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Forsaken Lover
08-19-2016, 12:49 AM
I always look at the kind of slavish "Best. Game/Movie/TV Show/etc. Ever." opinions with suspicion. It's just that, with the exception of Mass Effect 2, nothing has ever lived up to thE hype you can find on boards like this. I still have my doubts Persona 3 or 4 are half as brilliant as so many say. And lord knows Final Fantasy VI has never been able to hold my attention enough so I'd finish it.

What are your choices?

FFNut
08-19-2016, 12:56 AM
Top 4 most over rated RPG's

4. Dark Cloud. This had a unique idea but it got old fast.

3. Tecmo Secret of the Stars. I should replay this but it was awful. A rare flop for Tecmo.

2. Lufia 1. Maybe because the series makes more sence playing 2 first.

1. Secret of Mana. Just hate this title. Can't get into it, and hated playing it every time I tried it.

Vyk
08-19-2016, 02:54 AM
World of Warcraft

Wolf Kanno
08-19-2016, 06:15 AM
Unofficial Top Ten List in no particular order:

Final Fantasy VII - Can't hold my interest past Midgard anymore, I haven't been able to finish a playthrough in years. The writing is just terrible from Cosmo Canyon onward, and the gameplay balance also gets worse the further in. Great soundtrack though.

Mass Effect 2 - Way over-hyped and not nearly as strong in the world building as the first game. More shooter than RPG for my taste. Mordin and Jack were great but I pretty much hated most of the new characters.

Final Fantasy X - Overly melodramatic with a battle system that doesn't really become fun until your 30 hours in, by which point you don't care anymore. The rest I could say is well documented on this forum so just do a post search.

Persona 4 - Does a few things better than P3 for sure, but also makes some bad mistakes as well. The social-sim part is more fun but the dungeon crawling is more tedious than it needs to be and the story isn't as strong through multiple playthroughs. I also hate the True Ending as it always felt poorly tacked on and largely just redid the more dramatic and better scripted ending sequence to P3.

Valkyria Chronicles - Interesting gameplay that suffers from poor balancing and the Computer A.I. taking it's sweet time to take its turns because it knows its just going to cheese you with the RNG anyway. All this packaged with a bland and overdone "war is hell" anime troperiffic story. It also has the worst menu system I've ever encountered in a modern game.

Golden Sun - Boring story, generic world, and a customization system that always sounded better on paper than in practice. It would have been better had it been an SNES game. It just always feels dated to me, like it was trying to emulate the 16-bit era but made the mistake of inheriting some of the bad traits as well which don't fly as well for modern gaming taste. I hear the sequels are better but the first game left a bad taste in my mouth so I it may be awhile before I ever get around to them.

Crisis Core - "Only good game to come out of the Compialtion" my ass.

Dragon Quest IV - Like three cool characters who become pointless after their respective chapters and a boring grindy battle system that doesn't have something like Job Class or Monster raising to break up the monotony. Story sounds better on paper than in execution but that's kind of DQ's whole schlick. It just had the misfortune of being squeezed between the better entries in the series, not to mention that Final Fantasy finally kicked off its Golden Age around the time this game came out.

Kingdom Hearts II - While it may have the best collection of worlds of any entry in the series, my enthusiasm for it is hampered by the asinine writing; the poor pacing; the "let's make the player go through all the worlds twice!" mechanic that has never been appreciated or liked by players since like ever; and the battle mechanics that are roughly just set up a few support skills and then mash X until everything is dead gameplay that made the game boring. If you've only played KH1 and 2, and you're still somehow excited for KHIII, I can't even begin to fathom how.

Ocarina of Time - Yes I'm counting it. 3D controls are clunky, the best puzzles are just redo's of the better puzzles from LttP, and the new combat system divorces the gameplay into combat/exploring as opposed to the seamless design of the top down Zelda titles.

Pike
08-19-2016, 11:24 AM
Your favorite RPG.

That's right if you're reading this then your favorite RPG is OVERRATED :argh:

Galuf
08-19-2016, 11:50 AM
Your favorite RPG.

That's right if you're reading this then your favorite RPG is OVERRATED :argh:

what if my favourite rpg is FFTA?

Fynn
08-19-2016, 12:03 PM
For me it's Final Fantasy X for reasons that Wolf stated,

Other than that, there's a couple. Breath of Fire III was severely disappointing to me, despite the fanbase hyping it up to high heaven. There was just something bland about the world compared to IV, as well as the fact that beyond the half-way point (by which time the game was still pretty strong, IMO, what with the reveal with Garr and whatnot), the plot just falls apart and it's all just "Go there, meet God, and, uh, kill God, i guess. Why? What? Who cares! What are all these characters doing with you? Idk, you need some party members I guess! Oh and here;s your missing friend, but hje's suddenly evil, but no, he's dead now. So yeah, please kill God."

Kind of FFXIV, but that may be because MMOs just might not be my thing. Don't get me wrong - I had tons of fun. I just can't see myself investing so much time of my life into it, especially since you basically have just three larger areas to explore, to which I say bullshit because FFXII had more and if you want to keep people coming back, you'd think that more places to explore are the logical solution.

Yeah, Crisis Core has a surprisingly good reputation for a cringe-worthy fanfic!

I also don't get why Super Mario RPG gets so much attention. I mean, it was fun and all, but the Mario and Luigi series (Bowser's Inside Story, especially) are vastly superior in every respect, IMO.

Ocarina of Time is an okay game, but nowhere near the best Zelda. Hell, even nowhere near the best Zelda. Heck, while we're at it, I also think Majora's Mask and Wind Waker have become retroactively too big as a result of the backlash to the later games, since while they're both good games, I don't think they deserve as much praise as they get. Idk, Twilight Princess just hit that soft spot for me, so the rest felt kinda meh in comparison (though they're still all excellent games).

Dragon Quest VIII. Still an amazing, immersive experience, but it's a bit annoying that the game with one of the least interesting character progression systems is the only one people at large seem to recognize. And that's sad.

And lastly, NEVERWINTER NIGHTS! Good God was this game lame! And everyone and their mother seemed to play the hell out of it over here when it came out, saying how amazing it is. Yeah, yeah, I get that it has a very mod-friendly engine, but honestly, I never give a crap about mods at all. I want a nice world, cool system, and good story with good characters. I got none of that! The engine was very easy to use for modders but a result of that was that everything looked the same! Every dungeon, ever town, every friggin' home of which there are hundreds looks identical! The characters are also blocky and completely undistinct from each other, and everything is just gray. The world map from previous D&D games that let you explore all its locales freely is completely gone, and instead you have each chapter set in a different hub from which you have to perform basically the same set of fetch quests every damn time! That's the main problem with the story - every chapter is identical, the plot is weak and the characters are completely unremarkable, not to mention you don't even get to form a party and instead have to deal with this hireling bullshit that does not in any way work as a replacement to a full party. The expansions thankfully rectified many of those problems by giving you an actual party and much more interesting storylines, but the game still left a sour taste in my mouth, despite being praised so much by everyone around. I actually think 3rd edition D&D is a much better system than 2nd ed, but the 2nd ed video games were just much better done than NWN (not sure how Icewind Dale 2 handled D&D3 since I haven't played it yet, but I do plan to someday!).

sharkythesharkdogg
08-19-2016, 06:07 PM
The main one coming to mind right now would be Valkyrie Chronicles.

It's a combination of all the thing Wolf Canoe said, plus a few other issues. I like the game, but I definitely don't love it. I was planning on going back to beat it at some point, but it's not a priority.

If nothing else, it will let me laugh at (secretly ogle) the Big Baddie AKA F-Cup Hitler.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/valkyria/images/3/35/PXZ_Selvaria.png/revision/latest?cb=20131220211241

WW2 errybuddy.

Formalhaut
08-19-2016, 06:49 PM
Jumping on the FFX train here. Again, like Wolf Kanno said, though I'll add the extreme linearity which doesn't seem to drag it down compared to FFXIII, which gets ripped to shreds for the same problem. Post-game content is literally a monster killing grindfest and a few characters are unbalanced or overpowered.

Other RPGs? Hmm. I'm tempted to say Pokemon if I'm honest. While I'm getting back into it now, there are still a few issues for me, mainly to do with catching pokemon, like version exclusives, trading pokemon and other barriers to just filling out my pokedex, dammit.

FFNut
08-19-2016, 06:57 PM
The thing that saved FFX for me was Blitz Ball. I spent more time on my team then I did in game. I may aswell call the game Blitz Ball Manager as that was what it was for me.

Formalhaut
08-19-2016, 07:03 PM
The thing that saved FFX for me was Blitz Ball. I spent more time on my team then I did in game. I may aswell call the game Blitz Ball Manager as that was what it was for me.

I found Blitzball a chore because of the several important items that could only be found through playing the upper echelons of competition, like Wakka's best reels overdrives.

Actually on that note, you can add 'asinine minigames' to the list of things I hate about FFX. Smurfing lightning dodging.

Fynn
08-19-2016, 07:07 PM
Ooh, can I add The Last Story? I hate how it overshadowed Xenoblade simply because it had Sakaguchi's name on it. Sure, it had a cool system, fun party banter, and smart deconstructionist of fantasy tropes, but the overall plot was weak, world felt restrictive, and the main breeding pair was just abysmal. It's basically, to quote the ever insightful Lindsay Ellis' comments on Dear John, White Bread meets Mayonnaise Girl and they are perfect for each other.

Honestly, I've never seen two characters that are so dry and wooden in an RPG.

FFNut
08-19-2016, 07:18 PM
The thing that saved FFX for me was Blitz Ball. I spent more time on my team then I did in game. I may aswell call the game Blitz Ball Manager as that was what it was for me.

I found Blitzball a chore because of the several important items that could only be found through playing the upper echelons of competition, like Wakka's best reels overdrives.

Actually on that note, you can add 'asinine minigames' to the list of things I hate about FFX. Smurfing lightning dodging.


True if I look back at it story wise it was only a so-so game, but my Blitz Ball team was top notch.

Freya
08-19-2016, 08:08 PM
FF VII.

maybee
08-19-2016, 08:10 PM
http://www.goombastomp.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/a3a6d061-0541-4112-9817-23dd83836fb7.png

Forsaken Lover
08-19-2016, 09:03 PM
FFX is linear but not linear like FFXIII. It's a false comparison and people really need to stop making it.
FFX has towns, for one thing, as well as the ability to backtrack. There is actually more to do than "go forward" therefore it is not as linear as XIII.


It's also a great game but hey, this is a thread about showing what unique snowflakes we are and going against the flow.

Fynn
08-19-2016, 09:06 PM
And here I thought this was about popular games that we didn't really enjoy as much as we expected from all the hype.

Oh well, guess I was wrong. Now I'm tumblr trash :gator:

Forsaken Lover
08-19-2016, 09:48 PM
And here I thought this was about popular games that we didn't really enjoy as much as we expected from all the hype.

Oh well, guess I was wrong. Now I'm tumblr trash :gator:

That's the site with all the porn, right? That's all I ever used it for.

FFNut
08-19-2016, 10:27 PM
I like X but like I said, I was a Blitz Ball nut with it. Looking back I kinda agree with Fynn with it as when I replay it it always ends up a Blitz Ball game for me.

Pumpkin
08-19-2016, 11:28 PM
Super Mario RPG for me. Chrono Cross as well.

Randy
08-20-2016, 12:11 AM
FFX is linear but not linear like FFXIII. It's a false comparison and people really need to stop making it.


FFX isn't really much more linear than FF7, FF8, FF9. It's just set out as 1 long road for most of the game so it feels more linear!

Karifean
08-20-2016, 12:22 AM
Final Fantasy IV for me. Nothing about it stood out to me in any noteworthy way.

Wolf Kanno
08-20-2016, 12:38 AM
FFX is linear but not linear like FFXIII. It's a false comparison and people really need to stop making it.
FFX has towns, for one thing, as well as the ability to backtrack. There is actually more to do than "go forward" therefore it is not as linear as XIII.


Yeah but towns are kind of pointless in the game when you think about it. Enemies are far more generous with dropping items and equipment, not to mention the equipment system in the game makes carrying a whole lot a moot point in general. Also save points fully restore characters and are literally everywhere in the game. So in a lot of ways, it's kind of like FFVIII where towns were also useless beyond needing to go there for story purposes because all the important game functions can be done almost anywhere in the menu system.

You can backtrack, but there isn't a whole lot of reason to ever do so beyond Jecht Spheres, an useless upgrade to Valefore, and picking up stuff you might have missed which you'll find a bajillion more by just going forward. So it's kind of a moot feature.

I'll agree the level design is just poorly done and made the linear nature of dungeons more obvious than previous games.

Formalhaut
08-20-2016, 12:48 AM
FFX is linear but not linear like FFXIII. It's a false comparison and people really need to stop making it.
FFX has towns, for one thing, as well as the ability to backtrack. There is actually more to do than "go forward" therefore it is not as linear as XIII.


It's also a great game but hey, this is a thread about showing what unique snowflakes we are and going against the flow.

Kinda, but then is the ability to backtrack even worth it? With the exception of getting Jecht spheres and 'gotta catch em all' dark aeons and monsters, backtracking isn't really worth it. It's not like new sidequests appear in say, Besaid that warrants hiking it back down. You do end up getting the airship towards the end, but there's not much point using it. It's more a vessel that drops you off to catch more monsters for the monster arena.

FFXIII doesn't gain backtracking until chapter 11, then you can roam around previous areas in that chapter. You can then backtrack in chapter 13 to the chapter 11 and 12 areas. Not quite as extensive, but then, do you need to return to The Hanging Edge?

I'm not saying FFXIII's linearity is 'better', I have large problems with both, but FFX's backtracking didn't add to the experience of me. It had settlements, true, but largely towards the beginning. Besaid, Kilika, Luca, and then Bevelle. I might be missing one, possibly. The whole point of FFX is that large settlements couldn't exist because of Sin. I mean, FFXIII had towns as well, though I agree you could explore the villages and Luca fully. You can't really explore Nautilus and Palumpolum when you visit them.

I'd say they're not the same, but they have similar enough qualities that a comparison can be made.

Forsaken Lover
08-20-2016, 01:56 AM
Yeah but towns are kind of pointless in the game when you think about it. Enemies are far more generous with dropping items and equipment, not to mention the equipment system in the game makes carrying a whole lot a moot point in general. Also save points fully restore characters and are literally everywhere in the game. So in a lot of ways, it's kind of like FFVIII where towns were also useless beyond needing to go there for story purposes because all the important game functions can be done almost anywhere in the menu system.

Towns are a huge asset in terms of establishing a world and a plot's pacing. It's why X has better pacing than either XII or XIII. It let you sit back and properly digest what was happening, whereas XII numbed your mind with so much wandering between each and every town and XIII just kept up a nonstop barrage of "things" and Proper Nouns that left you very confused.

X's settlements were essential to helping keep everything nice and smooth so we could process this new world, its lore, and so-on. Meanwhile, in XII, you just get thrown into a horrible desert for ten years and in XIII you never have any real time to stop and catch your breath and figure out the difference between a PSICOM and a Cocoon.

(I brought XII into this because arguing X vs. XIII with you seems like it be kind of like arguing piss or feces so what's the point)

Spuuky
08-20-2016, 02:47 AM
Guys, guys. Both FFX and FFXIII are terrible games by historical RPG standards so there's no need to argue about which one is MORE terrible.

Wolf Kanno
08-20-2016, 06:17 AM
Yeah but towns are kind of pointless in the game when you think about it. Enemies are far more generous with dropping items and equipment, not to mention the equipment system in the game makes carrying a whole lot a moot point in general. Also save points fully restore characters and are literally everywhere in the game. So in a lot of ways, it's kind of like FFVIII where towns were also useless beyond needing to go there for story purposes because all the important game functions can be done almost anywhere in the menu system.

Towns are a huge asset in terms of establishing a world and a plot's pacing. It's why X has better pacing than either XII or XIII. It let you sit back and properly digest what was happening, whereas XII numbed your mind with so much wandering between each and every town and XIII just kept up a nonstop barrage of "things" and Proper Nouns that left you very confused.

X's settlements were essential to helping keep everything nice and smooth so we could process this new world, its lore, and so-on. Meanwhile, in XII, you just get thrown into a horrible desert for ten years and in XIII you never have any real time to stop and catch your breath and figure out the difference between a PSICOM and a Cocoon.

(I brought XII into this because arguing X vs. XIII with you seems like it be kind of like arguing piss or feces so what's the point)

I wouldn't go so far as to say they were "essential". Nothing non-cutscene related is really given in the towns that sell the story too much. This is what FFXII's towns have going for them, you'll actually get more of the world and story through interacting with the random NPCs than FFX's habit of having a cutscene have a party member break down everything relevant about the location before you're finally allowed to explore. This is ultimately the weakness in X's world design. Besiad and Kilika are great towns from a narrative perspective, but the farther you get in, the more meaningless each town gets for the player. Two of them are pretty much just glorified dungeons (Bevelle and Home) you visit once and you don't really get any sense of the culture or world from either of them that wasn't already shown to you in earlier non-town related places (Temples and most cutscenes for Yevon faith, and Operation Mihen/Rikku for the Al Bhed) so again, I would argue they weren't that relevant beyond the second town which is typical for RPGs in general when you think about it.

For FFXII though, you are meant to explore the world and interact with it. No party member to take ten minutes of your life explaining every single location and why it's relevant, no obnoxious old man to bore you to death with history and lore, and several cities that are fully explorable, more scaled to an actual city, and filled with NPCs you have to actually talk to multiple times to piece together what else is going on in Ivalice that surprisingly doesn't have to do with what your party is doing. The difference here is that we were placed on the tour of Spira in FFX, no deviation, keep your hands and feet firmly in the vehicle as people told you to "look over there" while they explain why you should care. FFXII was more like going to another country with a friend who ditched your ass the night before to strike it with that cute redhead and how you're going to have to wander around, talk to people, and actually immerse yourself in a foreign land if you want to get out of there. So I would argue FFXII did the town thing right.

escobert
08-20-2016, 01:31 PM
Your favorite RPG.

That's right if you're reading this then your favorite RPG is OVERRATED :argh:

what if my favourite rpg is FFTA?

What if Morrowind is my favorite RPG? :p

Wolf Kanno
08-22-2016, 09:53 PM
Ooh, can I add The Last Story? I hate how it overshadowed Xenoblade simply because it had Sakaguchi's name on it. Sure, it had a cool system, fun party banter, and smart deconstructionist of fantasy tropes, but the overall plot was weak, world felt restrictive, and the main breeding pair was just abysmal. It's basically, to quote the ever insightful Lindsay Ellis' comments on Dear John, White Bread meets Mayonnaise Girl and they are perfect for each other.

Honestly, I've never seen two characters that are so dry and wooden in an RPG.

I wouldn't call The Last Story overrated. Hell, no one has talked about it since it's release and in the years since it's release, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Xenoblade won that battle. One of the reasons why I didn't mention White Knight Chronicles is because the hype was mostly before it's release. No one talks about it anymore. The only time The Last Story ever gets mentioned is when Mistwalker announces a new TLS themed event for Terra Battle.

Fynn
08-22-2016, 10:04 PM
Well, it did definitely feel like that at one point. But yeah, Xenoblade definitely left a more noticeable mark on the genre.

Wolf Kanno
08-22-2016, 10:09 PM
Well, it did definitely feel like that at one point. But yeah, Xenoblade definitely left a more noticeable mark on the genre.

L0MK7qz13bU

NeoCracker
08-22-2016, 11:28 PM
Xenogears.

But most of you already know all my gripes with that game by this point. :p

Fynn
08-24-2016, 01:38 PM
Well, it did definitely feel like that at one point. But yeah, Xenoblade definitely left a more noticeable mark on the genre.

L0MK7qz13bU

But Zael is so blaaaaaaaaaaand :crying:

Wolf Kanno
08-24-2016, 07:35 PM
Well, it did definitely feel like that at one point. But yeah, Xenoblade definitely left a more noticeable mark on the genre.

L0MK7qz13bU

But Zael is so blaaaaaaaaaaand :crying:

Which is why a lot of his scenes are so unintentionally funny. :jess:

Pheesh
08-25-2016, 01:12 AM
XOC3vixnj_0

Raistlin
08-25-2016, 07:15 PM
FFVI: I think it's a very good game, but I don't consider it "best of all time" quality.

FFVII: See above. It's an entertaining game for very different reasons than FFVI, but it has terrible writing after disc 1 and has what feels like a half-finished plot. I still like it a lot, but it's not close to among the best.

FFX: Unlike the first two listed, I just didn't like this game much at all. Linear, cramped gameplay combined with annoying characters just makes it not an enjoyable experience.

(I would say FFIX, but I actually don't think the game is nearly as hyped anywhere else except EoFF :p)

Xenogears: I was never really able to get into this game, though I've been meaning for years to give it another try.