Captain America Civil War Thread

[Colonel Angus]

uVdV-lxRPFo

:omgomg::dance::eager::excited::chocobo::omghey::cheer::squee::omg::bounce::ty::kakapo::pinkelephant ::monkey::plumcheer::peachdance::kaocheer::kaoclove::praisethesun::moogle::quina:

[krissy]

wow ok

1) can't wait now
2) i really would have preferred not to have seen that trailer
3) but now im super pumped

[Ayen]

Man, this looks like it's going to be heartbreaking.

I love it!

[NorthernChaosGod]

:hyper:

[Colonel Angus]

I'm really shocked that they decided to release it now. I'm guessing they wanted to get the jump on X-Men: Apocalypse, but that trailer's not coming out until Star Wars, & that's a few weeks away. I think they should've waited until next week or the one after, & paired it w/ Agents of SHIELD. But I guess that's the marketing equivalent of "preaching to the choir".

#163Days

[Ayen]

2016 is going to be smurfing awesome in comic book movies. Iron Man versus Captain America, Batman versus Superman, X-Men versus Apocalypse. I can't wait!

[Depression Moon]

https://twitter.com/robcanvas/status/669414339380670464?s=09

[Del Murder]

It looks great. Bucky and Cap beating up on Iron Man...wow.

I recently read the Civil War comic and the concept was interesting but I felt it was poorly written. Hopefully it works out better on the big screen but if it doesn't, at least we'll get some great battles.

[DMKA]

I hate that Cap and Iron Man are fighting against each other. :(

I hate more that May is so far away.

[Freya]

oooooooooooooo

ooo
ooooo

Where's spiderman :colbert:

[Ayen]

oooooooooooooo

ooo
ooooo

Where's spiderman :colbert:

Some say he's jumping on a car at one part of the trailer, but I haven't taken the time to look. They probably won't show him until we're closer to release.

[Colonel Angus]

oooooooooooooo

ooo
ooooo

Where's spiderman :colbert:
65910

[Big D]

My body is very much ready. I'm hoping for this to be the truly great 'Avengers' sequel we were denied in 'Age of Ultron'.

There's something I'm wondering about, although I'm happy to keep wondering until the movie actually comes out. The trailer implies that Bucky is the main reason for Rogers turning against Stark and the campaign for public oversight of superheroes. I'd like to think, though, that Stark is at least partly motivated by guilt or remorse: in 'Age of Ultron', thousands of people died as a result of him dicking around with powers beyond his comprehension, without accountability or oversight. I'm hoping this'll be at least a partial motivation for him in 'Civil War', and that it's been left out of the trailer because (1) ain't no trailer got time for that, and (2) they don't want to remind us too much of the last 'Avengers' outing.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to 'Civil War', and I'm hoping for a truly worthy successor to 'The Winter Soldier', which I consider one of the very best superhero films of all, as well as an outstanding action movie and espionage flick in its own right.

[charliepanayi]

Tony Stark is rich, of course he doesn't have accountability.

[Mr. Carnelian]

Am I the only one who sympathises with Iron Man's apparent position?

Is it so unreasonable for superheroes to be held accountable for their actions, and to have official oversight? Seems like a good idea to me. I mean, I trust MI5, the police and the army in broad terms, but that doesn't mean that I want them to run unchecked.

I'm sure it will turn out that the regulation people are evil, because Captain America's the good guy and it's his film, blah, blah, blah... So predictable. :slump:

[Colonel Angus]

I just don't know how government regulating Super Powered individuals would save lives. To me it's all a sham, so they could control who, why and when Super Heroes do their thing. They'll use the Super Heroes to do their bidding.

[Formalhaut]

I just don't know how government regulating Super Powered individuals would save lives. To me it's all a sham, so they could control who, why and when Super Heroes do their thing. They'll use the Super Heroes to do their bidding.

As Mr. Carny said, it's definitely fishy, and because it is a Captain America film and he is the lead role, he is the protagonist of the film so I'd find it likely his position to be the correct one.

Having said that, if they then throw a curveball and it turns out that Captain America has been wrong the entire time, that'd be something. I do wonder how the whole Bucky thing will turn out. I can't say I was particularly enamored with that sub-plot in The Winter Soldier, if I have to be honest.

[Big D]

I just don't know how government regulating Super Powered individuals would save lives. To me it's all a sham, so they could control who, why and when Super Heroes do their thing. They'll use the Super Heroes to do their bidding.For me, the movie's central conflict (what we know of it, at least) works well because *both* sides have solid arguments behind them.

Government oversight means that the public can have assurance that their democratically-elected representatives are looking out for them. When you've got superheroes who are essentially walking WMDs, people will need to be reassured that someone's looking out for their interests, so they don't have to be constantly in fear for their lives because one of these 'heroes' could blunder or lash out in rage, free from any real accountability.

But at the same time, regulation and oversight risks political interference, turning superheroes' lives into military tools servicing political agenda. There's also the argument which would close to the heart for a WWII veteran like Rogers: the inherent danger of allowing a government, even a democratically-elected one, to categorise and regulate human beings based on differences in body, mind and ability.

Solid arguments exist both in favour and in opposition, distinguished mainly by the perspective and motivations of the individual. If the movie plays it that way, and both sides of the 'civil war' honestly believe they're doing the right thing for the right reasons, it'll make the struggle feel all the more 'real' and tragic.

[Slothy]

From the trailer it also looks to some degree like the conflict also stems from them wanting to bring Bucky to justice for his crimes while he was the brainwashed Winter Soldier, but at this point it clearly wouldn't really be just to imprison him for that since he wasn't in control and seems to be figuring out who he was and is now. So I'm sure regulation plays a role, but also Cap's defending of his best friend who he grew up with may be what pushes him onto the opposing side.

Also, it's worth mentioning that anyone who wants to read some comics about how registration and regulation of heroes can get out of hand may want to read the first 24 or so issues of The Ultimates. Basically Ultimate universe Avengers but they were formed as a government team and controlled as one. It lead to a rather massive conflict because of their clandestine actions in other countries on orders from the government and does a better job of showing the downsides of this than the Civil War series did honestly.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Am I the only one who sympathises with Iron Man's apparent position?

Is it so unreasonable for superheroes to be held accountable for their actions, and to have official oversight? Seems like a good idea to me. I mean, I trust MI5, the police and the army in broad terms, but that doesn't mean that I want them to run unchecked.

I'm sure it will turn out that the regulation people are evil, because Captain America's the good guy and it's his film, blah, blah, blah... So predictable. :slump:

I'm pretty sure Iron Man is the one that's "right" in the comics. Although it being a Cap movie instead of Avengers, I guess they could change that.

[Slothy]

The problem with the comics is that Iron Man was the one with the better thought out position but they acted like Cap was the one who was totally and completely right. All of this in spite of them wanting to do a more nuanced story where neither one was strictly right or wrong. The Civil War comics just didn't do a very good job of dealing with the potential the concept had. Hopefully the movie does better.

[Ayen]

Hopefully. Maybe that was their inspiration for doing it. Wanting to rectify how badly the comic story went. This may be one of the few times where comic book fans won't be unhappy that a movie isn't following the comics panel for panel.

[Slothy]

True. The only thing I really liked about Civil War was it lead to some great stories for Iron Man in the aftermath. His solo series was absolutely awesome after that. Especially after Secret Invasion when he had to destroy the only remaining copy of the registration list which just so happened to be in his brain to keep it away from Norman Osborn.

[Shiny]

At least this will be a some what fair fight. The Batman vs. Superman movie is laughable to me because there is no way that is even remotely fair. Batman is a human without any actual powers other than just being rich, smart and having gadgets. Superman is an alien with only one weakness that is more crippling than fatal. He has lazer eyes. Batman you sure bruh?

[Ayen]

At least this will be a some what fair fight. The Batman vs. Superman movie is laughable to me because there is no way that is even remotely fair. Batman is a human without any actual powers other than just being rich, smart and having gadgets. Superman is an alien with only one weakness that is more crippling than fatal. He has lazer eyes. Batman you sure bruh?

Batman has outwitted people with superpowers in the comics before by using his intelligence and wits. The issue I have with the movie going this route is because a lot of them never really focus much on his intellect and just did the punching bad guys in the face routine in nearly every movie. Some time using scare tactics. Not the Batman that think two moves ahead. It's reason for concern.

And Superman actually has three weaknesses, but the movies and shows only really know how to exploit the one.

-disengage nerd mode-

[Colonel Angus]

Superman's 3 weaknesses:

1. Kryptonite
2. Brunettes
3. Puppies

65941

[charliepanayi]

Another trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKrVegVI0Us

[Formalhaut]

It is looking good!

[Freya]

SPIDEY SPIDEY SPIDEY SPIDEY SPIDEY

http://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FfX0IfSkR34Fos%2Fgiphy.gif&key=kHPOhjXW-ieKFuqHGqS94A&w=800&h=200

i'm team cap but i love spidey.

#conflicted

[Del Murder]

Most anticipated superhero movie of the year! BatVSup might get schooled by this one.

Spidey's CGI looks off though.

[CimminyCricket]

It's still rough around the edges, but I like his costume.

[Depression Moon]

Higher res version of the costume.

http://i.imgur.com/ZKFeKoB.jpg

[Colonel Angus]

Seen the trailer six times already. I'm on a level 10 jakked: :omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg:

[charliepanayi]

Bump as it's now out (in some places anyway, including the UK). Discuss and stuff!

[Colonel Angus]

Got my tickets for Friday morning!!!!! :omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg:

[Fox]

I saw it! It was...OK! I wish they'd tried to cram in a bit less. It was a good 2 and a half hours and still felt rushed.

Also we had to sit right at the front of the cinema so it was already a strain to see everything... couple that with a whole lot of Jason Bourne shakey-cam made the action kinda uncomfortable to watch

[blackmage_nuke]

Just saw it, enjoyed it more than Winter Soldier, went back to watch the trailer and I'm damn glad I didn't see that before hand. The cam wasn't that shakey, I only counted about 2-3 scenes most of the time you could at least see what was going on.

[SammieBabe]

Going Sunday morning! Happy Mother's Day to me!

[krissy]

It was great

[Del Murder]

Saw it today and it was great. The big fight between all the Avengers was one of the best superhero fight scenes I've seen. That alone was worth the price of admission.

I loved the introduction of Spider-man. It was perfect, and Tom Holland was adorable. The Marvel Studios Spider-Man movie is now at the top of my anticipated list. Black Panther was introduced well too.

Really the only disappointing thing was Captain America didn't get a tremendous amount of development. This was as much Iron Man 4 as it was Captain America 3. It felt more like Tony's story and we are only seeing it through Cap's perspective. I guess this was a Captain America movie since Bucky played a central role to the plot and Cap led one side of the Civil War, but that was really the only reason his name was on it.

I loved the twist at the end that led you to believe it would take the typical route of the superheroes making nice to fight the big bad but then it switched things up on you and led to the rift between Tony and Cap growing even bigger. I know there are critiques of Zemo as the villain but what he tried to do made sense in the end and his motivations for it were believable. Not every villain has to get some big super weapon and threaten the world to be effective.

[charliepanayi]

Some random thoughts here:


- I thought it was very good. Not sure about this whole best Marvel film business some have suggested though. I'm not even sure it's the best Captain America film.
- I'm Team Cap. Obviously. Tony Stark is a prat.
- Pretty good set-pieces all round, especially the big airport brawl
- Joss Whedon is probably annoyed that the Russos didn't have to worry about cramming in guff about those Infinity Stones like he had to.
- Good on the Russos for getting another Community cast member in a Marvel film briefly. How about Alison Brie for Infinity War?
- Tony Stark just said what we were all thinking about Marisa Tomei being far too attractive to be Aunt May
- I liked the appearances from Spiderman (the Empire Strikes Back line is great) and Black Panther. Maybe this Spiderman film won't be pointless after all?
- Mark Ruffalo, Chris Hemsworth and Gwyneth Paltrow should have all been billed as Sirs Not Appearing In This Film
- Rather disturbing to see the return of Weird Science-era Robert Downey Jr in one scene. Marvel need to stop with this whole 'let's make actors look much older/younger' business, it's too weird.
- Loki is still the only great Marvel film villain to date. I gave Ultron a half-pass though, and I'll give Zemo one too, as even though there's little to him as a character, his plan was at least more thoughtful than what we usually get.
- I spent a lot of the film thinking Daniel Bruhl was Wes Bentley. What the hell is wrong with me?
- I know it's a terribly blokey moment, but I laughed my head off at the grins Bucky and Falcon gave Cap after he kissed Sharon Carter.
- On the other hand, kissing Peggy's niece? A bit ewww.
- Martin Freeman is in this. Wait, what?
- One year to go until Guardians of the Galaxy 2! Not fussed either way about Doctor Strange at this point.

[Pike]

I saw this and loved it. Loved Iron Man, loved Spidey, loved the whole thing. I think I liked it better than The Avengers (GotG and Iron Man are still my two favorite Marvel movies but this is a pretty solid third)

[blackmage_nuke]

Some random thoughts here:


- Rather disturbing to see the return of Weird Science-era Robert Downey Jr in one scene. Marvel need to stop with this whole 'let's make actors look much older/younger' business, it's too weird.


Weird actor reverse aging cgi aside, I think it was a pretty well made strong emotional scene to cement John Slatterly as Howard Stark in people's minds since the character has had like 3 different actors and anyone who was a consistent watcher of Agent Carter would wonder what the hell was happening and why we were meant to be emotionally invested in this random old guy only to find out later it was Howard Stark which softens the impact of the twist.

[Formalhaut]

Me and Mr. Carny just saw it. Hard to say if it was the best Marvel film to date (I really liked Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man) but it is definitely up there and was the Avengers film Age of Ultron never was.

Some general thoughts:



- Stark is still a dick. The most laughable moment came at the end. The big revelation that the big bad was manipulating the heroes to fight each other went over Stark's head, who then proceeded to hulk out and... fight Captain America and Bucky. What the hell, Iron Man? You're literally doing what the evil villain wanted you to do.
- It even seems to rubbed off on Vision as well, who I really liked but now Vision adopted this strange air of superiority as well at times, like a vaguely annoying lawful good character.
- Vision is too overpowered. I mean, did you see the fight between Vision and Hawkeye? He's way too perfect. Which folds into the reason why my estimation of Vision has decreased slightly. He's just too good.

- Grievances aside, I loved the introduction of Black Panther. He came across as more balanced than Captain America and Iron Man, by the end, actually learning the lesson of the film and letting go of his vengeance. Looking forward to his solo film later.
- The reintroduction of Ant-Man were great, too. Hawk-eye was his usual self. It's almost as if the actor knows how underpowered he is and sort of plays on that for laughs.
- Spiderman was okay. Though the voice is grating - has that sort of teenage American boy vibe. Maybe he'll grow on me. It was funny for a time, playing on his youth and ineptitude but it got tiring after awhile. His adoration of Stark won him no favours with me either. Creepy award for Stark being in his room going "Your aunt May will never have to find out". Eww. Also Stark: recruiting a teenager? Seriously?

- The central dilemma is compelling and pretty well done. Those supporting oversight were always at a disadvantage because the law of films dictate that there's always something more going on - the whole 'Bucky didn't do it' was pretty obvious.
- Ultimately, by the close of film, no clear resolution occurred. The Avengers still exist under oversight (looking fairly glum, truth be told) and the others, under the secret protection of Black Panther. You've basically got two competing groups now, and things are still looking very unstable.
- I like that Black Widow provides a compromise approach. Because honestly there are good arguments for both sides. Though it is interesting that there doesn't seem to be a riposte for the assertion that oversight could be corrupted in some way.

[Crop]

Saw it. I thought it was....ok.

I enjoyed The Winter Solider more. I liked Spiderman but I'm not looking forward to yet another Spiderman film. I liked Black Panther enough I guess, but I'm not looking forward to that film either.

I dunno, I thought the action was great, but I guess I'm just tired of every film having an arching setup to yet another film. But then again, I've never been as into superheroes as other people are. I was more excited during the trailers for Independence Day 2 and Jason Bourne tbh.

[Freya]

I think this movie amped me more for Thor ragnorock more than anything. the whole time I'm wondering wtf is Thor getting up to, him and HULK? Where are they. All this petty stuff going on, and they're missing, that's strange! I bet they have some serious shit to deal with instead of putting a firm stop to the nonsense.

[Miriel]

I really liked it!

I thought that they did a great job of showing that both sides were kinda right, kinda wrong, so you end up rooting for both?? What a tough thing to sell but they managed it pretty well.

I'm also usually pretty good about spotting how the storyline might play out in any given movie or show, but all the foreshadowing totally went WHOOSH right over my head with the end reveal about Tony's parents. So that scene was smurfing horrifying to watch. It was SO brutal. My god. I know it wasn't Bucky's fault. I know he's Cap's BFF. But damn dude, at some point maybe it's better if you just died? Like, seriously?

The "He killed my mom" just gutted me and I totally was on Stark's side in that fight. I mean, even if it wasn't intentional, you can't go around killing people's moms yo. I'm extra sensitive to it right now because of some real life events, so that smurfing tore at my heart y'all. Jesus.

Also, Spiderman was so perfect and adorable, omg. He had me rolling during the fight scene. That whole fight scene was amazing. I also really loved the animosity between Falcon and Bucky.

Captain's biceps were HOLY smurfING BALLS. Damn.

I wish there were some Asian people in this movie.

[Slothy]

I thought that they did a great job of showing that both sides were kinda right, kinda wrong, so you end up rooting for both?? What a tough thing to sell but they managed it pretty well.

This is actually one of the things I was happiest about. The comics did a terrible job of this to be honest. It's one of the things that had me the most worried about this. Hanging your hat on a story element this important means it needs to work and it absolutely did.

I also liked that it wasn't just they each have a stance and start fighting. They were trying to talk things out and find common ground. Tony even agrees the deal isn't perfect and argues for trying to push for improvements after they agree. The thing pushing them to conflict being Bucky's return and framing forcing Cap to act which in turn puts pressure on Tony to bring him in works brilliantly. I couldn't be happier with the movie.

[Formalhaut]

My god. I know it wasn't Bucky's fault. I know he's Cap's BFF. But damn dude, at some point maybe it's better if you just died? Like, seriously?

That's pretty cold. :onoes:

I mean, talking about cold, he agreed to have himself cryogenically frozen, so it isn't as if he's just roaming free waiting for someone to mind control him.

[Mr. Carnelian]

Me and Mr. Carny just saw it. Hard to say if it was the best Marvel film to date (I really liked Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man) but it is definitely up there and was the Avengers film Age of Ultron never was.

Some general thoughts:



- Stark is still a dick. The most laughable moment came at the end. The big revelation that the big bad was manipulating the heroes to fight each other went over Stark's head, who then proceeded to hulk out and... fight Captain America and Bucky. What the hell, Iron Man? You're literally doing what the evil villain wanted you to do.
- It even seems to rubbed off on Vision as well, who I really liked but now Vision adopted this strange air of superiority as well at times, like a vaguely annoying lawful good character.
- Vision is too overpowered. I mean, did you see the fight between Vision and Hawkeye? He's way too perfect. Which folds into the reason why my estimation of Vision has decreased slightly. He's just too good.

- Grievances aside, I loved the introduction of Black Panther. He came across as more balanced than Captain America and Iron Man, by the end, actually learning the lesson of the film and letting go of his vengeance. Looking forward to his solo film later.
- The reintroduction of Ant-Man were great, too. Hawk-eye was his usual self. It's almost as if the actor knows how underpowered he is and sort of plays on that for laughs.
- Spiderman was okay. Though the voice is grating - has that sort of teenage American boy vibe. Maybe he'll grow on me. It was funny for a time, playing on his youth and ineptitude but it got tiring after awhile. His adoration of Stark won him no favours with me either. Creepy award for Stark being in his room going "Your aunt May will never have to find out". Eww. Also Stark: recruiting a teenager? Seriously?

- The central dilemma is compelling and pretty well done. Those supporting oversight were always at a disadvantage because the law of films dictate that there's always something more going on - the whole 'Bucky didn't do it' was pretty obvious.
- Ultimately, by the close of film, no clear resolution occurred. The Avengers still exist under oversight (looking fairly glum, truth be told) and the others, under the secret protection of Black Panther. You've basically got two competing groups now, and things are still looking very unstable.
- I like that Black Widow provides a compromise approach. Because honestly there are good arguments for both sides. Though it is interesting that there doesn't seem to be a riposte for the assertion that oversight could be corrupted in some way.


I agree with all this. The only thing I would add is that Stark should NOT have brought a teenager into a superhero war when he could have literally ended up being torn into pieces. Bad Tony. Also, I'm sick of high-school Spiderman, we've had enough of him over the last decade or so in films. Give us middle-aged Spiderman, struggling to balance superheroism with a full-time job and a mortgage.

[Slothy]

Forgot to mention that I loved Spidey mentioning that Cap's shield doesn't obey the laws of physics. About time someone acknowledged it. :D

And to be fair, we've never actually gotten teenage Spider-Man before. Tobey McGuire was in high school for all of thirty minutes and Andrew Garfield was playing someone but it wasn't Peter Parker. Also gives us a good chance to see Peter age into adulthood in his own movies, and without the need for another origin story.

[charliepanayi]

On a sort of related note, this had me in stitches:

https://twitter.com/hownottodraw/status/729797659431686144

[Freya]

Captain's biceps were HOLY smurfING BALLS. Damn.




Seriously! When he has the helicopter I was like "Holy shit dude"

[Slothy]

Cap is sexy as fuck.

[Del Murder]

The helicopter scene was pretty badass. I think the audience forgets sometimes how strong Cap is. He's not just some buff guy with a shield.

[charliepanayi]

The helicopter scene was pretty badass. I think the audience forgets sometimes how strong Cap is. He's not just some buff guy with a shield.

I like the brief reference to his strength in Age of Ultron, when (until later anyway) he's the only one who can budge Thor's Hammer even a tiny bit (along with the worried look Thor has for a moment).

[Slothy]

He wasn't able to budge it because he's strong though. Remember in the first that Hulk wasn't even able to lift it. He was able to budge it because he's the closest to being worthy of the hammer that any human probably is. Thor looked worried because he didn't expect any human to be able to lift it and he's a lot less special if they can.

[Formalhaut]

Yeah, physical strength isn't the prerequisite for lifting the hammer. Worthiness is. I actually rather enjoyed that scene, because it tells us that there could be more than one 'worthy' individuals at any one time.

[Ffamran mied Bunansa]

Saw it last night and enjoyed it quite a bit. Mostly liked what they did with Spiderman. Cap was kind of an idiot through the whole movie. Never tried very hard to convince anyone or explain himself.

[DMKA]

Just got back from seeing it. It was very good, but kind of sad that the team is all broken up now.

Should it have even been called Captain America? The Avengers: Civil War would have been far more appropriate. :p

While the first two thirds of the movie really did everything it could to make Tony Stark look like a shortsighted tool that major revelation of a plot twist video made it nearly impossible for me to feel any sympathy for Captain America and Bucky. All in all it certainly had far more emotional conflict and moral nuance than any of the other MCU films have had. The fact that you find yourself switching sides through the course of the film and completely changing your view and feelings toward the characters is something that the movie truly deserves credit for.

[Slothy]

Saw it last night and enjoyed it quite a bit. Mostly liked what they did with Spiderman. Cap was kind of an idiot through the whole movie. Never tried very hard to convince anyone or explain himself.

Completely disagree about Cap. He made his stance very clear. Governments change and he couldn't be sure that it would be the right people overseeing where they go, or that they would be allowed to act when it might be very necessary for them to at some point in the future. It just so happens that Stark was also right about them needing to be answerable to someone and take responsibility for their actions when things do go wrong. There might be some middle ground in there somewhere that would have satisfied all parties, but they didn't have time to really discuss and explore it before the situation with Bucky blows up and Cap is forced to act outside the law to try and help his friend.


While the first two thirds of the movie really did everything it could to make Tony Stark look like a shortsighted tool

I disagree with this as well honestly. Was Tony somewhat naive to just go in and trust the government? Maybe, but he also told Cap he wanted to sign it so they could work on improving the accords down the road but that they do need to be held accountable for what they do. Considering Tony is a man who's weapons killed who knows how many people, who's ego nearly got Pepper killed in Iron Man 3, and who almost destroyed the world by accidentally creating Ultron since he was literally answerable to no one it's not surprising he's started feeling this way. He's a guy carrying around a lot of guilt for the things he's done in the past and he's probably the least capable of coping with it personality wise. So when he's yet again faced with the horror of the things he's done he does his best to do what he thinks is right, but once again kind of let's his ego get away from him by thinking he's right and there is no other way forward at the time. Shortsighted surer but not a tool. He's a flawed man trying his best to make up for his mistakes and he doesn't always make the right choice. It's part of why he's such a great character.

[Formalhaut]

We've had a few people whose views of Tony and Bucky changed immensely after seeing the revealing video at the end, you know, the one where Bucky killed Tony's parents. Maybe it is just me, but I'm still not seeing past the whole 'Bucky is being mind-controlled' element. I can understand being pissed, and while it was incredibly dumb for Stark to fight for vengence after Zemo spelling out his plan involving just that, you know, he's angry. That's fine.

But I'm sorry, but Bucky was mind-controlled. It seems harsh to condemn him for something he had no control over. I mean, the only reason why we know what Bucky did was because of a conspicious, highly suspicious filming of the event. Like some kind of emotional blackmail.

Basically, I have more sympathy for Bucky. The reveailing video doesn't really change that opinion for me.

[Slothy]

I actually feel worse for Bucky seeing how he killed them seeing as he knew the man. They might even have been friends really. And Bucky remembers it like he said. Hell, for him it probably feels like it just happened a year ago.

[Crop]

I agree with Formy. While the fight with those three was really well done, I kept thinking that Tony was being pretty stupid. Bucky was essentially just a weapon, it's like blaming a gun for killing your family instead of the person that used it.

Tony is a smart man, and I thought that was a pretty weak way to tear them apart tbh.

[Wolf Kanno]

Just watched it last night, and overall a really great film. Definitely the film Age of Ultron should have been with good story, great characterization, a good villain, good humor, and great conflict. I think my only major gripe with the film was the overuse of shaky cam that made fights scenes hard to follow and just made several scene in the film a bit jarring to watch. Never liked this type of cinematography and I really wish directors would stop overusing it. Other than that, Cap films are definitely getting better with each new one. The film also sold me on the Black Panther film, which I was still on the fence about. Spidey was great, as well as Ant-Man. Also, smoking hot Aunt May? That will make the new Spidey film interesting.

[Ayen]

Best movie in the MCU so far, far as I'm concerned. Can't find a whole lot to gripe about without nitpicking. The Russo Brothers did a good job of balancing out all the different characters. Nobody felt like they got too much or too little screen time. I'm a little more excited for Avengers 3 now knowing they intend to stuff 50+ characters into the two-part movie.

Both sides of the arguments were fleshed out well, and I loved Spider-Man and Black Panther in this. I'm definitely hyped for their movies now. I love how they made the new Spider-Man stronger than the other Avengers to balance out his lack of experience. Also...

Giant Antman was bawse.

Peter Parker just nerding the smurf out with everyone. Love the way he so casually overpowers Bucky's metal arm and goes on about how cool it was.