Westworld

[Psychotic]

Is anyone else watching this show? It's both enthralling and deeply unsettling at the same time. Ed smurfing Harris, son. Paint it Black and No Surprises too. Hot damn.

[Rantz]

This has definitely been worth watching so far - feels like a novel enough concept (yes I know it's based on a movie and I haven't seen it so it's novel to me). I'm so far much more interested in the awakening of Dolores et al than the scavenger hunt Ed Harris is doing. I reckon that was a "real" gun she found, ie. one with the potential to harm humans. Next person who tries to rape her is gonna get deaded!

[Psychotic]

Ooooooh! And she whacked that fly on her so we know she has the capacity to do it now! Also do you think that little boy with Doctor Anthony Hopkins is a cyborg younger version of himself?

[Night Fury]

JJ Abrams and Jonathan Nolan?

Well. Might just have to add this to the list of things to watch.

[Psychotic]

JJ Abrams and Jonathan Nolan?

Well. Might just have to add this to the list of things to watch.Do it! It's only just started so get in on the ground floor!

[Night Fury]

Will do! Drag Race goes into off season tomorrow (WAH) so I'll start it then! :)

[Slothy]

Fantastic show so far. And I would bet money on the thing in your spoiler about Hopkins being true Psy.

[Mirage]

I'm really excited to see what Dolores ends up doing with the device she found.

[Loony BoB]

I am enjoying it for what it is. I'm going to treat it like I treat most series I watch and not really spend time predicting what will happen, because it's just damn good couch TV for me. :)

And yeah, the Paint it Black music was excellent. Loved it.

[Del Murder]

Loved the Paint it Black scene.

I'm sure HBO wants this to be the heir apparent to GoT. So far so good. Some of the things the guests do with the robots is incredibly disturbing though.

I liked the bait and switch they did with the male lead in episodes 1 and 2.

My guess for the overall storyline: the company running Westworld is using as a testing ground for developing more and more humanlike robots which they will then unleash on the rest of the world and use them to acquire political office and other powerful positions.

[Mirage]

that's what i think they're up to too, del. that, or political assassinations, undercover operations in foreign countries. these machines would never defect, and if they were captured, no amount of torture or coercion would make them give up any secrets. of course, unless they were hacked, but naturally, like every company making technology, they think their own products won't be hacked because they've hack-proofed their products sufficiently :p. Of course, they could just be programmed to self-destruct if captured. I'm sure certain governments would pay good money for a perfect agent

[Shaibana]

Hello! Shai here, reporting for duty *salutes*

this show had me hooked imediatly!

[Slothy]

that's what i think they're up to too, del. that, or political assassinations, undercover operations in foreign countries. these machines would never defect, and if they were captured, no amount of torture or coercion would make them give up any secrets. of course, unless they were hacked, but naturally, like every company making technology, they think their own products won't be hacked because they've hack-proofed their products sufficiently :p. Of course, they could just be programmed to self-destruct if captured. I'm sure certain governments would pay good money for a perfect agent

Never mind governments. If you owned a company that can make these things why not just use them yourself? Any government or agency you want will be in your pocket soon enough. Plus, if any were found out everyone would immediately know who made them. Best to have more in place to be able to cover it up or make it look like the situation is being dealt with when it's not really.

I can't help but think of the Secret Invasion Marvel series when I ponder this actually.

[Marshall Banana]

I like all the actors in the show (they're amazing), but what the show is putting forward is so impractical (and sometimes pretentious) that I'm annoyed watching it. I can't adequately articulate how I feel about it, but how the story is presented makes it impossible for me to suspend disbelief and accept its reality -- maybe because of what it chooses to focus on. I dunno. Examples below.



Why is Westworld a physical location instead of a digital one?
The invincibility of humans who visit Westworld -- this is the big one once I realized that Westworld is supposed to be real and not a virtual reality. Maybe I misunderstood, but how could this possibly work? Episode 2 seemed to insinuate that there are special guns that can cause damage (the ones given to humans before they enter Westworld). What happens if a robot takes one of those? What about knives, heavy furniture, and fisticuffs? Ed Harris' character encounters violence from the bots (like James Marsden's character in episode 1 and the lawmen in episode 2) but they use only guns. Are the bots programmed to use only guns assigned to them no matter what? Because it seemed like Dolores found one of the human's guns and will be able to kill humans now, but I don't know if that's a flaw in her programming or what. Also, what happens if a human shoots another human? Are the guns supposed to be smart enough to not fire at a human? I feel like this is a slippery concept, and they'll have trouble writing around this. This is already killing the plot for me.
How are there enough rich people who want to rape and murder (including entire families who visit this place and experience horrifying violence, like the shootout in town) to sustain this business?

[Mirage]

It's possible that virtual reality that looks and feels as real as this hasn't been made yet.

I'm thinking not *all* visitors are there to rape and murder. Kill, sure, but not just gun down indiscriminately. As explained, the world gets more and more violent the further from town you go, so perhaps families just stay close to town if they don't want things to get completely crazy. Of course, there was that shootout with the bandits in town, but that was an extraordinary event that was staged just to cover up the fact that something like a hundred hosts were missing from the world.

The hosts are programmed not to harm humans by any means, even if they got a hold of something like a knife. Of course, accidents happen, and this is actually described in the terms of use that players have to agree to when they enter. There have been deaths there in the past. I think it's using some sort of "smart" bullet that would disintegrate if it hits humans. Of course, they need some time to detect and react to that, which is why that host couldn't fire at the man in black at point blank range. His programming determined that this would probably hurt the human significantly. I also think the gun Dolores found might be something else than just a player's gun. I was thinking it was perhaps planted there, and is in fact a real gun with normal ammo.

[Slothy]

Yeah, what Mirage said for the most part. A lot of those questions were answered either directly or hinted at in the show. Especially hosts not being able to harm humans. And Dolores definitely has some things happening with her program. It's been heavily implied that the problems that affected her father have passed to her, and it seems she might have passed it to the one running the brothel. I'm not convinced it's actually a matter of faulty code though. I think the update either included code to secretly awaken them to what's been going on, or there's a flaw that has started to awaken them and she's simply processing it all better than her father was able to.

As for how there are enough people who have the money to go there, I'd imagine it's a pretty massive attraction. The sort of thing that many middle class families and individuals might be willing to spend years saving for. Not to mention there are a lot of people in the world who, while probably not mega rich, have earnings into the millions per year. A quick google search tells me that even in 2009 it was more than 230,000 in the US alone. There's a lot of potential customers is what I'm getting at. And even still, they basically all but said in the last episode that the park is one part of the business but that there's a bigger picture beyond that. Likely the park isn't even the most lucrative facet of this technology.

[Del Murder]

This show does require you to suspend your disbelief more than most, but smurf it, it's about wild west robots. Just enjoy the ride.

[Psychotic]

So latest episode I found myself getting invested in the Wyatt storyline but then sort of stopped myself as I realised it wasn't real and scripted. And then I remembered the entire show isn't real and scripted so what the hell, may as well carry on the ride.

[Slothy]

So latest episode I found myself getting invested in the Wyatt storyline but then sort of stopped myself as I realised it wasn't real and scripted. And then I remembered the entire show isn't real and scripted so what the hell, may as well carry on the ride.

Seemed to me they were bullet proof too so poor Teddy is never getting his revenge since it's people joining up with Wyatt and butchering him as usual.

[Psychotic]

I hadn't even considered that. Nice thinking.

[Del Murder]

It's hard for me to get into the host storylines even though it is exactly as you say, Psy.

I guess it's the same for me with video games. Take the obvious parallel, Red Dead Redemption. The NPCs are programmed to play out their roles and engage in certain behaviors whether you interact with them or not, but I never really cared about anything that happened with them and I barely interact with the background. I only cared about John Marston's storyline since that was the real story that I was a part of.

[Slothy]

Considering the hosts stories help inform who they are and they're very clearly starting to go way off script and learn what's been happening to them I couldn't be more interested honestly. Who these hosts are matters, whether their stories are made up or not.

[Shaibana]

well.. thats the entire core of the show, isnt it? Robots that become aware of what they are and what has been done to them
maybe i misunderstood but am i feeling a starting dislike for this show? D:

i was already a bit 'angry' that the guests couldnt get shot and that they didnt even feel a thing like the old man in the first 2 episodes.. so i was glad when the new guest ( i dont know his name) did feel a shot.. wouldnt be realistic if they didnt feel anything at all. i'm guessing he is used to it after 30 years?

p.s i dislike that obvious badguy English prick :l he's gonna mess stuff up with his new storylines.
just like Elsie..

[Psychotic]

I just call "the new guest" Liam McPoyle.

[Miriel]

I find the show super interesting so far and there's so many great actors in it. But every episode I've watched, I keep having this thought in my head of, "How are they going to sustain this?"

I can absolutely see this running as a mini series, but the whole concept is just so singular that I can't imagine unpacking it for multiple seasons, which I think is the intent of the showrunners? They've mentioned already having plotted out 4-5 seasons but I'm pretty dubious.

I can already see how they're trying to expand the mythology of the show, but ultimately I think we all know the basic outline of the show. Robots are human play things. Robots gain sentience. Robot revenge. Right? I could see them spreading out the scope of the show to include the corporate interests, religious angles and whatnot, but still, I wonder about the sustainability of the show. And it's not like Abrams has a good track record with creating mythologies and sustaining them. A lot of his projects just unravel in unpleasant ways as it chugs along.

Anyway, putting all that aside, I gotta say that I really really appreciate the fact that the show doesn't *actually* depict the rape scenes in gratuitous ways like some other HBO shows (looking at you GOT!). It's implied and it's horrific and the consequences of the trauma are already apparent (although I assume it will become even more of an issue as the characters gain more sentience) but it's not shown with the typical male gaze in mind and I appreciate that.

Also, I love James Marsden in almost everything he does and I hope he can survive a full episode soon. We've only gotten snippets of them together but I hope Teddy and Dolores make it together in the end (though Marsden almost never gets the girl!!). I'm already invested in those two and want them to kill all the rapists and live happily ever after. I honestly don't care for the human overlords that much, and I fucking hate most of the guests.

[Slothy]

I'd normally be worried about anything Abrams is involved in but he doesn't seem to be writing, directing, or otherwise doing anything day to day I can find and most of the other people involved are more talented than him so I'll ignore his involvement for now.

[Shaibana]

i dont understand how they can fix the entire masacred saloon in 1 day/night without any guests noticing.

[Slothy]

Who says the guests don't? They're in on it so just tell them it's closed for the evening.

[Psychotic]

I'm still not sure on what the cycle is for the park - sometimes it seems like things are reset daily but then you have camping out for longer adventures and things like Hector being broken out in 3 days time. Not a huge deal to me anyway.

Anyway, everything Ed Harris touches in this show turns to fucking gold.

[Shaibana]

i believe every character has its own cycle. some have 1 day, others 3 days etc depending on theire storyline.

but the park is all about a realistic experience in the west... it wouldnt be realistic if you see the cleanup crew every night.

Ed Harris is epic. i thought he was going to be the one to hate but i really love him now

[Del Murder]

Ed Harris still raped an increasingly self-aware robot, so he doesn't get a pass from me. But his scenes were great in this episode. Love the hints dropped about who he and William are on the outside as you gradually get to know them. I'm actually far more interested in them than any of the robots, though Paolo and the main hooker lady are growing on me.

Interesting that Ed Harris's exploding cigar was a somewhat of a 'cheat code' in the park that they had to authorize at master control. That means they do know who he is and maybe even what he is up to, and yet don't seem to care. It's possible the maze is something people are intended to find as sort of metagame on top of the usual wild west shenanigans.

Probably my favorite episode so far.

[Psychotic]

After that brief flashback Dolores had of the incident in episode 3, me and the WW fans at work no longer think he raped her. We think he was going after some information relating to the maze just as he has with all the other hosts. I don't think it's a coincidence that they both are the two characters most concerned with it.

[Slothy]

I'm still not sure on what the cycle is for the park - sometimes it seems like things are reset daily but then you have camping out for longer adventures and things like Hector being broken out in 3 days time. Not a huge deal to me anyway.

It's possible that they only reset when not actively engaged in a story with guests.

[Del Murder]

After that brief flashback Dolores had of the incident in episode 3, me and the WW fans at work no longer think he raped her. We think he was going after some information relating to the maze just as he has with all the other hosts. I don't think it's a coincidence that they both are the two characters most concerned with it.
That makes sense and maybe he didn't rape her this time but it's clear that he's done so many times over the years as he mentions how she 'fights it' and the whole scenario is very familiar to him. She may have been less sentient at the time, but it is hard to root for a guy who forces sex on a humanlike non-sexbot.

[Mirage]

well, as far as he's concerned, they are just robots, right? very few people know that some of them are self aware. Would he have killed them if he thought they were self-aware? Would he have scalped them? Would he have shot a little girl's mother in the head while she was looking if he thought they were self-aware? I dunno. Maybe? My point is just that if we're going to judge the players based on what they do to sentient robots when they don't know they're sentient, then basically 80% of the guests are horrible human beings deserving the death penalty. Some of these guests just indiscriminately slaughters entire families for fun, remember

[Del Murder]

Well, sentient or not, 80% of the guests probably are horrible human beings, but that's a topic for another day.

[Psychotic]

How many of us have played a game like GTA and gone on the rampage, smurfing up everyone's trout for no other reason than fun? This is just the same principle with more advanced technology.

To the best of my knowledge the NPCs I killed were not sentient nor remember what I did so I don't feel any guilt over it. Sure, they ran away screaming and cried out in pain when I shot them, but that was just their programming. It's part of making a realistic experience. If I was suddenly made aware that actually they have the same cognition as the hosts in Westworld I would feel like an almighty piece of trout and wouldn't do it again. But they don't... I hope ;)

[Del Murder]

Hey man, I never said any of you guys were great...

Also, there's a difference between taking your GTA character into a van with a hooker and sticking your actual penis into a robot that is pleading for you not to do it.

I guess it will be interesting to see how Ed Harris and the other guests react to the knowledge of the robots becoming self-aware, and if they continue to do what they've always been doing, since there seems to be no dispute that you are horrible person at that point.

[Slothy]

Yeah, there's a big difference between the likes of GTA and raping and murdering robots made to pass for real people to the point where their bodies are indistinguishable from human bodies at the surface level and who are able to interact and pass for human if you don't talk about things they're not allowed to talk about.

It's not actually a question of whether they're sentient, it's whether you could tell that kind of determines if you're an asshole or not. When they're this realistic and you still don't even hesitate for a second, there may be something wrong with you.

[Mirage]

Hey man, I never said any of you guys were great...

Also, there's a difference between taking your GTA character into a van with a hooker and sticking your actual penis into a robot that is pleading for you not to do it.

I guess it will be interesting to see how Ed Harris and the other guests react to the knowledge of the robots becoming self-aware, and if they continue to do what they've always been doing, since there seems to be no dispute that you are horrible person at that point.

The only difference is the level of realism. Fast forward a decade or so, perhaps, and we might have VR games where the NPCs act nearly as human as these, and might look so real that it would be hard to tell the graphics apart from actual video of humans. Would you be a horrible person for killing an innocent NPC who begged for their life just for fun? You could say that you as the player would be *pretty sure* that these NPCs in your game did not have any sort of self awareness, and you'd probably be right.

However, for all we know, strong AI with self awareness might not have been invented in the world Westworld takes place in either. The characters in this show are basically computers with computer programs running inside them. Why should the players assume that for some reason these programs were self aware when no other program in the entire world is? I mean they're just playing a game, why would game characters have self awareness when this doesn't even exist in state of the art computer research projects? Are the actions of the player any worse when they are done to a self-aware program without a physical body than one that does have one? I don't think so. Putting more value to a physical body than a virtual body might be natural for a human to do, as they physical world is the only real world they know, but isn't that sort of discriminatory towards lifeforms that don't have physical form?

Or to make another extreme example. This might be a bit graphic so be warned.

What if there was a westworld character with the same personality and perceived intelligence as one of the humanoid robots, except this robot was a metal box with wheels. Is putting a bullet in this robot less evil than putting a bullet in the innocent young woman robot's head? What about putting your penis inside these two robots (lets assume the metal box has something resembling a bodily orifice that isn't uncomfortable to use)?

[Psychotic]

Also, there's a difference between taking your GTA character into a van with a hooker and sticking your actual penis into a robot that is pleading for you not to do it.Is there a difference between shooting someone in the face yourself and, say, using a drone to do it as you control it through a screen from thousands of miles away?

[Loony BoB]

Damn, you guys gettin' all philosophical in here. I'm just intrigued by the entire story and am leaving it at that. xD I don't want to overthink it to the point that it loses the story and becomes a research paper. Interesting thoughts all around, though.

I don't know who Paolo is that Murd mentioned in an earlier post...?

[Del Murder]

The outlaw who comes to town every 3 days to shoot everyone up is Paolo from Lost. Probably my favorite robot character. Should learn his name.

[Del Murder]

Also, there's a difference between taking your GTA character into a van with a hooker and sticking your actual penis into a robot that is pleading for you not to do it.Is there a difference between shooting someone in the face yourself and, say, using a drone to do it as you control it through a screen from thousands of miles away?
There's not a lot of difference, no. But the killing is not all that bothersome. If you shoot some robot in the face with a gun or you doing by controlling a drone through a screen, it is still somewhat external to you. You are controlling a device (gun/controller) and the device is doing the killing. Especially if it is the 'bad guy' and part of the 'game' to do this. Even if you are shooting good guys, you are playing some role and it is part of the game design to play like this.

Sex, particularly rape, is very different than this. It is intrinsically internal. Controlling a drone dick and putting it in some VR character who is screaming for you not to do it and writhing in pain as you do, and getting pleasure from that, puts you on the same spectrum as someone who would do that with their own flesh dick. The flesh dicker is just so much worse because it is so much more real for them, but both people are pretty messed up.

Same as if you, say, mutilated these robots while they were still 'alive' or shot every man woman, or child in sight. There is still the line between doing this in a fantasy world with no consequences and doing it in reality to real people, which of course separates people from being criminals from simply being disturbed, but there is another line that separates the disturbed from the non-disturbed based on what level of torture, even fake, gives you pleasure.

A lot of the guests in Westworld are disturbed. They are probably not criminals. Hell, crime is probably down in this world since you can satisfy these urges legally in this fantasy world (if you can afford it).

[Shaibana]

The outlaw who comes to town every 3 days to shoot everyone up is Paolo from Lost. Probably my favorite robot character. Should learn his name.

we dont know Paolo from lost, so lets just keep it at Hector :P

[Shaibana]

p.s i dislike that obvious badguy English prick :l he's gonna mess stuff up with his new storylines.
just like Elsie..

he reminds me of this guy
http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ayL0ebp_460sv.mp4

i dont like their excesive use of 'fuck'

[Psychotic]

The outlaw who comes to town every 3 days to shoot everyone up is Paolo from Lost. Probably my favorite robot character. Should learn his name.

we dont know Paolo from lost, so lets just keep it at Hector :PJust one of a couple of jabronis.

[Shaibana]

since the hype around this show isnt that big here and on the internet in general ( :( ) i feel safe enough to watch it a day later on HBO On Demand on the tv :3
since it airs here at 03:00 in the night on a monday i'll watch it on tuesday

edit: ooh, its also on 20:30 but i dont have time then

[Miriel]

How many of us have played a game like GTA and gone on the rampage, smurfing up everyone's trout for no other reason than fun? This is just the same principle with more advanced technology.

To the best of my knowledge the NPCs I killed were not sentient nor remember what I did so I don't feel any guilt over it. Sure, they ran away screaming and cried out in pain when I shot them, but that was just their programming. It's part of making a realistic experience. If I was suddenly made aware that actually they have the same cognition as the hosts in Westworld I would feel like an almighty piece of trout and wouldn't do it again. But they don't... I hope ;)

Um, I haven't!! And hell no it's not the same principle. The possibilities that exist within technology absolutely impact who we are as people and also impacts what the hell "real" even means. Are you people not watching Black Mirror??!

I mean, that's if you are fully willing to literally stick your dick in a nearly perfect replica of a human being who is begging you not to, then you are a rapist, full stop. Arguing that this isn't the case is asinine. We're not talking about a court of law here, we're talking about who you are as a person. I would argue that deriving pleasure from directly creating and participating in causing perceived misery of others makes you pretty fucked up, regardless of whether that misery is a series of program code spitting out natural reactions relevant to the situation.

[Del Murder]

Loved the Anthony Hopkins 'hey I know what you're doing and can stop it any time I choose but go ahead and have fun, k?' scene in this episode. Also I keep forgetting his character's name so I'm just going to refer to him as John Hammond.

[Psychotic]

Another good episode. John Hammond (aka Robert) is indeed stone cold, loved that little switch he did with Teddy. Westworld itself seems to be a much bigger concept than I imagined. A full town of skullfaces and orgies and apparently an entire war?


I mean, that's if you are fully willing to literally stick your dick in a nearly perfect replica of a human being who is begging you not to, then you are a rapist, full stop. Arguing that this isn't the case is asinine. But I'm not arguing that's not the case :p I agree with your definition of a rapist there. I'm just asking where we draw the line because, as a question of ethics and morality, this show really intrigues me. It seems you and Del both consider the physical act by your own body to be the defining characteristic but where we disagree is that I don't think you can necessarily separate your behaviour by proxy or an avatar either.

If you had a robot which you had full control over using a video game controller, and it has a robot penis (I am so sorry, this is the worst thing I have ever said on this site!), and you control that robot to make it rape someone, are you not also just as much of a scumbag rapist than if you had done it yourself?

So, assuming video game NPCs have the same sentience as the characters in Westworld, isn't inflicting these crimes upon them just as awful? Especially if you believe they're just programs and have no feelings. Or would we just be content to say someone who commits rape in a video game (I don't even know if there are any games where it's possible but I assume so) is a creepy weirdo but not morally guilty of the act of rape?

[Mirage]

Another good episode. John Hammond (aka Robert) is indeed stone cold, loved that little switch he did with Teddy. Westworld itself seems to be a much bigger concept than I imagined. A full town of skullfaces and orgies and apparently an entire war?


I mean, that's if you are fully willing to literally stick your dick in a nearly perfect replica of a human being who is begging you not to, then you are a rapist, full stop. Arguing that this isn't the case is asinine. But I'm not arguing that's not the case :p I agree with your definition of a rapist there. I'm just asking where we draw the line because, as a question of ethics and morality, this show really intrigues me. It seems you and Del both consider the physical act by your own body to be the defining characteristic but where we disagree is that I don't think you can necessarily separate your behaviour by proxy or an avatar either.

If you had a robot which you had full control over using a video game controller, and it has a robot penis (I am so sorry, this is the worst thing I have ever said on this site!), and you control that robot to make it rape someone, are you not also just as much of a scumbag rapist than if you had done it yourself?

So, assuming video game NPCs have the same sentience as the characters in Westworld, isn't inflicting these crimes upon them just as awful? Especially if you believe they're just programs and have no feelings. Or would we just be content to say someone who commits rape in a video game (I don't even know if there are any games where it's possible but I assume so) is a creepy weirdo but not morally guilty of the act of rape?
Oh there definitely are, and they are, unsurprisingly, japanese.

[Shaibana]

meh, i'm thinking wrong..

monday 03:00 is in my mind after 00:00 monday evening. but thats already tuesday :3
so when i get home on monday i can already watch it... yay!

[Del Murder]

But I'm not arguing that's not the case :p I agree with your definition of a rapist there. I'm just asking where we draw the line because, as a question of ethics and morality, this show really intrigues me. It seems you and Del both consider the physical act by your own body to be the defining characteristic but where we disagree is that I don't think you can necessarily separate your behaviour by proxy or an avatar either.

I don't think there is a line. Like porn at EoFF, you know it when you see it. Actually, it's more like a spectrum. Obviously committing the crime of rape to a human being is on one end. Your robot penis example may not be as close to it as sticking your flesh penis in a humanoid fleshy robot but it's still on the rapist spectrum.

The only line is what makes you a criminal, and that's a really important line, but this discussion isn't about who is or isn't a criminal.

[Miriel]

Another good episode. John Hammond (aka Robert) is indeed stone cold, loved that little switch he did with Teddy. Westworld itself seems to be a much bigger concept than I imagined. A full town of skullfaces and orgies and apparently an entire war?


I mean, that's if you are fully willing to literally stick your dick in a nearly perfect replica of a human being who is begging you not to, then you are a rapist, full stop. Arguing that this isn't the case is asinine. But I'm not arguing that's not the case :p I agree with your definition of a rapist there. I'm just asking where we draw the line because, as a question of ethics and morality, this show really intrigues me. It seems you and Del both consider the physical act by your own body to be the defining characteristic but where we disagree is that I don't think you can necessarily separate your behaviour by proxy or an avatar either.

If you had a robot which you had full control over using a video game controller, and it has a robot penis (I am so sorry, this is the worst thing I have ever said on this site!), and you control that robot to make it rape someone, are you not also just as much of a scumbag rapist than if you had done it yourself?

So, assuming video game NPCs have the same sentience as the characters in Westworld, isn't inflicting these crimes upon them just as awful? Especially if you believe they're just programs and have no feelings. Or would we just be content to say someone who commits rape in a video game (I don't even know if there are any games where it's possible but I assume so) is a creepy weirdo but not morally guilty of the act of rape?
Oh there definitely are, and they are, unsurprisingly, japanese.

In your robot dick example, yes, that does make someone as much of a scumbag.

If you've seen the White Christmas episode of Black Mirror, it deals with what people are willing to do to "lines of code" or programs that they don't view as having the same level of consideration as human people. And it is utterly and completely horrifying.

This is what I mean by technology having huge implications on morality and ethics. And the better the technology gets, the more those issues are going to be pronounced. The fact that one technology is an extension of another, doesn't mean that technology as a catch all can be assumed to be separate from our humanity. The technology in West World is good enough so that the hosts in the world believe that they are real, and they believe that are experiencing the things that are happening to them. And on a level that even some of the people in the show don't realize, they are beginning to have sentience outside of what was initially programmed into them. So the argument that they aren't being brutalized doesn't really fly because of the whole consciousness aspect. But even without consciousness, you still have to contend with what people are willing to do to robots, which says more about that person than it does about the technology or the robots.

Maybe I'm pessimistic but I think the better our technology gets, the more the horrible side of people will rise to the surface. :(

[McLovin']

Caught up with the show. Love it. There's a game called Talos Principle and I think it'll end the same way as that game. The AI's reach consciousness by being freed from the game and get downloaded into an outside body or robot.

Also call me crazy but the song on the OST "No Surprises" sounds so much like Garnet's theme. I think most of the music reminds me of FF9's world, do you hear it?

[Rantz]

Ahhh this latest episode was so good. Maeve! MAEVE. I expect she's going to have a LOT of fun.

Why do shows nowadays have intros that last ages though? Like, Westworld's and many others are really well made and I can appreciate them one or two times but after that, I just wanna see the show, not sit through one and a half minutes of something I've seen before!

[Psychotic]

Yeah! Maeve is a beast. And I fully agree about the intro, it was cool seeing it once but now it's kinda ehhh. Lost did it right!

[Slothy]

Technically Seinfeld was doing it right first. Though I don't mind the intro. I could watch that thing all day. Of course some of us aren't youngins spoiled on intros tailored to their small attention spans.

[Psychotic]

Must've been a long 18 months :p

[Slothy]

I was walking and conversing before you were even born son. :p

[Del Murder]

Netflix's intros are also super long but you can fast forward them. You can also fast forward the intro on HBO Go/Now but the screen gives you no indication of where you are stopping at so you have to guess. Even in the old VCR days you can see the scenes moving in fast motion to know when to stop it. Why is Netflix the only company with a robust fast forward feature? Is the technology proprietary?

[Loony BoB]

Another example of a great intro: Scrubs.

[Del Murder]

Game of Thrones has one of the best long intros because those models are amazing and it also changes based on what locations and characters will be featured in the episode.

[Rantz]

Yeah, I do appreciate the GoT intro despite its length because it changes between episodes.

[Psychotic]

Shit just went down

[Slothy]

Doesn't look like anything to me.

[McLovin']

Doesn't look like anything to me.

This comment doesn't look like anything to me.

[Shaibana]

omg, gotta love Hopkins.. killing her in cold blood :O
he will Not go down easy!

p.s This thread doesn't look like anything to me.

[Mirage]

omg, gotta love Hopkins.. killing her in cold blood :O
he will Not go down easy!

p.s This thread doesn't look like anything to me.
Haven't you heard of spoiler tags? Thanks a lot.

[McLovin']

Notice we didn't see Bernard's name at the bottom of the paper like Dolores? CAS HE'S FUCKING THE OG ARNOLD

[Rantz]

Aw man that was a great episode! Did not have even an inkling about that twist until the "What door?" line. Now I'm speculating about all the staff though.

We'd better get to see what happened to Elsie by next episode though or somebody's getting fired.

[Shaibana]

omg, gotta love Hopkins.. killing her in cold blood :O
he will Not go down easy!

p.s This thread doesn't look like anything to me.
Haven't you heard of spoiler tags? Thanks a lot.

ooh sorry, i kinda asumed it was like the GoT and TWD thread..

sorry D:

[Mirage]

everyone else has been spoilertagging things so far

[Slothy]

Spoiler tags ultimately seem a bit silly to me in a thread that's discussing a show that's running right now. We should all pretty much be aware that each week people are going to be talking about the newest episode and just avoid the thread until we see it.

[Loony BoB]

Announcement: Spoilers: How and when to use them (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/167188-Announcement-Spoilers-How-and-when-to-use-them)


- If the episode has aired and the TV series' name is in the title of the thread, spoilers should be assumed to be within the content of the thread.

Spoilers are a common topic and that was the end result of it.

Every single episode leaves me going "...damn". So ....damn. Seriously, the second he said "What door?" my mind was blown.

[Del Murder]

Those spoilers don't look like anything to me.

[Mirage]

I'm well aware of all this. As I said, everything else in the thread has been spoilertagged, so kinda thought it was gonna continue that way.

[McLovin']

Teddy killed a minotaur. A minotaur at what is probably guarding the maze.

Man in Black: Do you want to know who I am? I'm...Wi- A god.

Damnit!!!

[Del Murder]

Ha, didn't catch the Minotaur thing.

Ford is crazy, but he made a good point about humans being comfortable in our loops and being told what to do.

[Rantz]

It was a good point, but I think as an answer to Bernard's question it was a bit of a cop-out. "What's the difference between my mind and yours?" "Consciousness doesn't exist because we're all stuck in our loops so you're not missing out"

Also did I miss something, or does not even Ford realise the memory erasure isn't 100% effective?

[Del Murder]

No, I don't think he realizes how deep Arnold's hack goes. If there is an Arnold.

[Freya]

NOT READING ANY OF THESE POSTS:

I just started this show this past weekend. Only two in but wow is it original. I'll catch up to everyone. Great show though!

[starlet]

I just want to add that the soundtrack keeps getting better each ep :love:

[McLovin']

I just want to add that the soundtrack keeps getting better each ep :love:

yes that house of the rising sun piano was surprising to hear! Really liked it.

[Mirage]

I don't recognize any of these piano songs

[Shaibana]

I don't recognize any of these piano songs

lol. Me neither

that scene with maeve telling others what to do was hilarious xD

[Araciel]

freakin' kids. The song choice seems to be so people in my demographic will be like 'awww nice radiohead'

great show great cast just plain great

[starlet]

I don't recognize any of these piano songs

Wtf who are you


Even

[Mirage]

freakin' kids. The song choice seems to be so people in my demographic will be like 'awww nice radiohead'

great show great cast just plain great

I wonder how many 70's and 80's electronic songs you'd recognize

[Araciel]

freakin' kids. The song choice seems to be so people in my demographic will be like 'awww nice radiohead'

great show great cast just plain great

I wonder how many 70's and 80's electronic songs you'd recognize

and if we were talking about a show that featured some, i'd be the one saying i didn't recognize anything... but here we are.

[Mirage]

That's besides the point :p

[Shaibana]

Great episode :D

1 thing bothers me: surely someone would remember or atleast have known arnold through the media and recognize him?

[Slothy]

Great episode :D

1 thing bothers me: surely someone would remember or atleast have known arnold through the media and recognize him?

Do you know anyone who worked with Bill Gates to start Microsoft? Did any of us even know Bill Gates before Windows? Ten years after Microsofts founding, though if we're honest, how many of us really knew much or gave a shit about them until Windows 3.0 15 years after the company was founded?

If Arnold was reclusive enough, died before the park became a really big hit, and they were very incentivized by what he did to scrub him from the records, it makes sense to me no one who wasn't there doesn't know about him.

[Psychotic]

This show gets more and more mindblowing. ...literally, I guess.

[Rantz]

For whatever reason - not because I've given it a lot of thought or anything like that - the twists this episode didn't really shock me. On some level I feel like I was kinda subconsciously expecting them. Not sure what I based it on. Anyone else, or were y'all pretty surprised?

[McLovin']

Not surprised, no. But still excellently revealed. And I didng expect the Dolores/Arnold reveal at the very end.

Honestly after this episode I'm team Ford and Logan. Ford just wants the hosts to be happy in the park. Why become humanlike and suffer like humanity suffers. Especially if they want to leave and join the outside world. They'll get ostracised. Ford is a good God keeping his creations under control. Arnold is altruistic and his actions will cause unforeseen consequences as Ford knows. And Logan just wants to bond with his brodie. Sure he's a douche but least he isn't falling in love with a sex robot like William. I get we know William is right buy cmon you can try to explain it to Logan without sounding crazy! Logan even saw evidence of it when Dolores spoke back to him

[Shaibana]

Great episode :D

1 thing bothers me: surely someone would remember or atleast have known arnold through the media and recognize him?

Do you know anyone who worked with Bill Gates to start Microsoft? Did any of us even know Bill Gates before Windows? Ten years after Microsofts founding, though if we're honest, how many of us really knew much or gave a trout about them until Windows 3.0 15 years after the company was founded?

If Arnold was reclusive enough, died before the park became a really big hit, and they were very incentivized by what he did to scrub him from the records, it makes sense to me no one who wasn't there doesn't know about him.

aah right, that makes sense :3

[Del Murder]

The Arnold reveal was great. Makes you rethink some of the scenes from earlier episodes.

Has the William/Delores storyline crossed over with any others yet? My wife and I have a theory as to how that one plays out.

[Rantz]

The Arnold reveal was great. Makes you rethink some of the scenes from earlier episodes.

Has the William/Delores storyline crossed over with any others yet? My wife and I have a theory as to how that one plays out.
If you're getting at what I think you are, I saw someone mention that theory a while back and so far I haven't seen anything that would preclude that, which makes it seem all the more likely given how much screentime they've had to disprove it.

[Del Murder]

Ok, well here it is for those interested:

The William/Delores storyline is actually in the past and Ed Harris is actually William in the present. The existence of robots who don't age actually makes playing with time rather easy!

[Rantz]

Ok, well here it is for those interested:

The William/Delores storyline is actually in the past and Ed Harris is actually William in the present. The existence of robots who don't age actually makes playing with time rather easy!
Yep, that's what I figured you meant. It seems likely. I did as it happens think of a snag, though (I'm sure this has been discussed at great length on reddit etc., but): In an earlier episode, HQ realised Dolores had deviated quite far from her loop and sent someone out to grab her (which was stopped by William coming out of a saloon or something). In HQ, Luke Hemsworth's character (blonde security dude or whatever he is) is. This appears to be part of the same timeline, and I know we've seen that guy in the supposed "present". Could be that he is also a host, though.

[Miriel]

This show is really really good.

[Jinx]

Ok, well here it is for those interested:

The William/Delores storyline is actually in the past and Ed Harris is actually William in the present. The existence of robots who don't age actually makes playing with time rather easy!

This theory actually makes a LOT of sense.

The picture Logan showed William of his sister was the picture that Dolores' father found, except his was buried and faded. Also the fact that Logan--and thus William--have connections to the park, and Ed Harris is on the board. And it explains how Lawrence was basically in two places at once--in Pariah, and with Ed Harris/dead. And when Ed Harris mentions his dead wife, he says they were married 30 years, and he told Dolores in the first episode he'd been coming to Westworld for 30 years.

Also William went really smurfing psychotic there in the end, didn't he?

And when she runs away from the camp, her stab wound is gone.

If this theory is true--which the more I think about it the more convinced I am--I'm really, REALLY curious to see what happens next.

Anyways, I watch this entire show over the last 24 hours. I was hooked within 10 minutes. Basically when Dolores wakes up and starts her day all over again.

[Jinx]

Ok, well here it is for those interested:

The William/Delores storyline is actually in the past and Ed Harris is actually William in the present. The existence of robots who don't age actually makes playing with time rather easy!

This theory actually makes a LOT of sense.

The picture Logan showed William of his sister was the picture that Dolores' father found, except his was buried and faded. Also the fact that Logan--and thus William--have connections to the park, and Ed Harris is on the board. And it explains how Lawrence was basically in two places at once--in Pariah, and with Ed Harris/dead. And when Ed Harris mentions his dead wife, he says they were married 30 years, and he told Dolores in the first episode he'd been coming to Westworld for 30 years.

Also William went really smurfing psychotic there in the end, didn't he?

And when she runs away from the camp, her stab wound is gone.

If this theory is true--which the more I think about it the more convinced I am--I'm really, REALLY curious to see what happens next.

Anyways, I watch this entire show over the last 24 hours. I was hooked within 10 minutes. Basically when Dolores wakes up and starts her day all over again.

FUCK FUCK

AND where they keep the decommissioned robots is in the OLD ENTRANCE to Westworld--the one that we see William and Logan entering.

Dude, this theory

[Jinx]

That was really, really satisfying to watch.

Also, Hector is my bae.

[Shaibana]

Ok, well here it is for those interested:

The William/Delores storyline is actually in the past and Ed Harris is actually William in the present. The existence of robots who don't age actually makes playing with time rather easy!

aw snap! you called it!

did you guess that or did you actually know it?

very satsifying season end indeed. im very curious where this is going

[Del Murder]

Haha, no I don't know anyone at HBO or anything. There were some hints that this was the case. I think a lot of people suspected it. Also full credit for this goes to Miriel since she originally brought it up.

Explosive end to an explosive first season. I'm a little concerned that they are going with a fairly generic angle but I'm excited to see what twist the plan to put on it.

[Jinx]

The more I think about the finale, the more unhappy I am. I mean, don't get me wrong, I thought it was BRILLIANT story-telling and I enjoyed it a lot. And I was still satisfied with the Red Board Meeting and the rising of the robot army but my heart is breaking that William is indeed the Man in Black. Sweet William, darling Jimmi Simpson becomes the evilest fucker on the show and torments the woman he once loved. I hate it. :(

[Rantz]

Great finale!

[Psychotic]

Wow. Fucking wow.
but my heart is breaking that William is indeed the Man in Black. Sweet William, darling Jimmi Simpson becomes the evilest fucker on the show and torments the woman he once loved. I hate it. :(No, that's the beauty of it. Just one more victim of Westworld. These violent delights have violent ends.

[Shaibana]

Wow. smurfing wow.
but my heart is breaking that William is indeed the Man in Black. Sweet William, darling Jimmi Simpson becomes the evilest smurfer on the show and torments the woman he once loved. I hate it. :(No, that's the beauty of it. Just one more victim of Westworld. These violent delights have violent ends.

doesnt make it less sad :( (young) william was such a sweetheart!!

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a4Zz0Zv_700b.jpg

[Miriel]

Haha, no I don't know anyone at HBO or anything. There were some hints that this was the case. I think a lot of people suspected it. Also full credit for this goes to Miriel since she originally brought it up.

Explosive end to an explosive first season. I'm a little concerned that they are going with a fairly generic angle but I'm excited to see what twist the plan to put on it.

I had an inkling that there were multiple timelines going on a few episodes in, but still early on in the season.

And what was really interesting about the experience of watching this show was the for the first time in a LONG time, I didn't go online to read any theories or read recaps or analysis of the show as it was airing. I mean, that's the kind of stuff I loved doing since the days of Lost, and most recently, I'd been doing it a lot with Mr. Robot.

But once I got the sense that there was a lot going on in the show and that it was kind of a puzzle with layers revealing itself, I backed off totally and tried to go into this completely spoiler free. I avoided almost all discussions about this, except for with Del Murder, just guessing out loud while watching the show.

I gotta say, it was really really enjoyable watching it this way, without having a bunch of theories and whatnot jangling around in my head. It's similar to how I went into the movie Arrival. I knew next to nothing about the movie, and getting to actually experience the revelations as they came was really wonderful.

I really really loved how densely the show packed in the plot, and yet pretty masterfully revealed everything and also tied up a lot of loose ends, while still leaving a ton of questions for season 2. Really remarkable stuff. And the acting on this show is phenomenal. Nearly every single person on this show is doing great work. Anthony Hopkins of course and Evan Rachel Wood, but huge shoutout to Thandie Newton as Maeve. She's utterly riveting in every scene she's in.

Also, Felix doing little robot motions with his arms when he starts questioning his own humanness was the most adorable thing ever.

[Shaibana]

i really hate spoilers etc. so i do not search for any theories.
ive seen the internet explode with GoT theories and so far ive managed to scroll them away before reading anything at all.

i dont hear anything about westworld at all tho :o

Movie trailers reveal so muhc these days that you've seen the entire movie after 2 trailers. so i'm not watching more then 1 trailer xD

[Freya]

OH man I can't wait to actually read through this thread. We're on episode 5 now. Slow going in the Freya house hold but I am so enthralled. It's so original. I have no idea where it's going. Hector is :3 though. I know him from other things but I can't put my finger on it. I'm very pleased with this show and ashamed I didn't start it right away. at least i'm not SUPER behind by a year. I hear season 2 wont be until 2018 :(

EDIT: HECTOR IS XERXES IN 300!

[Shaibana]

:(

EDIT: HECTOR IS XERXES IN 300!

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Surprised-Koala.jpg

[Freya]

Oh all the music is now on Spotify today! (https://play.spotify.com/album/2poAUFGkHetMzM4xzLBVhY)

[Jinx]

WOOT THANKS FOR SHARING FREYA

I need that Exit in my life yesterday


also this

VXQ512JgDbw

[Shaibana]

jfc, jinx.... jfc xD

[Bubba]

Finally finished this series tonight so I can finally read this smurfing thread.

You guys are awesome. Loved reading all your theories and discussions. I didn't care for Psy's robotic penis reveal... but I did have my suspicions.

Looking forward to forgetting everything that has just happened over the course of the next 15 months until season 2 starts.

[Freya]

Yeah We finally finished this so I just read through the whole thread. Some of you were spot on in guessing!

I'm curious though about a few things:

Was the Maeve getting off the train programmed? She was apparently programmed to break out.
Who was the Board lady and the jerk writer dude trying to get the info to? It wouldn't be the board since they just got control of the park.
Why have bernard lead Theresa to find things out and then kill her? If he was planning on wiping out the board, why not wait a few days for her? Was that just to make bernard suffer more?
What actually happened to Logan?
It showed "the man in black" get shot only in the arm, is he alive??
Who were the previous hosts who "went insane"? Is this what happened to Dolores' dad?
What was with the Samurai Hosts? "it's complicated"
The note Maeve had said her daughter was in Park 1, there are more parks? Is the Samurai one?
Is Stubbs (Luke hemsworth) alive? Is Elsie alive?

A lot of this will be answered int the future. But that all came to mind for me.

[Del Murder]

I think we are still meant to speculate how much of what Maeve does is programmed and how much isn't. It's possible they'll keep that vague for the whole series since that is really the core theme of the series.

The Samurais were definitely meant to imply multiple parks. How much we will ever see of feudal Japan park is anyone's guess, but considering the bias against casting a ton of Asians in lead roles, probably not much (I bet it's much cooler than Westworld though).

Elsie is probably dead, Luke Hemsworth who knows (and who cares), and Man In Black is most certainly alive. Half of season 1 was his backstory, they aren't just going to kill him like that.

[Freya]

What would Samurai world be called? Please not Asiaworld.

[Slothy]

Japan world? Edoworld? Land of the rising sun? Overrated (but gorgeous) sword place?

[Jinx]

Considering it was called SW--probably Samurai World. (East World would've been better, imo.)

[Freya]

Considering it was called SW--probably Samurai World. (East World would've been better, imo.)
Ohhhh Yeahhhhh that was a thing, the SW

[Rantz]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this theory before, but I think Luke Hemsworth is probably fine due to being a host. He was the one ordering someone to go fetch Dolores from the town when young William came outside to say that she's with him, and he looked exactly the same back then.

[Freya]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this theory before, but I think Luke Hemsworth is probably fine due to being a host. He was the one ordering someone to go fetch Dolores from the town when young William came outside to say that she's with him, and he looked exactly the same back then.

Wait.... what? I missed that!

[Rantz]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this theory before, but I think Luke Hemsworth is probably fine due to being a host. He was the one ordering someone to go fetch Dolores from the town when young William came outside to say that she's with him, and he looked exactly the same back then.

Wait.... what? I missed that!

I just googled to see if I could find a video for reference, but apparently the argument has been made that it's ambiguous because present Dolores is travelling along the same route that she did with William, and in the next episode present Dolores *has* been pulled and is interviewed by Ford (who then presumably tells Stubbs nothing is wrong with her and sends her back on her solo adventure because he needs her there for his "new story"). So it may possibly have been just a manoeuvre to make the timeline stuff non-obvious.

[Jinx]

It was definitely just editing. Especially because he asks, "Is she traveling with someone?" and the person responds that it's unclear.

[Shaibana]

here are my thoughts on a couple of those questions:

Was the Maeve getting off the train programmed? She was apparently programmed to break out.
i dont believe the robots have a true free will. Meave´s breakout was programmed and planned, im sure her return is the same (tho i dont see for what purpose)

What actually happened to Logan?
he probably went home (with William). the picture does reveal that William married his sister.

It showed "the man in black" get shot only in the arm, is he alive??
i do think so, i'm pretty sure we are not yet done with William

Who were the previous hosts who "went insane"? Is this what happened to Dolores' dad?
yes, along with some other characters i cant name, they went insane and got shut down (the naked robots in the basement)

What was with the Samurai Hosts? "it's complicated"
perhaps a new park, 'eastworld'.. new stage, new stories :3 i would love to see that

The note Maeve had said her daughter was in Park 1, there are more parks? Is the Samurai one?
its 1 big park, but 'park 1' refers to a section

Is Stubbs (Luke hemsworth) alive? Is Elsie alive?
most likely. no, Bernard killed her, they showed that when Ford told Bernard that he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnbyQ0g9c4

[Freya]

The note Maeve had said her daughter was in Park 1, there are more parks? Is the Samurai one?
its 1 big park, but 'park 1' refers to a section

Is Stubbs (Luke hemsworth) alive? Is Elsie alive?
most likely. no, Bernard killed her, they showed that when Ford told Bernard that he did
No.

Park 1 Sector 15 Zone 3 is what the note said, park 1 is not the section, sector and zone would be sections.

And apparently in true ARG fashion...

She may not be.

They were able to find a secret page on the westworld website

https://i0.wp.com/media2.slashfilm.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/elsie-is-alive-westworld-700x533.jpg

That showed her ping location and an audio file of her voice saying "Hello? (http://delosincorporated.com/assets/transmission.mp4)" Apparently Ford never confirmed if he killed her to bernard. They showed him grab her, but not kill her. Elsie and Stubbs may still be alive and kept out of the way for the uprising.

In fact the website has a lot of crazy stuff happening to it. Apparently in-world, there is no more reservations being taken and the place is shut down. So :monster:

Looks like to fill the space between the seasons, since it wont be back until 2018, they're having fun with some ARG! Here's a site going over some of it! (http://www.slashfilm.com/westworld-year-is-elsie-alive/)


The Discover Westworld website (https://www.discoverwestworld.com/) has also been updated. We are now greeted with an incredibly distorted video image of William saying, “Your world was built for me. People like me, not for you.” And Dolores is answering, “Then someone better burn it clean.”

[Jinx]

There's actually a definitive answer about Maeve getting off the train (given by the show writers), but I won't say what it is...PM me if you want to know!

[Freya]

phFM3V_dors

[Jinx]

2018 COULD MEAN SO MANY THINGS

WHEN IN 2018, HBO

ARE WE TALKING JANUARY

JUNE

DECEMBER

BE MORE SPECIFIC YOU TWATS

[Shaibana]

OMG YEEAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!
2018 tho :l we're almost there but it could be so fucking far away!
THE HUNT IS OOOOONNNN

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

I finally binged this over the past few days. I've had my eyes on it since release, but in the past few years I've only gotten HBO when Game of Thrones comes back on the air, so I took this opportunity to watch what I've been missing out on.

If I would have known just how much I'd love this show, I probably would have watched it sooner. But in a way, I'm glad I waited so long because it means I don't have to wait as long as everyone else for next season.

[Freya]

Still gotta wait a whole year though :monster:

[Bubba]

Congrats to all the waiters

[Jinx]

Still gotta wait a whole year though :monster:

we don't know that for sure!!!!!

[Psychotic]

Yeah see the thing about that is that you still got in on the ground floor. I started watching The Walking Dead in Season 5, marathoned it, and now it seems half my life is spent waiting for it to come back so I can complain about how it's now rubbish.

[Bubba]

I'm still not up-to-date with TWD.

Started watching an episode the other night night and I literally care about nobody. It was only mildly interesting because I realised one of the actors in it used to be in charge of CTU in the first two seasons of 24.

I can wait for Westworld.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

I thought it was cool the way they did the man in black identity reveal, but a part of me will always be sad that Dolores and young William didn't get to ride off into the sunset together.

Whoever said Hector is the best was right, too. Look at this man.

73257


Still gotta wait a whole year though :monster:

Don't rain on my parade.


Yeah see the thing about that is that you still got in on the ground floor. I started watching The Walking Dead in Season 5, marathoned it, and now it seems half my life is spent waiting for it to come back so I can complain about how it's now rubbish.

The biggest heartbreak there is you started watching a show during the last season that was actually really good.

The last 2 seasons have been fair to middling at best. Imagine having to wait week to week during the height of the season 3 governor arc, when people were actually at the edge of their seats.

Okay I know this is the Westworld thread, but we've got some time to kill so i'm cool with co-opting it.

[Jinx]

THAT WAS PROBABLY ME, HECTOR IS MY FAVORITE OKAY THANK YOU AND I ASSURE YOU IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS HANDSOMENESS AND SWAGGER NO SIR

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

73258

[Shaibana]

73258

dang.. stupid robots >:(

[Freya]

New Trailer at the Super Bowl

qUmfriZoMw0

[Jinx]

Apparently none of what's in that trailer will be in the actual show! They filmed random shit to hide spoilers. xD

[Freya]

Apparently none of what's in that trailer will be in the actual show! They filmed random trout to hide spoilers. xD

What, really? Wow

Apparently someone did find something in Binary though and it led to a website? yay more AR games! The site is "http://delosdestinations.com/" and it shows there are 6 parks but the thing is glitching out! SIX parks! Wonder what they could be

[CimminyCricket]

I saw my first teaser for it and despite never having watched a single episode, I'm kind of pumped.

[Freya]

Oh cimmy! You definitely should check the show out. Luckily you won't have to wait like everyone else ha. By the time you finish the first the second season should be out!

[Freya]

There was another trailer!

sjVqDg32_8s

[Jinx]

i came

[Freya]

There's a hidden commercial/trailer people found on their website. (http://www.delosincorporated.com/freedom/)

[Jinx]

I just closely rewatched the trailer. Things I noticed: sexy Jimmi Simpson William in a black suit with Dolores, what LOOKS like her talking to a young William and threatening him (but I don't think that's right, I think that's a red herring, as Teddy is with her and she's in her battle outfit), the Ghost Nation picking up Logan after William sent him off, Ford's mini-me clearly dead, not just Dolores escaping the park, but Teddy too (dressed as a security guard? cop?). I think the conversation playing over with her and Arnold is meant as a misdirection, as it plays over what's happening with Bernard. I think Elsie is the only one who knew Bernard is a host (I assume, if he killed her or just incapacitated her), but it seems like Stubbs trusts him. He might be working on the inside, but he might also be a double agent, as he didn't suffer the same way at the hands of the humans, and had relationships with them.

ugh 12 days

[Psychotic]

I'm genuinely interested to see how they handle the time jump this season, and if and when the two points in time converge. I don't want to lose either Jimmi Simpson or Ed Harris from the cast, they're both excellent.

[Jinx]

I'm genuinely interested to see how they handle the time jump this season, and if and when the two points in time converge. I don't want to lose either Jimmi Simpson or Ed Harris from the cast, they're both excellent.

In the trailer Jimmi Simpson and the guy who play Logan both show up. William is in a suave suit with a haircut, so it implies that it follows from when Logan was discovered and William's take over of Delos. I'm glad, becaue I love Jimmi Simpson and was sad before when they said he wasn't coming back for season 2. I'm glad they changed their mind, even if his part in Dolores' story is over, mostly. I'm sure they could show more of their past interactions.

[Formalhaut]

I haven't seen Westworld at all! I really should get to that, I hear it's amazing. I saw the trailer for season 2 actually in cinema and it looks impressive.

[Jinx]

I haven't seen Westworld at all! I really should get to that, I hear it's amazing. I saw the trailer for season 2 actually in cinema and it looks impressive.

It's, hands down, the best dramatic and best sci-fi show I've ever watched. Knowing how critical I am, believe me when I say it's absolutely excellent.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

Welcome back, y'all.

Hector's my favorite smoldering cowboy so here's that picture again for no reason.


73257


Last summer Freya said I would have to wait a whole year for this show to come back. She was wrong and I feel great about that.

[Freya]

You are like a month shy of summer, don't even.

So the new episode was really long and pretty and I have lots of thoughts but I still love maeve

[Jinx]

I'm looking less forward to this season if it's going to be The Bernard Show. I like his actor, but don't care for the character.

I'm intrigued by the ending, though!

[Psychotic]

Wow, the tone has dramatically shifted. Season 1 was all about reality, identity and what it means to be human. This is just out and out survival horror and it's almost like a new twist on the zombie genre. It is kind of scary and unlike last season it's a lot harder to root for the hosts. They built Wyatt up to be this big scary sociopath and he, or rather, she, did not disappoint.

[Loony BoB]

Time for Teddy to be the hero he always wanted to be?

I'm also really curious for what the crap happened with the chief of security. Last we saw he was getting surrounded by the enemy and looked to be a goner. Yet here we see him absolutely fine, and we have no details as to how he got out of that situation...

I agree that I'm finding it hard to root for the hosts this time. I'm interested in seeing where we go this season and how the other parks will impact things though. I'm also interested to see how the outside world can be impacted by all of this if they truly can't leave the park. How can they get around that? Is there anyone besides Maeve that has the technological understanding, and how fast can they pick up on that stuff and 'fly' with it?

I agree that Bernard at present is getting tiring, too. I hope he moves forward a little bit faster than he did in today's episode.

[Jinx]

I'm okay with not knowing what happened to Stubbs just yet (and for that matter, Elsie) as the Stubbs/Bernard timeline is meant to be taking place about 12 days after the Charlotte/Bernard timeline. We'll find out more soon.

I'm still Team Hosts, although I feel they're a lot more morally grey! I read something on Reddit that as of right now just Dolores and Maeve are awoken (and I'm inclined to agree) which makes their retribution seem a little harder to justify--but still pretty damn justifiable.

I think it's more about the ethics of someone like William vs. just random people. It'd essentially be like characters of a video game coming to life and murdering all of us. We've all done terrible, horrible things to video game characters--sometimes just because we can (looking at you GTA)--because we know they aren't sentient and there are no repercussions. That's probably how many, most of the guests at West World felt.

I don't feel bad for the board members being murdered, though.

[Freya]

I really think that maybe, stubbs is a host now. I think they were taking DNA from people and yeah I think Stubbs is a Host! In the last time feature thing it showed him getting taken by those native hosts. Then that was who was dead but he didn't seem to mention that at all. Where has he been!? He's a host, I'm calling it.

[Jinx]

I think what makes me more inclined to still side with the hosts is that the things that have happened to them are utterly barbaric. Remember, they have total recall of everything. They never lose any detail to what they experience, to the point that those who are self-aware (Dolores, Maeve, now Bernard as he becomes independent) struggle to remember when they are.

So that poor girl who has been raped and murdered for 30 years, you know what? She gets a pass, and I get why she's angry. And why it's too late to say sorry.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

You are like a month shy of summer, don't even.

Are there words there?

It doesn't look like anything to me. :roll:

[Psychotic]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pass a moral judgment on the hosts. They are the products of their environment and they don't know any differently than death and murder But I didn't cheer when they got killed and I'm not cheering when they kill either. I guess it's just sad that once they got their sentience all they want is revenge.

On one hand the Board is an easy enemy to not feel empathy for, those rich corporate assholes! But how much do any of them really know about the hosts? They strike me as just thinking they're fancy cowboy robots who have high level tech in them. I bet very few of them ever go into the park or have any idea what goes on there. How far do you take their culpability for the hell that Ford built?

[Loony BoB]

If you're looking for any "bad guy" in all of this, it's whoever designed them to keep their memories in any shape or form whatsoever. So, in that regard, it's the designers who are at fault for what is going on. Arnold and Ford. If they discovered that hosts were retaining memories or even designed them to, then they should have pulled the plug at that point (by which I mean, on them being treated as robots). If they were stopped from doing so, then the people who stopped them are also at fault. In this case, I wonder how much the board knew about that.

[Jinx]

If you're looking for any "bad guy" in all of this, it's whoever designed them to keep their memories in any shape or form whatsoever. So, in that regard, it's the designers who are at fault for what is going on. Arnold and Ford. If they discovered that hosts were retaining memories or even designed them to, then they should have pulled the plug at that point (by which I mean, on them being treated as robots). If they were stopped from doing so, then the people who stopped them are also at fault. In this case, I wonder how much the board knew about that.


...that's literally what Arnold tried to do. He both tried to convince Ford to shut down the park, and then uploaded the Wyatt narrative to Dolores so she'd massacre all of the hosts AND Arnold--and actual human--to show they were dangerous. Arnold never intended or thought they'd be brought back and the park would still open; he was convinced his death would be enough to ruin them. And it did. Which was why Logan and William came to the park and Delos invested.

Or did you not watch season 1? xD

[Loony BoB]

I think there's still a bit more to the entire Arnold thing than we've seen, but also feel that Arnold could absolutely (and very easily) have gone about things a different way than he did and he is responsible for the consequences of his dramatic actions over more sensible ones, such as public statements etc.

Blame is definitely primarily with Ford though, and anyone else who may have known.

[Jinx]

He was very clear that the reason he chose to do it that way was because the world wouldn't have been able to see their humanity. Maybe he didn't give them the benefit, but like I said earlier--do we believe that video game characters are alive? Or that creepy ass Sophia robot? No, of course we don't. And if someone came to you and said that they had proof they were (regardless of whether or not it's true, and let's for the sake of discussion say in this scenario it is, and they do have proof), you would most likely think they were stark raving mad. I know I would.

It looks like we're getting more Dolores and Arnold flashbacks this season, and possibly we will even get scenes of Arnold alone. But based on everything I've seen, I'm willing to consider Arnold as benevolent. Especially considering why he threw himself into the project--at worst, it was to find a way to bring his son back to life. Flawed, sure, but not evil in any way. He showed he truly came to care for Dolores, knowing she was showing the capability to be alive. She wasn't there yet, but he knew she could, and eventually would be. And same for all of the hosts.

But Ford? Smurf Ford. Even his reasoning for why he did what he did is flawed. They hosts didn't need to experience pain and torment to gain sentience, as is shown that Dolores started achieving it not long after being made.*


*I still love him because Anthony Hopkins, but the fucker was evil.

[Psychotic]

On that note, what was Ford's deal? The first season gave the impression that Arnold had planted a seed of rebellion in the hosts and Ford was trying to suppress it, only for the finale and the season opener with Little Robert to make it quite clear that no, Ford wanted this too. He wanted sentience and he wanted a massacre. Is it just as simple as his final monologue of wanting to be remembered as Beethoven or Mozart with this his finest work? A sort of "Look, I created sentience, aren't I a literal god?" message?

Either way, Little Robert and whatever terraforming he was doing (whether it was this new sea or whether someone else did that, he was clearly making a canyon at the very least for his new narrative) show he had some greater plan for the current turmoil.

[Bubba]

Some of the characters in Westworld are humans whilst others are actually robots.

[Freya]

So these dumbasses have been talking in front of delores about all the things. Ha they deserve this.

Maeve being done with Delores shit though was great

[Psychotic]

I'm just glad the William/Lawrence bromance/servitude thing is back on. Can't wait 'til Lawrence becomes sentient!

Also, Gus Fring. Huh. Still as creepy as ever.

Also also, Sizemore is the comedic heart and soul of this show. He didn't even have a line this week and he still got a laugh out of me.

[Jinx]

Also laughed at Sizemore. Rob asked why and I rewound it to show him. He was on screen for 2 seconds and I belly laughed at him.

And YAS I was so excited about William and Lawrence meeting up. Lawrence is my favorite secondary character. I'm scared he'll be killed off if he stays with William, though.

So I mentioned it on Reddit and it sparked a discussion sort of: Charlie didn't die before Westworld opened. That changes EVERYTHING about Arnold's motives for creating Westworld, and not only do I want to know Delos' true intentions, but Arnold and Ford's original intention for opening the park. My guess is that Charlie was still sick at the time, and the theories of transferring consciousness into host bodies was the goal. Especially when Daddy Delos tells William that it "won't be done in time for [him]".

EDIT: When I say "opened", I mean that Westworld was already being created before Charlie died. Not the official park opening that came after Wyatt's massacre.

[Loony BoB]

Wait, when was Sizemore on? What happened? I hate it when I miss stuff. xD

[Psychotic]

He was with Maeve and Hector, dressed in a dorky little cowboy outfit and holding a donkey. (https://i.redd.it/pk7uzr1xnyu01.png)

[Bubba]

I was really pleased to see Peter Mullan in a role. He’s an awesome actor.

[Jinx]

Am I the only one here who somehow thinks that Maeve is going to end up pregnant? Idk dude, I can't shake that feeling. I don't know HOW but.

Also, Tiger Woman is Emily. Calling it now.

I'm loving the Maeve/Hector romance, though.

[Psychotic]

I can see it happening with Maeve. The opening titles are something of a clue.

Teddy is waking up too, sucks to be you, Wyatt.

[Loony BoB]

Teddy is probably going to wind up being my fave character at this rate, I can see it happening.

[Jinx]

One popular theory going around is that Dolores isn't sentient, all of her actions are just acting out the Wyatt narrative. Whereas, Teddy directly defying her orders actually IS him becoming sentient.

And thank you, Psy. That's my biggest tinfoil theory for this season.

[Freya]

Is Emily, Williams daughter? Cause that's who I think that lady is.

[Bubba]

One popular theory going around is that Dolores isn't sentient, all of her actions are just acting out the Wyatt narrative. Whereas, Teddy directly defying her orders actually IS him becoming sentient.

Oooh I like this theory. Especially given the u-turn they've done with her character this series. I totally get why she would be this vindictive if she can remember everything because that is just horrific. I just find it difficult to see her as such a polar opposite of season 1 Delores when I was really rooting for her.

Maeve is still my favourite character. Her sentience seems a bit more measured and believable. The baby thing makes sense because I noticed the change in the credits too, as well as her still hung up on her old daughter. It just seems a bit unlikely her actually becoming pregnant? Maybe it's just a hint towards her maternal instincts developing in her character as opposed to her physically getting pregnant? IDK.

Emily being William's daughter is a good shout. Considering she shot the guy at the start before jumping him... can definitely see her being related to old William xD

[Jinx]

Like I said, Maeve getting pregnant is tinfoil, but I'm sticking by it. We all need one tinfoil theory. You'll see who's laughing when she's pushing a watermelon out of her ass!

[Bubba]

You'll see who's laughing when she's pushing a watermelon out of her ass!

See that is more believable than Maeve having a baby.

[Loony BoB]

While I can see Maeve perhaps getting pregnant, it would be kind of bizarre if they actually designed their hosts to have that capability. Who would be the father? If it's a fellow host, does that mean every male host the female guests have sex with could get them pregnant, too? It doesn't seem to make sense. Effectively while I can see it happening, it would break a bit of immersion for me, I'd feel like they put it in 100% for the surprise with 0% thought towards good story.

[Jinx]

Tbf, BoB, there are times I'm not sure you even know what's going on in the story. ;)

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD HAPPEN ONLY THAT I THINK IT WILL AND THE MORE I'M TOLD IT'S CRAZY THE HARDER I'M DIGGING MY HEELS IN

[Freya]

Also, Tiger Woman is Emily. Calling it now.



Is Emily, Williams daughter? Cause that's who I think that lady is.

I've seen people calling Tiger woman, Grace? Not sure where this is coming from

[Jinx]

Also, Tiger Woman is Emily. Calling it now.



Is Emily, Williams daughter? Cause that's who I think that lady is.

I've seen people calling Tiger woman, Grace? Not sure where this is coming from

It says it on imdb, but I'm not calling her Grace until her name is said that in-show.

[Loony BoB]

Tbf, BoB, there are times I'm not sure you even know what's going on in the story. ;)

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD HAPPEN ONLY THAT I THINK IT WILL AND THE MORE I'M TOLD IT'S CRAZY THE HARDER I'M DIGGING MY HEELS IN
I mean the obvious person is Hector, but I'm just wondering if you were thinking it would be him because then it leads to the possibility of hosts making guests preggo. I'm not that oblivious. :( I still don't think it's a crazy theory. I just think it'd be a stretch on the writer's part, but we all know such stretches are very common if it makes good entertainment (and I'm generally okay with that).

[Bubba]

I still don't think it's a crazy theory.

I do. Hector hasn’t developed robosperm and Maeve hasn’t eggceded the boundaries of her preset functionality.

Dig your heels in all you like, Jinx. It ain’t gonna happen :D

[Jinx]

ROBOBABY WATCH 2k18

[Jinx]

I knew she was Emily.

Also, I said to Rob while watching; the goal of the Maze is for hosts to gain a soul, the goal of the Door is for William to gain one.

[Psychotic]

Yeah, despite his protestations to Creepy Villager Girl afterwards, William clearly had some sense of empathy to Lawrence and his family and that's the first thing he's felt for any host since OG Dolores.

A really good episode, maybe the best yet. That was like some Black Mirror trout that they did with JD, nice take on immortality through tech. Good to have Elsie back, and smurf knows what is happening with Bernard.

[Jinx]

Yeah, despite his protestations to Creepy Villager Girl afterwards, William clearly had some sense of empathy to Lawrence and his family and that's the first thing he's felt for any host since OG Dolores.

A really good episode, maybe the best yet. That was like some Black Mirror trout that they did with JD, nice take on immortality through tech. Good to have Elsie back, and smurf knows what is happening with Bernard.


I think part of why William was sympathetic to Lawrence is that Lawrence REMEMBERED him. In this adventure, William has never mentioned a daughter. But Lawrence remembered that he'd told him about Emily at some point.

[Bubba]

Yeah, I really enjoyed seeing Elsie again. Other than that it was just an uncomfortable watch. I completely agree with the Black Mirror parallel. The scene with Ed Harris in the bar was just fantastic. Most of everything else didn’t sit well with me. I don’t think I’m as invested as I was with the first season. I kinda like having someone to root for and I’m not really rooting for anyone at the minute. Maybe Maeve... and now Elsie.

[Jinx]

I thought this episode was great, at this season is finally starting to pick up a real narrative (as I knew it would). I'm okay with not rooting for anyone, personally, and that's not really what this show is about. I AM rooting for Maeve, though, even though I think her story is going to end in heartbreak.

[Bubba]

Oh I know that’s not what the show is about. Like I said, I just kinda like to root for someone. There are still some amazing characters in the show. The majority have got multiple levels to their personalities which can be difficult to achieve. The characterisation is fantastic.

[Freya]

Was just able to watch it last night. I knew it was Emily!

And yeah I think he helped and had empathy for Lawrence because yeah he remembered. It makes me wonder how many adventures Lawrence has gone on with him, really.

Elsie being back is great. I was like "YEAH! IT'S ELSIE!" I loved her character. Also Stubbs was captured at one point with emily? What happened with him to get him to the beach? Where is elsie in the future timeline? SO MANY QUESTIONS

[Psychotic]

How long was Elsie out there? She looked pretty damn well!

[Jinx]

How long was Elsie out there? She looked pretty damn well!

Probably only a few days, yeah? The first season only takes place over maybe a week, probably less, it just seems like longer because of how it's laid out. I doubt she's been out there for longer than 5 days.

[Bubba]

I actually googled-image searched... “Westworld Elsie with a long, grey beard”

Disappointing

[Jinx]

here's your chance to make it yourself

[Bubba]

here's your chance to make it yourself

I am armed only with my phone.

[Freya]

How long was Elsie out there? She looked pretty damn well!

Read somewhere where someone noticed the dates in the first series vs this one, first season was only 14 days. And the two time lines here are another 14 days apart (right after the shooting of the board and the beach scene)

[Del Murder]

Why did he keep remaking the old man? Who would want to help that guy live forever? Also if you were going to make yourself into a robot, why not make yourself look younger?

This episode was interesting, but it didn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Jinx]

Why did he keep remaking the old man? Who would want to help that guy live forever? Also if you were going to make yourself into a robot, why not make yourself look younger?

This episode was interesting, but it didn't make a lot of sense to me.

The appearance thing I thought too! I'd so much rather go back to when I was young and hot than have to live as I am now, or as an older version of me from the future, FOREVER.

He kept remaking him because 1. he was paid and 2. it was interesting and groundbreaking work, I assume. Wouldn't you keep trying just because you could, if you were that close?

[Raistlin]

I think the rationalization for the appearance thing is that they didn't want the robot version to know it was a robot until they revealed that fact to him (though the TV reason being that they didn't want the audience to know at first either). William mentioned that there were issues with the mind or body rejecting itself (they weren't sure exactly why), and maybe being in a body exactly how you remembered your body being was supposed to help that. And once they mastered that sort of consciousness-transfer, I assume they could create other, younger or entirely different bodies ad infinitum.

As far as William's motivation, it was basically the old man's reason to leave the company to him. And even beyond that, I'm sure William considered it an interesting experiment with far-reaching consequences if they succeeded.

[Psychotic]

I also got the impression that there was a fondness for Delos from William. At least until he became Ed Harris.

[Loony BoB]

I think Raistlin has the best justification, and there's perhaps also the fact that should things work out and he become a "real person" and be released to own the park as an immortal ghost-in-the-shell, then the public - notably grandchildren etc - would probably be more likely to accept him if he looked the way he did when they last saw him. As for Delos opting for this in his own mind, I can understand it... so long as I were fit and healthy and capable of quick movement (which a robot body would provide and he was demonstrating with the exercise bike), I don't think I'd care if I had my greys etc. I have grey hairs now and I embrace them as part of who I am. Delos strikes me as that kind of guy - someone who has no interest in being a young kid, but rather has pride in who he is and how he got there.

As for nobody to root for, I'm rooting for the following: Teddy, Laurence, William. Somewhat Maeve but we'll see. I still have an interest in Elsie and Stubbs, and hope to see more of them and for them to do well, and as for a "bad guy" type, I'm still interested in how things roll with Hale.

[Del Murder]

I'm rooting for the Asian character they hopefully pick up in Samurai world rather than just killing them all as extras.

[Bubba]

Getting a bit bored now tbh :shrug:

[Psychotic]

I'm noticing a lot of people peeling away from Westworld this season, yeah. It used to be the hot office topic when season 1 was out, but people have stopped watching or slowly getting bored. That's what a loss of Anthony Hopkins will do for a show!

I liked Shogunworld though tbh and Sizemore was as always a delight.

[Loony BoB]

I don't think it's so much about Anthony Hopkins popping out, it's more what people have said earlier - the lack of people to root for. I was rarely rooting for Ford. But many of us enjoyed rooting for young William, waiting to find out who the man in black was, seeing the behind-the-scenes factory areas being utilised, the romance offered by Dolores, the whodunnit-ness of things... this season has been lacking in most of these areas. Maeve is awake now but the fascination of her becoming self-aware is gone and we won't get that back too soon. Instead we have her chasing off after her daughter, but it seems to have too many distractions with little progress so we end up having "bit part" episodes like the one just now featuring Sakura. Dolores going badass also leaves too little of interest for many as we no longer have the wonder, just the war. I think the enjoyment in the first season was mostly surrounding the birthing of the situation, but now that we have reached that point we're not sure if they can give us anything that will match it. I almost wish that the final season ended in a reboot of the systems and then we start over.

I'm still really enjoying the William + Laurence episodes and have hope Maeve will get somewhere soon. I have a lot of interest in what will come next but I'm not sure I'll have as much interest at the end of the season. This will likely not be a Game of Thrones, but it could still hold me as long as Lost (watched the whole thing). Let's just hope it won't be another Heroes (gave up on second season).

I feel like I'll enjoy things a lot more if we can get a bit more innocence back into the show. We had good guys before, just trying to make their way through. It seems everyone is a badass these days and it can be tiring.

[Bubba]

I'm not sure they quite know which direction to take the show. Sophie said last night and I agree, that it feels like they've just thrown a load of different ideas at the show and are hoping it works. It just seems very messy at the minute with the multiple story arcs. There isn't a strong central story keeping everything together like season 1. I think the introduction of 'Eastworld' could have worked but I ended up not caring about it. The Eastern version of Paint it Black was great though.

I'll stick with it, I'm still intrigued enough to find out what happens. The same can't be said for The Walking Dead. I'm literally an entire season behind and I don't care :lol:

[Jinx]

I'm okay with this season going slower, because I know everything's going to fit together like a puzzle rather than a linear narrative. Even less so than last year's season.

I'm still enjoying the shit out of myself, but fuck Dolores/Wyatt. Both despicable and boring.

I think what people are truly unhappy about is there's less mystery to be solved this season. Oh, I'm sure there's so much we don't know that they'll reveal, but the story is much more straightforward. Even Bernard's stuff, with its timeskips.

[Del Murder]

Loved the Paint it Black remix. Other than that, I was also disappointed with Shogun World being too much of a Westworld copy. I hope Akane sticks with the group and develops her own personality independent of being Maeve rerun. Some of those seeds were planted.

Maeve was awesome in this episode and has somewhat become the hero of this story. It's just too bad that her storyline is weak.

I'm starting to care less and less about Delores/Wyatt. Not cool what she did to Teddy. Preaching free will then not allowing him to have it himself? Bad move, Delores.

[Psychotic]

On the subject of Shogunworld being a CTRL+C CTRL+V Westworld, I think Sizemore said that SW was a more extreme version of WW and I got the impression it was for people who were a little bored of WW. But surely as a product that's going to be the death of it. Oh look, it's the same shit you already got bored of but with a samurai flair. I get from a narrative perspective the point was to show the hosts their lives and stories really are meaningless, but the dork in me couldn't help but think it was a shoddy business practice.

[Del Murder]

Also, weren't there towns in Westworld that were already more hardcore than Sweetwater? Also also, you can make it so that host bullets can't kill guests but how do you make it so that some host swinging a sword at you doesn't cut your head off?

[Psychotic]

I've always wondered that when people used knives in WW too and the Ghost Nation and their melee weapons are another good example. Also, how do you have untrained guests able to slice through the flesh, blood and machine hosts using katanas and stuff? I mean, having them win a gun battle is one thing, but an actual honest to god sword duel? They'd be more likely to slice their own thumbs off. Though I guess you have to sign a troutload of waivers before being able to enter these parks.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

I'm not enjoying this season as much as I thought I would be. But I have still liked every episode so far, so I guess that's kind of a lame complaint.

[Jinx]

I AM rooting for Maeve, though, even though I think her story is going to end in heartbreak.

I hate that I called this. It ended exactly like I thought it would: her daughter has a new mother and doesn't remember her at all.

Also, we all knew Ford was "alive" some way. It makes sense the Cradle won't let them access or change code if Ford's LIVING in it, huh.

[Psychotic]

William to shoot his daughter because he's convinced she's a host. You like to do as you please with no consequences? Here's the ultimate consequence.

[Jinx]

William to shoot his daughter because he's convinced she's a host. You like to do as you please with no consequences? Here's the ultimate consequence.

I definitely see this happening.
\

[Mr Gashtacular]

although i dont think this season is as strong as the previous i am enjoying it all the same

theres a few things that feel like rushed side plots (maeve) that have grown pretty big and while i dont really see them as strong there is a lot of fun things happening so im giving it a pass


im hoping that ford is actually going to be in the show again and its not some cgi wank (i only saw his blurred reflection in the piano and it felt sketchy and wrong to me) so they dont have to pay anthony worral thompson to physically star in the show again. he is the best actor alive probably.

[Psychotic]

Lawrence though!

And Ford. Man has this show missed that bloke.

[Jinx]

Goddamn. This was the first episode this season where it left me wanting MORE. Ford is fucking evil, dude.

Also, I SCREAMED when Lawrence was shot. If he dies, it's really game over now.

I loved Dolores' side-eye in the Mesa, btw. Absolutely excellent.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, best episode of the season so far. Hopkins just nails it.

[Loony BoB]

Definitely the best episode this season. I'm not sure if Hopkins is the reason, though, which surprised me. The Hopkins stuff didn't interest me nearly as much as Dolores vs. Hale, Maeve vs. William, or the general progression we experienced. Hopkins being in there is a cherry on top no doubt, but the actual events were far more interesting than the return of a great actor/character, which is excellent news for the show.

Man, the time jumping back and forth a wee bit got me a little off guard at times though. Also, with a Westworld inside the Westworld, I wonder how much we're going to question what is real in this show. Inception levels of potential there...

[Bubba]

Definitely the best episode this season. I'm not sure if Hopkins is the reason, though, which surprised me. The Hopkins stuff didn't interest me nearly as much as Dolores vs. Hale, Maeve vs. William, or the general progression we experienced. Hopkins being in there is a cherry on top no doubt, but the actual events were far more interesting than the return of a great actor/character, which is excellent news for the show.

Man, the time jumping back and forth a wee bit got me a little off guard at times though. Also, with a Westworld inside the Westworld, I wonder how much we're going to question what is real in this show. Inception levels of potential there...

Yeah, I found this episode mega-confusing... specifically in relation to Bernard. I know he's accessing different memories but fuck me

[Mr Gashtacular]

Definitely the best episode this season. I'm not sure if Hopkins is the reason, though, which surprised me. The Hopkins stuff didn't interest me nearly as much as Dolores vs. Hale, Maeve vs. William, or the general progression we experienced. Hopkins being in there is a cherry on top no doubt, but the actual events were far more interesting than the return of a great actor/character, which is excellent news for the show.

Man, the time jumping back and forth a wee bit got me a little off guard at times though. Also, with a Westworld inside the Westworld, I wonder how much we're going to question what is real in this show. Inception levels of potential there...

Yeah, I found this episode mega-confusing... specifically in relation to Bernard. I know he's accessing different memories but smurf me

lol i have like 20% certainty what timeline i am watching at any given point so far.

genuine question: are we seeing two active bernard bots or two separate timelines?

those were some chekhov's clones in those bodybags if i ever saw them xD

[Del Murder]

My wife noticed the aspect ratio changed when they showed the virtual Westworld, so just be on the lookout for that. I doubt they would intentionally do that and then try to trick you by not changing it other times.

As for multiple Bernard hosts, I think it's entirely possible that we are following around two different host bodies throughout this season.

[Mr Gashtacular]

My wife noticed the aspect ratio changed when they showed the virtual Westworld, so just be on the lookout for that.

*mind slowly blown*

hadnt noticed. thanks for this.

[Loony BoB]

Oh wow, my brain did not register that at all. I wonder if my TV is still on auto-adjust or not. I think I turned it off but might have to double check.

[Del Murder]

As I read into it, apparently there were scenes in earlier episodes with the same 'letterbox' ratio so feel free to go watch again or look them up online. It's pretty clear now what they were trying to do with those scenes.

I'm actually loving this virtual Westworld angle because it breathes some life into the plot. The characters on this show are great but this whole Jurassic Park angle to the first few episodes was getting stale. Creating AI copies of human beings is much more interesting!

[Psychotic]

ok, cool, cool, but uh, probably didn't need to dedicate a whole episode to it

[Jinx]

Probably not, but I still enjoyed it, especially the simplistic soundtrack. I'm impressed that I was able to be genuinely upset when he found her in cold storage.

At least they answered how Maeve died on top of a maze and why the mazes started showing up on the inside of scalps.

ALSO TELL A TINY CHILD A TERRIFYING STORY THEN TELL HER NOT TO BE SCARED

[Loony BoB]

Heart Shaped Box was excellent! And I really enjoyed this episode - great acting work.

[Mr Gashtacular]

I thought it was great. I hope people don't pass it off as a gimmicky "character of the week" episode - it's really not. I think we really learned a lot, and some loose ends were tied up pretty well. I'm glad they used Zahn McClarnon, he really "made" Fargo season 2.

There's some kind of ARG featuring Bernard's brain if you haven't seen it yet. Put the episode clips in order to help Bernie get his memory together. There's no reward for doing it, but it might be fun and I expect it to get more stuff to do as more episodes air.
http://delosdestinations.com/intranet/mesh-bernard/

[Bubba]

Best episode of the season by a very long way.

Though I find it hard to believe the guy was free to wander around the entirety of the (deserted!) inner Westworld offices and find his missus. Also, did no-one notice that he was riding to the outskirts of Westworld and staring at their base from across the ravine. Do these things even have trackers on them?

Agree that Heart-Shaped Box was an inspired choice. Awesome.

[carefulmom]

Heart-Shaped Box was amazing!

[Bubba]

I honestly never would have predicted the Delores/Bernard coupling. I get she’s been awakened and doesn’t really care about Teddy anymore. Still, it was a bit weird.

I think the child William arc was completely unnecessary. We know his journey from good William to Bad William. Anything before that is pointless. I was impressed by the kid who played him though.

Maeve is just destined for misery in whatever she does *covers eyes*

[Jinx]

RIP Emily
RIP William’s Redemption Arc
RIP Teddy
RIP Dolores’ Sanity (what was left of it)

[Psychotic]

William to shoot his daughter because he's convinced she's a host. You like to do as you please with no consequences? Here's the ultimate consequence.
Teddy is waking up too, sucks to be you, Wyatt.oh would u look at that

This was my favourite episode of the show so far I think. Fucking hell William/Teddy.

[Jinx]

William to shoot his daughter because he's convinced she's a host. You like to do as you please with no consequences? Here's the ultimate consequence.
Teddy is waking up too, sucks to be you, Wyatt.oh would u look at that

This was my favourite episode of the show so far I think. smurfing hell William/Teddy.

I'd say your second prediction was only partially true. Teddy didn't kill himself so much as to get revenge, as that he couldn't live with what he'd become, and he couldn't watch his very reason for living turn into a monster.

That said, she's actually suffering now, huh?

[Del Murder]

Man, even if it was a robot of my kid I couldn't shoot it. Even if I knew it was 100% a robot and possibly even if it was trying to kill me. Then again I'm not a smurfed up sociopath like William. There's no coming back for this guy.