
Kind of. Although, in the spirit of the entire MegaTen franchise, the true big bad is humanity itself. Like I said, he's part of the collective unconscious. He's kind of an aspect of humanity, really, and wouldn't be there if it weren't for humans.

Formalhaut
09-12-2015, 02:13 PM
Kind of. Although, in the spirit of the entire MegaTen franchise, the true big bad is humanity itself. Like I said, he's part of the collective unconscious. He's kind of an aspect of humanity, really, and wouldn't be there if it weren't for humans.

Humanity is the big bad? What an interesting concept. Actually, Pharos mentioned something very vague to me in one of his creepy bedroom visitations, which gets me thinking maybe humanity is wishing for death.

Fynn
09-12-2015, 02:15 PM
Just keep playing, sweetie ;)

Formalhaut
09-12-2015, 02:22 PM
Just keep playing, sweetie ;)

I'm so excited for the Autumn semester! :hyper:

I also have a feeling that Ken and Shinjiro will be joining us soon at some point. It kinda has to happen, but I'm very curious to explore whatever backstory Akihiko, Ken and Shinji has.

I've been using Koro-chan since I've received him, and he seems like a better Junpei. More physically strong (he does some impressive damage) and has fire skills.

Fynn
09-12-2015, 02:24 PM
Junpei will get an upgrade soon, so don't discard my son yet!

NeoCracker
09-12-2015, 05:44 PM
I am not so much as going to hint as to why I am saying this for spoiler reasons, but for P4 I suggest playing the non-golden version first if possible. :p

Fynn
09-12-2015, 05:52 PM
Nah, Golden is fine as a starting point.

FFIX Choco Boy
09-12-2015, 06:23 PM
I will always hate the new voice actor for Chie in Golden. Chie was fine as she was! :colbert:

Fynn
09-12-2015, 07:20 PM
I prefer new Chie.

Bright Shield
09-12-2015, 08:03 PM
Don't say things like that, fynn. You'll attract bright shield and skyblade :p

Too late Mirage... I agree with him to an extent though. The Answer wasn't so great. However, it is canon to the main timeline. A crucial piece in fact. While sonething like the Fem MC route is irrelevant by any standard. :p

NeoCracker
09-12-2015, 08:23 PM
Nah, Golden is fine as a starting point.

And I cannot even explain why you are wrong so I don't ruin something! GAH!

Fynn
09-12-2015, 08:33 PM
Pumpkin played it as her first P4, and now so is my wife, and I really don't see there being a reason other than if you really hate Erin Fitzgerald's performance and want them to know the "true" P4 voice cast :p

NeoCracker
09-13-2015, 04:59 AM
Pumpkin played it as her first P4, and now so is my wife, and I really don't see there being a reason other than if you really hate Erin Fitzgerald's performance and want them to know the "true" P4 voice cast :p

Don't get me wrong, great way to play the game. Just has one thing that bothers me about it that makes the PS2 version better for you first play through. (This does not apply on subsequent play throughs however. :p)

Skyblade
09-13-2015, 06:30 AM
Pumpkin played it as her first P4, and now so is my wife, and I really don't see there being a reason other than if you really hate Erin Fitzgerald's performance and want them to know the "true" P4 voice cast :p

Don't get me wrong, great way to play the game. Just has one thing that bothers me about it that makes the PS2 version better for you first play through. (This does not apply on subsequent play throughs however. :p)

The fact that the opening video spoils the entire playable cast?

Fynn
09-13-2015, 07:21 AM
Pumpkin played it as her first P4, and now so is my wife, and I really don't see there being a reason other than if you really hate Erin Fitzgerald's performance and want them to know the "true" P4 voice cast :p

Don't get me wrong, great way to play the game. Just has one thing that bothers me about it that makes the PS2 version better for you first play through. (This does not apply on subsequent play throughs however. :p)

The fact that the opening video spoils the entire playable cast?

But so does the original.

Minato Arisato
09-13-2015, 06:05 PM
No starting off with the male MC? I am disappoint.

NeoCracker
09-13-2015, 06:14 PM
I need to finally play P3P so I can see the female route. :p

Formalhaut
09-13-2015, 06:25 PM
No starting off with the male MC? I am disappoint.

I'll play his route next!

Which leads me to a question, actually. So I'm aware that there's something called a 'new cycle' (New Game Plus, basically). Am I able to 'switch gender' as it were with this new cycle, or is it only a new cycle for the female protagonist?

Fynn
09-13-2015, 06:29 PM
You can switch, no problem. It's essentially New Game + - you get to keep your compendium.

Skyblade
09-13-2015, 06:30 PM
No starting off with the male MC? I am disappoint.

I'll play his route next!

Which leads me to a question, actually. So I'm aware that there's something called a 'new cycle' (New Game Plus, basically). Am I able to 'switch gender' as it were with this new cycle, or is it only a new cycle for the female protagonist?

You can. Keep in mind, however, that the male protagonist wields Short Swords, so he can't use any of the Naginatas that you have been collecting. This doesn't matter on the highest difficulty, since nothing transfers anyways, but it does affect the other difficulty settings. Also, you have to unlock the Compendium to get your Personas back.

Formalhaut
09-13-2015, 06:47 PM
No starting off with the male MC? I am disappoint.

I'll play his route next!

Which leads me to a question, actually. So I'm aware that there's something called a 'new cycle' (New Game Plus, basically). Am I able to 'switch gender' as it were with this new cycle, or is it only a new cycle for the female protagonist?

You can. Keep in mind, however, that the male protagonist wields Short Swords, so he can't use any of the Naginatas that you have been collecting. This doesn't matter on the highest difficulty, since nothing transfers anyways, but it does affect the other difficulty settings. Also, you have to unlock the Compendium to get your Personas back.

Oh well, I can just sell the naginatas. :p I'll be playing through the male story-line primarily for the story as opposed to the combat; I do intend to start Persona 4 sooner than later.

I heard in the previous versions of this game, you could swap out weapons. Why did they change it so that you stuck to one weapon type?

Fynn
09-13-2015, 06:50 PM
I honestly don't know. Probably to streamline things, I guess.

Formalhaut
09-13-2015, 06:53 PM
Not that I terribly mind. In fact it helps to differentiate your MC from your other characters. It makes you depend on your allies who may have different ways of attacking.

Bright Shield
09-13-2015, 07:45 PM
Pumpkin played it as her first P4, and now so is my wife, and I really don't see there being a reason other than if you really hate Erin Fitzgerald's performance and want them to know the "true" P4 voice cast :p

Don't get me wrong, great way to play the game. Just has one thing that bothers me about it that makes the PS2 version better for you first play through. (This does not apply on subsequent play throughs however. :p)

I'm curious about what you are referring to. Just use a spoiler tag.

NeoCracker
09-13-2015, 07:58 PM
I just PM'd it so he's not tempted to read the spoiler. :p

Formalhaut
09-20-2015, 01:50 PM
So, massive revelations in the final Full Moon event.

To be honest, I kinda sussed that Ikutsuki was a bad one. I always got a 'knew more than he was letting on' vibe from him. Not to mention that we're only in November and so there was obviously going to be a twist. I'm not convinced that Jin and Takaya are dead, to be honest.

In other news, I'm maxing out a whole heap of social links. I was doing Ken's social link and I felt fairly queasy that there's an option to romance him. In this play-through, I'm romancing Akihiko, because who wouldn't?

Fynn
09-20-2015, 02:04 PM
I romanced both Shinjiro and Akihiko :D I mean, Shinji was in a coma anyway, so who cares? :exdee:

Also, yeah, that twist was nasty, but I'm still gonna tell you what I told fat-moogle.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/65/05/13/6505136c3f023a8dc501233831a3772a.gif

And yeah, you can kinda romance Ken, but nothing inappropriate happens. It's more like, he vows to protect you and wants you to wait for him until he grows up, so it's kinda cute, though I imagine it could have been much creepier in the Japanese version, for obvious reasons :roll2 Apparently, something interesting happens in Tartarus if you romance both Akihiko and Ken and then have them both in your party.

Also, I'm really sad there wasn't a Junpei romance. I mean, on one hand, the reason is obvious, and I think it's great that him and the female character got such a deep loving relationship developed, and yet it's purely platonic, but Junpei's just this sweet cinnamon roll, too good for this world, too pure, and I would love that romance to be there :G

Formalhaut
09-20-2015, 02:24 PM
Oh, okay, I suppose the Ken romance doesn't seem 'so' inappropriate. Still, I'm not doing it though :p

In terms of Tartarus, I think I'm just about beginning to loathe it. Which is impressive, given that I'm at the 5th block. I find myself not using Aigis that much. She's not terribly strong, and she only makes up for it with a good endurance. She doesn't even possess any elemental skills.

Fynn
09-20-2015, 02:31 PM
She'll get some healing abilities soon.

Good news is, you're almost done with Tartarus! I'm impressed you're only now getting tired of it :p

Formalhaut
09-20-2015, 02:55 PM
She'll get some healing abilities soon.

Good news is, you're almost done with Tartarus! I'm impressed you're only now getting tired of it :p

Which is fulfilled aptly by Yukari, Ken and arguably Mitsuru. I'm not really seeing how Aigis is better than any other character. She plays like a physical attacker, without actually being that strong a physical attacker.

Though admittedly, I've not used Orgia mode yet on her. Maybe I should try that.

Fynn
09-20-2015, 02:56 PM
Orgia mode is what makes her stand out.

NeoCracker
09-20-2015, 07:30 PM
Without spoiling, every character will get an upgrade. After that happens, Aigis is both a solid attacker/tank, and is bar none the best support unit of your party. The all party stat boosts and full revive add an incredible amount of use to her.

Formalhaut
09-20-2015, 11:13 PM
Without spoiling, every character will get an upgrade. After that happens, Aigis is both a solid attacker/tank, and is bar none the best support unit of your party. The all party stat boosts and full revive add an incredible amount of use to her.

Fair enough! Characters tend to wax and wane in my play-through. I initially used Junpei rather exclusively due to his strong physical strength, but then Koromaru popped up and is currently stronger and has better fire skills. Mitsuru pops in and out based on the general vulnerability of enemies towards bufu on a block, as does Yukari. Ken is an odd fit, but I try to use him and Aki together if enemies are really weak towards zio; otherwise I keep them separate.

I'd say Aki is my favorite character. Since 'upgrading', the ma- versions of the attribute breaks he is now learning are very useful.

I'll see how Aigis performs in my next scale up Tartarus. Thanks guys!

Wolf Kanno
09-21-2015, 04:46 AM
I heard in the previous versions of this game, you could swap out weapons. Why did they change it so that you stuck to one weapon type?

To conserve space. The MC actually had different ways of using some of the weapons and considering how big this game was on the PS2 and how they had to change the Social aspect of the game into a point and click adventure to fit onto the little UMD, they probably just dropped it entirely. The sword was the first weapon given to him in the original. Though to make him a little unique, they modified it so Mitsuru exclusively uses the Rapier style swords and the MC uses the other types of one-handed swords in P3P. This also means that Akihiko was the only character who can use Strike Damage without a Persona for the majority of the game.




Also, I'm really sad there wasn't a Junpei romance. I mean, on one hand, the reason is obvious, and I think it's great that him and the female character got such a deep loving relationship developed, and yet it's purely platonic, but Junpei's just this sweet cinnamon roll, too good for this world, too pure, and I would love that romance to be there :G

You seem to forget that Junpei is spoken for which plays a huge role in shaping him as a character. ;)

Pumpkin
09-21-2015, 12:30 PM
Both of these games bash you over the head with their themes. A bit late but yeah xD. Not that theres anything wrong with that but neither is the most subtle in terms of story telling

Hollycat
09-22-2015, 02:29 AM
Not subtle, still great.

Fynn
09-22-2015, 05:46 AM
Honestly, what JRPG is subtle? The only Japanese games I've played that have any sort of subtlety are the Silent Hill series and anything by Yasumi Matsuno.

And Persona is still much more subtle than certain other RPGs that try to tell you how deep they are.

Formalhaut
09-26-2015, 01:38 AM
I'm nearing the end! I've just hit January. That dramatic change in music across the board really does hit home how close I am now to the final day.

It reminds me very much of The World Ends With You. You go through each day, but then you suddenly realize that "oh crap, I'm in the final week of the game". It really sets the mood rather somber.

I was rather surprised that I got to choose an ending. I chose the obviously bad ending first, just to see how it would turn out. Seems fairly ominous to me, with the characters reverting to how they were, somewhat. I reloaded my save and I'm now ascending the final block of Tartarus.

In regards to social links, I've managed to somehow max all of them except the Empress S.Link. My favorites are Hanged Man, Chariot, Justice, Star and probably Moon/Priestess. Though to be honest, they were all good. Even if they really piled on the violins for the Sun S.Link. I find it notable that the Hermit S.Link is one of the few I can think of to have a somewhat bittersweet ending to it. The Moon and Fortune S.Link had that as well, because of obvious reasons, and to a very small extent the Hanged Man S.Link too.

But I'm nearly towards the end now. It is rather sad, to be honest. I'm torn: when I finish this game, should I go and do the Male MC, or head on straight to Persona 4 Golden?

Wolf Kanno
09-26-2015, 04:57 AM
Move onto P4, no sense in burning yourself out on P3 by playing a new game after it. On the other hand, New Game + does make it a much less tedious affair.

Fynn
09-26-2015, 08:14 AM
Go for P4, like Wolf said. You risk serious burnout. Come back to it after you beat that.

A tip: if you want to experience the story of P4 to a full extent, keep this in mind - never settle for an okay answer. Dig deep to find the real truth, even if the game itself tells you that's enough.

Also, maxing party member social links is all the more important in 4, since all those various battle bonuses you gained in 3 by leveling up Fool, here you get through individual links.

And one more thing - Golden added two new Social Links, the Jester and Aeon. If you want to experience everything the game has to offer, I advise you to max them quick. As in, max aeon, but you'll only reach level 6 of Jester for... reasons :p

Formalhaut
09-26-2015, 12:57 PM
Will do!

I've a question also. The Paradigm Door has now appeared in Tartarus. What is it, and at what level should I enter?

Fynn
09-26-2015, 01:23 PM
I honestly have no idea, since I never tried it. I think it's just extra challenges if you're into that.

Formalhaut
09-26-2015, 01:29 PM
I honestly have no idea, since I never tried it. I think it's just extra challenges if you're into that.

I like me some extra challenges. I'll take a look after I've ascended all of Adamah.

Skyblade
09-26-2015, 08:46 PM
And Dancing All Night comes out on Tuesday, so you'd better beat Persona 4 quickly if you want to play immediately!

Formalhaut
09-26-2015, 10:53 PM
And Dancing All Night comes out on Tuesday, so you'd better beat Persona 4 quickly if you want to play immediately!

What's Dancing All Night?

Skyblade
09-27-2015, 05:26 AM
And Dancing All Night comes out on Tuesday, so you'd better beat Persona 4 quickly if you want to play immediately!

What's Dancing All Night?

A rhythm game spin off that has a canon story taking place after the events of Persona 4. Can't really talk much more about it without giving you some spoilers, at least for one team member.

Since you already got the Vita for Persona 4 Golden, you might as well get Persona 4: Dancing All Night. It looks like one the best rhythm games I've played in a long time. Even better than Theatrhythm, from what I've seen, at least from the mechanics and aesthetics, though FF does have a longer history, and thus more music, than Persona.

Mirage
09-27-2015, 05:43 AM
assuming he actually likes rhythm games

Fynn
09-27-2015, 05:45 AM
I know Formy plays Theatrhythm.

Because we were supposed to battle online.

And we never did.

:stare:

Formalhaut
09-27-2015, 11:18 AM
I know Formy plays Theatrhythm.

Because we were supposed to battle online.

And we never did.

:stare:

Hey, hey, we are playing at some point! Don't gimme that.

Anyway, before Persona 4, I still have to finish off January, which compared to December is going to take much longer. I've just entered Monad for the first time and geez, those enemies are tough! After breezing through most of Adamah, it came as a shock to have some enemies do some serious damage to me.

I've also opened the Paradigm Door. Some older sister of Theo (and presumably Elizabeth) called Margaret popped by and wanted to test my strength by defeating improved versions of the Arcana bosses, and some challenge doors. I've only just started, but it looks interesting.

Fynn
09-27-2015, 11:33 AM
Monad is the best place to grind if you want to get up to level 99. I kinda don't like how they made it inaccessible without beating the Reaper, since in the original this was the place where I prepared for that fight.

Formalhaut
09-27-2015, 11:49 AM
Monad is the best place to grind if you want to get up to level 99. I kinda don't like how they made it inaccessible without beating the Reaper, since in the original this was the place where I prepared for that fight.

Eh, The Reaper was okay. It was a longer battle than most, but most of the time it kept doing elemental breaks, and the odd insta-kill spell. It was okay. I had enough Homonculus on me that the death spells didn't connect (though I've now run out my stock entering Monad, ugh). No-one was in danger of dying, it just took awhile. I'd actually say Monad is tougher than The Reaper.

Those Void Giants are just evil.

Formalhaut
10-01-2015, 10:31 PM
I've finished the game! And wow, what an ending. I'll spoiler tag it, because of obviously heavy spoilers.


Like, I'm so angry right now. The Main Character dies! Now I did some reading about 'The Answer', the sort of epilogue of the game. And apparently, the MC isn't dead, but a massive barrier to prevent Nyx from touching Erebus, the manifestation of humanities's grief. I'm really rather upset she had to provide a seal.

I mean, I understand the thematics of it and it is a really compelling ending to the story, but...

Ugh, I really wanted everyone to be happy. That last day in March where everyone remembered again, only for you to fall asleep (I'm guessing she was living on borrowed time at that point? The ending didn't really make it clear) was saddening.

I really hope Persona 4 Golden has a happier time of it. :(

Fynn
10-01-2015, 10:40 PM
It's WAY happier. To a fault, actually. Diabeticay so, Id say.

I actually loved how bittersweet the ending is, because deep down, despite you dying, it really is the best thing that could happen. Especially since the main theme of he game is accepting death and making your life meaningful - the protagonist did just that and inspired the others to do the same :monster:

You're basically Jesus. Heck, your ultimate persona is the freakin' Messiah.

Formalhaut
10-01-2015, 10:49 PM
It's WAY happier. To a fault, actually. Diabeticay so, Id say.

I actually loved how bittersweet the ending is, because deep down, despite you dying, it really is the best thing that could happen. Especially since the main theme of he game is accepting death and making your life meaningful - the protagonist did just that and inspired the others to do the same :monster:

You're basically Jesus. Heck, your ultimate persona is the freakin' Messiah.

Which is why I'm conflicted. I understand why it is such a good ending, but at the same time, I just find it depressing.

I just hope that at some point in time, there is a happy ending. But then, I'm a sucker for happy endings. :p

Fynn
10-01-2015, 10:52 PM
Idk, call me weird, but I still find it to be a feel-good ending.

I mean, having everyone be happy is all well and good, but then real life doesn't have that and I just find it more comforting for a not completely happy ending, which is more realistic, to give me positive vibes.

But that's just my opinion :monster:

Formalhaut
10-01-2015, 11:12 PM
Idk, call me weird, but I still find it to be a feel-good ending.

I mean, having everyone be happy is all well and good, but then real life doesn't have that and I just find it more comforting for a not completely happy ending, which is more realistic, to give me positive vibes.

But that's just my opinion :monster:

I'm just an idealist. I'm aware that 'everyone is happy' is cheesy, sweet and diabetic, and arguably less profound perhaps but eh, sometimes I just want some feel good happiness in my life.

Hopefully I'll find it in Persona 4 Golden. But I don't have a PS Vita. I just checked the platform, and I assumed it was still the PSP, but no, it's the Vita. Ugh. I don't really want to shell out money a platform for one game (albeit a really good one).

There is the original Persona 4 for the PS2, which I do own, but I'm missing out on two social links and a whole heap of extras. Part of me is thinking to wait, but I'm really in love with the series and I don't want to stop so suddenly.

What to do, what to do... :ohdear:

Fynn
10-01-2015, 11:14 PM
Get a Vita, and also get Danganropna and P4: Dancing All Night. Danganronpa is a visual novel that's kinda like a more twisted version of Ace Attorney.

FFIX Choco Boy
10-01-2015, 11:35 PM
I would give my own opinion on the ending of P3 and why I find it to be one of the best endings to a JRPG I've ever played, and how I really have no issues for it, but I'm not good with words and can't really articulate my feelings in any coherent way.

But you've got to admit. When Igor says he's never seen the Universe card before, and didn't expect to, a part of you feels really good for the main character. He literally summons the power of creation itself - for a brief moment, he becomes a god and finds the answer to life itself. Sure, he dies in the process, but semantics, semantics. And the awesomeness of facing the personification of death itself alone, and with a single finger raised and winning (kind of) was seriously one of the most epic moments I've ever witnessed; especially since the game took it seriously and "realistically", where your character isn't really trouncing death like it's nothing, to the point of it being almost comical, but actually only barely being a match for it.

And "Memories of You" playing in the credits is just a feels trip on its own.

Formalhaut
10-02-2015, 07:32 PM
So I was looking at various prices, and apparently there's also this system called Playstation TV, which allows you to play 'most' PS Vita games on a larger television, which certainly sounds appealing. Furthermore, the official website confirms that Persona 4 Golden is one of the compatible games for the microconsole. You can play PS Vita games by either downloading them to the device, or inserting the game card directly.

Its price has been slashed very harshly: it is currently marketing at £44-ish (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PVHEHWSNY81823-PlayStation-TV/dp/B00KJG45AQ). And apparently, P4: Dancing All Night will also be compatible with PS TV (http://www.siliconera.com/2015/02/16/persona-4-dancing-night-producer-shares-latest-details/) according to what people are saying.

Taken at face value, it seems like an absolute steal at £44-ish, for essentially a microconsole which plays Vita games on a larger screen. What do you guys think? It almost seems too good to be true.

Fynn
10-02-2015, 07:39 PM
Vita has one advantage over that though - portability. Which is a pretty big deal for me, but am different strokes for different folks :monster: You should also check if the Danganronpas are compatible because I'm telling you you're probably gonna love them.

Formalhaut
10-02-2015, 07:55 PM
I tend to play handheld systems at home anyway, so! Portability isn't a big deal for me, but I will check if Danganronpas is on there.

The main thing is the cost. I was checking at the actual PS Vita and that looks more expensive.

Pumpkin
10-02-2015, 07:58 PM
Well dang it I want the PS TV now

Shauna
10-02-2015, 09:37 PM
Danganronpa 1 is not compatible for reasons unknown.

Formalhaut
10-02-2015, 09:55 PM
Danganronpa 1 is not compatible for reasons unknown.

I've heard this as well, but there are conflicting sources regarding it.

Either way, I'm here predominantly for Persona 4 Golden, P4: Dancing All Night and I'll probably end up investigating other Vita exclusives as well that I couldn't play before.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I'll purchase the PS TV and a copy of Persona 4 Golden. Here's hoping the PS TV works exactly as intended. :)

Skyblade
10-03-2015, 06:12 AM
So I was looking at various prices, and apparently there's also this system called Playstation TV, which allows you to play 'most' PS Vita games on a larger television, which certainly sounds appealing. Furthermore, the official website confirms that Persona 4 Golden is one of the compatible games for the microconsole. You can play PS Vita games by either downloading them to the device, or inserting the game card directly.

Its price has been slashed very harshly: it is currently marketing at £44-ish (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PVHEHWSNY81823-PlayStation-TV/dp/B00KJG45AQ). And apparently, P4: Dancing All Night will also be compatible with PS TV (http://www.siliconera.com/2015/02/16/persona-4-dancing-night-producer-shares-latest-details/) according to what people are saying.

Taken at face value, it seems like an absolute steal at £44-ish, for essentially a microconsole which plays Vita games on a larger screen. What do you guys think? It almost seems too good to be true.

G1VUXNJOr6Y

GameXplain's review of Dancing All Night is the only first-hand account I've heard from someone who has actually used PSTV (it's mentioned near the end of the review, at 9:08). He mentions that there is some input lag, and an occasional sound cutout before and after songs. Other than that, however, he says it functions fine, and says it's worth getting even for that platform.

FFIX Choco Boy
10-03-2015, 07:56 AM
I've watched a few hours of a guy playing P4DAN on the PSTV. He didn't really mention any input lag, but I've noticed that the story is... different. I figured it would just be a dancing game, but, no, it's got quite the story to it, too. And lots, and lots, (and lots) of fanservice. Including most of the girls' extra sounds in their dances consisting of only "oohs" and "ahs". Even Nanako a little bit, too. It kind of creeped me out a bit. Having said that, though, the music is still top notch (would be better if you could turn off in-song character speech), and the gameplay seems to be on par with most rhythm games that aren't Project DIVA. But Rise's voice actress changed, and the new one, while not bad in most of her roles, really does NOT fit Rise. Every time she talks I want to scream in terror.

Fynn
10-03-2015, 08:36 AM
That's Ashly Bunch of HAWP.

syoJhiXLRPc

She's actually a really good voice actor and has played Rei in Persona Q. Still, hearing Rise voiced by anyone that isn't Laura Bailey is just wrong.

I still love how Matt Mercer and Troy Baker sound identical as Kanji.

Scotty_ffgamer
10-03-2015, 07:58 PM
I'm pretty positive I heard you can turn off character speech during the songs.

FFIX Choco Boy
10-03-2015, 09:41 PM
Oh, good. The guy I was watching was one of those people that the first thing he does when he starts a new game is NOT going into the config and making sure everything's perfect! :erm:

Formalhaut
10-03-2015, 11:11 PM
Another good thing I've noticed is that Persona 4: Arena Ultimax is on the PS3, which I do own, so that's a win.

Skyblade
10-04-2015, 12:41 AM
Another good thing I've noticed is that Persona 4: Arena Ultimax is on the PS3, which I do own, so that's a win.

Ultimax is a direct sequel to Persona 4 Arena, and you will miss a LOT of background info if you don't play Arena first. It's also for PS3.

Formalhaut
10-04-2015, 12:46 AM
Another good thing I've noticed is that Persona 4: Arena Ultimax is on the PS3, which I do own, so that's a win.

Ultimax is a direct sequel to Persona 4 Arena, and you will miss a LOT of background info if you don't play Arena first. It's also for PS3.

Ooo. I thought the Ultimax title indicated an improved or updated version, sort of like how Street Fighter 'ultra', 'mega', 'ultimate' and other buzzwords before finally starting a new numbered entry.

I'll be sure to purchase Arena first.

Skyblade
10-04-2015, 04:20 AM
Another good thing I've noticed is that Persona 4: Arena Ultimax is on the PS3, which I do own, so that's a win.

Ultimax is a direct sequel to Persona 4 Arena, and you will miss a LOT of background info if you don't play Arena first. It's also for PS3.

Ooo. I thought the Ultimax title indicated an improved or updated version, sort of like how Street Fighter 'ultra', 'mega', 'ultimate' and other buzzwords before finally starting a new numbered entry.

I'll be sure to purchase Arena first.

In terms of mechanics, this is true. The original Persona 4 Arena released as an arcade game with no story mode. Several DLC characters were added over time. The console version (which was being worked on at the same time) was developed with a full story.

After the first version was completed, ATLUS begin writing a sequel, as Arc System Works began working on slightly tweaking the characters, mechanics, and developing more characters. While the second version released in arcades as Persona 4 Ultimax, and featured little more than the mechanical refinements, the home port again had an entirely new and separate story mode. It follows after the events of the first game. They tweaked how it is formatted as well, so the story doesn't follow the same structure as the original game.

Scotty_ffgamer
10-04-2015, 05:09 AM
I think ultimax has dlc that includes the story mode of the original arena too.

Formalhaut
10-05-2015, 01:24 PM
I've begun playing Persona 4 Golden! I have to say, I'm really enjoying myself so far. The character interactions are hilarious. I'm on the 1st of May, so I have three teammates: Chie, Yosuke, and Yukiko.

Admittedly, the intro video does spoil who will end up becoming my final party, but I don't mind that so much, that intro was so funny and hippie.

I'm liking the non-playable characters as well. I like Dojima and Nanako, and how obviously their relationship is strained. I imagine that will be resolved by the story's end. The school is good, and the source of many S.Links. I've started the Chariot and Sun links currently.

I'm really surprised how early you can start the Aeon S.Link. In P3P, it could only be activated in the final month of the game. I guess that explains why the weakest Aeon persona is Lv. 18.

In regards to combat, I like it. The lack of a clock is going to really bother me though, as I still use SP like I drink water to get All Out Attacks and strike weaknesses. Yosuke is proving to be a very powerful teammate. Chie is as well, though she ends up slipping more often than other characters. Fortunately, the newly introduced bonuses you get from Party S.Links means that Yosuke can help her back up.

There's more player stats to level up, which will be an added challenge. Anyway, I'm really enjoying it. Mr. Carny watched a few minutes and he seems really excited to play that as well (he's still on P3P, end of September).

Fynn
10-05-2015, 02:51 PM
You'll get an SP replenishing method soon enough, so don't worry. P4G is WAY easier than P3, even on normal difficulty.

Also, the Aeon S. Link starts early one, but you have less time to max it than most links. Same goes for Justice, Hierophant and Jester, so keep that in mind.

I'm really glad you're enjoying this series ;) While I think P3 is the better game with a story I just adore, P4, despite its flaws, is also amazingly fun ;)

On another note, I just finished Persona Q yesterday and I can tell you that it was also really fun. While the gameplay is different (much more in the vein of hardcore, old-school RPGs - you even need to draw your own map) and the story certainly isn't on par with 3 and 4, the gameplay is really rewarding and the interactions between the casts of P3 and P4 are very amusing. So you might want to check it out later. See some reviews or gameplay to make sure it's your cup of tea first, but if that doesn't put you off, I think you'll enjoy it :up:

NeoCracker
10-05-2015, 03:23 PM
I haven't played the hand held versions, but Sleeping Table aside, I actually felt P4 was the harder game. And I played on the hard difficult for both. :p

Fynn
10-05-2015, 03:52 PM
The revamped shuffle time mechanics kinda break the difficulty. My wife beat the last four or five dungeons with just a Decarabia with Megidolaon, since she kept getting magic bonuses, and the Persona ended up with max magic. She was over level 90 in the last dungeon despite devoting no time on grinding (heck, in the last two dungeons she literally avoided all battles) and wrecked the final boss (true ending) to pieces.

Seriously, while Persona may be difficult compared to FF, FF is one of the easiest series out there. Seriously, Persona has nothing on mainline MegaTen at least.

Wolf Kanno
10-05-2015, 11:52 PM
Strange Journey and SMT1 are calling Fynn... :zombie:

Fynn
10-06-2015, 05:57 AM
Funny thing is, SMT1 is still on my phone and I'm pretty far in without much trouble. It's just that, I really haven't played it in a long while and have kind of lost track of what I'm doing and where I'm going. It's too much effort to restart, but when I try to play it again, I just cannot get into it. What should I do? Is there any news on SMTII coming out on iOS in English? Maybe that'd motivate me more.

And Strange Journey is still in my top 10, so I'm definitely going to give it another shot one day :up: But not right now. Persona Q kinda burned me out on first person labirynths, and Strabge Journey is just as involving.

Formalhaut
10-06-2015, 02:43 PM
Status update!

I enjoyed it so much (that, and I've been rather ill since Sunday) I'm now in June, back in the TV World to rescue Rise. I kinda accidently blew most of my money upgrading everyone's equipment so I'm down to two Personas, until I can earn enough to resummon. I've decided, money is harder to find in this game. It may be because the Wealth Hands are so much harder to kill. I don't think they have a weakness either. It is fairly annoying. Another annoyance is Teddie's inferiority as support. He's funny and motivational, but his ability to analyse is sub-par. I do suspect that Rise will assume command of this however: it is about that time in the game where your primary support character comes into play (Fuuka?).

In story-line news, Dojima is beginning to suspect me, albeit subtly. Nanako is still adorable as ever, and Adachi is beginning to raise a few flags. I'm not entirely sure what it is about him, but something seems off. It could be that I immediately suspect his 'too goofy it hurts' personality. I mean, Yosuke is goofy but he's fairly intelligent beneath it all, same with Chie. Adachi... how did he get employed? Either way, I love murder mysteries, and I know by now it the culprit is usually someone who you meet within the first half of the story. And it being a game, it is going to be a major recurring character as well.

I've literally got nothing else but a feeling about Adachi, and I'm keeping my options open. But I am keeping an eye on him.

Another thing: Kanji. I do feel the game writers take a rather caricatured stance towards his (still fairly ambiguous) sexuality. They never use the word 'gay' or 'bisexual' in any of the dialogue (as of yet). Yosuke's reaction is fairly crappy, especially in the tent scene. I expected somewhat better, or more enlightened responses by the young cast. Really the person who took it well the most was Kanji himself.

Which leads me to a small gripe about Aigis as well. Towards the end of her S.Link, it becomes fairly obvious she has feelings for you (even if they are never fully explained, it is quite clearly romantic feelings), as evidenced by the 'I'm not male... I'm not even human!'. My reaction to that was... and? I do hope Persona 5 gives you the option of romancing or dating male characters. It's really only a small gripe, but one that does nag. I may just be overthinking it though.

Fynn
10-06-2015, 03:01 PM
The thing about Kanji is that, in my interpretation (and you know my attitude toward LGBT representation), is not in fact gay. His problems mostly stem from his feminine interests and how that conflicts with what men are "supposed" to be. It's more about the struggle with the toxic image of hegemonic masculinity, where you start to believe that if you don't fit the norm, you obviously have to be gay, and everyone will think that. It's a minor spoiler, but it's not that what you see in the shadows and the TV world is just your inner hidden thoughts - it's societal expectation as well. So yeah, Kanji is my favorite character because his struggle with the performance of masculinity is something I've gone through myself. And then the whole thing with the Naoto happens, making him even more confused about himself, and theres your shadow.

I'm not saying Kanji isn't bi (though for spoilerific reasons, I do believe that he isn't gay), but despite the imagery of his shadow suggesting his issue is with his repressed sexuality, I really do t think his sexuality is relevant here at all. It's all about dealing with patriarchal models of masculinity, with a bit of teenage confusion added in for good measure.

And yeah, Yosuke's kind of a sexist, homophobic dickhole, so even though he doesn't have that much issue with you being the leader as Junpei had, I still vastly prefer Junpei as your magician-arcana BFF. It's all pretty ironic considering Yosuke was meant to be the gay option for the protagonist but was dummied out.

Formalhaut
10-06-2015, 03:23 PM
The thing about Kanji is that, in my interpretation (and you know my attitude toward LGBT representation), is not in fact gay. His problems mostly stem from his feminine interests and how that conflicts with what men are "supposed" to be. It's more about the struggle with the toxic image of hegemonic masculinity, where you start to believe that if you don't fit the norm, you obviously have to be gay, and everyone will think that. It's a minor spoiler, but it's not that what you see in the shadows and the TV world is just your inner hidden thoughts - it's societal expectation as well. So yeah, Kanji is my favorite character because his struggle with the performance of masculinity is something I've gone through myself. And then the whole thing with the Naoto happens, making him even more confused about himself, and theres your shadow.

I'm not saying Kanji isn't bi (though for spoilerific reasons, I do believe that he isn't gay), but despite the imagery of his shadow suggesting his issue is with his repressed sexuality, I really do t think his sexuality is relevant here at all. It's all about dealing with patriarchal models of masculinity, with a bit of teenage confusion added in for good measure.

And yeah, Yosuke's kind of a sexist, homophobic dickhole, so even though he doesn't have that much issue with you being the leader as Junpei had, I still vastly prefer Junpei as your magician-arcana BFF. It's all pretty ironic considering Yosuke was meant to be the gay option for the protagonist but was dummied out.

I definitely saw Kanji's problems towards hegemonic masculinity as well. I don't believe he is gay either. I had a fairly humorous scene with my MC, Yosuke and Kanji in Okina, where the entire mission was to 'pick up girls' (which kinda made me cringe). I'd say it is more likely he's bisexual, but more likely to say that it isn't really an issue for him anymore.

Any idea why they dummied the idea of a gay relationship out of the game?

Fynn
10-06-2015, 03:36 PM
No clue. Time constraints, maybe? They even had English dialogue recorded, though.

0Ogh3mdPHsA

"But he only says 'I like you!'" you may say, but the Japanese dialog actually uses a phrasing that is typical of a confession of love, so yeah.

Still, it would be oddly glaring to me to have Yosuke of all people as a gay option. Heck, despite me not believing that he's gay, I still think Kanji would be a better choice.

Formalhaut
10-06-2015, 03:50 PM
No clue. Time constraints, maybe? They even had English dialogue recorded, though.

0Ogh3mdPHsA

"But he only says 'I like you!'" you may say, but the Japanese dialog actually uses a phrasing that is typical of a confession of love, so yeah.

Still, it would be oddly glaring to me to have Yosuke of all people as a gay option. Heck, despite me not believing that he's gay, I still think Kanji would be a better choice.

I agree. I do think Yosuke is ultimately a good guy, and I do enjoy his humor at times, but he does have some issues. I just find it funny in a game where you are the silent protagonist and you choose practically everything they say and do, to have only female options as a 'lovers route'.

Fynn
10-06-2015, 03:59 PM
Well, you know Japan. They're surprisingly backwards in that regard, especially considering how they handle sexuality :monster: Seriously, thriving gay communities represented in the Yaoi, Yuri and Bara genres (among others), and yet it's still stigmatized in the mainstream. What is up with that?

Formalhaut
10-06-2015, 04:04 PM
Well, you know Japan. They're surprisingly backwards in that regard, especially considering how they handle sexuality :monster: Seriously, thriving gay communities represented in the Yaoi, Yuri and Bara genres (among others), and yet it's still stigmatized in the mainstream. What is up with that?

And of course when it is mentioned it is through the use of a bathhouse :p

I am hoping for better things in Persona 5. The game already seems rather... different from what I'm used to.

Fynn
10-06-2015, 04:08 PM
It looks very similar to the older titles in a weird way, 2 especially (which I also highly recommend; 1 - not so much).

Wolf Kanno
10-07-2015, 12:56 AM
The interesting thing here is that Persona 2: Innocent Sin actually does give you a form of the gay option. The game doesn't really hide the fact Jun likes Tatsuya more than just as a friend.

Skyblade
10-07-2015, 02:58 AM
Maybe they had planned a gay option with Yosuke before realizing that it wouldn't really work for the character?

Fynn
10-07-2015, 07:03 AM
Could be, though what puzzles me is that it's been axed late enough in development to have English voice acting. I can't find anything else about it, though :(

Formalhaut
10-08-2015, 01:30 PM
It's a shame they axed a gay option without replacing it. To be honest, I can just about see Yosuke working as one. He's not a bad guy, but he definitely reacts uncomfortably and aggressively whenever confronted by Kanji's much more liberal, relaxed nature towards his masculinity and possibly sexuality. It's always Yosuke who calls out your character or Kanji for making any sort of remark, though he sounds more concerned if the MC says anything.

I remember vividly the scene in school where Yosuke comes up with the idea to go to the beach and for everyone to get their licences, and your character is asked who you're looking forward to seeing the most (bit of an cringe question, but there you go). You can actually select Kanji, which not only invokes concerned surprise by everyone, Yosuke goes a step further and yells at you to cut that crap out (the voice acting makes it sound aggressive too). I can kinda almost buy a repressed sexuality manifesting as a masculine exterior.

Of course, that's just mere speculation. I saw this nickname that sums up his character best: Brosuke. That basically is who he his. He's a good guy who does genuinely cares for people, but cannot bring himself to accept most kinds of male femininity, and gets borderline confrontational if that somehow creeps into his best friends, particularly your MC. Yosuke is closest to the MC, the two kinda lead the team together and have known each other from the start of the game, and Yosuke's shadow is the first the MC confronts. Yosuke frequently asks your opinion on girls to you. Given his personality, I can see Yosuke get concerned if he thinks his fellow 'bro' either has a feminine side or (though you unfortunately can't explore this option) be gay.

I mean, I've not explored half of the game yet, I'm now in late August. Still another semester to go! Question, the game ended on 1/31 in P3P. When does the game end here?

Fynn
10-08-2015, 02:01 PM
March, though the game skips quite a bit. There's a culmination in December, and then you just have more time for social links until March and the endgame rolls along. The pacing is kinda really bad in this game compared to P3 :p

Formalhaut
10-08-2015, 02:10 PM
Ah I see, thanks. The pacing is only really noticeable when I rescue someone and I have to wait a week or two for them to recover (in other words, pass the already completed deadline). That just leaves me time for social links though.

To be honest, I'm really enjoying Persona 4 Golden, and I'm arguably enjoying it more than P3P. One thing I like about the game is just the amount of character interaction in this game. Everyone is so expressive.

Mr. Carnelian
10-10-2015, 08:01 PM
This is the bit where I hijack the thread. Move over, Formy!
https://31.media.tumblr.com/eb08bf06a87c6d049a855366f01061b3/tumblr_inline_n1xuq7egEO1qbop0s.gif

I just finished playing Persona 3 Portable for the first time, playing as the female protagonist. That ending was pretty brutal. :cry:

The characters were a definite strong point of the game, at least for the most part. Yes, there are a lot of cliches thrown in to the character mix (A robot woman who wants to be more human and ends up falling in love with a main character. Never seen that before...:roll2). But, they all grew on me as the game went on, even pervy Junpei (turns out all he needed to stop being such a massive perv is to fall in love. Wow, brilliant message there). Apart from Ken. Ken is just too creepy. NOTHING IS EVER GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN US YOU IRRITATING PRE-TEEN, LEAVE ME ALONE! :mad2:

Good game. Some slight pacing problems, but very good. Roll on Persona 4!

Fynn
10-10-2015, 09:47 PM
Junpei is the best video game character ever :colbert: And I can't elaborate on why now since I don't have all night and really, I could write an essay on that topic :p

Skyblade
10-10-2015, 10:26 PM
Junpei is the best video game character ever :colbert: And I can't elaborate on why now since I don't have all night and really, I could write an essay on that topic :p

Lies!
65687
Aigis is best. :D

Formalhaut
10-10-2015, 10:33 PM
The funny thing is, he didn't realize that the MC died until I told him how obvious it was that the MC died, and didn't just 'fall asleep'. He only found it brutal after he realized what happened. :p

Anyway, he's already playing Persona 4, and enjoying it so far.

Fynn
10-10-2015, 10:40 PM
Junpei is the best video game character ever :colbert: And I can't elaborate on why now since I don't have all night and really, I could write an essay on that topic :p

Lies!
65687
Aigis is best. :D

While not a bad choice, I WILL fight you on this, Sky :stare:

Sorta related - Junpei was actually my "destined partner" in Q, so... :erm:

Minato Arisato
10-14-2015, 01:58 AM
I like Aigis the most. She's super nice and adorable.

Junpei's a real jerk unless you play as the FeMC.

(Am I still salty that I got friend-zoned by him? Yes, I am.)

Formalhaut
10-19-2015, 06:48 PM
In the battle of the of Magician people, I'm going to have to lean towards Brosuke. We've discussed his obvious issue with effeminacy, something which is highlighted in the Culture Festival. Having said that, I do feel like he doesn't deliberately go out of his way to be offensive, at worst, he's ignorant. I'd see him as a product of his culture. Mr. Carny was telling me about Japan's attitude and conflation of homosexuality, transvestism and trans issues, often confusing one for the other.

One story he told me when he was over there for his exchange was when a Japanese housemate discovered he was gay, and was utterly bewildered that he wasn't wearing female clothes (as if they were one and the same). I see Yosuke as the same type of deal. Means well, but really has a lack of understanding. I'd go so far to say that most of the characters share this as well. Chie and Yukiko hardly go to Kanji's defense and support his alternative approach to masculinity and are happy to keep quiet.

I deliberately went out of my way to be as inclusive as the options allowed me with my MC, deliberately choosing the affirmative options where possible, and choosing the 'comfortable with my sexuality' options during the Culture Festival, like sitting in the girls area of the group date. If I have a complaint, I wish this game gave me more option to counter Yosuke's ignorance. Times where I wanted to interject with my MC and go all inclusive I was restrained and held back.

But in regards to the story, things are really heating up. I've been busy so Mr. Carny has nearly caught up with my date in the story, but I'll still put this part in tags.


I kinda called that Nanako would be kidnapped, if only because she is the quintessential victim. She even stares at a T.V throughout much of the game. Still, that section of her kidnapping, your unfortunate arrest, all creates a perfect storm allowing her to be kidnapped, and I got them feels, because Nanako dammit. I rescued Nanako rather early, because Big Bro is worried. Her dungeon in the T.V world is pretty unsettling as well, as we learn the true extent of her grief over her mother's death. It hurts more as I finished Nanako and Dojima's S.Link before this all happened. Still, I rescued her, and caught Namatame.

I was never convinced he was the true culprit, to be honest (I hadn't even obtained my Judgement S.Link yet), and I managed to diffuse the situation. I'm on the day just before the round of investigations in town. I feel like I'll learn of the true culprit on that day. But yeah, from November till presumably the end of the original game, it is just one revelation to another. It does feel rather compact. I remember P3P spacing out the massive revelations throughout October, November and December, and even then they were one day pieces. You are more 'on rails' during some segments of the game, which is fine by me, to be honest. I enjoy watching the big event set pieces.

As for who I think the true culprit is, I've kinda always suspected Adachi. If there's one thing both P3P and P4G don't do well, is masking their true villain. Ikutski was way too creepy-friendly, and Adachi is sort of leaning the same way. That and his goofy detective act seems somewhat suspicious. I suppose I'll see tomorrow in-game, but I'm really suspecting Adachi. Mr. Carny suspected Dojima at one point so anything is possible, I guess.

As for characters, I got Naoto. She seems great, even if her Persona seems rather overpowered. She has no weaknesses. Otherwise, she seems awesome and very intelligent for a 15-16 year old, but then, she is a detective as well, so gee, we'll probably end up seeing a 15 year old quantum physicist next.

My progress with the S.Links is going very well too. I'd say my favorite one so far is arguably Marie, Nanako or Eri. Nanako is just sweetness personified.

Fynn
10-19-2015, 07:12 PM
Oh man, don't get me started on Marie :roll2 I did enjoy the "drips of her raging pathos" though :p

FFIX Choco Boy
10-19-2015, 10:51 PM
Relating to what Formy said:

I cried many multiple times for the Nanako stuff.

Formalhaut
10-20-2015, 12:41 AM
Oh man, don't get me started on Marie :roll2 I did enjoy the "drips of her raging pathos" though :p

Do you not like Marie? I LOVE Marie? She's a great character!

Fynn
10-20-2015, 05:53 AM
She's a walking tsundere cliché. I really find nothing interesting about her. While the characters in P4 are less realistic than P3's, they were still interesting enough to be great, subverting many Japanese media stereotypes. Besides the joke that her poems get constantly read by others, which is beaten to death, I really found her to be a very weak addition to the plot.

Oh yeah, and that's another reason why I dislike her. She is introduced into the main plot, not just a social link. She is given incredible importance, even though the story was fine and self-contained without her. And the way her social links were done - how all your friends like her so much, implying that, hey, she's so cool, you should love her too - she's the walking definition of a Mary Sue. Bottom line: she's exactly what you'd find in a P4 self-insert fanfic. And not one of the good ones.

Wolf Kanno
10-20-2015, 06:02 AM
At least she was (thankfully) sidelined in Ultimax.

Fynn
10-20-2015, 01:06 PM
I forgot the Arena games existed. I'm kinda glad I never got into them, though.

Formalhaut
10-20-2015, 05:13 PM
Are the Arena games bad? Because I do intend on playing the side games after I've finished Golden.

I suppose the reason why I like Marie is precisely because I haven't played the original, so for me, 'this' is the plot. And I guess her S.Link paints her in a good light, but it may also be more of a commentary on how nice your friends are as well. I don't know, I just never felt like I disliked Marie.

If anything, of all the major characters in the game, I'd say I've warmed to Rise the least. She's a nice character, but she can be very passive aggressive at times, especially towards Kanji.

Wolf Kanno
10-20-2015, 06:44 PM
The Arena games are not bad. I feel the first game has the better plot but Ultimax did a better job telling the story since the first game's stories get a bit redundant as you play through each character's arc. I think my real issue with them is that I was hoping for the big bad to be someone else who could really twist a knife into the franchise and instead it was nothing really special. Labrys was also a better character than Sho with a significantly better backstory.

The other issue with them is that I felt the games Flanderized the characters a bit too much. The P3 cast became incredibly eccentric and the P4 cast sounded like Care Bears. Overall, they are not bad games and I still recommend playing them, but they don't measure up as the "sequel" either game deserved. They're still really fun fighting games though.

Formalhaut
10-20-2015, 06:57 PM
The Arena games are not bad. I feel the first game has the better plot but Ultimax did a better job telling the story since the first game's stories get a bit redundant as you play through each character's arc. I think my real issue with them is that I was hoping for the big bad to be someone else who could really twist a knife into the franchise and instead it was nothing really special. Labrys was also a better character than Sho with a significantly better backstory.

The other issue with them is that I felt the games Flanderized the characters a bit too much. The P3 cast became incredibly eccentric and the P4 cast sounded like Care Bears. Overall, they are not bad games and I still recommend playing them, but they don't measure up as the "sequel" either game deserved. They're still really fun fighting games though.

It's probably a case of importing the P3 characters into a P4 series entry. I've yet to play it, so I'll report back on that front. I imagine P4: Dancing All Night may also end up making the P4 cast slightly more diabetic than they were before. Then again, I love diabetes, so I'd probably end up enjoying both games regardless.

So is the Arena duology and Dancing All Night canon? What about Persona Q? That mashed up both casts, is that canon too?

Wolf Kanno
10-20-2015, 07:06 PM
Arena series and Dancing all Night are canon, PQ is kind of in limbo as the creators keep changing their mind when asked.

Fynn
10-20-2015, 07:42 PM
The story of Q is done in such a way that it's canonicity is completely irrelevant as everyone forgets everything about everything anyway :monster: It's also painfully fanficky, but the character interactions and game mechanics make up for it, so really, if you go into this game, just don't worry about the plot too much.

We just can't see eye to eye now, can we, as I happen to ADORE Rise :love:

Formalhaut
10-20-2015, 07:55 PM
The story of Q is done in such a way that it's canonicity is completely irrelevant as everyone forgets everything about everything anyway :monster: It's also painfully fanficky, but the character interactions and game mechanics make up for it, so really, if you go into this game, just don't worry about the plot too much.

We just can't see eye to eye now, can we, as I happen to ADORE Rise :love:

Oh goodness, a game that ends with all the events being undone? Bold choice. Bold choice.

I like Rise for everything but her passive aggressive streak. She doesn't treat Kanji very well. Her voice was annoying for me as well, at first, but I'm much more used to it.

Of the main playable cast, I'd have to say I like Kanji the most, especially when you do his S.Link and develop his character more. And Chie; she has great interactions with most of the cast.

Fynn
10-20-2015, 08:02 PM
Yeh, Kanji is the best. Big guy who's actually adorable is an instant win for me. Rise is a close second, though. In fact, I think her voice is one of the reasons I love her so much.

Formalhaut
10-20-2015, 10:54 PM
Why do you think Atlus did a long time doing P4/P3 cast revisits? That's Arena, Arena Ultimax, Persona Q and Dancing All Night. That's quite alot of games!

Not that I'm complaining, I love the cast of the games and I'd never miss the chance to spend time with them, but it is quite alot of side games.

NeoCracker
10-21-2015, 01:14 AM
Why do you think Atlus did a long time doing P4/P3 cast revisits? That's Arena, Arena Ultimax, Persona Q and Dancing All Night. That's quite alot of games!

Not that I'm complaining, I love the cast of the games and I'd never miss the chance to spend time with them, but it is quite alot of side games.

Because Atlus are whores. Like dear god, they may be the biggest whores of the gaming industry.

That said they are Classy whores, and I like me a whore with class.

Fynn
10-21-2015, 05:48 AM
They're not whores. They're a company that makes money for a living. They know the Persona stuff will sell well, as the games have been huge hits. But despite the P3/4 stuff being a bit too... uh, everywhere, at least they haven't lost track of what makes a good game, and we still get lots of awesome SMT games, not just more Persona.

Formalhaut
10-21-2015, 05:52 AM
They're not whores. They're a company that makes money for a living. They know the Persona stuff will sell well, as the games have been huge hits. But despite the P3/4 stuff being a bit too... uh, everywhere, at least they haven't lost track of what makes a good game, and we still get lots of awesome SMT games, not just more Persona.

Although, Persona has become one of my favorite game series, so I'm more than happy to throw money at Persona. Persona 5 looks very interesting, though I saw a screenshot where you... fought demons? The crew were fighting Pyro Jack and Sandman. Aren't they your personas? Your allies?

Fynn
10-21-2015, 06:22 AM
See Persona 1 and 2, as well as the rest of the MegaTen series :p

Coming back to the topic of canonicity - SMT IV pretty much confirmed what SMT III suggested. SMT III introduced the Amala network, which connect different dimensions to each other, which is why despite many of the games taking place in different timelines, they are actually still connected. SMT IV builds on this saying different decisions just create different universes, meaning all endings to all games are actually canon. Yes, that means even the female path of P3 is canon, even if not to the main Persona timeline.

Also, an interesting thing to note is that all the Persona games take place in one timeline together with the Devil summoner games, which all branched off SMT if..., which is an alternate continuity to SMT 1 where the apocalypse never happened. So Persona is a lot closer to demons roaming wild than you'd think :D

Mr. Carnelian
10-28-2015, 12:35 AM
Yeh, Kanji is the best. Big guy who's actually adorable is an instant win for me.

Kanji IS the best. He's such a sweetie. :) He's actually my favourite character in the Persona series so far.

I've nearly finished Persona 4 Golden, by the way. I'm on the last day dungeon. I prefer 4 to 3, on the whole. 3 was so unrelentingly dark that I found it a bit of a slog towards the end. 4 is more optimistic, which suits me much better.

Mirage
10-28-2015, 02:25 AM
things can get too optimistic too.

Vyk
10-28-2015, 06:06 PM
It may have been realized by now but I just wanted to confirm that Danganranpa does work on the PlayStation TV. It was one of the first games I got for mine. I haven't actually dug in much since I got it but I did play an hour or so and it ran fine. So unless there has been some weird patch that broke it, you shouldn't have to worry about missing out on that one. I'm mire interested in Zero Escape: Virtues Last Reward as far as Vita adventure games go. But sadly mine doesn't get enough love due to my work schedule and crazy back log. Good point of note though is that the Vita TV is fully capable of playing all the digital releases of PSOne and PSP games. So P3P is feasible on the bug screen without the weird PSP connector. And you also get access to old gems like Corpse Party <3

I read this entire thread from start to finish out of boredom and thought I'd throw out those tidbits

Shauna
10-28-2015, 06:45 PM
It's an EU/NA thing with Danganronpa though, Vyk. It totally does work in NA, but in EU? Not so much. Licencing reasons, I think. So the EU has a completely separate compatibility list to what NA has.

Vyk
10-28-2015, 08:47 PM
Ugggh. Region locked gaming this day and age is such BS. My apologies and sympathies. Also the fact that Vita games need a patch to run on VitaTV is wasted potential. The console emulates the Vitas functionality just fine. Especially with a PS4 controller for anything needing quick precise touch pad support

Fynn
10-28-2015, 08:54 PM
P3 was too dark for you, Sam? Oh, my sweet summer child :p

We gotta get you guys converted to regular MegaTen games. Like Mirage said, there is such a thing as too optimistic :p

Vyk
10-28-2015, 11:02 PM
I've always loved the idea of the other MegaTen games and have given the old college try to a good portion of them but aside from their difficulty (which I really wouldn't even mind) they all tend to be huge grind fests with fairly slow pacing and not a lot of ability given to just walk around and explore and enjoy the atmospheres. I love that they exist and I will continue to dabble in them and hope eventually one will come out that's as dark as the others but as friendly to play as P4. And right now P5 and MegaTen x Fire Emblem look to be the most likely candidates in the near future

Fynn
10-29-2015, 11:10 AM
Don't get me started on that SMT x FE nonsense...

Right now I'm playing Strange Journey and having a blast, but I really think SMT IV is the epitome of what an SMT game should be like, with a chilling story, brilliant atmosphere, unforgettable characters (who are actually subtle and it's really unfair that people compare them to Persona because they're just a wildly different type of character writing), and a complex world that's a joy to explore. Seriously, I think anyone with a 3DS should play it, as not only is it immersive as hell, it's also the most accessible SMT to date.

Vyk
10-29-2015, 04:12 PM
I loved Strange Journeys story and atmosphere and even the good old fighting and making friends with enemies and stuff. Even the first person dungeon crawling was charming and fun. But the encounter rate and difficulty spike between areas begs for grinding and it turned me off as I got about halfway through exploring the second area :( I have a weak tolerance for these amazing games

Haven't tried IV yet, perhaps it will be the one that clicks. I know they are designed to be trouble. Just have to fund one with an angle or mechanics that feel worth it or enjoyable or something. My tastes can be annoyingly stud and picky sometimes

The next handheld game I get will almost certainly be Virtues Last Reward, SMTIV can be the next one after that. Its still readily available and affordable

Skyblade
10-29-2015, 04:54 PM
Don't get me started on that SMT x FE nonsense...

What's wrong with Persona Emblem?! The games not even out yet, but it looks solid enough. Give it a chance.


Right now I'm playing Strange Journey and having a blast, but I really think SMT IV is the epitome of what an SMT game should be like, with a chilling story, brilliant atmosphere, unforgettable characters (who are actually subtle and it's really unfair that people compare them to Persona because they're just a wildly different type of character writing), and a complex world that's a joy to explore. Seriously, I think anyone with a 3DS should play it, as not only is it immersive as hell, it's also the most accessible SMT to date.

I enjoyed Nocturne more, but that really isn't saying a lot, as I don't think I beat more than the first boss of either game. The pacing is terrible, the dungeon grinding is way too central of a focus (especially given the difficulty), and the story themes are not compelling enough to make me want to keep playing.

But at least Nocturne didn't feature first person battles.

Wolf Kanno
10-29-2015, 05:52 PM
Face it, SMT X FE is pretty much Persona Idol Singer with FE characters as summons. Not the game I think fans on both sides were expecting. It may still be fun game in the end but I must say my interest dies off a little more with each news update I read about it.

SMTIV is easily the most accessible entry in the series. The dropping of the defense stat actually makes battles go by incredibly quickly and it has one of the most user friendly fusion systems in the franchise's history. Nocturne in my opinion, is just the best game overall. The fusion system was a little more complex and the game certainly never gave you any kind of hints but it was also one of the most versatile and broken ones in the series once you figured out what you were doing (and probably using a guide). If you're looking for a strong narrative among the actual SMT games, I would stick to Strange Journey and SMTIV. You could also emulate SMT if... As it was the spin-off MegaTen that eventually created the Persona series.

Fynn
10-29-2015, 07:27 PM
I'm not saying it's going to be a bad game, Sky, and I'm still looking forward to it. But Wolf kinda summed it up for me. I came into this as part of the MegaTen fanbase, not the FE fanbase (I've played only one FE game to date, while MegaTen has really come to influence me through all the games I've played so far), so seeing Persona Emblem with Idols really disappointed me. It just feels like one half of the crossover is completely eclipsing the other, which is sad for those who were eager to see more of the latter - like me, and Wolf, I would assume.

Of course, it would be ironic if the story turned out to be as cynical as a regular SMT story beneath the saccharine surface, and I would really love that, but I doubt it happens. Perhaps we can at least get the Law vs. Chaos conflict, please?

Vyk
10-30-2015, 03:54 AM
I totally get it. When it was first announced I was totally looking forward to a gritty tactical game about demons and delving into the depths of human morality and stuff.

While it is obviously more inspired by Persona. And not just general persona, definitely NEW persona, as the first few were still dark and demonic. I got in on Persona 3 and moved on to Persona 4 so it doesn't phase me as much. But for anyone wanting a genuine MegaTen influence is getting kinda robbed. A least from the look of it

Sadly I can't say I blame them Persona 2 is too old and obscure. And Nocturne is only a bit newer (?). Even SMTIV was probably only enjoyed by a niche community. Persona 3/4 is more popular and well known. Though in that regard I think it really should have been Persona X Fire Emblem. It'd be more... honest? Though I do hope they still surprise us with more SMT influence than we realize. But as it stands there appears to barely be even much Fire Emblem influence. So who knows what they're going for

Skyblade
10-30-2015, 06:05 AM
Actually, I've thought since the beginning that new Persona would make a lot more sense to cross with Fire Emblem, as the Support system that Fire Emblem uses parallels the Social Link system perfectly. So the fact that it was based around the Persona design is not only a relief to me (as I enjoy the series far more), but I actually think it makes a much tighter fit, design wise. Both games have a core theme of building relationships and the strength it brings out in a unit.

The more I learn of the game, the more influence I see from both series, and I'm quite happy with that. For example, the mirages. Yes, they're bound and used essentially as Personas. Yet, they're not. They retain their personalities, and have impact and stories with interactions with the main characters they are united with (which is, I suppose, an element of demon negotiation?). The relationship system has been expanded to building on relationships between party members, leading to team attacks (again, a nod to Fire Emblem).

The story, from what little I've discovered, does seem to tend towards being on the darker side, and ATLUS seems to have in fact used the contrast between the colorful pop elements and the darker story elements far better than they did with Persona 4. I don't think the story will be as dark as a standard Shin Megami Tensei game, but I think it's going to be a cross between Persona 3 and Fire Emblem. Dark, with elements of hope thrown in.

The battle system looks to have refined out several of the ideas that Persona used, with more consistent and tactical manipulation of turn order and weaknesses to execute combos and dual attacks. The use of the Weapon Triangle to bring various types of physical damage into the system also serves as an improvement even to Persona 3's handling of the weakness system.

It really does feel to me like a fusion of the core of the Fire Emblem games, and the Persona games, and I am hyped as heck for it. If you're disappointed that there's less of an overt Shin Megami Tensei presence... Well, I guess I can understand that, especially since all we knew about it was that it was a cross between Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem for a long time. So I suppose it is a bit of a bait and switch. But, personally, I've always enjoyed the Persona games so much more anyway, that it only gets me more hyped. Despite their overall pacing problems (which, again, are still far worse in the mainline Mega Ten games), the newer Persona series handles world building, player engagement, and game balance so much better than the mainline series that I would be very disappointed to get a mainline Shin Megami Tensei experience out of this.

Plus, Mega Ten has too much Nietzsche influencing its philosophies.

Wolf Kanno
10-30-2015, 06:20 AM
Well SMT is kind of the JRPG poster child for Crapsack world so it would need to be more Nietzsche. The funny thing is that the Persona team isn't working on this one, it's actually the Devil Survivor team and they certainly followed the newer Persona games influence in adding a much bigger anime influence on the series mythology for their games. I'm honestly tired of the newer Persona/Devil Survivor series feel, which is partly why I'm happy that P5 looks to be bringing back the darker elements while retaining the goofy absurdness of the series.

I was hoping for more of an actual mash-up as opposed to an original project being co-developed but the game may surprise me in the end. Unfortunately the bait and switch did largely curb my need to pick up the game immediately. The idol angle kind of irks me a bit too as it's a side of Japanese culture I never could grasp and find kind of stupid.

fat_moogle
12-10-2015, 07:51 PM
After an almost 2 month hiatus of Persona 3 Portable I picked it back up again today! 106 hours logged and finally, I'm almost there. 26 in game days left. I've just made it to the top of the 6th block after defeating the guardians on that floor so now I'm just going to level my party.

Formalhaut
12-10-2015, 08:21 PM
I may as well comment on my progress!

So I finished Persona 4: Golden. Mr. Carny finished before me, actually. We're now both playing Persona Q and we're, again, both loving it. I'm doing the P3 path, he's doing the P4 path. I'll end up doing the P4 path at some point, much how I intend to do the Male Protagonist for P3P as well at some point.

I'm at the final story of the Evil Spirit Club, and I'm enjoying the fairly unique game-play. I do have to say, that magic is fairly useless. Physical attacks are so effective in this game. SP is so rare!

Fynn keeps badgering me to get into the SMT series proper with SMT IV. I may do. I'm torn whether to continue my Persona fix and do either the Arena duology or go complete left-turn and consider Persona 2: Innocent Sin.

Fynn
12-10-2015, 08:58 PM
If you try SMT first, Persona 2 will be a bit less grating after 3 and 4. Can't vouch for Arena cause I haven't played it. But it's a fighting game, not an RPG, so it's something completely different.

Really, SMTIV is amazing and needs more love, so please try it :shobon:

Formalhaut
12-10-2015, 09:26 PM
Okay, okay, I've decided my playing order:

- Persona 3 Portable: Female Path
- Persona 4 Golden
- Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth: P3 Side
- Shin Megami Tensei IV
- Persona 2: Innocent Sin
- Persona 4: Arena/Arena Ultimax
- Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
- Persona 4: Dancing All Night
- Persona 3 Portable: Male Path
- Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth: P4 Side

Playing all of that will take a heck of a long time. By the time I'm towards the end, Persona 5 will be released and me and Mr. Carny will have a PS4, so that actually works well. Playing the Male and P4 paths of 3 and Q are sort of lopped on the end of that, really: if P5 comes out before I've done them, I'll postpone them until I've enjoyed P5.

If I end up really enjoying SMT IV, I'll look into SMT IV: Final and maybe even SMT III, but that's dependent on how much I enjoy SMT IV, really :p

Fynn
12-10-2015, 10:18 PM
I think P5 will be coming out sooner than SMT IV: Final, though.

Formalhaut
12-10-2015, 10:35 PM
I think P5 will be coming out sooner than SMT IV: Final, though.

Eh, I'm easy. I'm really looking forward to P5, actually. I've seen the trailers that have come out for it and it looks amazing. What do you think of it, Fynn?

Wolf Kanno
12-11-2015, 12:18 AM
I think P5 will be coming out sooner than SMT IV: Final, though.

Actually SMTIV:Final is getting released in February in Japan, whereas P5 still doesn't have a release date beyond "sometime in 2016". Makes sense due to IVF reusing a lot of content from SMTIV, especially when one remembers it started its life as SMTIV: Director's Cut before being turned into a spin-off.

Fynn
12-12-2015, 07:50 AM
I think P5 will be coming out sooner than SMT IV: Final, though.

Eh, I'm easy. I'm really looking forward to P5, actually. I've seen the trailers that have come out for it and it looks amazing. What do you think of it, Fynn?

I'm super stoked, honestly. I'm glad it's shaking up the formula, since as much as I loved P3 and 4, one more of the same would kinda be pushing it.

Also, from what I read about it, it kind of fits a fan theory. In Persona 1 and 2 your main adversary was Nyarlathotep who was kind of a chaotic avatar, believing people would just kill themselves off. In 3 and 4 we had enemies on the neutral side, with death and apathy just reducing everything to zero. Apparently the heroes of P5 fight to be themselves despite authority and social stuff, so I guess that puts them in opposition to law.

If that means nothing to you, Formy, those are the traditional SMT alignments that play a huge part in the series and it's a nice touch that the developers are subtly hinting at this connection ;)

Formalhaut
01-04-2016, 01:03 AM
So I've finished Persona Q! And I have to say, having completed the last quarter of the game, it has only risen in my estimations, to be honest.



What makes Persona Q work is the knowledge you bring along from Persona 3 and Persona 4, but most poignantly from Persona 3. Persona 3's story gets hit with three or so Wham episodes in the space of a term: October has Shinjiro's death (which I think is canon?), November has Ikutsuki's betrayal, and December as the whole Ryuji is Death thing. Basically, the latter half of the game takes a real dive.

Persona Q takes place just before all the crap hits the fan, basically, and because of that, all the character growth and development really stings because of my knowledge of what is to come. It stung the most with Shinjiro. In Persona 3, I don't think he got enough real development, and because he goes relatively quickly, I felt time with him was cut short, despite him bearing the Moon Arcana in my Female play-through. In Persona Q, however, we got to see more of him. He appeared lighter. He's still a fairly aloof individual, but through interactions with others, we really got a caring side from him, be it his cooking orders or his non-reaction towards Naoto's gender. These were great, but it stung because I knew that he would be gone soon, and I have to say that in Persona Q Shinjiro became one of my favourite characters. One thing that struck me is that no-one really jumped on Shinji for his talent in cooking, as opposed to Kanji, who can still barely disclose his hobby of sewing to his close friends.

Other points of development, such as Kanji's mentoring of Ken, and Mitsuru/Yukari's reconciliation, were handled well in Persona Q, but there's the nagging elephant of the room: none of this would stick. I admit, I'm going over a relatively small detail in the scheme of things, but it stuck in my mind.

Of course, the main plot of Persona Q is with Rei and Zen, and thematically, it all worked. I kinda called Rei's fate towards the end of the second labyrinth, and it was patently clear by the end of the third. But while her incessant food habit was annoying at times, the explanation for it (because she was dead, she had a ravenous appetite for life) worked. Really, the last quarter was astounding, and gripping. I particularly liked the enhanced role the Velvet Room attendants had, and I agonised as Margaret struggled to restrain divulging the fate of the P3 Hero from Elizabeth.

Basically, the game works because of hindsight, agonising hindsight. Much like how time is inescapable, the fates of Shinji and the P3 Hero are unavoidable, which makes all the interactions in PQ all the more poignant. If the memories weren't wiped, most of the troubles that occur in the latter part of the P3 story may have been averted.


Basically, I loved it. Definitely one of the best handheld games I've played, and arguably ranks as one of my favourite games in general.

Fynn
01-04-2016, 12:46 PM
Oh boy, I see you still have a lot of handheld games to play then :p

Not that I didn't enjoy PQ to bits, but I still think there's better dungeon crawlers out there. The character interactions certainly were the best thing about the game, even if they were a bit flat compared to the rest of the series.

Speaking of, i have jumped into Dancing All Night, and boy, is it addicting as all hell.

Formalhaut
01-04-2016, 07:20 PM
Oh boy, I see you still have a lot of handheld games to play then :p

Not that I didn't enjoy PQ to bits, but I still think there's better dungeon crawlers out there. The character interactions certainly were the best thing about the game, even if they were a bit flat compared to the rest of the series.

Speaking of, i have jumped into Dancing All Night, and boy, is it addicting as all hell.

If it were completely standalone, I'd agree. I just feel I enjoyed it far more because of all the connections I was making between P3 and P4.

Fynn
01-04-2016, 09:02 PM
I guess that is kinda nice, but at the same time, it still felt kinda fanficky to me. Though I'll agree Shinjiro's personality actually benefited from this game. I kinda feel this is what he would behave like if he got to spend more time with the party instead of biting it.

But what they did to Akihiko was downright criminal.

Formalhaut
01-04-2016, 09:12 PM
I guess that is kinda nice, but at the same time, it still felt kinda fanficky to me. Though I'll agree Shinjiro's personality actually benefited from this game. I kinda feel this is what he would behave like if he got to spend more time with the party instead of biting it.

But what they did to Akihiko was downright criminal.

What they did to him in Arena is criminal; what is he doing?!? He's pretty flanderised in Q, but I didn't mind so much.

Fynn
01-04-2016, 09:20 PM
I haven't played Arena yet and you're making me glad I didn't XD

Pumpkin
01-04-2016, 09:27 PM
I am worried about the Akihiko federalization from either game actually because I really liked his character. He was sweet and devoted and his character had some good subtlety to it which you just don't find enough of in some games, I think

Haven't played the spinoffs though so can't comment for certain!

Fynn
01-04-2016, 09:39 PM
I can tell you that the cast of P4 is pretty well represented in Dancing All Night so far, though I don't think I'm that far in yet. The new characters are kinda bleh, though, aside from Kanamin. It's nice to finally see her character after her being such a big part of Rise's S. Link and backstory in general.

Aside from the flanderization, Q is a really good game, just not sure if it's your style. Akihiko doesn't shut up about protein, but the rest aren't half that bad.

Formalhaut
01-04-2016, 09:47 PM
I am worried about the Akihiko federalization from either game actually because I really liked his character. He was sweet and devoted and his character had some good subtlety to it which you just don't find enough of in some games, I think

Haven't played the spinoffs though so can't comment for certain!

He still is sweet and devoted in Persona Q. I mean, he mentions protein constantly, but his interactions with Chie and Shinji are rather touching, and he learns from Yukari and the others about the distance that's occurred between S.E.E.S, and works to correct that. There's a small bit about Akihiko running headfirst into combat, which changed towards the end with him being slightly more cautious, which was nice.

Really, Akihiko is fine in Persona Q. He's got enough development in there and you can overlook the protein gags. His brotherly connection with Shinji was both sweet and bittersweet, as Shinji's death shortly after made me realise just how close they were.

In Arena, Akihiko's changed into this weird topless caped muscleman. Get pictures, it is quite something. Having said that, his story does go into his anguish about the P3 Hero's sacrifice, which makes him surprisingly vulnerable at times when you read his thoughts. But yeah, on the surface, he's really changed.

fat_moogle
01-05-2016, 12:48 AM
I've finally completed Persona 3 Portable. I started off enjoying the game but come the end it became bit of a chore, maybe because I was grinding too much in Tartarus and made the story sections feel further apart than they were. To be honest I'm glad it's over, and I'm interested to see how Persona 4 Golden compares (although I think I'll give it a few days before I Junpei to that).

Formalhaut
01-05-2016, 12:58 AM
I've finally completed Persona 3 Portable. I started off enjoying the game but come the end it became bit of a chore, maybe because I was grinding too much in Tartarus and made the story sections feel further apart than they were. To be honest I'm glad it's over, and I'm interested to see how Persona 4 Golden compares (although I think I'll give it a few days before I Junpei to that).

I think Mr. Carny has the same feelings toward P3P like you did. He enjoyed it, but found the last segments a bit of a slog. He also found ending rather melodramatic. "The moon is Nyx? Whaaa?!".

fat_moogle
01-05-2016, 01:35 AM
He also found ending rather melodramatic. "The moon is Nyx? Whaaa?!".
Yeah, the ending was a quite a letdown. At least I can say I completed it, but it wasn't worth the 117 hours xD

Fynn
01-05-2016, 06:03 AM
You guys have no taste :colbert:

Wolf Kanno
01-05-2016, 06:23 AM
This is what happens when you play the version that doesn't have The Answer. :p

Icol0dtcxnU

I don't know, I never cared for P3P as I feel the UI change to a visual novel style approach really made it hard to connect to the world, which was one of the things that really drew me to the game. The lack of the anime cutscenes and the character model work just makes the story feel a bit flat to me. The gameplay changes never set well with me either, but I'm probably sounding like a broken record now. I honestly feel that if you intend to play Persona 3, P3 FES is the way to go.

Fynn
01-05-2016, 06:41 AM
I've never played FES, but I watched the answer, and I honestly think the story is way better without it.

I mean, sure, the Aigis learning to live thing is great, but the conflict between the party members, while cool on paper, is handled incredibly heavy-handedly. It really made the whole thing very disappointing.

Wolf Kanno
01-05-2016, 06:50 AM
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fat_moogle
01-05-2016, 10:29 AM
You guys have no taste :colbert:
I didn't dislike the game, it just dragged on for too long xD