Whatever happened to romance in our Final Fantasy games?

[Loony BoB]

FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX. Many would argue that makes up the "prime" of Final Fantasy. What do they all have? Romance. What the hell happened to that? I mean, I know we had Serah and Snow, but it was massively downplayed. Do you think Final Fantasy has spent too much time away from the L word? Do you think that the series might have even suffered because of it? I know we don't need love shoved in our faces throughout the games, but to have a love interest in a game allows for a lot more feeling and, subsequently, a fonder attachment for many gamers out there. I don't mind every other game skipping the love factor, but XI, XII, XIII, XIV and now XV? Ehhhhhh. Did the writers get sick of their partners or something?

[FFNut]

What I loved in VI was the fact that Locke was always in the middle of a love starved Terra who was supposed to be the love interest early, and Celes who they decided was their favorite and swapped into the love interest. It really helped develop those three characters early in the story.

[Fynn]

We've just grown out of coming-of-age romances. Honestly, it's for the best. I can't remember a decent romantic plot younger than Xenogears. Of course, FFXII had the best couple in a game in the form of Fran and Balthier, but they didn't have a romance subplot.

[Jinx]

the L word

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[Fynn]

Oh we had lesbians in XIII

[Loony BoB]

I disagree that it's "for the best" - Just because some older fans have grown up doesn't mean newer fans should be ignored, and from a chat with a fellow older FF fan I had yesterday that inspired this thread, we both want romance back in our Final Fantasy. And I mean more than Snow/Serah, too - I mean romance that blossoms within the game. With Fang/Vanille and Balthier/Fran, both cases are unproven to my knowledge that there was even any romantic relationship whatsoever.

[Fynn]

Fran and Balthier was the most blatant thing in existence. They had more chemistry going on than Tidus and Yuna could ever dream of. It's a nicely done, subtle relationship which works because of how much you can see they rely on each other just through their body language. Watch the Pharos scene, or the one in Salikawood where Fran talks about Balthier's eyes, or that line Balthier says about Fran disliking being tied up - come on!

It's more than just that, though. As a global culture, we are steadily moving away from coming of age romances. Heck, even Disney movies, which practically invented the idea, are also stepping away from it with Frozen deconstructing that idea and focusing on sisterly love.

We need love in games, yes, but not boring old predictable coming of age romances. Radiant Historia is one good example of a game that is at its core about the Four Loves, with only a little romantic subplot for the main character, only to complete that model. I'd prefer for FF to just move on and try to do other kinds of stories rather than shoving a forced romance down our throats again.

I think it was mostly Sakaguchi responsible for that, I think, if you think about it. We stopped having those once he left, and the Last Story focuses on a terrible, overdone romance pot between two bland, hollow husks so devoid of personality their relationship should for all intents and purposes have created some sort of black hole.

I just think we're done. I think coming-of-age romances are dead and can't be interesting anymore without some big twist, or just without being so in-your-face about it like FFX or The Last Story.

[Galuf]

while i personally dont like the romancey parts ( damn you Ragnarok and Macalania woods) i can see why its there, i mean if your on a long ass journey or adventure with a group i suppose its inevitable that someone will get the feels for another.

but i guess its preference... :shrug:

[Loony BoB]

Fran and Balthier was the most blatant thing in existence. They had more chemistry going on than Tidus and Yuna could ever dream of. It's a nicely done, subtle relationship which works because of how much you can see they rely on each other just through their body language. Watch the Pharos scene, or the one in Salikawood where Fran talks about Balthier's eyes, or that line Balthier says about Fran disliking being tied up - come on!
I don't recall the part about the eyes, but I could definitely have made the statement about "being tied up" about any number of my friends. Balthier says things like that, it's just part of his charm. I agree they were incredibly close but saying that "Fran talked about his eyes, they must be in love" is like saying "Fran touched her boob, they must be in love". Heaven forbid they might... hug! xD

It doesn't have to be hugely in your face or coming of age, but I think romance has an important place in stories. James Bond never goes without it, Game of Thrones is littered with it, hell, damned near every media I can think of is overflowing with it - with the exception of video games. Games like VII, VIII and X - like them or not - were massive. Huge. Each of them had a lot to talk about when it came to love. Since FF moved away from love, the popularity has dropped dramatically. A lot of things have certainly changed in that period of time, but it remains that people grasp at the tiniest bit of potential romance they can find in these games (Fran/Vanille being a notable example, let alone all the shipping of Hope/Snow/Lighting/Fang that goes on). Perhaps the player fanbase that appreciates a good romance in their story has forgotten about Final Fantasy for a reason.

Again, it doesn't have to be the primary plot. I wouldn't say that FFVII or FFIX, for example, were loaded on love. And Lulu/Wakka were done very subtly themselves. I just feel to just remove romance involving the central characters is to make them more like the playable Elder Scrolls characters - that little bit more dull and lifeless. Love isn't everything, no, but to throw it out altogether for something like seven or eight games in a row... eh. They've forgotten what made FF games popular - it was never the world plots.

[Fynn]

When you say love, you mean romance, and that's a big difference, because love is still there and it's very important. Love drives Vayne to shield Larsa from the darker elements of politics and not let him dirty his hands what he thinks needs to be done, and love motivates Lightning to fight. First it's the love for her sister, then it's the love for her comrades and the world.

And here's the scenes. Now tell me these aren't the exchanges made by a couple.

Skip to 3:50 here

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And this one, from around 1:20

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And then there's this official artwork by Akihiko Yoshida that is shown in the credits.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/bb3feebb2cc63aaae1d0bdd5d17bce6f/tumblr_mifx8fMCiP1ri3c6eo1_500.jpg


Fran and Balthier is there. It is official. It is canon. And it is the best couple in FF

[Rin Heartilly]

I love having romance in my games, I dunno why but I do, but only when its done well or well enough for me to ship it anyway :shifty: As Fynn said, Fran and Balthier really are the best example, they gave me a married vibe, like a couple that's been together forever and they know absolutely everything about each other, I really liked that. Did Ashe get married in XII? I cant even remember, but FranxBalthier definitely the OTP for XII (sorry penelo and vaan).

Well apparently in the upcoming XV Noctis is betrothed to Luna (someone correct me on this) buuut from what I've seen so far, it looks like more bromance will be happening instead.....which I don't really mind tbh xD

[Wolf Kanno]

To be honest, I never felt like Square did romance really well, at least when it's front and center to the plot. Square does great love triangles because it actually has tension but their straightforward love stories are pretty bland and formulaic which is why I'm happy they've kind of been fazed out of the series.

I'll take Cecil/Kain/Rosa over Squall and Rinoa, Locke/Celes/Rachel over Zidane and Garnet, and Cloud/Tifa/ Aerith over Yuna and Tidus. The love triangles actually have real conflict which are surprisingly unique to each game despite all being the same type of love story; as opposed to the more straight "boy meets girl" examples from VIII-X where the main conflict is almost always "duty before self" in all three cases. It's bland and while their is certainly some interesting chemistry or dynamics in those relationships, they have nothing to do with the story as a whole so they ultimately feel tacked on. I'd rather see Square explore different modes of love than the simple formulaic romance of Hollywood. Why do we never see love stories about re-connection as opposed to new love? Where's my gay option? What about a real forbidden love?

The reason why I feel SE has dropped this angle is because other franchises have tackled it in better ways' or they continue the usual Hollywood Love Story formula which EVERYONE uses despite most people just rolling their eyes and moving on. I'm not opposed to romance in my games but we can do more than a story about the hero making lovey-dovey to the heroine with only the most minor of conflicts in the way.

[Fynn]

To be honest, I never felt like Square did romance really well, at least when it's front and center to the plot. Square does great love triangles because it actually has tension but their straightforward love stories are pretty bland and formulaic which is why I'm happy they've kind of been fazed out of the series.

I'll take Cecil/Kain/Rosa over Squall and Rinoa, Locke/Celes/Rachel over Zidane and Garnet, and Cloud/Tifa/ Aerith over Yuna and Tidus. The love triangles actually have real conflict which are surprisingly unique to each game despite all being the same type of love story; as opposed to the more straight "boy meets girl" examples from VIII-X where the main conflict is almost always "duty before self" in all three cases. It's bland and while their is certainly some interesting chemistry or dynamics in those relationships, they have nothing to do with the story as a whole so they ultimately feel tacked on. I'd rather see Square explore different modes of love than the simple formulaic romance of Hollywood. Why do we never see love stories about re-connection as opposed to new love? Where's my gay option? What about a real forbidden love?

The reason why I feel SE has dropped this angle is because other franchises have tackled it in better ways' or they continue the usual Hollywood Love Story formula which EVERYONE uses despite most people just rolling their eyes and moving on. I'm not opposed to romance in my games but we can do more than a story about the hero making lovey-dovey to the heroine with only the most minor of conflicts in the way.

Oh yes, please! Where my gay options and old flames at?

But seriously, this really hit the nail on its head. The romances in VIII, IX and X were really identical in that regard, and so was the Last Story's for that matter. Until they learn how to utilize romance effectively, I'm not really that eager to see them repeat that same formula over and over

[Formalhaut]

I would happily take a gay option. Or, better yet, explore an existing relationship, maybe between two older people?

[Mirage]

If there's one thing I haven't missed, it's romance in JRPGs.

[Ayen]

Well apparently in the upcoming XV Noctis is betrothed to Luna (someone correct me on this) buuut from what I've seen so far, it looks like more bromance will be happening instead.....which I don't really mind tbh xD

He's trying to enjoy his last moments of freedom before his life is over forever.

[Mr. Carnelian]

Oh we had lesbians in XIII

Yes. Fang and Vanille clearly loved each other. If it wasn't made clear enough in XIII, in Lightning Returns there's this bit where they both think they're about to die, and Fang wraps her arms around Vanille and says "Death won't keep us apart". That's not the kind of thing you say to your best friend or a sister figure. That's the kind of thing you say to your soulmate.

For me, that was the most romantic moment I've yet come across in Final Fantasy. So, I disagree: modern Final Fantasy CAN do romance.

[Vyk]

I'm with Wolf and Fynn. But I give JRPGs shit for being predictable and formulaic in other ways too. Tired of Coming of Age anything. Including romance. I'd be interested to see an awkward adult character stumble into some unexpected love. X and XII had adults with pre-established love. I would have probably liked X tiny bit more of Wakka and Lulu started liking each other on the journey rather than already being established and writers taking the easy route so they didn't have to work on it

[Spuuky]

I would definitely not say that romance was any more central to FFIV or FFVI than to FFXIII.

And I wouldn't count FFXI or FFXIV as even being the same kind of game. And FFXV isn't out yet. I don't know, man. If what you are longing for is more Tidus/Yuna or Squall/Rinoa or whatever, I will have to pass.

[Bubba]

It would be a great twist in FFXV if Noctis was betrothed to Luna, but actually ended up falling in love with one of his male friends. His feelings could gradually grow subtly throughout the course of the game.

It would be great to have an openly gay main protagonist but I'm pretty sure Square Enix would never do this, sadly.

[Fynn]

I'd like them to do this, just not with Noctis.

Prompto/Gladio though? Please make it happen!!!!

[Wolf Kanno]

The interesting thing about Noctis and Luna's relationship is that the director has described it being more "formal" than romantic. In other words, they're betrothal is most likely political in nature, o that's an interesting angle to take since both FFX and XII kind of skirted the issue.