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maybee
01-03-2016, 01:06 PM
Just recently gave this a good second chance, well, to be honest, it's more like 5th- but you know what I mean.



I love Dr Cid, despite him not playing the hero role, he's a highly complexed and highly underrated Final Fantasy villain. So charismatic and charming. I wish that he was the main villain instead of Vayne, but guess beggers can't be choosers.
The main heroes are so loveable when it comes to a party of a Final Fantasy game- there's usually one character or a few characters that you just can not stand no matter how much you make attempts- though I adore most of the main characters, yes even him. Even Vaan. Once you get to know Vaan and understand his character and why he does things, he's not so bad tbh.Even if he does look like Ellen. Though, they are not without flaws- some could be more developed, like Penelo- though it's not a Final Fantasy with some main characters being pushed to the background so others can shine. I'm not keen on Balthier still, though, there's something about him still that rubs me the wrong way. Sorry Balthier fandom.
The voices I have always loved them, even when I highly despised this game- though the breathing sounds drive me up the wall. They drive me insane. Basche-' You need to make a choice ' ! Ashe - ' * breathing sounds * ahh ah ah * nods head * Just no. Just stop that. It's like listening to a very annoying tennis match or something. Though it's just such an improvement from Final Fantasy X and beats Final Fantasy XIII with a stick. Yes, Ashe has obnoxious breathing sounds sometimes, but it beats Vanille's very fake and very horrible Australian accent, okay.






The music, yeah, still have the same feelings and emotions towards it- it's dry and hollow and dull. It still makes me miss the days of Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy IX.
Vayne is a bit dry as a villain- sorry just don't enjoy him still and he still needs a haircut.
The battle system, yeah, still not keen on it- though the characters' journey gave me the will to keep on sprinting on.
The storyline, yeah still have huge issues and problems with it- but then again I adore Final Fantasy VIII and I have issues with Squall's storyline as well. The game made me treasure the characters so much, that I'm willing to forgive, and it didn't have a random flying high school. Though compared to classics like Final Fantasy IX- tis a disappointment, though it's not the junk that I thought that it was about a decade ago. It also gave me elements of Final Fantasy VI feelings, another empire rebelling tale- that I also despised when I was younger.


Basically in short- I love this game more than I did before. It's not a treasured favourite, though it's not a loathed game anymore. Sometimes you just got to give things a second chance, or a fourth- or a sixth. Humans change and our taste buds change, we learn, change and grow and things that we once upon a time hated- we now hold dearly. My thoughts towards Final Fantasy XII are- it's not overly amazing, but it's not a rotten waste either. It's a positive and warm middle. A lovely middle. A good middle. The middle of the sandwich that holds everything together and in place.

And Princess Ashe rocks, even if she does have breathing problems. She's up there with strong female characters like Yuna and Tifa Lockhart tbh. Put her in the next Dissidia Square- Enix !

If there's a game that you hated a long time ago and you feel like giving the game a second chance- do it.

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.76029368.9505/fc,800x800,white.jpg

Formalhaut
01-03-2016, 02:57 PM
I'm glad you enjoyed it more than the last few times! In regards to the music, I'd have to partially agree; there's no 'standout' tracks that jump into my head as being memorable, unlike other games. I rather enjoyed the story, though I feel some characters barely got a look in. People like Fran and Penelo who were main characters barely get much of a look in, and other major players like Al-Cid are rather sidelined. I feel like the story is stretched thin in places, and there is an awful lot of padding: most of the southern continent is pretty much filler until you reach Bur-Omisace.

But overall, the story is a good one, and rather political, which I rather liked. I can't help but get Star Wars vibes from certain elements.

Ayen
01-03-2016, 09:07 PM
Ashe can make all the breathing sounds she wa--

I mean, yeah. I needed a second take to appreciate this game, too, now it's on my Top Ten List. I liked Vayne as a villain, though, and he won't cut off his hair. His hair is the source of his power! :eek:

CactuarKing
01-04-2016, 10:09 AM
Ashe can make all the breathing sounds she wa--

I mean, yeah. I needed a second take to appreciate this game, too, now it's on my Top Ten List. I liked Vayne as a villain, though, and he won't cut off his hair. His hair is the source of his power! :eek:

Vayne was a slightly better villain than Seymour, but still not great. Mind you, it is less convoluted than "the-baddie-is-an-all-powerful-sorceress-from-the-future-who-has-posessed-the-body-of-different-sorceresses-to-free-a-sorceress-trapped-in-space" situation in VIII (my second fave Final Fantasy BTW)

And as for Ashe and breathing, I concur!!

Fynn
01-04-2016, 01:15 PM
Yeah, I didn't even manage to beat it on my first try, and look, now it's my favorite numbered FF.

Glad you have it another go, maybee, and that you're getting some enjoyment out of it now ;)

CactuarKing
01-04-2016, 01:43 PM
Yeah, I didn't even manage to beat it on my first try, and look, now it's my favorite numbered FF.

Glad you have it another go, maybee, and that you're getting some enjoyment out of it now ;)

Wow, you must have really hated the other FF games to declare this one your favourite!!:erm:

Fynn
01-04-2016, 01:58 PM
Yeah, I didn't even manage to beat it on my first try, and look, now it's my favorite numbered FF.

Glad you have it another go, maybee, and that you're getting some enjoyment out of it now ;)

Wow, you must have really hated the other FF games to declare this one your favourite!!:erm:

Wow, FFXII must have really flown over your head if you think so :p

CactuarKing
01-04-2016, 02:02 PM
I just thought it was a bit m'eh.

Not the worst by a long shot (looking at you XIII) but not the best (X, then VIII)

Fynn
01-04-2016, 02:06 PM
See, X is my least favorite.

I loved that it dared to be different with subtle characters, an involving battle system, and movie-like music. I don't really see it as more Star Wars inspired than other FFs. I just love Ivalice and how the emotions presented by the characters are just much more genuine than the dramatic proclamations everyone has every other game in the series (X and XIII especially). Fran and Balthier are hands down the best FF couple exactly because of this - their body language and the way they communicate without words tells so much more about their feelings for each other than any piece of corny dialogue could.

CactuarKing
01-04-2016, 02:07 PM
See, X is my least favorite.

I loved that it dared to be different with subtle characters, an involving battle system, and movie-like music. I don't really see it as more Star Wars inspired than other FFs. I just love Ivalice and how the emotions presented by the characters are just much more genuine than the dramatic proclamations everyone has every other game in the series (X and XIII especially). Fran and Balthier are hands down the best FF couple exactly because of this - their body language and the way they communicate without words tells so much more about their feelings for each other than any piece of corny dialogue could.

But whilst this may be true of their relationship I just have one word to say. Vaan. possibly the most emotionless and bland hero yet.

Fynn
01-04-2016, 02:12 PM
Who is not the hero and is instead a young boy who is just along for the ride and comes to grow and mature himself through what he observes, learning that revenge is futile and thus inspiring Ashe to give up her quest for revenge, quite possibly preventing her from becoming Ivalice's version of Hitler :monster:

CactuarKing
01-04-2016, 02:17 PM
Whilst I did enjoy XII, it just lacked a certain something. Je ne sais quoi.

Just did not really float my boat as much as X.

Not to say I haven't played it to death and enjoyed aspects of it.

XIII was a time sink and I have the Platinum Trophy, but can still see all the flaws and would not rank it amongst the greats.

Strange how people look at things from different sides and see different things.

For me, Basch was one of the best characters, Balthier a close second, and of course Ashe :love:(aaahhhhhh yeah!!) but none of the others really engaged my attention in the same way.

Fynn
01-04-2016, 02:22 PM
I know what you mean. Heck, I love FFXII but understand how it could be not for everybody. And it goes in all directions really. I mean, did you know there's people, on this very forum, who think FFXIII is... a good game? :eek:

Galuf
01-04-2016, 02:24 PM
I actually really enjoyed this one. Ff12 felt different but in a good way. And i liked the openness of it. Good game. Glad you liked it now maybee.

CactuarKing
01-04-2016, 02:25 PM
I know what you mean. Heck, I love FFXII but understand how it could be not for everybody. And it goes in all directions really. I mean, did you know there's people, on this very forum, who thing FFXIII was... a good game? :eek:

** Runs Away **

Steve
01-04-2016, 11:51 PM
The voices I have always loved them, even when I highly despised this game- though the breathing sounds drive me up the wall. They drive me insane. Basche-' You need to make a choice ' ! Ashe - ' * breathing sounds * ahh ah ah * nods head * Just no. Just stop that. It's like listening to a very annoying tennis match or something. Though it's just such an improvement from Final Fantasy X and beats Final Fantasy XIII with a stick. Yes, Ashe has obnoxious breathing sounds sometimes, but it beats Vanille's very fake and very horrible Australian accent, okay.


Slightly off topic but.... on the subject of Vanille's fake Australian Accent, are you sure? because:


Georgia van Cuylenburg (born 8 March 1987) is an Australian actress and voice actress. Originally from Melbourne, Australia she moved to Los Angeles in 2005 to pursue her career in entertainment.[1] She is best known for voicing Oerba Dia Vanille in the video game Final Fantasy XIII.[2] Her documentary, Baby Let Your Hair Hang Down is about Georgia's diagnosis with Alopecia areata, a type of hair loss condition, in 2007. Since then, she has been wearing various kinds of wigs and has been doing fund raising for research on fighting this disease. In 2010 her condition was in remission and she is wearing her hair in a short brunette pixie cut.

Vanille's voice whilst slightly annoying at times in how high pitched it could get (which I guess is just the natural voice of the girl who played her bear in mind, she's younger than myself and a fair few members of the forums) was the real deal, pure Aussie. The fake Australian accent belonged to Fang who was actually voiced by a Californian in the form of Rachel Robinson, though being guilty of impersonating more than a few aussies in my time and having spent many years living in an area with a surprisingly high Australian population it wasn't the worst accent ever, though yes, as an American doing an Australian Accent you could at times tell that this was definitely the case.

Actually on topic here:

Final Fantasy XII for me is one of the entries in the series that I find hard to make my mind up on. The combat seemed to work ok but reminded me strongly of Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter (which was the weakest of the BoF games imho) and also MMO RPG games such as Final Fantasy XI which it clearly borrowed from (I'd have prefered it to have borrowed from X-2 than XI to be honest, a far superior combat system if you stripped out the stupidity of the "garments" and "dress spheres" and viewed it for what it was, job switching). Though the Gambit system worked really well and smoothly allowed you to control the party in the harder battles. It also did a great job that XIII failed to do in it's implementation of the combat which was take over any character in the party. Battle going Poorly, need some additional healing that Penelo's gambits simply won't cover you for? Switch to Penelo, heal up and let the gambits take care of Basch/whomever you personally chose for your party leader's attacks for a while.

The parts of combat that didn't work for me was stupid stuff like chaining enemies of a certain type to get better loot. It often meant fleeing areas or simply not being able to get higher tier loot. The idea of the Bestiary could have been used to balance this out some (though I did love that the beastiary only fully unlocked on a monster if you killed more than one/was a boss).

The loot system overall however, was amazing. One of my favourite things in a video game to date. A loot drop system that didn't break the early game if you killed everything possible and yet was still rewarding. I recall trying to convince the game development team I worked with at the time to introduce a similar economy to that of XII via a loot system which would help restore the game economy from the horrible imbalance and utter trash that it had become due to the rarity and farming of gems which increased power. It was an uphill struggle but if I were to develop a game in a similar style today, I would utterly insist on this being a huge part of the economy. Similar of note, the Mark system again was best implemented in XII and I thought it was the perfect compliment to the world economy.

I loved the design of the Espers, they were amazingly well done and the back story was really interesting which is more than I can say about some of the summons in other entries of the series, even the game I would often describe as my favourite (FFVIII) had a horrible way of introducing and explaining summons. The story of this war between two pantheons and the Espers being the result of this was intriguing, I'd have liked it to take a more direct part in the game. Sadly it seemed very much like a backdrop only.

You're right about the characters, though if anything I think this was one of the flaws to the game. As they were all pretty bad ass in their own right, or likable, it became very difficult to determine who your party would be, what their equipment would be and their role in general to the team. You found yourself trying to keep up with all characters, turning FFXII in to more of a grind fest than necessary.

The Zodiac Spear was loot/treasure done horribly. I'm not going to lie, I hated it and could never do it without a guide. It was a simple cash cow that told you to buy the official guide book on launch because without that (or some kindly gamers who leaked it on GameFAQS within a day or two) you would never have known how to get that weapon. I also didn't like the mechanic as sometimes, those chests would contain stuff which you actually would need, especially in early game. If you must include something like that, a weapon which is so broken it could imbalance the game, lock it behind a super boss not behind some shitty "you cannot open these 13 chests ever if you want it" mechanic.

World of Ivalice again is amazing, I love FFTA and FFT (though it's very clear FFTA and FFTA2 in particular are the Ivalice of FFXII though FFTA2 came out afterwards if I recall). Ivalice is one of those amazing worlds where FF really should have been able to do more with it. It was great to explore but then you realise you're exploring this tiny little area of a much bigger piece. The only thing I didn't like were the parts where geographically, the places should not have been. Giza Plains for example. I get that the name was used to connect you to the world of Ivalice but you'd surely have known of other locations nearby in FFTA/FFTA2 if you had access to the Giza Plains.

Overall, I can't decide if I think this to be a stronger or weaker title in the series. I know I struggle to finish this game because I get bogged down in the grind fest too much and never actually seem to progress the story. Though I feel I need to one day, find myself a decent emulator (I could repair my PS2 but it's very old and dying it's death of deaths now) and play it through properly.

Ayen
01-05-2016, 12:24 AM
Ashe can make all the breathing sounds she wa--

I mean, yeah. I needed a second take to appreciate this game, too, now it's on my Top Ten List. I liked Vayne as a villain, though, and he won't cut off his hair. His hair is the source of his power! :eek:

Vayne was a slightly better villain than Seymour, but still not great. Mind you, it is less convoluted than "the-baddie-is-an-all-powerful-sorceress-from-the-future-who-has-posessed-the-body-of-different-sorceresses-to-free-a-sorceress-trapped-in-space" situation in VIII (my second fave Final Fantasy BTW)

And as for Ashe and breathing, I concur!!

Vayne was more down to earth, and not wanting his brother to bloody his hands made him feel a lot more human than some of the other FF villains that came before him.

I didn't mind Seymour, but I always considered him a secondary antagonist after Sin.

CactuarKing
01-05-2016, 10:11 AM
You would play second fiddle to a large destructo-whale with the ability to shoot shards of itself and have them turn into monsters though!!

Ayen
01-05-2016, 10:20 PM
You would play second fiddle to a large destructo-whale with the ability to shoot shards of itself and have them turn into monsters though!!

True. I didn't really mean it as a bad thing.

Also, because the thread title keeps reminding me of it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SgjcNwwHwM

maybee
01-06-2016, 01:44 PM
For me, Basch was one of the best characters, Balthier a close second, and of course Ashe :love:(aaahhhhhh yeah!!) but none of the others really engaged my attention in the same way.

Yes ! Team Ashe ! :jess:

And yes, Basch is truly great and truly needs more love from the Final Fantasy fandom.

You didn't love sexy Chewbacca Fran though ?

CactuarKing
01-06-2016, 03:51 PM
Fran was okay. Didn't really grow an emotional attachment to her though. Probably the bunny ears.

Formalhaut
01-09-2016, 05:35 AM
Fran was okay. Didn't really grow an emotional attachment to her though. Probably the bunny ears.

It's not really helped by the lack of much story development, on her part. There's some promising signs in her home village and then... nothing. She's sorta like Lulu from FFX: both don't get much development but serve as the 'tour guide' of the group as they both seem fairly knowledgeable about locations and terms the group stumbles on their way.

Fynn
01-09-2016, 07:59 AM
Fran's real merit are her interactions really. There's so much going on in there that isn't outright stated but is just fine masterfully through the use of body language. You can tell how deeply they care for each other just by looking at them, whether you interpret that as romantic or not (though you'd be wrong if you didn't :p)

Formalhaut
01-09-2016, 08:27 AM
Fran's real merit are her interactions really. There's so much going on in there that isn't outright stated but is just fine masterfully through the use of body language. You can tell how deeply they care for each other just by looking at them, whether you interpret that as romantic or not (though you'd be wrong if you didn't :p)

Fran only really interacts with Balthier, which I agree, is made great by subtlety and the emotions that are unsaid, but I can hardly remember any time she meaningfully communicates with Basch or Penelo.

That's probably the greatest weakness to me. The party just doesn't feel like a party. There's pairings of deep interaction, but there's not really much room for conversation between pairings, like with Fran and Basch, for example. I'm not necessarily saying the group should achieve Persona 4 levels of sugary camaraderie, but I do feel that the group could, you know, be a group.

They do a hell of a lot of walking in the course of the story, and they only communicate in cutscenes. I almost think FFXII would have benefited from party banter as seen in the Dragon Age series, which really flesh out character interaction.

Fynn
01-09-2016, 08:32 AM
Well, I actually kinda like that the composition of this part is different from established RPG party paradigms :gator:

Crop
01-09-2016, 02:13 PM
FFXII is my third favourite FF behind VII and X, and like many people it took a couple of tries for me to enjoy it. I love the world, the characters (with Balthier and Basch being my favourite, and Ashe being the best female character in any FF game imo), and I even enjoy the battle system.

The biggest issues I have with it are the villains (main villain should have been Doctor Cid, not Vayne), and the fact that the game just didn't feel complete. If any game deserved and needed a part 2 it was certainly this and not FFX.

Fynn
01-09-2016, 02:34 PM
FFXII is my third favourite FF behind VII and X, and like many people it took a couple of tries for me to enjoy it. I love the world, the characters (with Balthier and Basch being my favourite, and Ashe being the best female character in any FF game imo), and I even enjoy the battle system.

The biggest issues I have with it are the villains (main villain should have been Doctor Cid, not Vayne), and the fact that the game just didn't feel complete. If any game deserved and needed a part 2 it was certainly this and not FFX.

You do realize there is a sequel

Crop
01-09-2016, 03:54 PM
I do now.

I've never been a handheld gamer or even owned a handheld console so I'm not surprised it flew under my radar. It would have been nice to get a full sequel on the PS2 or 3 though.

Fynn
01-09-2016, 04:03 PM
Eh, uh, it's not really worth it. Not because it's a handheld game, since those are usually pretty rad, but because it's a Motomu Toriyama game. The main story is a rehash of FFX-2.

Raistlin
01-10-2016, 05:41 AM
FFXII is a great game that only gets better with a second playthrough. I'd probably rate it my third favorite FF (behind only FFVII and Tactics). I finally replayed it myself last year, and I just enjoyed it more. My biggest complaints the first time around were the choppy pacing of the story which can be tough to follow when you want to explore for 20 hours before the next cutscene, but knowing it ahead of time allowed me to appreciate it more. And the game does have a great story.



Fran's real merit are her interactions really. There's so much going on in there that isn't outright stated but is just fine masterfully through the use of body language. You can tell how deeply they care for each other just by looking at them, whether you interpret that as romantic or not (though you'd be wrong if you didn't :p)

Fran only really interacts with Balthier, which I agree, is made great by subtlety and the emotions that are unsaid, but I can hardly remember any time she meaningfully communicates with Basch or Penelo.

That's probably the greatest weakness to me. The party just doesn't feel like a party. There's pairings of deep interaction, but there's not really much room for conversation between pairings, like with Fran and Basch, for example. I'm not necessarily saying the group should achieve Persona 4 levels of sugary camaraderie, but I do feel that the group could, you know, be a group.

Yeah, it's like they're real people who don't automatically fall in love with strangers they happen to tag along with. For people who prefer the completely fantastical tropes of typical fantasy RPGs, I (like Fynn) can see how FFXII might not be your bag (and there's nothing wrong with that; Lunar SSSC is about as cliche as you can get, and I love it to death). But I enjoyed and appreciated all the ways FFXII was different.

maybee
01-10-2016, 10:11 AM
The biggest issues I have with it are the villains (main villain should have been Doctor Cid, not Vayne)

SO MUCH YES

Vayne was like a dull version of Seymour and Doc Cid had all of the character and charm and had a Kefka like feel, almost. Basically, bonkers & he loves it.

Vyk
02-13-2016, 08:41 AM
Just started giving this game a third chance myself. About a year ago I played an hour and a half and it didn't do it for me. But otherwise the only real chance I gave it was on release. And I thought I put a good amount into it before getting sick of Vaan

I was very wrong because I don't remember anything past the I'm Captain Basch post. Which for this play through was like seven hours in

And holy crap I didn't think my opinion a game could change so drastically. This game really didn't get a fair chance. I thought the last good Final Fantasy was VII. And I was wrong

So apparently the Captain Basch part completely ruined the game for me originally and made me see Vaan as Tidus in the laughing scene. He's not nearly as intolerable this playthrough. I had heard he's pretty forgettable once you get a full crew, so I wanted to get to that point and see how I could enjoy the game by pretending her doesn't exist. But now it doesn't even matter. He's not the best character buy I don't hate him at all anymore. I don't dislike anyone in this game. Other than Penelo's ridiculous club feet not much of bothering me.

I also originally gave it crap for trying to be Star Wars. And the biggest comparison was to the prequel trilogy. Which itself is not a good association. But by comparison this game did Star Wars better than Star Wars was doing it at the time.

I also originally hated the MMO combat system. But these days you have Dragon Age, Dragons Dogma, Xenoblade, and others with active and low party control combat systems. And you always have the option to take over. Plus you set up your own conditions and feel like a parent or teacher and get to see if what you taught is gonna work and refine it as you go

I also used to feel this game and Nine were very pastel. Light and bland. Colors, music, personalities. But the plot of not pastel. And neither are the personalities

It's good to enjoy a high quality over looked JRPG from a golden age. And there's my peace on the subject

Edit: I'm not going to bother hunting all the typos in this post. Typed out on my phone with swipe while lying in bed and the girlfriend rolling around next to me instantly shaking the bed in perpetual restlessness. Honestly surprised it came out that well. But apologies to those who read it lol

FFNut
02-13-2016, 04:23 PM
I enjoyed this one too, but hated how you moved in the map. It would frustrate me to no end.

Formalhaut
02-13-2016, 07:38 PM
Yeah, it's like they're real people who don't automatically fall in love with strangers they happen to tag along with. For people who prefer the completely fantastical tropes of typical fantasy RPGs, I (like Fynn) can see how FFXII might not be your bag (and there's nothing wrong with that; Lunar SSSC is about as cliche as you can get, and I love it to death). But I enjoyed and appreciated all the ways FFXII was different.

I enjoyed the difference, while pining for some more interaction. You don't have to love your travelling companions to talk to them more. I suppose it only felt more jarring because you go through long stretches without any interaction or cutscenes.