A new EoFF Mafia

[Karifean]

Hey there, Eyes on Final Fantasy.

It's been a while since the last Mafia game around here, hasn't it? As I only recently realized this forum appears to have had a pretty big Mafia scene for a long time. And since I've recently gotten fond of playing forum Mafia myself, I figured I might as well give hosting one around here a shot. The game style I'm used to is probably a little different from the game style the Mafia veterans around here are used to, and it won't be as extensive as previous games with alternate accounts and the like, but that'll hardly be a problem, now will it?

But first things first, a Mafia game can only run if there are enough players interested in playing. I'd like to get the game going around Dec 27th or 28th. If you are interested and want to participate, let me know down below~

For those who don't know, Mafia is a "secret identity" type game that pits an informed minority - the mafia - against an uninformed majority - the citizens. The mafia know each other's identity, but the citizens know nothing. The citizens have to figure out who to trust and expose the Mafia in their midst. The mafia have to deceive the citizens, pretending to be trustworthy allies while secretly working against them. The game is divided into alternating day and night phases. During day phases, everyone decides on someone to be lynched. During night phases, special players may use their abilities, including but not limited to the mafia players, who can kill any one person they want to. Some citizens also have special abilities, like the Detective/Cop who can pick a player and covertly investigate their true allegiance, or the Protector/Doctor who can pick a player who will then be immune to all kill abilities that night. If the citizens manage to kill all the mafia, they win. If the mafia manage to kill enough players so that the number of mafia is equal to the number of citizens, they win. The number of Mafia players depends on the number of total players, usually ranging around 1/4 of players.

[FFNut]

Count me in! Never played one but sounds fun.

[Scruffington]

I'm up for playing. I've been playing Mafia for years. I do have a Christmas dinner to attend on the 27th unfortunately so I won't be too active on that day.

[Formalhaut]

Like, yeah? I smurfing love Mafia. It's literally been years since the last game, which is a travesty.

[Freya]

I'll play!

[qwertysaur]

I'll play too! :bigsmile:

[Karifean]

So the timeframe for starting the game I originally stated has come and gone, and I guess I'll expand the question to who is even interested in playing a Mafia game in general, regardless of whether or not the timing fits? I don't have too much coming up anytime soon, so maybe we can find a better time. Or otherwise at least find out that there's not enough interest in the first place.

[Aerith's Knight]

Ah, Mafia. The game to make enemies out of your friends, and worse enemies out of your enemies. Count me in, my salt levels are dipping.

[Shauna]

Aye.

[Goldenboko]

Good luck to all the tributes

[Fox]

I am interested but don't fully understand how it works. This sounds quite a lot like Secret Hitler.

[Scruffington]

Yep. Still interested.

[Freya]

:chocobo: still interested

[Karifean]

I am interested but don't fully understand how it works. This sounds quite a lot like Secret Hitler.

Well the underlying principle of "uninformed majority vs informed minority" is the same, and Secret Hitler was created as a game that fixes some of the more common problems people have with games like Mafia. While I consider Secret Hitler to be a better game overall, Mafia is much better suited to play online on a forum. The most notable differences in the games are 1. in Mafia, players get eliminated all the damn time, whereas in Secret Hitler it only happens up to twice in the whole game, 2. the citizens in Mafia are not powerless like the liberals in Secret Hitler, some of them have special abilities to help track down the Mafia (which means citizens also have a reason to keep their identity secret, if they have a strong ability they don't want to get killed off by the Mafia immediately) and 3. the Mafia can talk to each other in secret at their leisure unlike the fascists.

A normal round of Mafia goes as follows:
Setup phase - Everyone is assigned an alignment, an identity and possibly an ability.
1. Daytime phase - Everyone talks and decides on someone to lynch (or, in the variant I play, they can also decide not to lynch anyone at all). Everyone has one vote, votes are all public, the person with the most votes at the end of the phase is eliminated. If someone gets over 50% of all players' votes before the time limit is up, the vote is locked down and the phase ends instantly, with that person being eliminated right away.
2. Nighttime phase - everyone with an ability (citizens and Mafia alike) PMs their "night action" to the game master. Most notably, the Murderer in the Mafia team gives their target for the night.
3. In my variant, the players also get a daybreak writeup that presents the events of the nighttime phase in a narrative. If you know a player's identity or ability, it's very possible you'll be able to pinpoint them in the narrative and find out what they did and who they were visited by (i.e. had an ability used on them) that night.
At this point, the game loops with the next daytime phase, usually with one extra player eliminated by the Mafia. When the Mafia eliminate enough players so that the number of Mafia equals or outweighs the number of citizens, they win. If the Mafia are wiped out, the citizens win.

The abilities in play are usually up to the whims of the game master, and sometimes they may also decide to spice things up with a "third party" that's neither citizen nor Mafia and has their own objective. Figuring out that it exists and what its members are trying to accomplish is an extra challenge for citizens and Mafia alike.

If you want to see some example games with a 07th Expansion theme, see these: Rokkenjima Mafia I (https://forum.rokkenjima.org/t/rokkenjima-mafia-game-i-game-over-witch-side-victory/453), Rokkenjima Mafia II (https://forum.rokkenjima.org/t/rokkenjima-mafia-game-ii-game-over-human-side-victory/678). First game, when we were all still bloody beginners, the humans got utterly destroyed, second game, when we realized the true power of the daybreak writeups, the humans won pretty handily. Perhaps you can pick up some strategies for citizens and Mafia alike by giving them a read~

[Formalhaut]

Still interested!

[Freya]

When we usually play here, we don't give a narrative about any specifics besides "so and so died" or "no one died!" But you know, flavored up. Not sure if that's what you were meaning or not. I feel that helps protect like a doctor or cop or whatever. Then the Mafia have to guess what happened to their own kill "WHAT why didn't they die? OH NO there could be a ____ in this game!" Giving more details I think gives the mafia even more information and makes it too easy for them.

It was always great to watch the mafia team scramble when someone else dies in the night though. When you add in that third party person. Blows their minds usually cause they never suspect it.

[Scruffington]

When we usually play here, we don't give a narrative about any specifics besides "so and so died" or "no one died!" But you know, flavored up. Not sure if that's what you were meaning or not. I feel that helps protect like a doctor or cop or whatever. Then the Mafia have to guess what happened to their own kill "WHAT why didn't they die? OH NO there could be a ____ in this game!" Giving more details I think gives the mafia even more information and makes it too easy for them.

It was always great to watch the mafia team scramble when someone else dies in the night though. When you add in that third party person. Blows their minds usually cause they never suspect it.

Am I misunderstanding your post, or are you suggesting that the role of whoever was killed by the mafia is not revealed in their death post?

[Freya]

Oh no, I'm sorry, I'll clarify what I mean! What I mean is any flavor-text indicating what happened to that person who died or didn't die.

So like:

A man scared off a spooky figure and no one died! :D Day starts!

So then the mafia know that a) a man b) interrupted their kill c) it didn't go through. They now know far more information about the townies because of the flavor text.

That I think should be more vague so they don't have all that more of an advantage.

[Formalhaut]

Flavour text is great (particularly for themed games with themed characters) but yeah, it should be non-specific so as to not assist any one side. Whoever is game master should be conscious of that.

[Scruffington]

Oh no, I'm sorry, I'll clarify what I mean! What I mean is any flavor-text indicating what happened to that person who died or didn't die.

So like:

A man scared off a spooky figure and no one died! :D Day starts!

So then the mafia know that a) a man b) interrupted their kill c) it didn't go through. They now know far more information about the townies because of the flavor text.

That I think should be more vague so they don't have all that more of an advantage.

Well in standard mafia, certain things are communicated to you and certain things aren't.

If the mafia targets a person who happens to have immunity, they will be told that their target is immune. This isn't communicated to the town, only to the mafia since they were the ones performing the attack.

If a doctor targets someone to protect, and their target is attacked, they will be told that their target was attacked.

Basically any actions involving the denial of killing are only communicated to the parties involved. Also, if there is a Serial Killer or another killing role, their existent will be known in the game when they perform a kill. So in the next day's post, it should say " ____ was killed by the Serial Killer" or Veteran, or whoever else can kill.

[Freya]

I've played both where the mafia is told what happens to their actions and then the way it's not.

I prefer the not. Leaving them to guess what happened. That way they aren't told it's a doctor or whatever, they have to guess if it is one or if it is some other crazy role.

As for the serial killer announcement, I'm super against that. Telling them WHO killed what can mess things up from a knowledge perspective.

So say there's a doctor, mafia, and a serial killer.

Mafia targets person A, Doctor protects person A, and SK targets person B. So person B dies come morning.

Townies don't know about the SK. Doctor thinks they just protected the wrong person. Mafia freaks out cause that wasn't their target, so what happened! time to guess what's going on!

Too much revealed about the actions takes out an element of deduction from the game and I think that makes it even more fun when it's there.

That's my opinion at least, different GMs host it different ways. It's still fun, that's just my preference.

[Scruffington]

I've played both where the mafia is told what happens to their actions and then the way it's not.

I prefer the not. Leaving them to guess what happened. That way they aren't told it's a doctor or whatever, they have to guess if it is one or if it is some other crazy role.

As for the serial killer announcement, I'm super against that. Telling them WHO killed what can mess things up from a knowledge perspective.

So say there's a doctor, mafia, and a serial killer.

Mafia targets person A, Doctor protects person A, and SK targets person B. So person B dies come morning.

Townies don't know about the SK. Doctor thinks they just protected the wrong person. Mafia freaks out cause that wasn't their target, so what happened! time to guess what's going on!

Too much revealed about the actions takes out an element of deduction from the game and I think that makes it even more fun when it's there.

That's my opinion at least, different GMs host it different ways. It's still fun, that's just my preference.

That's not really the way mafia is played.

There are a set number of roles in the game, and it's always defined from the start. There will always be a Town Killing, a Town Investigative, a Town Protective, a Town Support, a Random Killing, and at least one "Unknown" role from a selection of a few. Usually it's a random neutral such as Jester or Executioner.

If you are playing as the mafia, and your kill fails and you receive the message "Your target was immune," you still don't know what role your target was. That information is not revealed. You don't know if you failed to kill a Serial Killer (who has night immunity), a Doctor (who can protect themselves a limited number of times), or someone who the Doctor protected. You still have to deduce things by playing the game.

The presence of a Serial Killer absolutely has to be disclosed in the game. Obviously you wouldn't reveal who it is that has the role, but there needs to be a distinction between who is killing who. So a death post would look like "_____ was killed by the mafia" and "____ was killed by the Serial Killer." If two people are dying every night, it's obviously both mafia and SK killing people. This just provides some clarity for the game, and in no way detracts from the "deduction game."

[qwertysaur]

I agree with Freya, and I speak from experience being a GM who did reveal too much and it destroyed the balance of the game. too much information will throw the game off balance in either direction. :shobon:

btw I'm down for a game in the near future.

Edit: Hi Scruffington. I'm professor qwerty, the pokémon professor.

I've played a lot of forum mafia games, and they work a bit uniquely. There are so many possible roles that can be in play, including some that are created for the game, like lovers where one is a doctor and one is a serial killer, and they are a 3rd party who want to kill everyone else.

Or there may be 2 mafias in the game, so the town is overloaded with protection roles.

Lets go with the example you have, a mafia kill fails. It could be from a a protective role, or the mafia member doing the killing could be role-blocked. Or a weird role like bus driver, or nexus that can redirect night actions. Some of those roles rely on the surprise.

[Freya]

Well, Scruffington. That may be how you have played it but we have done it several different ways! So that is actually a way to play the game yes. We've been playing the game here at Eyes on FF since 2007! Crazy long time for a final fantasy forum to be playing this crazy game. If you're curious of all the different convoluted ways we've tinkered with it around here, check out the archived subforum here (http://home.eyesonff.com/forumdisplay.php/103-Mafia). In most of those games we update the first post with info as the game went along.

The way I've described has been my personal favorite way to play the game. It's really up to the host on how they want to play the game. Qwerty here was one of those crazies that threw in everything but the kitchen sink if I remember when he was a host. That was an intense game if I recall correctly. Almost ten years ago, though :lol: I think I came out as a winner with a townie on that crazy one! It's been a bit, I'll have to look through our archives myself!

Karifean wants to go for a more basic set up I believe though. So it shouldn't be too complicated. I was just giving my opinion on how day/night reveals should go

[FFNut]

I am still interested too. This sounds really fun, and would love to fill any role needed.

[Scruffington]

I've played a lot of forum mafia games, and they work a bit uniquely. There are so many possible roles that can be in play, including some that are created for the game, like lovers where one is a doctor and one is a serial killer, and they are a 3rd party who want to kill everyone else.

Oh there are definitely a lot of different roles. I've actually hosted several themed games myself years ago where I created new mechanics and roles, and modified pre-existing ones. The thing about mafia, though, is that there are always a few guaranteed roles. The host always has to list the roles in the game, but some can be made a surprise. In Town of Salem, for example, there are a few different Random roles classified as either "Random Town Supportive" (which I believe consists of Doctor, Medium, Escort) or some other form of Random. It's totally fine to keep a select few "random" roles secret, but it should be clarified as to what type of role it is without giving up the specifics. That means that there is still some ambiguity about their role, but it's not completely random. So there is some room for deduction.


Or there may be 2 mafias in the game, so the town is overloaded with protection roles.

Every game always has 2 or more mafia. Unless you mean two mafia groups, which requires a lot of people.


Lets go with the example you have, a mafia kill fails. It could be from a a protective role, or the mafia member doing the killing could be role-blocked. Or a weird role like bus driver, or nexus that can redirect night actions. Some of those roles rely on the surprise.

The escort cannot necessarily roleblock a kill. If there are two mafia members (Godfather and Escort) and one gets blocked, then the one who is not blocked performs the kill. The requirement is that both players must vote to kill. If only one person votes to kill and they get roleblocked, the kill is blocked.


Karifean wants to go for a more basic set up I believe though. So it shouldn't be too complicated. I was just giving my opinion on how day/night reveals should go

What I said actually just serves to streamline the game. If the next day phase post comes up and no one is killed in it, everyone will logically conclude that the kill was stopped. The mafia already knows that their target was immune because their kill didn't go through. Likewise if two people die, everyone will be aware that a second killing role exists. Telling the mafia that their target was immune and exposing who was killed by who only helps the game flow more smoothly. There's no need to "hide" what happened because that's the conclusion you'll arrive at anyways. Not everyone has a lot of time to play this game, so if there's any way we can make the process more efficient and time-friendly, that would be it.

[Freya]

See to me it does not. It makes it flow too easily. Less quess work is needed because the GM tells you everything.

I'm for more deduction and less hand holding.

Again, just preference. It's up to the host

[Scruffington]

See to me it does not. It makes it flow too easily. Less quess work is needed because the GM tells you everything.

I'm for more deduction and less hand holding.

Again, just preference. It's up to the host

I mean it's not really guess work :P Concealing which faction killed someone in a game isn't making the game more deductive. It makes it far more tedious.

Plus, there are already a variety of roles in the game that conceal information. Certain information is supposed to be given to you, and other information you have to work for.

[Bubba]

Please can I play?

[Karifean]

Oh no, I'm sorry, I'll clarify what I mean! What I mean is any flavor-text indicating what happened to that person who died or didn't die.

So like:

A man scared off a spooky figure and no one died! :D Day starts!

So then the mafia know that a) a man b) interrupted their kill c) it didn't go through. They now know far more information about the townies because of the flavor text.

That I think should be more vague so they don't have all that more of an advantage.

On the contrary, I think the flavor text actually makes the game quite a bit harder for the Mafia, because the townies have much more information to go off of. The less information there is going around, the more luck-based for the townies the game becomes, I feel, depending on whether or not the Detective/Cop manages to unmask a Mafia, what roles the Mafia end up eliminating, etc. With this addition both sides get ammo for some information warfare regardless, and it gives the Mafia more of a fighting chance at figuring out the identities of the very dangerous townies before they get unluckily hit. (Though I may or may not be salty atm since the last Mafia game I played ended with both my fellow Mafia being unmasked in the first night >_< )

Also while they - and everyone else - would know that a 'man' interrupted their kill, in this setup identities are also secret just like abilities and alignments. You can try and reveal your identity to let everyone else have a better idea of where you are in the narrative, but you could be lying to throw people off, and you could be giving your enemies more information than is good for you.

If you prefer playing the game another way, fair enough, but I would like to at least try a round like this to give everyone a good idea of what it actually plays like. If that's alright with you guys?

[Formalhaut]

Smurf, I wasn't aware Mafia rules generated such debate! :D

[Shauna]

If you're hosting you run it the way you want to run it. :3

[Freya]

If you're hosting you run it the way you want to run it. :3
Yeah it's totally up to you on how you want to run it! I was just sharing my opinion on it, you don't have to give me much notice if you want to do it wildly different :D Everyone likes the ways they like and when they host, they can choose however they want to play it! :D

[qwertysaur]

Echoing Shauna and Freya. I know people had fun when I hosted, so I'm partial to that style. :shobon:

[Formalhaut]

Echoing the echoes here. I haven't a horse in this discussion, and I'm easy whatever. :p

[Karifean]

Alrighty, so currently we have 9 8 interested participants.

* FFNut
* Scruffington
* Formalhaut
* Freya
* qwertysaur
* Aerith's Knight
* Shauna
* Fox
* Bubba

I expect to be able to get things rolling in a couple days. While I'll start getting things set up, I'll leave the signups open for now. Remember, anyone is welcome, veterans and newcomers alike. It'll be fun~

[Shauna]

Bubba may be MIA for a bit, so maybe best not to include him.

[Aerith's Knight]

I won a mafia game once, by myself, because Paul set some ridiculously hard victory condition for a single person victory, and I did it as THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR!!!

HAVE YOU EVER DIPPED YOUR BALLS IN HONEY AND TEABAGGED A LION, HOAK HOGAN??!

[FFNut]

This will be the first time I have ever played so am looking forward to it. I am happy to play it any way the host is providing the game.

[Del Murder]

I don't have time for mafia right now but I will be following along. I'm excited to see Karif's take on it.

[Karifean]

Decided to start a new topic for the sake of not having a cluttered first three pages with game information thrown about all over the place instead of neatly organized in the first post.

New topic here (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/169241-EoFF-Mafia-Dissidia)

This topic can be closed.

[Del Murder]

It may be useful to keep this topic open for discussion outside the game thread (without revealing anything of course). It's fun for non-players to comment on what's happening.

[Shauna]

Pretty much why the thread hasn't been closed yet. x}

[Karifean]

If y'all wanna discuss the advantages and disadvantages of allowing lynchless Daytime Phases, feel free to do so here~

I feel it's ok to disallow them so long as the game starts with a Nighttime Phase. A game starting with a Daytime Phase where someone needs to be lynched and nobody has any clue what's going on at all yet never goes well.

[Formalhaut]

If y'all wanna discuss the advantages and disadvantages of allowing lynchless Daytime Phases, feel free to do so here~

Must we? I feel like we've discussed that point to death :p

[Psychotic]

I'm actually pretty sure there's been no lynch options in big EoFF mafia games before. It's fine, it's a worthwhile thing to have imho.

But as a strategy it's not one I would ever advocate. It's a playing-it-safe cop out for the town, along with the old favourite "Oh my god there's nothing to discuss on day one!" line that drives me up the wall. What are you waiting for? As if Day 2 "oh this person died during the night!" is somehow anywhere near as useful evidence as the lynch votes. Both the lynch and the discussion are the town's weapons and should be deployed accordingly. Silence and inaction helps the scum. Wo/man up and put your vote on someone. Nail your colours to the mast.

[Formalhaut]

But as a strategy it's not one I would ever advocate. It's a playing-it-safe cop out for the town, along with the old favourite "Oh my god there's nothing to discuss on day one!" line that drives me up the wall. What are you waiting for? As if Day 2 "oh this person died during the night!" is somehow anywhere near as useful evidence as the lynch votes. Both the lynch and the discussion are the town's weapons and should be deployed accordingly. Silence and inaction helps the scum. Wo/man up and put your vote on someone. Nail your colours to the mast.

Someone dying generates a lot of discussion, though. And while it's very well to wo/man up and put a vote on someone, I'm just not sure how sensible it is to just scattergun vote on random people either. After a night phase, the death (or lack of one) is pretty noteworthy. Reactions just to the death can be telling, especially once the deceased's role and alignment is revealed which can influence strategy

Lynching and discussions are weapons, but ones that can be redirected back to the town if town isn't careful enough. I see what you mean, and yes, I'm guilty of being a 'Oh my god there's nothing to discuss on day one!' type of person. I just honestly feel there's not enough to go on to solidly place a vote on anyone and not have that vote feel very arbitrary.

[Psychotic]

Someone dying generates a lot of discussion, though. It's a red herring a lot of the time. Someone killed Formalhaut and he accused Psychotic of being scum. Is Psychotic silencing Formalhaut????!!? OR IS SOMEONE FRAMING HIM>!>!>!!? Yawn. Mafia can just sit back and let the town tie itself in boring circular knots about that one.

Also I agree about scattergunning. I'm not advocating a random vote, that would be incredibly dumb and arbitrary, yeah. I mean look if at the end of the day and there's really nobody sticking out then use novote as last resort but certainly don't use it as Plan A. Vote for some people, see what happens, take it from there. As town - particularly a town that isn't a power role - it's your duty to make your intentions and thoughts as public as possible. Don't keep it close to your chest, get it all out there and let people try to get a read on you. And hey, you can always take back your votes!

But it doesn't really apply 'cause in this game there's been a whole heap of stuff that sets red flags and to comment on. I'm glad I'm not playing because I'd be screaming at everyone. I can't play nice when I play mafia. :shobon:

[Freya]

I'm actually pretty sure there's been no lynch options in big EoFF mafia games before. It's fine, it's a worthwhile thing to have imho.

But as a strategy it's not one I would ever advocate. It's a playing-it-safe cop out for the town, along with the old favourite "Oh my god there's nothing to discuss on day one!" line that drives me up the wall. What are you waiting for? As if Day 2 "oh this person died during the night!" is somehow anywhere near as useful evidence as the lynch votes. Both the lynch and the discussion are the town's weapons and should be deployed accordingly. Silence and inaction helps the scum. Wo/man up and put your vote on someone. Nail your colours to the mast.
I'm with psy here.

Those who think nothing comes out of day one aren't paying enough attention. The way people vote, the way they push for or against a bandwagon, or whatever nonsense can tell a lot. Mafia want to remain mostly unknown, not giving themselves away while steering the town toward whomever else. Day one voting jump starts that before anyone even dies from lynching or a night action. Often times they even play their cards wrongly initially before they can identify who to support or not to support to seem the most innocent. sneaky sneaky mafia :cool:

[Formalhaut]

Also I agree about scattergunning. I'm not advocating a random vote, that would be incredibly dumb and arbitrary, yeah. I mean look if at the end of the day and there's really nobody sticking out then use novote as last resort but certainly don't use it as Plan A. Vote for some people, see what happens, take it from there. As town - particularly a town that isn't a power role - it's your duty to make your intentions and thoughts as public as possible. Don't keep it close to your chest, get it all out there and let people try to get a read on you. And hey, you can always take back your votes!


I understand that. I think part of it is a lack of experience. I'm sure you've seen like five or six comments to analyse For me, well, everyone seems nice enough. Not sure what else to discuss! Part of it is also knowing what even to say.

But honestly now I feel as if I'm planning outside the game thread too much so I'll stop here, and mull over the game once it has actually finished.


But it doesn't really apply 'cause in this game there's been a whole heap of stuff that sets red flags and to comment on. I'm glad I'm not playing because I'd be screaming at everyone. I can't play nice when I play mafia. :shobon:

I'm always nice and fairly agreeable when I play Mafia, so we'd get along along great :p

[Mr. Carnelian]

I know the game has already started, but I've been convinced to join in the fun. Any room for a late entry?

[Karifean]

Regarding No Death on Day 1, it's a very valid strategy to follow in this particular style of Mafia. I won't comment more on that since you're all new to this style =P


I know the game has already started, but I've been convinced to join in the fun. Any room for a late entry?

It's not impossible, but I'm a little too hesitant to allow it at this point. There would be no doubt that you are not any of the roles that are guaranteed to be in the game, so that's already a big problem.

We'll surely have another one at some point. Hope to see you then~

[Formalhaut]

Gah, I tried to convince him before sign-ups closed. Ugh, Mr. Carny, always so slow to sign-up to things. I practically forced him to take part in my own Secret Santa event. And I'm his boyfriend. Ugh. :p

[Karifean]

Honrstly, is it too late to make alt accounts? Cause that would be so much cooler! Roleplaying ftw!

Can we just leave that for another time? ^^;

[Fynn]

Sorry ^^;

[Shauna]

We actually have existing Mafia accounts that are used! Just a heads up if you want to do this again. :)

[Formalhaut]

We actually have existing Mafia accounts that are used! Just a heads up if you want to do this again. :)

Yeah, I thought we had dedicated alt accounts. Didn't they go like [M] something?

[Shauna]

Yep!

[Formalhaut]

Those were great times. I actually remember the two characters I played. The first mafia I played was an FF themed one, and I was Penelo. I was a Mafia, and I actually did pretty well! I got to the penultimate day, and the last to get lynched, if I remember correctly.

The other game, I was Dwayne Johnson. Not sure what the theme was, but I placed about halfway.

Those were some good games.

[Aerith's Knight]

The other game, I was Dwayne Johnson. Not sure what the theme was, but I placed about halfway.


YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT THE WRESTLING MAFIA, ROCK HOAGAN?

[Formalhaut]

The other game, I was Dwayne Johnson. Not sure what the theme was, but I placed about halfway.


YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT THE WRESTLING MAFIA, ROCK HOAGAN?

Oh, it was wrestling? I mean, I don't remember any other characters. It could've been an acting one for all I knew :p

[qwertysaur]

For what it's worth, I'm in the middle of a snowstorm and I just got a chance to go online today. Sorry. :shobon:

[Formalhaut]

For what it's worth, I'm in the middle of a snowstorm and I just got a chance to go online today. Sorry. :shobon:

These things happen! I'm glad you're okay though. Snowstorms can be pretty dangerous.

[Shauna]

This is also why we like using the mafia accounts. The host account has thread closing permissions.

[qwertysaur]

:(

[Karifean]

pats qwertysaur on the head

[Fox]

A moment of silence for our fallen comrade

[Formalhaut]

Yeah, it sucks being the first to leave a game. But you did well, Qwerty. :)

[Fynn]

RIP, Seifer. You will be missed.

[Psychotic]

I had been wondering how this was so different to the usual type of Mafia played. Actually meaningful flavour text? Interesting take on proceedings. I've never seen that done anywhere else, not just at EoFF but on other significant mafia sites I've played on too. And here you were calling us the weird ones Karifean! :p

That's not to say it's a bad thing - indeed, the more variety, the better. It does have gameplay implications worth considering. Certainly a no lynch strategy becomes more valid in this instance given that more information is available.

[Freya]

Yeah this is new. I feel with that info it'll be easier win scenarios. The game will go zoom by because of the extra info on each day

EDIT:

This is giving me an extra challenge though. Normally I have fun with the player accounts on trying to deduce who is playing who and without that, I had less interest of that second discovery game within the game. BUT now it's flipped and I know the people but I don't know their identity. So I get to play deduction again with their identities and that's fun for me, outside of the are they a good or bad guy deduction of the normal game.

[Scruffington]

Freya I think you've been misunderstanding me and what I look for in a mafia game.

You and I have always been on the same side when it comes to things getting revealed in the flavor texts. They should always only reveal which faction is committing a murder. That's the entire purpose of a death post. If no death occurs, the post just reads "No one died! The next day has begun."

It should always address the killer by their alignment, not their identity or role in the game (i.e. Serial Killer or Mafia). Additionally all investigative actions should not be made public and only communicated to the players performing said actions.

I think in the future it would be a good idea to have a blanket rule that states "Nothing in the Death/Day Posts is necessarily reflective of the characters performing the actions." Or write the posts in a way that doesn't reveal who did what.

[Fynn]

Except from the very beginning Larofean detailed exactly how this mafia would look. It's a different take that requires different strategies to normal mafia, and honestly, I find it really refreshing!

[FFNut]

I to am enjoying it. Trying to read between the lines on everything said, and questioning everything. Going through all possibilities in my head.

[Formalhaut]

I'm just going with the flow. I've played Mafia the 'usual' way, and now I'm playing it differently. I'm kinda reserving judgement on which I prefer until we've actually finished Karifean's game :p

[Fox]

I like the flavour text as is.

There's certainly a good argument that it's 'giving away too much' and it may end up being unbalanced as hell, but it kinda adds a layer of a murder mystery RPG to the whole thing. It's like we're being led through an adventure by a DM and there are external clues to find, rather than leaving it purely up to the interactions of the participants. And honestly I think there's good reasons to try it like that as well - I've played plenty of Secret Hitler that just descends into circular arguments, baseless accusations and shouting matches because deducing the truth from player's behaviour alone proves to be too difficult.

[Fynn]

Exactly. There's actual clues you need to follow up on and there's stuff you can deduce from, while other elements are more ambiguous to even this out.

[Psychotic]

I've never seen it in a mafia game before - and for the record I've never seen what Scruffington describes either - but I would wait to pass judgment until the game is over. It's fun to experiment and try new things. Give it a go, throw yourself into it wholeheartedly and forget about the meta until it's all over.

[Freya]

Freya I think you've been misunderstanding me and what I look for in a mafia game.

You and I have always been on the same side when it comes to things getting revealed in the flavor texts. They should always only reveal which faction is committing a murder. That's the entire purpose of a death post. If no death occurs, the post just reads "No one died! The next day has begun."

It should always address the killer by their alignment, not their identity or role in the game (i.e. Serial Killer or Mafia). Additionally all investigative actions should not be made public and only communicated to the players performing said actions.

I think in the future it would be a good idea to have a blanket rule that states "Nothing in the Death/Day Posts is necessarily reflective of the characters performing the actions." Or write the posts in a way that doesn't reveal who did what.
Well,

Karifean added in the identities and flavor text as a new way to play the game. This is his choice on how to play this game and we are all going along with it by accepting to play with him as a game mod. This is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game and it may not be traditional but it is how this game is working. Try to embrace the new way and play it through! Maybe we'll have another game that is more traditional if there's enough people who keep their interest in it.

[Scruffington]

Well,

Karifean added in the identities and flavor text as a new way to play the game. This is his choice on how to play this game and we are all going along with it by accepting to play with him as a game mod. This is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game and it may not be traditional but it is how this game is working. Try to embrace the new way and play it through! Maybe we'll have another game that is more traditional if there's enough people who keep their interest in it.

Oh I understand that. I think I enjoy the flavor text and the characters in this game.

I was just thinking about what I would like to see in future mafia games.

[Formalhaut]

Well, stick around. I actually already have an idea for an Ace Attorney themed game, and I'd love to host a Mafia at some point!

[Fynn]

Ugh

Not AA

[Freya]

We did one of those! It was fun!

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/c/ca/Phoenix_Objection.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130329201545 http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/animalcrossing/images/7/75/Objection.gif/revision/20131029171912

this was also like 10 years ago hahahah

[Formalhaut]

Oh come on, Fynn. Optional pun-based humour is optional. And it really works as a theme.

[Fynn]

Can't we just stick to FF? Something we all know? And tolerate?

[Scruffington]

I'd love an Ace Attorney mafia. I'm down.



Ugh

Not AA

How the hell do you not like AA.

[Formalhaut]

Ooh, maybe some Nordic Noir? Or a cluedo themed game? I'm just throwing out ideas. If people don't want a theme, we don't have to do a theme. FF works well.

Actually, assuming that the identities revealed so far are largely accurate, there's been quite a good mix of characters. Good job, Karifean!

[Karifean]

Can't we just stick to FF? Something we all know? And tolerate?

I was actually also thinking of going with something nobody here knows =P though I figured FF would be a simple one to start off.

[Fynn]

I'd love an Ace Attorney mafia. I'm down.



Ugh

Not AA

How the hell do you not like AA.

How the hell anyone likes it is the real question

[Aerith's Knight]

Kingdom Hearts themed!

Except no Disney characters. They are incredibly annoying in KH.

Except maybe Dark-Mickey. Badass

[FFNut]

I would love to see not just Final Fantasy, but a whole Square Enix themed one where we bring in all the people from around the SE universe.

[Formalhaut]

Maybe Dragon Quest themed?

I mean, I've never played it before, but it makes people happy, and honestly theme is just set-dressing.

[Fynn]

Ha. I'd love a DQ game of mafia, but I know a lot of people don't care about it and the reason Is like to stick with FF is familiarity

Also, if we stuck with this format, you could basically describe half the characters as "black-haired youth"

[Shauna]

The last Mafia looks like it was Katamari Damacy themed, going by the alt accounts. It doesn't have to be a well known or popular thing.

You should check out the archives of games we've had to see the range of themes.

[Freya]

Handy link (http://home.eyesonff.com/forumdisplay.php/103-Mafia) of the archives for convenience. Some of the threads are confusing to follow since the accounts were used for different games. So the accounts don't line up with the votes.

[Psychotic]

I really hope it's like, Zidane or Gogo and not Faris.

[Fynn]

How is Zidane androgynous? At least, in a way that the game acknowledges that?

[Scruffington]

Cloud is pretty androgynous too.

[Psychotic]

How is Zidane androgynous? At least, in a way that the game acknowledges that?Now that you've responded so sharply I'm questioning this, but for some reason I have it in my head that all the genomes don't have a biological sex.

[Fynn]

Having just beaten IX, I can confirm that they definitely do have biological sex.

[Psychotic]

The way you wrote that implied there's a secret yaoi ending.

[Fynn]

In Bran Bal, Zidane actually asks the genomes why they look like they have distinct genders and they said that once they get souls they start aging and need to propagate in order to take over Gaia or something. So having biological sex is kind of necessary for that. And no, Zidane is just a nice guy who went out of his way to help out his brother, omg :roll2


That, and there's Himiko, who is clearly female.

[Fox]

In Bran Bal, Zidane actually asks the genomes why they look like they have distinct genders and they said that once they get souls they start aging and need to propagate in order to take over Gaia or something. So having biological sex is kind of necessary for that. And no, Zidane is just a nice guy who went out of his way to help out his brother, omg :roll2


That, and there's Himiko, who is clearly female.

*Mikoto.

Honestly Fynn you just played it. xD

[Fynn]

Be glad I didn't call her Hachiko or something XD

[Psychotic]

See with her I thought she just chose to identify as female. Though given that both Vivi and Eiko have seen Zidane's trouser snake I guess we can rule out the idea of genomes being like a Barbie doll.

[Fynn]

More baffling is that apparently Vivi has a ding-dong

[Formalhaut]

Do you find this out over the course of FFIX? Sheesh, that's one sub-plot I didn't see coming.

[Fynn]

Oh no, a boy has a penis

I'm sorry to deliver such shocking news to you, Formy

[Fox]

Do you find this out over the course of FFIX? Sheesh, that's one sub-plot I didn't see coming.

Pretty much!

https://www.destructoid.com/ul/289609-experience-points-09-final-fantasy-ix/ff9tinkletinkle-noscale.jpg

[Formalhaut]

Tinkle tinkle, indeed. Is that even the sound a penis makes? Is this even ground we should be treading? Forget I asked.

[Fynn]

Ugh

It's the sound of them having a tinkle. Zidane and Vivi have a bonding scene that involves tinkling. It's very sweet and very funny because Eiko's listening in and when she realizes what's going on she has the same exact response as you.

Btw, you DO realize that not playing FFIX within a specific time is a punishable offense on this forum? I'd not waste any more time, if I were you

[Formalhaut]

I just didn't think in a game about saving the world, a toilet break would feature as a scene, that's all. :p

Also, you seem to be getting highly flustered over what is a light-hearted discussion. It's just a small thing, you know.

[Freya]

Wait, you haven't played IX, Formy?!

This is a punishable offense.

[Fox]

I may have to change my lynch vote in the other thread this is so bad

[Formalhaut]

I thought everyone knew I haven't played FFIX yet? It's not like I've kept it a secret the five or so years I've been on EoFF.

Bloody hell that is a long time.

[Fox]

I thought everyone knew I haven't played FFIX yet? It's not like I've kept it a secret the five or so years I've been on EoFF.
.

I assumed it was a running joke!!

[Fynn]

Formy' only played like VII and X. It's absolutely revolting.

[Freya]

Some one gift him it on steam, this must be rectified.

[Fynn]

I don't think he has Steam


This only gets worse with every post

[Formalhaut]

I actually have a Steam account.

I just barely use it. If someone wants to gift me it, sure, free game. I want to reject the notion that I'm deliberately avoiding playing FFIX. I've just never had the opportunity.

[Shauna]

shadow doesn't fit the narrative

http://forum.thepars.club/uploads/monthly_2016_06/resized_still-game-meme-generator-get-it-right-up-ye-eadac0.jpg.21e6c3ff8724786db4248c98d86bd2ac.jpg

Good luck town!

[Freya]

They're gonna lose so badly xD

I MEAN I LOVE YOU ALL :kaoclove:

[Psychotic]

Look I'm just going to ban the heathen at this point so we can all move on with our lives.

Also, town. Wow. Wow. xD

[qwertysaur]

Town. Get your act together. Love, Seifer

[Formalhaut]

71577

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[Psychotic]

So assuming there's 2 mafia and the poor ol' Doc gets offed, I do believe it'll be lynch or lose for town tomorrow. Tomorrow will see 4 town with 2 mafia -> town lynched = 3 town -> town night killed = 2 town. gg.

So, uh, no pressure :p

[Shauna]

Coincidentally, if no-one corrected me over my misreading, this wouldn't have happened. So thanks, FACTS.

Why would I want you to go to sleep believing a lie? Misinformation only harms the town in the long run! Only mafia succeed in lies.

- Ghost of Shadow

[Freya]

This white knight is going to get blitz before they get offed. Drinks for everyone at the local dissidia pub!

[Shauna]

I think I'll drink...

...
...

Spirits

[Karifean]

I think I'll drink...

...
...

Spirits

Get out.

[Freya]

I can't seem to remember a time where I got lynched as a townie.

I have a trout memory too though. But I don't think I've ever been town lynched that I can recall. Psy, you remember these things better, has that happened to me?

I think I always get night murdered.

[Karifean]

I can't seem to remember a time where I got lynched as a townie.

I have a trout memory too though. But I don't think I've ever been town lynched that I can recall. Psy, you remember these things better, has that happened to me?

I think I always get night murdered.

Count yourself lucky. If you keep playing with the same people, eventually they'll start lynching you on Day 2 because "since you didn't die during the night you must be a Mafia" Xx

[Shauna]

Freya, I was super amused when you said that I'm always mafia. I think I've been mafia maybe once or twice. I remember one time I was a second good faction! But yeah, I'm town more often than not. xD

[Formalhaut]

In my only two previous games, I was Mafia. And boy, daytime phases were easy. Just playing along, no deductive reasoning required.

[Freya]

Freya, I was super amused when you said that I'm always mafia. I think I've been mafia maybe once or twice. I remember one time I was a second good faction! But yeah, I'm town more often than not. xD
I have trout memory and only remember your mafia plays xD Which were way more in-depth than the way you were playing this round.

[FFNut]

This is my first mafia. No more mistakes for Nutty.

[Formalhaut]

Mistakes are going to happen regardless, I think. I wouldn't worry about it, Nutty!

[Shauna]

Freya, I was super amused when you said that I'm always mafia. I think I've been mafia maybe once or twice. I remember one time I was a second good faction! But yeah, I'm town more often than not. xD
I have trout memory and only remember your mafia plays xD Which were way more in-depth than the way you were playing this round.

I was looking through the archives, and the Katamari Damacy Mafia win was all me. It looks like I had to do a heck of a lot of work there to get that through. That's the only successful play I had as mafia. xD

[Formalhaut]

Is it easier to win as Mafia or Town? I mean, there's less Mafia, but then there's all sort of balancing mechanics. I'd be interesting to see the win-loss ratio. I'm sure that'd make a great graph.

Hmm, I wonder where BoB is?

[Freya]

As mafia, it depends. The first few day lynches are mostly pure speculation if you don't do anything outright scummy. People wont be able to pin-point exactly what is what in terms of voting patterns.

Since you're not hunting yourselves down, you're looking for power players. There's less of a pool to pull from compared to the townies. Power players being a) they have a power or b) they are showing to be very observant and are becoming a problem. Mafia will want to take them out first. Taking them off right off the bat is the best idea. That way there's no ties to you via day talk and them. Which is probably why qwerty got the ax right away.

The more the type B power player points fingers and connects the dots, the more incriminating your night kill will be. So if they're getting close, too close for comfort, and you kill them, that just reaffirms their finger pointing. But you can't leave them alive because they are swaying the town with their skills. So it's best to knock them out early as you can when realizing how they post.

And of course, you don't want the actual powers floating around. A doctor will protect a potential kill, wasting your night. A investigator will possibly out you as a mafiaso. So they're prime targets too.

If you can knock out your Type A and Type B power players early on, it's smooth sailing.

If you lay low, but not too low, you can successfully mafiaso the whole thing. Provide enough content to not seem like a baddie and you're participating but not too much to seem like you're intentionally swaying the public toward town lynches. Just a "oops, I could have sworn!"

The best tactic as town is to A) get people talking so they'll trip up while b) Laying low so you don't reveal yourself as a power player.


AT LEAST IN MY EXPERIENCE

Sometimes though, it's all about luck in the beginning.

[Shauna]

I think on EoFF we have more town wins overall. We'll see where this one falls. ;)

[Shauna]

You know what's bad about being dead? When you have your own brainwave and realise you can't share. ;_;

[qwertysaur]

Welcome to the club Shauna. I wanted to say so much. :/

[Karifean]

PM me your rants =P

[Del Murder]

Interesting game so far, yes the town has failed horribly but they still have a chance. At the end of Day 1 I had about 75% confidence in one person being mafia with more of a gut feel on the other. They are both still alive so we will see how it plays out. The added flavor text does make things interesting and also confusing, as is using your real account with a hidden character identity. In a smaller game like this, I also like that the possible roles were all laid out. Adds a different layer of strategy. Some cool innovations so far Karif.

[Freya]

I TRIED SO HARD, AND GOT SO FAR,

IN THE END

IT DOESN"T EVEN MATTER ~~~~~~

#emo Linkin Park Cecil

#i've turned back into dark cecil in anguish of being murdered

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/0/0c/Cecil_Dark_Knight_EX.png/revision/20101218064210

[Karifean]

A valiant effort. o7

[Formalhaut]

You protected me? Pfft. The Mafia must love me, running my mouth and getting you and Shauna killed.

There are better targets to protect :p

[Psychotic]

If the Doctor couldn't self protect then may as well roll a dice to decide who to protect - she was gonna die no matter what.

Anyway, I'm gonna root for the mafia now, you fine folk deserve it!

[Freya]

:gator: I knew i was a dead knight walking, it didn't really matter who I protected besides myself, which I couldn't do so I just :gator:ed it.

[Formalhaut]

This game is really doing numbers for my self-confidence. :shobon:

[Del Murder]

I'd go so far to say as inaction is actually beneficial, especially early game when it's saturated with players. It's hard to be suspicious when people forget you are there.
I hate inaction. More often than not, they are actually town-aligned and just busy/apathetic, but I'll go after them all the same. I played up the inaction angle as a mafia member one time and it worked well until I just couldn't help myself. It's just not very fun to be purposefully inactive.

[Formalhaut]

Fynn raised a point in the game thread that I thought was worth talking about.

So Fynn; how many games of Mafia have you played? It'd be interesting to know who's really new and who's played it before, both on EoFF and elsewhere. For me, this'll be my third time overall.

[Fynn]

I had never played a forum mafia. I've played countless games of irl mafia in the past during choir trips, school excursions and friendly sleepovers. It's been a good couple of years since I've played, though

[Shauna]

In terms of games of EoFF, I've only played 7 out of the whopping 25-30 games that have been run.

[FFNut]

I never heard of the game before people said lets play Mafia. Day one and two blunders came of feeling out the game. Will do better from this point out.

[Formalhaut]

I've never played IRL Mafia. How is it run different to forum Mafia?

[Fynn]

Basically, no PM'ing means the game is much faster and simpler. The game master first says something like "nightfall, town goes to sleep" and everyone closes their eyes. Then they say "Mafia wakes up" and only the mafia open their eyes while all the others have theirs closed. They have to non-verbally communicate who they want to kill. And later on, the same is repeated for the town roles - the catani, as we called what you called the doctor, chooses who to protect, and the courtesan chooses who to check if they're mafia, and they don't know anything about anyone else.

So basically, lots of eyes closing and opening, non-verbal communication at nighttime, and then lynching at daytime. Usually there's a greater percentage of mafia than what we have here since it's kind of easier for them to die.

[Formalhaut]

Ooh, sounds like fun.

Now all I need is a group of... oh, right.

Im guessing there's less emphasis on reading tells in posts as well. Are you allowed to take notes? Because I can see memory being a problem later on.

[Fynn]

Probably depends. Nobody took notes when we did it since we essentially treated it as a party game, but if you want to get super serious, you can state notes are recommended at the beginning of the game.

[Psychotic]

I'd love to play it IRL sometime! I've just resorted to the online versions, playing on EoFF, Something Awful and mafia scum. I didn't really like playing on mafia scum, infuriatingly slow!

After this game is finished, if there's interest I'd be happy to host maybe a quick weekend game if a group of people would all be online for 2-3 hours. That or a week long game that would be paced quite similarly to this one. I'd even dust off the old mafia accounts!

[Shauna]

We'll just have another get together at my house and we'll play Mafia then. Unless you're too sick again. :colbert:

[Fynn]

If you pay for the tickets :p

Unless it's just for the U.K. crowd :colbert:

[Shauna]

Endless paid to travel from France. Nae excuses. ;)

[Fynn]

But I'm saving for a house!

[Freya]

Hey, someone pay for me to go there to play too!

[Psychotic]

We'll just have another get together at my house and we'll play Mafia then. Unless you're too sick again. :colbert:I'm always too sick. *720 noscope kickflip* :cool:

[Scruffington]

I'd go so far to say as inaction is actually beneficial, especially early game when it's saturated with players. It's hard to be suspicious when people forget you are there.
I hate inaction. More often than not, they are actually town-aligned and just busy/apathetic, but I'll go after them all the same. I played up the inaction angle as a mafia member one time and it worked well until I just couldn't help myself. It's just not very fun to be purposefully inactive.

Many games (including ones I've run) have had inactivity punishments.

The most common way is to have a minimum posts per day phase rule: if a player does not post a minimum of 3 times during the day phase, they will receive a warning. If they do not achieve the minimum of 3 posts per day for the rest of the game, they will be killed.

[Freya]

I think we've done self votes. Complusive voting. So if you don't vote, you're voting for yourself.

We also use second accounts here so if say someone wanted to play but was too late, if someone is inactive, we kick them off and let the new person step in. That wont happen toward the end of the game but if it's the beginning day or so, we have done that.

[Formalhaut]

I think we should have Mafia games more often. It's been over two years since the last game, which is a travesty. I'm always up for playing games!

[Shauna]

We should! Up until that last game, they happened like quarterly. xD

I think it's just the pressure of hosting that stops us getting more games out. Even just little games as opposed to big ones. Although, it is the 30th FF Anniversary this year, maybe we could do another anniversary game. Much to ponder.

Which reminds me, it's the year of the 30th Anniversary of FF. Should probably plan things to do. xD

[Fynn]

UGh, don't remind me XD


But yeah, we need more of these. And different kinds! Fast and slow ones, ones that give away a lot of info and ones that don't give away anything, alt-accounts and no alt-accounts. We can do it! :D

[Formalhaut]

I feel like I should actually get down to the Events committee and do some planning! I've actually got an idea for a forum game that was done very successfully a few years ago that might be fun.

[Fynn]

Just please do t let it be AA-themed

[Shauna]

make it ace attorney themed

[Formalhaut]

I've never known someone feel so strongly about a video game series before.

Don't worry, it isn't AA-themed :)

I'll write up about it in the Events page. Might also start something else up today if I have time in Timber Maniacs.

[Fynn]

:stare:

[Fynn]

I don't feel strongly about the game. I feel strongly about its madly undeserved popularity.

[Psychotic]

We already had an AA themed mafia so you can't ever do it again :colbert:

[Shauna]

You just have to go more obscure.

[Formalhaut]

It's probably the wrong place to mentioned that I'm currently playing an AA game now :p Don't glare at me!

I feel like whoever is hosting the next Mafia should run the theme by everyone so they aren't themselves killed off in the night.

[Shauna]

Nobody cares what the theme is except from Fynn. It just makes it more interesting when playing with Alt accounts!

[Fynn]

He, I'm just being a grump, most themes I'll be perfectly fine with :D

[FFNut]

I can agree with Shauna that alt accounts no matter what the theme would be a blast.

[Karifean]

You just have to go more obscure.

Agreed. Make it When They Cry themed.

[Fynn]

We'll go with the DQ theme Formy mentioned after that ;)

[Formalhaut]

What actually is When They Cry?

[Fynn]

It's a conditional clause, establishing a condition with the subordinate clause detailing the outcome should the condition be met.

[Freya]

Make everyone minecraft blocks and the game master is regular old Steve.

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/minecraft.gamepedia.com/9/97/Diamond_Ore.png?version=e07fac4163b8041f1e03f2b4d9b45314

Your flavor text can be creepers blowing them up.

[Karifean]

What actually is When They Cry?

..............................................

.......................................

................................

..........................

...................

..............

..........

......

walks off to cry in a corner

[Fynn]

It's a conditional clause, establishing a condition with the subordinate clause detailing the outcome should the condition be met.




What actually is When They Cry?

..............................................

.......................................

................................

..........................

...................

..............

..........

......

walks off to cry in a corner


Exemplified here.

When they cry, they go into a corner and make a scene.

[Formalhaut]

What actually is When They Cry?

..............................................

.......................................

................................

..........................

...................

..............

..........

......

walks off to cry in a corner

Oh, so it's about people being disappointed in me. I get it now!

[Karifean]

I need to establish a new rule for the next game.

If you break the game master's heart, you get modkilled.

[Fynn]

I need to establish a new rule for the next game.

If you break the game master's heart, you get modkilled.

Formy's dead, then

[Psychotic]

What actually is When They Cry?In all seriousness I would like Karifean's answer. There was a thread a few months ago where both he and Ultima Shadow praised it as a fantastic experience and so I was curious and looked it up on Steam but didn't quite get it - are there others in the series you need to experience first, or? I saw someone had done a LP on YouTube and thought about watching it wasn't sure if it was the right thing.

[Fynn]

It's a visual novel. Apparently a pretty big deal. Karifean likes it so much he gifted it to me on Steam

[Fynn]

That reminds me - we totally need to do a Danganronpa-themed Mafia, especially since that game is pretty much Mafia: The Game as it is

[Del Murder]

That reminds me - we totally need to do a Danganronpa-themed Mafia, especially since that game is pretty much Mafia: The Game as it is
Ha! It is.

As to irl mafia: I've played it several times and it is very fun but very different than what we do. First of all, there are only basic roles like cop and doc and no elaborate roles like Terrorist or whatever, though technically I guess those could be put in. It is also very fast paced. A day phase lasts like 5 minutes and once the town has come to a consensus they pretty much lynch the guy. No cries of 'SPEEDLYNCH = MAFIA!' or waiting around for the full day phase to discuss as much as possible, which I think hurts the momentum of the game in the later stages. There's also no way to verify if someone lied or was inconsistent since you don't have a history of their statements, so you can get away with a lot more, but it also adds the aspect of physical cues to help you tell if someone's lying.

I really like what we've built in EoFF mafia which is a much more cerebral game than the irl version. The second accounts also add the roleplaying aspect that is fun. Karif added a new layer which is kind of like a 'whodoneit' detective game where you have to decipher clues in addition to what people tell you. There are irl versions of that type of game too though I've never played it. My only complaint of our version is that it goes so slowly especially later on when there are fewer players with a lot of the more vocal ones have been killed.

[Shauna]

What actually is When They Cry?In all seriousness I would like Karifean's answer. There was a thread a few months ago where both he and Ultima Shadow praised it as a fantastic experience and so I was curious and looked it up on Steam but didn't quite get it - are there others in the series you need to experience first, or? I saw someone had done a LP on YouTube and thought about watching it wasn't sure if it was the right thing.

When They Cry is a series of Visual Novels, Higurashi: When They Cry (Parts 1 & 2), and Umineko: When They Cry (Parts 1 & 2). There's... four chapters of Higurashi available on Steam which I believe is the entirety of the first part, as well as the first part of Umineko. They are mystery supernatural thriller tales.

I have never actually read the visual novels, but the anime for Higurashi was more than enough to get me wanting to sink my teeth ~eventually~.

(Karifean will correct anything wrong I have said here and probably expand further on certain things)

[Formalhaut]

Oh, I've heard of Umineko! I wasn't aware it was part of a wider series.

About the length of the day system: maybe the time is reduced on each successive day? Nothing drastic, like halving it each time, but maybe thirding it, or some other percentage. The Night Sections can be reduced by saying the Night is over after all Night Action Roles have confirmed their intention to use or not use an action.

[Fynn]

If we do the Danganronpa thing, we could do it like it sometimes happened in the game - Monokuma (the host) could sometimes just get bored and just cut the day short without warning. To keep players on edge ;)

[Del Murder]

Well, the night phase should always be very quick, unless day ends in an odd hour for some time zones. Individual night actions should take seconds to make and the mafia does not need several hours do determine a kill. Shortening the day phase during later stages may be good but it can't be too short since we have a lot of members on very different schedules and everyone should have a chance to participate. What bugs me more is when there is a consensus on who people will be voting for and we just leave the day open until the time limit to see if anyone decides to hang themselves with the time left or if some mafia on the chopping block slips up and outs their comrades.

The slowness really boils down to fewer number of players in the late stages who still may be in different time zones. Not really much we can do about that I think.

[Del Murder]

If we do the Danganronpa thing, we could do it like it sometimes happened in the game - Monokuma (the host) could sometimes just get bored and just cut the day short without warning. To keep players on edge ;)
That would be fun, as long as the players understand this in the beginning so no one gets butthurt if they are the victim of his antics. ;)

[Formalhaut]

Well, the night phase should always be very quick, unless day ends in an odd hour for some time zones. Individual night actions should take seconds to make and the mafia does not need several hours do determine a kill. Shortening the day phase during later stages may be good but it can't be too short since we have a lot of members on very different schedules and everyone should have a chance to participate. What bugs me more is when there is a consensus on who people will be voting for and we just leave the day open until the time limit to see if anyone decides to hang themselves with the time left or if some mafia on the chopping block slips up and outs their comrades.

The slowness really boils down to fewer number of players in the late stages who still may be in different time zones. Not really much we can do about that I think.Yeah, time zones is a good point. The Night can definitely be shortened.

Funnily enough, leaving the day open until the time limit is actually what's happening now. But I'm giving the Day 24 hours, not the usual 48.

[Freya]

I think once all Night Actions are in, bam day starts. No need to wait when everything is all ready.

[Formalhaut]

And honestly I'm just waiting for Aerith's Knight to post something today :p

[Karifean]

What actually is When They Cry?In all seriousness I would like Karifean's answer. There was a thread a few months ago where both he and Ultima Shadow praised it as a fantastic experience and so I was curious and looked it up on Steam but didn't quite get it - are there others in the series you need to experience first, or? I saw someone had done a LP on YouTube and thought about watching it wasn't sure if it was the right thing.

When They Cry is a series of Visual Novels, Higurashi: When They Cry (Parts 1 & 2), and Umineko: When They Cry (Parts 1 & 2). There's... four chapters of Higurashi available on Steam which I believe is the entirety of the first part, as well as the first part of Umineko. They are mystery supernatural thriller tales.

I have never actually read the visual novels, but the anime for Higurashi was more than enough to get me wanting to sink my teeth ~eventually~.

(Karifean will correct anything wrong I have said here and probably expand further on certain things)

You got it.

I would've responded earlier, but I decided to just write up a blog post for this matter, see here: http://home.eyesonff.com/entry.php/6187-What-actually-is-When-They-Cry

[Freya]

TECHNICALLY you'll have the next day phase to lose lose, depending on Karifean's win condition preference. If you guys hit a town with a lynch and a town at night, the next day will start 2 v 2 They still aren't the majority at that point. They would just have to convince one townie to vote the other townie. the townies can both vote for a mafia though and be at a stalemate. All they have to do is convince one person to vote for the pro town player.

Honestly it depends on the GM. Some will say mafia win at the even point but others make them fight it out. :gator:

[Formalhaut]

Town has decided.

I'm fine with losing, I just don't want to lose a perfect game. Let us at least snatch one Mafia. Lynching only town is just... sad.

[Formalhaut]

Where's the "place your head in a paper bag" smiley?

[Fox]

This is going to be a fun night phase

"Someone was going to be murdered but then it turned out everyone remaining in town had killed themselves out of shame".

[Karifean]

TECHNICALLY you'll have the next day phase to lose lose, depending on Karifean's win condition preference. If you guys hit a town with a lynch and a town at night, the next day will start 2 v 2 They still aren't the majority at that point. They would just have to convince one townie to vote the other townie. the townies can both vote for a mafia though and be at a stalemate. All they have to do is convince one person to vote for the pro town player.

Honestly it depends on the GM. Some will say mafia win at the even point but others make them fight it out. :gator:

Win conditions are in the original post. As soon as the number of Mafia is equal to or higher than the number of townies, the Mafia win.

[Formalhaut]

TECHNICALLY you'll have the next day phase to lose lose, depending on Karifean's win condition preference. If you guys hit a town with a lynch and a town at night, the next day will start 2 v 2 They still aren't the majority at that point. They would just have to convince one townie to vote the other townie. the townies can both vote for a mafia though and be at a stalemate. All they have to do is convince one person to vote for the pro town player.

Honestly it depends on the GM. Some will say mafia win at the even point but others make them fight it out. :gator:

Win conditions are in the original post. As soon as the number of Mafia is equal to or higher than the number of townies, the Mafia win.

Well, congratulations, Mafia!

[Freya]

TECHNICALLY you'll have the next day phase to lose lose, depending on Karifean's win condition preference. If you guys hit a town with a lynch and a town at night, the next day will start 2 v 2 They still aren't the majority at that point. They would just have to convince one townie to vote the other townie. the townies can both vote for a mafia though and be at a stalemate. All they have to do is convince one person to vote for the pro town player.

Honestly it depends on the GM. Some will say mafia win at the even point but others make them fight it out. :gator:

Win conditions are in the original post. As soon as the number of Mafia is equal to or higher than the number of townies, the Mafia win.
Oh! I re-read it and didn't see where that was posted but I see now, I must have ignored it cause of the font color difference.

[FFNut]

Congratulations to the Mafia. They played it well. Now that I know what to do and not to do I will be a stronger player next time.

[Formalhaut]

Seriously though, once this is all said and done (in 24 hours time), can expert Mafia break down where I went wrong? Because I really need to learn how to read posts inquisitively and suss out suspicious activity. Gosh, first time playing town and I fail to spot a single Mafia? It's pathetic.

[Fox]

I'm curious to see if we were led astray by any of the flavour text. Maybe I was ruling things out that actually hadn't been ruled out, and it had been designed to be read with more suspicion? It's funny, after the first night we were all "Oh I wonder if this'll make things too easy for the town?"

NOPE

[Formalhaut]

Just published my closing thoughts. Basically, I feel as if Day Two was the turning point where things went horribly wrong, and Day Three was just fallout. By carefully crafting a two-man bandwagon of Shauna/Nutty, whoever 'won' and wasn't lynched would end up being lynched without question the following day, out of reaction to the failed lynch.

[Fox]

I feel like being an incompetent town has given me really good practice at being a successful mafia in the future

[Formalhaut]

I feel like being an incompetent town has given me really good practice at being a successful mafia in the future

How often have you played, Fox? I was just curious.

[Fox]

I feel like being an incompetent town has given me really good practice at being a successful mafia in the future

How often have you played, Fox? I was just curious.

First time in this style. I played half a dozen tabletop games of Secret Hitler before.

[Formalhaut]

I feel like being an incompetent town has given me really good practice at being a successful mafia in the future

How often have you played, Fox? I was just curious.

First time in this style. I played half a dozen tabletop games of Secret Hitler before.

Is Secret Hitler like IRL Mafia, or is there another rule change?

[Fox]

I feel like being an incompetent town has given me really good practice at being a successful mafia in the future

How often have you played, Fox? I was just curious.

First time in this style. I played half a dozen tabletop games of Secret Hitler before.

Is Secret Hitler like IRL Mafia, or is there another rule change?

There are some extra rules. You have two teams, liberal and fascist, and you are each trying to get your policies passed. You take it in turns to be president, the president nominates a chancellor (everyone votes to allow the election or not) and gives them two policy cards. The chancellor returns one card to the deck and plays the other one, revealing if it is liberal of fascist.

So there's a lot of extra steps where you can introduce suspicion. There's a lot of "I gave him a fascist and a liberal card and he played the fascist!" "No you didn't you gave me two fascist cards!" that gets thrown around. So it's a very different game, despite being based on the same principles.

[Karifean]

Secret Hitler is probably my favorite board game overall. It's also a secret identity game like Mafia, but plays rather differrently and fixes a lot of the problems. Mainly these three things:

- People do not die early on. There is a maximum of two kills per game and they happen fairly late in the game if at all.
- Townies are not imbalanced; there are no special powers.
- There is no need for a game master, which is pretty cool in a live tabletop round.

While the basic setup is the same every game, there's an element of randomness that makes every game feel different. The only downside is that Secret Hitler is a game for 5-10 players, no more, no less, and the game kinda sucks with exactly 6 players too.

If you want, and a couple other people feel inclined to join as well, we can play some rounds of Secret Hitler on Tabletop Simulator (can be bought on Steam) sometime. It'll be fun.

[Formalhaut]

Sounds fun! I'd love to play more board games and other games with you guys. Bickering about rules aside, you all seem like a great bunch.

And I love playing games, but it's always so difficult to get people to play party games like these.

[FFNut]

Even though I was lynched today I had a blast playing with you guys and look forward to playing next time already.

[Psychotic]

Everyone was far too obsessed with the flavour text for their own good.

[Fox]

Everyone was far too obsessed with the flavour text for their own good.

Maybe so, however it was the only thing that could provide trustworthy, factual information. If we did it all again, even after this miserable failure, I don't think I would change that aspect of my approach.

[Psychotic]

But it's clearly not trustworthy! :p

[Fox]

But it's clearly not trustworthy! :p

The source is trustworthy, it's my interpretation of it that failed!

[Shauna]

Shadow had one dying wish and that was for you all to talk, and use the time that you had to gather all the information to maximum potential. Why wouldn't you wait for a confirmed investigator to come in and provide his results? What the heck? He still had a day to surface.

Since the game is over, I will post some things! Namely, my deductions that I sent through to Karifean on Night 2, following my death (he can confirm receipt of this if you don't believe it):


I will take you up on your offer of listening to the deductions of the dead. Enjoy~


I missed this post entirely because it was so close to my death, and it would have made no difference either way if I had analysed it in time, but.


I don't believe Nut or Shauna is mafia.

This makes no sense. None whatsoever. Given the situation he had to believe one of us was mafia. From his point of view, there were a total of four possible girls in play.

FFNut (Lenna)
AK (Faris)
Scruffy (Garnet)
Me (I am Shadow, but there were doubts on his side that this was true)

Given that Faris could not be the killer as she had performed an investigative action that leaves the three of us. One of us has to be mafia. Scruffy cannot claim to be town, while claiming that both myself and FFNut are town. It just cannot work. And Scruffy is a smart player, he should know this, and I'm sure he does - he's just counting on the town overlooking it, which I am confident they will.

If he were town, he really should have been all over the FFNut bandwagon, because it would save his skin if FFNut flipped mafia. But he wasn't. Because he knew FFNut would flip town, and that would leave him as the only female who was available to kill qwerty in Night One.

I mean, either FFNut or myself being lynched is fine for him and the mafia.

If FFNut went, I would garner all the bad press and probably be lynched under accusations of not being Shadow and being a lying female character.

Now that I'm gone, they'll heap all the blame onto FFNut, primarily thanks to my efforts (it's not my fault he was being so shady :colbert: )

Both of us are town, and both of us would act as scapegoats in Day 3, leading to a Mafia victory. Well, it will, unless the Mafia do something stupid like not take out Freya and instead target her target.

So yeah. New theory is Scruffy is mafia. Don't know who his partner is. Either AK or Fynn.



Going back to something that Formy asked earlier - is it easier to win as mafia or town? They each have their own difficulties.

To be a good mafia, you have to lie convincingly all the time. Playing mafia is playing a lie. If you get caught, you need to come up with a new lie to explain that away, and another, and so on. Lying and convincing deflection.

And that is why town need to talk. Because if they encounter something that doesn't quite fit, they should ask about it. Mafia lies become obvious when they have to keep covering up for themselves, eventually they will slip up. Town have no reason to lie, excepting protecting their power roles. Asking questions is not the same as suspecting someone. Town falls into its usual defensive stance when this comes up - why are you questioning my motives, that means you think I am mafia and I am not therefore you are mafia! If you don't want someone to ask why you said or did something... well, you said/did the things! Why shouldn't someone else ask you about it? It turns the town on itself while the mafia can lie low, throwing in a vote on either side with minimal thought and throw fuel on the ever increasing fire.

When I say it like this, it seems so easy. But it's definitely not easy. FFNut found this the hard way when he had to explain why he asked a question. It was a stupid move for him to do so, with no reasonable explanation. These situations come up. Also, a good mafia will also know how to be a good town. After all, it's part of their lie.

Anyway, gg mafia. You got us good.

[Formalhaut]

I think a combination of AK not surfacing, Psy saying that waiting is annoying and everyone else just wanting to get on with it prompted me to vote AK.

[Psychotic]

I said what now?

I SAID NOTHING OF THE SORT :monocle:

Only a Mafia would say I would say such a thing!

get lynched, scum

##vote: Formalhaut

[Shauna]

Another thing, going on from the above interaction - read what people actually say. Don't rely on other people's recaps.

[Fynn]

I think a combination of AK not surfacing, Psy saying that waiting is annoying and everyone else just wanting to get on with it prompted me to vote AK.

Don;t put the blame on Psy now, Formy :p


I think the main mistake Town made this time around was latching on to one theory. We had plenty of clues to go on and we forgot a very simple thing - we all assumed only one mafia was capable of killing, when in reality, it might as well have been both of them taking turns. And this was most likely the case, considering what happened to the girl that was most suspected while the other was watched

[Shauna]

I certainly didn't forget, not that it did town any good. xD I was crying at my PC as everyone only focused on FFNut, instead of the lies peddled about how we only had one person (FFNut) unaccounted for in the night action. "What about Noctis?!" I cried.

[Fynn]

I certainly didn't forget, not that it did town any good. xD I was crying at my PC as everyone only focused on FFNut, instead of the lies peddled about how we only had one person (FFNut) unaccounted for in the night action. "What about Noctis?!" I cried.

:jokey:

[FFNut]

Ya I wanted you guys to wait too. Like Shauna I was ok with getting the ax, just wished you guys would not focus on me only and talk about others just to open up the range. You guys had tunnel vision for one.

To to be honest I had a feeling Shauna was town, but felt like if I changed my vote then it would have been a flip flop yet again and it was me who would go.

Now that I know how to play I do look forward to playing again and I won't make those same mistakes.

[Psychotic]

I think a combination of AK not surfacing, Psy saying that waiting is annoying and everyone else just wanting to get on with it prompted me to vote AK.

Don;t put the blame on Psy now, Formy :pI didn't even post about the game yesterday. And before that I did say I was pro-mafia from then on! :p

[Freya]

Yeah I wasn't convinced nut or shauna were town and only bump a vote for nutty to get more talking. Then they all went loony!

[Formalhaut]

Well maybe not Psy, I wasn't really going through the backlog of posts. But there was definitely a sentiment of impatience settling in Day Three.

[Formalhaut]

I was actually one of the last people holding out hope for Nutty, but opinion turned so much the other direction it'd be suspicious to keep championing him. And then I decided to give in to suspicion and vote for Nutty.

[Karifean]

At this point I'm just wondering if I should wait for the return of the absent player so they don't come back to a finished game or just go ahead and end it already ^^;

[Shauna]

Just end it. Unless, of course, you were waiting for any vital night action from him! ;)

[Fox]

AK be like "Right! I have an hour left, I should go and tell my fellow towns the critical information I discovered during the last night ph-oh"

[Fynn]

END IT

[Fynn]

And that, as they say, is that!

[FFNut]

AK was Cosmos. I was wrong on one. Since it is ended I will say Scruff was my other guess on Chaos and with AK dead he is the obvious choice of the first night killer.

[FFNut]

Fox would be my guess as the other Chaos. He was third on my list.

[Shauna]

Fynn and Scruff.

I made this decision at 8:20 this morning before I even checked this thread.

Let's see how it all played out.