BioWare vs. Bethesda

[Ayen]

Do you prefer BioWare games or Bethesda games, and why?

I prefer BioWare games because I just like their take on RPGs better. Gameplay, story, and characters. My favorite games from them are the KoTOR and Mass Effect series, and what I played of Dragon Age 2. Still need to play Origins and Baldur's Gate.

Discuss.

[FFNut]

It's hard to compare the two. I've played so many great games from both, and many buggy ones from both. If I was forced to choose I'd most likely choose Bethesda. There is no game like Morrowind that is as old and still as good as it is.

Loved BioWare for Dragon Age Origins and 2, but I hated Mass Effect. Couldn't barley get through it.

Mass Effect is the games which tip the scales to Bethesda.

[Spuuky]

Bethesda has made one great game, some okay games, and some bad games.

Bioware has made several great games, some good games, and some okay games.

[Ayen]

It's hard to compare the two. I've played so many great games from both, and many buggy ones from both. If I was forced to choose I'd most likely choose Bethesda. There is no game like Morrowind that is as old and still as good as it is.

Loved BioWare for Dragon Age Origins and 2, but I hated Mass Effect. Couldn't barley get through it.

Mass Effect is the games which tip the scales to Bethesda.

Kind of amusing to me, since Mass Effect is what tip the scales for me, too, just in favor of BioWare. I can understand not enjoying it. My brother tried playing those and couldn't get into it. Not as much as Dragon Age, anyway.

I appreciate what Bethesda brings to the table for the genre because I like variety and don't want all my games to play the same, but I just never been able to get into their RPGs that much. I'd play The Elder Scrolls and Fallout for a little while and get bored of them before long.

[Del Murder]

I could not really get into Bethesda's worlds. I loved the ME trilogy and Dragon Age Inquisition is maybe my favorite game of the last 10 years. Bioware by a long shot.

[Galuf]

ive only played Mass effect series for Bioware.

ive played FO3 NV 4 and TES oblivion and skyrim.


however ME Is in my top 5 games of all time (the series) so yep definatly Bioware.

ssssspaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaceeeeeee

[Mr. Carnelian]

One of my favourite things to see in an RPG are well-drawn and interesting characters. Bioware is good at this. Bethesda, on the other hand... I can't think of a single Bethesda character I give two hoots about.

Bioware!

[Pike]

I feel like this is comparing apples and oranges, really. Bioware is more about the characters and Bethesda is more about the world and the world's lore.

[Mr. Carnelian]

I feel like this is comparing apples and oranges, really. Bioware is more about the characters and Bethesda is more about the world and the world's lore.

That's true, but I really think that Bioware have broken Bethesda's lead in regard to their world-building. If you look at Inquisition, it's got a pretty massive game world, and they're really digging into the world's background lore in the Dragon Age series as a whole. So, if Bioware can offer better characters AND a world to match the complexity of Bethesda's, what does Bethesda have to offer?

[Slothy]

Let's see, I've enjoyed a few Bethesda games and at least one was well written. I've enjoyed playing one Bioware game but none of the ones I've played were well written.

Choice seems pretty obvious here.

[Freya]

BioWare has better story structure and characters. Bethesda has nice large worlds and overall story but it pales in comparison with biowares storytelling.

[FFNut]

It's hard to compare the two. I've played so many great games from both, and many buggy ones from both. If I was forced to choose I'd most likely choose Bethesda. There is no game like Morrowind that is as old and still as good as it is.

Loved BioWare for Dragon Age Origins and 2, but I hated Mass Effect. Couldn't barley get through it.

Mass Effect is the games which tip the scales to Bethesda.

Kind of amusing to me, since Mass Effect is what tip the scales for me, too, just in favor of BioWare. I can understand not enjoying it. My brother tried playing those and couldn't get into it. Not as much as Dragon Age, anyway.

I appreciate what Bethesda brings to the table for the genre because I like variety and don't want all my games to play the same, but I just never been able to get into their RPGs that much. I'd play The Elder Scrolls and Fallout for a little while and get bored of them before long.

Live never made Mass Effect hate a big deal due to how many people enjoy it. However the whole Space theme for me doesn't do it for me. I've watched all the Star Wars shows but can't really tell you much about them.

Star Trek I watched the first generation but no more.

Didnt enjoy any space games either. I guess it space that just isn't my thing which kinda sucks because I know how interesting it could be with so much stuff out there.

[Vyk]

Yeah.. BioWare has made much more compelling characters and stories, done by what appear to be true legitimate writers, with fast and/or intense gameplay. Bethesda games have their place as some of the best and most interesting time wasters if you want to just doof around in a large world for six hours and you don't like using Rockstar games for that purpose instead. I've put by far way more time into Bethesda games. But the more memorable experiences for me have come from BioWare

[Pike]

what does Bethesda have to offer?

my favorite video game of all time.

[Ayen]

Huh, for some reason I thought there were more Bethesda fans on here. This is more one sided than the SNES/Genesis poll.

[Pumpkin]

So I've played three Bethesda games and liked two of them, one of them a lot, and the third has been pretty meh so far. I played one BioWare game and it was excellent

So one has two strong likes and one meh and the second has one excellent. I don't know who to vote for

[Pike]

Huh, for some reason I thought there were more Bethesda fans on here. This is more one sided than the SNES/Genesis poll.

I think most of the Bethesda fans here (myself included) recognize that they have some serious flaws

[Del Murder]

Huh, for some reason I thought there were more Bethesda fans on here. This is more one sided than the SNES/Genesis poll.
Same here. The Skyrim and Fallout 4 threads have gotten way more posts than any Dragon Age thread. And it was the people on this site that caused me to try New Vegas (which I did not enjoy). But ME is very popular here and I think the ME 2 & 3 threads had a lot of posts iirc.

[Formalhaut]

This is BioWare all day. I mean, sure, they are different kettles of fish, but they're not so hard to compare. It isn't as if you're comparing Nintendo with the myriad Call of Duty developers.

BioWare is arguably my favourite company. With Dragon Age, you get fantastic character-building, together with an increasingly developed world (it gets fleshed out more and more with each instalment). In Inquisition in particular, you feel part of a world that stretches beyond where you can play, while not losing out on the rich 1-to-1 conversations. They do drop the ball slightly with the side-quests in Inquisition (half of them basically amount to reading letters), but every other quest is well-written and have lasting consequences.

I haven't played any Bethesda games, but from what Mr. Carny and others tell me, they probably aren't for me.

[Fynn]

Baldur's Gate
Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale

Yeah, Bioware all the way (though this is old Bioware, so it's different, haven't played any new Bioware games yet)

Bethesda gave us Morrowind which was nice but in made me nauseous :(

[Formalhaut]

Baldur's Gate
Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale

Yeah, Bioware all the way (though this is old Bioware, so it's different, haven't played any new Bioware games yet)

Bethesda gave us Morrowind which was nice but in made me nauseous :(

Nauseous?

Anyway, you really should give new BioWare a go, Fynn. Games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect are fantastic (I prefer Dragon Age, personally).

Another thing, I like how inclusive BioWare is being in their more recent games. Inquisition gave us the first Trans person I've known in video games, and he was rather well-written as well. Add to that the affirmation of alternative sexualities, and compared to other developers, I like BioWare's commitment to diversity.

[Fynn]

Once I have time for more games ourside my backlog, sure

There was something about the camera movement that just made me sick whenever I played it

And when will you give old Bioware a shot, eh? :p

[Formalhaut]

And when will you give old Bioware a shot, eh? :p



Once I have time for more games outside my backlog, sure

[Fynn]

Touche

[Madame Adequate]

BW are very very good at what they do, and have made several games that quite genuinely belong in the canon of "greatest in the genre", such as BG2, ME, KOToR, and DAO.

They've also made some games widely regarded as mediocre (Jade Empire) or flawed in some significant manner (DA2), even though I personally like those a great deal. Overall though, they're an extremely good dev company and their hit rate is fairly impressive.

Bethesda on the other hand made Morrowind, which means that unless you're pitting them against either Firaxis (For making SMAC) or Ion Storm (for Deus Ex), Bethesda wins the "Best developer" contest without question. Always. Against anyone. Not even Oblivion and Fallout 3 are enough to change that.

[Pike]

Yeah I guess that's my thing. Bioware has the consistently better games, like, I'm not knocking them at all. Stuff like BG2, KotOR, DA:O, etc. is very VERY good.

But... I rate Morrowind higher than all those games combined, because that's just how good Morrowind is. So I gotta rate Bethesda higher. :nod:

[Formalhaut]

Can one game really make or break a developer? I don't mean to belittle Morrowind; I've never played it, but I know it is said to be amazing. But being known for one fantastically good game puts you in danger of being a one-trick pony, surely? I mean, Morrowind is 2002, right?

I suppose I value consistency, then. :monster:

[Pike]

Yeah, that comes down to personal preference. For me Morrowind is very important to me, like not just as one of my all-time favorite games but also for communities it introduced me to, friendships I made, that sort of thing. I don't think I can turn my back on that :(

Also Skyrim was super good.

[Formalhaut]

Yeah, that comes down to personal preference. For me Morrowind is very important to me, like not just as one of my all-time favorite games but also for communities it introduced me to, friendships I made, that sort of thing. I don't think I can turn my back on that :(

Also Skyrim was super good.

Ah, forgive me, I did not think about the experience of playing a game, and of forging bonds and friendships through them.

I can think of no better reason to like a game than the friendships gained through playing them!

[Slothy]

You know, if you're going to compare the two anyway i think it's important to point out that there are no fewer than three developers using the Bioware name last i checked and only one of them is responsible for the games everyone seems to talk about being awesome sauce. And i don't even know how many people influential in those games are still there so that might not even be technically true anymore for all I know. Bioware are more of a brand these days, or at least EA wants it to be.

I still stand by my assertion though that anyone criticizing Bethesda's writing while praising Bioware's might as well be an alien to me. The Bioware games I've played were at best competently written versions of pretty mediocre stories and characters. So if I was going to give credit to one of them for their writing, at least Bethesda has the ability to write some decent lore and world build.

[Spuuky]

I see no reason to believe that Bethesda has any idea what was great about Morrowind or even the faintest shadow of a suggestion in any modern game they've made that they could reproduce it.

[Formalhaut]

I still stand by my assertion though that anyone criticizing Bethesda's writing while praising Bioware's might as well be an alien to me. The Bioware games I've played were at best competently written versions of pretty mediocre stories and characters. So if I was going to give credit to one of them for their writing, at least Bethesda has the ability to write some decent lore and world build.

For me, decent lore and world building should be married with rich character development. Without one or the other, the game becomes jarring with story-telling.

A game with fantastic world-building but questionable character development becomes somewhat hollow; a great world, but relatively empty with dialogue or development. On the other hand, fantastic character development with a poor world-building leaves you with stringing together a series of moments, without much of a big picture.

Dragon Age, for me, combines both well. There's a great lore in the world, some of it cliché, but for the most part even the clichéd elements are well written with plenty of mystery. The characters are great, fleshed out, and there's several moments of humour.

Mass Effect has these as well, but I've always felt more connected to the world of Thedas.

[Pumpkin]

I got Dragon Age Origins today DUN DUN DUN

[Formalhaut]

I got Dragon Age Origins today DUN DUN DUN

I hope you enjoy! Dragon Age: Origins is still many people's favourite in the series, funnily enough. While I tend to disagree, it is still a very good game. It has aged somewhat over the years, and the armour designs vary from decent to disgusting, but it is a great game with a good, if formulaic, story structure.

Just one tip: don't choose a warrior for your character. You're practically swimming in warriors by the end of the game, and you have only two rogue and two mage companions, maximum. Whereas at maximum you have five​ warriors.

[Spuuky]

Just one tip: don't choose a warrior for your character. You're practically swimming in warriors by the end of the game, and you have only two rogue and two mage companions, maximum. Whereas at maximum you have five​ warriors.I hope you aren't implying that there's a problem with my party of Warrior Cousland, Dog, Sten, and Shale has some kind of problem.

[Madame Adequate]

Yeah you're not playing Warrior Aeducan.

[Pike]

Honestly though, I've been defending Bethesda but they aren't even my favorite dev. My favorite dev is Blizzard because I'm a loser and my obsession with Starcraft, Warcraft, and Diablo knows no bounds. In second place is probably... Paradox? Firaxis is up there somewhere.

As for DA:O. My party generally consists of as many Cute Boys™ as I can find, because I'm shallow. Meaning Cute Male Warden, Alistair, Zevran, and then whoever else wants to tag along.

[Madame Adequate]

whoever else wants to tag along.

weird way to spell Barkspawn but okay

[Formalhaut]

I went with a Rogue Dual Dagger Female Cousland, because I'm boring and tend to pick human. :p

My ideal 'get stuff done' party pretty much always had Alistair (who I romanced and became Queen with), a Mage and usually a second ranged character, typically Leliana or the other Mage. I was playing on Casual though, so party composition wasn't so important and I brought along whoever was best for approval or banter. Zevran didn't get much of a look-in though, due to the double-up of roles.

[Bolivar]

Bioware's games aren't for me while I enjoy Bethesda's quite a lot.

[Mirage]

I don't really find most bethesda games super amazing

but i really love me1 and 2, and dao


think i'm gonna go with biowarez

[Forsaken Lover]

My first WRPG experience was late 2014...maybe Nvember. It was Dragon Age Origins. I then played DA2. I then moved onto the Mass Effect Trilogy. From there I believe it was KOTOR 1 and 2. Finally I moved over and played Fallout 3, New Vegas, Morrowind and Skyrim.

The peculiar thing is...even though I invested hours upon hours into the TES games, and had lots of fun, I never finished either. For Morrowind it was part the gameplay getting stale and part I screwed up the quests by killing an Ashlander. It wasn't my fault! I was stuck on a table or something in a tent and hadn't saved in forever and I was jamming every button I could to get off and I punched some random person. This screwed over the MQ because I couldn't get all the tribes to agree I was the...whatever .Navarim or something like that. For Skyrim I just had invested 150+ hours. I was done.

The odd thing here is I love TES lore. Like, a lot. As in, I spent much of my Morrowind and Skyrim runs just reading books I found. I pretty much ignore the DA Codexes. I glance at them from time to time but that's about it. The fact is, a BW story is so much more..."involving" than a Bethesda one that the lore is kind of the real meat of a TES game's story. The lore in DA just gets in the way. I want to talk to Zevran or Merrill or Cass, not waste time learning about the Ages.

Both BioWare and Bethesda take vastly different approaches to your PC's as well. A person I know once likened roleplaying in a Betheda game to playing make believe with a doll house. It's all in your head, really. You are offered very little substantive characterization in the form of dialogue or the like. With BW though, huge emphasis is put on dialogue trees and now their patented dialogue wheel. There's very little ways to express yourself in a Bethesda game when compared to BioWare.

Then again, BW can be pretty bad at this. I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3 and your crappy forced characterization of Shepard.

In terms of gameplay, it varies. I hated the battle system in Inquisition, was meh about the one in Origins and liked 2's. With Mass Effect, the battle system only got better each game. Also BioWare games are way harder in my experience. I died infinitely more in Mass Effect than I ever did in Fallout 3 or Skyrim and that was on Casual whereas I played the Bethesda games on Normal or above. Granted, ME3 Casual was TOO esy so I did switch up to Normal there.

So which series has better writing? It be unfair to say Bethesda can't write good characters. People love Dagoth Ur for a reason. I love the Skyrim Dark Brotherhood for a reason. I've also heard good things about some of the Oblivion guilds. There's also an NPC in Fallout 3 that I adore called Bittercup. I named my current Hawke after her. And while FO3's companions had minimal characterization, Clover was interesting and you can kind of see an "evolution" of her character in FO4's Cait, who I love.

But it's clear that isn't where Bethesda's focus lies. It's a secondary concern to building a big world full of lore and info. Are they better worldbuilders than BioWare? I dunno. Just because I don't read the Codexes doesn't mean I don't care. I think the Qunari are possibly the most fascinating faction I've seen in an RPG.

It's important to note however BW is not much better at main plots than Bethesda. BioWare is all about Generic Forces of Evil Threatens Us All. The one time they tried something different, Dragon Age II, they got endless trout for it so you can trust they won't try that again any time soon. I suspect DA4 will start off about Tevinter, maybe trying to reform it into something less awful, but devolve into a Save the World story after a while.

So...who do I like more? Well Mass Effect 2 is possibly the greatest video game I've ever played. However, I love playing Skyrim and Fallout 3. It really is apples and oranges.

[Spuuky]

But no one's complaint about DA2 is that the story is "different." They got endless shit about DA2 because of all the recycled zones (aka the One Cave, with different paths cordoned off), and removal of meaningful tactics from combat.

[escobert]

Bethesda. I'm one of the few people on here who thoroughly enjoy playing Oblivion and FO3.

[Madame Adequate]

Yeah the story is actually quite good, in that it has a tightly plotted arc, things all tie together, and it's actually trying to do and say something interesting that is not just "heroes save the world, bad guys get mad, then killed". It's quite remarkable in that for all the Champion does, whether they have any meaningful effect on the world is kind of in doubt.

However, the game was tiny and felt it, as Spuuky says the problems with repeated dungeons/caves are massive. The tactics were also downgraded a good deal from Origins, but personally I still found the combat to be quite a lot of fun. Unlike Inquisition.

Boy I sure do love holding attack for 4 minutes to kill yet another damage sponge! Ended up turning the difficulty down over and over with that game because it's possibly the worst instance of "how to make a fight harder? give them more hp" I have ever seen. The fights were not a bit more difficult (The trial that adds random skills and can rank up enemies is far more effective at that) except inasmuch as it took patience to finish them. Makes DA2 look like god damn Command: MANO when it comes to tactics.

[Laddy]

Obsidian.

[Forsaken Lover]

But no one's complaint about DA2 is that the story is "different." They got endless trout about DA2 because of all the recycled zones (aka the One Cave, with different paths cordoned off), and removal of meaningful tactics from combat.

Yeah the story is actually quite good, in that it has a tightly plotted arc, things all tie together, and it's actually trying to do and say something interesting that is not just "heroes save the world, bad guys get mad, then killed". It's quite remarkable in that for all the Champion does, whether they have any meaningful effect on the world is kind of in doubt.

However, the game was tiny and felt it, as Spuuky says the problems with repeated dungeons/caves are massive. The tactics were also downgraded a good deal from Origins, but personally I still found the combat to be quite a lot of fun. Unlike Inquisition.

Boy I sure do love holding attack for 4 minutes to kill yet another damage sponge! Ended up turning the difficulty down over and over with that game because it's possibly the worst instance of "how to make a fight harder? give them more hp" I have ever seen. The fights were not a bit more difficult (The trial that adds random skills and can rank up enemies is far more effective at that) except inasmuch as it took patience to finish them. Makes DA2 look like god damn Command: MANO when it comes to tactics.

Oh there are plenty of people who think everything about DA2 is garbage. I heard more complaints about the writing than I did the combat for the longest time. One of the writers at BW, a lady named Jennifer Hepler, got death threats and a huge portion of BW's online fanbase started calling her Hamburger Helper because they felt she was a fat, talentless pig.

I was not a BioWare fan back in 2010 or 2011 and I'm grateful. Being in the company of such people is nauseating to contemplate.

And Anders isn't the only one people hate. I've heard plenty of shit said about every companion except maybe Varric and Aveline. Carver's too angry, Bethany's too bland, Fenris is too angsty, Isabela is an insulting stereotype, etc.. Nevermind Isabela is just a new Zevran for all intents and purposes. But because Zev was a man whore and not just a whore, he gets a pass, I guess.

Anyway, I like Dragon Age II. I'm currently doing my fourth run. But while the enmity has thankfully died down, it's still there.

[Del Murder]

However, the game was tiny and felt it, as Spuuky says the problems with repeated dungeons/caves are massive. The tactics were also downgraded a good deal from Origins, but personally I still found the combat to be quite a lot of fun. Unlike Inquisition.

Boy I sure do love holding attack for 4 minutes to kill yet another damage sponge! Ended up turning the difficulty down over and over with that game because it's possibly the worst instance of "how to make a fight harder? give them more hp" I have ever seen. The fights were not a bit more difficult (The trial that adds random skills and can rank up enemies is far more effective at that) except inasmuch as it took patience to finish them. Makes DA2 look like god damn Command: MANO when it comes to tactics.
I like the combat in Inquisition, but the combat in DA games was never that groundbreaking. I'll take 'hold attack to kill' over 'mash attack to kill' any day. And even though DAI has the 'give more HP' issue, DA2 had the 'add more waves of enemies' issue which I like less. I'd rather fight a big thing with a ton of HP where my progress is clear than countless waves of the same enemy type where sometimes I have to search around to just to find the end of it.

It probably also depends a lot on the class you play. In DAI I'm a Knight Enchanter Mage and I can attack from afar with a staff, set a fire mine to blow up a group of enemies, let loose a barrage of attacks to build a charge then run in and whack it with my energy sword, turn invisible and reappear inside an enemy to knock it senseless, create barriers to keep me and the party safe, etc. It's all very easy but I like the variety. Compared to DA2 where I was a Rogue and pretty much every battle was run to enemy, mash attack, use Backstab whenever it is ready and random other vanilla skills when it's not. The only variety was when there were clumps of enemies and I could throw that potion bomb thing in to stun them. That was fun.

[Quindiana Jones]

I find it difficult to compare the two, as they've both become kind of useless relative to their former glory. :p

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Bioware hands down. Bethesda games have never been as compelling for me. :/

[Hollycat]

Bioware is awesome, the best for stories. I love all the Mass Effect and Dragon Age games and can't wait more happen. That said I prefer The Elder Scrolls and Fallout as series


Probably my two favorite developers of all time, and I play their games over and over

[Forsaken Lover]

A lot of the Bethesda hate on here baffles me.

It's like, the post that said Bethesda doesn't know what was good about Morrowind. What "was" good about Morrowind? There was nothing special about it at all. I had fun with it certainly, reading the lore and learning about the Dunmer and the Battle of Red Mountain and all the rest of it.

However, I also had fun reading the lore in Skyrim, learning about the history of dragons, the Nords, the new Imperial Mede dynasty, etc..

The Elder Scrolls are games you play to run around and read books and maybe find some entertaining NPC's in sidequests along the way. The main plot is an afterthought in all my experience.

I suppose, push comes to shove, learning about the Tribunal, their relation to the Daedra, Dagoth Ur and so-on was more interesting than Skyrim's MQ but I never madeit too far in Skyrim's MQ because there was so much more to do.

Also, Skyrim Daedra >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrowind Daedra. All that happened in Morrowind when I found a Daedric Shrine was I got attacked. BORING! It was much more intriguing and varied in Skyrim.

P.S.

Choosing Imperial or Stormcloak was more interesting than choosing a Great House.

[Vyk]

Yeah, I think most people (though probably not Pike and Mr Adequate) appreciate Morrowind more for what it tried to do, and what it represents, more than what it actually is. I tried, and I think I got into it past its prime. It was very slow, very clunky, very glitchy, and very primitive regarding auto-saves, fast travel, etc.

What people praise the most, and probably rightly so, is the way guilds were set up, like having a couple of different types of the same thing to choose from, and the setting was so different and interesting compared to Skyrim and Oblivion basically just being fleshed out generic fantasy world #586. And from what I gathered the story was very a-typical. Though I didn't make it that far into it. The combat and load times killed it for me :/ But I appreciate it exists, and if they ever decide to update it, I will probably buy it day one

[Laddy]

I actually prefer Morrowind's dice rolls. It's clunky but I find it more "true" to its pen-and-paper inspirations which is a huge plus for me. It makes skills and attributes way less superfluous and requires one to put more effort to their character advancement compared to Skyrim and Oblivion where a lot of character growths I feel are arbitrary since most any build is plausibly effective.

[Forsaken Lover]

You act like people don't just abuse the hell out of Morrowind's broken as smurf Alchemy mechanics to jump from one side of the map to the other,give themselves a bajillion HP and let them oneshot any enemy.

And that's only the stuff a newbie like me knows. I'm sure there are infinitely other ways to break the game in half.

[Laddy]

Mechanics that are abusable I find to be indicative of good mechanics design.

[Pike]

The entire point of Bethesda is being able to become a god and break the games, it's amazing.

[Forsaken Lover]

Considering they started to adopt level scaling with Oblivion, I'm not sure that's true.

Of course, in reality, even when those bandits start wielding Daedric equipment for some reason, you can still kill them pretty easily. But the obvious intent is so you don't just crush everything by overleveling like you can do in Morrowind.

[Spuuky]

Oblivion's level-scaling system is the worst ever conceived in an RPG and is completely indefensible in its implementation.