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fat_moogle
06-25-2017, 12:27 AM
Oh my god I love this game so much! I bought it last month during a digital sale, but I haven't had the chance to play it as much as I'd like. However I made some more progress today and now I'm about 13 hours in. The various gameplay styles blend together so nicely, the soundtrack is beautiful, the story is intriguing and the boss fights are epic.

Is anyone else playing this at the moment? Maybe you've completed it already? If you have completed it, how long did it take you? And is it true that you have to play through more than once to get a "true" ending? No game spoilers though, please!

Wolf Kanno
06-25-2017, 06:25 AM
It's currently on my wishlist. I'm playing through Drakengard currently and then plan on picking up the first NieR title and this one afterwards. The music for this game is gorgeous and I've been listening to it off YouTube for awhile now.

Fynn
06-25-2017, 07:30 AM
I heard it's not as much that you have to beat the game twice, but that when you get the first ending you have to pick new game in order to continue that story. It's something Taro Yoko is known for really.

Wolf Kanno
06-25-2017, 07:38 AM
I've heard there are three scenarios actually, each one unlocking after you finish the previous one. I believe Sephiroth finished this game not too long ago, so he would most likely know.

KleinerKiller
06-25-2017, 08:15 AM
Yes, you have to more or less play it a few times, but there are massive variations. It's how it worked in the first Nier, and apparently some of the Drakengard games, though I never played those. And from what little I've heard about this replay value, the chain of playthroughs is significant enough that you might as well not play the game otherwise.

As for the game itself, I just got it a few days ago, about 2 or 3 hours in, and I'm having a blast with it. It's everything I loved about Nier -- the complex story, surreal concepts, deceptively deep characters, gorgeous visuals, etc -- but with Platinum goodness instead of the original's low-budget clunkiness. 2B is a bit flat for a lead protagonist at this point, but given how all of the characters shaped up by the end of Nier, I'm confident that this will soon change.

fat_moogle
06-25-2017, 11:25 AM
I never played the original Nier or Drakengard games, so I wasn't aware that these also had the multiple play through scenarios. It's interesting to know that the extra play throughs will add quite a bit more depth rather than just a small tidbit here and there.

Shauna
06-25-2017, 12:23 PM
I played for about half an hour and got destroyed. Then I was back at the title screen and I cried softly. I really need to git gud.

Sephiroth
06-25-2017, 12:34 PM
It's how it worked in the first Nier

Not, it is not. "Experience a different view"-wise there are similiarities. You can see the parallels and can expect something to happen because of past games but it still is very different execution-wise. Nier 1 was "finish the game" -> "restart at 50% and you have a bit of extra dialogue to read". Nier 2 is: "finish the game at 50% (not really finishing it thus)" - > "restart and play with another character until you reach the story point again" -> "after that play the other 50%". Nier 2 is a more extreme version of what happened in the first one's narrative choice. And Drakengard also does it very different because of timelines and stuff.

Possible Spoilers. I do not really talk about actual story content in shape and form but it might still be too much for some.

I already wrote a review. Nier 1 is after FFVII my favourite game because of the Gestalt version. Nier 2 is not even half as good but still better than most. The problem is it lacks a lot of moments that should be fleshed out, it is full of pseudo-existential moment that are torn apart by fans with their theories now even though the answers already are pretty self-explanatory through psychology but I guess I have to accept the way of writing as I always do. It is just different than in reality. Other moments that hardly got exposition are torn apart by fans with their theories that they have read from other fans even though it is full of speculations and half o the game contradicts them already and they can only hold it up with more speculations.

Nier 2 is a great game. But Nier 1 had a big advantage: The writers were Sawako Natori and Kikuchi Hana. Mentioning Taro Yoko now is like when people only knew the name "Motomu Toriyama" for Final Fantasy XIII. These people are incredibly important organs as Directors. But that does not mean they make the entire game, let alone the most important parts of it. And even worse, those fans do not even know that Taro is his first name. One person on youtube for the final boss of Drakengard 3 was like "Yoko Taro or whoever composed this ..." - yeah, sure. You know 1 name. And that person did EVERYTHING in the game. Even the music. Because the credits are just decoration with made up names. Same goes for whenever people do not acknowledge the existence of people like Kazushige Nojima or Daisuke Watanabe. Wolf Kanno is Nojima-san's natural enemy. But he at least knows that he exists and does a thing.

I also do not like how Nier Gestalt was treated for this installment. Nier Gestalt is a normal acknowledged version in Japan. It even is their 360 version. But they only refer to Brother Nier and not to Father Nier. Yoko-san also mentioned before the game's release there would be only one version this time. I mean, of course there is the problem that if they do not make two versions again they can hardly mention it but even worse it when that happens:

You find a weapon with weapon memory.
You see a translator used "dad". And you think "oh my god, they really mentioned Father Nier *sheds tear*" You switch to Japanese, already thinking the worst and see the text is "onii-chan" (brother).
Okay. You think "maybe they had the job to change it for us as they were given this task"
You find another weapon memory and see the person was not invested enough to see that this memory talking about "a boy that wanted to save his sick sister" was about the same guy.

This is a punch in the guts. Father Nier feels incredibly natural and perfectly reflects how I also would do everything for my future children. Heavy Rain or The Last of Us? Get outta here.

Nier IS Drakengard. Drakengard uses timelines. Nier 1 is the sequel to Drakengard's Ending E. Nier 2 is the sequel to Nier 1's Ending D+E (which pretty much also include A and B but not C; these endings hardly have anything to do with timelines). They should just say "there is a Nier Replicant timeline where for some reason Nier is the brother and another timeline, the Gestalt timeline, where Nier for some reason is the father". Or say something like "there are two timelines. in both a Nier Jr. and a Nier Sr. existed. a boy and his father. one timeline has the boy surviving, the other one has the father surviving." And this way they could also have the Brother-Sister and Father-Daughter story.

And I hated that the harder hacking parts gave me frustration. I do not want frustration in Nier. Nier 1 was perfect for me. Gladly when you change it to easy and use Auto-Target and Dodging you can use that for hacking and make it easy as pie this way - yes, I am talking about the hacking.

So - an incredible experience that makes me want a lot more.

Nier 1 Story & Gameplay (yes, it is not as nimble as Nier 2 but has other advantages) > Drakengard 3 Story > Nier 2 Story > Nier 2 Gameplay > Drakengard 3 Gameplay.

My review:

http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/169579-Nier-2-Automata-Review-Thread

I have more Nier 2 experience now than I had back then but the main problems are still there. It feels a bit different but most of what I said stayed the same. Drakengard 3 (so the very first story part of all of them) would be a lot better than Nier 2 if it just had better gameplay. Zero and her story - that is really something. But I already mentioned that once.

Nier 2 also has a novella but that is something that a lot of casual consumers will not know.

fat_moogle
07-07-2017, 08:42 PM
Oh my sweet Jesus I just made it through the abandoned factory (second time) and I literally thought it was never going to end! There are ridiculously long sections to get through without being able to save, it's ridiculous o.O but the satisfaction you get upon getting to the end of a section and defeating the boss is a great feeling!

fat_moogle
07-11-2017, 11:50 AM
Sorry for the double post but I just completed this game and...underwhelming ending much? Like, wow. I wasn't expecting it to end there. Just got that message at the end though about the different storylines as was mentioned in posts above this so I'll start another play through now. Hopefully it actually explains more about the story because from what I've played so far I'm still pretty clueless to be honest.

EDIT: Ok this really is different xD

EDIT AGAIN: UGH when you go the wrong way and get that stupid text ending.

Edge7
07-11-2017, 10:57 PM
I can't say if I like the story for this game more than the original Nier (the former just had a better cast and writing imho), but Automata might be one of the most emotionally visceral experiences I've ever played in that it connected with me in a way not a lot of games do. Without spoiling much, the game's later scenarios took me through a whirlwind of emotions I haven't felt since first reaching the final boss of Shadow of the Colossus. I'm trying not to overhype what's to come, but I want to assure you the game does bring "more" after it's underwhelming first scenario.

Sephiroth
07-12-2017, 12:38 AM
I can't say if I like the story for this game more than the original Nier (the former just had a better cast and writing imho), but Automata might be one of the most emotionally visceral experiences I've ever played in that it connected with me in a way not a lot of games do. Without spoiling much, the game's later scenarios took me through a whirlwind of emotions I haven't felt since first reaching the final boss of Shadow of the Colossus. I'm trying not to overhype what's to come, but I want to assure you the game does bring "more" after it's underwhelming first scenario.

No wonder. The first one was not by Yoko-san alone but by Kikuchi Hana-san and Sawako Natori-san as well.

fat_moogle
07-12-2017, 12:53 AM
Sephiroth (da da da daaaa) - Very in depth post! You kind of make me want to play Drakengard 3 and the original NieR at some point when I finish these other play throughs so I can appreciate the full story. Are the first two Drakengards not relevant?

Edge - You're not the only one to say that about good stuff coming. KK mentioned above that the events on the second and third play throughs are "significant", and also when I went on the N4G PS4 community earlier saying that I completed my first run someone replied "the best is yet to come!" I'm assuming that we will see more of A2 because after the fight with her I was expecting her to show up again but she never did.

Sephiroth
07-12-2017, 01:04 AM
Drakengard 3 is the chronologically first Drakengard storywise and the latest Drakengard titled Drakengard. That is why I mention it. Also it has the most redeeming gameplay in comparison to 1 and 2 and the main character and the story is just wy more recommendable, I'd say. Drakengard 1's gag ending is the timeline of Nier. So in direct relation to Nier of course Drakengard 1 is "kind of" relevant. Especially considering a certain sickness that sets everything in motion comes from Drakengard. Drakengard 2 is "just there". It is part of Drakengard but does not even have anything to do with Yoko-san - but that does not mean anything. I am not one of those people with abstruse claims that if director x is missing it is not canonical because my magical fan rules say that.

fat_moogle
07-12-2017, 02:23 AM
I no longer have a PS2 so Drakengard 1 and 2 are out of the equation for me anyway. Physical copies of Drakengard 3 are pretty expensive but I'm surprised to see it on PSN for 19.99...19.99 that I can't afford right now (not even next month) but like I said, I'll be replaying Automata for now, anyway. When I can afford it, I'll be on it.

Raine Lockehart
07-29-2017, 09:03 PM
This game quickly became an emotional roller-coaster after the first playthrough.

There were plenty of moments that left an impression whether positive or negative, but I found the underlying philosophical and psychological foundation the most appealing and intriguing. It might have been because I previously studied psychology as a major that I immediately gravitated towards Nier: Automata, but it definitely did not disappoint in those aspects.

Ever since playing it, I have recommended it to everyone who was looking for a solid story-driven game, even though it might be better understood and complemented by the Drakengard series or the original Nier.

Though it might be my selfish desire to discuss these philosophy and psychology with another gamer (ー_ーゞ

So many feelings and emotions for this game even after finishing it!


Drakengard 3 is the chronologically first Drakengard storywise and the latest Drakengard titled Drakengard. That is why I mention it. Also it has the most redeeming gameplay in comparison to 1 and 2 and the main character and the story is just wy more recommendable, I'd say. Drakengard 1's gag ending is the timeline of Nier. So in direct relation to Nier of course Drakengard 1 is "kind of" relevant. Especially considering a certain sickness that sets everything in motion comes from Drakengard. Drakengard 2 is "just there". It is part of Drakengard but does not even have anything to do with Yoko-san - but that does not mean anything. I am not one of those people with abstruse claims that if director x is missing it is not canonical because my magical fan rules say that.

I have not played the previous Drakengard games and only have experience with D3.

The story, and particularly the characters, were...unique and interesting which helped to keep me playing.

Though last I remember, the gameplay was lacking, in my opinion. That might stem from my lack of experience with hack-and-slash type of games or having not played the previous ones.

Regardless, the game left a distinct impression and it helped appreciate everything else Taro has worked on.

Sephiroth
07-30-2017, 12:53 PM
This game quickly became an emotional roller-coaster after the first playthrough.

There were plenty of moments that left an impression whether positive or negative, but I found the underlying philosophical and psychological foundation the most appealing and intriguing. It might have been because I previously studied psychology as a major that I immediately gravitated towards Nier: Automata, but it definitely did not disappoint in those aspects.

...

Though it might be my selfish desire to discuss these philosophy and psychology with another gamer (ー_ーゞ


That's a big problem of Nier 2 though. The game wakes up questions for people that are not really psychological and philosophical for the very reason that existentially there are already self-explanatory answers. Yes, when it comes to in-universe they can re-define whatever they want. For true things it would not work though. There is no necessity of questioning consciousness and existence. We are the consciousness. It is our instance to perceive reality. It is us. The rest, the shell, the personality, everything, is just something that "gives us shape". That is why a clone will never be us. He has his own instance to perceive reality and only a cloned body with ME projected into it, so my consciousness could be me. No second person, just a new shell. Only this way or a copy.

Do not get me wrong. I love Drakengard. Nier 1 is my number 2 favourite of all time. But there are discussions that just are not necessary because the answer flat lies there. And the moment it is spoken out these things quickly become pseudo-philosophical then. Nier 1 never took that approach of existence but the obvious stuff about existence did still help a lot to answer a few other things people talked about in Nier 1.