*CENSORED*

[Fynn]

So let's talk censorship.

We've long moved on from the era where having a cross on a gravestone in a game was deemed too scandalous for Western audiences, and when one of Kefka's angel dudes' asses had to be covered up in the final battle, but there are still areas where censorship prevails, and honestly? I'm not too bothered by it.

Seriously, I've seen so many debates recently surrounding Bravely Default and the 3DS release of Dragon Quest VIII where people are boycotting because a character's skimpy outfit is toned down. People are screaming "Censorship is evil! How dare you limit the artist's vision!" Oh please. I know that it's not artistic merits that you were looking for up Jessica's thigh.

I mean, yes, as someone who aspires to be a creator, I can understand when something substantial which really helps emphasize the feel and message of your game gets thrown out it can be frustrating - like the Kefka example, because I don't think that ass was there for fanservice. But really, the skimpy outfits in Bravely Default were there purely for fanservice, which I highly doubt that was meant to be an integral part of the narrative.

And really, I can understand if someone is slightly miffed by it, even though I'm not personally, but if you're going to decry that "Everything Is Ruined Forever" because a chibi girl from a game shows less skin, then I think you have some really messed up prioriities. (Unless it is a purely fanservice game where the censorship would really impede your experience, but those things don't interest me personally, so I'm not referring to them :monster:)

[CactuarKing]

There are different censorship issues too.

It is okay for video games which are 18 rated to display guns and gun violence for example, but nudity/sex are still taboo and a very big no-no!!

Example: GTA 5. I can drive like a maniac killing people in imaginative ways with cars, guns, aeroplanes etc, but all nudity/sex with prostitutes is hinted at and hidden from view.

[Bubba]

Down with censorship!

USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST.

[Fynn]

Just to illustrate how ridiculous the reactions are, here's why people started saying they won't touch Bravely Default and DQVIII 3DS.

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/61392/nintendo_61392.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TOyaVoDGbfA/maxresdefault.jpg

[Bubba]

I still have my copy of Mortal Kombat on the SNES. Nintendo refused to allow blood on the SNES version of the game and hence removed most of the fun of what is a horrible beat-em-up.

They changed their minds for the release of Mortal Kombat 2 and thus begun the long-running issue of censorship in games.

[Crop]

Aside from age ratings, don't censor anything, then people can be free to make their own choices about what they play/watch. Problem solved.

[Mirage]

These days, I feel like censorship of "skimpy outfits" is just a case of someone having a better taste than the character designer.

Like for example when 13 year old Lin in XCX wasn't given a bikini you'd be more likely to see in a porn movie than on an actual beach, like she was given in the Japanese release.

[Skyblade]

I'm sorry, I don't even agree with calling this censorship. If someone had come in and forced them to change it, sure, that's censorship. But they did this on their own.

Someone deciding that they want to give a different product to a different audience isn't censorship, it's a personal business decision that they are absolutely allowed to make.

And before you argue "oh, it's just the localizers doing this, not the artist", bulltrout. The localizers are hired by the artists to make exactly this sort of decision. If the devs had a problem with it, they'd definitely say something, and they have the authority to make their voice heard.

But if that's censorship, let's discuss another example.

There was a book written in Britain with a title and plot device referencing classical alchemy. When it came time to release the book in America, the author thought that Americans wouldn't get the reference, and needed a "cooler" sounding name.

So anytime you get people crying "censorship" and "boycott" at this, ask them why they didn't say anything or boycott Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone for not being Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. And when they try to justify their hypocrisy, ask them: Why is it wrong to censor something because you think another culture is more sexually prudent, but it's right to censor something because you think another culture are morons with no sense of history or heritage.

[Psychotic]

Just to illustrate how ridiculous the reactions are, here's why people started saying they won't touch Bravely Default and DQVIII 3DS.

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/61392/nintendo_61392.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TOyaVoDGbfA/maxresdefault.jpgI for one am relieved that the slutty outfits of harlots have been replaced by something entirely more prim and proper.

[Mirage]

For once, I actually agree with Skyblade.

Every company is free to show us almost anything. It's their choice to aim for a 12+, 16+ or 18+ rating. If they think they really need the additional sales a lower rating might give them, then that's their own faults for not making the rest of the game good enough :D.

I for one am sick of "swimsuit/bikini for everyone" DLC. Can you even find a japanese game without that these days? Not counting From Software.

[Spuuky]

I hate censorship. There's a critical scene in Xenosaga where the entire scene you are watching actually doesn't even make sense, because the "blood" has been removed. The character is directly interacting with the blood! Which is no longer there! It was so offensive.

On the other hand changing the visual design of a character isn't "censorship," it's a design choice, and probably a good one given how bad some of them originally are. I hate having a character show up on screen that makes me actively feel shame at playing a game in the first place.

[Fynn]

I hate censorship. There's a critical scene in Xenosaga where the entire scene you are watching actually doesn't even make sense, because the "blood" has been removed. The character is directly interacting with the blood! Which is no longer there! It was so offensive.

On the other hand changing the visual design of a character isn't "censorship," it's a design choice, and probably a good one given how bad some of them originally are. I hate having a character show up on screen that makes me actively feel shame at playing a game in the first place.

Exactly. The Xenosaga example is actually something that decreases the original piece's artistic value. The other type just reduces the amount of jerkoff material :monster:

[Del Murder]

I think if something sensitive is included in a game to progress the story/characterization or if it is a clear theme of the game then it shouldn't be censored. But if I'm playing an RPG, the armor with the best defense shouldn't be a skimpy bikini or the default outfit for a job shouldn't be the character in their underwear. That makes no sense and looks out of place. As others have said, changing that is more along the lines of correcting poor design decisions than censorship. However, if gratuitous blood and gore (Mortal Kombat) or boobs flopping around everywhere (can't think of an example) are part of the overall theme of the game then I'm fine with those, I just won't play the ones I don't want to see.

[Spuuky]

boobs flopping around everywhere (can't think of an example) are part of the overall theme of the gameDead or Alive

[Fox]

Yeah, I don't really like censorship. We're very lucky that it basically doesn't happen with games in the west.

As Skyblade says; a company choosing to change a product because they fear a backlash is not censorship. Agree or disagree with criticism of making all your characters sex objects, but at the end of the day all it is is criticism. Companies are free to ignore it if they so choose.

The closest thing we do generally get to censorship is companies such as Valve, Sony and Microsoft not allowing certain games onto their platform. Nekopara, for example, couldn't get on Steam unless it toned down on the gratuitous catgirl sex scenes. That's still not quite censorship, as a private business such as Valve are well within their rights to have whatever requirements they like for software on their platform, and you're welcome to buy the uncensored version from other outlets where those requirements are not in place.

[Skyblade]

I hate censorship. There's a critical scene in Xenosaga where the entire scene you are watching actually doesn't even make sense, because the "blood" has been removed. The character is directly interacting with the blood! Which is no longer there! It was so offensive.

On the other hand changing the visual design of a character isn't "censorship," it's a design choice, and probably a good one given how bad some of them originally are. I hate having a character show up on screen that makes me actively feel shame at playing a game in the first place.

Exactly. The Xenosaga example is actually something that decreases the original piece's artistic value. The other type just reduces the amount of jerkoff material :monster:

Hilariously enough, the unwillingness to state this head on just proves the "censorship" right.

Think about it. If the person complaining, who is only going to be watched by a few hundred people, and who only has their own personal and practically nonexistent reputation to protect, if that person is afraid to just come out and say "I like looking at scantily clad ladies while I play games", and has to hide behind the "censorship" nonsense, then clearly the localizers, with the reputation of their entire company, were right to hide those things as well. If an internet troll is unwilling to take that step, why should a multi-billion dollar company?

[Mirage]

I'd be fine if such games never left Japan in the first place, tbh!

[Skyblade]

I'd be fine if such games never left Japan in the first place, tbh!

But think of the unique culture you're missing the chance to experience! [/sarcasm]

[Mirage]

Well, it is certainly... unique.

[Spuuky]

Don't worry, the world is globally interconnected enough that you can still experience it even if they stopped shipping them out.

[Karifean]

For me the most interesting question in this regard is not just whether or not to have censored versions of games - IMO that's just changing your target audience - but whether or not it's a good idea to release the uncensored version in the same areas as well.

I get the objection that the simple fact that an uncensored (let's say 18+) version of the game exists will taint the image of the censored version as well. Especially since the VN world is chock full of 18+ games with amazing storylines. If you get attached to a galge and then find out there's a 'porn version' of it... it can really cause a disconnect. And when that happens, it kinda undermines the whole idea of having a censored alternative.

But I personally welcome having the choice.

[Vyk]

Agreed on them being poor design choices to begin with. And I get the impression it's not even a cultural thing. It's more that pervs have taken over in that culture. And Miyazaki has even gotten disheartened over it. So I know it's not just "oh all Japanese people are fine with gratuitous boobage for no reason, it's their culture". It may be becoming their culture, sadly. But its not everyone. And it's sad to define them that way

[Ayen]

I hate censorship. There's a critical scene in Xenosaga where the entire scene you are watching actually doesn't even make sense, because the "blood" has been removed. The character is directly interacting with the blood! Which is no longer there! It was so offensive.

On the other hand changing the visual design of a character isn't "censorship," it's a design choice, and probably a good one given how bad some of them originally are. I hate having a character show up on screen that makes me actively feel shame at playing a game in the first place.

Exactly. The Xenosaga example is actually something that decreases the original piece's artistic value. The other type just reduces the amount of jerkoff material :monster:

Hilariously enough, the unwillingness to state this head on just proves the "censorship" right.

Think about it. If the person complaining, who is only going to be watched by a few hundred people, and who only has their own personal and practically nonexistent reputation to protect, if that person is afraid to just come out and say "I like looking at scantily clad ladies while I play games", and has to hide behind the "censorship" nonsense, then clearly the localizers, with the reputation of their entire company, were right to hide those things as well. If an internet troll is unwilling to take that step, why should a multi-billion dollar company?

Pretty much. They don't even have to look far to find scantily clad ladies, games or not.

The older designs were trout, and designers changing their own stuff isn't censorship, and I question their understanding of how censorship works if they claim it to be.

[Madame Adequate]

i wanan fuck the animes