Which FF protagonist is the best?

[Madame Adequate]

Tidus is my answer! I like Lightning a lot as well.

[Ayen]

Well? Does Ant-Man have an antagonist or does it have to be even smaller like a nanoagonist? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Shiva95]

I voted for Locke (even if FFVI doesn't have a main protagonist, I still love him very much), and he is closely followed by Tidus, then Lightning.

[Fynn]

How the fuck is Squall not on there? He's the best one!

[Madame Adequate]

oh guess i forget him lol

nevermind there are 20 options people might actually vote for instead

[Madame Adequate]

Well? Does Ant-Man have an antagonist or does it have to be even smaller like a nanoagonist? Inquiring minds want to know.

if i knew that i wouldn't have phrased it as a question

[Pumpkin]

Squall and Yuna and Zidane

[Pike]

I love Tidus he is just adorable

as are most of the characters in FFX

[FFNut]

I voted Locke, but it's really a toss up

[maybee]

How the smurf is Squall not on there? He's the best one!

Thankyou. * adds Fynn to the Christmas card list * :jess:

Also I'm team Terra is more the main character of FF VI and not Locke Cole.

[Fynn]

Yeah, that's another problem I had. Neither Locke nor Vaan should be on there, since their respective games have ensemble casts. And then people like Mukki are on there and Squall isn't - made me seriously think this was a troll poll :p

[Karifean]

Troll poll? How dare you!

I was always a big fan of nscience respond to this poll because not all possibilities are covered. They're pretty swell.

Seriously though, Squall is the best FF protagonist.

[Bubba]

The kid with the gammy leg at Icicle Inn. The true hero of the tale. Without him Cloud doesn't get to the Northern Crater and basically discs 2 & 3 didn't happen.

[Psychotic]

The guy in 3's name is Luneth and you'd like him because he has silver-gold hair and violet eyes.

[Madame Adequate]

The kid with the gammy leg at Icicle Inn. The true hero of the tale. Without him Cloud doesn't get to the Northern Crater and basically discs 2 & 3 didn't happen.

I feared I forgot someone who actually matters :(


The guy in 3's name is Luneth and you'd like him because he has silver-gold hair and violet eyes.

okay fair point he does have those

[Pike]

ummm I don't see blitzball kid on the poll

[Fynn]

I'm glad nscience and Ant-man have the same amount of votes as Tidus.

[Loony BoB]

Bartz / Cloud / Zidane. Tough call between those three for me. I like them all for differing reasons.

[Madame Adequate]

Bartz / Cloud / Zidane. Tough call between those three for me. I like them all for differing reasons.

I don't understand how anyone can like Zidane.

And whenever I 'accidentally' touch a girl's ass they get mad, but they all fucking love him for doing it.


ummm I don't see blitzball kid on the poll

Sweetie we've been over this, Blitzball Kid is too weird and doesn't fit into our typical classifications. Protagonist, antagonist, narrator, love interest - he's all these things and more, often all at once.

[Fynn]

Bartz / Cloud / Zidane. Tough call between those three for me. I like them all for differing reasons.

I don't understand how anyone can like ZidaneTidus.

Fixed that for ya ;)

[Madame Adequate]

bc he's fun and takes the right things seriously and when he learns "killing Sin will mean you stop existing" he says "don't care, killing Sin, saving spira"

[Fynn]

Yup, hoes from egotistical brat to selfless paragon of justice at the snap of a finger. Makes it easy!

[Forsaken Lover]

Screw Zidane and Tidus.

Cloud is the right answer.

[maybee]

Zidane is awesome ! Zidane is a kind-hearted sweetie who cares about others in need, is a excellent leader and friend towards all his team-mates ( unlike Cloud, Squall and Lightning who are dickish ) and tries to help and aid everybody in trouble. Zidane is truly awesome and is a excellent main character !

Zidane is a pure treasure.


Yup, hoes from egotistical brat to selfless paragon of justice at the snap of a finger. Makes it easy!

Think you meant goes imao. Hoes is more Zidane/ King Edgar/ Irvine's style. :lol:

[Fynn]

Ugh. I REALLY need to start looking at what I type on my phone.

[Madame Adequate]

No he doesn't, he has a gradual and complex evolution where different parts of his personality take precedence through the course of his journey. He was never an "egotistical brat", idk where you get that from, he does have an ego because of being a star Blitzer but he's far more ready to ask questions or admit he goofed or whatever. He's recognizably the same person throughout but he gains a much deeper appreciation for the sacrifices others make and the one he is being asked to make, and he undergoes a believable evolution and development precisely because it's actually the opposite of what you say - it's gradual and a change in emphasis in personality, not sudden and wholesale.

[Fynn]

I disagree. I felt it was abrupt and forced, and each subsequent playthrough only reinforced that.

So yeah, that's just like, your opinion, man.

[Pike]

I love Tidus so much he reminds me a lot of myself :love: One of the reasons I liked FFX so much was because I found Tidus really easy to relate to. The other reason I liked FFX so much was because it's got the most fun battle system out of all of them (IMO)

Actually I relate to Tidus so much that I automatically assume people on this forum who don't like Tidus probably wouldn't like me IRL haha

[Fynn]

Don't worry - I like most people in real life, but what makes me like a fictional character is more based on how they are written, rather than how likeable they are as a person. I'm just really annoyed by the writing in X in general, and Tidus just embodies everything wrong with it, IMO.

But if you feel like you can relate to him, good for you :up: I find Squall to be the most realistic portrayal of human emotion in the series and the most relatable to me personally and hE'S NOT ON THE FRICKIN' POLL DESPITE FRIGGIN' SERAH BEING THERE EVEN THOUGH THAT'S A SEQUEL AND NOT A MAIN GAME :mad2:

Yes, I'm still salty about that :cry:

[Formalhaut]

Don't worry - I like most people in real life, but what makes me like a fictional character is more based on how they are written, rather than how likeable they are as a person. I'm just really annoyed by the writing in X in general, and Tidus just embodies everything wrong with it, IMO.

But if you feel like you can relate to him, good for you :up: I find Squall to be the most realistic portrayal of human emotion in the series and the most relatable to me personally and hE'S NOT ON THE FRICKIN' POLL DESPITE FRIGGIN' SERAH BEING THERE EVEN THOUGH THAT'S A SEQUEL AND NOT A MAIN GAME :mad2:

Yes, I'm still salty about that :cry:

Gonna have to agree with the others about Tidus on this one Fynn :p

As for the poll, I don't know, I rather liked Lightning's characterisation and taken as a whole throughout the three games, you really see her progression through time. Other than her, I also appreciated Tidus, Cloud and Ashe as the protagonist of their respective games. XII does have an ensemble cast, but there's no denying that Ashe does become the driving force after the first third of the game.

[Fynn]

Hey, I know it's just like me and two other people that think Toriyama should never touch a work of fiction again because he has zero understanding of what basic human emotion works like, but I will stand by that statement. If you can enjoy TIdus and the trainwreck that is X - good for you. That's one more pleasure in life that you have that I will never get.

[Pike]

If it makes you feel any better about Squall being left out, rest assured that this poll was largely made as a joke :tongue: I told Mister Adequate to see how EoFF would respond if he showed up and said Tidus and Lightning were the best FF characters and he did on a whim xD

tbh Balthier should be on the poll, main character or not, he was like the one redeeming feature of FFXII, aka the game that entirely put me off of the series :(

[Forsaken Lover]

It was either Cloud or Ashe but Ashe isn't on the poll so....

[Fynn]

If it makes you feel any better about Squall being left out, rest assured that this poll was largely made as a joke :tongue: I told Mister Adequate to see how EoFF would respond if he showed up and said Tidus and Lightning were the best FF characters and he did on a whim xD

tbh Balthier should be on the poll, main character or not, he was like the one redeeming feature of FFXII, aka the game that entirely put me off of the series :(

I fucking KNEW IT :exdee:

I find it amusing how we are polar opposites in that regard, as I don't care for X and XII is my favorite numbered title, and yet we both adore Tactics Advance :p I still think you're great and I really enjoy your tumblr, proving we can all coexist regardless of differing gaming opinions. Truly, we are an inspiration to the Internet.

[Pike]

If it makes you feel any better about Squall being left out, rest assured that this poll was largely made as a joke :tongue: I told Mister Adequate to see how EoFF would respond if he showed up and said Tidus and Lightning were the best FF characters and he did on a whim xD

tbh Balthier should be on the poll, main character or not, he was like the one redeeming feature of FFXII, aka the game that entirely put me off of the series :(

I fucking KNEW IT :exdee:

I find it amusing how we are polar opposites in that regard, as I don't care for X and XII is my favorite numbered title, and yet we both adore Tactics Advance :p I still think you're great and I really enjoy your tumblr, proving we can all coexist regardless of differing gaming opinions. Truly, we are an inspiration to the Internet.

(his favorites really are Tidus and Lightning though, like even if it was a serious poll)

I'm afraid I've quit Tumblr which is why I haven't been on it in months :shobon: sorry! It was sucking up all my time.

[Fynn]

Oh God, it does vanquosh your time, yes

[maybee]

I find Squall to be the most realistic portrayal of human emotion in the series and the most relatable to me personally and hE'S NOT ON THE FRICKIN' POLL DESPITE FRIGGIN' SERAH BEING THERE EVEN THOUGH THAT'S A SEQUEL AND NOT A MAIN GAME :mad2:

Yes, I'm still salty about that :cry:


Bless this. Squall just feels so real and it's awesome to hear this deeper thoughts throughout the game. What he's thinking, what he's truly feeling and why.

When it comes to Tidus, I do feel like he's extremely selfish and self-centered though I do blame Auron for that for planting the idea in his goofy head that everything and what's going on is his story when really it's actually more of Yuna's story.

I don't hate Tidus that role goes towards Lighting, though I do agree that he's selfish and he can be too annoying and obnoxious and times and very self-centered. Example Yuna's camera sphere about her saying her goodbyes to everybody, Tidus just chucks it away because he has heard it and now believes that it's useless, but what about everybody else ? I think they would of loved it hear it as well, even though Yuna is no longer giving up her own life and everything, people might of want to spend time and hear and listen to Yuna's goodbyes and thoughts, because they almost lost her and they could've easily lost her. Though Tidus just chucks away the sphere to the wind because he's heard it.

Tidus has the habit of just thinking of Tidus and believing that the whole adventure is his story and it can be very annoying. The only time Tidus doesn't think of Tidus is when it comes to Yuna, though you could debate and argue it's because he loves her and he wants her to stay alive and become his gf.

Though alot of the Final Fantasy mains have flaws. It's what makes them likable, because they are anything but perfect. expect lightning because she goes around punching people, and that's not okay. I love Squall- but I won't deny that he's a asshole towards his friends sometimes. Especially during the beginning of the game. Still, I love him, because he just feels so human and real and we feel for his pain and lost and fears. Squall does have times when he cares and supports his friends eg Irvine and Rinoa during the parade, and it just feels so great, because he's trusting, breaking down his walls and trusting people instead of locking himself up in his dorm room and pushing people away. Squall's development from secretly scared teenaged loner from friend and leader to everybody is just heartwarming. I love Squall.

I don't understand why anybody could like or love Lightning however. Punching/ hitting people is never okay, unless that person is being violent towards you or unwanted sexual contact. Yet, she goes around punching people, just because that other person is being stupid ? It's not female inpowerment, it's gross.

[Forsaken Lover]

Tidus throws away the sphere because it's no longer necessary. Yuna is NOT going to die is the message he sends by throwing her Will. Notice that Yuna is not in the lest bit upset by what he does, in spite of your implications that it's somehow selfish or wrong to destroy it.

In fact, Tidus asked her if it was okay if he destroyed it. He held onto it until he had her approval.

[Fynn]

I actually kinda like Lightning. I mean, the only person she really punches repeatedly is Snow, and let's face the facts here - no matter how nice you are IRL, you WOULD punch Snow :p

[maybee]

Tidus throws away the sphere because it's no longer necessary. Yuna is NOT going to die is the message he sends by throwing her Will. Notice that Yuna is not in the lest bit upset by what he does, in spite of your implications that it's somehow selfish or wrong to destroy it.

In fact, Tidus asked her if it was okay if he destroyed it. He held onto it until he had her approval.

Did he ? I don't remember that part. I need to re-play FF X. I plan to get the FF X HD version soon. :love:

I still feel like he's a little obnoxious by shouting that it is his story everywhere though.


I actually kinda like Lightning. I mean, the only person she really punches repeatedly is Snow, and let's face the facts here - no matter how nice you are IRL, you WOULD punch Snow :p

Doesn't she punch or hit Sazh and Fang as well though ? And to be honest here, no ? I hate Snow too and find him annoying but I wouldn't physically harm him like that. It's just not okay. as stupid and annoying as Snow may be, it's just not okay to physically harm a person, unless it's self-defense. It's also annoying how the game plays it out like it's female power ? It's not strong for a woman to do that, in fact it's the opposite. yes i just called your waifu weak SE bite me
:kakapo:

[Fynn]

To be fair, she is distressed that her sister is effectively dead and she sees Snow as partially responsible. And she can't really deal with her anger, which is admittedly presented as a flaw that she gets over by the end of the game, rather than this being shown as something defining her as strong. Besides, have you seen Snow? I doubt those punches would phase him, causing maybe some minimal loss in gray cells, which he isn't using much anyway :p

[Rocket Edge]

Squall, followed by Tidus & Vaan!

[maybee]

To be fair, she is distressed that her sister is effectively dead and she sees Snow as partially responsible. And she can't really deal with her anger, which is admittedly presented as a flaw that she gets over by the end of the game, rather than this being shown as something defining her as strong. Besides, have you seen Snow? I doubt those punches would phase him, causing maybe some minimal loss in gray cells, which he isn't using much anyway :p

And ?

When Locke finds out that Rachel is dead he doesn't go around punching the whole town and her dad.
When Tifa believes that Cloud might be dead she doesn't go around punching the whole Avalanche crew.
When Rinoa is dying in space and might already be actually dead- Squall doesn't punch Ellone or his SeeD friends or the people whom planned and suggest that would be best for Rinoa to heal in space.
When Garnet is assumed dead by Kuja's magical sleeping spell- Zidane doesn't go off punching Beatrix and Queen Brahne.
When Tidus finds out that Yuna is basically on a suicidal mission- he doesn't go around punching Wakka, Lulu, Auron, Rikku etc.

Being upset or in fear that a loved one might be dead doesn't excuse physical harm like that. Even if she does have anger/ temper issues, it doesn't excuse behavior like that. Just like, even though I love Squall and everything, him having trust issues and fear of people leaving him doesn't excuse him being a ass towards his friends and treating Quistis so rudely like he does and the beginning of the game.

[Wolf Kanno]

Tidus and Lightning are awful main characters with Tidus being whiny concerning his father and Lightning having severely disproportionate anger management issues. Neither issue made them appealing to me.

Squall has his flaws but his hero journey is one of the most well paced and well thought out. It has more subtlety than Tidus' story and his epiphany makes more sense than Lightnings which was sudden and unexpected. Granted, Tidus story is better handled than Yuna's story which lacked much feeling due to her acting like an air-head Miyaka for 90% of the plot and Lightning's issues are more relevant than Vanille and Fang's story but even then I would argue Auron and Sahz were more deserving of the main character status than either representative because their stories had more bite to them and would have led to better plots overall if they had been the focus.

I feel Squall deserves this one. The game's entire plot revolves around him and his journey to become a better person whereas Tidus and Lightning have to share the spotlight with better and more interesting side characters I came to care about more than them.

[Madame Adequate]

Wow are people serious about Squall? I... honestly think he's the worst main character the series has ever had. And if y'all can dismiss Tidus being "whiny" about his dad (even though we'd all handle the news that our abusive-cum-absentee dad is alive and now a massive world-shattering bioweapon a lot worse than Tidus does) and Lightning having anger issues (which... yeah okay I got nothing, she absolutely does, it's just funny because she takes her anger out primarily on Snow's face) then I can go ahead and dismiss Squall's supposedly realistic journey from developmentally arrested manchild into... I dunno, a guy who falls in love with Rinoa for reasons I can't even recall? :p

I mean we've all been hurt by someone we love leaving but the contrast between Tidus' complex emotional reactions and developments as he learns more about Jecht, and Squall becoming someone barely more functional than a full-blown autist, couldn't be more striking to me.

I don't mind Squall being emo, what I mind is that he's bland and boring and, ironically enough, I feel that VIII is one of the worst FFs for protagonists getting a lot of screen time when supporting characters are more interesting.

Of course it probably doesn't help that I consider VIII to be the most monumentally stupid game in the series. For the most part I don't hold that against it - I rate it somewhere in the middle overall, and I like more about the game than I don't - but the story and characters are not (for me) among its strengths.

[Ayen]

Yeah, people need to lay off Tidus for the issues with his dad. Jecht was an ass hat and Tidus had every right to be mad at him. It's not like that plot arc doesn't go anywhere. You have the Jecht apology and the two high fiving near the end of the game, so there was a payoff to it.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm sorry, I don't have any sympathy for Tidus' situation I just don't. Jecht is certainly a stereotypical jock/bully but he's surprisingly likable and I feel his flashbacks from Tidus' angle (especially considering he's an unreliable narrator about his childhood) do not fully justify his resentment. I'm just from a different generation I guess.

[Fynn]

To be fair, she is distressed that her sister is effectively dead and she sees Snow as partially responsible. And she can't really deal with her anger, which is admittedly presented as a flaw that she gets over by the end of the game, rather than this being shown as something defining her as strong. Besides, have you seen Snow? I doubt those punches would phase him, causing maybe some minimal loss in gray cells, which he isn't using much anyway :p

And ?

When Locke finds out that Rachel is dead he doesn't go around punching the whole town and her dad.
When Tifa believes that Cloud might be dead she doesn't go around punching the whole Avalanche crew.
When Rinoa is dying in space and might already be actually dead- Squall doesn't punch Ellone or his SeeD friends or the people whom planned and suggest that would be best for Rinoa to heal in space.
When Garnet is assumed dead by Kuja's magical sleeping spell- Zidane doesn't go off punching Beatrix and Queen Brahne.
When Tidus finds out that Yuna is basically on a suicidal mission- he doesn't go around punching Wakka, Lulu, Auron, Rikku etc.

Being upset or in fear that a loved one might be dead doesn't excuse physical harm like that. Even if she does have anger/ temper issues, it doesn't excuse behavior like that. Just like, even though I love Squall and everything, him having trust issues and fear of people leaving him doesn't excuse him being a ass towards his friends and treating Quistis so rudely like he does and the beginning of the game.

I never said that hitting people is the right thing to do. I'm just saying people react to anger differently, and that this was justified in-story. Just make no mistake - I don't condone it. It's just that I don't need a character to always act upstanding to like them - I want them to be believable. Having gone through depressive symptoms (and I know people here have gone through them as well and may have felt vastly differently), I can understand the pent-up amulet thing very much. But yeah, I don't think Lightning is a great protagonist, but I don't hate her, and really, I still stand by my statement that her punching isn't glorified, but is rather a flaw that gets fixed.

And Squall is the most emotionally nuanced protagonist in the series by a long shot. No, he doesn't fall in love with Rinoa for no reason - he's attracted to this girl one time and gradually he finds himself caring more and more for her. I also never got the emo thing. Did people not get that the stuff he says in brackets are his thoughts that he isn't saying out loud? So he wonders about many existential things - he's 18, it's really understandable. But on the outside he's always cool, collected, professional, just like a soldier should be. And it's awesome seeing him struggle with that image, with his suppressed emotions becoming more and more unstable because of the Rinoa stuff (mostly), and then his two faces - the overt and the hidden one - becoming more in synch by the end. Really, Squall has incredible emotional complexity that Tidus could never even compare to. And yes, like Wolf said - Tidus' "character development" stems from an epiphany that really makes no sense for him to react like that if he were an actual person. Squall felt real. And if he were on the poll, he'd be winning, as you can see by all the support here.

As a side note, I really think people are overstating the importance of character development. Like, a character being different by the end of the story is the single most important thing in storytelling, no matter how cheap or forced. Am I the only one who's prefer a more realistic and subtle character, even if they remained static throughout?

[Ayen]

I'm sorry, I don't have any sympathy for Tidus' situation I just don't. Jecht is certainly a stereotypical jock/bully but he's surprisingly likable and I feel his flashbacks from Tidus' angle (especially considering he's an unreliable narrator about his childhood) do not fully justify his resentment. I'm just from a different generation I guess.

...how old do you think I am? :p

[Fynn]

I think YOU underestimated Wolf's age XD

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm sorry, I don't have any sympathy for Tidus' situation I just don't. Jecht is certainly a stereotypical jock/bully but he's surprisingly likable and I feel his flashbacks from Tidus' angle (especially considering he's an unreliable narrator about his childhood) do not fully justify his resentment. I'm just from a different generation I guess.

...how old do you think I am? :p


I think YOU underestimated Wolf's age XD

LV0wTtiJygY

[Ayen]

I'm calling you Grandpa Kanno from now on.

On Topic: Punch Snow in the face? Nah, I'd kick him in the stones so he couldn't reproduce. We don't need a bunch of little Snows running around.

[Fynn]

I like how Serah named her cat after her boyfriend in the sequel.

[Pike]

I'm sorry, I don't have any sympathy for Tidus' situation I just don't. Jecht is certainly a stereotypical jock/bully but he's surprisingly likable and I feel his flashbacks from Tidus' angle (especially considering he's an unreliable narrator about his childhood) do not fully justify his resentment. I'm just from a different generation I guess.

Aren't you younger than I am, bub?

If so I do love when people younger than me say this kind of stuff, same with the people younger than me who say they were too old for Pokemon when it first came out (cause I certainly wasn't)

[Psychotic]

On Topic: Punch Snow in the face? Nah, I'd kick him in the stones so he couldn't reproduce. We don't need a bunch of little Snows running around.Snow would absolutely kick your ass dude. Snow would kick every single person on this forum's ass. Except he wouldn't because he's a nice fella! Anyone that thinks Snow's actions in the game warrant a punch is more deserving of a punch than Snow. The dude isn't a bad person, he's not nasty, spiteful or manipulative. He's just big dumb idealistic lug who is trying to do the right thing. I mean really, do you folk believe in a "You're dumb therefore you deserve physical violence" creed? 'cause okay EoFF Hitlers chill out jeez... and then by your own rules punch yourselves in the face WHADDUP :smug:

[Fynn]

So now disliking stupid characters makes me Hitled. Awesome. Highlight of my day, truly.

[Psychotic]

So you think it is acceptable to inflict violence because of a perceived lack of intelligence, eh? And it's the highlight of your day, no less? Tell me, sir, where does this wanton cruelty end? What about babies with their lack of brain development? Are they fair game for a casual drop kick to the face? Apparently so in your world. And I suppose it's a given that defenceless yet dumb animals exist only to be brutalised? You know, I've always thought you seemed like the sort that gleefully crams live amphibians into blenders and then dips nachos into the resulting goo and I'm saddened yet vindicated that this thread has confirmed it.

[Fynn]

Okay, that did make me chuckle :p

But for the record, there's a difference between thinking a character's actions are understandable and condoning them.

(That's more me adding some arguments to my dispute with maybee, I'm pretty much a newt killer like Psychotic said, otherwise :exdee:)

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm sorry, I don't have any sympathy for Tidus' situation I just don't. Jecht is certainly a stereotypical jock/bully but he's surprisingly likable and I feel his flashbacks from Tidus' angle (especially considering he's an unreliable narrator about his childhood) do not fully justify his resentment. I'm just from a different generation I guess.

Aren't you younger than I am, bub?

If so I do love when people younger than me say this kind of stuff, same with the people younger than me who say they were too old for Pokemon when it first came out (cause I certainly wasn't)

I'm pretty sure I am older than you by a few years. I think only Del, Shlup, and a handful of oldbie members are older than me and even then, the difference was in months. I was certainly too old for first gen Pokemon when it came out but it didn't stop me from playing it. ;)

Back on topic, I actually didn't mind Snow. Yes he's an idiot and he got robbed a lot of character building screen-time, but his heart is in the right place most of the time, so I did find Lightning's retribution against him to be a little disproportionate at times. Especially when you find out she's also partly to blame for Serah's predicament.

[Madame Adequate]

On Topic: Punch Snow in the face? Nah, I'd kick him in the stones so he couldn't reproduce. We don't need a bunch of little Snows running around.Snow would absolutely kick your ass dude. Snow would kick every single person on this forum's ass. Except he wouldn't because he's a nice fella! Anyone that thinks Snow's actions in the game warrant a punch is more deserving of a punch than Snow. The dude isn't a bad person, he's not nasty, spiteful or manipulative. He's just big dumb idealistic lug who is trying to do the right thing. I mean really, do you folk believe in a "You're dumb therefore you deserve physical violence" creed? 'cause okay EoFF Hitlers chill out jeez... and then by your own rules punch yourselves in the face WHADDUP :smug:

i'm gonna tell dan you like snow and then what, your best mate will call you a pedophile

[Pike]

On the topic of FFXIII characters, I haven't played the game yet but watched a lot of it over Mister Adequate's shoulder when he played it and none of the characters really stuck out to me. They were just kind of there. I felt that way over much (but not all) of the FFXII cast too. I think the last numbered FF game with an ensemble cast that I really liked was FFX.

That might be kind of why I like FFX, it was just this weird cast of lovable idiots. Brought me back to stuff like FFVII and FFVI.

[Madame Adequate]

also wk if we're going by "i'm older than you" then i'll retort with both "my uncle works at nintendo" and "my dad could beat up your dad" as schoolyard arguments to win this :smug:

ps vanille certainly attracts attention whenever she has a big aussie orgasm on the back of hecaton

[Wolf Kanno]

also wk if we're going by "i'm older than you" then i'll retort with both "my uncle works at nintendo" and "my dad could beat up your dad" as schoolyard arguments to win this :smug:

ps vanille certainly attracts attention whenever she has a big aussie orgasm on the back of hecaton

I simply feel that Tidus is being overly sensitive and wimp concerning Jecht. :p

Let's also not discuss Ms. Sex-Object

[Psychotic]

On Topic: Punch Snow in the face? Nah, I'd kick him in the stones so he couldn't reproduce. We don't need a bunch of little Snows running around.Snow would absolutely kick your ass dude. Snow would kick every single person on this forum's ass. Except he wouldn't because he's a nice fella! Anyone that thinks Snow's actions in the game warrant a punch is more deserving of a punch than Snow. The dude isn't a bad person, he's not nasty, spiteful or manipulative. He's just big dumb idealistic lug who is trying to do the right thing. I mean really, do you folk believe in a "You're dumb therefore you deserve physical violence" creed? 'cause okay EoFF Hitlers chill out jeez... and then by your own rules punch yourselves in the face WHADDUP :smug:

i'm gonna tell dan you like snow and then what, your best mate will call you a pedophilehe'd probably put an a in it to be fair m8y

[Madame Adequate]

i'll grant you that point

[Psychotic]

i'll grant you that point
OOO-OOO-OOO-OOO-OOO-OOO

MYSTERIOUS GIRL

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125404/3194368-0748034558-22sm5.jpg

I WANNA GET CLOSE TO YOU

[Pumpkin]

SO MUCH TO SAY SO LITTLE TIME

I personally feel like Squall was a wonderful protagonist. He was whiny and anti-social but it was because he is emotionally stunted and acts like... well someone who is emotionally stunted. And I don't mean in the way people use to insult others, I mean he is legitimately and literally emotionally stunted. That's the point. That is the entire point. And they show us this in a great way by slowly showing us his development and his thought process the entire time. He isn't just an ass and then suddenly he isn't and they were like "oh he had issues" and we're like "oh, okay." They showed us firsthand as the whole game went along and I thought it was awesome. I also think it showed great spirit and affection how his friends and companions interacted with him based off of this. One thing that always interests me is mental illness in video game characters. In this case, most likely BPD. To be diagnosed with BPD, one must fit 5 of these criteria:



Fear of abandonment
Unstable or changing relationships
Unstable self-image; struggles with identity or sense of self
Impulsive or self-damaging behaviors (e.g., excessive spending, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).
Suicidal behavior or self-injury
Varied or random mood swings
Constant feelings of worthlessness or sadness
Problems with anger, including frequent loss of temper or physical fights
Stress-related paranoia or loss of contact with reality


In case you haven't played the game, I would say he fits 6 of those, if not 7. I think it is very interesting to see a story told around a character like that, especially since I would say on the whole, mental illness is under represented in games even though I can think of a number of characters who would classify in to some of these issues.

As for Tidus, he does grow and develop but he is pretty annoying at first. I get that he has father issues. I get it. TRUST ME, I get it. But at the same time its just personally hard for me to identify with him. He ends up in practically a whole new world with new cultures, values and beliefs, and the rate at which he disrespects them is astounding and off-putting, even when he means well. He also asks very stupid questions. I get that he's like an avatar for the player to learn about the world but he needs to fill in the blanks and use context sometimes because I first played the game as a child and I understood more than he did because I PAID ATTENTION AND USED CONTEXT CUES. Like a normal person. I kind of disliked Lulu's attitude a lot of the time but I can also understand her getting frustrated because some of his questions were like... pay attention Tidus. Really. Pay attention.

I hate Lightning. I do. And I get that her punching people is a character flaw, but as maybee said, most FF characters have some issues and don't go around punching people in the face on a regular and repeated basis. Imagine if the roles were reversed. We wouldn't be like "oh ho ho, sure it isn't good but girl kinda needed some punches to the face because she's annoying". We would be like "Damn, that's not funny. That's not cool." and it would be portrayed about as seriously as it actually as opposed to "Haha that Snow sure is annoying." Especially since Snow, for all of his faults, really really cares about her sister and everyone else and gosh darn it is trying his hardest. It's not like he's even being a jerk wad or anything like that. I really dislike Lightning for numerous reasons.

Also I really like Zidane as I mentioned in this thread before I think because he's just a good, solid, caring guy. He does have his faults but at the end of the day he is very caring and self-sacrificing and I seriously admire his ability to put on a happy face despite his internal struggles. Same thing with Yuna.

That's just how I feel anyway :D

Edit: Also just to be super clear, I don't condone diagnosing real people if you aren't a professional. It's just fun to look at fictional characters in different lights like this!

[Madame Adequate]

i'll grant you that point
OOO-OOO-OOO-OOO-OOO-OOO

MYSTERIOUS GIRL

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125404/3194368-0748034558-22sm5.jpg

I WANNA GET CLOSE TO YOU

please leave

[Forsaken Lover]

1. We know for a fact Jecht was verbally abusive.

2. We know for a fact he was an alcoholic.

These two things alone give a fucking six-year-old more than enough justification to resent him.

What's more, his revelation makes perfect sense. A young boy wishing he was the center of his mother's universe is perfectly natural. This is only compounded by how she gives up on life and leaves Tidus after Jecht's disappearance.

These are a lot of complicated, confusing events with a whole slue of emotional responses that would be terrible for anyone, let alone a small child who's not equipped to properly process or understand them.

Tidus realizing that, in spite of all of Jecht's actual flaws, his father had still loved him, was very important I'd say.

But somehow Squall's own childhood traumas and his response to them are somehow more "real." I don't see it, sorry.


And Cloud is still the best.

[Madame Adequate]

So for people who think Lightning deserves condemnation because she decks Snow a couple times, you do realize that in almost every FF, almost every playable character mows down armies of human enemies, right?

[Fynn]

1. We know for a fact Jecht was verbally abusive.

2. We know for a fact he was an alcoholic.

These two things alone give a smurfing six-year-old more than enough justification to resent him.

What's more, his revelation makes perfect sense. A young boy wishing he was the center of his mother's universe is perfectly natural. This is only compounded by how she gives up on life and leaves Tidus after Jecht's disappearance.

These are a lot of complicated, confusing events with a whole slue of emotional responses that would be terrible for anyone, let alone a small child who's not equipped to properly process or understand them.

Tidus realizing that, in spite of all of Jecht's actual flaws, his father had still loved him, was very important I'd say.

But somehow Squall's own childhood traumas and his response to them are somehow more "real." I don't see it, sorry.


And Cloud is still the best.
That's just the thing - for all the abuse he had to take as a kid and how he has come to hate the image of his father he had in his head - and since we see it all from his perspective, he does percevie him as pretty one-dimensionally evil - it really doesn;t make sense for him to be so easily forgiving of him.

No, sorry, not buying it. Squall still wins because he actually acts like an emotionally stunted person. Tidus' only problem stemming from his daddy issues is that he hates his dad. And then magic happened and he wasn't racist anymore.

[Pike]

My fave thing about Tidus is that he had a sucky life but he's still like dumb and goofy and optimistic, like me :3:

tbh though the more a FF tries to make their main character ~super serious~ the less I tend to like it. I do not take the FF series seriously... like not even remotely. The goofier an FF and its characters are, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

[Fynn]

FFVIII was still goofy as hell and Squall had his goofy moments as well, but for me goofiness doesn't excuse thoughtless writing. I like the approach they had with Squall better, where he was realistic psychologically, but also had his comically serious moments. But that's just me :monster:

[Pike]

but for me goofiness doesn't excuse thoughtless writing

ahh this is where our differences stem from, I don't care about the writing in FF. Like... at all. For me it's about 80% gameplay (by which I mean battle system) and 20% ridiculous over-the-top characters/jokes. That's not to say I don't like writing and story in games, but it's not a priority to me most of the time and ESPECIALLY not in FF, which I play for the grinding and the laughs. :spin: FF is a super cheesy JRPG series, that's why I like it.

[Forsaken Lover]

But the thing you and the others are missing is that Tidus NEVER truly hated his father.

One of my favorite little lines in the whole game is:
"Even ten years after he left...just thinking about my old man got me angry. But maybe that was just my way of keeping him... Nah."


Tidus clings to his bitter memories of Jecht because, for him, they're a coping mechanism. As long as he "hates" his father, his father is kept alive.

When he learns that, not only is Jecht alive, he wasn't quite as bad as Tidus thought for a long, long time, he naturally re-evaluates things. He no longer needs to put up his facade of hatred.




So for people who think Lightning deserves condemnation because she decks Snow a couple times, you do realize that in almost every FF, almost every playable character mows down armies of human enemies, right?

Killing people trying to kill you =/= hitting a guy who your sister absolutely loved and who is only trying to help said sister.

That's a really faulty comparison in every way.

Mostly people don't like Lightning because she radiates an unlikable personality. She's a bitch, to put it bluntly. She's mad at everyone, even people who don't deserve it, and treats much of the cast like dirt.

Every member of the XIII cast has some pretty major issues but the way Lightning deals with hers is second only to Hope in being annoying. Only Hope is a little civilian boy. Lightning is a trained soldier.

Granted, it seems like Snow's and Vanille's way of dealing with their own trauma doesn't seem to sit well with people, either. Who knew being nice was so terrible?

[Fynn]

It's not about being nice. It's about being thoughtless. Snow says he'll do it, but he has no plan, no idea how to make it work and doesn't even attempt to think about hit. He just goes in, forcing his way, hoping one thing just clicks along the way. The reason I dislike him so much is that he just doesn't stop and think even for a second, which really is what a normal person would do when the stakes are so high.

Vanille I'm just meh about since she's just bland and clearly only there for the fanservice.

And for the record, I love nice characters (heck, being nice was like the biggest characteristic of my last RP character) and I think people are way too often mistaking "rounded, three dimensional, and strong" for "basically a huge dick". But I want my characters to feel real first, and if they're real and nice, that's awesome. If they're m real and bitchy, that's okay, but if they're fake and either nice or bitchy, then all they get from me is a groan. It's all in the writing and if they're not in your face and I can understand where they're coming from with their niceness/bitchiness, I will like them as a character, even if I wouldn't like them as a human being.

[Psychotic]

So for people who think Lightning deserves condemnation because she decks Snow a couple times, you do realize that in almost every FF, almost every playable character mows down armies of human enemies, right?self defence bra it's kill or be killed not quite the same

also approx 0% of those human arm things you're talking about have the dulcet tones of mr troy baker soooo...

[Madame Adequate]

often enough it's only "self defence" because they've busted into some military facility or something and violently resist efforts at apprehension

[Ayen]

On Topic: Punch Snow in the face? Nah, I'd kick him in the stones so he couldn't reproduce. We don't need a bunch of little Snows running around.Snow would absolutely kick your ass dude. Snow would kick every single person on this forum's ass. Except he wouldn't because he doesn't exist.

Fixed it for you.

[Forsaken Lover]

It's not about being nice. It's about being thoughtless. Snow says he'll do it, but he has no plan, no idea how to make it work and doesn't even attempt to think about hit. He just goes in, forcing his way, hoping one thing just clicks along the way. The reason I dislike him so much is that he just doesn't stop and think even for a second, which really is what a normal person would do when the stakes are so high.

Or, more likely, and as is canon with Snow, he's merely masking his fears of failure beneath bravado. As long as he keeps saying "I can save Serah!" it's true to him. He doesn't want to face the far more likely possibility she's lost to him forever. In short, it's basic denial, a very common trait in the face of loss.



Vanille I'm just meh about since she's just bland and clearly only there for the fanservice.

Isn't the whole game because of her and didn't she save the world in the end?

[Madame Adequate]

yeah she and fang are the most important characters of them all

[Fynn]

That's the thing - Fang alone would've been enough. But let's throw in that little girl (who's actually seven hundred years old, so you can fantasize about her all you want) to fill that genki girl quota.

And even if the intention was for Snow to be in denial about it, doesn't mean it was well executed - IMO, it really wasn't. But that's just my opinion.

And I think we might be straying from the topic a little right now :erm:

[Psychotic]

often enough it's only "self defence" because they've busted into some military facility or something and violently resist efforts at apprehensionor trying to stop an evil empire invading a small mining town or stop an evil corporation from collapsing a pillar to murder thousands of people or to stop an evil kingdom that's sending troops to smurf up an innocent town of rat people or to stop a corrupt religion that is trying to force them into marriage #justherothings #snow #snowfandom #ifsnowhadbeentheredomawouldneverhavebeenpoisoned


On Topic: Punch Snow in the face? Nah, I'd kick him in the stones so he couldn't reproduce. We don't need a bunch of little Snows running around.Snow would absolutely kick your ass dude. Snow would kick every single person on this forum's ass. Except he wouldn't because he doesn't exist.

Fixed it for you.That's all very well and good but you're the one who started claiming you were going to "kick him in the stones" in the first place. I was just humouring your delusion of his existence. But oh no, now that your exotic revenge fantasy against him has soured you want out? Oh ho ho, no no no. Don't start a fire if you don't want to get burned. Get back into your imagination and take your well-deserved beating.

[maybee]

I like how Serah named her cat after her boyfriend in the sequel.

Because she knows that Snow is a pussy.

[Fynn]

Does that mean Serah actually like pus-, uh, pudding?

[Mr. Carnelian]

I like how Serah named her cat after her boyfriend in the sequel.

Because she knows that Snow is a pussy.

For some reason, that reminded me of this.

Snow's just this super cool guy, you know?

6egZo2rg84U

Anywho, I know I've only scratched the surface of Final Fantasy, but so far I've got to say that the best protagonist is Lightning, with X-2 Yuna second.

[Ayen]

Get back into your imagination and take your well-deserved beating.

Not without at least several months of buildup and me getting cheap victories over him leading to the payoff.

But since he's 'nice' I have nothing to fear. Now take your bad Heidegger impersonation somewhere else.

[Madame Adequate]

often enough it's only "self defence" because they've busted into some military facility or something and violently resist efforts at apprehensionor trying to stop an evil empire invading a small mining town or stop an evil corporation from collapsing a pillar to murder thousands of people or to stop an evil kingdom that's sending troops to smurf up an innocent town of rat people or to stop a corrupt religion that is trying to force them into marriage #justherothings #snow #snowfandom #ifsnowhadbeentheredomawouldneverhavebeenpoisoned

I was actually with you until that last line, you will take back all slanders you level against Cyan, noblest of men.

[Psychotic]

I will because I didn't intend it as such and Cyan is indeed a god tier beast.

[maybee]

#ifsnowhadbeentheredomawouldneverhavebeenpoisoned

Being completely honest and serious here- Snow reminds me of a good ( good as in a good person ) version of Seifer Almasy ? They both suffer from a ego that they both believe that they should or they are the hero and they both try and act like heroes. Though they both change in before thinking, both have awful leadership skills because they only think about how awesome they are, and don't really think and act seriously about any mission and just play hero. If Snow took part within the Doma battles after the poisoning- he would've leaped in without thinking and would've gotten even more people killed. The difference between Seifer and Snow is that Seifer actually learns from his lessons ( as seen by the ending with him fishing with Fu and Ru and smiling happy at Balamb Garden ) and Snow keeps on being and acting like he's a hero.

As Fynn has already said- he doesn't stop and actually think about it. He just rushes in. Doma would of been completely destroyed and ruined.

There's a reason why Seifer got heavily punished for his actions at Dollet because he doesn't stop and think about anything and just rushes in and just wants to fight Galbadian soldiers and play hero and take in all the glory.

I hate Lightning, but I hate Snow even more so for being a massive doof.

[Forsaken Lover]

FFVIII, being a very bad game with a story and script written by chimpanzees with Down Syndrome, proved that Seifer's way was the only right way. Every time a "plan" was concocted, it was utterly ludicrous, failed miserably and proved that tactical thinking is beyond chimps with metal retardation.

The only time anything succeeds in the game is when someone just says fuck it and rushes in. Seifer accomplished more by barging in and attacking Deling recklessly than the Forest Owls or SeeD's did with their Train Plan.

FFXIII isn't written much better but at least they seem to understand their limitations. The heroes don't have any real plans and that's all for teh good because their plans would probably be just as idiotic as every strategy in FFVIII. Snow recognizes that his strength lies in action, not plotting. Just charge in and hope things work out ie. the plot of every FF Game Ever.

[Ayen]

Amazing! Chimpanzees with Down Syndrome managed to write a better game than the writers of Final Fantasy XIII! One for the record books!

[Madame Adequate]

#ifsnowhadbeentheredomawouldneverhavebeenpoisoned

Being completely honest and serious here- Snow reminds me of a good ( good as in a good person ) version of Seifer Almasy ? They both suffer from a ego that they both believe that they should or they are the hero and they both try and act like heroes. Though they both change in before thinking, both have awful leadership skills because they only think about how awesome they are, and don't really think and act seriously about any mission and just play hero. If Snow took part within the Doma battles after the poisoning- he would've leaped in without thinking and would've gotten even more people killed. The difference between Seifer and Snow is that Seifer actually learns from his lessons ( as seen by the ending with him fishing with Fu and Ru and smiling happy at Balamb Garden ) and Snow keeps on being and acting like he's a hero.

As Fynn has already said- he doesn't stop and actually think about it. He just rushes in. Doma would of been completely destroyed and ruined.

There's a reason why Seifer got heavily punished for his actions at Dollet because he doesn't stop and think about anything and just rushes in and just wants to fight Galbadian soldiers and play hero and take in all the glory.

I hate Lightning, but I hate Snow even more so for being a massive doof.

tbf to Snow he does realize that being a headstrong idiot who insists he's the "hero" has caused a lot of problems, and he keeps it up for a long time because facing the reality of things is really difficult. Once he and Hope have it out though, his tone changes, and though he keeps up the schtick, he's a lot more ready to make decisions as part of the team rather than trying to be a leader.

Seifer, on the other hand, is less about him as a person and more about romanticism as a movement. He's also (obviously) a counterpoint to Squall and it's hard to really view him without using that lens, whereas Snow has no opposite number among the bad guys or anything.

[Forsaken Lover]

That's a good point. Seifer's character is reliant on Squall's character and vice versa. Their personalities and development so heavily clash that to separate one from another is a disservice to the one not being looked at.

And of course the difference between Seifer and Snow, in spite of what was said earlier, was that Seifer NEVER owned up to his mistakes. All game, every step of the way, he refused to stop and admit it.

That's the entire final scene with him.

Fujin: But... You're being manipulated, Seifer. You've lost yourself and your dream. You're just eating out of someone's hand.

Seifer promptly tells her to buzz off, ignoring everything she said. And afterward, when dragging Rinoa...

Seifer: Can't go back now! I can't go anywhere!

When confronted by Hope, Snow admits his failings. As we already saw with Fujin, Seifer never did as such.

There are obvious similarities between these two - they are the best characters of their respective games - but the thing that was initially zeroed in on is totally off.