Good Games with Bad Combat Systems

[Laddy]

I really adore Fallout 1-2 but they are slow, unengaging, and dull whilst in combat. Arcanum takes this one step further. By giving you the option to have shitty combat in real-time.

[Spuuky]

Gothic games tend to be kind of like this. Yes, FO1/2 are very slow in combat and not that interesting. I mean FO3/4 have bad combat too but I'm not sure they're good games.

[Del Murder]

I just got finished playing Lunar Silver Star. The combat was as vanilla turn based RPG as you can get. That was probably fine at the time, but it stood out for me here since this was the updated PSP version and otherwise I thought the story and characters were awesome. Really one of the best casts of an RPG.

[Fox]

I'm gonna be controversial and nominate my favourite game of all time here: Final Fantasy IX.

I felt that the inflexibility of each characters job (and, in my opinion, the poor balancing of those jobs) coupled with the terrible Trance system and underpowered Eidolons, left almost all of the interesting depth of Final Fantasy IX outside of the actual combat.

[Vyk]

It's not an RPG, but Uncharted definitely fits as a fairly stellar game with fairly broken combat mechanics. A third person cover-shooter where you're actually better off running in and melee'ing people before their buddies can get a good bead on you. It was fun, but frequently infuriating, and fairly obvious it was one of their first third person shooter games, and the second one played way better. Need to jump into the third before the fourth one comes out. I presume it's even better as people act like it's the Holy Grail of the PS3

[Pike]

Morrowind.

Granted, I didn't hate the combat as much as most people did, but it was definitely far from the game's best feature no matter how you slice it.

[Midgar Mist]

Fox, I see your point about Final Fantasy 9 in terms of rigid job classes and weak summons. I feel the very powerful character of Steiner is underused throughout the first 2 discs and yes you lose the ability to cure by magic at times as well. Its a major come down from the magic of Final Fantasy 7.

However, its not my least favourite battle system. I would say Breath of Fire 3, which may turn out to be just as controversial a choice: You lose points off your max HP if KOd in battle until you reach an inn, the battles are also difficult, even with Ryu and his dragon power.

[DMKA]

I really liked the story and characters of Wild Arms back in the day but I always thought the battle system (and the battle visuals for that matter) sucked.

[Wolf Kanno]

Morrowind.

Granted, I didn't hate the combat as much as most people did, but it was definitely far from the game's best feature no matter how you slice it.

Switch out Xenogears in this sentence and you have my opinion. I didn't mind combat in Xenogears but I'll admit it was hardly the reason you played it.

Man, people are hitting on some of my favorite games. I guess I have a higher tolerance for vanilla turn-based combat than most people.

[Ayen]

I agree with Morrowind and Xenogears.

[Slothy]

I would hardly complain about vanilla turn based combat. It's generally nothing special but usually far from being really terrible. Personally I'd say FFXIII has some of the worst combat ever conceived. Like Pike I also have to go with Morrowind as well though. Everything else about that game is stellar but thank Satan they got rid of the fucking random chance of hitting something in their later titles. I understand where that kind of thinking came from at the time, but it's not a table top RPG. If I'm standing right next to an enemy swinging my sword or firing arrows with the cursor right over them there is zero reason it shouldn't hit. I could live with some randomized damage but my first time playing it I was literally killed by a rather while utterly confused as to why it's health didn't go down at all.

[Madame Adequate]

I tried playing UnderTale yesterday and I just couldn't get anywhere because I hated the combat so so much. I love the music and the characters and writing, but I quickly dreaded any and all fights because uggghhhh. Ended up getting a refund :( (didn't help that the graphics look like a poorly coded Amstrad CPC game)

I'm not a huge fan of the combat in the first Witcher game. It's kind of unwieldy and it's not always clear whether something happened because you goofed or Geralt did or what. That said, it didn't put me off like UnderTale's.

I love BoF3 so whilst I don't think it's battle system is perfect I would definitely dispute Fox's claims :p That said yes you can get yourself into some tight spots where losing a fight leads to losing more fights, which leads to losing more fights.

e; Personally I've always liked - not merely tolerated, but actively liked - Morrowind's combat but I recognize that I am totally alone in that and that I can't really defend it objectively. It really isn't something people can enjoy when half their attacks graphically connect but whiff and I don't blame them.

[Pete for President]

Not entirely sure if this classifies but I think MGS2, 3 and 4 all suffer from this. They're awesome games, but I can't help but feel like every instalment made things more and more complicated while they didn't have to be. Why was the auto-aim on the Socom in 1 not good enough for the others? Now we have to actually stop moving, switch camera angles (this especially confuses me), aim and then fire to take an enemy out. I remember 3 to be especially slow because of this, and 4 had just too many moves to make any of them practical. All of that turns the legendary skillful solid snake into one very clumsy rookie in my hands and totally breaks immersion imho.

[Mirage]

Final Fantasy 9.

You only need to switch to first person view to make a precision strike, which wasn't even possible in the first game for most weapons

[Wolf Kanno]

Not entirely sure if this classifies but I think MGS2, 3 and 4 all suffer from this. They're awesome games, but I can't help but feel like every instalment made things more and more complicated while they didn't have to be. Why was the auto-aim on the Socom in 1 not good enough for the others? Now we have to actually stop moving, switch camera angles (this especially confuses me), aim and then fire to take an enemy out. I remember 3 to be especially slow because of this, and 4 had just too many moves to make any of them practical. All of that turns the legendary skillful solid snake into one very clumsy rookie in my hands and totally breaks immersion imho.

You might be the first person I've met who preferred the clunky auto-aim over actually controlling your shots for MGS. I honestly can't go back to MGS1's combat after playing through the later games, it just lacks precision and flow.

I'll agree that many of MGS4's "improvements" felt gimmicky and unnecessary, but this is a thread about Good games and I still feel that MGS4 is probably the weakest entry in the franchise barring spin-off stuff. On the other hand, Portable OPS and Peace Walker may fit this bill, as both games are pretty good but the clunky controls on the PSP (MGS demands a second analog stick) makes going through the games a chore on their original platform. Course this thread is about RPGs...

Thousand Arms comes to mind, the story and characters are actually pretty funny and amusing but the combat system for the game is easily one of the worst I've seen in the genre of turn-base systems.

[Slothy]

I honestly didn't find the auto aim in MGS1 clunky but I played excessive amounts of that and beat VR Missions where every shot frequently counted so your mileage may vary.

[Ayen]

Metal Gear Solid isn't a RPG. I-I'm sorry to bring this up during the mission :(

[Pete for President]

Metal Gear Solid isn't a RPG. I-I'm sorry to bring this up during the mission :(

I know but I felt like this thread could easily fit in General Gaming Discussion too and wanted to mention MGS 2-3-4 anyway :p

[Loony BoB]

I agree with Morrowind and FFIX. I would probably also say Oblivion and Skyrim aren't anything groundbreaking, at least in memory. I enjoyed it but it was basically run forward while attacking because you're overpowered, or running back and forth from hiding positions if for some reason you need to get your HP back (or, you know, just eat craploads of cheese and bread in the middle of a swordfight).

Not gonna lie, there aren't too many amazing RPG battle systems I've stumbled across.

[theundeadhero]

Legend of Dragoon. I couldn't play the game because of it.

[Slothy]

There are lots of reasons not to play Legend of Dragoon since the whole thing is pretty mediocre but yeah, that battle system.

[Ayen]

There are lots of reasons not to play Legend of Dragoon since the whole thing is pretty mediocre but yeah, that battle system.

That's it.

I CHALLENGE YOU TO THE THUNDERDOME!

[Wolf Kanno]

I honestly felt LoD's battle system was the saving grace of the game besides the music. It certainly wasn't the plot or characters.

BoF1 comes to mind, simply because it's easy to break the game and some of the boss battles pretty much require you to do so.

Arc the Lad trilogy also comes to mind. It lacks the heavy customization need for the SRPG genre and the units tend to be unbalanced making the end game a bit tricky since you've likely focused on five characters and left everyone else to dust. The vanilla combat combined with the genres "load and loads of battles" schlick will have you quitting out of boredom pretty quick.

Controversial one here, Chrono Cross. I appreciate trying to be something different and on paper the system sounds pretty good but elements always lag behind physical attacks with upgraded weapons and the AP system works against using them often beyond healing. Summons are a chore to use and obtain and the dual/triple tech mechanic is so poorly utilized, you wonder why they even bothered. I enjoy CC but the battle system is not one of the reasons.

[DMKA]

Legend of Dragoon. I couldn't play the game because of it.

I was so obsessed with Sailor Moon and magical transforming people of Japanese origin in general during that time that it was probably that aspect of the game alone that was enough to make me play it all the way through. :p

I remember being grossly disappointed with the ending though.

[Madame Adequate]

I tried playing UnderTale yesterday and I just couldn't get anywhere because I hated the combat so so much. I love the music and the characters and writing, but I quickly dreaded any and all fights because uggghhhh. Ended up getting a refund :( (didn't help that the graphics look like a poorly coded Amstrad CPC game)

I was wrong. I was so... so... so wrong.

[Pike]

I tried playing UnderTale yesterday and I just couldn't get anywhere because I hated the combat so so much. I love the music and the characters and writing, but I quickly dreaded any and all fights because uggghhhh. Ended up getting a refund :( (didn't help that the graphics look like a poorly coded Amstrad CPC game)

I was wrong. I was so... so... so wrong.

"My video game standards are extremely high."
"Hi, I'm a video game with talking skeletons."
"OH NO! YOU'RE MEETING ALL MY STANDARDS!!"

[Mirage]

oh yeah, xenogears combat was bad, but then again, so was the entire game. mech fighting was even worse.

[Spuuky]

"My video game standards are extremely high."
"Hi, I'm a video game with talking skeletons."
"OH NO! YOU'RE MEETING ALL MY STANDARDS!!"In Breath of Death VII you play as a skeleton, but you can't talk, but you think out loud.

[CactuarKing]

Fallout 4's (which itself is a slight evolution of Fallout 3's) combat system is a bit bland and boring.

Pretty good game, just feels like a poor evolution of Fallout along the Skyrim vein.

[Pike]

I agree with Morrowind and FFIX. I would probably also say Oblivion and Skyrim aren't anything groundbreaking, at least in memory. I enjoyed it but it was basically run forward while attacking because you're overpowered, or running back and forth from hiding positions if for some reason you need to get your HP back (or, you know, just eat craploads of cheese and bread in the middle of a swordfight).

Yeah, battle was never really the strong point of TES. (Nor was dungeon design, honestly). To me, the real strong point of TES is having a fascinating open world to play around in.

Oddly enough I think I found Oblivion to have the most fun combat system; it was really hack and slashy. (I say "oddly enough" because Oblivion is my least favorite of the three recent TES games.)

[Forsaken Lover]

Xenogears' battle system wasn't bad. It just got monotonous since all you do is spam Deathblows.
Gear Combat sucked though.

Xenosaga I is kinda the same thing.

Then again Xenosaga IIi went in the opposite direction and made everything so generic and easy that it's kinda bad in its own way.

[Fynn]

Oh Jesus, yes, those Morrowind battles were terrible. I did love everything else about the game, but I couldn't really get far because the game's graphics started making me nauseaus for some reason :(

I am also one of those people who is not wild about BoF III but that may be because I played IV first and that combat was stellar, IMO.

Still, the best BoF so far is Dragon Quarter. And that's your controversial opinion from me, folks :monster: