PDA

View Full Version : Why the FFXV Bro-trip Might Not be Such a Bad Thing



Pumpkin
11-23-2016, 04:47 PM
Why the FFXV Bro-trip Might Not be Such a Bad Thing
http://i.imgur.com/R1W9VZQ.jpg

Hi, I'm Pumpkin, and I have a confession. I like to play girls in video games. I like playing pretty girls! As someone who struggles with her looks, playing attractive, well-dressed female characters helps put a smile on my face. I get to latch on to those characters and for the short while (okay, long while) I'm playing, I get to forget about my extra flab and pointy nose, and I get to be a pretty lady. That's pretty cool. So when Final Fantasy XV shows up on the scene with a largely male cast... well, needless to say I was a bit disappointed. "Only guest female characters? An entirely male party??? BUT THEY HAVE COOTIES!" I cried out in disappointment. But maybe, just maybe, the boys club isn't such a bad thing.

http://i.imgur.com/lEXJNET.jpg


I am a huge RPG fan. They are by far my genre of choice, and I consume them at an unnatural rate. I don't even want to think of the time and money I've invested in them. Because of this, I have had limited experience with other genres until recently when I've branched out in to other games. You see, JRPG's tend to give you at least one playable female character. Usually for fanservice or to be a romantic interest, but that aside, there's usually at least one girl character to play. In most WRPG's, you get to create your own character, which of course means I get to play as a pretty lady. In some other games I've played, however, you are who you are and that's it. Especially in games where you only get to play as a singular character, you play as who you play as, end of story.

http://i.imgur.com/16MBYQo.jpg


This brings me to the Walking Dead Telltale game in which you play a black man, something I've never really done before aside from the few token minority characters here and there in other games. And while his race is not the point of his character, it is a part of who he is. Being so white you can barely see me in the snow, I've never had someone assume I can pick locks because I'm "urban". That's something I have never had to experience before in my life. But now, through the magic of interactive media, I could get a small look in to the life of someone different from myself. Not necessarily someone who fit an image of who I want to be, but someone who's life experience is fundamentally different. At the end of the day, that's a good thing.


http://i.imgur.com/VCa7q5U.jpg


So how does this tie back in to Final Fantasy XV, you ask. Well, that's simple: I've never been a man. I've played as men sometimes, usually in visual novels' where women throw themselves at me like I'm a giant chunk of meat and they haven't eaten in a month. But Final Fantasy XV really has a focus on male bonding, something I've never been able to experience. Sure, I've bonded with men (teehee), but I was always a woman, inside and out. I've never been on a "bro-trip", developed a bond between men, or been able to pee standing up without making a mess. The last one is mostly unrelated but I'm seriously jealous of men not having to sit on icky public toilet seats. Even when I've been the only woman in a group of men, I was the only woman. Even if I was "one of the guys", I really wasn't. Like it or not, society puts different expectations on men and women, and this can largely shape our lives as we grow up and try to find who we are. I've never had the expectations men have on them, nor have I had the benefits. I've always been and probably always will be woman.


http://i.imgur.com/33gA1m7.jpg


If I want to take gaming beyond a simple way to kill time and melt away the daily stresses, if I want to see its benefit in immersing myself in the lives of those who have totally different experiences from myself and use it as an opportunity to develop more empathy and understanding towards others, well then I should embrace the bro-trip offered here by Final Fantasy XV. I should embrace the opportunity to experience male bonding as a male, and maybe, just maybe, it will help me grow a little bit as a person outside of the game.

On the other hand, they could really stand to put some more clothes on Cindy, amiright? *shots fired*


http://i.imgur.com/lIImUpC.png

Fynn
11-23-2016, 04:57 PM
I'm really looking forward to seeing this dynamic play out mainly because we really don't see it in games. Like you said, there really isn't that much focus on male-bonding in video games in a way that feels real and organic, and I really can't wait to see how XV delivers.

As for Cindy, you can tell they fixed the camera angles on her because Conan didn't say a thing about her on Clueless Gamer, and anyone who watches the show knows that he'll perv out at everything he can :p

Karifean
11-23-2016, 05:51 PM
I've played as men sometimes, usually in visual novels' where women throw themselves at me like I'm a giant chunk of meat and they haven't eaten in a month.

Ahaha... can't deny it, that's one of the not-so-nice tropes about the medium.

But yeah, I'm very much looking forward to seeing how they'll execute this concept. There's a lot of potential there, especially for making extremely likable characters, that's left largely untapped in the game industry. And hey the only really memorable group of boys for me in games so far produced four of my all-time favorite characters, so I'm quite optimistic!

Loony BoB
11-23-2016, 06:23 PM
Excellent article. :up:

I'm not really sure you'll get the "real world" male experience in these games, but I hope so, at least to some notable extent. I often wonder how differently I'd get treated if I were a different gender, both positively and negatively. It's a curiosity that I think the entire world shares to some degree.

Mirage
11-23-2016, 07:49 PM
I'm not entirely convinced they'll be able to write a convincing "male bonding" thing, but hey, I was never big on that whole male bonding thing myself so what do i know.

krissy
11-25-2016, 04:33 AM
I'm not entirely convinced they'll be able to write a convincing "male bonding" thing, but hey, I was never big on that whole male bonding thing myself so what do i know.

what? what about this amazing piece of writing?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nQRUCZFpWQI/hqdefault.jpg

Night Fury
11-25-2016, 08:49 AM
While I appreciate what you're trying to say, I can't say I agree with it.

Mostly because I just don't believe this bro-trip thing they're trying to sell. Are they going to execute this well at all? I don't think so.

Like sure, I get this 'artistic direction' thing they're doing, and that they don't feel a female character in the party would add anything. I get it.

But I can't say that me playing a game as a boy in a group of boys would let me feel like a boy either, can it be said that it's a 'good thing' if overall the whole thing is badly executed? I get to feel like a dude in a game with the rest of my dude friends surrounding a barely dressed woman and look at her. So glad I get to play a game and be on the other side of that. :roll2

Group of White Frat Boys go on a Bro-Trip and Stare Down Scantily Clad Female.


..... Yey?

Fynn
11-25-2016, 09:14 AM
Thankfully, they actually deleted that scene from the main game.

It seems like Tabata was genuinely shocked that Cindy came across as sexual. Or at least, he made it look like that but still tried to do some damage control.

Bubba
11-25-2016, 10:12 AM
I honestly think this was a great article. I think it's a natural thing to gravitate towards your own gender when it comes to video games. I know I do it. It's also great to step outside your comfort zone from time-to-time too. I'm mega-excited to play through Mass Effect again as FemShep!

FFXV has received a lot of criticism for its 'bro-trip' approach. Some of it has been unfair too considering the game isn't even out yet. I agree they've dropped the ball with Cindy though, deary me...

Execution is everything. I don't think anyone is hugely confident in SE's ability to get this right but I for one am going to reserve judgement.

I'm certainly not going to dismiss a game because none of the characters are my gender. On my commutes to work, I've started playing FFX-2 on my Vita which is obviously an all-female cast. I don't know what level of criticism this received on release but I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far! Dresspheres for the win!

Mirage
11-25-2016, 11:49 AM
Thankfully, they actually deleted that scene from the main game.

It seems like Tabata was genuinely shocked that Cindy came across as sexual. Or at least, he made it look like that but still tried to do some damage control.

Tabata also directed parasite eve 3 and if you know anything at all about that game, his surprise at the reactions to that ff15 scene suddenly makes complete sense.

Fynn
11-25-2016, 12:14 PM
Enlighten me, Mirage, because I don't have that much info on the 3rd Birthday.

Psychotic
11-25-2016, 12:17 PM
I also think frat boy is a bit of an unfair description of the characters, having played Duscae and watched the Brotherhood episodes. There seems to be a bit more to them as people than that. I'd probably suggest watching Brotherhood (all of it freely available on YouTube) if you're concerned about being able to relate to them. And if you still can't then fair enough really!
Thankfully, they actually deleted that scene from the main game.Have they? Thank god. That was awkward as hell.

Mirage
11-25-2016, 02:14 PM
Enlighten me, Mirage, because I don't have that much info on the 3rd Birthday.

For starters, aya's clothes get torn off whenever she takes damage, all the way down to her underwear.

Fynn
11-25-2016, 02:40 PM
Enlighten me, Mirage, because I don't have that much info on the 3rd Birthday.

For starters, aya's clothes get torn off whenever she takes damage, all the way down to her underwear.

Well, at least we know where the inspiration for the Omen trailer came from!

Mirage
11-25-2016, 02:43 PM
I was not aware of tabata's prior works until recently, but it certainly doesn't give me confidence that they'll pull this off well.

He also did Crisis Core and Before Crisis, and the FF7 anime.

Fynn
11-25-2016, 02:50 PM
Crisis Core was good gameplay-wise. The story was insanely bad, but I heard Tabata wasn't actually a fan of FFVII, so I think maybe he was just lashing out there :p

Mirage
11-25-2016, 02:51 PM
That's what i've heard too.

Loony BoB
11-25-2016, 02:56 PM
I'm a fan of Crisis Core, but not Type-0. Apparently this goes against the natural flow of fans so *shrug* I should probably give Type-0 another go someday, once the world opened up I just kind of lost my groove.

FinalxxSin
11-27-2016, 06:49 PM
On my commutes to work, I've started playing FFX-2 on my Vita which is obviously an all-female cast. I don't know what level of criticism this received on release but I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far! Dresspheres for the win!
Hypocrisy is pretty bad. X-2 doesn't bashed for having an all female playable cast nearly to the extent that FFXV does have for an all male cast.


On topic: While FFXV is bound to have its share of issues, I do hope everybody can find something to take away from it in a positive light. It's going to be a ride for me to say the least.

Mirage
11-28-2016, 06:02 AM
It's only hypocrisy if you ignore the actual points

Night Fury
11-28-2016, 08:17 AM
Hypocrisy is pretty bad. X-2 doesn't bashed for having an all female playable cast nearly to the extent that FFXV does have for an all male cast.


On topic: While FFXV is bound to have its share of issues, I do hope everybody can find something to take away from it in a positive light. It's going to be a ride for me to say the least.

It does. So much so that in the remaster they have made it so you can have dudes in the party.

FFX-2 was also a sequel featuring readily established characters (well, except Paine!) and not a main numbered title.

FFX-2 has a trio of main male characters, the Shinra staff are all male, the villain is male, two of the mini villains are male. So yes, while your main party is all women, the gender split for the whole game is very much 50/50. Probably actually works out that there are less women in it than dudes...

FFXV has....... 4 female characters that are part of the story.

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/12/127694/2147428-247492_000291213.jpg

http://www.ffexodus.com/ffx2/images/characters/logosormi.jpg

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/c/c1/Shuyin-ffx2-render.png/revision/latest?cb=20140413112637

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1vFO-_Jf2io/Vx6UGvowjeI/AAAAAAAABTI/D7ijAgywjBUsjHvaH6ngErkvOSN4ybpTQ/w506-h750/20.png

Fynn
11-28-2016, 09:10 AM
Five, I think. There's Luna, Cindy, Iris, Gentiana, and Aranea.

Honestly, though, there's not that many male characters either. Aside from Noctis's gang, there's Cor and like four named imperials. Of course, that's not counting people who die in Kingsglaive, but if we count those, then we also count Crowe.

It feels like the proportion is actually similar to that of most games in the series, but there's just not that many named characters overall and amid all this controversy the fact that there are few females is just made that much more prominent.

Mirage
11-28-2016, 09:15 AM
The deal is of course that lots of males is common, while lots of females is very uncommon in these sorts of games. Cutting them entirely out of the playable party just accentuates the situation.

Then of course the misrepresentation of comparing a main game to a spinoff. I'm also dying to see whether FF15 has a hot spring scene with the four main dudes, by the way.

Fynn
11-28-2016, 09:23 AM
Yeah, that's the worst thing. You know that X-2 wasn't an all-female party in order to push some feminist agenda - it was purely for fanseruvce.

FinalxxSin
11-28-2016, 08:07 PM
It's only hypocrisy if you ignore the actual points
The point that a good number of younger people are quick to complain about things that wasn't harmful in the past nor present? I don't care if a cast is all female or male. The structure of a cast both main and support is irrelevant to me. What matters is execution.


not a main numbered title.
I fully disagree.