Why must Latinos have everything in Spanish, and why won't they assimilate?

[SuperMillionaire]

In another thread relating to Hispanic Heritage Month, I asked if Brazilians and Argentines counted as Latinos. Now I figured that I'd ask another question: Why must Hispanics and Latinos have everything in Spanish? And why wont they assimilate into the English-speaking majority? If immigrants come from Europe, Asia, or Africa, they assimilate into the English-speaking majority, but if they come from Latin America, they don't assimilate, and they continue to use Spanish as their first language. Why is that? Though it probably has to do with the fact that Spain conquered the majority of those countries (with the exception of Brazil, which was conquered by Portugal, and speaks Portuguese as a result), but still, why won't they assimilate?

[Mirage]

Why can't you just learn spanish instead? Knowing two languages is pretty much standard outside of the US. You're the weird ones.

[escobert]

Why can't you just learn spanish instead? Knowing two languages is pretty much standard outside of the US. You're the weird ones.

I always see/hear this but, at least in my area almost everyone takes a second language in high school. And considering the majority of kids go on to college now, they are required to take a second language in high school in order to do so.

[Mirage]

You learn a second language in elementary school elsewhere in the world :p. 3rd grade for me, not sure when they start nowadays, but probably earlier. It's not optional either.

[Loony BoB]

I'm pretty sure you've made this thread before, SM. Anyway - you ask why they don't. The question they would have is "Why"? If the reason why isn't good enough for them, then that's why not.

[Pumpkin]

Actually, the majority do speak English (http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/iv-language-use-among-latinos/)

And if they speak Spanish on their own time? So what? That doesn't really matter. People should be allowed to keep some of their own culture when they move somewhere. I guess I could say more but I feel like it'll just fall on deaf ears.

Plus, you know, what BoB said

[Mirage]

Thanks for that link, pumpkin. Turns out Supermillionaire was just doing sweeping generalizations again.

[Psychotic]

Why can't you just learn spanish instead? Knowing two languages is pretty much standard outside of the US. You're the weird ones.Not just the US, all English speaking countries. Global lingua franca privilege, baby. :cool:

[Old Manus]

Why can't you just learn spanish instead? Knowing two languages is pretty much standard outside of the US. You're the weird ones.Not just the US, all English speaking countries. Global lingua franca privilege, baby. :cool:Ewch allan gyda ti'n braint Saesneg, arglwydd yr cachu :colbert:

[Psychotic]

Al Bhed doesn't count.

[Shauna]

Here's some in depth thoughts in response to this question (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/159529-The-Spanish-language-is-it-too-widely-spoken-in-this-country).

[Psychotic]

Here's some in depth thoughts in response to this question (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/159529-The-Spanish-language-is-it-too-widely-spoken-in-this-country).I like that my attitude has done a 180, even down to my acknowledgement/dismissal of the Welsh.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

A) It's already been pointed out that a majority do speak English.

B) You singled out Spanish speaking immigrants as unique for some reason, when it's easy to point out pockets of immigrants in the U.S. and other countries where they predominantly use their native language when in that area. Little Italy, Little China, Little Korea, etc. Why? Because for better or worse, when you migrate to a new country it's difficult enough to learn how things work. Moving to an area where you have a lot of people who are going through a similar experience makes it easier as far as getting help, advice, and support.

I do think that someone moving to another country to make an effort to learn the language there. However, I'm not at all against them speaking their native language, teaching it to others, etc.

If an immigrant population grows large enough, it's probably best for other people in that country to learn that language as well.

[Freya]

I've been trying to learn Spanish! I went to south Texas recently and felt out of place with a lot of the Spanish-speaking people. They spoke English but would talk in Spanish with themselves. So if that's how south Texas is, if I want to be able to communicate completely, then I should probably take the effort to learn the language so many people speak. It's understandable that they speak that too! It's right near the border of another country that doesn't natively speak the same language as our own country. I plan on doing more visiting in that area so if I want to interact with people, I should take an effort to learn their language since they take an effort to learn mine.

Plus I like languages. If I had the time I would attempt to learn all of them! For now, I attempt to learn some here and there. Everyone should try. Some feel less compelled because they are so far away from another place that natively speaks it but we're melding together so much, the only reason to not do so is just the person being stubborn.

[Mirage]

i'm actually currently trying to learn spanish too. I think it's a pretty useful language to know, considering how many regions speak spanish.

[Madame Adequate]

"Why won't they assimilate" because America isn't populated by the fucking borg

[Ayen]

Debido Inglés es una lengua de mierda, y la española es de la patria superir de Mexico . Tiempo América como superpotencia está en un extremo , y México gobernará como el Surpreme bienestar de todo el mundo , ¿de acuerdo ?

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Nosotros somos los Borg. La resistencia es inútil. Usted será asimilado.

Close enough.

[Night Fury]

Spanish is probably their first language. So that's why they use it as their first language.

[DMKA]

Because they're lazy. :spin:

[Freya]

Yeah, Americans are so lazy to not attempt to learn literally any other language than their native one, I agree.

[DMKA]

So wait, people who live in their own native country speaking their own native language are lazy for speaking the native language, but the people who come from another country who don't speak the native language and refuse to learn the native language so they can adequately communicate like everyone else aren't lazy? What?

And in case you couldn't tell, I was being facetious in that last post. I'm half Mexican.

[Mirage]

But most of them do speak english.

[Mirage]

You could say that about any discussion

should we just stop discussing politics all together?

[Pheesh]

I didn't know about those stats that Shion posted before she posted them, so this topic has officially been educational for someone, even if you personally get nothing out of it.

[Mirage]

Except no one is interesting in discussing the issue at all. It's an excuse to push one's agenda on another person. There isn't a conversation going on. No one is attempting to listen to another viewpoint or make the effort to see the other side of the coin. It's the same garbage as usual.

So if there was a discussion going on, we would suddenly be solving political issues on a final fantasy board?

[Sephex]

I apologize. You guys are right. I'm deleting the previous posts. Please carry on with this thread's discussion.

EDIT: I'll legit help out this time since I seemed to have killed the thread.

Point: There are plenty of immigrants that speak neither English or Spanish that go to the US. Should they learn either or language or should the US help them out by having important things in other languages?

EDIT2: As for any assimilation sort of deal, it is a tough call. Some people are proud of their heritage and they have a right to keep it going. However, I have known families where the first generation of immigrants to come to the US did away with teaching their children their native language and hammered English into their children's brains.

I personally don't see either way as a big deal. I never felt like another language is going to take over English is the US. There are more places where speaking Spanish is an option, but aside from the very rare case where you have to know Spanish to get a job (and if that's even the case most places will offer to teach new employees the language anyway).

EDIT3: I was reminded of how German used to be a big language in the US. When the first World War hit, Germans were persecuted and long story short, the language was phased out except for some niche places that still continue to heavily use the language to this day. The Wiki explains it better than I could: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language_in_the_United_States#Persecution_during_World_War_I

It would be interesting to see a language like that come back. The US has no more beef with Germany anymore and the country itself has massively improved since the dark days in my opinion. I like how you can kind of play verbal Legos with that language and have simple words for terms (at least that's how it goes according to my understanding).

[Laddy]

The vast majority of Spanish-speaking Latinos I interact with in my daily life as a server and student speak English very fluently but prefer to speak Spanish amongst their family and friends. I speak French pretty well but if I am in a Francophone nation I would speak English to my friends and family since I'm most comfortable with it and I don't have to switch my brain's internal language.

Even in the event I do serve someone who does not speak English very well, they usually have a child, spouse, or sibling who is willing to translate for them. I really fail to see an issue here.

[Sephex]

The vast majority of Spanish-speaking Latinos I interact with in my daily life as a server and student speak English very fluently but prefer to speak Spanish amongst their family and friends. I speak French pretty well but if I am in a Francophone nation I would speak English to my friends and family since I'm most comfortable with it and I don't have to switch my brain's internal language.

Even in the event I do serve someone who does not speak English very well, they usually have a child, spouse, or sibling who is willing to translate for them. I really fail to see an issue here.

That's a good point. At my work I am around plenty of people who speak Spanish. Most have perfect English, but some have heavier accents. Either way they only speak Spanish with Spanish speaking people and some people even try to learn their language for fun. I've been here so long I've even picked up a few things (I didn't take Spanish in school).

But anyway, I never felt that anyone who spoke Spanish did it out of spite or an unwillingness to "assimilate" or anything. It always seemed more of just something that happens. A reflex. Kind of like how most of us speak very differently among our group of friends or family as opposed to how you talk at work.

[Shiny]

Why can't you just learn spanish instead? Knowing two languages is pretty much standard outside of the US. You're the weird ones.

I always see/hear this but, at least in my area almost everyone takes a second language in high school. And considering the majority of kids go on to college now, they are required to take a second language in high school in order to do so.

Not even high school. It started at middle school (6th grade at the time) for my district and now it stars even earlier at 5th grade. Taking a language class is pretty mandatory in the east coast.

[Pumpkin]

We had both English and French since grade 1, but you know, bilingual country and all

[SuperMillionaire]

Here's the thing, though: if immigrants come from Europe, Asia, or Africa, they assimilate into the English-speaking majority, but if they come from Latin America, they continue to use Spanish as their first language. Why is that? They say that they want to preserve their culture, but so do the immigrants from Europe, Asia, and Africa, but at least those other immigrants assimilate into the English-speaking majority, so why won't immigrants from Latin America assimilate?

The official language of this country is English, and if they want to come to this country, they should speak English. If they want to keep speaking Spanish, why don't they just go to Argentina instead? Argentina is a country of immigrants, similar to the United States, but the main difference is that Argentina's official language is Spanish, so why don't they just go to Argentina instead?

And on a side note, I don't even think Latin America should be called Latin America. I think it should be called "Spanish America" or "Iberian America," if you want to include Brazil, because the majority of Latin America was conquered by Spain, with the exception of Brazil, which was conquered by Portugal, and Spain and Portugal together are referred to as the Iberian Peninsula.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

This is cute when Americans talk about language issues.

Also, SuperMillionaire, "first language" doesn't mean what you think it means. First language will always be your native tongue regardless of the proficiency in other languages. That means that it will always be the most comfortable language you can speak in and most likely the one you will speak at home and with your community.

Also, there are a ton of studies that show that second language acquisition prior to the age of 5 is the most beneficial and shows huge increase in brain plasticity. Moreover, those kids tend to test better and achieve better academically.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Here's the thing, though: if immigrants come from Europe, Asia, or Africa, they assimilate into the English-speaking majority, but if they come from Latin America, they continue to use Spanish as their first language. Why is that? They say that they want to preserve their culture, but so do the immigrants from Europe, Asia, and Africa, but at least those other immigrants assimilate into the English-speaking majority, so why won't immigrants from Latin America assimilate?

It's....it's like you didn't even read this.


B) You singled out Spanish speaking immigrants as unique for some reason, when it's easy to point out pockets of immigrants in the U.S. and other countries where they predominantly use their native language when in that area. Little Italy, Little China, Little Korea, etc. Why? Because for better or worse, when you migrate to a new country it's difficult enough to learn how things work. Moving to an area where you have a lot of people who are going through a similar experience makes it easier as far as getting help, advice, and support.

Now, you may hear more Spanish speakers in the U.S. than other languages, but that isn't because other immigrants pick up English more readily once they move here, at least overall. It's because there's simply more Spanish speaking immigrants when compared to other types of immigrants. So statistically if you meet an immigrant from another area of the world, chances are they also speak Spanish. (http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/largest-immigrant-groups-over-time)

When you combine that with the fact that many European and Asian immigrants (particularly China and Japan) teach English to their students in a much more effect manner than say a country like Mexico, then the odds of that immigrant picking up English, or already knowing English, also goes up.

Also, I don't know of too many immigrants who move to a different country simply because that country's population also uses their native tongue as a majority. It typically is a combination of seeking better quality of life while finding a country that will help them achieve that goal.


The official language of this country is English, and if they want to come to this country, they should speak English.

Okay, I know this has been mentioned to you before. The U.S. has no official language. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States)

[Loony BoB]

And on a side note, I don't even think Latin America should be called Latin America. I think it should be called "Spanish America" or "Iberian America," if you want to include Brazil, because the majority of Latin America was conquered by Spain, with the exception of Brazil, which was conquered by Portugal, and Spain and Portugal together are referred to as the Iberian Peninsula.
Latin America represents colonies of Spain, Portugal and France. Notably, French Guiana is not even its own country - it is still a territory of France and therefore part of the European Union. French is the common language in this area.

[escobert]

The official language of this country is English, and if they want to come to this country, they should speak English. If they want to keep speaking Spanish, why don't they just go to Argentina instead? Argentina is a country of immigrants, similar to the United States, but the main difference is that Argentina's official language is Spanish, so why don't they just go to Argentina instead?

Because Argentina is a world leader like the US is?

[Colonel Angus]

Here's the thing, though: if immigrants come from Europe, Asia, or Africa, they assimilate into the English-speaking majority, but if they come from Latin America, they continue to use Spanish as their first language. Why is that? They say that they want to preserve their culture, but so do the immigrants from Europe, Asia, and Africa, but at least those other immigrants assimilate into the English-speaking majority, so why won't immigrants from Latin America assimilate?

The official language of this country is English, and if they want to come to this country, they should speak English. If they want to keep speaking Spanish, why don't they just go to Argentina instead? Argentina is a country of immigrants, similar to the United States, but the main difference is that Argentina's official language is Spanish, so why don't they just go to Argentina instead?

Blue parts are not true. Plenty of non-Latin American immigrants still use their native languages as their first language.

The US has no official language.

[SuperMillionaire]

And on a side note, I don't even think Latin America should be called Latin America. I think it should be called "Spanish America" or "Iberian America," if you want to include Brazil, because the majority of Latin America was conquered by Spain, with the exception of Brazil, which was conquered by Portugal, and Spain and Portugal together are referred to as the Iberian Peninsula.
Latin America represents colonies of Spain, Portugal and France. Notably, French Guiana is not even its own country - it is still a territory of France and therefore part of the European Union. French is the common language in this area.

But it's predominately Spain, though. Spain conquered the majority of the countries of Latin America.





The official language of this country is English, and if they want to come to this country, they should speak English. If they want to keep speaking Spanish, why don't they just go to Argentina instead? Argentina is a country of immigrants, similar to the United States, but the main difference is that Argentina's official language is Spanish, so why don't they just go to Argentina instead?

Because Argentina is a world leader like the US is?

That makes absolutely no sense. If Argentina is a world power, immigrants should be drawn to that country too. Why don't the Spanish-speaking immigrants of Latin America go to Argentina instead of the United States?

[Freya]

The American Dream. That's why

[escobert]

And on a side note, I don't even think Latin America should be called Latin America. I think it should be called "Spanish America" or "Iberian America," if you want to include Brazil, because the majority of Latin America was conquered by Spain, with the exception of Brazil, which was conquered by Portugal, and Spain and Portugal together are referred to as the Iberian Peninsula.
Latin America represents colonies of Spain, Portugal and France. Notably, French Guiana is not even its own country - it is still a territory of France and therefore part of the European Union. French is the common language in this area.

But it's predominately Spain, though. Spain conquered the majority of the countries of Latin America.





The official language of this country is English, and if they want to come to this country, they should speak English. If they want to keep speaking Spanish, why don't they just go to Argentina instead? Argentina is a country of immigrants, similar to the United States, but the main difference is that Argentina's official language is Spanish, so why don't they just go to Argentina instead?

Because Argentina is a world leader like the US is?

That makes absolutely no sense. If Argentina is a world power, immigrants should be drawn to that country too. Why don't the Spanish-speaking immigrants of Latin America go to Argentina instead of the United States?

I meant isn't.

[SuperMillionaire]

What is it about the American Dream that draws these Spanish-speaking immigrants over here instead of Argentina?

And why should the rest of us have to learn their language?

[Loony BoB]

What is it about the American Dream that draws these Spanish-speaking immigrants over here instead of Argentina?
Rubbish that "American Dream" thing. The thing they are more concerned with is whether or not the country will provide them with a better life. At the moment, America ranks higher than Argentina in a lot of things involving human rights and freedoms, amongst other things.

And why should the rest of us have to learn their language?
Here's the great thing: You don't have to, just like they don't have to learn yours.

[Pumpkin]

And why should the rest of us have to learn their language?

We've already explained that you don't and that the majority do learn to speak English. It's like you're deliberately ignoring the information presented and asking the same things over and over again.

Not to mention that assimilation has a high stress level associated with it and integration is actually a much healthier option. Which is what most of them do. So there's really not an issue.

[Madame Adequate]

We've been talking about hispanic immigrants from south of the border but has anyone considered the threat posed by quebecois? :shifty:

[Old Manus]

We've already explained that you don't and that the majority do learn to speak English. It's like you're deliberately ignoring the information presented and asking the same things over and over again.he's just bumping his thread

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

We've been talking about hispanic immigrants from south of the border but has anyone considered the threat posed by quebecois? :shifty:

Don't worry, they don't really care about anyone but themselves. They just want to shut themselves in their own country.

[escobert]

We've been talking about hispanic immigrants from south of the border but has anyone considered the threat posed by quebecois? :shifty:

God no. they drive so terribly. They invade Vermont every summer :( Cabs from the north and Massholes from the south. :( :(

[SuperMillionaire]

What is it about the American Dream that draws these Spanish-speaking immigrants over here instead of Argentina?
Rubbish that "American Dream" thing. The thing they are more concerned with is whether or not the country will provide them with a better life. At the moment, America ranks higher than Argentina in a lot of things involving human rights and freedoms, amongst other things.

And why should the rest of us have to learn their language?
Here's the great thing: You don't have to, just like they don't have to learn yours.

In what areas does the United States rank higher than Argentina in, and how?



And why should the rest of us have to learn their language?

We've already explained that you don't and that the majority do learn to speak English. It's like you're deliberately ignoring the information presented and asking the same things over and over again.

Not to mention that assimilation has a high stress level associated with it and integration is actually a much healthier option. Which is what most of them do. So there's really not an issue.

Some of the questions are similar, but others are different. For one, in previous discussions, I forgot to ask about why the Spanish-speaking immigrants of Latin America keep coming here instead of Argentina.

[Loony BoB]

Google is your friend, buddy.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/argentina

Poverty is a real kicker, too.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Because we gave the world Mexican food, now you owe us.