Tetsuya Nomura breifly talks Remake Battle system.

[Wolf Kanno]

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In the newest issue of Dengeki PlayStation, Tetsuya Nomura was interviewed (http://kh13.com/news/tetsuya-nomura-says-kingdom-hearts-hd-28-final-chapter-prologue-will-support-4k-resolution-through-ps4-pro-new-utada-hikaru-theme-song-for-kingdom-hearts-iii-undecided-no-new-kingdom-hearts-iii-news-till-after-kh28s-release-more-in-la)about the upcoming World of Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts 2.8 release, and also shared some info concerning KHIII and the Final Fantasy VII Remake.



Finally, please tell us more about the Final Fantasy VII Remake that has caught the world’s attention.
Nomura: If it had past materials like Kingdom Hearts, the basics would have been easy to understand, and the staff can understand the hurdles we’ve had to overcome, but at any rate, the battles in Final Fantasy VII have greatly changed from the original, since they’re something with more action in them. The next time I release information about Final Fantasy VII Remake, I think that I’ll definitely have to explain the specifics of what the battle system has become to the players. I think right now that nobody is really able to imagine a concrete battle, so I’m in the middle of coming up with steps that I can show and explain to people, “It’s this kind of battle.”

Sounds like you’re breaking your backs over remaking what was originally a command-based battle system into an action style battle system.
Nomura: We’ve heard a lot of Final Fantasy VII fans also say that they want to play the game with the original ATB style, but for the remake we’re proceeding toward an action-heavy style. Of course, we’ve added systems that future fans will be able to enjoy, so people who are bad at action-style battles, please don’t worry. For those who excel at action-style battles, we’re working to make this a system that’s different than what you’ve used before and can still enjoy. Recently, we checked the Guard Scorpion at the beginning of the game, and I think you’ll be satisfied with the realism you’ll feel there.

2017 is also the 20th anniversary of Final Fantasy VII.
Nomura: Like with the 15th anniversary of Kingdom Hearts, I’m thinking I’d like to plan something or other. It’s just that, since we’ve been keeping busy with productions, including the game World of Final Fantasy that I showcased today, I don’t think I will be able to share any new news until after things calm down.




So the battle system is definitely more action game based than some visual gimmick with a command based interface like say FFXIII's system. Yet it also sounds like the system has a bit more going for it as well. At least the Guard Scorpion fight sounds like it may be pretty cool. It will be also interesting to see what Square has planned for the game's 20th Anniversary.

Source: KH13, Translation by Catherine Mueller (nichiei.translations@gmail.com)

[Depression Moon]

It didn't reveal anything. We already knew it was going to be action based when the game was revealed.

[Fox]

I like turn based battle systems and seriously wish SE would stop pretending they were this giant ball and chain holding their older games back from true greatness.

But I also like action games, so I don't mind much. The only thing I hope is that we have the opportunity to control all our party members. Here's looking at you, FFXV. I am not and have never been keen on relying on AI to make the right decisions about a fight.

[Formalhaut]

They mentioned Guard Scorpion and it being 'more realistic'. Is there perhaps a capacity to disable part of the machinery, like the tail to avoid the laser attack. I remember XIII: LR having enemies having their tails chopped off, things like that.


We’ve heard a lot of Final Fantasy VII fans also say that they want to play the game with the original ATB style, but for the remake we’re proceeding toward an action-heavy style.

I'm not sure he meant to sound so blunt, but that sounds very much like "we hear your feedback and are deciding to ignore it."

Personally I'm fine with it being more action-orientated, but if there's a way to slow down combat or introduce turn-based elements to it, I'm all for that as well. Their vagueness is irritating though.

[Galuf]

I just want to kill sefieroth

[Wolf Kanno]

It didn't reveal anything. We already knew it was going to be action based when the game was revealed.

And is that different from any other interview this man has done in the last fifteen years? The man is a master of talking without saying anything. He did it for years concerning Versus XIII.

[Loony BoB]

SE are very good at saying nothing. xD

I really don't mind it being an action game at all. FFVII is my favourite game ever, but I am keeping my mind extremely open with the remake. I will not assume it will be better than the best game I've ever played, but I do believe it will be the best possible tribute.

[maybee]

Of course, we’ve added systems that future fans will be able to enjoy, so people who are bad at action-style battles, please don’t worry.
People who don't like action-battle styled battles, don't hate it, because they suck at it SE. They just prefer the feeling of ATB more. This interview was just one big massive one finger flip, to those who just simply wanted a ATB battle system.




But I also like action games, so I don't mind much. The only thing I hope is that we have the opportunity to control all our party members. Here's looking at you, FFXV. I am not and have never been keen on relying on AI to make the right decisions about a fight.

This so much ! Main reason to why I feel like skipping out on FFXV tbh.

[TheKeybasHKey]

I don´t mind the new battle system unless if you are fair with newcomers with the new battle system.

[Big D]

It didn't reveal anything. We already knew it was going to be action based when the game was revealed.

And is that different from any other interview this man has done in the last fifteen years? The man is a master of talking without saying anything.This. One of the things that made me lose faith in his creative skill was when I realised he never seemed able to explain what he was doing or imagining. Like the special features on the original Advent Children DVD, where he's mumbling and sniffing his way through a bunch of interviews before deciding that the movie's main theme is 'Cloud is getting older so it's time for a new generation to rise'.

[Bright Shield]

SE are very good at saying nothing. xD

I really don't mind it being an action game at all. FFVII is my favourite game ever, but I am keeping my mind extremely open with the remake. I will not assume it will be better than the best game I've ever played, but I do believe it will be the best possible tribute.

My apologies then friend. SE is about to ret-con the hell out of your favorite game with a bunch of Compilation nonsense. Chopping up the narrative into parts is also murder on the wallet.

Even worse is that the remake will write over the original canon completely. Pretty much making the original game pointless. This is just messed up. No game deserves that. :(

[maybee]

SE are very good at saying nothing. xD

I really don't mind it being an action game at all. FFVII is my favourite game ever, but I am keeping my mind extremely open with the remake. I will not assume it will be better than the best game I've ever played, but I do believe it will be the best possible tribute.

My apologies then friend. SE is about to ret-con the hell out of your favorite game with a bunch of Compilation nonsense. Chopping up the narrative into parts is also murder on the wallet.

Even worse is that the remake will write over the original canon completely. Pretty much making the original game pointless. This is just messed up. No game deserves that. :(

^ Yeah, can see this coming from miles away, even though fans are praying that they won't even dare. SE is all too keen to include things like Genesis.

[Loony BoB]

People will get their knickers in a twist over Genesis but I can't see them making him be anything central whatsoever.

I genuinely don't care. :shobon: If this were a fan made game people would be praising the fuck out of it. People get extremely overprotective about their games sometimes. I am just, 100%, looking forward to a tribute to the best game ever. A tribute. NOT the same game. If I wanted to play the same game, with the same text and the same battle system... I'd play FFVII.

[Fox]

Genesis was dumb but he didn't ruin anything. Crisis Core did not become a bad game because Genesis was in it. Besides, Genesis was only important to Zack's arc, not to FFVII main - even if he shows up it'll be in like one or two cutscenes while Cloud's stuck in the lifestream. I think we can probably endure it.

[maybee]

even if he shows up it'll be in like one or two cutscenes while Cloud's stuck in the lifestream. I think we can probably endure it.

Disagree, hahaa I can't stand him.

[Fynn]

The additional missions in Crisis Core heavily suggest Genesis and the goddess Minerva are way more important to the planet's business than might initially seem. So yeah, they might as well retcon the hell out of that and make Genesis a big deal.

[Sephiroth]

The additional missions in Crisis Core heavily suggest Genesis and the goddess Minerva are way more important to the planet's business than might initially seem. So yeah, they might as well retcon the hell out of that and make Genesis a big deal.

If anything they get slight hints. Genesis and Minerva are more the stuff for the sequel. After all DoC's secret ending, CC's ending, Sephiroth's Watashi wa omoide ni wa naranai sa and the comment in 2008 that "the compilation's finale will need another form" show enough. I suppose the Remake will either have hints inbetween or as a secret ending that there will be something in the future that is not just AC, OtWtaS, DoC, et cetera.

And RE Remaster is exactly that. A remaster. No remake.

[Elly]

yeah, as far as Genesis is concerned, i doubt we'll see more than a mention in a report collected or read somewhere, like in ShinRa Tower... this is Clouds Story, from his perspective, and Cloud does not remember Genesis at all after his severe Mako Poisoning...

as for the Battle System... i'll wait and see, who knows, i might even like it...

[Bright Shield]

If I wanted to play the same game, with the same text and the same battle system... I'd play FFVII.

And yet, when you change nearly every thing about the game, you make the remake pointless. Why not just make a brand new game then? That's pretty much what this is. A new game with a FFVII skin. Definitely not the game most people wanted.

The Resident Evil Remake should be the blueprint for all remakes.

[Night Fury]

What I want from an FFVII remake, is that it is a remake of the exact same game - but the graphics are spot on - maybe we get more amazing cgi cutscenes, voice acting, some of the remastered music...

I don't need or want it to be transformed into one of their new flashy action games. I want an RPG that I can pour time into, get lost in... I feel like the latest FF games with the action... they just feel like you rush them?

If it's going to be an action game more than an RPG, fair enough! I just won't buy it. I still have the original which is amazing and provides me all the FFVII I need.


I also disagree with the notion that if the remake is bad it will make the original pointless. FFVII will never be pointless. That game changed video gaming forever, it changed attitudes to video games, it changed peoples lives. It is a piece of media with a huge legacy. We have ALWAYS got that game, no matter how much they may or may not eff this up, we ALWAYS have the original.

[maybee]

If I wanted to play the same game, with the same text and the same battle system... I'd play FFVII.

And yet, when you change nearly every thing about the game, you make the remake pointless. Why not just make a brand new game then? That's pretty much what this is. A new game with a FFVII skin. Definitely not the game most people wanted.

The Resident Evil Remake should be the blueprint for all remakes.

Agree so much, I hate this argument.

[Loony BoB]

If I wanted to play the same game, with the same text and the same battle system... I'd play FFVII.

And yet, when you change nearly every thing about the game, you make the remake pointless. Why not just make a brand new game then? That's pretty much what this is. A new game with a FFVII skin. Definitely not the game most people wanted.

The Resident Evil Remake should be the blueprint for all remakes.
I want a tribute to the original game. I want the same characters, the same general plot, expanded to include new stuff. I want a new battle system. I didn't buy the remaster of FFX and I probably won't buy the remaster of FFXII. Despite FFVII being my favourite game ever, I didn't buy the PC remaster. Fancy new graphics? If people are arguing they want the same thing with fancy new graphics, what are the odds that these are the same people who argue that the new games in the FF series are crap and that they focus too much time on fancy graphics and not enough on story? xD

This is looking to be the game I am wanting. I do suspect there will be a lot of things I will not enjoy. I suspect I won't like Cloud's aesthetic or voice, for example. He'll probably be more broody than the Zack-like character we saw in the original. I dunno. But I'm really excited to see certain scenes done with the fancy graphics, to move around in a truly 3D Gaia, things like that.

Having insanely good, borderline realistic graphics and then mixing that in with a slow, turn based battle system to me would just make the game look like it's trying to be two different things at the same time and likely failing to be either.

So yeah, my point stands. This is a remake. If you don't want it, don't play it. That's absolutely okay. But if you're expecting this level of graphics in the gameplay style of the original game... the closest you're probably going to get will be the PC remaster. Because really, remaster is what you're asking for, not remake.

[maybee]

Judging by Cloud's personality in World Of Final Fantasy, then guessing yeah, it's going to be Gloomy ! Cloud. I think SE has forgotten Cloud's original personality, and original quotes that made him so famous like " Lets Mosey " and " You look like a bear wearing a marshmallow " and not things like " Not interested '' which he says more in Advent Children. I think Cloud in the OG said " Not interested " once, and that was when somebody wanted to know what prizes he could win on the rollercoaster ride in the Gold Saucer Theme Park.

Is it because most of the original Square team is gone ? Or is it because they are catering to newer fans/ younger players that grew up with Advent Children and prob haven't even played the OG because of graphics that have aged like milk left out of the fridge, and just got FF VII OG information from Wiki ? I don't know, but it's annoying. OG Cloud became famous and so beloved for a REASON.

[Elly]

that's funny when you consider how everyone talks about and refers to Cloud in sector 7, but i guess a lot of people ignore or forget that... he was never this happy-go-lucky person a part of the fan-base tries to make him out to be... from the very start he's referred to as cold, a loner, a mercenary that only cares about his pay and nothing else... "not interested" he first said that to Barret when Mr. Wallace tried explaining the plight of the planet and AVALANCHE's goals in the opening Bombing Mission... anybody that thinks Cloud is this bright, bubbly, cheerful bloke needs to go back and replay those first few hours and really pay attention to the dialog and how people (PCs and NPCs) talk about Cloud... FF VII is not a colorful romp through Candyland, it's a depressing dreary story set to a dystopian backdrop, and that's why i love it, Cloud was the direct opposite of the typical plucky kid off to save the world so often seen in RPGs...

[Fynn]

Cloud is definitely an aloof dick from the beginning, but he is also pretty cocky. I wouldn't say he's broody or anything before he regains his true memories - just a total prick, when you think about it. He then has this crisis, but becomes a better person after some introspection, yadda yadda. He really doesn't get really broody until Advent Children which, regardless of how bad that movie's story and characters were, is still plausible considering he's, you know, dying.

The game was still much more varied than the dreary theme of the movie. There were incredibly goofy moments to offset the dark stuff, which was pretty great and reminded me of FFVI in that way. Still, from interviews you can tell that they're trying to preserve that.

That said, the remake's Cloud still looks pretty cocky and aloof to me, so it kinda fits with his original persona. We'll see how this goes. But it's definitely not a matter of the wrong people being involved because Nomura was a big part of the original and now he's directing this project.


Honestly, I'm kind of looking forward to playing it, though there are things that really bother me about this project (the episodic format mostly, and then there are the possible allusions to the smurfing Compilation). And yet, I don't feel like anything that we've seen so far warrants being considered such a total betrayal to what FFVII stands for.

FFVII is a game. You may have very good memories of it, but it's just a game. The remake will also be a game. You may like it more, you may like it less, but still, just because it isn't what you want it to be or it isn't your vision of what FFVII should be in HD, it's not the end of the world. So take it as what it is - a game, not some holy artifact that you can't touch because that's blasphemous. Play the game - the original or remake - and just have fun. Or don't. We don't know yet, since the game isn't out.

But hey, FFVII is decent and it's still there on so many platforms now and you can still play it, so why waste your energy on this?

[Bright Shield]

Now I question your love for FFVII Bob. This remake looks like a train wreck. What good Remake has ever shifted a game's subgenre? Turning a turn based RPG into an action RPG is nonsensical, and not the type of gameplay FFVII should have.

You wanted a tribute? Fine, but a tribute is not a remake, and I don't even view this as a tribute. More like a shameless cash grab. This is FFVII reimagined to suit Square's new agenda. They have zero respect for the games that made them popular to begin with. They have become all style and no substance. Like a Japanese Michael Bay.

And no, People wanted a remake, not a remaster. Just a good one like Resident Evil or Twin Snakes. There is no reason at all to make heavy story changes, or change the game's sub genre. Unless they are saying that the original sucked, and needs to be "fixed". Which is exactly what they are getting at. The lack of respect for the original game's continuity in the Compilation already proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I don't get why FF fans allow Square to spoon feed them this crap, and then defend them for spitting in their faces. Zelda fans would be burning Nintendo HQ to the ground if they said "we're remaking Ocarina of Time, BUT now it's turn based, Link is going to talk, and we are going to change major plot points".

Are you going to defend the multi part bs too Bob? >_>

[Loony BoB]

I think another thing that needs to be considered about Cloud is that at the start of FFVII, he isn't "himself" - he's like... Mini Zack? He's brought all of these ways of thinking etc. into his life based on Zack's personality, and he acts a lot like Zack. This is explained in the original game. He then reverts to his old self somewhat as the game goes on, naturally the issues he has going on with his brain kicking his... well, brain. And then in the end he gets past it and gets back to being a bold person, but this time it's him. Still, I really hope we do get to see Cloud being bold and decisive rather than just looking sad about everything. Because sure, Cloud does that a lot, but they don't really let him do anything else in CC/AC. They need to work on it a bit more.


Now I question your love for FFVII Bob.
I wasn't aware that other people could tell me which games I do and don't like, or how much, but if you want to, by all means, go for it. I hope it brings you some kind of calm or something.

I'm a very open minded person who enjoys a lot of different games with a lot of different styles. I love FFVII, absolutely, but I'm not naïve to the point that the game, if re-released as a still-camera pretend-3D game where HD/4K characters stand around looking grim for twenty seconds before someone makes the next move, would probably show it's age very fast. It reminds me of when random battles kicked in during Lost Odyssey. I loved Lost Odyssey, but after playing games where battles were not random, and then going back to random battles, it... didn't really do the genre any favours for future-proofing. It was okay, sure, but people were flooding to other games because they were simply more fun to play.

For me, I am perfectly happy to play Crisis Core. I actually quite enjoyed it, and the ending was superbly done, one of the best game endings ever imho. They nailed it. The one thing I really dislike about all the spinoffs is Cloud's personality. I could give or take Genesis, I don't lose my crap over him like many do. Angeal was an excellent character, imho. Zack and Aerith were so much cooler than the original VII's Zack and Aeris. But my opinion is just that, an opinion. I'm entitled to mine as much as you guys are entitled to yours. But in the end, I'm cool with looking for the good things rather than focusing on whatever negatives you can scrimmage together months/years before you even see the released game. I mean, if you want to do that, power to you, but what's the point? Nothing will suddenly wipe the original game out of existence. I don't get why people get so upset about SE "destroying" FFVII when the original is still there, still able to be purchased in numerous ways, still playable on various platforms, unchanged in any notable way whatsoever.

I wonder what the last big selling turn-based JRPG was outside of hand-held games? How many years back do we need to look? People look back at things with rose tinted glasses, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone when I look back fondly at games I played in my youth. But I recognize that these games were made for back then. I also recognize that I just don't care for playing the same game with fancier graphics. I want something new and exciting, while retaining the things I loved about the original. Which means that I'm going to watch the amazing moments that I played through in the original game, and perhaps see them expanded upon. I'll hopefully enjoy it.

I wonder how many people write to cinema directors complaining about how awful a movie is because they saw a teaser trailer and thought it was rubbish.

[Bright Shield]

^I was questioning, not dictating. That said, it's fine if you like the Compilation, XIII trilogy, and all the other nonsense Square has served up as of late. My issue is with them trying to turn their old IPs into this bs.

You mentioned the Crisis Core ending, but let's be real. It was a complete ret-con and did not fit in at all with the tone of FFVII. That is exactly the type of crap I hope we don't see in the remake. Zack fighting an entire army was over the top as hell, and dying to a J-Pop song was just laughable. The scene was portrayed as much more realistic and dark in FFVII. Not heroic at all. It was swift and brutal.

That is why I'm questioning your love for the source material. If you like it as much as you claim, then why are you fine with it all being turned into a ret-conned mess with some of lowest writing quality around?

I respect you and all Bob, but come on. These clowns change the reactor scene each time it is shown. That's not respecting the source material or even basic story telling... like at all... >_>

[Wolf Kanno]

In some ways I'm with BoB on all this that if you're going to do a remake, you should actually shake up the formula. A graphical remake of VII would not fix the problems the game has, and while I can agree the Compilation is a serious mess, it's not like I had a whole lot of love for the original anyway so I'm not bothered if the Remake is going to retcon the original into the fold of the rest of the Compilation.

I mean I enjoy the 3D remake of IV, but I would be lying if I didn't say I preferred the original 2D version (not even going into the PSP Remake) and it changed up some things that I felt made it an enjoyable experience for me; but I was also a bit underwhelmed by it because the majority of the game just got a graphical face lift and nothing else. It would have been interesting to actually see them mess around with the dungeon design or the towns, instead of just playing a graphically better looking version of a game I've played dozens of times before and know by heart. The wow factor wears off pretty quickly. Not to mention the voiced dialogue just made it more obvious how silly the story is which I'm sure will happen in the VII remake as well.

To me it's the problem with remakes is that they're either lazy (which is what I would call the RE Remakes and the GBA FF remakes) or they sometimes just take a bad direction (I'm looking at you Lufia 2) because you suddenly realize that the real issue at hand is that you just hate the modern gaming conventions that the medium has evolved into. Nostalgia is powerful but I don't really see why VII would need just a graphical overhaul. It would seem like a waste of time and resources and would better be served by going for something modern but less taxing like the Crisis Core/Dissidia/Type-0 engine as opposed to the hardware of a modern console.

As for story/character retcons, that ship sailed with the Compilation, especially since it was overall very successful so why bother changing things? Not to mention that in my playthroughs of VII since the Compilation, I've kind of decided that fans are the ones who really have Cloud wrong, he's pretty aloof and indifferent to everything that doesn't involve Sephiroth in the original and his few charming moments are all during the time when Cloud is still thinking he's Zack/idealized SOLDIER than when his true, generally more moody personality comes to bear in the second disc, so I don't really see much of a retcon on his character in the Compilation. It's the villains who really suffered the character decay, especially Rude, Rufus, and Sephiroth. Lord knows what will happen to Heidegger and Scarlet.

[Fynn]

That reminds me of how Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire got a remake that significantly altered the story of that game, and yet somehow no one was calling it a travesty for daring to mess with their childhood. And boy, is Pokémon gen III a part of many people's childhood...

[Bright Shield]

For you Wolf it would be more like them drastically changing FF6 or Chrono Trigger.

My problem isn't with change in general though, it's with the actual changes themselves. The guys in charge of this Remake have never done FF7 justice. They have no idea how to write a coherent plot. Not to mention that the subgenre shift is just a complete slap in the face. It's like they're saying that turn based games aren't good.

Granted, I'm not as pissed off as I'm coming across. I expected this crap from SE, and FF7 was never a favorite of mine to begin with. I'm just trying to figure out why some of the FF7 fanbase has no problem with this. They are pretty much writing FF7 out of it's own timeline, and saying that almost everything about it was crap and needs to be "fixed". George Lucas went through a similar thought process when he ruined Star Wars... >_>

And yes, the Lufia 2 Remake is exactly what I think will happen with this game.

[Bright Shield]

That reminds me of how Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire got a remake that significantly altered the story of that game, and yet somehow no one was calling it a travesty for daring to mess with their childhood. And boy, is Pokémon gen III a part of many people's childhood...
In the compilation's case it's more about how awful the story changes are. The game play changes weren't as drastic either. FF7 Remake is an action RPG. I'm pretty sure that the Pokémon Company would be getting ripped to shreds if they tried that with a mainline Pokémon game.

[Loony BoB]

It's like they're saying that turn based games aren't good.
In this day and age? They'd be right, for the most part (I'm talking home console games, not handhelds). Again, I'd love to know how long it has been since we had a genuinely successful (I'm talking mainstream gaming) JRPG that uses turn-based stuff. Because my guess is over a decade ago. Bravely Default was seen as a sign that the old style can still be good, but it's not a massive home console game, it's a little handheld game. It was closer to FFVI than FFVII when it comes to "modernization". I haven't even played Bravely Default but looking at it tells the entire story. If FFVII was remade like Bravely Default, it would already be going backwards rather than forwards.

Remakes are about remaking a game to fit the modern consoles and modern trends.
Remasters are about getting an old game and making the graphics better while retaining the gameplay/dialogue of the original.

One requires actual serious work. That's what I want.

It should also be said (time and time again, it seems ;)) that I do not see this as some kind of retcon of FFVII, nor something that will change FFVII in any way. Why? Because FFVII is still there. If I want to play FFVII, I play FFVII. I just want to now also be able to play this reimagining. To me, each game is an island, it's own little dimension if you like. I like creativity, I like imagination, I like seeing what people come up with. If every single FFVII fanfic could be created as a multi-million pound/dollar video game, I'd probably play them all the time. I love the world, I love the characters, I love that I'm going to get to see them again. If it's not 100% FFVII, I am 100% okay with that because I 100% still have FFVII to be 100% FFVII.

This is the main reason I don't really get too bothered by the compilation, either. If there's something I don't like, that's okay, it's just that particular producer/director's imagining of what would happen and they're perfectly entitled to do it, and I'm perfectly entitled to enjoy seeing what they put together. If I dislike something, that's okay, I don't expect to like everything. The main thing is that I get to see this reimagining. It's no different than a fanfic or speculation about an upcoming game. We all do it. These guys just get paid to, and thankfully for me, that means that I can play a game made by very talented people and see how it plays out in comparison to my own imagination, and that of Sakugachi.

If I'm going to get upset about something, it better be important, and it better have a notable impact on my life. This won't. And if it is amazing, all the better.

But seriously, don't you think you're going a little overboard with how you're saying they're going to rewrite the entire game or whatever? Because we don't know sod all about what's going to happen yet. It was established pretty early in this thread that Nomura has basically done a very good job of telling us nothing we didn't already know.

[Fynn]

What SE consider "canon" is really moot unless you're counting on a sequel, in which case they'll need to cut off some branches. But as long as all you care just about FFVII's story, be it the original or remake, it really doesn't matter which is true and which is rewritten, because they're both there. Heck, SE made Sword of Mana with huge rewrites to FF Adventure's story, but then look, many years later, we get a remake of the original that is much more faithful, and yet they're both equally valid games, both owned and uh, "protected" by SE.

Or think of it this way - most people consider the male path of Persona 3 canon, right? I mean, makes sense, considering it's that path that gets referenced in later games in the continuity. But then, the series has already dealth with multiverse stuff at least once, way more than once if you count the rest of the SMT series, making the female path an actually valid, canon path, that just isn't canon in the same timeline as the male path.

The point I'm trying to get across is that there's really no point in worrying what SE considers canon, what SE thinks is the "true" story of FFVII. Just enjoy each story for what it is. If the FFVII remake will suck, it'll suck. And that's it. The original will still be there, and it will still be as valid as it was, and it will still be the game that defined an entire generation of gamers.

So. Chill.

Also, BoB - Persona 5 is turn-based, on a console, and a big frickin' deal, if you haven't noticed.

[Wolf Kanno]

For you Wolf it would be more like them drastically changing FF6 or Chrono Trigger.

Well, while I would be against a remake of CT entirely (it would be like trying to repaint the Venus de Milo) I actually wouldn't be bothered too much by a VI remake that made significant changes to the experience, as I said before a graphical update wouldn't really do it for me in the long run and much like VII, it's not like VI doesn't have room to improve in some areas. Granted, I'm sure SE would ruin aspects of it for me but like the DS remake of IV, I'm sure I would still prefer the original over the remake anyway even if it did turn out to be really good.


My problem isn't with change in general though, it's with the actual changes themselves. The guys in charge of this Remake have never done FF7 justice. They have no idea how to write a coherent plot. Not to mention that the subgenre shift is just a complete slap in the face. It's like they're saying that turn based games aren't good.

Granted, I'm not as pissed off as I'm coming across. I expected this crap from SE, and FF7 was never a favorite of mine to begin with. I'm just trying to figure out why some of the FF7 fanbase has no problem with this. They are pretty much writing FF7 out of it's own timeline, and saying that almost everything about it was crap and needs to be "fixed". George Lucas went through a similar thought process when he ruined Star Wars... >_>

And yes, the Lufia 2 Remake is exactly what I think will happen with this game.

I understand where you're coming from and my own ire with the Compilation is largely due to how poorly it's handled the mythos of VII, but again, I feel any chance of a remake staying true to the original were dashed once the Compilation came to be. I'm not even saying the Remake will stay true to the Compilation, it may end up becoming it's own thing as well that will retcon the Compilation titles. What I am saying is that the Compilation simply showed that the creators and parts of the fanbase are no longer on the same page about the story and world, and that tends to happen a lot when creators come back to projects they haven't really touched in decades which is pretty much what happened with George Lucas. Then again, I don't feel I would be satisfied with J.J. Abrams approach either of just repackaging what I love with little to no changes but cosmetic like The Force Awakens which is basically A New Hope remake that doesn't really add much to the mythos besides being an ironic echo of past glories.

As for turn based gaming. While I, and many others do believe the gameplay style has still much more to offer, the fact is that the style hasn't really been in vogue for years SE has been trying to move away from it since FFX with mechanics that add movement or jack up the speed at the cost of tactical depth. It hasn't been helped that one of their biggest franchises to come out in the last decade has been an Action-RPG. Even Hiroyuki Itou, the man who made ATB, has said that he believed that FF would eventually move away from Turn-Base combat systems, and that was way back in 2007 he was making that comment.

Will it go away for good? Probably not, but I do remember one of the criticisms that began to crop up in the PS1 generation of FFs and the RPG genre in general was just how silly and unrealistic turn based combat looked, and I simply feel Square took that to heart. Let's not forget that two of the masterminds of the game are Kitase (has a background in film) and Nomura (creator of said popular Action-RPG and an artist first) so I'm really not surprised both of them would choose a battle system that drops the visually boring turn based system for a fluid visually impactful Action-RPG system instead since it's more in line with where they like to focus on things.

I think ultimately I'll just paraphrase a conversation Bolivar and I had when the VII Remake was officially announced and said we both agreed (one of those rare times we do) that a VII Remake was always doomed to fail to recapture the magic of the original because so much of what made it great was timing. The impact of leaving Midgard and finally seeing the world can't really be replicated because it was ultimately just one of those "you had to be there" moments in time. So like BoB, I can simply accept the Remake as its own thing, but I'll agree with you that I don't really have enough faith in the people making it either. For me, the only good thing about the Remake is that it will finally shut up the fanbase have been harping about a VII remake since FFVIII came out with better graphics than it.

[maybee]

Cloud is definitely an aloof dick from the beginning, but he is also pretty cocky. I wouldn't say he's broody or anything before he regains his true memories - just a total prick, when you think about it. He then has this crisis, but becomes a better person after some introspection, yadda yadda. He really doesn't get really broody until Advent Children which, regardless of how bad that movie's story and characters were, is still plausible considering he's, you know, dying.

That makes sense, but Kingdom Hearts ? Dissidia Games ? It doesn't. It doesn't really excuse it when Cloud is acting like his Advent Children identity, when he's supposed to be his OG identity, in titles like Dissidia.



FFVII is a game. You may have very good memories of it, but it's just a game. The remake will also be a game. You may like it more, you may like it less, but still, just because it isn't what you want it to be or it isn't your vision of what FFVII should be in HD, it's not the end of the world. So take it as what it is - a game, not some holy artifact that you can't touch because that's blasphemous. Play the game - the original or remake - and just have fun. Or don't. We don't know yet, since the game isn't out.

But hey, FFVII is decent and it's still there on so many platforms now and you can still play it, so why waste your energy on this?

Because people love Cloud for Cloud. I mean, Cloud used to be a top favourite character of mine, and now I don't even hold him in all that high regard compared to characters like Squall, Rydia, Kain and many more. Because his character has been completely changed, from what it was beforehand.

This sounds rather rude Fynn ? Considering the fact that people have personal reasons ( usually ) to why they might love a fictional character; we all know that it's a simple video game, but that doesn't stop people from loving characters personally, like how you love the Beast from Beauty and the Beast ( judging by your siggy )

Again, I hate this argument, because it's cutting people out from people who just wanted FFVII in better graphics, sound, and voice-actors, that the original doesn't have. I don't mind the dated graphics, but there's alot of people out there who do, and just wanted to see the game that they loved in better, smoother graphics. This argument is like one big slap to the face to them.



In the compilation's case it's more about how awful the story changes are. The game play changes weren't as drastic either. FF7 Remake is an action RPG. I'm pretty sure that the Pokémon Company would be getting ripped to shreds if they tried that with a mainline Pokémon game.

Lol, agree so much here. I mean the Pokemon Fandom got mad about a cat standing up for it's final evolution.

[Fynn]

Did not mean to be rude, so if you felt that was the case - sorry.

Of course people make a personal connection with characters. It's what they're for. And I never once said it was meaningless. All I said is that a game is not something that can be made irrelevant by a remake, much like a book won't be made irrelevant by the film adaptation. What I was trying to say was that you'll still have your game to enjoy, and additionally you'll just have this new take on the game to enjoy. Whether it'll be terrible or not, we have yet to see!

And it's really hard to choose a path for a remake that will satisfy everyone. Sure, there's a vocal group that just wanted a face lift, but a lot of people are still excited about the action combat, and many people in today's gaming environment (sadly) don't believe anything other than action combat makes for an exciting game. Add to that the fact that Wolf mentioned, that it's been years since the creators and fans of the original have been on the same page, and you just have a whole lot of unrealistic expectations piled up over years and years during which gaming has changed significantly.

Which is why I'm trying to maintain that "separate thing" attitude. Because just because it's something different, doesn't mean it's bad, and I really don't think it was ever reasonable to expect that we'll get another experience like we did back in the day.

Whether you like it or hate it, FFVII changed the gaming scene in a huge way in the past. No matter which way they'd go with a remake, a whole crowd of people would be very unhappy with it. So I try to maintain a balanced approach.

[Loony BoB]

Yeah, it's not just really hard, it's impossible to please everyone.

Also, I should clarify that I have nothing against turn based JRPGs. I have WoFF on pre-order. From looking at the screenshots of Persona 5, I can see how turn based can work for it.

But if you're creating a game with FFXIII or better level of graphics? Yeah, the action should be fluid, at least for me. The original FFVII is not fluid. It works because of the system and level of graphics it exists in. And it's amazing. But if I saw FFXV's level of detail and quality of graphics put into the FFVII original battle system... to me, it would just look very weird. I think I mentioned it before - it'd be trying to be two different things at once.

[Fynn]

I kinda disagree. Just because it's turn-based in practice, doesn't mean it'd have to be awkward with people in lines facing each other. FFX-2 made a nice step forward in that regard, and XIII is still a turn-based system, when you get right down to it, so I believe that with the right choreography and stuff it could still be pulled off and not looked wrong. This is more a matter of what the current gaming climate is and what opinion people have of turn-based systems and JRPGs in general.

That said, I'm not saying they should have done it just because they could, since they are trying to appeal to as many people as they can with this remake. I think Persona 5's success may actually possibly help with bringing back turn-based battles to the mainstream, since that series has been a bubble that's been swelling, waiting to burst since P3 and now it looks like they're really playing their cards right with marketing and stuff. It's still impossible to tell, since it's really hard to predict some things, but there's every possibility that this game will become the FFVII of this generation.

But that's still entirely hypothetical. And with a huge project like the FFVII remake after the failures of the XIII series, XIV's launch, and XV still not really guaranteed to reach the success they're hoping for, SE kind of need to try to appeal to as many people as possible.


Yeah, this in general is why I prefer handheld gaming. Bloated gaming budgets really help with nothing but improving the presentation, and it can often come at the cost of other elements being weaker (looking at XIII here). But hey, maybe this will work out.

(still salty about the "episodic game" deal, though; I know the story alread; I don't need to be teased with plot details; I just want the game)

[Loony BoB]

Oh, yeah, don't get me wrong, I don't think it can't be turn based. I'm more meaning VII's original style of turn based, where you can patiently sit there and spend time considering your next move. XIII is basically ATB sped up, you're right on that front. I could have seen VII working with XIII's battle system. But a large number of people tend to have a fit about anything related to XIII...

EDIT: Not so sure regarding marketing with Persona 5 though. The only place I ever hear about it is at EoFF. D:

[Fynn]

I said it's clever, not far-reaching :p

And honestly, this place is also the only place I ever hear about FFXV, really. But gaming sites are very excited about both, really. Though FFXV obviously gets more press due to being a longer running brand and having realistic graphics, it's still pretty interesting how much more attention Persona is gaining these days, to the point that it's not implausible that it will soon leave the niche.

[Bright Shield]

Some of you bring up good points, but here.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WyJHW-QvsUo

This video sums up my thoughts on this Remake perfectly.

[maybee]

Yeah, agree with his point that the remake is more aimed towards the Crisis Core/ Advent Children/ DOC generation, and mostly refuse to play the OG due to aged graphics.

That's fine, though it's going to be frustrating for those who grew up with the OG, and it's going to frustrating to have to wait for the rest of the parts of the remake for everybody.

Also hugely agree that Nintendo is doing a much better job of Cloud Strife, and knows his character much, more more than SE ever does today.

[Loony BoB]

Also hugely agree that Nintendo is doing a much better job of Cloud Strife, and knows his character much, more more than SE ever does today.
Have you played World of FF? They nailed Cloud in it. Really pleased.

[Bright Shield]

Also hugely agree that Nintendo is doing a much better job of Cloud Strife, and knows his character much, more more than SE ever does today.
Have you played World of FF? They nailed Cloud in it. Really pleased.

He is better in that game, and the game is decent overall.

Sadly it also more proof that Square simply cannot tell a good story any more.

[maybee]

Nope ! Just got up to Yuna, hope to see him soon though !