PDA

View Full Version : [KH] Disney Princesses Question



Crop
11-18-2016, 07:46 PM
When this game came out, the official Disney Princess lineup already existed, so why did Kingdom Hearts not roll with the lineup when choosing the Seven Princesses of Heart?

At the beginning, the 9 princesses were Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Pocahontas, Mulan and Tinker Bell.

The 5 they chose from the lineup are Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Belle and Jasmine. Kairi was obviously one, so they have one position left to fill. Not using Ariel and Tinker Bell makes sense from a practical point of view due to living underwater and being tiny respectively.

So why weren't either Mulan or Pocahontas chosen? Pocahontas has never even featured in a Kingdom Hearts game! It seems odd to instead choose Alice, from a film which has largely been forgotten (relative to other films used) over Mulan and Pocahontas which were fairly recent at the time of the game release.

Has this ever been asked before? Was there ever an answer?

Jinx
11-18-2016, 07:48 PM
Pocahontas and Mulan aren't princesses. Neither is Tinkerbell. But neither is Alice, for that matter.

Fynn
11-18-2016, 07:48 PM
Pocahontas is totes a princess. She's the chief's daughter!

Crop
11-18-2016, 07:50 PM
Pocahontas and Mulan aren't princesses. Neither is Tinkerbell. But neither is Alice, for that matter.

They are according to Disney. Tinkerbell isn't anymore, she was removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Princess

They brought it out shortly before the game was released. Even from a marketing point of view you'd think they'd want to pimp it out as much as possible by following the lineup, for that dollar.

Jinx
11-18-2016, 08:16 PM
Pocahontas is totes a princess. She's the chief's daughter!

Chief, not king. Native Americans don't have royalty. There is no such thing as a Native American princess.



Pocahontas and Mulan aren't princesses. Neither is Tinkerbell. But neither is Alice, for that matter.

They are according to Disney. Tinkerbell isn't anymore, she was removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Princess

They brought it out shortly before the game was released. Even from a marketing point of view you'd think they'd want to pimp it out as much as possible by following the lineup, for that dollar.

At least Pocahontas was the daughter of the chief (see above, though), but Mulan is not royal. In any way whatsoever. She's a commoner who married a commoner (a war hero general, but still a commoner). :p

They're marketed as "princesses", I'll give you that. But they're actually just not.

Crop
11-18-2016, 08:46 PM
Yeah, I get that. Aerial makes the most sense from an actual princess point of view, but like you said - Alice isn't a princess either. She isn't even a princess in the eyes of Disney, so it seems odd to pick her over the other two who at least have the official tag to them.

Mirage
11-18-2016, 09:41 PM
Where's my god damn frozen princesses. Well, princess. No queens allowed.

maybee
11-19-2016, 05:12 AM
Mulan and Pocahontas, I don't think that they were added into the official Disney Princess line-up till a few years after KH's release. The Disney Princess line-up used to be Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine - and sometimes Tinkerbell, Esmeralda, Meg, and Jane. I know that Esmeralda and Meg got quickly dropped because Disney felt like they would be 'bad role models for girls "( which is total BS, but W/E )

Ariel only got replaced by Alice, because SE said that she would much easier to make a Princess than Ariel would be.


I don't remember seeing Mulan and Pocahontas being apart of the line-up till around 2008-2009-ish. Disney most likely felt that Mulan would be a better space holder over Tinkerbell, because she's somebody that young Chinese girls can look up too, and she saved China. Same with Pocahontas, she's somebody that young girls can look up too, who share her culture. They needed to include Mulan and Pocahontas, because it would be ages before Tiana, plus it makes the line-up, more cultural and fair to more races than just European French/ German.


TL;DR Mulan and Pocahontas were most likely included into the line-up after KH's release, to make things more fair to more cultures. Plus, Mulan is awesome.


Where's my god damn frozen princesses. Well, princess. No queens allowed.

Disney said that they want to make Frozen a separate merch place, same with Moana and that Spanish Princess chick from that Disney Channel show. Elena ?

DMKA
11-20-2016, 05:38 PM
Yeah, the fact that Alice was chosen as one of the princesses of heart never made any sense all to me.


There is no such thing as a Native American princess.

Native American here. Tell that to my tribe, which currently has three princesses. :p

Also, in the stupid sequel Pocahontas II when she goes to the new world, the people there refer to her as a princess. And honestly, being the daughter of a chief really is the closest thing to a Native American equivalent. But it's true, "princess" was not a Native American term until the last couple centuries.

I've always wanted to see Pocahontas in Kingdom Hearts but I'm guessing Nomura either didn't really like that movie or just can't think of a way to feasibly work her/her world into it well.

As for the whole "Disney Princess" thing, they don't actually have to be a princess to be a "Disney Princess". You see, the group who came up with the whole DP thing base it on something they call "The Princess Mythology" which means they have to meet certain criteria, mainly four things: They have to sing, they have animal friends, they have to have a love interest, and they have to come from a film that was a well known roaring box office success. This is why characters who meet the criteria like Megara from Hercules and Esmeralda from The Hunchback of Notre Dame aren't part of it (those films were both successes, but they weren't THAT successful), nor are actual princesses like Kida from Atlantis: The Lost Empire or Eilonwy from The Black Cauldron (they don't fit the criteria, plus those films were box office bombs).

Of course, that's all apparently stopped applying now that Merida from Brave is a Disney princess. She doesn't sing, doesn't really have any animal friends (unless you count the horse she rides), doesn't have a love interest, and technically isn't even a Disney created character. So I think now it just comes down to being the female lead from a roaring box office success. Which begs the question why Elsa hasn't been added to the lineup, although I'd guess it's because she's still literally printing money on her own without being part of a secondary character lineup. :p

Jinx
11-20-2016, 07:01 PM
Yeah, the fact that Alice was chosen as one of the princesses of heart never made any sense all to me.


There is no such thing as a Native American princess.

Native American here. Tell that to my tribe, which currently has three princesses. :p

Also, in the stupid sequel Pocahontas II when she goes to the new world, the people there refer to her as a princess. And honestly, being the daughter of a chief really is the closest thing to a Native American equivalent. But it's true, "princess" was not a Native American term until the last couple centuries.

I've always wanted to see Pocahontas in Kingdom Hearts but I'm guessing Nomura either didn't really like that movie or just can't think of a way to feasibly work her/her world into it well.

As for the whole "Disney Princess" thing, they don't actually have to be a princess to be a "Disney Princess". You see, the group who came up with the whole DP thing base it on something they call "The Princess Mythology" which means they have to meet certain criteria, mainly four things: They have to sing, they have animal friends, they have to have a love interest, and they have to come from a film that was a well known roaring box office success. This is why characters who meet the criteria like Megara from Hercules and Esmeralda from The Hunchback of Notre Dame aren't part of it (those films were both successes, but they weren't THAT successful), nor are actual princesses like Kida from Atlantis: The Lost Empire or Eilonwy from The Black Cauldron (they don't fit the criteria, plus those films were box office bombs).

Of course, that's all apparently stopped applying now that Merida from Brave is a Disney princess. She doesn't sing, doesn't really have any animal friends (unless you count the horse she rides), doesn't have a love interest, and technically isn't even a Disney created character. So I think now it just comes down to being the female lead from a roaring box office success. Which begs the question why Elsa hasn't been added to the lineup, although I'd guess it's because she's still literally printing money on her own without being part of a secondary character lineup. :p

Informative, I stand corrected! My thing came from the whole "my grandmother was a Cherokee princess". Nah, mate, Cherokees don't have princesses. But thanks for pointing that out. :)

Anyways, this is pretty informative, but it still bothers me when x is called a princess. NO THEY'RE NOOOOOOOOOOOT

Shauna
11-20-2016, 07:10 PM
I feel like Japan really enjoys Alice in Wonderland (woo hoo, sweeping generalisations based anime what I have seen) so I can imagine they'd be inclined to get her in there one way or another.

Skyblade
11-21-2016, 11:46 AM
I think Alice qualifies as a Princess. In Through the Looking Glass, Alice plays the role of a White Pawn, eventually making it to the end of the board where she becomes... A White Queen. Kingdom Hearts takes the story of Alice in Wonderland, where the events of the later book have not yet transpired. Ergo, Alice is a girl who is going to be a queen. And what do we call such a person? A princess.

MJN SEIFER
03-25-2017, 08:49 PM
I think Alice qualifies as a Princess. In Through the Looking Glass, Alice plays the role of a White Pawn, eventually making it to the end of the board where she becomes... A White Queen. Kingdom Hearts takes the story of Alice in Wonderland, where the events of the later book have not yet transpired. Ergo, Alice is a girl who is going to be a queen. And what do we call such a person? A princess. That was just awesome. :cool:

DMKA
03-26-2017, 10:16 PM
Because Kingdom Hearts does its own thing and Tetsuya Nomura is weird. Why they chose Alice as one of the Princesses of Heart has always baffled me, especially since Ariel is in the game, and is not a Princess of Heart.

Mulan didn't come until after the fact, so I understand why she wasn't even considered. Not that she's a princess anyway, though she's no less a princess than Alice.

As for Pocahontas, she and her film simply haven't been used in KH. Her film is one of my favorite animated films ever and I really wish she was incorporated into the series. I've wanted her in KH since the beginning.

Wolf Kanno
04-21-2017, 07:24 PM
I would imagine it was something more mundane like a simple issue of not getting copyright approved in time. It's part of the reason why we've never seen Tarzan after the first game because even Disney technically doesn't own the full rights to the story.

In the case of Pocahontas, I would imagine it's simply a matter of avoiding controversy since, unlike every other Disney property, she was a real person. Not to mention all the damn controversy that came about when the original film came out. I would imagine that particular film is off the table due to Disney and SE not really wishing to alienate any fans.