FFXV Story Discussion - Did you enjoy it? What went wrong?

[Psychotic]

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Now that most people who got Final Fantasy XV day one have had a chance to beat the game, it's time to have a look back on the story and discuss some of the details. You may have seen EoFF members Loony BoB and Fox in particular having a debate about it on the forums and so I thought it would be a good idea to invite them onto FF Talk to have a chat about it and to get both perspectives.

Warning: Spoilers up to and including the ending!


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For those of you who don't know, FF Talk is a monthly(ish) show where a couple of members of the site discuss issues relating to the FF series. If you watch the video and find yourself with a burning issue you'd like to talk about - let me know! I'd love to have you on the show.

What did you think of BoB and Fox's views? Whose view do you lean more towards? What disappointed you the most about the story and what did you enjoy the most about it?

[Sephiroth]

Huh, I wonder if I should have participated.

[Psychotic]

Huh, I wonder if I should have participated.Always happy to have you on another one in future. Same goes for anyone.

[Sephiroth]

Tell me whenever the next time is. Right now I'm ill though.

[Spawn of Sephiroth]

I dont understand why noct didnt save luna since he could travel back in time before the incident at Altissia. I mean he still has to die but I dont recall anything where she had to die. Dick move on his part to atleast save her ya know? Plus they could have easily used Kingsglaive as a prologue and tutorial for the game and play as Nyx and sum that movie up in maybe 45 minutes to an hour tutorial.

[Sephiroth]

I dont understand why noct didnt save luna since he could travel back in time before the incident at Altissia. I mean he still has to die but I dont recall anything where she had to die. Dick move on his part to atleast save her ya know? Plus they could have easily used Kingsglaive as a prologue and tutorial for the game and play as Nyx and sum that movie up in maybe 45 minutes to an hour tutorial.

1. What you imply is a Grandfather Paradox. That is an impossible Time Changing Paradox. You cannot just go an destroy your reason to change something.
2. Umbra does no literal Time Travelling. Gentiana calls it "revisiting memories". So it it just a metaphorical sort of time travelling.

[rubah]

Hi guys.

I've been pretty much obsessed over this since the first week of December. If you want a point of reference, you might go back to my posts on FFX and FFVIII, but that is what this game has done to me. I FEEL LIKE A TEENAGER AGAIN JESUS CHRIST. anyway.

The plot of FFXV is nothing special. It's the same general fantasy plot, except even more generic somehow. Teen who isn't really anything special on his own gets magically selected to be The Chosen One, and everyone pitches in to help him save the world.

What is special about FFXV is how it conveys that plot.

1) It's incredibly understated. You, the player, can put as much or as little effort as you like into understanding the motives of the characters, what people are doing in the background etc. You tune into the radio each time you roll up to Kenny's or a pit stop, and you'll be a couple of cutscenes ahead of the person who waits to be shown what's going on. You watch Kingsglaive or read the Prologue novel, and suddenly, you can see how those guys who get a couple of minutes of screen time in Chapter 2 are responding to their own conflicts and drama, wholly unrelated to you.

Some people don't enjoy this, but me? I'm the kind of person that starts looking up Vascaroon because I talked to the right person on the white SeeD ship. I dig it.

2) The overarching framing device is remembering back to a roadtrip you took with your friends. FFXV is a journal that has the days listed out, red ink on the holidays to frame your experience, but you are the one who is scribbling in the details of the hunts you took on, the NPCs you talked to, the crazy number of photos Prompto took of Noct's butt while he's getting on a chocobo. Thousands and millions of people can buy the same journal from the same retailer, but no 2 will look alike after they've been used.

Each game will be unique to the person playing it. This is true in general, but.. they use that device for all it's worth in the final chapter. Really drive it home. You start off in media res fighting Ifrit (btw, did you notice him in the painting in Carbuncle's Lore Training room? He's awfully hugged up with a mermaid--I'm thinking Leviathan), and at the end of the game, you return to that scene. Everything takes place just as it did before, putting the bulk of the game as Noct's recollection in that scene, his life flashing before his eyes. And then, quite predictably, but no less of a tear-jerker for seeing it coming from a distance, you have to choose one photo to represent the sum total of the experiences you shared, the bonds you developed, and the path you took along the way. I don't know how anyone playing the game on a serious/first run can't pick the farewell photo from Cape Caem, but that's you. If your chocobro experience is better summed up by the time Noct's model clipped through Gladio's chest, that's you.

3) The game uses the dark as a motif. From the title screen, which presages the ending of the game by slowly transitioning to daylight if you let it sit for an hour or so, and changes straight up after you've finished the game, to the implications of what a city named "Insomnia" means, especially in comparison to the rest of daemon-ravaged Lucis (there you're free to stay up all night without risking your life), to the black crownsguard garb and skull patterns, to how the days grow shorter and shorter, until it seems like it was hardly light at all, and then it isn't light at all. , and Noct's inexorable sleepyheadedness, to the point that he learns to live in his dreams, revisiting Past Lucis and Past Altissia with Umbra's help; who's to say that the final scene with him and Luna isn't his dream of life after death? It recalls the fayth of FFX, and god please don't let them ruin the beautiful sadness if a FFXV-2 comes about... >:[.

The consistent application of the motif sticks in your mind and adds its own suggestions on how events should be interpreted when there's no firm plot to say for sure one way or another. "What would the reaction to this scene be of a member of a society who once worshipped Death back in the day when this game was called FFXIII-Versus, and now seem to hold Sleep in the same regard."

In short, the game's plot is nebulous and best enjoyed by filling in the blanks yourself to the extent you wish to.

[Scruffington]

1) It's incredibly understated. You, the player, can put as much or as little effort as you like into understanding the motives of the characters, what people are doing in the background etc. You tune into the radio each time you roll up to Kenny's or a pit stop, and you'll be a couple of cutscenes ahead of the person who waits to be shown what's going on. You watch Kingsglaive or read the Prologue novel, and suddenly, you can see how those guys who get a couple of minutes of screen time in Chapter 2 are responding to their own conflicts and drama, wholly unrelated to you.

This method of storytelling is neither immersive nor enjoyable.

XV's problem is that several key details are spoonfed to you. Whether it's through listening to the radio or picking up the journals in Chapter 13, the game does not let the player experience the plot. Instead you are informed of the story. You don't get to experience the downfall of the Niflheim empire. You don't get to witness Iedolas being defeated by Ardyn. And you definitely don't get to see Ravus' death. All of these cool events happen off-screen, and the player is merely told what happened after the fact. It makes the story shallow and cheap. What makes a good game is its ability to tell story through gameplay, allowing you to experience the plot as it happens. XV unfortunately fails to deliver a satisfying experience in this regard.

Also I am of the firm belief that a game should not require supplementary material to understand its plot. A player should be able to purchase a game and be able to completely understand both the context and narrative. Without having watched Kingsglaive, I was utterly confused by the random cutscene they included during the Galdin Quay chapter. It didn't really have any context. It was basically a radio report saying "the king died" and it showed a 10 second clip of Regis being killed by Glauca. Without being able to participate in this event or understand the background behind the scene, it had almost zero significance to me.

Ravus and Regis are the two greatest examples of XV's shoddy storytelling to me. Neither character gets a satisfying conclusion.

[Nice]

I'd love to join you guys on a discussion.

I lean towards Fox. I went into the game, having read and watched a ton of reviews, expecting a crappy story. While this is nothing new for the series, it was still a let down.

I felt that the game was unfinished. There were so many missed opportunities to really dig into the game world and explore. For instance, I know that it was the intent of Square to have players explore the area where Shiva is frozen. That would have been amazing. I also believe that the World of Ruin would have been an excellent place to battle high level monsters and explore. It would have added depth.

I think the combat is too simple. After a few hours it became clear that this game was on easy mode. Dark Pixel Gaming did a video about this on their YouTube if anyone is interested.

Too much of the story occurred off screen. In fact, most of the good story beats happened off screen.

On the flip side, I loved the first few hours of the game. Once the world opened up and you got to explore it was NOOICE. Also the relationship, bromance, between the four leads was actually interesting.