WK's Top something or other... let's just say "games" and call it good list. [Archive] - Page 2

Wolf Kanno

09-08-2017, 03:09 AM

36.

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You know, for a second attempt at an RPG, by a company that doesn't make RPGs, Breath of Fire 2 is surprisingly good and a huge improvement over their freshmen effort. In music, a band's credibility is usually based on the success of their sophomore outing and I kind of feel that rule applies to video games as well. Released the same year as FFVI in Japan and nearly a year after the U.S. release of the same game. BoFII is a bit like Lufia 2, where it came late to the party and had to compete in the West with some of Square's stronger titles. Thankfully for me, I had caught the RPG bug by this point, and was gobbling up any JRPG I could get my hands on for the SNES. This was another game recommended to me by the same friend who got me into Sly Cooper, and this was my first Breath of Fire game as I had missed the first entry and never had much interest to check it out until a few years later.

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Set several generations after the events of the first game, the warring Dragon Clans have disappeared into myth along with the Goddess Myria. In the small isolated village of Gate, a boy named Ryu lives with his father and little sister in the local church. Shortly after his sister Yua was born, Gate was attacked by demons and Ryu's mother died in the attack. His father fought off the beasts with his magic, but it was the untimely arrival of a massive dragon that saved the village, and the beast eventually perched itself over the mountain that overlooks the village and entered a deep slumber. Yua goes to the dragon and sleeps by it because she has dreams of her mama when she does so, when Ryu tries it, he has a terrible nightmare about a demon instead. When Ryu wakes from the dream, he finds that not only has his father and sister vanished from the village, but everyone in town doesn't know who he is either. He's taken in by the church as an orphan and meets an orphaned Grasslander (Dog people) named Bow, who travels from town to town, getting taken into the churches and then looting the place before disappearing. With no place to go, Ryu and Bow leave the town together and end up in a cave when the weather turns. Inside the cave, Ryu is confronted by the demon in his nightmare and it attacks...

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Ten years later, Bow and Ryu have now become full fledged Rangers, a Guild that specializes in any kind of duty for a price, from house cleaning to monster slaying, they are the people to call for. Their first assignment is to find a local girls pet. After the successful mission, Bow is met in the middle of the night by a local nobleman who want him to break into the richest man in town's manor in order to steal back an item the rich man had stolen from the noble. Bow's attempted robbery fails when another thief beats him to the chase and Bow is left as the fall guy. Now running from the law, Ryu helps Bow escape and embarks on a journey to find the real thief, a girl with bat like wings named Patti. Ryu will meet many people on his journey and slowly comes to discover a nefarious plan by demons who are corrupting evil humans and sowing discord and chaos across the land.

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Though technically a direct sequel to the first game, you can be forgiven for feeling like Capcom pulled an FF and simply kept a few legacy elements while changing around everything else. There are only a few callbacks to the original, and though the second title in the Myria Trilogy, not only does she not show up, but BoFIII doesn't even really bother to make any mention of anything from this entry, though it liberally borrows some thematic elements from it. The plot is pretty unique, though some elements have been overused by future RPGs. One thing that still blows most peoples minds about this game is that it was one of the few non-Western RPGs to make it to the West with a plot concerning a corrupted church. I want you to think about that, Nintendo of America wouldn't let FF use the word Holy because it might offend someone, but they completely let Capcom make a game about a Church secretly trying to resurrect a demon god and using their phony religion to con people into helping them. I'm not even going into all of the game's poorly hidden adult materials like the boy crazy witch being named Nympho, or how you have to fish a ring out of a toilet she's was throwing up in because she was drinking too much over her guy problems. There is also the part where the first shaman meets you and due to her risque dress, she basically propositions you like she was a hooker. Me thinks that Square and a lot of other companies back then could have gotten away with a lot more if they realized that NoA's bark was worse than their bite.

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BoFII's plot also has a bit of a mood whiplash. The opening is pretty chilling and raises a lot of uncomfortable question, but then the game just skips ten years down the road and your first mission is played totally for laughs. On the journey to find the thief, you save one characters life from being murdered in a gladiatorial arena, learn that Nina has been exiled and shunned by her family due to her black wings, and save a town overrun by demons that are literal Aliens style face-huggers of which it's possible to kill their victims instead of saving them. All of that ends up being followed up with a farcical chapter where you have to help Jean prove he's the prince of his own home after an imposter sneaks in and takes his place... except Jean doesn't seem to mind that he's no longer a prince, and the town people know it's an imposter but either don't care who is in charge or some prefer the more competent imposter. I don't even want to go into the Queen of Tunlan who is becoming fat due to being possessed by demons and you have to travel inside her body to exorcise them.

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The game has it's dark moments, especially in the beginning and end points, and whenever you really get to go into certain characters backstories like Nina's exile, Rand running away from home, and Sten's survival guilt for surviving a war without his unit; but the game is also just filled with some serious slapstick comedy. While I appreciate my games not to be too serious, BoFII walks a thin line and often crosses the line with ridiculousness, but if you can look past that, or are simply not bothered by such things, you'll find a really good story with fun characters. The game has three possible endings, and I honestly think the bittersweet normal ending is superior to the happily ever after Best ending.

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After the very vanilla BoF1, it's pretty astounding to see how much of an improvement BoFII is. While the original had some overly simplistic game mechanics and was fairly unbalanced, one of the interesting strengths of the franchise has been the fact that Capcom really didn't know what they were doing back then, and so the game is filled with some really interesting gameplay ideas that seem unheard of for it's era, largely because Capcom didn't really know any better. This usually works really well for the games and helps set them apart from more traditional Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games, as well as the many clones they created.

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Like the first game, you will acquire nine party members with their own strengths and skills. Ryu is an all around brawler with a special skill that allows him to restore a certain percentage of his health if it succeeds. Bow is a combat medic with a risky blow skill that will either do 1hp of damage or critical hit. Katt is a glass cannon fighter with the highest agility and strength in the game with an ability to draw enemy fire towards her. You get the picture. In addition to these special FFIV style skills, most of the party can use some form of magic they learn by leveling up. There are some quirky character building elements within all this much like FFIV such as Katt pulling a Tellah/Naruto by learning all three of the highest level elemental spells in the game at a ridiculously early level, but not having enough AP to cast it. This is something that is brought up in the story due to her being kind of a simple ditz who wants to learn really powerful spells, so it makes sense she would teach herself overpowered moves despite not realizing she is incapable of using the spells. Sten the Highlander (Monkey People) has a play dead move which actually plays into his backstory. There are some really clever nods and tying in of the gameplay and story which I quite appreciate.

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The party members are far better balanced than the original, with most of the cast having clear design purposes and roles to play in combat. Suffice to say, party configuration plays a big role in building a well rounded fighting unit. Yet the game has a few interesting ideas that really shake up what could have been a ho-hum formula with the Shaman System. At a certain point in the game, Ryu will meet a Shaman and her grandmother who deal with Shaman Fusion. There are six shamans in the world, each representing one of the four classical elements plus light and dark, and with them, you can fuse them with party members to confer up benefits like minor stat improvements or even a complete transformation that changes the characters appearances, stats, and skills. With this system, the game technically has 18 unique playable characters as the transformed characters can be radically different from their original. Jean the Frog is a perfect example as he is a slow tanky fighter mage who specializes in debuff magic. His special skill allows him to attack all enemies but with a very weak attack. His Holy Knight Fusion Form is pretty fast, far more melee orientated than his original form and his weak group hitting attack is exchanged for a powerful group hitting sword slice that will either miss or kill everything, making him a mini-Odin. It's a very interesting mechanic that is only hampered by some tedious rules that can make them impractical at times, but it's still super fun to play with.

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Another unique feature of the series is that most of the party members have a unique map skill that can be used to help travel the world or collect items you can use. Bow can hunt wild animals with his Crossbow in special hunting ranges that appear on the map occasionally, Katt can destroy objects with her staff, Sten and Jean gain important skills that help you to reach normally inaccessible parts of the map or dungeon, and Ryu retains his unique skill of fishing, which has been changed from a silly gimmick from the first game into a full fledged mini-game which is surprisingly difficult but incredible rewarding since the fish can be used for a variety of purposes and he can fish up treasure and Manillo merchants as well. Some skills just make traveling easier, but the hunting and fishing mini-games help to break up the monotony of combat and help the player gain valuable healing items so they can free up their Zenny for equipment instead.

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Speaking of mini-games, BoFII may have introduced the concept of town building to a standard RPG. I know DQIII had you help build a town but most of it was plot relevant and beyond naming it, you didn't get much say in it. This game allows you to build a town and search the world for people to live in it, which results in special shops or gifts to help you out. Even the look of the town can be customized based on which carpenter you hire to make the town and each form has a unique feature such as the basic home offering a restaurant where the carpenter's wife can cook items into stat raising ones, or the Mogul/Arabian design let you play the carpenter at a special board game for prizes. Making this even more complicated is the fact that you only have room for six residents, but their are twenty-four to choose from, with sets of four only being able to live in a particular house, so if you let the guy who sells you fish into the town, you can't recruit a character who would open a bank or one that would let you listen to all of the games music. Some residents can even permanently increase stats or teach characters abilities outside of their normal spell repertoire. It's a giant Guide Dang it, but frankly most of the game is in some places. I actually missed Ryu's second set of dragon forms due to them being completely optional and the teacher being squirreled away in an odd place. Yet, I feel it's one of the more interesting things about this game, it's incredible deep despite coming across initially as a pretty by the book adventure and I still discover new things in the game with every playthrough.

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I will also point out that BoFII easily has some of the best sprite work of almost any SNES RPG. I think Chrono Trigger may offer a challenge an even then, I feel BoFII's battlefield models might be some of the best in the business. They are incredibly fluid in their animation and all of the enemy designs and animations help make battles more visually interesting than the static battle systems of other RPGs at the time. The music is also really catchy, and while it lacks some of the quieter pieces I usually prefer in my soundtracks, the rocking battle themes and upbeat catchy music that Capcom is good for still keep this game an audio treat.

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The one major blemish this game suffers from is a terrible localization. The first game was localized and published in the West by Square, which anyone familiar with the FFIV translation will know how great they were back then...So Capcom took the plunge and did it themselves, with some questionable results. It may not be the worst translation I've seen, but like FFII (IV) it can be pretty bad in some places and I would advise checking out a fan translation if you can. It had a port on the GBA, but in addition with poor audio and visuals like many SNES ports for the system, Capcom didn't seem to bother taking this as an opportunity to give it a better translations so they largely just reused the old script with only a few minor changes. The more I think about it, the more I feel like this game really needs a remake. It has several great ideas that are only diminished by questionable balance rules and the devs being pretty new to RPGs in general. A remake could fix the script and potentially refine the gameplay into something pretty cool, but considering how indifferent Capcom seems to be to the franchise, we'll likely never see this happen.
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Fynn

09-08-2017, 08:13 AM

I definitely liked the party member variety in BoFII

Wolf Kanno

09-08-2017, 09:37 AM

One game is about the horrors of oversleeping.
One game shows how powerful whistling can be.
One game shows why you should get out more and see the theater.
One game is a cautionary tale about picking up shiny objects you find.
One game is an interesting take on communication abilities.
One game is what I feel may be the greatest licensed game of all time.

Alright guys, one down, can you guess the next one?

Here's another set of hints, each one corresponds with it's identical number:

"You asked me once what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world." ~O'Brian
"In that land, we led a free and hardy life, with horse and rifle. ~ Teddy Roosevelt
"Love me or hate me, both are in my favor... If you love me, I'll always be in your heart, if you hate me, I'll always be in your mind." ~ William Shakespeare
"Unless someone like you cares an awful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not." ~ The Lorax
"With some, we're certain our hearts must have been acquainted, long before we ever met them." ~Shakieb Orgunwall
"Work smarter, not harder." ~ Allan F. Mogensen

Fynn

09-08-2017, 09:49 AM

Wolf Kanno

09-08-2017, 09:53 AM

One game is an interesting take on communication abilities.

"With some, we're certain our hearts must have been acquainted, long before we ever met them." ~Shakieb Orgunwall

https://68.media.tumblr.com/3927312ef1bcf51327392c253614ed9c/tumblr_inline_ncyftzjVwh1qccmug.png

Nope, none of these games are Atlus titles. Two Square titles, one Capcom, one Konami, and two published by Sony. ;)

Fynn

09-08-2017, 09:56 AM

But you can't deny that it fits ;)

Pete for President

09-08-2017, 12:15 PM

My Castlevania exploits last night had me pull out Simon's Quest and see if I can get it working, which I did and I'll try to play through it sometime in the future.

So here's some clues for the rest of the thirty bracket, let's see how many of you can figure them out.

One game is about the bulltrout you go through when your friends have a criminal record.
One game is about the horrors of oversleeping.
One game shows how powerful whistling can be.
One game shows why you should get out more and see the theater.
One game is a cautionary tale about picking up shiny objects you find.
One game is an interesting take on communication abilities.
One game is what I feel may be the greatest licensed game of all time.

Whistling makes me think Shadow of the Collossus?

theundeadhero

09-08-2017, 05:40 PM

*Also makes motorcycle noises*

That is all.

Wolf Kanno

09-08-2017, 09:00 PM

But you can't deny that it fits ;)

Sadly, it fits better with that game than the one it's about. Course it was hard to come up with hints that didn't blatantly give it away.

Del Murder

09-08-2017, 09:05 PM

I think number 2 is Red Dead and number 6 is Duck Tales. :D

Wolf Kanno

09-09-2017, 08:01 AM

35.
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I'm sure this may come as a surprise for some people.Looking at this game and a few others on this list, I feel I have a serious soft spot for really creative and ambitious games that never got finished and were simply pushed out to make some holiday sale window. MGSV is also just as interesting for all of the drama surrounding it's creation and the firing of Kojima as well as Konami basically pissing off their last really loyal overseas fanbase since the company has a better track record of killing off their franchises than even Capcom or Square-Enix. So yeah, there is a lot of emotions and controversies within the game and surrounding it, but for now, that doesn't really matter. The game itself is good, really good in fact.
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The plot is a bit more convoluted than previous MGS games, only because in order to get the most emotional impact from this game, you really need to have played all of the Kojima made Big Boss titles. There are call backs to MGS3, but a lot of the story and drama comes from Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes. This next part is going to be a bit spoilery for people who haven't played some of these entries, so you have been forewarned. After his mission in Russia to kill the Boss, Naked Snake received the title of Big Boss but threw it away and left the U.S. government, despite helping Zero to create an organization to steer the country back into the direction that The Boss wanted the world to be. Disenfranchised with politics and homeland, Snake becomes a mercenary and joins up with Kazuhiro "Master" Miller to form the Militaires Sans Fronteires (Military Without Frontiers) in the Central America area and begins dealing with the proxy wars between the U.S., Russians, and the local countries sadly caught in the middle. He takes on a mission in Costa Rica on the behalf of an obvious Russian spy and a local girl named Paz. Here Snake confronts some serious WarGames (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames) type shenanigans when he discovers Huey Emmerich (Otocan's dad) and a bisexual fangirl of The Boss known as Dr. Strangelove are building an A.I. Controlled Metal Gear called Peace Walker on the behalf of the asshole politician that setup the Boss in MGS3. Crap happens, robots are destroyed, Snake finally decides he is walking down a different path than the Boss and finally begins to take on his title as Bog Boss. That Paz girl turns out to be an enemy agent working for Cipher, an intelligence branch of the U.S. government led by Zero, who was trying to frame Snake to force him back into the fold. Paz hijacks Metal Gear Zeke but is taken out by Snake and presumed to be dead.
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In Ground Zeroes, Huey Emmerich sets up a UN nuclear inspection of the Militaires Sans Fronteires base in order to get the world governments off their back for having a nuclear weapon. Meanwhile, the group finds out that Paz is alive and is detained in a military prison in Cuba that is totally not a thinly disguised Guantanomo Bay expy called Camp Omega. Initially Snake and Kaz were going to ignore her, but Chico, a boy the group picked up in Peace Walker who has a very complicated relationship with Paz, decides to go rescue her and gets captured as well. Well known for being a blather mouth, Snake is forced to infiltrate the camp the night before the inspection where he uncovers that the two have been horribly tortured both physically, mentally, and emotionally by a mysterious man with a disfigured face called Skull Face, who is trying to discover the location of Zero and seems to have a grudge against both him and Snake. While the mission is ultimately successful, it turns out the whole thing, including the UN Inspection, was a ruse by Skull Face and his Cipher unit XOF to destroy the base and assassinate Snake and Kaz. Both survive, but Snake falls into a coma.
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Nine years later, Snake has finally waken, and is trying to recuperate in a hospital on a small island in the Mediterranean. His memory and mind are fuzzy due to the shrapnel he took in the explosion that put him in the coma, and he lost his left arm as well. Unfortunately, just as he awakens, Cipher discovers his location and sends a hit squad to kill him, at which point Snake receives help from a mysterious figure named Ishmael who may or not be real. The rest of the opening is quite surreal and cinematic. It may actually be one of the coolest sequences in the franchise history to be honest. Eventually Ishmael disappears and Snake is reunited with Revolver Ocelot who helps Snake get back in shape and updates him on what has been happening for the last nine years. Kaz suffered only minor injuries and in Big Boss's memory, formed Diamond Dogs as his new mercenary company for the two of them with the sole goal of burying Cipher and killing Skull Face. Unfortunately, Kaz has been captured in Afghanistan at the height of the Russian conflict, and the newly titled Venom Snake goes in to rescue him. He encounters the Skulls, a paranormal military unit with superhuman abilities that led to Kaz getting captured and connected to Skull Face. Their search for revenge leads them all across Afghanistan and into the heart of Central Africa as well. The two of them have to deal with the changes they have endured through war and torture as well as the way their hatred and need for revenge has begun to warp their morals.
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In a lot of ways, MGSV has a lot in common with two controversial MGS titles: MGS2 and MGS4. Like MGS2, the game is separated by two distinct chapters, in this case Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain, with the first chapter being a routine mission that ends up going out of control and resulting in the supposed death of the protagonist, the second half is a bit more of a surreal experience with many elements leading you to really question what you are seeing and discovering how some inconsequential details in one moments is actually a hint towards the games rather trippy non-ending. Both games also have the controversial ending which seem to only raise more questions and leaves you feeling like the story didn't really answer all of the questions. While some people would argue this is due to the game's troubled development, I feel like the game is too polished to feel totally incomplete and I'm pretty sure this was the planned ending all along. The game redoes a few ideas from MGS2, but I feel like Kojima has learned to do a better job of both getting his point across and while still controversial, I feel its safe to say from the little backlash it got, that is was not quite as controversial as MGS2 for fans.
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Like MGS4, Phantom Pain introduces a weird contrived science concept to explain away all of the weird shit in the game. I feel like Kojima was purposely trolling the fans like myself who bitched about MGS4's overuse of Nanomachines to explain away most of the plot. It feels almost a bit more satirical in this game but at least has some interesting elements that lead to some of the game's central themes about language, nationality and global control. Sadly, a lot of it kind of gets lost because we have to have a Metal Gear show up, by which I mean a goddamn Gundam. The other element it shares with MGS4 is retconning what you feel you know about the characters. Certain figures from Peace Walker become much more sinister figures in this game, and it's pretty obvious that Kaz himself has become a much darker figure than any of his previous incarnations, but he's not even the real surprise figure. Other figures get painted into being better people than you think, and if you were the type to get annoyed about the bombshell concerning the origins of the Patriots in MGS4, MGSV does a better job of explaining the whole mess in a better way.
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For a game with little in terms of story compared to the plot heavy series, MGSV is surprisingly powerful and more or less well told barring a missing episode concerning the end of Eli's story. Heroes become villains, villains turn out to be well intention extremist, and you'll definitely walk away from the experience with different views about several of the important figures in the MGS story. Yet I applaud it for not being as over the top and as fan servicy as MGS4 was, which had a bad habit of answering questions that didn't seem important and trying to to bring back ignored plot elements and haphazardly turn them into over dramatic plot fodder. The story has its fair share of nonsense, but it hits hard with the feels. Quiet for instance, may be one of my favorite female characters in the series despite her whole situation being a thinly veiled half ass excuse for gratuitous fan service. Yet, her story is pretty powerful when taken together and the ending will leave you a bit emotionally drained. I think my only major gripe with the plot is that some of the audio tapes should have been made into cutscenes. I feel some people would appreciate the ending more, had the Truth Tapes been adapted into actual cutscenes shown along with the normal ending. In fact the audio tapes still kind of bother me. I put up with them in PW because I felt the team was cutting corners to fit the whole game on the PSP, but in PP, it feels more like Kojima just giving a middle finger to fans who hated all the cutscenes and codec scenes. My real issue here is that it's hard for me to multitask, so whenever I needed to listen to the tapes, I would have to set the controller down and focus on it, otherwise I would get distracted if I was doing a mission or maintenance on Mother Base and have to restart the whole damn tape to keep my facts straight. My other gripe is that there are certain story/gameplay sequences that are unrepeatable without erasing your old file and starting a new one.
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Of course the crown jewel of the game is actually the gameplay, which is largely the reason it's so high on this list. I still find myself hopping this game back in to play around with it, which is a bit of a testament to the game as I rarely do this with MGS titles since I prefer them as a complete package. In fact one of my gripes with Peace Walker besides the game just not meshing well on the PSP was the "pick up and play" framework of the game, but I feel a lot of this has to do with the restrictive controls and dumbed down level design and enemy A.I. that compensated for the systems short comings standing in the way of making it fun for me. It took the series sixteen years since the leap to 3D to finally do it, but MGSV (and Ground Zeroes) has the most user-friendly interface and control scheme in the franchises history outside of the 2D entries. Switching from different weapons and combat styles is pretty damn seamless and while CQC is still a bit too easy for my taste, it has regained a lot of its options from MGS3 that both MGS4 and Peace Walker had removed, so it feels more meaty and useful.
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In a lot of ways, disregarding the games adopting open-world gameplay, the core structure of the game is basically Peace Walker's just finally built for console and with a better control scheme. You still capture enemy soldier to convert to your army, and between the usual stealth missions, the game adapts a building sim, where you need to allot soldiers to their proper units to help build up the Diamond Dogs with researchers to help build and arsenal of new weapons and toys to use on missions, combat units you can send out on missions to get more money and supplies, and other fields to help build a well oiled war machine. It's been improved from the original in small ways but some are much appreciated, I like the fact that you can slightly customize your base and even visit it which gives it a more personal touch than the boring text interface of PW.
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One of the biggest additions from PW and the series at large is the introduction of Buddies, special people you can bring along on missions to help you out in various ways. There are only four of them, but they actually have quite the impact on the gameplay. It's pretty amusing to feel like a total badass by getting a perfect score on a difficult mission with the help of D-Dog or Quiet, only to jump into the FOB Online missions and find out you are terrible at stealth because you over-rely on your buddy abilities. D-Horse is the game's best transportation with the ability to travel most terrains unhindered, and most enemies ignore the horse, so travel is pretty easy between side mission zones. D-Dog and Quiet are both pretty overpowered with their abilities to mark most enemy soldier in an area for you and their combat abilities. D-Walker is kind of the odd man out, being a bit too cumbersome for real stealth missions, but becomes a godsend on the missions where you need to take down the Skulls thanks to it's fire power. They bring some interesting dynamics to the game and it's super fun to replay missions with different buddies and load outs.
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The open world aspect of the game actually meshes incredibly well with MGS's core design. Yet, it's not terribly surprising because the series greatest strength has always been its open ended approach to levels and bosses, with multiple paths to your goal or multiple ways to beat a boss. The open world design simply allows the player to take it to another level as you can approach enemy bases from multiple directions, yet, MGS doesn't forget it's roots and there are several locations and missions associated with them that have a clear cut purposeful design like classical games in the series past. Of anything, the open world aspect simply makes what could have been the more tedious sections have more variety. One of the biggest contributing factors to all this is that the enemy tactics change to counter yours, which is absolutely brilliant. Do a lot of headshots? Enemies will start wearing helmets. Too many night missions, they all suddenly are sporting fashionable Night vision goggles. Love to CQC people, get ready for a shotun in the face. You can actually do missions which will temporarily prevent enemies from having access to these toold and weapons, but you don't have enough units to wipe out all of them at once, so you have to pick and choose which ones are more of an advantage for them, with the exception of Riot Gear, that should always go.
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There are also lots of fun little antics in this game, which is usual for the series. While the plot is pretty damn grim and very light on more lighthearted moments, the game makes up for it with wacky stuff in the gameplay department. Snake has a prosthetic arm in this game, so of course being a Japanese game, there is a Rocket Punch option. You can take down soem of the games hardest bosses with ridiculous methods like using ammo drops called in from Mother Base or even using a water gun to stop the Man on Fire. My personal favorite, and where I felt Konmai seriously dropped the ball with the DLC, is the ability to collect several 80s songs and giving you the ability to play them during missions on your walkmen or even have the Helicopter blair it loudly when it comes in for a kill strike or rescue. Nothing is more hilarious than wiping out an enemy base with A-Ha's Take on Me playing and then killing everyone with a chopper strike while its blaring Europe's the Final Countdown. it's silly and glorious all at once. I only wish Konami would have picked up a few more licensed tracks for it because I would have love to have Girls Just Want ot Have Fun blaring while I'm leveling up my female combat soldiers or the awkward moment of traveling with a car of knocked out soldiers across the African savahhna with the Cars Drive playing.
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I haven't gotten to the whole FOB stuff, which has it's fair share of shortcomings, but turned out to be a pretty enjoyable online experience where you can invade another players base and steal their resources and soldiers. I'm not a big fan of multiplayer titles as you can tell by the majority of my list consisting of single player experiences, and I lost my competitve drive years ago, so versus stuff doesn't interest me. Like MGS3 before it, despite my love of the main game, I have not bothered with MGO, like ever. I can still get behind the FOB missions because they offer some quirky challenges you can't get in the main game. Overall, I don't have many complaints against the game itself, except for maybe the lack of thrilling boss battles like in the first three games. I mean it's a vast improvement over Peace Walker's copy paste nonsense, but Man on Fire isn't quite the visual and "oh shit" factor of The Fury, Quiet is a fun sniper duel, but she's not quite as challenging as Sniper Wolf and The End, the Skulls are more annoying than fun to battle, and the games Metal Gear... well fuck that thing, I think it might be my least favorite Metal Gear with the possible excpetion of Peace Walker, but I need to replay that game to see how I feel now.
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In fact, that might be one of this games strengths is that while I was pretty lukewarm to Peace Walker, the MGSV Duology has made me pretty interested in replaying the game (with the console port to help smooth over the control issues) and while I still hate the circumstances of Ground Zeroes release and felt it should have been part of MGSV proper instead of being ut out to be an expensive demo, I'm still happy I played through it cause it really made this game feel more impactful. Overall, I feel that MGSV is the ending the series deserved, it askes as many questions as it answers and Kojima returned to his ideals concerning MGS2 in regards of making the player feel like part of the experience and leaving them to figure things out for themselves instead of having to sit them down and try to explain it all. If you haven't checked it out, it's a real gem of a game.
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Scotty_ffgamer

09-09-2017, 08:15 PM

I still need to play through this. I only played a small part of it, but I did everything you could do in ground zeroes. Gameplay is fantastic, but what I've played and heard makes me think a little more could be done with the story. I don't mind the idea of listening to the tapes, but I feel like I'll agree with you on certain ones should be cutscenes. MGS4 did overdo it with lengthy cutscenes and such, but I thought the other games struck a better balance and wouldn't have minded something a little more similar to them in terms of storytelling. Not sure if that would be more difficult to do with the more open world nature of Phantom Pain, but yeah. Gameplay wise, it's practically perfect; but I don't think it will beat out MGS1 for me.

Pete for President

09-10-2017, 06:45 AM

I only got to play the first half but the game definitely impressed. Couple gripes aside I was loving the Hitman style freedom in the missions. Take out the target however you like, or balloon the sucker, choices! And I like choices.

Wolf Kanno

09-10-2017, 07:42 AM

1st Clue

One game shows how powerful whistling can be.
One game shows why you should get out more and see the theater.
One game is a cautionary tale about picking up shiny objects you find.
One game is an interesting take on communication abilities.
One game is what I feel may be the greatest licensed game of all time.

2nd Clue

"In that land, we led a free and hardy life, with horse and rifle. ~ Teddy Roosevelt
"Love me or hate me, both are in my favor... If you love me, I'll always be in your heart, if you hate me, I'll always be in your mind." ~ William Shakespeare
"Unless someone like you cares an awful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not." ~ The Lorax
"With some, we're certain our hearts must have been acquainted, long before we ever met them." ~Shakieb Orgunwall
"Work smarter, not harder." ~ Allan F. Mogensen

3rd Clue

Q3Yc3HhSl1Q
ClQcUyhoxTg
zSAJ0l4OBHM
7FE0qqKnKkc
gUhRKVIjJtw

Loony BoB

09-10-2017, 11:26 AM

AC3? Or perhaps RDR?

Raistlin

09-10-2017, 05:26 PM

That waterfall scene in third clue's #4 definitely reminded me of Suikoden II. I get that vibe from the corresponding second hint as well, as a Jowy/Riou or Rune of the Beginning reference.

Wolf Kanno

09-10-2017, 09:40 PM

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Long before FFVII was a thing on the PlayStation, this game was referred to as the best RPG on the system. In a lot of ways, Wild ARMS is a wonderful distilled RPG experience, and when I think about what an RPG should contain within it, this game and one other on this list, always come to mind first for me. Good story, likable cast, engaging villains you feel for, interesting setting, great puzzles, great dungeons, and tons of secrets that reward you for exploring the whole world,; Wild ARMS has it all.Yet, I may be getting ahead of myself.
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Set on the world of Filgaia, the planet was ravaged centuries ago by invading aliens called the Metal Demons who came to conquer the world. The industrial humans and the native Elws joined forces and used the power of the Guardians, sentient beings created from the lifeforce of the planet, to fight them off. They won the war, but not without severe consequences. The planet barely survived the ordeal, the Elws were nearly destroyed and eventually left the world after becoming disgusted with humanity's methods of using the same technology as the Metal Demons to fight them, the Guardians are so badly weaken they vanished and became just some mystical legend some people talk about except for a few settlements here and there that still believe in them, and mankind was largely knocked back to a stone age and has been slowly trying to rebuild civilization.
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Mankind has rebuilt itself in this wasteland to a stage of technology that closely resembles early industrial revolution and the U.S. frontier, but their are still castles and knights in some places based off the old civilization. The world is filled with Dream Chasers, drifters who wander the frontier wasteland looking for work and embracing their freedom to go where the wind takes them.
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Beginning the series tradition, Wild ARMS begins with a long prologue that involves choosing to follow individual stories of the game's primary cast. Rudy is a silent protagonist and a Dream Chaser looking for a place to belong. His story begins with him helping a small town rescue a lost child who accidentally wakes up a monster sealed by the Elw in a local cave. Rudy saves the child by revealing his ability to synchronize and skillfully use ARMs, ancient guns that are based on Metal Demon technology. The townsfolk turn on him and exile him from the town for bringing back a power that many fear. Jack is a Dream Chaser and Treasure hunter, who travels with his friend Hanpan, a talking Wind Mouse, in serach of the Ultimate Power so he can resolve some dark crisis from his past. Hist story begins with a rather comical satire on Indiana Jones, as he tries to plunder an Elw Ruin only to set off most of the booby traps. He does gain information that what he seeks may be in the Kingdom of Adelhyde. Cecilia Adelhyde is the princess and heir of the Kingdom, who has spent most of her life at the Curan Abbey learning magic. Her seventeenth birthday is approaching and she will soon be able to return home for good to take on her royal duties like protecting the Tear Drop pendant she wears. She is contacted by a mysterious voice within the abbey and uncovers a hidden library where she battles a monster and frees one of the Guardians who informs her that she is the chosen Innocent One, who can serve as a medium between the human world and the spiritual world of the Guardians, he informs her that a great calamity is about to befall the planet.
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The three characters meet in Adelhyde which is preparing a massive festival which is showing off ancient artifacts from the Demon Wars. Cecilia chooses to go incognito in order to investigate the calamity the guardians spoke of and ends up joining Jack and Rudy who are hired by the engineer Emma to exterminate a monster dwelling in a local ruin where some artifacts lay. Here they encounter the Golem, a series of massive machines built by humans and Elws to help protect the world from the invaders in the Demon War. In fact, Emma has excavated several of them, with this one being one of the last. So at this predictable point, you guessed it, the town gets attacked by demonic forces and it turns out the Metal Demons have returned. They injure Cecilia's father, steal the Golems, and devastate the kingdom until Cecilia gives in and hands over the Tear Drop to them. From this point the three band together as Cecilia and Jack both have connections to the Metal Demons and Rudy is asked to come along since his ARMs weapons work against the demons. At this point, Wild Arms continues to feel a bit typical by the book RPG. The demons, led by Zeikfried need the Tear Drop to wake their Mother up, who originally led the invasion of Filgaia but was sealed by the Guardians. They hope to conquer the planet for themselves because their own home world was destroyed by some calamity in the past and they've been looking for a new home. Granted, the current crop of Metal Demons were too young to fight in the past Demon War and only know their history and their Mother second hand.
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While this all sounds pretty generic, Wild ARMS has this interesting habit of completely subverting your expectations and changing the dynamics of the story and characters. The Metal Demons start off as typical chaotic evil bad guys, but eventually it's revealed they have their own struggles and bickering going on within their own ranks. Zeikfried may not give a damn about humanity, but he's doing everything he can to give his people a better life. Zed turns out to be a Gilgamesh expy and winds up having a a rather friendly rivalry with the heroes before he finds something important to him to protect that puts him at odds with his race. Lady Harkan is a tragic figure and Boomerang (an expy of Shadow from VI), A Metal Demon from the Demon War whose love of battle was so great, he bewitched Lucied, the Guardian of Desire to side with the Metal Demons over Filgaia, winds up having a more professional respect with the group. When Mother finally enters the plot, it dramatically changes the plot for the villains and they soon have to reassert what they all actually want from the war.
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The three central figures themselves also have some pretty good writing. A central theme of the game besides the ecological one, is the idea of "what is power? and what is it good for?" and while this theme permeates through all three character arcs, each have their own theme based on the power of the three greatest Guardians: Love, Courage, and Hope. Cecilia might be one of the best "Royals who want to be treated like People" stories I've actually seen in the genre. She struggles with her role as the "Innocent One" and her royal duties, her story is filled with tragedy after tragedy in the game's opening prologue but her personal story follows along "Love" as she learns that it's her compassionate heart that makes her worthy of her duty as both a royal and a spiritual medium. Jack has a pretty heartbreaking backstory, which surprisingly, the game shows you in the alternate opening, and his story is pretty good as Jack has to deal with discovering for himself what true power is to him. t first he seeks simply a power to destroy his enemies, but eventually learns that his laid back, almost apathetic attitude is one of the reasons why he doesn't understand what true power is and it's only when he grows up a little and comes to terms with his failures does he begin to really understand the real power he's been seeking. Rudy probably has it the roughest between the three. Despite being a silent protagonist/player surrogate, Rudy does in fact have a pretty involving back story that resembles Terra's backstory from FFVI in that he is an outcast blessed with a terrible power he never asked for that forever keeps him at arms length from society and this builds in him a terrible loneliness. There is actually a really interesting twist in his story about 3/4ths of the way into the plot that leads into his backstory about being raised by an archeologist who spent his life studying ARMs and the Metal Demon technology. He instilled in Rudy and unshakeable hope that one day, he'll meet people who will accept him. I know it sounds a bit sappy, but the game does a pretty good job of telling it. The rest of the cast is also quite memorable such as Marina the last Elw, Emma the eccentric scientist, Captain Bartholomew the comic relief, and goddamn Calamity Jane who may be the first Tsundere I ever encountered and is absolutely a blast as a character.
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There are other great themes in the game, and oddly enough, when taken into broad strokes, Wild ARM's story actually feels like a true intermediary between FFVI and VII despite not being developed by Square. The three main characters have several parallels to characters like Terra, Locke, and Cyan. Boomerang is practically Shadow without the backstory. The game has an underlying theme about forbidden powers that destroyed civilization coming back to haunt the present and likely redoing the whole mess again, the Guardians also share some characteristics with the Espers working both as guides to help the party while also serving as a tool in gameplay to help fight, and Filgaia itself feels like the Ruined World at times with a sense of hopelessness about the planet recovering.
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On the other side, I feel like Sakaguchi and Kitase may have been sharing drinks with the Wild ARMs team while working on VII because it surprising how many elements they share. An ecological theme centered around man's apathy for the plight of the planet dooming both, the planet being treated as a living being that all life is interconnected with, an ancient precursor race with advanced science and magic based on being in harmony with the planet and almost being wiped out by an alien threat they mostly dealt with, the last of their kind still in Filgaia is a flower girl who tends a flower garden in a place where nothing grows, an alien son obsessed with reviving his mother, said mother is basically what I would imagine what Jenova would have been like if she could talk and actually played more of a role in the story than plot device, the cast learns about the planet being alive and the ancient ways of living in harmony with the planet in the heavily Native American themed town of Baskar, the WEAPONS are expy's of Wild ARMs Golems both serving the purpose of protecting the planet from the alien invaders and ultimately turning on humanity as a series of optional bosses thanks to the villains, and the main character is sent into a coma after discovering a horrible truth about themselves that involves one of the characters diving into his subconscious and exploring his past to finally bring him out of it though the same thing happened with Terra in VI as well.
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Again, I would point out that this is all in broad strokes, and I feel VII had a slightly better mythology concerning the Lifestream, but it's interesting how this game almost feels like a missing link between the two RPG titans. As if Wild ARMs took a lot of concepts from VI and added their own thing, and then Square turned around and did the same thing to this game. Course the games were only a year apart in release and most of this is likely coincidental, but the parallels are interesting to examine.
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Gameplay-wise, Wild ARMS is also deceitful, it feels kind of bare bones compared to the deeper customization systems coming out of the genre around this time, but WA keeps it fresh by having all three characters play slightly different from each other. Rudy is a slow tank type character who can acquire various guns to use in battle, they pack quite the punch but they have limited ammo and their accuracy is independent from Rudy's stats forcing you to use them in conjunction with this Force skills to make the most of them. You can take his weapons to various Experts who can raise the weapons power, accuracy, and ammo; but each weapon still has a certain limit and some really powerful weapons are stuck with abysmal accuracy and ammo. Jack is the master of the Fast Draw sword technique which he learns from various statues, weather phenomena encounter in dungeons or story events. They are quite powerful, but usually really pricey, especially with his low MP. Jack can fix this by using special cards to permanently lower their spell costs, but they only work these skills. He's the strongest natural fighter and very fast, but his defense is lower than Rudy's. Cecilia uses magic which you obtain by acquiring Crest Glyphs, which you can use with a teacher to make various spells by combining two of the four classical elements to make the spell. You have total control of which spells she learns this way and can by pass status magic for more useful healing or offense magic if you choose. You can even dissolve a spell and make another so you're not really stuck with the choice either. Eventually she will meet an advanced teacher who can teach her a whole new set of advanced spells with higher attributes and the Randomizer Spell itself can occasionally let her cast a third tier you can't get access to any other way. All three characters are surprisingly broken, but the game it built around how overpowered they are, so it never feels too easy and some boss battles (like Boomerang) can be incredibly difficult if you're not prepared.
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Force abilities were introduced in this game which is basically a limit break bar that will give access to one of four skills based on how much of the bar is filled and whether the party has learned the skill or not. The second level is the same for everyone and grants access to summons, but the character can only summon the Guardian they have equipped. Guardians come in a huge variety and most of them have to be found by exploring the map based on clues from townsfolk or some of the optional dungeons. Each character has mostly unique Force abilities. Rudy starts with Lock On which raises his accuracy to 100% and is paramount for his ARMS, Jack gets Accelerator which allows him to take his turn first regardless of the enemy speed. Cecilia learns Mystic, which allows her to make an item effect the whole team instead of one character. These abilities keep everyone feeling a bit distinct and grow more powerful as they obtain new skills throughout the game.
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In addition to all of this, Wild ARMS is the spiritual successor to Lufia 2 and the dungeons are filled with ingenious puzzles to conquer instead of just straight combat or exploring a maze. To add greater variety, each character can obtain special tools needed to progress past certain traps like Hanpan the Wind Mouse who can cross gaps to hit switches or Rudy's rocket power skates needed to get past moving floors. The puzzles keep the dungeons exciting and memorable. The game is also just filled with secrets like optional dungeons, bosses, a coliseum, and finding all of the Guardians scattered around the world. There is surprisingly amount of content in this game and even some storylines don't reach their true conclusion unless you take the extra effort to backtrack and explore the world.
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Overall, Wild ARMs to me is a simple, if well made gem of a game. It may feel like a cliche fest for some in today';s modern age, but this game was pretty rocking back in 96. I love the cast, the story, and the overall design of the game. Also, have I mentioned how great the soundtrack is, especially the opening, which might be one of my favorite openings in an RPG.
Aq8EKttSu3I

Edge7

09-11-2017, 12:30 AM

God, I have a lot of fond memories of this game. Probably one of my favorite "classic" (vintage?) RPGs.
The seven songs that play after the defeat of the final boss all the way to the credits have been a permanent playlist on my phone for the last decade (I like to call it the Wild Arms Ending Suite). Michiko Naruke is an amazing composer!

Incidentally, I got this game as a PS1 classic for my 16th birthday along with Final Fantasy XIII. Kinda funny that the game I got as an afterthought stuck with me a lot longer. Hell, it introduced me to Trigun, arguably my favorite manga.

Wolf Kanno

09-11-2017, 10:20 PM

33.
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Like with most of the FF games, I'm not going to dwell on explaining the plot or game mechanics much because I'm sure we're all familiar with it and have our own opinions. All I will say regarding the gameplay is that with the exception of the tediously long battle intros, I don't really have much of a beef with the combat. I prefer regular chess to speed chess and considering how much of a gameplay crutch Limit breaks were in the previous games (and the ones after it) I actually like the fact that Trance was designed to be unreliable because it's not like this game needed to be extra easy. So with that said, let's get on with explaining why this game is here.
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FFIX came out halfway through my senior year of high school. After putting up with the other two PS1 FFs and their obnoxious fanbases, I was excited to see that IX was going to be more of a throwback title. I actually liked the art direction, and what little I had heard about the plot seemed pretty nice. I got the game for my birthday and quickly became obsessed as I consumed it's content. The first time I ever lied to call in sick for work was partly to get out of driving in the snow, and partly so I could keep playing this game. The game hit a lot of the right notes for me, and even just thinking about the game for any length has an odd way of putting a smile on my face. Much like FFV, I'm somewhat baffled that I don't play this game as much as I should.
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We often say that IX was a retro-throwback title, but I feel that's undercutting what it really is: a celebration. A celebration of what Final Fantasy is. The game is incredibly charming and mixes it's humor with its dark moments well. The stylized graphics are a bit cartooney as well as the characters, but it's one of the best looking games Square made on the PS1 only behind Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story for me. It brings back those great FF classes but expands them and adds a good development system to keep the player invested. It's world is filled with things to do and wonderful characters to meet. I laughed, I cried, I felt things, and I frankly don't feel things very often.
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None of this is to say that IX is perfect, but even with my minor gripes with the game and story, I still consider many of them to be minor and hardly enough to wreck the game for me. The game epitomizes what I love about the series and I love how well it can juxtapose some really deep and thoughtful moments in a game that looks like it was designed by Jim Henson. In fact, I honestly miss the more whimsical nature of the franchise as every entry after has been going with some odd stylized realism and getting more serious with each entry besides a dumb joke here and there. It's like all the "fun" and "quirkiness" of the franchise has been squeezed out of it and it's why I love coming back to this gem which is unashamed to wear it's oddball nature on it's stupid cuff sleeves.
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IX was originally designed to be a celebration of the what the series was and as a farewell to the PS1 that had put the franchise and company on the world stage, but in hindsight, I also feel like it was a farewell for the fans. For me, IX is the last Final Fantasy, everything after has simply been trying too hard to recapture the magic or just wind up being some guest-directors interpretation of the franchise, yet none of them, not even XII which is on this list, have ever come close to really hitting the feel of franchise for me like the first IX games do. So for me, it gets a bit touching when you reach the end of the game and you listen to Melodies of Life, only for it to segue into the Main Theme of Final Fantasy, even back in 2000, there was a real sense that this game was soret of the end of an era, and I feel it has only gotten more poignant as time goes on.
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Vivi, Steiner, and Freya are some of my favorite characters to pop up out of the series and Kuja is still one of the last truly standout villain to grace the series. The music was amazing, the game has some of my favorite cutscenes in the series from the Black Waltz, to the battle between Bahamut and Alexander, to the entire intro of the game. IX is still the last Final Fantasy.
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Pumpkin

09-11-2017, 10:24 PM

:omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg::omgomg:

Bubba

09-12-2017, 07:35 AM

Fun fact: I'm starting my first play through of FFIX very shortly :-)

Loony BoB

09-12-2017, 12:25 PM

Oh man, I loved Wild Arms! I remember nothing about it other than that I really enjoyed it. xD

FFIX was good too.

Karifean

09-12-2017, 05:36 PM

I stand corrected.

Wolf Kanno

09-13-2017, 08:27 AM

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While the majority of games on this list could be said to be near and dear to my heart, Secret of Mana is a game that would easily rank in my top five most influential games for me. While I had dabbled in some PC and NES RPGs in the past, this is the game I consider to be my first true RPG. My friends in middle school were big on the genre and always wanted me to play some, but I was a arcade brat who liked his beat em ups and side scrolling shooters. So when this game came along, they used this as the game to bait me into playing the genre finally, and it didn't take long for me to get hooked. Even to this day, some of my fondest gaming memories from my childhood days are doing three player co-op with this. I still have a soft spot for the Sprite since I was always relegated to their character.

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In the distant past, the power of Mana flowed throughout the world. Yet some wicked forces coveted its power and tried to take it all for themselves. They built the Mana Fortress to absorb all of its power and let themselves rule the world as a deity. Yet a mysterious hero arrived with the Sword of Mana and a Mana Beast. Together they destroyed the Mana Fortress and sealed its remnants away. The power of Mana was weakened terribly from this war, but soon began to slowly recover. The hero disappeared, but their sword lived on in legend going by many names. When our story begins, this history is now considered to be nothing more than a fairy tale. The new Vandole Empire has risen, an they too wish to monopolize the last remaining power of Mana and resurrect the fortress of legend.

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When the game opens up, we are introduced to Randi, an orphan boy living in Potos Village who just wants to fit in. When he goes exploring with some other village kids near the forbidden waterfall, he gets swept away by the water and separated from the other children. He finds an old rusted sword that calls out to him. When he takes the sword from its Arthurian resting place, monsters begin to appear around his village. Randi discovers the sword is the actual Sword of Mana, its power all but nearly gone since the times of legend. Banished from his home for breaking the seal on the sword. Randi meets the Sage Luca whom tasks him with reviving the swords power and sealing the Seeds of Mana before the Empire can revive the Mana Fortress. On his way, he meets the spirited Primm, a Pandorian nobles daughter who has fallen in love with a lowly knight named Dyluck who has gone missing after a failed attack on the Witch Elinee's castle. Dyluck is now being prepared by the wicked Thanatos to serve as his new vessel and Primm pursues the two of them to rescue Dyluck. He also encounters an amnesiac Sprite named Popoi, an arrogant and boisterous being who is first met working as a con artist in the Dwarven Caves. Together, the three journey across the world seeking the Mana Seeds and trying their best to thwart the Vandole Empire. They are aided by the Eight Spirits of Mana and the baby dragon Flammie on their journey to stop the Mana Fortress' revival.

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SoM's plot is pretty standard issue for JRPG plots. Mana itself has always been a series that revels in the themes of fairy tales, but I also feel like if you're goign to go that route, you should do it well. Secret of Mana does in my opinion as it combines old tropes like the Sword in the Stone, with tales of the Fair Folk, the evil empire slick, the legend of Midas, and even a wicked witch or two. I think what is most interesting about Mana is that despite the bright and cheerful colors and cutesy enemy designs, the game is incredibly dark. Its got its humorous moments of course, but overall, there is a real sense of hopelessness in the plot. Even the ending itself is incredibly bittersweet and most of the game's major subplots like Randi's parents, Primm's search for Dyluck, and Popoi trying to reclaim their memory usually takes a downward turn once they appear. I feel its this contrast and juxtaposition of the game's graphical style and story content that really impressed me about this game. SoM may have had a pretty poor translation when it first came out, but I feel the plot gets across pretty well overall, made more apparent to me when I played the remake and saw a more "complete" version of the script which can best be described as being a bit more elegant in presentation than the original, but still gets across the same information. The few significant changes are mostly callbacks to the first Mana game.

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It's a bit ironic that it was an Action-RPG that finally got me into the genre of playing RPGs. The irony being that I'm not a big fan of the sub-genre and can be incredibly picky about the battle systems. This game is maybe one of five or six Action-RPGs on this list. It's not even for nostalgia either. Replaying the remake released a while ago, I was actually surprised how smart the gameplay is. The game reuses the Power Gauge mechanic from Final Fantasy Adventure which controls the power of your attacks. Once you swing a weapon the gauge depletes to 0 and slowly climbs back to 100%. You can actually swing the weapons with reckless abandon if you wish. but the power of the attack is based on that percentage between 0 and 100, so in order to do consistent max damage, you have to actually hold off attacking and let it recharge. This is an incredibly clever take on ATB if you think about it, and I'm a little sad future installments ignore this mechanic because it not only made combat more unique, but it gives the game an aspect I find lacking in most Action-RPGs which is a sense of tactics caused by overcoming limitations. I can't just go in swords swinging and hope for victory, I need to back off and let my power recharge, at which point I have to be careful of enemy attacks. Anyone who has taken any kind of combat training will know this is really closer to how fighting actually goes because you can't just fight continuously without tiring out. Helping things out here as well is the variety of weapon types you can use. While the group start with a Sword, knuckles, and a Boomerang; they will eventually gain a whole assortment of weapons that can be upgraded by Watts the Blacksmith. The Spirits of Mana the party encounter throughout the adventure will also lend their power and bequeath their magic power to Primm and Popoi. Primm's magic is support and healing based, while Popoi gains mostly offensive and debuff spells. Magic may be one of the only major criticisms I can give to the game's battle system as it ends up becoming a powerful crutch that will trivailize most boss fights as long as you keep up with leveling it. Seriously, as soon as the boss appears, just chain cast magic on them until you're out of MP with Popoi and then clean up with magic enhanced weapons. It will take out 95% of the bosses no problem except the final boss and every boss you face before magic becomes available. Hell, leveling Primm's magic is super easy as you can just chain cast her magic in friendly zones like Sage Luca's Water Temple and then just have Luca heal you for free as you chain cast it to the maximum level you can obtain at the moment. The only thing that keeps this from breaking the game is that Magic Level is capped at how many Mana Spirits you have at the time.

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I feel one of SoM's cooler features that gets downplayed a lot is how it has a mostly seamless world. Following in the footsteps of games like The Legend of Zelda, there is no world map, its a seamless and sometimes open world for the most part. You do get gated of course, not like you can hop a few cannon travel rides to get to the Vandole Empire the second you leave Potos Village, but the areas can be huge and there are usually multiple paths you can take to reach the same destination in places. This also plays into how the game gives you two different means of meeting and recruiting Primm. Some players may witness her story by reaching Pnadora and visiting her house after meeting Dyluck and his crew, while other players can ignore going to Pandora to just make a beeline to the Dwarf Village to reach Elinee's Haunted Forest, where they'll meet Primm during a tough mini-boss fight instead as she tries to tackle the woods alone to rescue Dyluck. This means you can actually choose the order your recruit either of the other two party members, which was pretty neat for the console genre back in the day. Likewise, the maps have challenges that require use of some of the weapons to get through. You'll need long range weapons to flip crystal switches from across chasms. You'll need the whip itself to cross said chasms, and the Axe is needed to break down stone obstacles. Even in more straightforward maps, the gameplay is involving in a logical way. Again, this is something that isn't really considered speacil anymore but looking at SoM's design, it was really well thought out. The other major claim to the game was being one of the rare multiplayer RPGs. While most FFs did have a multiplayer style feature, due to the nature of the game, SoM played almost like an arcade beat em up with its multiplayer. To say you were a popular kid in school if you had both Secret of Mana and the multiap is an understatement.

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Secret of Mana also has one of my favorite soundtracks from the 16-bit era. I still get goosebumps from hearing Fear of the Heavens, which is up there as one my all time favorite VGM tracks of all time. It is a damn shame that Hiroki Kikuta never stayed on as a composer for Square even as a freelance, because his work on both Secret of Mana and Trials of Mana are exceptional. While Mana has never had a token composer for the franchise since very few have stayed on the franchise for more than two entries; I'm sure if you asked any longtime fan of the franchise who the main composer of the franchise was it would likely be Hiroki Kikuta. Fun fact: Normally in this MIDI era, a composer would create the composition and hand it over to a sound engineer to convert the track into MIDI format. Being a complete control freak, Kikuta bypassed the enginners and composed the music using only the MIDI hardware so he would know exactly how it would sound. It shows how important this was too cause SoM is filled with really awesome tracks like Fear of the Heavens, Child of the Fairy Tribe, A Wish, Soul of the Night, Eternal Recurrence, The Eight Strokes of the Bell, Ceremony, Pure Night, The Sorceror, and Meridian Dance to name off a few. Hell, it would be easier to list off the tracks I'm not completely infatuated with.

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Of all the Mana games, I feel SoM has the most interesting backstory to its development that plays into a personal theory of mine. You see, I feel SoM was the game that really changed how Square approached their future games. Its interesting how some of the more open ended design of SoM found itself in games like Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger. Likewise, the use of Mode 7 Effects from this game were practically copied and psted into FFVI. Secret of Mana began its life as an exclusive for the upcoming Super Famicom CD-Rom Perirphial PlayStation. As many people know, Nintendo and Sony had a major disagreement over the system and eventually Nintendo sank the project which Sony turned around and released as their own system. What some don't know is what happened to a lot of the games that developers were making for the system such as SoM. Koichi Ishii had abeen a regualr at Square since the original Final Fantasy. He wanted to create his own game called Seiken Densetsu but was rejected in the early days until he was given free reigh to make Final Fantasy Gaiden (Final Fantasy Adventure for us NA fans) where he was able to sneak in his rogiinal ideas for an Action-RPG. The game did well enough for Ishii to be granted the chance to direct his own game. So along with Nasir Gebelli (Programmer of the NES FF games, and Mana being his final game for Square) and Hiromichi Tanaka as producer, Ishii was finally bale to make another entry in his Seiken Densetsu series and for the first time, had a lot of control over it. While the full scope of the game is unknown since developers kept poor records of this time, we do know that with the cancellation of the CD-Rom periphial caused the team to have to convert over everything they made for this game down into the smaller cartridge format. Some features that are known to have been lost was the fact the game originally had multiple endings and featured a more open ended playstyle with multiple story paths. A lot of the planned content had to either be cut or reworked to fit the older format, and this did create some technical issues, though I would point out that this may have also saved the game from dealing with loading times. Ishii estimates that about 40% of the original content had to be axed for the game and sadly I do feel it shows as the plot does feel a bit choppy in places which were not helped by the games skin of its teeth translation job by Ted Woolsey who had a mere 30 days to translate the whole game which was further hampered by the text being sent to him out of order and the game being stuck to using a font style that drastically limited how much could be displayed. Of anything, it's a miracle this game did so well in in North America.

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Ishii has said that Secret of Mana feels like his own game, and he's right. While SoM is the second game in the series, it really should be considered the true first entry as Adventure still utilizes too many elements from Final Fantasy to be its own thing. Likely the reason Ishii choce to remake the game as Sword of Mana years later, which is an unapologetic Mana title that stripped out all the FF elements and crammed it full of Mana ones instead. Secret of Mana just has a unique and different feel from Adventure and having more creative control allowed Ishii to make a game that start the third pillar of Square's RPG juggernaut status in the mid 90s along with Final Fantasy and SaGa. Perhaps I lucked out and was simply part of an outlier group of people, but among my friends and gaming classmates, Secret of Mana and the Mana franchise in general were well regarded and praised on the same level as Final fantasy and Chrono Trigger. Even quirky Legend of Mana was pretty popualr among my peers at the time.

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SoM finally allowed Ishii to create his own series, and this game inparticualr expanded the mythology and feel that would become quintessential for the series. Flammie, Rabites, the Mana Spirits, and a few other elements. Probably the biggest contribution is creating the central ecological theme of the series by merging the usual magical macguffin trope that runs rampant in the genre and by grounding it into this idea of Mana as a natural elemental force that is interconnected with life and the planet. While this isn't necessarily new for Square since the first Final Fantasy pulled this off as well, I don't really feel like FF has hit as close to Mana has on this message with a few major exceptions like V and VII. Helping to drive this mesaage is really the art direction of the game. Again, Mana has always had a more cutesy rt direction from other Square and JRPGs in general. Yet I've always felt this was intentional as a way to really show the corruption caused by the misuse of Mana. Rabites just don't look like something you should ever be worried about, and yet there is something unsetteling about having to chop them down left and right. This is especially poignant in this title as the story explains that monsters really didn't start to bother certain places like Potos Village until the Sword of Mana's seal was broken. It gets interesting to see how monsters go from being really cutesy like Tropicallo, who is a funny looking Palm Tree looking creature and then get further along to face something like the infamous Dark Lich. Again, that inner darkness and juxtapositon really plays well together in this series as most people who played this game back in the day will likely talk about how disturbing Thanatos is as a villain. Its scary to think that Hiromichi Tanaka has said the original script for this game was much darker. Somethign I feel most fans won't argue with considering how darker and edgier Trials of Mana turned out to be in comparison.

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Likewise, another aspect I like about the game was how it really deconstructs and reconstructs the Arthurian Sword of Legend story angle. The Mana Sword is a rusty relic by the time Randi finds it, and even the knight Jemma feels he was only able to retrieve the weapon was because its power had faded too much. So randi finds himself in the ignoble task of having to try and restore the swords power since it was his fault for breaking the seal. He's treated as the unchosen one and many figures in the story, while happy to see the sword of legend return, are not quite as thrilled with the country bumpkin attached to it. This of course gets completely subverted towards the end of the game when its revealed that Randpossesses a bloodline connected to the Tribe of Mana and his father was the last Mana Knight. The deconstruction here is that while this gave Randi the power to weild the sword, he still had to work towards becoming worthy of its power by restoring it and stopping the Vandole Empire, making it much closer in line to some Arthurian myths in the process. Ishii has described his take on Mana as an unfolding mythology shown in the medium of video games. Funny enough, SoM feels abit bare bones compared to many of the games that came after it in this regard, but I feel the games interesting handling of old myths and legends really add to this fairy tale feel of the game that would become more and more predominate as the series grew.

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Two years ago, Square-Enix finally released a remake of this game, and while I had a lot of fun replaying it, I'm not going to lie. I was a bit disappointed in it as I was hoping for SE to do more with the game, maybe try to add back some elements that were cut or add a few new features. Instead, I was given a graphical update at best, which itself is more humble than the powerhouse consoles the game was released for. I still stand by my theory that the remake was a Vita title originally that was then changed into a console port when it was almost finished. My bigger upset was that playing the upcoming Trials of Mana remake, which took great strives to translate the game into a true 3D gaming experience has me only thinking about what might had been if the same care had been placed on this title. Still, I am grateful that SE chose to remake the game anyway and to even release it again.

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Mana was an important series for me growing up, and so seeing SE work to bring it back has been one of the most pleasant things to come out of the company in the past few years. Secret of Mana will always be a game near and dear to my heart. It formally introduced me to a life long love of JRPGs, and I still find the game to be inspiring to this day. despite my disappointment with the remake, I still had a blast playing through it because the core game holds up way better than I could imagine.While the game only clocks in at 32 for this list, I still have days where this game could creep into my top ten if I wanted to. This is easily my nostalgia title for the SNES and just thinking about this game makes me feel all warm and gooey inside as I remember fun summer evening playing this game to completion or awesome sleep overs at a friends house tackling the Mana Beast in multiplayer. Lately, some of my old college friends have wanted me to hang out with them to replay this game and if I can spare the time, I'm going to take them on the offer.

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If this was a list simply about the most important games in my life, this would probably top five material right here. While Battletech was my first real role-playing game and I had played a few Zelda titles here and there, this is what I actually think of when I talk about my first RPG. I had two friends in middle school who loved the genre and wanted me to play it and I always declined on the grounds that I loved action games more. So when one of them convinced me to try out an Action-RPG, I said "why the hell not?" and borrowed it. If I told myself then how much this game was going to open up both my passion for a new genre of games, but also something that would have more personal impacts on my life, I would probably laugh it off.I ended up buying the game from my friend, and I still have his older brother's save file on it where he renamed the main cast with "dick" in all of them. Childish, but hilarious even now for the blackmail potential.

A long time ago, evil forces once tried to take control of Mana, the primordial force that creates and controls the world, and built an evil fortress powered by it to subjugate the world. With the power of Mana draining from the machines engines, the world nearly lost the power of Mana until a warrior appeared, brandishing the Mana sword, who slayed the evil doers and stopped the Mana Fortress. While the warrior eventually passed on, his sword continued to be well known through legend as it changed owners hands before disappearing in the flow of time.

In the modern age, both the Sword of Mana and the Mana Fortress are simply myths and while great feats of magic are still possible with the little Mana left in the world, it's power too has faded to obscurity. One day, outside of the village of Potos, the orphan Randi travels with two boys in the village looking for a treasure rumored to be near the waterfall. The boys are trying to keep their treasure hunt a secret because the place is also forbidden. Randi slips on the log bridge and falls down the waterfall. Unharmed, he sees that the growth of vegetation has blocked his path and can't proceed. Looking for something to cut it, Randi discovers the shiny object, a rusted sword thrust into a stone. Hearing an odd voice calling for him, Randi takes the sword and a bright light flashes before he sees the vision of an eerie ghost. Despite the shock, Randi cuts his way out of the lake-bed and soon discovers monsters roaming the woods around the town, despite none ever being in the area. When he returns home, he's chastised for entering the forbidden area with the other boys before the elder sees in horror that Randi has the rusted sword which legend says if it was ever to be pulled out from its resting place, the village and world would soon face calamity. Blamed for the sudden appearance of monsters, Randi is attacked by one of the children before an earthquake swallows them up and they are nearly eaten by a Mantis monster. With the guidance of the Knight Jema and using the sword, Randi fights off the monster but is exiled from the village for his transgression. Jema informs him that the sword he holds is the legendary Mana Sword and tasks him with restoring the sword. On his journey, Randi meets Primm, a young feisty tomboy in search of her love Dyluck who disappeared on a mission for their village; and Popoi, a rare Sprite creature with amnesia who is trapped in the dwarven jails for his mischievous behavior. The three embark on a journey across the world to restore the sword and Mana itself while fighting off the evil forces who wish to revive the Mana Fortress for their own deeds.

Released in 93, Secret of Mana is a sequel to Final Fantasy Adventure (Seiken Densetsu: Final Fantasy Gaiden) and the first game in the series to bear the Mana title. Originally envisioned as Square's first major title to utilize CD-Rom technology on the new Super Famicom CD attachment being built by Sony, when the CD unit was scrapped, Square found themselves in the conundrum of having spent a large amount of time and money on the project with no system to release it. Not wishing for it to go to waste, the game was condensed onto the much smaller cartridge medium of the time. So if you ever wondered why Secret of Mana feels a bit choppy or say drops the plot and just starts telling you to go here and do this, that's why. This debacle is also pointed out by some people to be when Square started to form plans to leave Nintendo for another platform. Despite this hardship, the team did their best to build a rather groundbreaking Action-RPG which made use of the SNES multitap to have three player co-op, and I will say it was smurfing amazing back in the day to do so.

Gameplay is pretty simple on paper, but actually has a surprising amount of depth for it's time. You can walk around the screen and interact with monsters with the attack button. Every time you swing your weapon, a timer appears on the status bar showing how much longer until your next attack will be full power. You can swing with wild abandon if you wish, but your hits will be weak, whereas waiting for the timer to fill back up to 100% will guarantee a strong attack. I didn't really understand it when I first played, but it doesn't take long to instinctively realize what's going on. Primm and Popoi can use magic which involves pulling up the inventory screen and selecting the Mana Spirit you wish to summon and perform which spells. Primm focuses on healing and support magic, while Popoi gets mostly offensive magic. What's actually really groundbreaking about this game is the seamless world it creates, something borrowed from Zelda but still distinctively Square with the shops and greater emphasis on graphics. Your party actually travels to several unique locations ranging from deserts, snowy forests, a really cool forest that changes seasons as you pass through it, dark tombs and even the Moon. The Pure Lands are easily one of the most atmospheric locations in the game with it's gorgeous music and pain in the ass difficulty spike. In addition, the various weapons you gaincan also be used to pass obstacles like using the axe to break heavy wood barriers, or using the whip to traverse gaps between cliffs, the game has a cool Zelda-vibe going for it. Despite the game's cutesy designs and up beat soundtrack, Secret of Mana is a surprisingly somber experience. It's a bit funny to imagine how a game where your party kind of beats up Santa Claus (yes, that one) can also be a game with some truly gut-punching moments like Popoi regaining his memories, Primm and Dylucks story, as well as anytime Randi learns anything about his parents. The game's ending, like the whole franchise in general, is pretty bittersweet with the party having to fight a friend and and lose another. Helping the game's plot are some really great tracks by Hiroki Kikuta who went on to do Seiken Densetsu 3's OST as well.

What's really interesting about this game is also how much it radically changed a lot of RPGs after it. While Square had been experimenting with Mode 7 effects in earlier titles like FFIV and V as well as the Romancing SaGa series, it's interesting how many elements wound up in later games like FFVI and Chrono Trigger to give them some really cool psudeo-3D effects. In fact the whole layout of Flammie flying your party was copy and pasted for FFVI's airships. The game also experimented with better sprite work and finally moving the genre away from the traditional one graphics for traveling and other for fighting, as the sprites for exploration is the same in comabt, another feature seen many of Squares later 16-bit titles and something they stuck to in the PS1 generation when their knowledge of the tech would allow them to. In a lot of ways, this game is kind of the beginning of the new era for Square in terms of bringing about their visual and design philosophy they hold onto. While the game looks adn plays pretty simplistically b modern standards, this game was actually pretty groundbreaking and even before my friend lent the game to me, I was aware of it's existence because a lot of gaming mags I read at the time liked to do spotlights on it.

This is another one of those games where simply thinking about it really draws me back to parts of my childhood and I will honestly still get in the mood to play this game while watching videos of Sailor Moon or Gargoyles cause that's what I was into around the time I was playing this. I even wrote some awful stories that were close to blatant ripoffs of this game, but it really got my creative juices flowing and if I'm going to do the magic sword plot device, I kind of take my cues from this game.

I'm actually kind of excited to see this game get a remake next year. Despite the grating English voice they gave to Randi, I'm hoping to see if SE might either put back some of the cut content, or at least finally give us a decent translation outside of the mobile port. Of anything, it will be nice to play three player co-op again. If you haven't experienced this gem of a game yet, check it out. I'm still draggin my feet to play is supposed superior sequel, but I'm looking forward to it.

Fynn

09-13-2017, 08:38 AM

I played this on my iPhone and liked it a lot, but then near the end I just stopped playing and never came back to it. I have no idea why. I think I just got distracted and forgot about it. But maybe I'll get the 3D remake and fix that!

theundeadhero

09-13-2017, 05:55 PM

I have a fond memory of the first time I played through this game. I borrowed it from a friend of mine one summer, then happened to stay over at my cousin's house that night. We 24-hour marathoned it, beating it in that time. He wasn't really into RPGs but the action of combat really helped him stick it out. The memories of laughs and fun we had that night are far more prominent than anything that actually happened in the game. What I do remember is the intensity of the boss fights. It probably would have taken me much longer to get through them if I had to rely on AI instead of another person.

Spuuky

09-13-2017, 06:08 PM

I actually don't think SD3 is superior (although it is very good). There's something uniquely charming about the world of SoM.

Del Murder

09-13-2017, 09:15 PM

FFIX and SoM - both fantastic. Can't wait for the SoM remake. I still need to play Wild Arms.

Wolf Kanno

09-14-2017, 08:59 AM

I'm thinking of playing my next game on this list for a little while to get a better feel for what I should say about it. You still have your two remaining clues to figure out the next two. I feel the last one is kind of obvious with the clues, but surprised no one has come close to the next entry, but I probably made the hints too vague. I'll give you two more clues:

1st Clue

One game is an interesting take on communication abilities.
One game is what I feel may be the greatest licensed game of all time.

2nd Clue

"With some, we're certain our hearts must have been acquainted, long before we ever met them." ~Shakieb Orgunwall
"Work smarter, not harder." ~ Allan F. Mogensen

3rd Clue

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/aADExWV1bsM

Fynn

09-14-2017, 09:02 AM

Maybe you're just losing touch

Wolf Kanno

09-15-2017, 09:52 AM

On further review, my next entry is too good to be this low on the list and so I switched it with another title that I felt I was being a bit too generous about. Update will be tomor... I guess later today if my clock is right. ^^;

Wolf Kanno

09-15-2017, 10:19 PM

31.
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DuckTales was one of my favorite Disney cartoons growing up, and Scrooge McDuck is easily one of my favorite characters in the Disney pantheon. So it's not a huge surprise that I was a big fan of the game made by Capcom based on the cartoon show. This is actually the first NES game I had ever beaten, and the last licensed title on this list.
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Combining elements of Mega Man and Mario, DuckTales is a simple story about Scrooge traveling the world to obtain five of the great treasures of the world to build his fortune and prestige, or go bankrupt trying. Each world is based on a different location ranging from the infamous Amazon to the actual Moon. Scrooge uses his trusty cane to pogo stick off enemies heads and to send heavy objects flying to defeat opponents, destroy walls, and hit objects in the air. The gameplay elements are actually really clever and add some serious challenge to traversing the maps.
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At the time of it's creation, I feel Capcom had sort of hit a serious good stride for their platformers, because while this is my favorite entry, the other adaptiosn they did for Disney as well as a few other obscure standalone titles are all seriously solid contenders that are easily on par with Nintendo and Sega's mascot character franchises.
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Even more fun for me is how much Capcom took from the show to make the game. Most of the major Duck characters from the show make cameo appearances in the level, including divisive characters like Gizmo Duck and Bubba. The enemies and bosses are taken from the show as well. The aliens from the Moon level are based off an episode about a Star Trek knockoff getting picked up by real aliens. The weird subterranean people are featured heavily in the African Mines stage, and several other interesting nods to the show the game is an adaption of.
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Honestly, I love this game cause it hits all of the right notes of how a licensed title should be. Plenty of shout outs to the source material and actual solid gameplay. Alos, it's mother fucking DuckTales, and what's not to love?
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Spuuky

09-15-2017, 10:26 PM

Let the record show that this is not even my favorite DuckTales game (that would be DuckTales: The Quest for Gold).

Del Murder

09-15-2017, 10:53 PM

Woo-hoo!

Scotty_ffgamer

09-16-2017, 12:34 AM

Wolf Kanno

09-16-2017, 04:58 AM

Did you ever play the remake? What are thoughts on it compared to the original. I never played any of the old duck tales games but own the remake. I never could get into it, but I feel like I might like the original more.

No, I never felt the game could be improved by one, so I gave it a pass, but I may check it out someday. If it's similar to any Remake I've seen of old school platformers, then I'm sure they made the mistake of adding animation frames that weren't there which makes the game slightly slower than the original. I remember Rondo of Blood had that issue.

Scotty_ffgamer

09-16-2017, 06:54 AM

I'll eventually play the original. I've always liked the old capcom platformers.

Wolf Kanno

09-16-2017, 08:31 PM

30.
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And now for something completely different. :shifty:
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This one may come as a surprise to some of you, and for those it doesn't perhaps it's high ranking on my list will. Dance Dance Revolution is one of my favorite Rhythm games and my second favorite arcade series. I discovered this game just by frequenting arcades with a friend and the two of us decided, "why the hell not?". So we threw some quarters in played a song on Easy Mode, and were pretty badly humiliated in front of a crowd watching. Yet the two of us had a blast fumbling around the controls and resolved ourselves to get better. At which point the obsession kicked in and soon I was practicing at the arcade and trying to get the home version as well.
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Back when Konami was still a good company and made awesome games, their music arcade series was super popular in Japan. While DDR couldn't save the arcade scene here, it did give it a last little pop before the scene almost completely disappeared. There is no plot, you simply choose your difficulty mode, whether you want to play solo, two player, or doubles where you use both controls. Then you simply choose your songs and see if you can survive.
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I think what I loved about the games was the fantastic selection of songs combined with the novelty and exercise I got out of it. I know I probably come across as a "Comic Book Guy" from the Simpsons who simply sits at his computer or TV playing games all day long, but I'm surprisingly athletic and in decent shape besides my upper body needing more love. So the physicality of the game was actually a selling point for me and I feel the game helped with my terrible core muscles. I know some people like playing the game to show off, I had one friend I introduced the game to who became more obsessed than I did and he loved going to arcades to show off his "mad skillz". I enjoyed the challenge and music more, which often got us into spats when we played with each other cause I loved doing some of the difficult slow songs whereas he hated them because they weren't flashy enough.
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The music selection mostly sticks to dance style music with several remixes of classic songs or even just popular music when you played the home versions. I mean jamming out to David Bowie's "Let's Dance" is pretty neat, but the real treat for me was just playing the Bemani artist music. Bemani was Konami's music division that made all of their music arcade games including Guitar Freaks and Beatmania in addition to DDR, and they were filled with artist from their other series as well, including Silent Hills Akira Yamaoka. My favorite artist was easily Naoki Maeda who composed a good chunk of the music for the earlier entries including stand out tracks like "Dynamite Rave" which is considered DDR's theme song.
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I know a lot of people are too embarrassed to play something like this, even in public, but much like karaoke, most people will applaud you for having the stones to try than whether you're actually good or not. I still invite everyone to give the game shot, it's super fun series and easier to get into than people think, you simply need to not get discouraged and remember not to return to the central square but stay on the arrow keys.
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Spuuky

09-16-2017, 09:42 PM

I had to quit DDR when I moved into an apartment building. Maybe some day I will return (although I mostly played Stepmania on the PC later, with the DDRs all imported).

theundeadhero

09-16-2017, 10:44 PM

I used to play it in the mall whenever I went there, but was never very good at it. A friend and I saw it one day, knew what it was, and we both instantly knew we were doing it. It became a tradition to play it every weekend or two. I imagine most people weren't very impressed. No one ever said anything to us, even though we got the occasional weird stare, but it was fun, and that's all that matters.

Scotty_ffgamer

09-16-2017, 10:53 PM

I think it irritated my parents when I played this back in middle and high school. I'd play for hours on end when I was most into it and trying to unlock everything. I just loved having something with a lot of music I enjoyed and arcadey gameplay to keep myself in shape. Unfortunately, I think all of my ddr mats are ruined or lost at this point, and I don't know if there is still anywhere around here that has a machine. I might have to buy another mat soon and play this again... it might help me get back into shape.

Wolf Kanno

09-17-2017, 09:59 PM

Not going to have time to do an entry today, so I'll instead play the hint game for the 20s. Here you go.

29. 74245
28. https://i.imgur.com/0aiYrr0.gif
27. https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-07-2015/U71s53.gif
26. 74246
25. 74247
24. 74248
23. https://bestgifs.makeagif.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/little-girls-judo.gif
22. 74249
21. 74250
20. 74251

Slothy

09-17-2017, 10:22 PM

If 29 isn't civilization I don't know what it could be. Mostly because of fighting Ghandi that aggressive, nuke happy, bastard.

theundeadhero

09-17-2017, 11:40 PM

I would guess it's another Street Fighter based on that gif.

Fynn

09-18-2017, 08:57 AM

24. 74248

You'll never see it coming~!

Wolf Kanno

09-18-2017, 09:51 AM

While I feel a few of them are pretty obvious, 23-21 will be the most difficult, especially the David Bowie one because as far as I know, only a few EoFFers have heard about that one. I'll give a hint to the GIFs to help you understand my logic.

29. Don't follow the quote, just the idea.
28. The lyrics to the song this GIF is from is the clue. How well do you know your 90s music?
27. Same as 28. How well do you know your 90s anime ending themes?
26. The video game equivalent.
25. Probably should have used the GIF from 29.
24. Kind of obvious... and pretty recent. How well do you know your 70s anime?
23. If you can guess 29, then just focus on the little kid aspect of the video.
22. He's kind of a robot cop I guess.
21. Don't focus on the words, just focus on which persona David Bowie is and think of that theme.
20. I feel this one is obvious. Focus on what San is known as to help.

I'll probably have 29 up later today.

Fynn

09-18-2017, 09:58 AM

OK so 27 is Bayonetta? And then 21 is Xenosaga because Ziggy Stardust?

Wolf Kanno

09-18-2017, 10:08 AM

OK so 27 is Bayonetta? And then 21 is Xenosaga because Ziggy Stardust?

Well considering I mentioned that Episode 1 was my favorite entry when I talked about it, the chances of the sequels showing up higher than it is looking slim. Besides, I also mentioned it was a game very few EoFFers have heard of, though I know Mirage is a fan of it. ;)

I also can't fathom where you're getting bayonetta from 27. I've never even played it to be honest.

Fynn

09-18-2017, 10:11 AM

Because it has Fly Me to the Moon for its main theme. Duh :roll2

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So is it To the Moon then?

Wolf Kanno

09-18-2017, 10:13 AM

Because it has Fly Me to the Moon for its main theme. Duh :roll2

So is it To the Moon then?

Fly me to the Moon.

Fynn

09-18-2017, 10:14 AM

No, I meant if the game is To The Moon. But judging by your response, I think I have my answer :p

Wolf Kanno

09-18-2017, 07:05 PM

29.
74259

Again, if I was doing a list on my top most impactful games, this would be in the top five. As I moved away from beat-em ups in the arcade scene, I happen upon Street Fighter and the 90s arcade revival scene it brought along with it. While I sucked back in the day due to being too dumb and poor to really dedicate myself to it and understand the rules and concepts of the medium; none of that dissuade me from liking the concept and obsessing over it as a kid. So much so that when I learned the games were coming to home console, I immediately wanted to see. I had my dad rent me a Sega Genesis at the time because it was the console I wanted to have after my Nintendo, but trying to play SFII on it with it's limited controller made me realize that the SNES would be a better choice if I wanted to play it and not have to buy an arcade stick to play the game properly. So in essence, this is the game that got me an SNES, which eventually lead to my RPG friends lending me Secret of Mana and FFVI, which eventually lead me to my love of the RPG genre. Go figure.
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I did learn some interesting tidbits about this game. SFII: Turbo was the direct result of Capcom shutting down a fan mod of Street Fighter II: Champion Editions called Street Fighter II: The Rainbow Edition where the designers heavily modified all of the games specials to ridiculous proportions like homing fireballs, Blanka Rolls that have him loop around the screen, and other shenanigans. The game also had ridiculous speed added to it, so Capcom shut down the game but then incorporated several ideas from it for this edition. The most obvious was boosting the games speed which was a must because the original was slow as hell and I still get kind of pissy when I feel like the game is a bit too slow. It also modified some moves and added new ones for characters. For instance, Chun-Li got a fireball in the fan mod, and Capcom apparently liked it enough to give it to her. Dhalsim also gained his teleport move and as far as I know, Guile's moveset was finalized for this game cause the man has never changed since. It was also nice that this game retained elements from Champion Edition like the ability to play as the bosses.
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This is probably the SF game I have spent the most time with, I even beat the game with every character and tried to go for the super secret higher difficulty endings, though I did fail on those ones. Sadly, while the SNES controller did offer the ability to use the whole moveset of the characters, that D-Pad still left much to be desired for performing special moves, so I probably wasn't quite at my peak for the series. Still I had an absolute blast with this title and it still remains one of my favorite SNES games.For those wondering, I'm a Shoto guy, but I also play Blanka, E.Honda, and M. Bison though I'm rusty with the last two. I want to get better with Chun-Li but her moveset doesn't mesh well with my style, same with Sagat.

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Reminiscing about it, this does remind me that I have some of the later and more popular versions like Super Street Fighter II: Turbo and even Street Fighter III's later versions which I also enjoy, but this is the one I know the best which is why it's here and not them. Despite that, this game isn't my favorite entry in the franchise, but you'll understand that pretty soon.While I do like the fighting game genre, I never really strayed from Street Fighter or Capcom. I've played some Darkstalkers and even dabbled in Mortal Kombat with the second entry, but I've never really found the same kind of hook I got from this series. I think Guilty Gear may have been the closest.

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Del Murder

09-18-2017, 07:37 PM

I played SFII more but Turbo is just an upgraded version so I also lean towards that one. SFII was definitely a top 5 influential game of the 90s.

Wolf Kanno

09-19-2017, 08:36 PM

28.
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Oh man, I've been wanting to talk about this series for awhile now. Until I made this list, I didn't quite realize how much I really enjoyed this series and how angry I am that we'll never it's proper conclusion due to both Konami kind of killing the franchise and their new business model means it will probably never see a sequel after the PSP spin-off. In truth, this entry is the one responsible for really getting me invested in the series. While I had played and enjoyed the original, I missed the second entry and it wasn't until this game came out that I began to really take notice of the series and go back to fill in the missing gaps.
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I'll try to make the background synopsis brief: Very loosely based on the Chinese novel "The Water Margin" the series is set in a European/Asian influenced setting that is governed by 27 True Runes that each control a fundamental aspect of the world such as Fire, Life and Death, or even the Night. If a mortal should obtain one of these runes, they are granted immortality and eternal youth as well as the runes power. All magic in the world is derived from one of the runes as are many of the creatures that inhabit it. Suffice to say, these runes become a central element of conflict whenever they pop up in history and so the series follows a series of regional wars that erupt when countries and individuals battle it out for them. Central to the game is that all of them entail a hero caught up in a terrible war within their homelands caused by man's greed or historical circumstances and they decide to fight off the menace by building an army composed of 108 individuals to help them in their conquest. What makes the series stand uot besides it's strong casts political drama is the historical significance of the games one each other in their collected world. Events and characters in one game will sometimes wind up in later titles and this adds an interesting historical element to the games not seen in most fictional settings.
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Suikoden III is set 15 years after the Dunan Unification War (Suikoden II) in a region to the northwest called the Grasslands which is a territory controlled by the Six Clans of indeginous groups who find themselves in constant territorial disputes with the Zexen Federation, a merchant guild based country that formed on the western sea border and their industry keeps pushing them eastward into the Clans territory. Fifty years prior to the story, the land had been besieged by the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia (think fantasy Rome if it were more of a theocracy) who invaded the lands to obtain the True Fire Rune. A young warrior from the Clans, only known as the Flame Champion, obtained the Rune and united the clans to push back Harmonia. After a devastating battle where the Rune's power went out of control and nearly destroyed both armies, the Clans and Harmonia made a truce that would last for fifty years on the condition that Harmonia keep some of the territory they had acquired. The truce is coming to a close and the Clans themselves have been in constant conflict with Zexen for so long, the two sides are finally getting ready to sign their own peace accords, but other figures have their own intentions for the region and it's true rune.
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Unique to Suikoden III within the series, the game actually has three protagonists and the story is told from three distinct point of views through various chapters. Hugo is the son of Lucia (Suikoden II), the Chief of the Karaya Clan, and he's tasked with being the messenger to drop off records pertaining to the truce between the Six Clans and Zexen. Hugo fancies himself a warrior but he's too young to really understand the ramifications of war, and he is still confined by the prejudice between both groups against each other. He travels with his his pet Fubar, a baby Griffon he grew up with; Lulu, his childhood friend who is a few years younger than him; and Sgt. Joe, a member of the Duck Clan and the voice of reason in the group. When the war renews itself, Hugo is sidelined due to his position as future leader of the clans but also due to his age, he instead travels the Grasslands looking for the Flame Champion who saved them all years before.
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Chris Lightfellow is a member of the Zexen Knights who was recently promoted to Captain of the Knights after a recent battle that saw the deaths of the former commanders of the knights, and her own heroic bravery in leading the survivors to victory after such a devastating battle. Chris loves her homeland and wishes to protect it's people but she is weary of dealing with the Zexen Council who seem to be more motivated by their business interests than their people. Thrust into the spot of leadership as well as being a beloved hero of the people and a vile Red Baron-esque foe to the enemies, Chris is a bit overwhelmed by the pressure she's put under. While her closest knights all adore her and try to do what they can to help her burden, Chris still finds herself feeling melancholic about the mysterious disappearance of her father years ago and wonders now if he may still be alive somewhere. When the war renews, Chris starts by protecting her kingdom and even commits a war crime to save her men from a dire situation, afterwards she receives information that her father still lives and is in hiding somewhere in the Grasslands. Chris goes undercover with a Harmonian spy named Nash (SuikoGaiden series) to travel the Grasslands to learn more about her enemies and find her father who is connected to the Flame Champion.
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Geddoe is a mysterious mercenary and Captain of the Twelfth Unit of the Southern Defense Force, which is part of a large battalion of mercenaries used to guard Harmonia's borders from invasions. While on a mission in the Grasslands, Geddoe's unit gets orders to investigate the rumors of the return of the Flame Champion and to obtain his True Fire Rune if possible. With several connections within the Grasslands and Harmonia, Geddoe finds the sudden interest in the Flame Champion to be a bit too coincidental and begins investigating the issue which leads him to learn that not only is someone trying to re-spark the Zexen/Six Clan conflict, but also mobilize Harmonian forces to take advantage of the conflict. Geddoe's journey takes him farther than most of the characters and explores his mysterious connection with the Fire Bringers and their leader, the Flame Champion.
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A fourth POV character is also unlocked concerning Thomas, a young boy of about twelve who hails from the North Lands and is the illegitimate son of a Zexen Noble. Wishing to meet his father after his mother's death, his father sets him up in a rundown castle far to the north of the capital to save himself from scandal. Now Lord of the Castle, Thomas is tasked by the few remaining inhabitants to try to revitalize the commerce of the region and Thomas finds himself both discovering the castles connections to the Flame Champion, his own good business sense, and dealing again with an outsiders perspective on the Zexen Six Clans disputes. All three POV characters pass through at some point and Thomas actually fulfills the role of collecting new party members. There is a fifith POV character obtained if you beat the game with all 108 Stars of Destiny collected and it fills in some more backstory to the main conflict but I won't spoil it because it's actually one of the best rewards in the series for doing the whole collectathon.
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Each of the three main protagonists get about three chapters to complete their story, and you must complete all three characters chapters to finally move onto the the final two chapters of the games conflict. It's interesting how well each of the characters tales intertwine with each other. The game deals with serious topics such as war crimes, cycle of revenge that maintains these types of constant conflicts, the idea of what it means to be a hero for the people, and cultural identity. One of the more detailed plotlines involves the Bug Riders, who were former members of the Grassland Clans before Harmonia took over their territory during the Flame Bringer War fifty years ago. Subjected to Harmonia's caste system, the group is mobilized by Harmonia to attack their former allies in the hopes they can finally be upgraded to second class citizens where they can finally gain some rights. The issue is that some of the older members of the clan still maintain loyalty to their former allies and the hope they will one day be liberated, while the new generation raised in Harmonia can't see themselves being liberated and are simply trying to find an alternate method to better their people. The game delves into complicated issues like that and despite the fantasy elements all around, the game handles most of it's serious topics incredible well.
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In fact, the game's incredibly strong cast is one of the best things about the game. Thanks to the perspective switch with the POV characters, each character has their own large collection of allies and characters to explore which allows for the player to feel more intimate with the series usual staggering amount of characters. There are also quite a few shout-outs to the previous entries as many recruits are either grown up versions of some of the child characters from previous games such as Tuta the medic, rich bitch Lilly Pendragon of Tinto, and the final conclusion to Futch's story arc which began all the way back in the first game. You even meet some of the kids of characters from previous entries and even the cantankerous Star Dragon Sword makes an appearance although without the wonderful Viktor/Flik duo outside of a name drop. While most entries are pretty self-contained, Suikoden III has enough shout-outs and story depth to make it more rewarding to have played through the previous entries. Sadly, the Save Data feature is a bit of a dud in this entry as it doesn't net you a whole lot like the previous game or Suikoden Tactics.
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On the gameplay side of things, Suikoden III is much more experimental than the rest of the franchise barring spin-offs. While it still stays true to most of the series formula, the game features a new turn based battle system that fully incorporates a semi-realistic take on 3D battles. What I mean by this is that while characters start in their typical sides, once the battle starts, the characters and enemies will move around the battle field to obtain their objective and the game has friendly fire with the magic system. This introduces some unique tactical depth to the series that is surprisingly lacking for a series about mobilizing armies to win wars, but also brings a lot of contrived annoyances that makes the system pretty divisive among the fanbase. Most fans dislike the friendly fire aspect with magic while others were put off by the new buddy system which took away direct control of half your party. If you can either learn to look past these issues or simply embrace the novelty they bring to generic turn base combat, you'll find that SIII actually has one of the more rewarding battle systems in the series. A bigger blemish on the game is the world map mechanics that make getting anywhere in the game more tedious than usual, especially jarring since the character who can teleport you around shows up incredibly late in this entry.
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Less controversial is the game's new Skill System where the player can put points into special background skills to improve a characters battle capabilities. There is a wide-breath of skills and each character has their own level of proficiency with them which makes most of the games fighters feel really distinct from each other which helps address a large complaint most people have with the series. With that said, the mechanic is overpowered in the players favor and outside of appearing again in Suikoden Tactics, has largely been gutted or heavily modified in the later installments. Another new feature is the Mount system where certain characters can ride large beast allies and combine their stats for extra power. This also was deemed too powerful and kind of got nerfed in subsequent games.
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In series tradition, SIII introduces a new Army Battle system in which your army must capture nodes on a map and can garner benefits by having allies in adjacent nodes helping them to attack enemy units. What's really unique about it is that the actual battles are played out in a semi-A.I. battle system similar to the Battle Ogre series where your units are composed of the allies you gain and you choose to either attack, defend, or retreat against enemies and the computer determines what attacks you use. What the game kind of fails to mention is that your characters stats are directly taken from the main game, so having a unit with a character you barely use will often lead to disastrous results whereas an overleveled constant party member can sometimes solo the battle fields if the RNG gods feel generous. This makes using the whole playable cast even more important than previous installments. This is especially crucial when the game throws in Yuber or the actual Harmonian Army to deal with as both are as absolutely terrifying in battle as the series builds them up to be.
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Suikoden III has an odd place in the series history. Despite being the best selling entry, it's regarded as the middle child of the franchise. It's the third entry in the series but canonically the last entry on the timeline. It was the final game developed by the series creator before he left Konami, but the game drops a few of the legacy myth arcs of the series and instead introduces a whole new collection of myth arcs which were sadly never gone into as all of the later entries sidestepped the issues by being prequels. It's the last entry to really innovate the franchises basic mechanics, but a lot of it got ignored in the fourth entry while the fifth entry borrowed more from Suikoden II. It changes a lot of the series narrative focus such as getting an incredibly late start to the army building side of things and spends more time delving into the social aspects of the conflict. It drops the silent protagonist and the players ability to change their name. So it's kind of divisive, though not in the same "love it/hate it" way you usually see in other franchises. Of anything, most fans are simply sad that a lot of the new plot threads introduced in the game will never see resolution and several of the series myth arcs like are dropped in later installments. Overall, despite it's flaws and being a semi-fugly looking early PS2 JRPG, I honestly feel it's one of the best JRPGs on the system.
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Shauna

09-19-2017, 08:47 PM

I have been considering what to play next.

Suikoden III it is.

Bubba

09-19-2017, 10:03 PM

Suikoden has always been a series that I've been tempted by. Never taken the plunge but it's always there taunting me... just like my entire unfinished gaming backlog.

Scotty_ffgamer

09-19-2017, 11:10 PM

I still need to get through suikoden II. I have the third one, but I've never touched it.

Raistlin

09-20-2017, 12:14 AM

I love Suikoden III, and it remains a great game. However, the series' entrance into 3D mechanics was not without its glitches, and from my last replay a couple of years ago, the 3D mechanics (or lack thereof) have not aged well. This includes a clunky, fixed camera and your character sprite "running" at the pace of a 70-year-old grandmother on her second hip-replacement. I've never been so happy to see Viki. After that, my biggest gripe is probably the 999,999 potch limit.

That being said, I still tend to think more highly of S3 than S5, because S3's cast and storytelling are just fantastic. I even began enjoying the battle system, except for that friendly fire bullshit making the game's True Rune virtually unusable (not that Hugo needs any magic to demolish everything in his path in chapters 4 and 5). My first time through, I thought the game had a very nice range of difficulty and challenge. I liked the concept of the main story boss battles that were optional to win, and Yuber was a nightmare for major battles for my first few encounters. Of course, the skill system for your main party and mounts are easily broken (as is farming Fury runes), but that's not until late game anyway. And I really liked how your characters in major battles were linked to their level/skills/equipment, which rewarded you for putting in the effort of using more people; for the life of me, I'm not sure why that concept was never utilized again.

And then there's one of the best parts of S3: the stupidly hilarious theater mini-game. You can have any of your characters star in plays such as Romeo and Juliet, as well as Suikoden-themed stories from important events in previous games. Some of the characters are great actors and others, well... not so much.

Pumpkin

09-20-2017, 12:39 PM

Suikoden III is a great game

Fynn

09-20-2017, 12:50 PM

I have the first game. Still really need to sit down and get into it.

Del Murder

09-20-2017, 06:12 PM

Suikoden is a game I wish I had played when it first came out because I probably would have liked it better. I still liked the first two (haven't played the third), and the second has one of the best stories.

Wolf Kanno

09-22-2017, 07:44 PM

27.
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I've been kind of mulling over this one lately. In hindsight, I've talked a lot about FFIV in the last ten or so years, I even wrote an article about it for this forum for the fan magazine project we helped with a few years back. Part of me even considered just copy/pasting the unedited version of that article for this piece. My other thought was that I was doing a retrospective article series a few years back and I kind of stalled on IV because I frankly found myself in a position where I had too much to say, which is why that series of articles went on indefinite hiatus. So once again, I'm here and need to to write about this game and a bit frozen in place on where I should take this entry.
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Like all of the Final Fantasy entries on this list, I'm not as inclined to really delve into "what is this entry?" like others because I know most of us are familiar with it and I'm sure some members could tell me things I didn't even know. Overall it's a bit redundant so I guess I'll simply settle with a bit of backstory about this game and my relationship with it.
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One factor I rarely divulge about my gaming habits is that I sometimes associate music or times of the year for certain games or series. Like I usually get in the mood to play DQ in the fall because I had a knack for always playing through the game around that time. For IV, I associate the game with Christmas because I finally beat it a few days before the holiday and so I associate it with the decorations and music cause that was also going on while I was playing. I also associate it with certain cheesy 90s songs as well because I played it in a time frame where I was watching MTV and VH1 pretty religiously. I even picked up a song most people would say I have no business listening to because this song was on heavy rotation at the time of me playing through IV. Anyway, tangent aside, let's discuss my history with this game.
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I had about three friends in middle school who were heavy RPG players that all kept pushing the genre on me. I resisted for as long as I could but eventually borrowed a copy of Secret of Mana and FFVI from one of my friends.Both games finally opened me up to liking the genre and soon I found myself in this annoying situation where I wanted more but being a broke middle school student without a real job my options were limited for birthday and Christmas shenanigans. I did purchase my friends copy of Secret of Mana but he refused to sell me VI and after a certain incident, wasn't as inclined to let me borrow it. So my first goal was to get my own copy of the game but it was super expensive back then and hard to find. Instead, I found Final Fantasy II (IV) which was my friends who lent me the games, favorite entry. I could afford it with my birthday cash and picked it up.
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In some ways, I lucked out. My experience with the genre had been the two games he lent me and the Battletech game I used to play on my dad's computer, so turn based combat was still a novel idea for me and I appreciate the fact that every character was unique which kept the game feeling fresh. I often blame my introduction to the genre being these three games for why I generally prefer my party to have unique skills over systems where you get to pick and choose a party of blank slates. It was ultimately what I blame for my backlash against VII's Materia system years later.
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Even though the game was lobotomized with it's translation, censorship, and Square's attempts to dumb it down for us stupid Yankees; I was able to look past all that and really get a feel for the games story and characters. I think it's a testament to this game how really memorable the cast is despite not having too much of a backstory and not having the same amount of screentime as later RPGs. I mean I love characters like Sahz, Ignis, and Balthier but I spent 50+ hours of getting to know them, but I may still rank someone like Tellah or Cecil over them because while they may not have as much time to be developed as their future descendants, the game sticks to what is important about them which leaves a more lasting impression on them. I don't remember every quip Balthier made in XII, I remember him confessing to Ashe about his past on Phon Coast and his final scenes with his father. I don't really remember much of Sahz's comic relief, I only really remember Chapter 8 and can't remember him doing anything afterwards. I can kind of remember a lot of Ignis' stuff since XV is a bit more fresh in my mind, but again, it's the major character moment that makes him memorable along with his almost always inappropriate catch phrase.
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So even despite having all this extra time to be developed, it's only the major moments that we remember, which is why IV does work because almost every character has one if not two of these types of moments. From Cecil becoming a Paladin, to Tellah's suicidal casting of Meteo, to Edge having to mercy kill his parents, to the twins noble sacrifice to save the party. IV's plot is amateurish and hilariously bad in places, but it's filled to the brim with strong moments that leave a lasting impression.
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IV is ultimately a game I've gone back and forth with in terms of why I like it. Basically, I debate with myself whether I love it purely for the nostalgia and how the game can whisk me back to my school days or whether there is something more to it and the game is actually a solid entry that can stand the test of time. Depending on when you ask me, I may give you a different answer. I would currently say that it's the latter, but modern gaming fans can easily lose sight of his accomplishment because the game lacks the bells and whistles the genre has kind of been saddled with over the years with in-depth customization systems, Action-RPG systems or elements in the game, and loads of extra mini-games and character skits to expand the time one spends with the game. In contrast, IV is much simpler and a product of a time when people didn't expect much from the genre, yet it does it's best to be as solid as it possibly can. I think it's a wonder that IV is probably the most balanced game in the series.
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theundeadhero

09-22-2017, 09:14 PM

FFIV is truly a great entry in the series. Each time I think about it and what I like, it raises a little higher in my list of Final Fantasies. It took years before I realized and could admit to myself that I like FFIV more than I like FFVI, which places it in the top three. Its most prominent appeal is that its both simple and fun to play. There's no time-consuming materia system to swap out and get just right. You don't have to spend an extra twenty hours doing ridiculous side-quests and mini-games for the best stuffs. All you have to do is just sit down and enjoy the adventure..

Wolf Kanno

09-23-2017, 09:48 AM

26.
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So I have a little bit of a confession to make with this one, while I do love the Metroidvania gameplay setup, I definitely love the -vania part of that title more than the Metroid side. Not because I have anything against Metroid, but truth be told Super Metroid was my first entry in the series and the only one I ever beat. I own the original and Metroid II but acquired them years after the fact and they are trapped in my backlog hell with another 200 games you're probably wondering why they are not on this list. I also just didn't care for the direction Prime took the series and their is enough fan backlash against Other M and most Metroid related products released since then that I haven't really paid much attention to the series. Course with all that said, we're now sitting on entry 26 of this thread and I've got Super Metroid, I guess what I'm saying is that I like Metroid, but I'm certainly just a casual fan of the series.In hindsight, I feel I liked the last two games a bit more than this one but this is still an outstanding game on the SNES and perhaps it's just been too long since I played through it.

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Set shortly after the events of Metroid II, where Samus basically went all genocide on the Metroid species, Samus handed over the last surviving member of the species to the government despite the poor thing having a childlike bond to her. Unfortunately, the facility studying the creature is attacked and Samus returns to find the Space Pirates of Zebes she vanquished in the first game have regrouped and are ready to rumble with her again over the last Metroid.
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The game has the player return to the world of the first game, and you can even revisit the original rooms where Samus defeated Mother Brain. What I find the most striking about the game is it's wonderful atmosphere. If you love the Aliens franchise, the game pulls off a similar vibe as you explore the gloomy planet and facilities while almost everything is there to kill you like. Like most Metrodvania style games, the focus is on exploring the world and acquiring power ups to expand your ability to reach previously unreachable places on the map. It's actually more fun than it sounds as you have to platform and look for better weapon upgrades to prevent you from just becoming a bloody smear on some enemies shoe. I honestly always got excited finally working my way through an area and finding a new one. The "ghost ship" being a particular favorite especially with the semi-50s era inspired robots that wandered about it.
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There is a real sense of accomplishment when find things like the grapple beam or the screw attack, especially since this genre loves to always shove out of reach stuff in front of your nose, so even backtracking isn't quite the chore you feel it would be as you try out your new abilities to see if you can uncover a secret or reach a new area. While the main enemies are not too difficult to deal with, the bosses in this game are exceptional with several memorable encounters and some real challenges to what you may feel is a tried and true strategy, like using super missiles until you fight Ridley and learn the hard way he can actually catch them and throw them back at you.
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One of the elements I really liked about the game was some of the outside of the box thinking you can do to win battles. My all time favorite being the battle in the ocean stage against the giant shrimp monster who loves to grab you and rape you. You can blow up some side vents on the walls to break open an electric current. If the boss grabs you, you can use the grappling beam to latch onto the current and roast both of you, but as long as you've been looking around for all those health power-ups, chances are, you'll have more health than the boss and outlast him which is a surprisingly satisfying feeling.
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The final confrontation is also worth mentioning, and frankly, it might be one of the best conclusions to a Nintendo game I've ever played. It's bittersweet and unexpected with a fun little god mode to play through and I feel it says a lot about the game's writing that so many emotions can be felt in a sequence where no one talks. I don't feel it's hard to see why people often feel Super Metroid is the definitive entry in the series with the exception of the Prime series. Overall, if you're looking for a sweet atmospheric sci fi thriller with an emphasis on exploration and semaless platfmoring and combat, then definitily check this game out.
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Bubba

09-23-2017, 10:15 AM

Super Metroid is a colossus of a game. So atmospheric. I struggled badly playing it though. Never got round to completing it!

Wolf Kanno

09-24-2017, 08:38 AM

25.
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So now we've reached the final PC exclusive on this list, and also one of the few titles on this list I make a point not to play very often, not because I'm over it, but because I have enough problems staying productive to not add this monstrous title into the mix.
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For those who live under a rock and don't know what Civilization is, it's a classic Turn based strategy/sim game where you choose a culture and build their society over a few millennium. You can either win the game by world domination or building a space shuttle to send people to Alpha Centauri before anyone else. I usually send the ship and then spend the remaining time playing anti-christ as I see how quickly I can decimate the entire planet with my full nuclear arsenal.
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Though there have been several sequels and spin-offs of the franchise, I've never really moved past the second installment, partly because of nostalgia, partly because playing the sequels would have involved buying them and installing them on my PC so I'm forever stuck with the temptation of playing it instead of you know... working.I know that sounds funny, but it's a real problem with this series. It may be one of the most addictive games for me on this list.

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For me personally, I usually always shoot for getting as many of the Wonders of the Worlds as they are some of my favorite sequences in the game as you get really cool videos when you acquire one. I also adore the advisors which are all hilariously played by some actors who certainly had some fun with this job. Even cooler is how they change from toga wearing Greco-Roman knockoffs to Renaissance Italians, to bad U.S. knockoffs with one French woman. Despite all of this, Luxury plays his role forever as an Elvis knockoff. Thankfully, getting luxury on your side is a simple matter of raising the luxury tax by 10% and the guy will never bother you again. I don't think I've ever seen science mad at me either. Trade on the other hand...

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I favored the English, Japanese, Russians and Babylonians in my playthroughs and I swear to god this game remembers stuff because I remember wiping the Aztecs out in one campaign and ever since, I almost always have them as an opponent and they make it a point to try and wipe me out specifically. I guess karma exists in gaming as well. Still I enjoy trying to balance out building functional cities that don't constantly rebel while also building my doomsday army to destroy my enemies. Sadly, I've never succeeded in conquering the world but I have achieved space colonization before everyone else.

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While I'm sure the later entries are superior, I still have a soft spot for the entry my dad got me into. Even now, I'm still debating about putting it back on my PC and playing a few rounds.

BiKCrDtjxdo

Next Up: You'll never see it coming...

Wolf Kanno

09-25-2017, 10:13 PM

24.
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My first of three Persona games on this list, and the most recent addition to the list as well. I've been debating with myself on how to tackle this one because it's so new and I really don't want to spoil too much for people who want to play it. P5 was definitely a critical hit for me as I've played through four fairly solid JRPGs (I am Setsuna, Final Fantasy XV, Bloodborne, and Persona 5) on my PS4 by this point and it was certainly the best contender and leaves me pretty optimistic about the genres revival for me on the new generation hardware, which is nice because I spent most of last gen muttering about how the genre seemed to be slipping away for me.
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In broad strokes, Persona 5 stars a young man who is forced to move to Tokyo and be under supervision as the last step of his parole. He got involved in an altercation in a domestic violence dispute and unfortunately, one of the party involved was a big shot adult who used his influence to set the guy up as the bad guy in the whole situation. Framed for a crime he didn't really commit, the MC has to now has to live in the attic of a coffee shop with it's eccentric owner and spend one year ins school without getting into trouble. Unfortunately for him, the school quickly discovers his bad rep as a delinquent and it's doesn't take long before your character becomes an outcast as the student body openly gossips about you and teachers are either apathetic to your plight or are actively trying to get rid of you to help keep the school's reputation from plummeting. It doesn't take long to realize the school has some serious corruption problems as teachers abuse their powers and despite the schools squeaky clean reputation on the outside, the place is filled with some dark secrets.
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The MC soon forms a bond with Ryuji, a fellow outcast with a chip on his shoulder with the schools P.E. Teacher and star employee. While walking to school one day, the MC discovers a strange app on their phone that they can't delete. When using the app, nothing seems to happen but when they try to get to school they find it's been transformed into a castle, and one of the teachers is lording over it as it's king. Completely dumbfounded by what's going on as they run into weird counterparts of their classmates and faculty and the main character awakens to his Persona in order to save his classmate. The pair encounter Morganna, a talking anthropomorphic cat and self-described "Phantom Thief" who is trying to sneak into the castle and steal the treasure of it's king in order to return to his original form. According to Morganna, the pair had somehow gotten access the collective unconscious and can see the world as other people see it, but when a person becomes corrupt in the real world, their desire warps the world around them in this mind world. Stealing their treasure, the item that is the cause of the warping will either kill them, or potentially give them a change of heart that will affect them in the real world.
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Seeing this mind world and it's correlation with the real world the pair try to fix things in the real world but events get more dramatically serious instead. They soon resolve themselves to help Morganna to steal the teacher's heart instead. From there, the Phantom Thieves begin.
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There is so much more that goes on here, but again, it's better to experience it for yourself. Persona 5 actually uses a very intriguing narrative device that really sets it apart from other entries in the series as well as delving into most serious topics concerning the abuse of power and social reform. This allows the game to tackle some heavy subject matter such as sex abuse, blackmail, suicide, hikikomori, organized crime, political scandals, and the central conflict on whether it is right to force a person who is doing wrong to do the right thing against their will. This game is easily one of the most politically charged games I've played in a long while and feels like something that as created due to real world issues like the rise in strongman politicians due to an apathetic citizenship. For a game about kids dressing up in silly costumes to go to colorful them parks versions of popular film "thief targets" like banks, tombs and luxury liners; the game is incredibly sharp on exploring these pretty mature themes. Their is a certain heaviness to the game that is not felt much in the genre which is usually fine with masquerading in make believe fluff for a thinly disguised and overused tale of self discovery, but P5 has an honest to goodness message going for it.
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Gameplay is also fantastic and easily the biggest improvement for the series. This game actually has real dungeons with real puzzles and real layouts instead of the series token copy/paste labyrinth design. They are incredibly fun and each new dungeon always offers some new element to keep them fresh from security cameras, to trip wires, to actually needing to talk to NPCs to gather clues to proceed, the level design is tightly designed and offers both a strong linear path that gradually opens into a more open dungeon design as you unlock paths to previous areas to make traversing the dungeons easier. The dungeon crawling plays up as a very stylized stealth mission as you try to avoid guards attentions and sneak up on them for preemptive strikes. Getting spotted too many times will boost the enemy awareness and aggressiveness levels. If you screw up too many times, you'll get booted from the dungeon and have to return a few days later after the Threat Level goes down.
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Combat has also been spruced up with several new options such as the ability to negotiate with demons being brought back, firearms have returned, the game adds back two elements from previous entries in Persona/Devil Summoner, critical hit abilities from Nocturne have returned, and the newest addition is the Baton Pass mechanic which brings back a level of depth and strategy to the games that have been missing for awhile. Basically if a party member unlocks this skill through their social links, when an enemy gets knocked down the player gets their second turn, or they can "pass the baton" and give their extra turn to another party member who also has the skill unlocked. This passed turn also gets a bonus to damage or healing and you can actually stack Baton Passes opening up the potential for some serious damage against enemies and bosses. Boss battles also have certain gimmicks to them that keep them feeling fresh, though if I have one gripe, they also can make some of the battles easier than they should be. They're still fun to do though and in the end, that's all that matters.
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The social side of things has also seen a few changes. One of the biggest changes is that since the game focuses on social outcasts and your character being a delinquent, you don't do the typical stuff like you would in previous titles. For instance, your school activities are restricted to just hanging out with your teammates, don't expect to be joining track team or the art club here, your character is not a model student in any way and instead you get to do things like help a washed up politician preach on the streets, go to the red light district to chat with a gonzo journalist about the Phantom Thieves, help run a plastic model gun shop that is a front for certain criminal interests and more. Your social link (now called confidants) are all people like the MC, delinquents and people who live on the fringe of society or social norms. In past titles, it has always been joked that the MC simply sees they're social links as a means to get stronger, P5 plays this incredibly straight as your social links are less about helping some poor souls struggling and instead finding assets who can help your crime spree. This is shown by how all of the social links garner bonuses for raising their ranks, something played with in P4 but brought to full fruition in P5. Even your party members will give you special bonuses aside from some cool upgrades like follow up attacks and Baton Pass, such as Yusuke fulfilling a role similar to the demon painter in P2, or the characters giving you a second chance with a negotiation that goes south. This ends up really changing the dynamic of how you approach the social links as some characters give off better bonuses than others like the one that boosts your XP or the one that helps maximize your social links faster. Two of them even give you new abilities in battle that help add even more options and tactics to your disposal. In addition to all that is the usual time wasters as well you can use to boost social stats or even major stats like HP/MP such as eating at certain places, watching movies, the battling cages, physical training, and making thief tools to use in dungeons.
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I could keep going on and on about this game, but I'll leave it here. Despite being ranked 24 on this list, I imagine it will continue to climb this ladder as times goes on. I can honestly see it actually becoming my favorite entry in the franchise with a few more playthroughs. In truth, I really needed this game. After several years of being jerked around and often disappointed by series, this game came as a reminder that sometimes it's not just empty promises. With the success and serious whoring out of P3 and especially P4 by Atlus, I was afraid the company was going down the same path as Square after FFVII and I would be stuck seeing Yu Narakami being painfully placed into everything for fan service cause he's from the big hit entry. I was worried the guys would just rest on their laurels cause I've seen too many companies do this after they get a smash hit. I was also worried because it had been eight years since the last entry and instead the company had been focusing on gimmicky spin-offs and ports that I worried this game wasn't going to hold up, especially when we've kind of been inundated with games with ridiculous development times that underwhelmed. Overall, the last ten years of the game industry has made me very cynical to the industry and the idea that everyone was the same, so it was a serious boon to find that not only did P5 stand out as a great game, but offered an uncompromising and intellectually stimulating story and message that keeps you thinking long after you see the games ending. This game pretty much represents everything I feel has been missing from the JRPG genre for nearly a decade. My one regret is the idea that we'll probably not see another game of it's caliber this generation, but this game has given me renewed hope that maybe I should lighten up and stop being so cynical about the industry as I have been. As I said, I played three pretty strong JRPGs before this one so perhaps the future will see my favorite genre turn around and become a powerhouse again.
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Coming up next: Here Comes a New Challenger!

Raistlin

09-25-2017, 11:54 PM

I can't comment on Persona 5. But I definitely played a bunch of Civ II-IV. Civ IV, to me, is the most solid all-around game of those three (albeit also the one I've played most recently), but they're all addicting time-sinks.

Scotty_ffgamer

09-27-2017, 03:49 AM

I finally as of today beat Persona 5. I do like a lot of what it did, but it's definitely the kind of game I can't play all the time. The persona games take up a ton of time and have some poor pacing that has me getting bored and ready to play something else relatively frequently. Despite all of that, I really enjoy the series, and this rpg has helped keep the genre alive for me in the current generation.

Fynn

09-27-2017, 09:47 AM

Well, I guess I saw that coming!

Wolf Kanno

09-27-2017, 08:25 PM

23.
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So we've now come ton one of my favorite fighting games of all time, one of the more underrated spin-off series of the Street Fighter franchise besides Pocket Fighter, and a series that is filled with some awesome call backs to the first Street Fighter and Final Fight Series. While most of the images come from SFA3, which is my favorite version from a gameplay standpoint, I'll likely be talking about the series in general terms though I'm probably not going to bore you with the features from the Anthology version which mixed in some elements from SFIII.
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Street Fighter Alpha (Zero in Japan) takes place between the original SF and SFII, and it was heavily influenced by the Street Fighter II: The Animated Movie which is easily the best SF movie in terms of having a decent plot, respect for the source material, and actually giving characters not named Ryu some time to actually shine. Stages in this series are based on places from the film like the grassy field in a lightning storm where Ryu fought Sagat in the film's opening as well as M. Bison's Shadowloo Jet that he battled Ken Masters. You could even unlock a mode where you could double team M.Bison with Ryu and Ken just like the film. This feature ended up getting extended in later versions with more freedom to use different team combinations.
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What's really cool is that the game's roster is filled with upgrades on forgotten fighters from SF like Adon, Birdie, and my main man Gen but also brought in a slew of characters from the Final Fight series like Cody, Guy, and bosses Sodom and Rolento; which was a huge shout out for a guy who grew up in the arcade scene and knew that series pretty well. Shame Hagar never made his fighting game debut until MvC3. Yet it's not just people from the three core games of SF1, SF2 and Final Fight, new original characters were also introduced such as the iconic Dan Hibiki and Sakura, as well as anti-Shoto scrub Rose and haughty Sakura rival Karin. Hell the game expanded Cammy's backstory and gave her her own collection of clones to make shoto-clone players like myself feel a bit happier. SFA2 had a really solid roster but then SFA3 and SFA3Max decided to throw players a bone and release the whole cast of Super Street Fight II into the mix to add a tone of variety and even a few new people in the PSP version. Overall, I feel the new characters and the redo of older and forgotten characters worked really well for this game especially in comparison to new characters added in games like SFIV and V who just don't stand out to me as well as the quirky cast of SFAlpha. Course the fun character intros and gorgeous 2D artwork probably helps.
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In terms of gameplay, SFAlpha introduces a lot of features to the franchise. The game basically works off the DarkStalkers engine and gameplay style but got modified as the series went along. Air Blocks, Alpha counters, chain combos, and three levels of super gauge added a lot of depth to the tried and true SF Formula. The sequel added custom combos and the final game added the ability to choose an -iISM for the character which modified their super gauge options and even their character stats but offered a tone of replayability. With -ISM, you could do X-ISM which gave your character better attack power at the cost of lower defense and being restricted to one predetermined super move with only one bar creating a high risk high reward set-up. A-ISM was balanced and similar to previous titles normal play as you got three supers which cost different bar health and the character had balanced stats. V-ISM lowered a characters attack in exchange for higher defense and the super moves are removed and exchanged for custom combos from the second installment.
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The third entry also introduced a World Tour mode where you would have to perform challenges like beating an opponent with a 10-hit V-ISM custom combo or only use throws. What's really interesting about this mode is that it had RPG elements where beating challenges would reward special bonuses that could be equipped to your character to give them new advantages and customize their play style even further, you could even transfer this character into arcade or versus mode if you wanted. Beating World Tour mode under certain restrictions gave you the chance to fight and unlock Evil Ryu and then going through it again with Evil Ryu and completing the same requirement got you a chance to face and unlock Shin Akuma. Between those two and Boss Mode M. Bison in this game, SF Alpha has some of the most challenging bosses in the series that don't completely rely on cheap tactics like some other bosses I can think of.
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In many ways, SFAlpha represents my favorite era of Capcom's fighters as series like Darkstalkers, Pocket Fighter, and the early iterations of the Capcom Vs franchises were dominating the arcade scene and for a guy who grew up on the SF franchise, it was a sweet dream. The games all offered enough new elements and changes that I was never able to be bewitched and move onto 3D Fighters like Tekken or Soul Calibur which were starting to make most gamers move away from Capcom and SNK's more frenetic and gorgeously animated 2D fighters. Behind SFIITurbo, this is the series I played the most of in my fighting retinue and while I had some stints with Guilty Gear and SFIII, neither could really pull me away from my favorite iteration of one of my favorite fighting game series.
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Coming up next: A NEW GENERATION OF ROBOTS WHICH CONTAIN AN INNOVATIVE NEW FEATURE - THE ABILITY TO THINK, FEEL AND MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS...

Edge7

09-27-2017, 09:59 PM

Man, of course you'd like Gen. He's also one of my favorite characters!

Wolf Kanno

09-30-2017, 03:39 AM

22.

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The Capcom love continues. Mega Man X is a wonderful example of how to revamp an old formula while not throwing out everything people liked. Truth be told, I love the MMX series more than the main series overall if I was simply comparing the whole franchises to each other. I've only ever beaten three MM entries legitimately whereas X3 and the two X-Treme entries are the only MMX games I have not completed. It's a damn solid series overall and brought a lot of fresh ideas and a change of setting to make it stand apart from the other spin-offs and sequels in the Mega Man franchise.

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Set a century or two after the final events of Mega Man, whenever that was going to be, an archeologist named Dr. Cain uncovers an old lab belonging to the famous Dr. Light which contains Dr. Lights final magnum opus, X. X is the first robot built with free will, but fearing the possibility X could turn evil, Dr. Light had him sealed away and tested internally to make sure that X was endowed with a strong moral code that would prevent him from starting a robot uprising. He passed of course cause Dr. Light couldn't build an evil robot if his life depended on it. X's advancements were so great that Dr. Cain, foolishly reverse engineered his design to build a new series of sentient robots called Reploids with the help of X. Unfortunately, Dr. Cain failed to understand why Dr. Light had X sealed away and it didn't take long before Reploids starting rebelling against humanity. These rogue Reploids called Mavericks, saw the rise in the Maverick Hunters, a special Reploid Police force that neutralized Mavericks for the sake of humanity and non-Maverick Reploids. They were led by Sigma, Dr. Cain's most advanced creation and a very powerful and charismatic figure in the world. Then the worse case scenario happened, Sigma decided that the Mavericks had it right all along, humanity was not worth saving and had simply been holding back the Reploids as a subservient species. Declaring a revolution, Sigma defected from the Maverick Hunters along with several of his loyal comrades and formed an army to destroy humanity and us=her in a new age for machines. Feeling partly responsible for the rebellion, X volunteers to help Zero, the new leader of the MH, to stop Sigma, but can an "inferior" robot from the distant past stand a chance against this new menace?... Well yes, cause Dr. Light was a genius and the series pretty much establishes pretty quickly that despite being the oldest robot in the series, X is the most advanced.

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Core gameplay remains the same with X having to choose to battle eight Maverick Leaders before getting a shot at the big bosses stronghold. New to the formula is the introduction of a prologue stage used to teach the player several of the new mechanics this series introduces. If you want a real cool breakdown of how well thought out the level design for this stage was, you should check out Egoraptor's Sequelitis entry on MMX (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM). One of the biggest new features for the game is X's ability to now cling and slowly slide down walls which he can also kickoff of to reach higher elevation. This not only limits the frustration of of instant kill pits the series is notorious for, but it also allows the designers to expand the level design to incorporate this feature as you may find your self in a dead end only to discover you either needed to climb some walls to reach the next area or more subversively, that bottomless pit you passed two screens ago is actually an entrance way. X also doesn't begin the game with full health anymore, instead the series incorporate a Super Metroid mechanic where you need to find life containers to effectively increase X's life bar to full, which is a actually a pretty interesting design because it makes the early sections much more challenging than they normally would be, which is nice because X is also a bit better about designing the bosses in such a way that you can beat them with your normal weapon if you're skilled enough. No more Crash Man incidents where trying to fight him without the weapon he's weak to or four E-Tanks is a death wish. That is not to say the game isn't challenging, the game drops the one time E-Tanks for four permanent ones that simply need to be refilled if you use them which makes going after power-ups even after getting full health more useful. One of the most iconic changes is the introduction of X's Advanced Armor. Scattered through the levels are old capsule pods with an A.I. Dr. Light Hologram ho has sealed away various armor pieces for X to help given him some improvements to help fight the badguys. The actual main armor piece halves damage, the boots give you the dash move which replaces Mega Man's slide move from the main games, the gun gives you a third tier charged shot and the ability to charge sub-weapons, and the helmet... well it kind of sucks in this game but later installments give it some oomph.

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Combining these elements with MMX retaining the modern (at it's time of release) ability from the MM series to go back to levels to pick up items you missed ends up giving this game a pretty open structure for advancing. There are upgrades you may not be able to reach until you find a certain other upgrade first, so the game kind of has an odd metroidvania feel to it despite having typical tight level design. One of the coolest features I loved in MMX and I am still flabbergasted as to why it never became a standard feature for the series is that defeating certain bosses before you should, can sometimes lead to major changes in another bosses stage. This is because the game makes it a point to say that the stages are interconnected as part of Siga's war machine which I thought was a cool way to tie in a neat gameplay feature to the story. So the one most people will see first is that by beating Chill Penguins stage first, it will lead to Flame Mammoth's stage being frozen over and thus you can avoid a lot of instant kill lava and frustration this way. It also gives you access to places you normally couldn't reach due to elemental hazards. Several stages have some interesting effects like this and it only adds to the game's interesting replay value of the stages to find the power-ups. The game also brought in the series trademark secret. In the first game, by fulfilling some requirement you can unlock the ability to let X use Ryu's Hadoken move from Street Fighter by actually performing the Hadoken move. This move was even an instant kill move though it can't be performed in the air. Another feature I love that was sadly phased out as the series went along was the introduction of power armors you could pilot in stages, which were similar to vehicles you could pilot in games like Contra or Metal Slug.

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Structurally, X was a real cool advancement on the Mega Man formula which was growing pretty stale at the time. Course the thing that kept me coming back to the series, and a lot of others as well was the game's more mature story. MMX is not the light-hearted Astro Boy knockoff that is the main Mega Man series which was always kind of tongue in cheek about the Blue Bombers relationship with Wily. It's a pretty grim series that only got darker and more desperate as the series progressed as you should all know after reading the MMX4 entry on this list, but it all started here. The intro stage has you battle it out with a ruthless ex-Maverick Hunter named Vile who totally thrashes you and you have to be saved by Zero. In the first stage of Sigma's fortress you infiltrate it with Zero who goes on ahead but he ends being taken down by Vile as well and you now get to rescue him but even with all your upgrades the battle is still against you and the whole sequence gets resolved with a heroic sacrifice on Zero's part and X, in a moment of righteous rage, laying the smackdown on Vile and this sequences was awesome. Even Sigma's battle is interesting as he mocks you ancient hardware and waxes on about the superiority of Reploids over humanity. Unlike Saturday Morning cartoon villain Wily, Sigma comes across like Magneto, though in the early years where he was still very much a bad guy, and so you kind of can't fault him for his beliefs and his idea that what he's doing is right for Reploids, something that becomes more poignant as the series went on and especially cuts you to the core when you reach MMZero series and Sigma's worst fears come true. Despite how little story there is within the game, MMX presents itself as a darker interpretation of the MM franchise and borrows a bit from anime and Terminator 2 to present a more complex scenario where the villains may not be real villains and your own actions are debatable. A lot of this is poignantly made by the fact that X himself is described as pacifistic, and his adventures through the series begin to take a serious toil on him consciously and this works better with this moral grey area the game's scenario presents.

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Overall, MMX is one of the highlights of the SNES and the beginning of one of my favorite franchises from Capcom. While only two entries made it onto this list, I honestly love most of the series with the exception of X7. Hell Command Missions is a super underrated JRPG for the PS2 and X8 was surprisingly good for a game made after the franchise killing X7. So if you want a cool action platform game series with some great characters, good level design, catchy music, and fun gameplay, I would recommend not only MMX, but the whole series.
7-lgTS_BZPs

Coming Up next: The dreams I've abandoned couldn't have come true, I have other dreams I haven't given up on. They still shine bright, they still light my way...

Pumpkin

09-30-2017, 04:42 PM

Oh look its Rockman

Wolf Kanno

09-30-2017, 08:37 PM

21.
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Now for my all time favorite Rhythm Game. A game that combines interesting and challenging gameplay with quirky Japanese sensibilities, and of course a rocking soundtrack. While I had heard of the game before through gaming mags, it wasn't until I saw someone playing a demo of it at an EB Games that I decided I was interested enough to check it out. After EB and Gamestop merged and they put up for sale a crap tone of rare games for some of their systems at a few locations, I was able to get my hands on it and it's been one of the coolest purchases I've made.
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Gitaroo Man is the story of this is a visual pun that the translators totally missed because his name would be pronounced Yuichi in Japanese which is a fairly common name over there, in the English version it's pronounced as you would expect. a klutzy and hapless kid who has a mad crush on a girl in his school but can't stand out to the snobby rich kid that occupies her time. U-1 takes advice from his talking dog Puma to learn guitar while also revealing that U-1 and Puma are actually aliens from the Planet Gitaroo and in possession of the last Gitaroo an artifact the evil Gravellion Prince Zowie is trying to acquire in order to combine it with the six he already own to gain ultimate power and conquer the universe. He sends assassins to battle U-1 for his Gitaroo but when he wields the Gitaroo, he transforms into the more confidant Gitaroo and battles them out in epic music duels which jump from rock, to reggae, to J-Pop, and classic guitar. Eventually U-1 is transported to his home world and battles Zowie for control of the universe. So yeah it's pretty weird and Japanese, especially the fun characters sent to take you down like a disco afro guy in a giant bee costume, a UFO who uses Dance Until You Die Rays on people, an operatic rock god, and some animated xylophone playing skeletons.
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Gameplay is a bit harder to explain, the game is actually a series of musical duels a la dueling banjo style where you have to counter your opponents style. Battles have three stages interspersed with Attack and Guard Phases. Attack Phase has the player follow a track line with the analog stick while hitting the play button to sync with the tracks on the line. In Guard Phase, various button prompts based on the four main buttons of the controller move towards the center and you have to time the presses as they hit the center to avoid damage. In the first Stage, known as Charge Stage, you have to correctly sync your guitar to the track line in order to fill up your health bar which always starts very low and hopefully move it to full before the second stage, battle mode presumes. Battle Stage is pretty straightforward as you alternate between Attack and Guard phases trying to whittle down your opponents health while avoiding your enemies attempts to do the same. The music actually has a lot of variation in the middle section and it's really difficult to hear every variation this middle section has. Depending on who is able to get the enemy into critical mode first, you jump to the final End phase if you win the tug of war in which you play a final piece to finish off the opponent with a bang.
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The gameplay is surprisingly challenging, but very rewarding, with great stages and tracks interspersed with a pretty comical and nonsensical story-line about the power of believing in yourself, destiny, the power of music, and just plain weirdness. If you wanted to play a game that made you feel like a guitar god but never wanted to shelve out the extra cash for Guitar Hero and it's other contemporaries, or spend the time actually learning guitar; this is the game for you. This is a game I used to play a lot around family and I ended up getting pretty good with some stages because certain family members liked the music and asked me to play those stages repeatably. There is a Master Mode you can unlock by beating the game which is pretty difficult. Getting high scores also allow you to unlock entries in the character bio sections so you can learn more about the game's wacky cast of eccentrics. There is a also a two-player versus mode, but I've never had anyone to play it with me. The game also got a slightly enhanced port for the PSP but like the original, there were not a whole lot of copies and it became obscure pretty quick, though I think it may have finally been released on PSN.
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It's a quirky and fun musical game with an interesting gameplay set-up and some awesome music, and it's hard for me to find some kind of fault in it. If you ever get a chance and want to check out a Rhythm Game that doesn't require some odd peripheral or physicality, this is a great game to start. My one regret is that I can't find a copy of the soundtrack.

YxMVj56L8zA

Coming Up: "Shadow and light are two sides of the same coin… One cannot exist without the other."

Raistlin

10-01-2017, 05:38 PM

Mega Man X is a great game, and your list is making me nostalgic to play some Mega Man. Of course, the MMX series always reminds me of Tycho's strange ignorance of its entire existence (https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/02/24/our-secret-world).

Fynn

10-02-2017, 08:14 AM

GitarooMan looks great and I can't believe I've never heard of it and I really need to try it now or I'll die

Del Murder

10-02-2017, 06:06 PM

Very impressive that a recent game like P5 cracks your top 25. I really need to play that one.

Wolf Kanno

10-02-2017, 08:09 PM

20.
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Nintendo is a company that I grew up with, and while I feel I've either outgrown or have simply lost interest in many of the games they produce, the one series that has always kept me coming back to them is the Zelda franchise. I love this franchise and even in the times I didn't own a Nintendo system to play them, I always kept tabs on Nintendo's newest iterations. Even, now, I may end up picking up a Wii U just because of all of the Zelda love the console got with the two HD Remasters and Breath of the Wild. As it stands, This is easily my favorite 3D entry in the series.
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Set several centuries after the events of Majora's Mask in the Childhood Timeline, Link is a ranch hand who lives outside of the village or Ordon. He is well liked by the adults for his dependability, looked up to by the village children who are always up to something to alleviate the boredom of simple country living, and has caught the eye of the mayor's daughter who takes care of Epona. Link was getting ready to help with a traditional tribute to the Hyrule royalty when the village is attacked by Bulbins who proceed to kidnap the children and the mayor's daughter. With the town warrior injured in the attack, Link takes what weapons he can to go after the kids, but his journey is cut short when the world around him is twisted into twilight and Link is transformed into a wolf and imprisoned by Shadow creatures. Waking up in Hyrule Castle, Link meets a strange and mischievous imp called Midna who promises to help Link escape if he'll help her complete a certain task, with no choice the two join forces and meet with Princess Zelda, imprisoned in the castle who explains that Hyrule has been invaded by a wicked sorcerer from the Twilight Realm known as Zant. Turning out to be a common foe with Midna, Link and her restore his form and the parts of Hyrule engulfed by the Twilight Realm as they seek the pieces of the Fused Shadow, an ancient and powerful artifact that was created by the Twilight Realm to conquer it. Of course the game falls into typical Zelda shenanigans and a certain badass ginger with a penchant for pigs turns out to be behind everything but I digress, the story of Twilight Princess is actually one of my favorites.
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Gameplay is typical of the series, specifically Ocarina of Time but with several of the technical fixes brought in by Wind Waker like a refined Z-Targeting and more advanced sword play options. Where this might get interesting for some of you is that the version I own and have the most familiarity with is the Wii version which "flipped" the world to accommodate the usually left handed Link for righties like myself. This also means I played with the ham-fisted tacked on motion controls, but I'm here to say that I feel the complaints against them are largely over-exaggerated and because Nintendo wisely chose a No More Heroes "less is more" approach to the controls, I honestly feel they work really well with the game. In fact, I feel TP gave me what I wanted with motion controls far more than Skyward Sword which I felt hurt itself overall by making them too much of a focus for the game. It was actually hard for me to jump back to some of the older 3D Zelda games where I had to wrestle with analog sticks and shoulder buttons to use the hookshot and bow after playing the smoother interface of point and click. The fishing mini-game was a hoot as well thanks to the physicality of the controls. Of anything, I feel only the advanced sword skills really suffered from the Wii's sometimes spotty controls, but since there are only like three enemies that require you to know those skills to beat, it wasn't really all that much of a deal breaker.
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Moving back to core design, I feel this game's biggest strength may actually be it's dungeon and boss designs. When I honestly think about my favorite dungeons in the series, I find myself picking a majority of them from this game. Even incredibly gimmicky dungeons like the Arbiter's Tomb, the Yeti Mansion, and the Temple of Time are simply just fantastically done and make good use of their respective tools that you almost wish the game did a better job incorporating those tools in later places. I love how the Goron Mines changes the way you approach the Iron Boots with the magnets and sumo wrestling, I love the story element of finding ingredients for pumpkin soup for the yeti in his mansion, I enjoyed going all Spider-man in the Sky Fortress with double hookshots cause hell yeah. The bosses are also incredibly fun even if they suffer from the usual Zelda issue of being trivial once you figure out how to use the dungeon item on them. Still, the devs were trying to be novel like the boss of the Goron mines where you used the Bow to blind him but then had to grab the chains around his legs and wrap them around while using the iron boots to keep you place to force him to fall so you can finally reach his weak point. I mean damn, that's pretty intricate for a boss. Also, if you're going to steal boss fighting concepts from other games, Shadow of the Colossus is not a bad choice to be stealing notes from, and I loved the larger than life bosses you had to literally hook onto to as they took you for a ride like the bosses of the water temple and sky fortress.
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The other element I love about this game is honestly some of the more cinematic elements with the gameplay. Jousting with King Bublin on the broken Hyrule bridges, the wonderful spaghetti western segment in Impa's secret home, and of course storming Hyrule Castle in the game's ending, which is still my favorite final dungeon in the series. Course it's hard not to talk about TP and not bring up Midna, who is easily one of the best characters to come out of the Zelda franchise. What I feel works best about her is how different she is with Link which makes their relationship stand out more than lazy comic relief Linebeck, nagging Fi and Navi, or serious King Hyrule. She's fun in a mischievous way and her character growth throughout the game is really well done, in fact, it's probably safe to say that TP is more her story than Link's but I feel this is actually a good way to do it since Link easily fits into the Mad Max type role in the series. I must also commend this game for handling Ganondorf, who becomes such a major badass in this title that he became legitimately scary to go up against. I love the scene of his botched execution and the fact he uses the same sword as his own.
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Overall, I feel Nintendo hit it out of the park with this one, despite the devs not feeling the same way. While the game does have it's fair share of story issues (how did Ganondorf get the Triforce of Power again?) and some less stellar gameplay points (an escort mission on horseback?! Didn't you learn your lesson in Majora's Mask?) I feel the game is actually pretty solid and what few gripes I can really nail it with are either things past games have been doing for awhile or more often than not, Skyward Sword did it worst. It's still one of my favorite Zelda titles and easily my favorite Wii title despite originally being for the Gamecube.
kAwwQ7dTjRY
Coming up: Hey get over here! HEY! I said get over... no put the damn bird down. You know what, you guys can have her.

Wolf Kanno

10-03-2017, 04:53 AM

19.
74448

This was the game that was meant to come on earlier until I came to my senses, and decided to replay it real quick to remind myself why it was so special. The game that put Team Ico on the map and one of the best arguments for "Game as Art" arguments. Ico is a minimalist experience that takes one of the most dreaded gameplay ideas, the escort mission, and builds a powerful title around it.
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Ico begins with the main character, a boy born with horns, being transported to a mysterious and mostly abandoned castle by some men who chain him in a jar and leave him there to die as some kind of sacrifice or punishment. The boy is able to escape and comes across a mysterious girl named Yorda in a bird cage, and he frees her so they can escape the castle together. Yorda is weak and can't really move around like the boy but she has a mysterious power to open special doors the boy can't get past. As they search for an exit, mysterious shadow creatures appear and try to kidnap Yorda and the boy must protect her from them and their evil Queen who has an intimate connection to Yorda.
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The gameplay is a puzzle platformer where you must have the boy figure out a way to transport Yorda from point A to point B in the castle as you both make your way to the exit. The puzzles are often not noticeable and are well disguised as simple natural barriers. At certain points in the game or if the boy stays too long away from Yorda, Shadow creatures appear and will kidnap the girl, forcing you to fight them off. They can't kill you unless they knock you off a high ledge but failing to rescue Yorda also spells your demise. Controls are incredible simple as you fight with one weapon hold Yorda's hand to guide her, use another jump and climb, and you can call Yorda to places or to make jumps for your character. It's not terrible complicated, though I will say the controls are a bit rough around the edges in terms of platform controls compared to say Mario or other dedicated platform dynasties in gaming.
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What is really striking about the game is the minimalist design around it and the natural environments style of the puzzles. Sometimes the biggest challenge is just trying to figure out what you need to do as you waltz into a what looks like a fairly normal room with no obvious way to reach the door on the other side of the chasm. This organic puzzle solving element of the game is both a real sense of accomplishment and frustration, depending on how well you critical think and process the information the game does give you. On the other hand,. it can be frustrating, especially on a first playthrough and some platform sequences can be filled with red herrings as the level layout can be filled with climbable ledges but only one that will not lead you to certain death. If you're playing any version other than the original North American version for the PS2, you will be grateful to know that Yorda's A.I. is vastly improved and she's even been programmed to give you hints to what you need to do sometimes.
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Of course it's the minimalist design I adore the most. The game cuts away extraneous elements to make a gripping story and fun gameplay. The game is fundamentally simple but powerful none the less and I feel it's a cleansing experience to play something that reduces the player expectations of empowerment and Hollywood spectacle to play something so unapologetic and just presents the core of why we game. To be enchanted by a fictional world and it's characters, to conquer a great challenge, and to have fun exploring and playing in a digital playground. It doesn't have to be all super powers, love stories, and explosions. This game represents games in it's truest and purest form without the excess that other game companies have overindulged us on.

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Team Ico understood that the basis of human understanding is not language, which differs among cultures and despite our best efforts to bypass cultural and social boundaries, still leaves us with some level of misunderstanding. No it's body language that is the universal language and that's what Ico is all about. You can't understand Yorda, hell without the subtitles, you wouldn't be able to understand anyone, but the real message is conveyed by the boy waving to Yorda to come to her, Yorda gasping and running to Ico when he stumbles from a fall or gets knocked down by an enemy. The game saves by having the two simply resting on stone couches of which Ico has to gesture with his hand to make her understand what he wants. I really love this element of the game and how you do watch the two subtly grow closer together as you the player o as well.
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While several games have used body language to convey messages before in game, Ico is one of the rare few that makes it the only form of real communication, and I think that's special. Hell the game's "story" if you wish to call it is told only through actions and is filled with mysteries that it doesn't bother to answer but leave to the player. Are the shadows the spirits of other horned boys that have been sacrificed? Who is the queen and how did she acquire Yorda for her plan? Is the castle her home or a container for the shadows? Why was Ico born with horns and what is there real connection to the shadow queen? Who made the special swords that have Yorda's power? None of this gets answered and Fumito has said there is no canon answer, it's up to us the player to decide and that's some pretty powerful stuff to be coming out of a medium that sometimes unadvisedly spends too much time trying to overload the player with information relevant to their worlds and characters.
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This is a large part of what I love about the game is that I often feel your enjoyment is based on what you bring to it. The story is as compelling or boring as the limits of your imagination and the puzzles are clever and really fill you with a sense of accomplishment once you solve them. I love a game that makes the player get more involved in both the story and gameplay. This is an art game, and one I feel most gamers owe it to themselves to play through it at least once. Even if you don't wind up liking it, I feel like it's the type of game that everyone can take something from it.For me, it's the game that makes me believe in gaming as an art form and reminds me why I spend so much time thinking about games to begin with.

ZRyEWpXE9_k
Coming Up: What is a man? A miserable pile of secrets!

Scotty_ffgamer

10-03-2017, 05:10 AM

Ico is so good.

Fynn

10-03-2017, 05:42 AM

Great to see Twilight Princess get some much deserved love!

And I still need to get to Ico one day

Pumpkin

10-03-2017, 09:42 PM

I hated Ico so much xD

Wolf Kanno

10-03-2017, 09:50 PM

18.
74465

Oh man, we've come to my first love of the Castlevania franchise. While I've dabbled with the series before this one, SotN is the game that really converted me to the franchise and the Metroidvania style of gameplay the series adapted over time. It also established Richter as my favorite Belmont and like a lot of game franchises transitioning from the 16-bit era to this new one, Castlevania toys with transforming a traditionally evil villain into a more sympathetic character.
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The game opens in 1792 with the end sequence of Rondo of Blood, now altered to reflect the more literary gothic take on the franchise as we watch Richter and Dracula battle it out both ideologically and physically. With Dracula slain and Richter proclaimed as the strongest Belmont to ever live, Castlevania disappeared for it's hundred year sleep. Except it doesn't, the castle reemerges only four years later and Richter is nowhere to be seen. Dracula's estranged son Alucard, wakes from his sleep 300 year nap since Castlevania III and discovers the castle has reappeared earlier than expected. He storms the castle to face the lord of the manor but is intercepted and stripped of his powerful gear and powers by Dracula's servant Death. Alucard slowly traverses the castle and meets with several employees of his father and even a teenage Maria from Rondo of Blood. The truth about the castles reappearance and the past Alucard soon overtake Alucard's simple battle with his father and has more to do with the events from four years ago that one might imagine.
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There is a bit more to the story but I won't spoil it. Of anything, I feel it's one of the major testaments to the game is that it incorporates more of a plot and several other RPG elements that made this game standout. Unlike the Belmont clan, who are stuck with a whip and the various sub-weapons, Alucard can equip various pieces of armor and weapons he either finds, takes from enemies, or purchases from the Librarian. The weapons offer several different variations of playstyle which helps to break up the usual monotony these types of games would induce. Other new features is how Alucard's basic vampire transformations are utilized to expand the scope of your exploration. Small passages that mist is need or massive chasms where turning into a bat would be more useful. Another new and unique feature for Alucard is the familiar system, where Alucard can summon a companion to help in battle. The Fairy will use items on Alucard to restore his status, the bat will fire fireballs, the demon imp can hit switches, the floating skull will use sol suck on enemies to hurt them and restore some of Alucard's health, and the sentient sword murders everything. It's a neat mechanic used to help get deeper into the castle while also adding more variety to Alucard's arsenal. Of anything, I think the reason why this game stands out more than it's successors is simply the sheer variety of content the game hands you. It was years after I beat the game I even learned about the Shield Rods special ability which adds a whole new layer of depth to the game and changes how you look at the various shields you can collect. The game is filled with secrets, the most infamous being the reverse castle.
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If you lay the game straight through with minimal exploration and not really using all the tools handed to you including the one that feel useless, you'll get the game's bad ending where you destroy the castle but are left with a tone of questions. By utilizing a specific item in the final boss fight, you can uncover the real culprit of the plot and open a way to a reverse castle that is the second half of the game with more bosses and gear and the contractually obligated showdown with Dracula. It was pretty mind blowing in 1997, and I'm both happy and sad that the later spiritual successors were smart enough not to steal the idea, but a little sad that many of them fail to hit you with such a cool secret as that one.
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Other features I love is the secret modes, not only can you unlock a badass version of Richter to play through the game with that will make you wish he was this mobile and versatile in Rondo of Blood but you can even get joke characters like the Axe Armor and there is a mode that starts you off with ridiculously low stats with the exception of an extremely high luck stat that makes the monster drop rate manageable. These modes offer new challenges and more longevity to a game that is honestly just staggering. Super Metroid may have advanced the formula, but I feel SotN set the gold standard of what to expect, and while it's successors are still fun romps in their own right, none of them really hit that level of depth in both story and gameplay that I felt this game does.
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I think the other reason why this game is so close to my heart is that it's the closest thing to a good Vampire Hunter D title that I'll ever play unless the franchise somehow becomes super popular in Japan again and an actual good company makes a game for it. I own the PS1 title, and combining swordplay action with clunky tank controls is a bad mix, Onimusha notwithstanding. Anyone familiar with the films, or better yet, the novels will see how much they heavily influenced Igarashi's take on the franchise and I am not complaining because I'm a big fan of the franchise and wish we could see more.
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Overall, Symphony of the Night is easily one of my top ten favorite games for the PlayStation and easily my favorite entries in the Castlevania series. I'm looking forward to see if Bloodstained will measure up, but I may spend more time catching up on a few more of the Igarashi era titles in the meantime.
mG6-3Dthsy0
Coming up: In my restless dreams, I see that town...

Scotty_ffgamer

10-03-2017, 10:28 PM

Symphony of the Night is so good. I’ve been itching to play it again. I’m hoping Bloodstained can be of similar quality whenever it comes out.

I miss those days of Konami. Castlevania, silent hill, and metal gear are some of my favorite series.

Del Murder

10-03-2017, 11:17 PM

SotN is fantastic. Hard for me to determine whether that or Super Metroid is best in that category.

Scotty_ffgamer

10-04-2017, 01:22 AM

I feel like the setting of castlevania will make it the more fun game for me, but I am going to be playing super Metroid for the first time soon. I’d really like to play more stuff in the metroidvania style.

maybee

10-04-2017, 03:41 AM

WHAT IS A MAN ? A MISERABLE PILE OF SECRETS.

Slothy

10-04-2017, 12:25 PM

I hated Ico so much xD

Why are we friends?! :stare:

Bubba

10-04-2017, 02:58 PM

Man, I've missed some good ones! I need to catch up with this now...

Wolf Kanno

10-04-2017, 07:01 PM

17.
74480

While this list has had very few survival horror titles on it, I'm happy such a gem of a game ended up staying with me for so long after I finished it, which is how I feel a real good game should be. SH2 is the only Silent Hill I've finished, not that I dislike the others, I just haven't had the time to really delve into the other entries like I was able to with this game. Overall, this might be the oddest title to make it to this list and reach so far, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
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Silent Hill 2 is the story of James Sunderland, a grief-stricken widower still mourning the death of his wife Mary from a terminal illness two years ago. His world is turned upside down when he receives a letter from her in the mail that was sent recently, telling him to meet her at Silent Hill where they spent their honeymoon. Emotionally distraught and with nothing else to live for, James comes to Silent Hill which is overrun with a mysterious fog, the townsfolk have mostly disappeared except for a few weirdos, and the town is infested with horrible flesh monsters from your worst nightmares, including a violent and grim stalker called Pyramid Head. James encounters several people including: Angela, a broken girl looking for her mother; Eddie, a deranged and self conscious man; Laura, a bratty little girl with a connection to Mary; and Maria, a local stripper who bears a striking resemblance to Mary. James journey through Silent Hill to discover the truth about the letter he received will lead him on a dark journey of discovery and psychological horror that will stay with you for quite awhile.
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While SH2 is a sequel to the first game, with the exception of the setting and the fact the monsters are based on the psychological manifestations of the key story character, the game has little story connection to the first game which revolved around a doomsday cult trying to perform some unholy spell to summon their god. SH2 was smart enough to kind of drop that whole premise and instead focus on a more personal story that ultimately leaves you the player wondering if Silent Hill is some kind of eldritch location that manifests your worst fears, or if the whole scenario is simply the result of James' own mental breakdown from his grief. The game actually has a more sly hint that the "monsters" James encounters are not actually monsters but possibly people. It's easy to miss but I liked the idea. Overall, SH2 isn't exactly a "scary" game but it's a very mind twisting one as you deal with the unreliable narrator of James and delve into the psychosis of the games unhinged cast. It's amazing how many interpretations the plot has gotten from fans over the years and I feel this is why SH2 is often considered to be the best entry because it's never straightforward like the other entries. The game has multiple endings and none of them give a clear answer to anything and it's debatable whether you can consider any of them as "good" but instead left to the player's decision. I got the "In Water" ending at first, and frankly, I find it to be the most satisfying for myself but other fans I've spoken to consider some of the other endings to be the "right one". I honestly appreciate this level of discourse the game brings up. Hell even Pyramid Heads role is often debated by fans, with some feeling he's Silent Hills knockoff of Resident Evils Tyrant who stalks James throughout the game to murder him, whereas other players feel Pyramid Head may actually be a guiding figure trying to set James on the "correct path" whereas another character is the one misleading James.
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SH has taken cues from several movies and stories over the years, and one in particular that SH2 borrows from is a film called Jacob's Ladder. It's the story of an ex-Vietnam vet struggling to cope with the grief of his son's death and the eventual dissolution of his marriage while also the PTSD he obtained in the war. He starts being plagued by visions of monsters and hallucinates disturbing scenes. The film offers two explanations for his problems and leaves it up to the audience to come to their own choice of what it is. Fun fact, James' outfit in SH2 is modeled directly after one worn by the main character in this film. Another film associated with this game is Solaris, a psychological sci-fi story by Polish author Stanislaw Lem about a psychologist investigating a space station studying a strange planet that might have life on it, only to discover that the whole crew is being haunted by apparitions that take the form of love ones or people they knew, in the case of the main character, his dead wife. As a it of a film buff, these parallels and shout outs to great cinema is much appreciated, and you can tell Team Silent drew upon these inspirations to help craft the games intriguing cast of characters. James is a broken and unassertive every man, hardly heroic and sometimes selfish or at least insensitive to the plight of others. Not someone to look up to, but also deeply sympathetic. The other cast members also become more nuanced as you slowly unravel their stories and personal demons. The lone exception being Laura, who is pretty much just a bratty little girl from beginning to end.
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Okay, so let's talk about the big pink elephant in the room here. I have spent a lot of time talking about the story and characters but not a whole lot on the gameplay. Well remember when I mentioned this game was an oddity on this list? Well it's because I don't really care for the gameplay, which may be a large part of why I get so easily distracted with the other entries because they take longer to get me invested in the story so I'll suffer through the games asinine puzzles, clunky tank controls, and awful combat mechanics. I could never recommend this game purely on it's gameplay, yet what is a bit odd is that I don't feel like SH2 would have the same kind of impact had it been written as another medium. I don't feel like you would have gotten the same sense of isolation, moodiness, and ambiguity had it been a film or book. Traversing and exploring Silent Hill as you uncover clues feels like an integral part of the experience, and something would be lost without it. I reaffirmed this recently when I was trying to explain the story to a coworker recently and found the story falls flat without the extra moodiness of the world. The saving graces of the gameplay besides the atmosphere and secrets it provides are the fact that you can actually lobotomize the game to the point it becomes a simple adventure game if you want, and if you do bother with the combat, the enemies are surprisingly indifferent and easy to deal with. Not like SH1 where everything in town is fast, aggressive, and will relentlessly follow you faster than you can really run. SH3 and 4 pull similar stunts with enemies designed to block your progression until you fight them, or the obnoxious ghosts you have to and often fail to avoid. So I appreciate the fact that the enemies are just as interested in fighting as I am in SH2.
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In terms of atmosphere, Silent Hill 2 is incredibly creepy. The fog and the sound of the radio going off will chill you as you try to anticipate from which direction the enemy will be coming from and the dark world makes it even more unsettling. I actually feel the radio is a real clever idea as I feel the anticipation of attack is more unnerving than simply being surprised. The town has a washed out and dirty vibe, feeling like a town that was abandoned after severe flood damage and I like how this differentiates the game from the other entries that always went with an industrial "blood and rust" aesthetic. The town is surprisingly huge and you have far more freedom to explore than you would imagine. Of anything, it's a bit surprising to learn how many areas are accessible despite the game giving you no real reason to ever explore beyond the story path but it's actually kind of refreshing to take a detour from time to time if not just to find some extra resources to survive but to also uncover more clues and weird mind screw moments. The ending I received on my first playthrough is largely only obtainable by actually exploring the town as the event flags for it involve finding certain clues scattered about town. In fact, SH2's treatment of the multiple endings are pretty clever because they're largely subtle and never break the illusion of the story to remind you you're playing a game which is really a testament to the design teams writing and design capabilities. There is so many really cool directing cues in this game as well. I mean seriously this is one of those games where picking it apart reveals layers of really well thought out choices and design decisions and it's a damn shame modern horror films can't muster up the same level of care.
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Another thing I must gush about is the game amazing soundtrack. I was a little put off at first with some of the jazzier tracks that seemed a little too energetic for such a moody title but it frankly works better than I thought and ends up giving diversity that a simple doom and gloom OST could provide. I ended up buying the OST shortly after finishing the game because I was so impressed with the music and I've been using it to help with some of my own writing projects since the games soundtrack is great for character moments. Even if you're not into horror games or the game sounds boring, I would still implore people to give the soundtrack a listen cause it's really well done and helps sell the world and experience which is what a good soundtrack should do.
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Overall, Silent Hill 2 is a chilling and atmospheric tale about grief, anger, sexuality, and self loathing. A claustrophobic experience with many twists and turns that will keep you hooked even if you have to deal with troutty controls and tedious gameplay. It won't take long before you understand why all the post-Team Silent era games ape the hell out of this game's design. It was easily the series Magnum Opus despite making two pretty solid efforts afterwards. Check this game out, I don't often recommend games purely on the merits of the story, but this is one of the few I do.
tysvNGGFN3M
Coming Up: Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements!

Pumpkin

10-04-2017, 07:22 PM

Gonna try that game eventually and cry out of fear

Fynn

10-04-2017, 09:28 PM

I cried. But defo not out of fear

Scotty_ffgamer

10-04-2017, 09:31 PM

I couldn’t get into silent hill 2 as much as everybody else seemed to, but it’s still fantastic. I need to get a hold of these games and do a series play through sometime.

Bubba

10-05-2017, 09:21 AM

Symphony of the Night still gets regular playtime on my Vita. More-so than Super Castlevania IV which I always thought was my favourite. It's a tough call now!

I can't believe I still haven't played Ico. Shadow of the Colossus is one of my all-time favourite games. I bought the PS3 collection with both games on. It's terrible that I haven't even booted up Ico... or bought The Last Guardian yet. Ugh, I need more time.

My only experience with Silent Hill was either 1 or 2, I think it was the first one. I was running down a foggy alley and I was being followed by some kind of reincarnated foetuses... I was like "I don't smurfing think so" and noped out of it.

Fynn

10-05-2017, 09:28 AM

The letter broke me, tbh

Bubba

10-05-2017, 09:38 AM

Oh yeah, I forgot you covered Twilight Princess too. This is also my favourite 3D entry in the Zelda series. I loved the more mature look over Ocarina of Time's cartoony style. I also loved unashamedly using my Wii controller as a sword :lol:

The dungeons are great in all Zelda games but they definitely stood out in this one.

Wolf Kanno

10-06-2017, 02:44 AM

16.
74499

In the year 2000, the world did not end thanks to Y2K, and Squaresoft performed a miracle. They made a game that got a perfect score on Famitsu, back when that meant something. To put this in better perspective, a magazine that has been around since 1986, had only given out two perfect scores before this point. Nintendo's Ocarina of Time and Namco's Soulcalibur. So yeah, it was a tough magazine to please back then. Since 2008 they hand out on average three perfect scores a year and I'm sure most of us would agree that Nintendogs, MGS4, and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Battle All-Star are not the first titles to come to mind that represent absolute gaming perfection that every critic loves. So yeah, this was a big deal back then and the game was Matsuno's sophomore effort with Square, Vagrant Story.
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Set in Valendia, Vagrant Story is actually a flashback tale concerning the mysterious events surrounding a terrorist attack on a Duke's Manor by a mysterious cult, and the same Duke being assassination a week later under mysterious circumstances. The only person who can truly answer the question is a VKP Agent named Ashley Riot who was put on the mission to deal with the conspiracy but mysteriously disappeared during the mission. The story proper begins when the Cult Mullenkamp attack the Duke's Manor to look for something. Hearing about the attack, the Church send in the Crimson Blades a violent group of soldiers who deal with religious heretics to deal with the group, but darker conspiracies are afoot as the government dispatches their agent Ashley Riot to the scene as well. Ashley is a Riskbreaker, an elite unit among the VKP who deal with Black Ops for the government that are often tantamount to being suicide missions. His partner for the mission is an intelligence officer named Merlose who is new to field work and has never worked with a Riskbreaker before. Ashley encounters the cult's leader, the mysterious and charismatic Sydney Losstarot who brandishes a mysterious power called the Dark. The cult escapes capture along with a hostage in the Duke's son, but Ashley and the Crimson Blades follow them back to the cursed and abandoned city of Lea Monde, where Mullenkamp's religion began. The city is inundated with the power of the Dark and the Ashley and Sydney find themselves in a cat and mouse game that involves the dark secrets of the city, while both avoid the wrath of the Crimson Blades.
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Ashley winds up dealing with far more than he thought with killing Sydney and rescuing the hostage. His own past comes back to haunt him thanks to the dark powers of the city which brings to light the things that mankind wishes to remain buried. Soon Ashley begins to doubt who he is and why he is there, all while discovering the darker conspiracies between the Duke, Sydney, the Church and even his own government as everyone races to find the Gran Grimoire of Lea Monde, which will grant the full power of the Dark to whoever wields it.
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I think it's safe for me to say that not only is Vagrant Story Matsuno's best written work, despite his usual unfinished nature of most of his games, but it really is his magnum opus. It's easy to gloss over the many layers it brings to the player and the game has a Kojima level skill in making you doubt what you know. Heroes turn out to be villains, villains are secretly heroes of their own stories, and Ashley gets just as badly mind screwed by his superiors and the bad guys as all of the Snakes in the Metal Gear series. What I love about the game is how non-definitive everything kind of is. Part of this is due to the game's rushed development of course, as some plot threads are left unanswered, but it works surprisingly well to leave a lasting impression as you wonder what became of the games cool cast and wonder ho Ashley truly is.
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Speaking of that, I'll say again what I usually say about this but I feel Ashley does Cloud's story from VII much better, mainly by remaining ambiguous. You are given a quick backstory to Ashley in the beginning of the game, but soon Sydney and a few other characters begin to offer a different take on what Ashley remembers and it changes your perspective on the character. Is he a tragic figure with nothing else to live for, or a monster who simply lost the taste for blood and brainwashed to still serve his masters. A neat gameplay-story integration is that Ashley doesn't learn abilities, he remembers them, and I will say that the man is a beast. The game does not mince words or pretend that your victories are not some kind of great feat. It would have been nice if someone would say they were impressed you slayed a god in Dark Souls, especially when the fight was well earned.
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In retrospect, it's no surprise that games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne are on this list, while it's never been opening admitted, I feel it's safe to say that Vagrant Story was likely an influence on both games, though probably not as much as Berserk, Lovecraft, and King's Field but like those games, Vagrant Story is about a lone warrior braving a dark and labyrinth eldritch location where monster feast on men and the dead do not go quietly into the eternal embrace. To describe VS at best is that it's a Medieval MGS title with the Sci-Fi elements replaced with dark fantasy and light horror elements. The game does a pretty good job of making Lea Monde feel like an unsettling place and a better job encountering monsters and the undead actually feel kind of like an "oh trout" moment. One of my favorite moments in the game is when you encounter a Crimson Blade Sorcerer, who tries to wield the power of the Dark to summon a monster like Sydney does, only for the spell to kill him. Just when you think everything is over, the guy gets back up, reanimated by the power of the Dark, and his spell completes to summon an enchanted suit of armor. which segues into a dual boss battle.
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Gameplay is very difficult to describe. VS falls into the same camp as Zelda and incorporates enough elements from other genres in such an equal amount that it's difficult to really pigeonhole the game into one genre. It's a dungeon crawler with a quasi-turn base action RPG battle system in which your weapon choice effects your attack range and you choose a part of the body to attack before using timed button presses to chain together attacks to either kill or at least cripple the enemy. This is all interspersed with block puzzles, light platforming, and heavy weapon crafting. Bosses are huge and dangerous, but even the mooks can destroy you if you're careless or ill prepared for them. In fact, a couple fully outfitted Crimson Blades are generally a bigger threat than some of the bosses in this game.
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One of the most controversial elements of the game is the Risk system, something I hated when I first played the game but have honestly grown to really appreciate and love. As your character chains together attacks, his Risk Meter fills up which dramatically reduces his hit rate, lowers his physical and magical resistance, and skyrockets his critical hit rate. What this means is that as the Risk bar fills, you miss more often and are far more susceptible to damage, even being weak enough to get one-shotted by enemies if they land a critical hit that takes all your health. On the other hand, what few attacks you do land will almost always be a critical hit, and your own healing magic will heal more than normal, so it kind of balances out. You're only means of reducing Risk is to let it go down slowly after disengaging from combat mode which can be very risky in battle since your shield is kind of important to your defense, or by consuming limited items that should likely be saved for later battles. Instead the system works best in short spurts as you attack just enough to get a few good hits in without raising your risk too much and then keep your distance until a new opening appears. You could also try doing an infinite chain of attacks and pray the occasional critical hit will kill the creature before you screw up and it murders you. Course timing slightly changes over time and I believe the game actually has a limit before it will automatically make you miss. It's a neat mechanic that adds a lot of tactical value to the game much like Stamina in the Souls series.It also makes you rely more on buffs and debuffs to save your hide as well which are often a 100x more useful than the games few measly attack spells. Weapon crafting is generally more useful as you find shops to build better weapons from the ones you find or pick off enemies, and the mechanic has an incredibly amount of depth (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/137820-Is-it-worth-getting-Vagrant-Story-yes-no?p=3003282&viewfull=1#post3003282) I don't wish to repeat. Short version, weapons come in a variety of forms and materials which work more effectively on certain enemy types. As your character battles certain monsters with a weapon, that weapon's effectiveness against said monster increases, but it decreases against other types of monsters. The easiest way to get through the game is to build different weapons to suit different monsters and situations. Build a crossbow to deal with beast types like bats or goblins. Use silver weapons to deal with ghosts and undead. Hammers against Golems and crab monsters etc. etc...
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The dungeon crawling aspect also has a slight Metroidvania element going on for it as you will explore the labyrinth corridors that lead to different sections of the city. Sometimes the way forward is blocked by magic seals or locked doors that need keys so you'll have to backtrack to find a new way forward, but it's still pretty exhilarating slowly expanding the city until you reach the Necrohol which is filled with possessed murder dolls, creatures with instant death magic, and the leveled up versions of the Liches. I will admit the map mechanic could be better, and sort of explains why 3D Maps are not much of a thing. Also the Snowfly "wannabe Lost Woods" Forest can go smurf itself. As a late PS1 game, VS is surprisingly still good looking and Yoshida's artstyle really shines through, especially with Sakimoto's soundtrack. In fact it's easy to see some stylistic parallels between this game and the teams work on FFXII. In fact several ideas and visual styles were used for the Final Fantasy game. What's really surprising to know is that despite the few callbacks and references to FFTactics, VS was originally a standalone title. Made most obvious by the fact the Church of the game is specifically mentioned to be Christian. It was made part of the Ivalice series retroactively, but I feel it's a nice touch that several lore aspects of the game ended up having a major impact on XII such as Arcadia being placed in the Valendia region, and the references to the Kildean Faith. I'm almost surprised Lea Monde wasn't named dropped either.
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Overall, VS is a pretty sweet experience, a fund and twisting game in both its story and gameplay. It's like nothing else I've ever played and if you love Matsuno's titles you kind of owe yourself to play through this game. It's been slowly climbing my list over the years and every time I do another playthrough, I end up loving it more. Definitely a game I didn't appreciate at the time because I was too blind to see the games excellent design and cool concepts.
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Coming up: Doesn't that beat all?

Scotty_ffgamer

10-06-2017, 04:13 AM

I still need to play this game. I tried as a kid and absolutely hated it, but I just sucked at games and was probably expecting it to be more like ff.

Fynn

10-06-2017, 08:24 AM

Vagrant Story is fucking amazing

Del Murder

10-06-2017, 04:25 PM

Vagrant Story is a gem I didn't discover until recently but I'm glad I did.

Wolf Kanno

10-06-2017, 07:54 PM

15.
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Time to discuss my favorite entry in the Breath of Fire franchise. It's interesting how some series, when they made the leap from the old platforms to the PlayStation, decided to really explore more adult themes in their games and recast old, but typically stereotype evil bad guys as more complicated figures. I feel games like FFVII started the trend, but I would I feel BoFIII actually handled this element a little better. As I've mentioned before, starting with the second game, the series began to incorporate darker and more mature themes before it was completely swallowed up by it in BoFV. BoFIII is the entry I felt hit a perfect balance of being an idealistic adventure story, but one not afraid to tackle some really unsettling themes and scenarios. FFVII only briefly deals with the idea of your characters actions being wrong, and never once dwells on the ramifications. BoFIII is a game where you're going to end up doing some unsavory things from time to time, well in between trying to make the perfect sushi for a finicky mayor or train some wimp to fight the town bully. I'm getting ahead of myself.
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Breath of Fire III is the third and final entry in the "Myria Trilogy" though it takes most of it's story connections to the first game. In the distant past, dragons fought a terrible war that nearly destroyed the world before God stepped in and put a stop to it. For their hubris, dragons became extinct and the only reminder of their magnificence is their corpses that have turned into a magical crystal called Chrysm that fuels the modern age. The tale begins in a mine trying to extract this chrysm when some minors discover a baby dragon frozen in a huge piece of chrysm. Assuming it didn't survive the process they chalk it up as an oddity and blow open the chrysm to gain it, only to discover to their horror, the dragon pup is very much alive. Knocking it out after sustaining several casualties, the crew ship it off to Wyndia by train but the creature rocks it's cage and escapes. Having taken the form of a little boy, he is saved by a pre-teen Woren named Rei. A local orphan boy who steals and robs from the locals for survival. He takes the young dragon boy named Ryu back to his home where he meets Teepo, another boy about Ryu's age who is also a thief. The two train Ryu in the art of being a thief, but the town they harass is well aware of the boys antics and only put up with it due to pity. Unfortunately a weak harvest has stretched food and money in the town, especially due to unfair taxes, so the boys resort to burglary and try to rob the home of a local Lumberjack named Bunyan who catches them in the act. Wishing to teach the boys a lesson about society preferring people who earn their living by doing good deeds for society, he forces Ryu and Teepo to help him chop wood while he assigns Rei the task of hunting a dangerous monster that has been preying on the towns crops and livestock. Concerned about their friend, the boys follow after them after completing their chore and help Rei to track the beast. When they corner it, it is desperately trying to protect a cave but the three triumph and kill the creature. Curious about what it was guarding, they discover the monster was a mother with cubs, but her children had died from undernourishment but she was still trying to find food for them. Bunyan had been well aware of this but asked them to put the grieving mother out of her misery.
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Despite feeling bad for their actions, the boys are celebrated as heroes by the town and start getting better treatment which makes them feel better about the whole thing, until they are targeted by a local named Loki who asks the boys to "fix" an injustice is the form of the corrupt mayor's unfair taxes. He asks the boys to break into the manor and steal the taxes back for the town, which they gleefully do. Unfortunately, the town is horrified by these actions, especially since the boys are unaware that the mayor works for a major crime organization and their higher taxes are due to a "protection racket". Ostracized by the town, the boys return home to discover it's been torched by two of the organizations leg breakers, Balio and Sunder, who proceed to attack the boys and take their lives as an example to others who cross the syndicates path. Ryu barely survives the ordeal, but loses track of Rei and Teepo, yet holds onto the hope that Rei and Teepo survived as well, and thus he begins a journey to find his friends.
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The plot is largely told in three acts with summary above detailing the first act. The first half of the game deals with Ryu's journey to find his friends and escape from Balio and Sunder, during this time, Ryu discovers his dragon powers and his connection to the Brood, the name of the Dragon Clan. His journey soon switches to wanting to meet God to learn more about his race and why God saw it fit to have his race genocide which actually leads into Ryu's adult life as well. Like Wild Arms before it, BoFIII explores a theme of Power and what it is actually good for, as well as the value of a life, even if it is dangerous or unnatural. The game is filled with scenarios that will make Ryu and the player question these themes and the moral choices concerning them. The game does a fairly good job of shifting perception and keeping the central themes in a morally gray area for the player. While you can probably still feel the villains actions went too far, the greater scope of the world given towards the end, reveals that their actions were certainly for the betterment of life. For a game that is often very goofy and plays the humor quick and often, the game packs some hard hitting moments. I also appreciate the fact the game has a time skip. You begins the game with Ryu as a child of maybe eight years of age but the game ends with him as a teen whose bitter travels have honed him into a hardier fighter. It's interesting to see that kind of growth and it actually makes the early sections of the adult life interesting as you revisit characters from the first half to see what they've been up to.
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The cast, for me at least, is fantastic and I really don't feel like there is a bad egg in the whole bunch. Even team pet Peco ends up having a major character revelation towards the end of the game that subverts it's role in the story and makes subsequent playthroughs more interesting in hindsight. The Ryu of this game is actually my favorite and I love how the game really shows his personality through with some of his animations despite being a typical silent protagonist. When Ryu first begins fighting in the game, he's terrified of combat and basically waves the sword frantically without looking while he braces himself for a hit. After he gets some good levels in and a few story moments, Ryu begins to fight with more confidence. It's interesting to watch him go from barely knowing how to use a sword, to two handing the weapon to better balance with his small frame, and then see his adult form effortlessly fight one-handed. Nina was a character I initially hated cause I always found her a bit too emotionally needy and ditzy, but getting over myself a little has allowed me to come around and see her as a fun comic relief character in the first half of the game and a strong moral support in the second half. Rei and Teepo's story in the game is pretty heartbreaking, and probably some of the most impactful story telling in the game. Momo is amusing since she often feels detached from Ryu's story and only goes along since his journey is often leading her to discover the truth about machines and the world's past. Her own story involving her father's research lead to some of the darker moments of the plot that deal with how science should be used, the value of a life that wasn't meant to be, and environmentalism. Garr is practically a late arriving deuteragonist to the story which ties deeply into Ryu's story as he tries to find answers to his own path and questions his faith in God. Overall, I feel it's safe to say this game has my favorite cast in the series and one of the few games where I don't have to force myself to use everyone.
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Gameplay-wise, BoFIII is easily my favorite entry in the franchise, and much like Wild Arms, I feel the game best embodies what I want out of an RPG from a gameplay structure. Like previous installments, every character has an action they could on the field which can be useful for dungeon exploring. Hunting is gone for the moment, but fishing remains and is a huge improvement over BoFII's simple design. The Manillo Merchants have also changed as they no longer sell goods, but trade them for the fishes you catch, giving you even more incentive to actually fish than just free health items.
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III's greatest accomplishments is the Master system, which is basically a vastly improved version of FFVI's Esper system. Characters can find masters and apprentice themselves under them, which will modify their stats as they level up as well as teach a skill every few levels in the game. Only one of a skill can ever be obtained, but the game allows you to switch skills among the party or place them in a book for later use or to dispose of skills that have become obsolete. Gaining the approval of a master leads to some interesting sidequest shenanigans such as a chef who wants you to fetch items for them, a master who refuses to teach you skills until you finish learning another master's skills, and even one that involves a global hide and seek game. This system is complimented by the act that every character in the game already performs a role in battle, so Masters can either be used to increase their specialty's or cover their weaknesses. Ryu is your main damage dealer, but he's also the team medic surprisingly enough. Nina is a black mage type character, Rei is a speedy thief, and Garr is a slow tanky brawler. Weapon loadout is more important in this game than the previous ones, due to EX Turns. If your character is fast enough due to high speed stats and light gear, they can gain an extra turn after battle. This can be expanded on by the team formation skills which can garner some additional effects like increased defense for the whole party, doubling the point characters attack power, or even giving the team the same speed as the point man. There is a serious amount of great customization skills in this game.I haven't even mentioned that your party can learn additional monster skills in battle by simply observing the enemy to help expand their skill repertoire.
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The cherry on top of all of this is the Dragon Gene system, which is easily the coolest Dragon system in the series. Ryu can obtain crystallized dragon genes that grant him various abilities. Some genes add an elemental property, some grant a statistical property, and some simply add certain skills or properties. Each gene has an AP cost and you are allowed to combine three genes to customize the type of dragon Ryu can become, after the initial casting cost, Ryu must expend 10% of that cost every round to maintain the form which makes playing conservative with combination to keep cost down important but also balances the system out compared to the previous installments. As an example of how this works, Ryu begins with a Fire Gene which turns him into a Dragon Pup with Fire based skills, if you combine it with an Eldritch Gene which grants a defensive bonus, Ryu becomes and Adult Dragon with better stats and an additional skill in addition to the fire skills. There are actually several unique dragon forms that require certain combinations of genes, and the game even introduces a Fusion Gene to create unique dragon hybrids with attributes of most of the party much like Karn's Fusion skill in the first game. It's a pretty cool system that makes the ones that come after it pale in comparison.
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III also introduces the Fairy Village, an evolution from the town building mechanic from II which has been in every BoF since. You basically get to build and maintain a town but instead of hunting down citizens you simply manage its growth and have the fairies brainstorm job ideas which you can then have the town implement like a shop that sells rare items, one that plays the games soundtrack, and one that even duplicates items. While it's nowhere near as game breaking as some of the entries like II's stat abusing citizen or V's infinite money exploit, the town is actually fairly balance and pretty damn fun as a sidequest.
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The game does suffer a little of the Breath of Fire problem, which is where the game plot sometimes falls off the rails to deal with mini-game/sidequest nonsense. It's not quite as bad as II and IV though, but the game does have a few really obnoxious quests that will drag the momentum of the story to a standstill. The aforementioned Sashimi/Sushi quest being a particularly hated one by the fans. Others are incredibly charming like helping a hapless accountant train to fight a burly sailor which involves your own party beating the crap out of the kid to raise his stats. Nothing is quite as satisfying as watching this kid no sell everything the bully throws at him before one shotting him with his wooden sword. Other than that, the game is usually pretty good about keeping you moving forward with most of the setbacks being purely plot related such as Ryu and Nina's bad fortune in the first half of the game before Garr starts helping them.
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The sprite work in this game is still fantastic in quality and while some people bemoaned it at the time, I really like BoFIII's unique jazz influenced soundtrack which sets it apart from both the other entries in the series as well as other RPGs in general. It might not have the best OST (IV and V have better ones) but I really dig it and it's nice to have a serious change of pace since the genre is kind of bad about having music that sounds too similar.
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In the end, Breath of Fire III embodies my ideal RPG. While there are several I love more than it for various reasons, and there are several games that do things better than it, it's kind of a good starting point for me. I love having a cast of unique characters in both plot and gameplay, but I also appreciate the fact the game has a deep and meaningful customization system that allows me to tinker with them. The system is pretty balanced, and the puzzles and sidequests are pretty damn fun. The story falls into that deceptive territory of feeling like a silly and fun idealistic adventure, before it sucker punches you with more mature themes and plotlines that subvert the colorful world and makes you see it as the more gray and gray morality that it really is. It has strong narrative themes that remain consistent throughout the plot with several smaller stories that lead back to these themes interspersed throughout the game to give the plot real purpose and something to mull over long after you finish playing. The game introduces clever retcons that end up changing your perception of the previous titles in a positive light. It's overall just a pretty damn great game and I feel everyone should play it.
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Coming Up: What lies at the other side of this tangled web of memory is...punishment? Or...

Del Murder

10-06-2017, 08:07 PM

BoF3 is my favorite as well. I love all the characters.

Pumpkin

10-06-2017, 09:55 PM

I need to finish this. I was enjoying it

Fynn

10-07-2017, 06:03 AM

pssst you're wrong and iv was better

Raistlin

10-07-2017, 05:40 PM

Breath of Fire III was one of my first RPGs and remains a damn good game. Somehow I never got around to playing most of the other BoF games.

Wolf Kanno

10-08-2017, 08:06 AM

14.

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Oh hey look, it's another game I'm going to cheat on because it's actually two games, but I would be lying if I said this would be the last time I did this :shifty: . To be fair, the P2 Duology actually tells one story and was originally meant to be one game, but was split in two for various reasons during the production of what would become Innocent Sin. Now, I'm going to kind of do something I've largely avoided for most of this thread except on few occasions, I'm actually going to be spoiling elements of the plot. Partly because it is a pain in the ass to try and explain Eternal Punishment's story without referencing what happened in Innocent Sin and partly because it's incredibly difficult to convey how cool this all is without explaining some key points as well. On their own, IS is a goofy if unsettling game, and EP is pretty convoluted but intriguing title. Taken as a whole though, P2 is an extremely ambitious title with a very complex and intriguing story. While I will clearly mark when I will jump from one game to another, if you want to play the titles spoiler free, you may want to just pass on reading this entry of my list. On the other hand, I played the games out of order and not knowing the events of IS while playing EP didn't exactly ruin the experience for me, but I know everyone is different.

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Innocent Sin takes place three years after Persona 1, in the first timeline, at Sumara City and the story begins around Seven Sister's High School. Tatsuya Suou is our main protagonist, a quiet and reserved kid who loves motorcycles and a lighter given to him by a childhood friend, despite his aloof nature he's very popular at the school which gives him a lot of unwanted attention from gangs in rival schools and girls at his own. One such character is Lisa Silverman, a Japan born native whose parents are from the U.S. which makes her stand out like a sore thumb. In the past she was ostracized but now her non-Japanese features make her a bit of a celebrity at school. The two of them get mixed up with Eikechi "Michel" Mishima from a rival high school who is a narcissistic lead singer of a punk band,the top "bully" of his school, and said to have "psychic ability". The conflict turns out to be a ploy by Eikichi's band mates to get Tatsuya to join their band but the whole scenario turns into a fight between the three and all three reveal to have the power of Persona. They all collapse and meet Philemon, the personification of the positive aspect of the Collective Unconscious, who explains what their Persona power is and warns them that they will need it due to a strange phenomena going on in which rumors are becoming true in the city. After waking up, the trio test out what he says by doing the Joker Rumor which states that if you call your own number on your cell phone, a magical Harlequin in a pristine suit will appear and grant your desire. This turns out to come true but it seems that the Joker knows the three of them and blames them for some unknown crime. He steals the ideal energy from Eikichi's band mates and disappears vowing revenge.

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While trying to figure out what's going on, they meet encounter Maya Amano and Persona 1 veteran Yukino Mayazumi, who work for a popular teen magazine that is investigating high school rumors. The five of them band together as the rumors about demons becomes true and their personas allow them to fight back. They soon uncover a cult called the Masked Circle that is following Joker's will and collecting ideal energy from people for some scheme. Tatsuya, Eikichi, and Lisa all recognize the name of Masked Circle and as they travel together, a strange familiarity between the three and Maya begins to grow as they battle the four Generals of the Masked Circle and try to uncover their connection to Joker.

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Eventually the group remembers their connection to the Masked Circle and each other. As children, Tatsuya, Eikichi, Lisa, a fourth boy named Jun, and an older sister type girl would meet at the Araya Shrine to play. The kids all banded together over their love of a Sentai series called Featherman and each wore a mask representing one of the characters. Though Jun and Tatsuya were friends, the others never really took off their masks and the group bonded over being friends who never judged each other as the masks protected them from their problems like Tatsuya and Jun's troubled home lives, Lisa's appearance, and Eikichi's weight problem. Their club became the Masked Circle and their Big Sis taught them the Persona game which is how they all have Personas. When the kids found out their Big Sis was moving away, the children conspired to lock her in the shrine so she could leave with the exception of Jun. Unfortunately for the kids, a serial arsonist was in the neighborhood and set the shrine on fire. Tatsuya came back to the shrine to let his Big Sis out, but was attacked by the arsonist. Believing they caused the death of their Big Sis due to their selfishness, the group disbanded and buried the trauma in their memories. Te group soon realize that Joker must be Jun, the only member against locking their sis away and who would have knowledge of the Masked Circle, something that really hits Tatsuya hard since the two were the closest. What does come as a surprise is that Maya turns out to be their Big Sis, she was able to escape the shrine with her life but was terribly traumatized by the ordeal and was how she gained her pyrophobia. The group uses these revelations to renew their pursuit of Jun and convince him to stop their madness, especially since they now know that Maya is alive.

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Unfortunately, by this time, the Rumor issue has spiraled out of control in the public sphere and major conspiracy theories begin to materialize as truth such as Hitler surviving WWII and biding his time to rebuild his army for world domination and another concerning a book of Mayan prophecy that reveals that the Mayans were an alien race that built a special ship beneath the city in order to save a part of mankind from a disaster and lead them to enlightenment. It turns out The Masked Circle and Hitler are both after this ship and begin trying to make the prophecy come true. The group is able to get Jun back, but it doesn't stop the Masked Circle and the cult and the Nazis proceed with getting the prophecy to come truewhich allows the Mayan ship Xibalba to activate and rise above the earth. The party still has a chance to prevent the final part of the prophecy from coming true, and so they race to the center of the ship to stop Hitler. It's then revealed that Hitler and a few other figures in the story are actually the same entity and the one responsible for the rumors coming true to begin with. Nyalarthotep, the Crawling Chaos, and physical personification of all the Negative Traits of the Collective Unconscious has been orchestrating the whole phenomena of rumors and taking different forms to manipulate people to get hsi plan working. While the party is able to defeat him, Nyalarthotep arranges for Maya to be killed and fulfill the prophecy, ending the world outside of the ship. He then reveals that this whole ordeal had simply been a bet between him and Philemon to test the true character of humanity. With Maya dead, the world below destroyed and the villain gone to celebrate his victory, Philemon appears and gives the party a choice. He can send them to an alternate timeline where the events of the game never transpiredand Maya lives, but the condition is that the five of them can never meet and be friends, they must be strangers in this new reality and forget everything that happened. Heartbroken, the group agrees and Philemon send them to their new home, except one of them breaks the promise.

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Eternal Punishment picks up a few months after Innocent Sin in the new and current Persona universe. The game has shifted to Maya as the protagonist, and in a major shift for the series, the cast are mostly filled with adults in their mid to late twenties. In the beginning Maya comes across a strange boy whom she swears she recognizes but can't remember where, she calls him her Deja Vu Boy and can't really get the thought of his identity out of her head. She is tasked by her editor at the magazine to investigate a startling rumor that seems to be coming true called the JOKER Curse, where if someone calls their own cellphone, they can summon JOKER and have him kill whoever they want. Maya takes her roommate Ulala, an old friend with relationship issue and lack of direction in her life,to Seven Sisters High School for a quick interview, when they discover that someone hired JOKER to kill the principle. They then encounter Katsuya, Tatsuya's (yes it gets annoying) older brother who works as a sergeant for the police who arrives when the incident is called in. They try to find information on what's going when the three encounter JOKER who has been hired to kill Maya. Fighting him off with their awakened personas, the group have a run in with Maya's Deja Vu boy, who turns out to be Tatsuya, but he vanishes before they can get an answer out of him. The trio look towards Baofu, an underworld information broker with a shady past, to get a new lead and he informs them that rumors say that JOKER is connected to a parliament member named Tatsuzou Sudou, who is said to have ties with Taiwanese Mafia which intrigues Baofu enough to join them. They learn he has a son institiutionalized after he was caught doing arson as a teenager (This is the same guy who burned down the Araya Shrine in IS and he was one of the leaders of the Masked Circle) so they go to the hospital to only find that he has escaped. His room is revelaed to be covered in writing talking about the "Other Side", and only after do they find out he's in the hospistal and fighting off a hit squad called in on him by his father. The group chases after Sudou who keeps orchestrating events simialr to several of the Masked Circle events from IS and eventually the group are able to corner him with Tatsuya's help and end his tyranny, but Tatsuya reveals there is more to what's going on before diasappearing again.

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At this point the story falls into a conflict between Maya's group and the NWO being secretly controlled by Nyalarthotep. I am also seriously generalizing and condencing this plot so there will be a few more surprises, but yeah, game winds up being a redemption arc and i's pretty damn epic by the second game. EP itself makes a lot of use of the theme of Deja Vu and there are several call backs to the first game. In fact the first half of the game plays like an alternate take on the events of the first game, with you going through several of the same locations and relieving new versions of events. It goes a bit deeper as well because so many of the major players and plot elements of EP are minor characters or undeveloped plot threads in IS. You learn about Sudou's past and his father in the first game but never actually meet the man, whereas he's the primary antagonist for the second half of EP. Likewise, Tatsuya's relationship with his father and brother are only glossed over in IS but became major plot points in EP. Even the cast of EP barring Maya and Tatsuya are minor characters you encounter in IS, just as major players in IS are reduced to more minor roles in EP. It's almost like playing a time loop and it's really interesting to see the subtle and not so subtle changes between the two games. In the PS1 versions, you coul even transfer over some data to get a few extra bonuses, most of which affect Tatsuya's stats and gear but several choices made in the first game will have minor callbacks in the new game which is pretty neat if you ask me.
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I mentioned this in another thread, but P2 does actually have one of my favorite casts in the series, partly because they do a good job of balancing quirky personalties with down to earth problems that make them feel real, and also because despite the game being more traditional RPG before the franchise became a hybrid "dating sim", the surprising fact is that the characters are actually a bit more multi-faceted despite getting less screentime than the casts of later entries. I mean the IS cast all ddeal with an issue with their parents such as Eikichi and and Lisa being resentful at their father's trying to control their lives, Tatsuya and Jun are ashamed of their fathers and wish they had better parental role models, and Maya suffers from abandonement issues from her workaholic dad. The EP cast deal with more adult issues like Baofu's shady past with the Taiwanese Mafia, Katsuya's dealing with corruption within the police force and Ulala's self-esteem issues brought on by her directionless lifestyle and jealosy of Maya's career and good fortune. It's actually amusing going from this entry into the later ones as so many character traits and storyline get recycled in later games. The Tatsuya's relationship with his brother is reused in P5 with the Nijima sisters, Chie borrows several elements from Lisa such as her love of Kung-Fu and Cantonese. Junpei's relationship with the MC is actually just a redo of Ulala and Maya's relationship. P4's concept of Shadow-selves are taken directly from P2 with their origin being the only difference. So I have always found it interesting how much the newer team mines ideas from the game.
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Another aspect I love of the story is the cameos from other MegaTen games. Two non-Persona series characters pop up in the game in the form of Tamaki, the canon female lead from Shin Megami Tensei if... and Kuzunoah from Devil Summoner. Likewise, most of the P1 cast returns in some capacity over the course of both games with three of them being playable characters, which is kind of neat to see how everyone ended up after the first game and to watch the new cast get to see some serious veteran Persona users in action. The game also ties up a few loose ends from P1, but nothing so drastic that you need to play the first game to understand. Of anything the adult version of P1's cast are generally more likable than they were in the first game and a few people ended up getting redeemed for me.
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Gameplay is typical of many dungeon crawler style games, and I only feel to really talk about it here because most people know the later series style of gameplay more than this one. Characters can equip Personas to change their stats and use the Personas abilities and strengths and weaknesses to customize themselve sin battle. Peronas Rank Up as they are used which allows them to acquire new skills and it also boosts their stats. When a Persona reaches maximum rank, they can be traded back to the Velvet Room for an item. Sometimes when you use a Persona, a Mutation may occur which will either unlock a hidden skill or allow the Persona to evolve into a new form, with several types of Persona only being avilable through this method. Battles are turn based and utilize a new Fusion Spell system in which the order you have characters use their abilites will cause them to combine their power for a more powerful skill. Since most of these fusion spells are tied to the skills and the order they are performed, you are encouraged to keep replacing weak personas with new ones. There are some powerful and unique Fusion Spells tied to specific Personas though. It's a nice system that keeps you upgrading them quickly but allows even weak Personas to stay relevant longer. To say it's a far better and more balanced system than P1 is an understatement.
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Like the MegaTen series and Persona 1 before it, characters have the option of talking their way out of conflict. In the case of IS, the game expands on P1's version where each character has four unique talking points based on their character traits to try and use on monsters for positive results. IS introduces the idea of team conversations where several characters can be present and create unique conversation pieces or enhance others. For instance, Tatsuya can join up with Eikichi's singing conversation piece by accompaning him with an electric guitar, or Maya and Yukino do a comedy stand up routine together. EP takes this idea and runs with it, which is vastly more fun to play with as it gives you a much better idea of how each character meshes with each other. Katusya the cop, and Baofu the extortionist don't get along due to their conflicting ideas of justice, but it makes a great Good Cop/Bad Cop conversation routine, and later when you learn they both like baseball, you unlock a new one between the two where they are arguing which of their teams is better. It's a really neat way to sneak in some character development without bogging the game's already slow pacing with story scenes.
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Probably my favorite quirk in the game, and a completionsit nightmare as well is the Rumor system. Rumors come true if they are believed by enough people or simply spread far enough. While this is a major source of conflict in the game, the party can actually use the system to their advantage by using the Kuzunoah detective agency to spread the rumors. You have to come up with a rumor, which somtimes the plot supplies but often requires your characters to visit the various rumormongers around town to learn the local gossip. You can then manipulate these rumors to your benefit. The simplest and most ingenius way this is used is for equipment. As normal high school students or law-abiding citizens living in Japan with it's strict weapon policies, you can spread rumors that cause a local Ramen Shop owner to turn out to be some blackmarket weapon smuggler or make loacl clothing stores start displaying armor as the new fashion. It's a clever way to incorporate standard RPG shops in a modern setting. I think only P5 has ever come close to coming up with something as clever. Rumors go beyonf this though as you can also use the system to help you find rare demosn to battle in order to get items needed for rare persona, and you can even teach specail spells to select personas through the system as well. Hell in IS, gining the ultimate weapons involves spreading rmors of people who have them, which often corresponds wit a cameo from a character in P1, and then spreading a rumor among the demons themselves on how powerful the weapon is. It's time consuming as smurf, but I really love how far the devs took the logic of the game's premise.
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Persona 2:Eternal Punishment was my second MegaTen title and my first Persona game. I ended up playing the game at a very rough time in my life when I needed to make some serious changes. Maya has a catchphrase in the game "Let's Think Positive" which was something I kind of needed at the time. So in addition ot just being a really well thought out game with some serious occult vibes going for it, it's also a game I associate with a time where I was starting to pick myself back up and gain some control over my life. I recommend this game, even if the dungeon design leads a lot to be desired and the game feels ver antiquated by today's standards, P2 is a very clever experiment by Atlus, in fact it was the last game to be developed by the actual MegaTen Team before the current Persona Team was assembled, so the game has this kind of trademark "rough around the edges" feel that I really love in the franchise.
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Coming Up Next: "I won't cry! I won't give them the satisfaction! If I cry...it's like admitting the defeat of our family--defeat to the likes of them! And that's why... that's why I can't cry!"

Pumpkin

10-08-2017, 03:57 PM

Ohhhhh I know this next one :omgomg::omgomg:

Scotty_ffgamer

10-08-2017, 05:32 PM

I still need to play through eternal punishment. I wish we didn’t have to stick with the ps1 version as the bit I played kept throwing me off with the differences in names compared to the psp version of Innocent Sin, if I remember right.

Fynn

10-09-2017, 08:14 AM

I'm making my way through Eternal Punishment now, and it's actually not that hard to make the transition. The translation is very rough, so that makes things a bit harder, but then again, the battles are much more smoother and more enjoyable, so it evens out.

Love this duology, btw. And yeah, Innocent Sin is very goofy at most parts, but it's really telling of the writing quality that the story is still overall very dark and emotional and hits you extremely hard by the end.

Also, Maya is the best person alive and I love her very much.

https://static.zerochan.net/Amano.Maya.full.810089.jpg

Wolf Kanno

10-09-2017, 11:51 PM

13.
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When I first started thinking about this list a few years back, I knew this entry would be on here, but I expected it would be in the high 70s. Then when I decided to use the list to go back to do a reassessment on some titles, I found myself pleasantly surprised to see that not only did this game stand up, but was better than I actually remembered it. III has definitely aged a little worse than I had hoped for, but barring the games few issues, I feel the good elements ultimately outweigh those issues.
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Suikoden V takes place about ten years before the events of Suikoden 1, in the Queendom of Falena, a place that has been blessed by the Sun Rune but cursed with centuries of political infighting within the government. You play as the Prince, the oldest child of Queen Arshtat and her consort and Captain of the Queen's Knights, Ferid. Since leadership passes down through the women and not the men, your character ultimately gets stuck doing boring ambassador duties awaiting the day he'll be married off for some political ties. When the story begins, the Prince and his entourage, including his overprotective bodyguard Lyon, his politically savvy but incredibly lazy aunt Sialeeds, and the newest Queen's Knight Georg Prime, who is a friend from Ferid's past with a very rich military history that spans most of the series; are now returning from such an expedition to get an assessment of the damage done to the town of Lordlake. A few years before the story began, Lordlake had been the center of a rebellion that saw the sacking of a sacred temple and the theft of the Dawn Rune, which is one of the two runes needed to control the Sun Rune. Queen Arshtat ended up taking the Sun Rune upon herself and used it's powers to transform the town into a scorched desert that is barely hanging on and even more resentful of the royal family. Unfortunately, the True Rune the Queen has taken is beginning to warp her mind and giving her a god complex. Because of this, everyone in the palace, including her family are wary of her wrath.
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To get her mind off the troubles in Lordlake the family prepares for the Sacred Games, a Falena tradition where possible suitors for the future queen wage gladiatorial battles to see who will become the queen's consort and captain of the Queen's Knights. The Prince's little sister has started to come of age and the family is preparing to find out who their future in-law will be. The contest really comes down to which of the two major politically powerful noble houses will win the battle. The Barows family are a wealthy if very scheming faction that wants to play nice with the kingdom's enemies to help line their pockets and they are often accused of being too close to foreign governments. On the other side is the Godwin family, who are hardliners who preach of military conquest and wanting to create a more unified and nationalistic Queendom. These two factions scheming against each other have caused several succession wars within the queendom, including a fairly recent one which resulted in the death of several family members on both sides and the royal family. When the games begin, the Prince comes to learn the harsh truths of the political climate of his country, slavery, xenophobia on all sides, and both families scheming to win the games for the chance to control the government. The games end with a strange upset, and before the family has time to investigate, their enemies strike and the Prince is forced to flee the capital with his aunt. With his sister being controlled by the enemy, the Prince has to try to bring together various factions to form an army to protest the events concerning her marriage. This gets more complicated as the Prince must navigate between various factions who have allegiance to one of the two major political factions, groups who have years of grievances against the royal family, and even attempts by foreign powers to manipulate the war for their own purposes. More than any other entry, I feel like Suikoden V really embodies the complexity of war on a historical level far deeper than previous entries in the series.
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The plot actually unfolds very slowly and the story paragraph I gave you is a very very abridged version of just the first ten or so hours of the game. The title is a slow grind in the plot department, but it actually winds up being worth it in the end. Especially since a lot of this is to help establish several characters and factions you may not even meet again until 20 to 40 hours later. The cast of the game for the most part is pretty strong, almost as good as Suikoden IIIs and I love how the slow build actually makes some of the major plot twists before the game starts proper have more impact on you. The amount of depth and history that goes on in Falena is a bit more than usual for the series but it helps to make the conflict feel real, and the fact the game let's you really grow to care about the characters makes the tragedy that begins the war have more impact. If I'm going to nail the plot for anything, it would simply be that the villains start off strong and super competent before the take over, and then become incredibly incompetent afterwards, I mean it's like they were trying to piss off everyone after they took over which makes it easier to get the other factions to join your cause. I mean I know Highland kind of did the same thing in Suikoden II, but they were also being controlled by a bloodthristy psychopath who wanted to watch the whole world burn, whereas the villains of this game are more out for their own personal gain which makes their actions seem like political suicide. Also, Lucretia the Tactician is a bit of a Mary Tzu who is trying way too hard to be like Shu from SII without any of his fallable traits that make him a great tactician, but a horrible human being.

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Gameplay-wise, Suikoden V is an amalgamation of several design elements from all the previous entries that combines all of their popular traits. After being missing in action for two numbered entries, V brings back a fully controllable six character party. The main battle system plays like a more fleshed out version of Suikoden II with characters having three possible rune slots. From Suikoden III, the game brings in a new Skill system that is partially better balanced in some way, but still pretty powerful. Characters now only have two skill slots in which they can equip a skill that raises their stats like Attack, Magic Defense, or Technique. You use skill points to level these skills to get better stat gains but you'll soon unlock skills that only take up one slot, but affect multiple stats as long as you've leveled the weaker skills to the appropriate level. This means that by end game you can have a character using both slots to give huge stat boosts across the board. Yet it also follows the smarter choices in SIII, in which there are some unique skills that only certain characters can learn and these skills can never be removed, and not all characters can learn all of these advanced skills. There is actually one skill that only the Prince and one other character can actually learn and the better warriors can learn the most advanced physical skills while the best mages can learn the best magic ones. So the game avoids making you teach everyone everything and becoming clones. From Suikoden IV, the armor sets have returned and thankfully don't require the insane levels of crafting and item farming that made them a pain to acquire in that title. New to the game is party formations, where you can change the party formation to gain stat bonuses but also to gain a special ability that can be used once in battle. These range from special attacks that can wipe out enemies, to special defensive bonuses that block all magic for a round, to even letting the party get a preemptive strike on enemies.
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With the huge cast and customization options offered, this is a pretty fun game to play around with party configurations. Unite attacks are still here and thankfully the game avoids the earlier games habits of handing you some overpowered party wiping one ridiculously early, so battles don't become quite the chore. If I had to be honest though, SV is hands down the easiest game in the series barring collecting the characters. There are so many broken characters in this game that one of the biggest treats about the final dungeon is that you get to make three parties, allowing you to use most of them. There is one character named Ernst, who has such a broken rune, that if you combine him with the Formation that gives you a preemptive strike, you can effectively beat every boss in the game once he joins without every getting hit, and you don't even need to resort to that rune because characters like Belcoot, the two Maximilian Knights, Richard, Viki, and Zerase are all game breakers in their own rights. Georg Prime is so overpowered that not only is he usually taken out of your party for large chunks of the game for plot reasons, but even with the fact one of his skill slots is permanently filled with a non-combat skill he is still game breaker enough that the devs won't let you use him for the final battle until NG+. I didn't really understand until I watched the guy activate two of his special unique abilities and his runes special skill, only to proceed in battle by one-shotting the boss and cause five digit damage, in a series where doing 2500 damage is enough to call you overpowered. So yeah...
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On the flip side, Duels have been overhauled. They retain the same setup as the previous game but now have a timer forcing you to make more quick decisions. Like the previous games, the duels utilize motion capture but have more of a wir-fu quality to them. The Prince is a pretty brutal fighter I might add. My favorite new addition is the War Battles, which work like Suikoden II where you build calvary, infantry, or mage units, but now expanded with water battles involving ramming ships, archery ships, and troop ships. It now uses the rock/paper/scissors approach to damage algorithms over whatever moon;ogic algorithms SII was using, and the battles are all Real Time Strategy so you have to stay on your toes so you don't get outflanked and watch your troops get slaughtered. This is easily my favorite war battle system in the series and offer some of the biggest gameplay challenges in the game. Well until you learn that the Beavers are the Navy SEALS of all aquatic battles. Another, and often underappreciated element I liked about the game was that it continued to utilize a trandiotnal world map/town/dungeon set-up which was being really fazed out around this time as games were transitioning to more realistic scaled maps. In fact, with the exception of maybe a few obscure RPG titles here and there, I have a hard time thinking of another RPG on the PS2 released after 2006 that had a classic world map.

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Of course the real challenge of these games isn't combat or dungeon crawling, it's acquiring all of the 108 Stars of Destiny and SV might be one of the most difficult. Part of this is due to the fact that several characters actually have multiple methods to get them to join and the easiest solutions are often the easiest to screw up. Oboro the Detective is a good example. You need to hire him in the early game to investigate the Barows family and their connection to the Lordlake Rebellion, You're told to hire him and then go home, but if you travel to a certain town, you can team up with Oboro to help him with the investigation. Doing so allows you to recruit him at the first possible chance you can offer him. If you missed this, you have to ask him after every major story event and hope the RNG let's him, otherwise you have to wait until almost the end of the game and since he's the character you use to find the other characters and learn background information, you want him ASAP. Another character involves winning a war battle with overwhelming victory and then asking him while you have young cute girls in your party cause he's kind of a lech.If you don't, he won't join until your over halfway through the game and he feels you have a chance of winning the war. So yeah, it gets really challenging without a guide to recruit everyone.
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It's kind of interesting how similar this game is to another game on this list, Final Fantasy IX. Both games actually started off as Gaiden games and then got turned into numbered entries. Both games were also designed with the intention of being a celebration of the series with numerous shout outs and fan service to the series. Both games are also criticized for awful load times. Sadly, Suikoden V could not escape the series various curses such as low production values which get annoying when you realize the same company makes Silent Hill and Metal Gear Sold. The other curse being the games always being released around the same time of a more high profile and generally better produced game by Square-Enix. Suikoden II was released the same month as FFVIII, Suikoden III was released just a few months before the hotly anticipated FFX, SIV missed holiday and was released after DQVIII, an SV was released the same smurfing week in the States as Kingdom Hearts II. None of this is helped by the fact the series rarely got much advertising from Konami, permanently pigeonholing the franchise into cult status. It's a real shame because after the lackluster SIV, V turned out to be a fine addition to the franchise despite the handicaps but it was too late and it remains the last installment of the major story arc the series had been building up until this point. Still, if you're franchise is going to go out, I like the fact Suikoden V ends it with abang before the inevitable whimper of the gaiden titles. Although the game is kind of hard to come by now, I honestly feel it's a pretty good gateway entry into the series, though you will miss half of the references to the franchise.
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Coming Up Next: Some mountains are scaled, others are slain...

Slothy

10-10-2017, 12:06 AM

Oh my god I know what's coming. :squee:

Pumpkin

10-11-2017, 02:02 AM

I love Suikoden V :jess:

Raistlin

10-11-2017, 03:30 AM

I was starting to write a much longer reply, but I realized almost all non-WK posts (including mine) are fairly brief... except when I responded to your last Suikoden game on this list. I get a little passionate about this series. :shobon:

Suikoden V is a great game, and I get why people place it above S3. But I tend to like S3 a hair more due to a more engaging cast of main characters, and S5 is not enough more polished to compensate. But it does have one of the best traditional world maps; I'm not sure I can think of another game where the map just felt quite as big to explore.

Wolf Kanno

10-11-2017, 05:58 AM

12.
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So when I was reevaluating my thoughts on Ico, I remembered I had the HD edition on PS3 and I was having such a fun time going through the game I decided that a new playthrough of Shadow of the Colossus was in order. It never moved on my list, but it was still great to reaffirm for myself why I placed it so high. his is such a unique and interesting title, that despite some of it's flaws, just wins you over by the experience it gives you.
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Shadow of the Colossus is the story of a man named Wander who travels to the Forbidden Lands with his horse Agro and the corpse of the woman he loves. He travels to these lands to bargain with an ancient entity sealed there in order to bring his love back to life. The entity says its within it's power but will come at a high price of which Wander agrees. At this point Wander is tasked with slaying sixteen Colossi that wander the land in order to free the entity. Armed with a simple bow and a magic sword, Wander travels across the time stopped lands with Agro to hunt these great behemoths.
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In true Team Ico fashion, there isn't much left to say about the plot because it's pretty minimalist like Ico was. In fact, there isn't even a lot of evidence to say the girl you're trying to resurrect even returns Wanders feeling towards him. You can imagine him as a creepy stalker or heartbroken hero, it's up to you to decide.
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The gameplay itself follows this minimalist approach as the Forbidden Lands are a huge landscape to traverse, with several out of the way locations, that are filled with very little outside of the Sixteen Colossi. Yet I must commend the developers because in addition to the world being quite gorgeous to look at, this less is more approach does translate well as simply finding a gorgeous view or out of the way tree with fruit is pretty rewarding in itself. I appreciate the fact the game lets you explore as much as you want and doesn't necessarily feel obligated to bog you down with chores to do.
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Course the main event here are the Colossi themselves. They have often been described as sixteen boss battles but only a handful truly deserve that moniker whereas the majority of them are simply action platforming puzzles that resist your efforts to solve them. The Colossi exhibit different behaviors that range from aggressive, to curious, to indifference. These quirks create their own challenges and memorable elements for each of the Colossi and trying to find your way to each of their Glowing Glyphs to strike them down can bring with them their own amusing brain twisters. That's kind of what ultimately sets this game apart from other games. I mean MGS and Zelda have puzzle bosses as well, but most of them are fairly simple in practice with several tools at your disposal. SotC on the other hand gives you only the most basic tools and instructions to solve their riddles and it takes observing the landscape and the nature of the beasts themselves to figure it out. Before I played this game for myself, I was watching a friend go through it and he got to the Turtle boss in the Geyser fields. For the life of him, he couldn't figure out how to get on them until I suggested he lure it over to one of the geysers to see if it will knock him off balance. Sure enough, that was the first step to beating the beast and it was such an organic and well thought out puzzle that it has stayed with me for quite awhile.
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Another thing that has stuck with me about this game was a review I read where the reviewer mentioned they didn't finish the game. Not because it was hard, but because they felt too guilty about what they were doing. For anyone who has played the game will know, beating the Colossi does not give you some triumphant victory theme, instead you're greeted by more somber pieces depicting the death of an a ancient and sacred creature that will never be seen again. The black tentacles are also a dead giveaway, but I was pretty struck by the idea of a game that could move a person to feel that way. Like Ico before it, Shadow of the Colossi tells a tragic and moving story with little words and context but rather with feelings itself, which is something I feel games try to strive for, but mostly fail to do so well. Largely because they tell you what to feel whereas this title and Ico sort of bring it out of the player more naturally.
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I don't really know what else to say here, like Ico and Journey before it, this game is more an experience than a game, though the dev team could have made the controls a bit less clunky, so it's hard to really put into words what this game is about and why you should play it, other than that I feel the title embodies what gaming allows us to do. To explore a land, chase down a flying monster that requires a precise jump from your horse to reach and then a climatic struggle to slay the beast in order for the game to instill with you a deep sadness that makes the feat a hollow victory. Yeah, I just might leave it at that.
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Coming Up next: Genes exist to pass down our hopes and dreams for the future through our children. Living is a link to the future. That's how all life works. Loving each other, teaching each other... that's how we can change the world. I finally realized it. The true meaning of life...

Bubba

10-11-2017, 10:46 PM

Shadow of the Colossus has a comfortable place in my top five games of all time. I find my thoughts wandering to it occasionally in everyday life. It's probably left more of a mark than any game I've played.

Del Murder

10-11-2017, 11:15 PM

Wolf Kanno

10-12-2017, 03:38 AM

I admire SoTC for its uniqueness and how it conveys its emotion but it was just an average game for me.

I'm going through my top 100 right now and I wonder if you had the same experience I am having, Wolfy. I found the top 30 or so surprisingly easy to rank. The next 50 were fairly easy to identify but I'm finding it very difficult and arbitrary to rank them. And now I have about 100 games I need widdle down into the final 20, which I'm finding almost impossible.

That's pretty much how it worked out for me, and once you start writing about your thoughts on them, the order will start shifting as well. The first twenty or so were pretty easy, as was the next thirty or so.

Wolf Kanno

10-12-2017, 09:09 PM

11.
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A game I'm sure most of you thought was going to be in my Top Ten, but just got squeaked out for a number of reasons, though it does regularly switch with number ten on my list. The biggest issue is simply that I just don't feel like the gameplay has aged quite as well as I had hoped. The level design combined with the simple enemy A.I. makes stealth pretty easy, I find the auto-aim to be more annoying than helpful, and jumping off from that point, battles that require actual non-first person view combat or setting traps are generally more annoying than fun. I love the cool gimmicks going on with Psycho Mantis, but it doesn't change the fact the fight is a total chore. So with the very few negatives out of the way, let's discuss why this game is so goddamn amazing.
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Set several years after Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Snake has retired from FOXHOUND and the military after suffering PTSD and still reeling from having to kill his only friend and his supposed father. Snake is captured by the U.S. Military and talked into doing one last mission for his country. A weapon disposal facility on Shadow Moses Island has been taken over by FOXHOUND itself. Hostages include the DARPA Chief, and the head of a weapons development firm ArmsTech. It doesn't take long for Snake to realize that the disposal facility was really just a front for several government Black Projects and Snake is once again dealing with a new model of Metal Gear. What follows is a personal story of Snake trying to overcome his past and realizing that no matter what he does, war is a part of his life. The plot twists and turns until Snake soon discovers that he may truly be on his own as his own allies have their own motives and secret agendas, not to mention Snake has to do battle with the most iconic and well loved group of villains in the series. There is also a strange Cybernetic Ninja that seems to be familiar with Snake...
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I feel what separates MGS1 from the rest of the series with only one or two exceptions is that if you peel off the more supernatural/Sci-Fi elements from the story like FOXHOUND and Metal Gear, the plot overall hits that nice sweet spot for spy thrillers where the whole scenario feels plausible. A government showing the world a face that wants peace, while secretly double downing on their weapon projects to eventually give them an edge over everyone else. Granted the plot was more impactful in the late 90s when the world was still leery about the changing of the global power structure, I think today, most people would find the premise of the plot a bit redundant since U.S. influence is still dominating largely because of our military might. Yet the game touches on larger issues about nuclear weapons in the modern age. From discussion of their devastating impact, to the rather slow and clumsy disarmament efforts, to the fact that despite a nuclear holocaust being averted the threat of a nuclear weapon being used has become more likely now that the technology has fallen into the hands of terrorist or rogue nations.
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I blame Neon Genesis Evangelion and a few other series at the time, but Japan had a weird fad in the late 90s concerning stories that delved into identity and existentialism. I think Vagrant Story might have been the last game to really delve into it but games like Silent Hill, Final Fantasy VII, and most of all Metal Gear Solid really explored this notion of who we are. MGS differs from the pack by blending the usual philosophical connotations of the subject by combining it with some science. Granted, it's a well known fact that Kojima's team didn't do their homework concerning how genes actually work but the concept still works in the greater intellectual discussion concerning nature vs. nurture. Is it out genes and parentage that make us who we are, or does our environment play more of factor? Will even knowing this truth set us free from the struggles of wanting to know who we are. The character of Naomi is haunted by these thoughts, and while Snake rarely says anything on the matter, his dialogue with several characters especially FOXHOUND plays into this larger theme as well. Snake sees himself as a broken ace and a victim of war, but secretly knows that war and fighting are not only the only things he enjoys, but the only things that give him meaning and this is something he will struggle with for most of the series but this game begins Snakes journey to find deeper meaning for himself and to not be bound by his past or heritage.
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To have a game that really tackled these complex themes and scenarios would have alone been enough to make this game stand out from it's peers at the time but MGS also pushed the gaming medium as well. I've already pushed forward the idea that MGS used MG2 as a template for most of the scenario and a few returning themes here and there, but MGS takes advantage of what 3D animation can do to finally allow Kojima and his team to create a game that almost feels like a film. While Kojima had played around with fourth wall breaking concepts in his previous titles, none have been quite as iconic or jaw dropping as some of the stuff he did in MGS1 with Psycho Mantis or bringing back the "find the solution on the back of the actual game box" puzzle which I had accidentally stumbled upon on my first playthrough. I didn't use a guide, I simply remembered the box had shown the codec number and felt I was "cheating" the game out of solving the puzzle when in actuality, I was just too simple to realize that was the solution. It's a combination of these elements that really show off how clever the design team was and instilled in a generation of gamers how gaming was finally leveling up to whole new era, and sadly I just don't feel like any generation afterwards has really thrown the gauntlet down like MGS and several other titles of the PS1 generation did.
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Despite the laughable polygon models and graphics, the PS1 original will always be the iconic MGS experience as I felt the dirty graphics and blue and green filters really added a visual style to it that later entries and the Gamecube remake just simply couldn't match up to. It added a grittiness to the world that is as iconic to it as cardboard boxes and Snake's headband. So despite the aging graphics, I still find the original the most aesthetically pleasing if that makes any sense. The soundtrack is also quite iconic and up until MGSV, was one of my favorite in the franchise. The Gaelic singing adds a sad eeriness to the setting and the rest of the music hits all the right marks to make this game feel like a film adaption of a Tom Clancy thriller. As much as I did enjoy MGS2, I feel like most of us would agree that MGS1 was a really tough act to follow.
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Another factor I will give this game is it's iconic cast. Cold-hearted killer Snake, the adorkable Otacon, Snake's reluctant former commander Campbell, sexy and mentally distraught Naomi, perky Mei Ling, green horn Meryl, hardboiled Natasha, and wise Miller. Not to mention FOXHOUND itself which set such a high standard for MGS villains that no entry has ever been able to match both their iconic characterizations and ingenious boss battles. I mean some of the most memorable moments of the game are the final moments with Psycho Mantis, Sniper Wolf, and Vulcan Raven. Even the Cyborg Ninja has been so iconic that Frank Jaeger's character has retroactively been retcon into always having a Ninja fetish and later games have ham-fisted the character archetype for the sake of the fans. Liquid, man Liquid was so popular even Kojima was surprised and kept getting more and more parts for the series despite being killed in his initial game. I feel it's safe to say the cast of this game hit it out of the ball park and has never been recreated as well since. Also Metal Gear Rex is easily the best Metal Gear in the franchise. It's design is the most iconic but I have to hand it to the game for making it feel like you're fighting a realistic robot as well as opposed to the physics defying "Minski Particle" variants that appear in every entry after it. It's amusing to play MGS1 and get a sense of trying to make Rex feel like he's a real thing you could see in the world, and then jump to MGSV it's Metal Gear feels like it was from Zone of the Enders.
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I don't know, it's hard to discuss this game because so many people have already analyzed the hell out of it. If video games had a teaching manual, a whole chapter could be dedicated to this game alone if not a whole book. If you have not played this classic, you owe it to yourself to do so. It might be as impressive as it was in 98, but I've seen people still blown away by it so what do I know. Anyone, check out the game that took a small one-note series and transformed in into a massive franchise that people still talk about today.
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Coming Up Next: Tis your birth and faith that wrong you... not I.

Bubba

10-12-2017, 09:19 PM

I always wonder where I'd place MGS on my list of top 100 games. It'd be top twenty for sure. It broke so much ground.

Scotty_ffgamer

10-12-2017, 09:36 PM

MGS will always be one of my favorite games.

Del Murder

10-12-2017, 09:37 PM

krissy

10-12-2017, 10:43 PM

blame yourself or the next game

theundeadhero

10-12-2017, 11:21 PM

http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/162816-Reaffirming-That-Metal-Gear-Solid-Is-The-Best-Game-Ever?p=3534827&viewfull=1#post3534827

His influence has effected me forever.

Raistlin

10-12-2017, 11:35 PM

Del Murder

10-13-2017, 12:08 AM

Only one of my 7 guesses is not a JRPG.

EDIT: OK, I am up to 9/10, possibly 10/10.

Wolf Kanno

10-13-2017, 02:43 AM

Ooh, the top 10 coming up! I can guess at least 2 games on it without thinking. Probably more if I reviewed your list and extrapolated.

EDIT: A 10 second breeze through your list and I think I confidently know 2 others.

EDIT2: Just figured out another one, unless you are throwing us a big curveball here.

EDIT3: I now speculate another two. Basically I'm going on the fact that you like some particular series yet haven't even named their best entries yet. 7/10

A quick glance got me to 5 fairly confidently, with a possible 6th uncertain. I'm not sure I can get to 7, though I also know very little about WK's taste in non-JRPGs (and all but one of my 6 guesses are JRPGs).

EDIT: Hah, just thought of two more guesses, though only guesses. As far as my 3 guesses though, I probably wouldn't have originally picked them for your top 10, and am mostly guessing them just because I'd otherwise be a little surprised they're not somewhere in your top 100.

Only one of my 7 guesses is not a JRPG.

EDIT: OK, I am up to 9/10, possibly 10/10.

You two will have to start a betting pool to see if you guessed them. I feel my top ten is pretty easy to guess if you know what I've listed as some of my favorite games before. I think only two of them might be hard to figure out as one of them is a game I talk about a lot but doesn't get a whole lot of attention on the forum and the other one I've only talked about a handful of times.

I will say right now that I did cheat with one of them but it will hopefully make sense when I get to that entry.

Only three of my entries are not JRPGs and that depends on how you feel about the third entry.

The oldest entry in the top ten will be turning thirty next year, the youngest entry is about eleven years old now. Only four entries were not made in the nineties.

The list is comprised of games made by only five companies. Two of which, made six of the listed games. Two of the companies only made one and the rest were made by the last.

Raistlin

10-13-2017, 04:37 AM

I'll put my guesses under spoiler tags. Purely for bragging rights, others should post their guesses before looking at anyone else's.

These I'm pretty confident about being on the list:

FFVI
FFT
Suikoden II
Chrono Trigger
Xenogears

These I think are pretty likely:

MGS 3
Zelda: Link to the Past (bumped this one up in confidence after WK's last post)

These I'm guessing only because I'd be surprised they're not somewhere in the top 100 otherwise given what I've read from WK and elsewhere:

Persona 3
SMT: Nocturne
Some Guilty Gear game given your love of fighters (a more random guess after racking my brain, because I wanted to include 10 and this would be a third non-RPG). I do not know the series at all so can't pick one, or maybe this is where you cheat and pick the series as a whole.

I'm also surprised Suikoden I is nowhere in the top 100, but I don't think it's in the top 10.

Other fan favorites that I'm willing to call as NOT going to be there: Ocarina of Time, FFVII.

Del Murder

10-13-2017, 04:32 PM

In no particular order:

Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger
Persona 3
Persona 4
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mega Man 2 - the 'turning 30 game', didn't have that on here until you gave that hint (dropped Zelda: OOT for it)
Xenogears
Suikoden 2
Metal Gear Solid 3 - this is the curveball, maybe you just didn't like it as much as the other MGS games
Final Fantasy VII - I can't remember if you hate VII or just like to critique it, so this is the shakiest of my guesses

Del Murder

10-13-2017, 04:41 PM

Hmm, 70% overlap with Raistlin's list. I'm pretty sure he got one obvious one I didn't. :D

Raistlin

10-13-2017, 11:45 PM

Yes, I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the game that's going to be #10. :p

I did not even think to look for what other Mega Man classics weren't already mentioned. I like Mega Man 2 as a "otherwise surprised it's not somewhere in the top 100" guess even before the turning 30 hint, which I completely neglected. I'm pretty confident this is on the list now.

Wolf Kanno

10-14-2017, 04:09 AM

10.
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My relationship with FFTactics has been a little strange the last decade or so. I blame a large part on it with my falling out with Tactical RPGs or as I like to think of them as useless time sinks. I kind of blame NIS and their Disgaea series for being so unapologetically frank about the nature of the genre which promotes endless grinding for diminishing rewards. In fact this revelation made it quite difficult to even finish War of the Lions, which I considered to be a sad state of affairs for me. How could a game that really opened my eyes in the late 90s now kind of bore me?
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I'm sure you're wondering why I'm starting my tenth favorite game of all time on a rather pessimistic note. Well ultimately I realized the issue was me and my troutty way of playing the game. I'd become so fixated on completion and grinding that I ultimately transformed what was once an engaging experience into a chore. That's not how this game is suppose to be played. Not endless grinding for skills I'm never going to use, not borking my levels to transform every story battle into a formality of my inevitable victory with mu overpowered party, not figuring out how to transform every battle into some level party experience. I got so munchkin with the genre that I kind of lost track with what made this game so special for me. Once I realized what I was doing, I was finally able to really embrace the game again the way I had before.
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Tactics is a game that combines a lot of things I love: A well developed Job Class system that gives me that perfect balance of customization while retaining specialization, a world and setting with historical context and allusions that intrigues my love of history, my fascination with astrology, and a story about people and the morally grey conflicts that humans often find themselves in. If I had to give one gripe with the plot it's the fact the Lucavi story arc ultimately takes over despite being far less interesting than the actual Lion War. I'm not sure what that really says about the writing, when demons running a church based on a false faith are masterminding a scheme to cause the war and bring back their world ending leader is somehow less interesting than a story about asshole nobles screwing everyone over for a short-lived taste of power. Perhaps it simply shows that I often appreciate a more humanistic story than a fantasy one.
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I think what ultimately draws me to FFTactics is the game's strong cast of characters, with special mention going to the two central characters of Delita and Ramza. As much of a despicable human being Algus is, I can at least understand where he is coming from. I don't agree of course but I appreciate the fact that a guy with such simple motivations can be such an interesting figure who really drives home Ramza's conflict in the first chapter of living up to his noble heritage. Wiegraf deserves special mention as he is ultimately a tragic figure who tried to do good and was ultimately corrupted after losing everything. I mean he begins the game as this disenfranchised soldier simply fighting for a cause to make the nobility to treat their common soldiers better and give them their due pay and he ends up losing almost everything as corruption within his own ranks and the death of his sister hang on his shoulders. To see him again as a Knight of the Church in the later chapters is actually a bit relieving until he finally succumbs to the power of the Zodiac Stones and becomes that one boss in the game, yet it's fitting that such a figure who had a profound effect on Ramza and vice versa would be one of the greatest obstacles to conquer in the game for the player.
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The Beoluve family itself is a rather gripping drama concerning patricide, regicide, and the hubris of living for a name instead of the people who make it up. I feel that's often a central theme that defines the differences between the ideology of Ramza and Delita. Delita is driven by a sense of justice for the good of all, but unlike Ramza, he loses sight of the human element in all of it to make it worthwhile. He saves Ivalice from a corrupt nobility out for itself but in doing so had to become the very thing he fought for leading his entire cause to be one of hypocrisy. Even his one true friend is nothing but a pawn to him and in the end, he winds up being hailed as a hero and king but his victory is ultimately hollow. For me, what ultimately makes his final words in the game's epilogue matter is the fact we can once again see a hint of the old Delita who was just as naive and idealistic as Ramza. If Delita was truly as cold-hearted as we are led to believe, then his final outcome would not end with him saying such a phrase with such remorse. It's here where I feel Matsuno truly shines with his writing as we witness the intellectual moral harshness of Ivalice and the knowledge that despite Delita's terrible actions, he is in the end freeing Ivalice from it's current perpetual quagmire of political conflict and bickering among the nobility at the cost of the commoners who are treated more like cattle than people. It's a bitter pill to swallow but one that has some resonance within the real world.
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Yet it's Ramza that is the heart of the whole matter. A soft-hearted noble who inherited his father's good nature and his brotherhood with Delita opening his eyes to the fact that your family name doesn't make you any better than those without one. It's interesting to watch the idealistic Ramza try his hardest to live up to his family name in the first chapter, even being rewarded for making heartless decisions once or twice despite the fact that each one gives Ramza more internal conflict. To watch the influences of Delita who is kind and equally as skilled as the high born lads Ramza travels with be treated unfairly while Algus, a disgrace noble's son try to properly educate Ramza on how nobles should be. Ultimately it leads to the death of one of them and the irreversible downward slide of the other, but Ramza continues to wrestle with his conflicting desire for justice in a world where justice means different things to people depending on whether they have a name or not. That is something we see ourselves in the real world as it often feels like those of more importance can get away with terrible crimes where those that cannot are often unfairly punished. Ramza doesn't awaken to justice here but instead spends the second chapter running away from his problems, only when he finds out that Delita is alive, learns of the Zodiac Stones, and finally conquers Gafgarion a possible future self Ramza may have become had he continued to run from his problems. Yet unlike a traditional hero story where the hero begins to win triumphantly once they conquer their spiritual journey, Ramza is instead tested and slowly loses everything but his sense of justice. His trouble only tempers his resolve and we watch as the young cadet who did as he was told and int he shadow of his brothers rose to be not only to have an unstoppable resolve but prove he was the one who truly inherited the spirit of his father.
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It's interesting how Delita's journey is one of material gain at the cost of his soul, while Ramza's is a spiritual journey where he must discard the earthly desires that hold him down. It's incredible elegant in it's execution and I feel it leaves a much more profound lasting feeling after the credits roll and Delita utters his final lines. It is ultimately the games themes and characters that keep this game so special to me. In High School I began writing a novel with a friend and we decided to make it a trilogy, though in the Final Fantasy sense of similar themes but each story taking place in different settings and with a new cast. Our initial novel was heavily inspired by the various media we were consuming at the time and even began it's life as a sort of FF fanfic. The second novel though was planned to be largely inspired by FFTactics, including the story having two protagonist of similar nature on opposite paths in life. We never finished the first novel, I'm still currently writing it and it's currently on it's fourth draft, yet I still find myself wanting to write that second novel, especially when my thoughts dwell on FFTactics for too long and that might be what I love about this game the most, the fact it still inspires me to want to do something I truly love.
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Coming Up next: In the beginning, there was Sword and Shield...

Spuuky

10-14-2017, 07:14 AM

A worthy presence in any top 10. In my opinion, either the best or second best game to bear the Final Fantasy name.

Psychotic

10-14-2017, 08:28 AM

An excellent write up on what makes FFT so great.

Raistlin

10-14-2017, 03:13 PM

FFT is my personal top FF. I also 100% understand your "troutty way of playing," because a number of my playthroughs have stalled and been forgotten by me getting sidetracked with grinding rather than just enjoying the challenge and story. But it's a fantastic story, great characters, great job system. Terrible translation for the PS1 version, of course, though I still use the PS1's names and titles.

Also, Suikoden II all the way down at #9? Outrage! :wcanoe:

krissy

10-15-2017, 11:03 PM

smurfing called it

edit:

unrelated but i used 'the zodiac brave story' by SQUARE as a reference when writing a high school essay on morality and ethics

my teacher must've been like 'what is this'

Wolf Kanno

10-16-2017, 12:36 AM

9.

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So yeah... totally cheating with this one but technically there was a release of the game that packaged both of them together, but not counting that excuse, my reasoning really has to do with the fact the two entries really flow well into each other. Suikoden II at times feels like an extension of where Suikoden left off and one of the games highlights for me is seeing all of the returning cast members and conclusions to some of their character arcs in the sequel. Only Suikogaiden really has a similar vibe from what little I've played, whereas the later entries have legacy style callbacks to the other entries but never quite got it like these first two did.

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Suikoden is based on a Chinese Novel of the same name and means Water Margin roughly. The novel is the story of a 108 men and women who band together in the water marshes to become bandits and fight the corrupt government institutes that led them all to forsake the system. I have actually read a decent chunk of the book and it's pretty good as it tells each characters individual story of their fall from grace in society and having to start a life of crime to get by. From these elements, Suikoden the series is largely about a person who bands together 108 like minded individuals to help them either fight a corrupt regime, or save their homeland from an outside invader. One of the major framing devices for this series are the 27 True Runes which are physical and sentient embodiment of the power that runs the world. All magic is derivative of the true runes, and the true runes grant immortality and agelessness to the bearer, but the runes power comes at a cost as the runes usually place a heavy burden of destiny on those who use them.

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Quick plot rundown for those who haven't played the series, and then I'll get into the nitty gritty. Suikoden is the story of Tir McDohl, the son of the Great General Teo McDohl of the Scarlet Moon Empire. The empire has finally gotten back on it's feet after a devastating civil war caused by a succession crisis when the former emperor chose his younger son to succeed him over his eldest. The scars of war still linger in some parts of the land but Emperor Barbarossa has largely returned the empire to one of prosperity along with his Six Great Generals. The story begins when Tir officially joins the imperial army and is put under the care of the corrupt Bureaucrat Kraze. As Tir and his entourage complete tasks for the empire, they slowly come to realize that while the capital is rather content, the surrounding towns and regions are suffering from over taxation and corrupt officials abusing their power. A Liberation Army has formed to counter these grievances but is much too small to do anything about it. On one mission, the group encounters a terrible beast they can't possibly stop until Tir's best friend, the mysterious Ted reveals that he is in possession of the Soul Eater, the True Rune of Life and Death. When Ted is ratted out to the upper members of the imperials, it turns out that the Court Magician Windy is actually looking for the rune and she has Ted nearly killed in order to get it. Knowing he can't escape her grasp, Ted transfers the Rune to Tir and asks him to leave the capital. Now a fugitive, Tir allies himself with the small Liberation Army. He quickly becomes friends with their leader who is trying to get Tir to join their cause when she is finally killed in a raid. Her dying wish is for Tir to continue the cause. Recruiting her brother, Mathiu, the famous Tactician (comically mistranslated as Surgeon in the game for some reason) Tir begins to build the Liberation Army from a rag tag group of misfits into a major force for reform.

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Suikoden II takes place a years after the first game in the western countries of the City States of Jowstown and the Highland Kingdom. Highland had been fighting an unsuccessful war against their southern rivals of the City States for a number of years and both sides grew tired of the conflict and had finally decided to sign a peace treaty to end the war. Riou and his best friend Jowy are members of the Unicorn Brigade, a youth military unit created by Highland to boost morale but never really fought in the main conflict. Jowy comes from a prestigious family in their hometown whom he secretly hates, whereas Riou is an orphan raised with another orphan named Nanami by a disgraced former general named Genkaku. The night before the peace treaty is signed, the unit is attacked by soldiers of the City States and are largely slaughtered, realizing their commanding officer's command to retreat down the only road to escape is a bad call, the two boys backtrack to the camp where they discover that the "attack" was actually a false flag operation led by Highland's own Prince Luca as a means to fire back up Highland's desire for war against the City States and to keep the war going. The boys barely escape the attack and soon are separated after jumping down a waterfall to escape pursuit. Riou is rescued by a band of mercenaries working for the City State of Muse. Riou is thought to be a spy and put to work on meager chores until he is eventually rescued by Jowy who was rescued by a kind family from a town not to far.

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The two return to their homeland but are captured and tried as spies and traitors working for the City-States in order to conceal the truth they know. They are rescued by the mercenaries Riou had met and are smuggled back across the border by them. Here they witness firsthand the depths of cruelty that Luca Blight has in store for the City States as he has no intention of conquering his enemies, he seeks to genocide the entire population. The two boys decide to join the mercenaries to stop the war but find the City States are a dysfunctional group where every nation is more concerned about their own priorities and old grudges to actually recognize the real threat Luca Blight is. The City States begin to fall one by one. The boys end up devising very different means of stopping the war, which ultimately finds them on opposing sides in the conflict in order to bring the war to an end.

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The original Suikoden is such an odd game when I think about it. The original concept for Suikoden story would eventually become the more popular sequel Suikoden II, but in an odd moment of brilliant foresight, the developers knew their total lack of experience in developing RPGs would hinder their ability to live up to the stories intricate nature, so instead they wrote up a different plot that became this game and used it as a test run to work out all of their ideas and build their experience. From a narrative perspective, Suikoden jumps back and forth between brilliance and hokey cliche storms. You have to deal with Tolkein-esque Dwarves and Elves conflicts, fruity French stereotypes, and a goddamn Dracula expy. On the flip side, there are some powerful moments of betrayals, noble sacrifices, characters dealing with war crimes, and Tir's climatic conflict with his father.

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So the game really goes back and forth between some great writing and feeling irrelevant. Not helping is the fact the game has some awesome background narrative introduced in a few production manuals, the novelization, and a series of short stories that give lots of background info about the Succession War, Odessa's background, the Kelekka Incident, the history of the McDohl household including Gremio's past, Pahn's past, Ted's past and more; yet all of it is left in supplemental material that never made it out of Japan so yeah...the game still feels like a 16-bit RPG trying to be really epic and not always succeeding. Granted, I'm making this sound worse than it really is, Suikoden's plot is still fairly enjoyable but I don't want to mislead you into thinking it's so great it can stand alone in my top ten. In truth, if I had done the games individually, Suikoden would be somewhere in my 60s. A good game marred by an amateurish design that has not aged as well as I would have hoped. Still it has these profound moments like with the characterization of Emperor Barbarossa, a man who actually shows up only three times in the game, but proves to be such a well rounded figure who subverts the usual evil emperor role that he comes across as one of the game's most tragic figures. His final scene really places a different spin on the whole war and transitions the conflict from a corrupt empire to one simply by one figure manipulating the system for their own ends. He comes across like Czar Nicholas II of Russia, who was considered to be a very personable figure who allowed his personal domestic issues to blind him to the real troubles of his empire and see him lose everything. Of all the villains of the series, Barbarossa was the most human to me.

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Course it's when you take the game as an action packed prologue to Suikoden II that I feel the game really shines. Twenty three characters from Suikoden return in this game as playable characters and at least a dozen more make cameos. In truth Suikoden 1's ending is rather bittersweet, even with the best ending since it leaves so many questions unanswered but Suikoden II ends up actually putting those questions to rest and some of the game's most powerful moments for me are when old allies reunite. This is not to say Suikoden II can't stand alone on its own merits. Far from it actually, most of the callbacks create a nice cohesion and fill in some backstory for people, but none of that is needed to enjoy Suikoden II's standalone story. The best way I could put it is that you can appreciate the history concerning WWII without really delving into WWI history, but knowing that background creates a clearer picture of the events. despite that, between the two, Suikoden II has the superior writing and design.

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The politics are more complex, there is less emphasis on traditional and overused fantasy cliches, the villains and antagonists are largely played more straight and serious with the exception of returning villain Neclord who is still hammy as ever. What I really have to give my respect for is that Luca Blight is a pretty straight omnicidal maniac which is kind of a dime a dozen in the medium, but he's shown in such a ruthless and frightening way that despite being one of the more straight evil characters in the series he is truly effective. The boss battle with him alone may be one of the best boss battles in the series and is up there with Magus in CT as one of the coolest boss battles in an RPG. There is almost an interesting parallel to the Battletech franchise here as a major part of Suikoden II's conflict really comes down to the petty squabbles among the City States despite facing a common enemy. Much like the Clan conflict of Battletech, the City-States have to be almost completely conquered before they wake up to realize how serious of a threat Luca Blight really is. It was kind of amusing to learn in Suikoden III that Tinto, easily the biggest pricks of the City States, wound up seceding from the Dunan Republic that forms by the end of SII because they were pretty selfish bastards and didn't get along with anyone. I mean they only end up helping Riou's cause because Riou saves them from an unrelated incident from the war and the Mayor of Tinto owed him.

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This in itself is a large part of why I love the Suikoden series, because it's hard to find a make-believe world function so close to real world politics and history. A minor conflict in SII is the bad blood between the cities of South Window and Tinto over territory they lost to the Toran Republic (the nation formed by McDohl from the remnants of the Scarlet Moon Empire) which itself is a callback to an event from the first game, because your strategist defeats one of the Great Generals by temporarily allying with the City States of Jowston to attack his region at the same time as the Liberation Army, Mathiu ultimately saying that the land lost to the invaders would be taken back later, and that "later" is the event that caused the falling out between the two City State members. It's that level of continuity that makes this series so unique and interesting. I think only Front Mission has ever come close to the same level of detail and even that series tends to be way more coy about it's interconnected nature. While the Highland City State conflict has it's own unique history, the actual Dunan Unification War winds up being nearly lost and won thanks to unrelated events from the first game showing one of the unique ways how history kind of ebbs and flows like in real life.

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Also, unlike FFtactics, Suikoden I and II does a better job of making sure the human drama stays upfront as opposed to the Rune being the central plot element. The Soul Eater begins the conflict in the first game but doesn't really come into play outside of the beginning and ends of the game, the Rune of Beginnings in SII feel more like a plot excuse as to how some nobody 16 year old orphan ends up leading a major war. They are a means to an end. McDohl has to face struggles within the Liberation Army by former members under Odessa, he deals with traitors to the cause, the death of close allies and friends, and he ends up facing off against his own father over political values. Riou faces being betrayed by his own homeland and having to find a new life in a foreign land that hates him, he deals with political infighting, genocides, assassinations, and ultimately comes into conflict with his own best friend who is fighting for the same thing as him. This is what makes the series so great, it's the human element of it's conflicts that make the stories compelling. The True Runes draw you in but it's the characters and the historical backdrop that make you stay.

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I think I've rambled enough on this, for me Suikoden has always felt like a hard sell to other people. The games are kind of on the easy side, the "collect 108 characters" sounds more daunting than it really is, the games kind of look low value compared to flashier and prettier games in the genre, and historical drama style plots are pretty niche in the genre as well. Perhaps part of this also stems from my own experience with the franchise. I found out about it in a magazine preview that I showed a friend. They picked it up and ended up really loving the game so when I finally got my own PS1, they lent it to me. I was not terribly impressed at first, especially coming off FFTactics and Xenogears, but I stuck to it and ended up really enjoying the game. I vaguely remember playing the sequel he lent me a year or so later but my interest in the series didn't start up until I got the third entry which really made me want to retrace the older installments. I got the first game in a bargain bin along with P2: EP at EB Games and was annoyed that Suikoden II was just too damn expensive to get a copy of. I finally acquired it by taking advantage of some Amazon gift cards a few years back and I seriously sat down and played the trilogy again to great satisfaction. It's definitely one of those franchises I end up liking a little more every time I play it and my only gripe nowadays is finding people to really talk to about the series. I work on the series Wiki but it's not really the same as a forum experience sadly. So I guess what I'm saying is that I need more of you to bite the bullet and pick up the series.

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Coming Up: Link... Zelda is your...

krissy

10-16-2017, 01:24 AM

SHE'S YOUR LINK TO YOU PAST BUDDY WINK WINK

Raistlin

10-16-2017, 02:24 AM

Cheater. :mad2:

Though I'm vindicated in my prediction that S1 was by itself not top-10 material. 60s sounds fair. Yes, SII is largely a continuation of SI and not just story-wise; SII took everything SI did, but did it better. It's a great example of a development team learning from and building on its prior efforts. But it's also an entirely separate game (I actually played it first, randomly finding it for next-to-nothing at a Gamestop in the late '90s before it became a cult hit).

SII remains my favorite overall game. It's a wonderful story and amazing characters. You have the intricate story of power between nations and backstabbing politicians, but also the more personal story of the endearing relationship between Riou-Namami-Jowy (and Pilika). I love how the True Rune supernatural stuff is basically just used to create a little mystical aura and air of mystery over events, but the focus remains entirely on the actual people. It's not about saving the world, but about saving your home and loved ones. The music doesn't have any of the powerful individual scores of some of the top FF titles, but each song seems to fit the environment perfectly and helps draw you in. Sure, it's on the easy side (though Luca Blight is very imposing on a first playthrough), but if you play JRPGs primarily for the storytelling, then SII needs to be near of the top of your list.

...my only gripe nowadays is finding people to really talk to about the series. I work on the series Wiki but it's not really the same as a forum experience sadly. So I guess what I'm saying is that I need more of you to bite the bullet and pick up the series.

I'm pretty sure I can talk (and have talked) about Suikoden enough for multiple people. :shobon:

I've had the urge for a little while to do a new playthrough, but starting chronologically from SIV. If I end up doing that, I'll start a new thread for each game that I'm playing.

Pumpkin

10-16-2017, 02:29 AM

I play the Sweekodens too

Wolf Kanno

10-16-2017, 06:52 AM

Fynn

10-16-2017, 08:10 AM

I need to get into Suikoden someday. I actually have I on my Vita, I just haven't felt like it yet.

I do have a pretty good idea of what number 1 will be!

(I am also fairly certain Persona 4 won't be on this list, since we've already covered 5 and 2 and WK has gone on record saying he likes both better than 4. I think. But 3 is very likely to show up!)

And yay for FFT!

Eight games left, here's my speculations on some of them:

Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Chrono Trigger
Final Fantasy VI
SMT: Nocturne
Xenogears
Persona 3

And that's all I've got, since I'm really not sure what the non-RPG entries might be since WK and I pretty much talk only about JRPGs. I am pretty much certain my JRPG prediction is 100% accurate though and if I'm wrong about this, I'll probably eat my shoe or something.

Judging by what the others said, though I'd assume the non-RPG entries are MGS 3 and Mega Man 2. I have played neither series, but considering entries from both have showed up on this list already, they're a pretty safe bet, I think.

Pumpkin

10-16-2017, 01:03 PM

The chef minigame in II is the best thing and I am sad there's so little of it

BUT I ALSO LOVE CASTING FOR THE PLAYS IN III!!!!

Fun story, when I was younger I had a crush on SIII Luc. I think it was the hair, I dunno

Del Murder

10-16-2017, 07:39 PM

I wonder if I would have liked Suikoden more if I had played it when it first came out rather than the last couple years.

krissy

10-16-2017, 11:13 PM

suikoden 2 did character death right btw

you can fix it through equipment management

IMMERSION

Raistlin

10-17-2017, 02:13 AM

Though I will say now, that as much as I love the plays in SIII, Tai Ho's Iron Chef competition in SII is still my favorite minigame in the series. Though I also love the tile game in SIV as well, that thing is addicting.

That game is so stupid and campy, but I love it. I have to complete it every time I play the game, which is one of the many reasons that, despite how many times I've played this damn game, I have never actually completed the Clyde speed-run.

I wonder if I would have liked Suikoden more if I had played it when it first came out rather than the last couple years.

The game still holds up very well to me, but that could be some nostalgia talking. And I can see it, like many JRPGs with teenage main characters, having a bigger impact on teenage players rather than 30-year-olds.

Wolf Kanno

10-17-2017, 05:33 PM

Sorry for the delay, I've had a few things crop up in the last few days that has taken away my time to really write up the next entry. I'll trry to have something posted either later today or tomorrow the latest.

Psychotic

10-17-2017, 05:52 PM

I really, really, really, hope you make FFVII #1 just to see what Fynn does!

smurfing hell you're going to do MGS3 though and I'm going to get feels. Don't talk about the feels. Don't do it. :colbert: I'm watching the Peace Walker ending now just to stop the feels and now I'm having different feels.

krissy

10-17-2017, 07:10 PM

Fynn

10-17-2017, 07:10 PM

Psy making me the strawman FFVII hater is the saddest thing because I still really like FFVII

If anythinh, it's WK himselfwhokeeps saying how all those games on his list did X thing VII also did, better ;p So he'd really be driving himself crazy with that way more than he would me

Psychotic

10-17-2017, 07:16 PM

Oh I'm just more thinking of using it as ammo in our various FFVII related banter as a trump card. "Aha, but Wolf Kanno said :smug:" is a pretty good closer.

...of course, he will not say that, but until #1 is revealed a man can live in a blissfully ignorant dream.

Fynn

10-17-2017, 07:25 PM

i mean, whatever makes you happy

theundeadhero

10-17-2017, 10:04 PM

If WK makes FFVII his favorite game of all time I will literally, and technologically?, ignore him.

Del Murder

10-17-2017, 10:07 PM

I will never ignore anyone who puts FFVII as their favorite game of all time. Now if you put some obscure Japanese game featuring giant robots as your favorite...

Wolf Kanno

10-17-2017, 10:54 PM

You guys are making me worried I'm going to be losing friends over this list. ^^;

Slothy

10-17-2017, 11:23 PM

I still love you canoe.

Raistlin

10-18-2017, 12:07 AM

I will never ignore anyone who puts FFVII as their favorite game of all time. Now if you put some obscure Japanese game featuring giant robots as your favorite...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Kidou_Senshi_Z-Gundam_Hot_Scramble_Cover.jpg

theundeadhero

10-18-2017, 01:33 AM

;)

Fynn

10-18-2017, 05:50 AM

Wolf, its thing like these that teach you who your real friends are

me

Wolf Kanno

10-18-2017, 07:46 AM

Wolf Kanno

10-18-2017, 08:44 AM

8.
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In the ancient past, three Goddesses created the land of Hyrule and the Sacred Realm. As a sign of their pact with the people of Hyrule, they left behind a fragment of their powers in the form of the Triforce and left them in the Sacred Realm to bathe Hyrule in their light. Yet many coveted the power of the Triforce and soon conflicts arose due to its power. A long time before the game started, a desert bandit named Ganondorf fought his way into the Sacred Realm and obtained the Triforce. His evil heart twisted the Sacred Realm into a dark world. To stop the new godlike Ganon from conquering Hyrule as well, the Seven Sages and the Hylian Knights fought Ganon's forces and succeeded in sealing him and his minions into the Sacred Realm, to be forgotten in all but Legend. Yet ages later Hyrule finds itself in terrible peril from the elements, only to be saved by the mysterious priest Agahnim. This miracle gave the priest easy access to the royalty of Hyrule and soon murmurs begin that he had usurped the throne and taken over the kingdom. He used the royal guard to hunt down the descendants of the Seven Sages, and he performed dark rituals that people were afraid to speak aloud. One fateful stormy night, Link is awakened by a voice from a woman, calling him to the castle. He sees his uncle arm himself with his old shield and armor preparing to leave. Link questions him of his actions, but the uncle assures him everything is fine and asks him to stay home. Still bothered by his dream and his uncle's strange behavior, Link sneaks into Hyrule Castle only to find his uncle mortally wounded. The voice had been calling both of them and belonged to Princess Zelda. Tasked with her rescue, Link battles his way to the dungeon and frees her. They escape to a local sanctuary where Zelda informs Link that Agahnim is a servant of darkness trying to break the seal of the Seven Sages. With Zelda as the last sage left, Link must seek out three artifacts that represent the three goddesses as proof of his worthiness to obtain the legendary Master Sword, which is said to be the only weapon capable of defeating evil. From here, Link's journey begins...

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It is difficult to really know where to begin discussing Link to the Past, we've reached another iconic title by Nintendo, and the one that ultimately laid down the groundwork for every entry that came afterwards until Breath of the Wild finally changed the formula again. That shows how important this game was and how well-recieved its design was that if was left unchanged for over twenty five years by Nintendo. After the success of the original Legend of Zelda, the design team went to work on its sequel. Miyamoto and the team chose to keep some of the original's key elements of exploration, engaging dungeons, and myriad of secrets to uncover throughout the game like the original. Yet the team decided to move the game into a new direction by creating a game more focused on combat, a more traditional RPG elements likely inspired by Dragon Quests success, and giving better direction by implementing RPG standards like towns full of NPCs to give hints and context to the player.Anyone who has played Zelda II: Link's Adventure will tell you how successful that was for them, but for those who haven't played it, even Miyamoto himself discusses the game with a sense of regret as he felt the game came out half-baked at best. The radical change from a top down open world to a more traditional RPG with an Action-RPG battle system didn't exactly fly well with fans of the original. The game was still successful, but for reasons never stated (or I simply never bothered to research) Miyamoto and Nintendo chose to close out the NES era with only two Zelda titles. The franchise would stay dormant until the very early 90s when Nintendo would launch their new console, the Super Nintendo.

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The success and accolades thrown at Super Mario World may have helped Nintendo with the idea of dusting off their most popular IPs from their first console to help launch their new system straight into the stratosphere of success, and with that Miyamoto finally came back to The Legend of Zelda. What I find interesting about this game in hindsight is how much of a marriage it is of the previous two entries. From just looking at the game in action or casual play, it would seem like the Zelda team simply back peddled away from Zelda II and basically decided to update the winning formula of the original, but that's not completely true. In stead I'd argue that LttP inherited a lot of the positive elements from Zelda II and married them to the core gameplay of the original. It only takes playing the first ten minutes of all three games to really understand what I'm talking about here.The opening I described at the beginning of this game is really the opening twenty minutes of LttP, which is a powerful narrative force to guide the player towards a direction, which is not too different from Zelda II where your first task is to find the first town from Hyrule Castle and talk to all the NPCs to finally get an idea of what's actually going on and what you should be doing. LttP is far more RPG in its structure than the first game. Likewise, despite most of its context being relegated to the manual as well, Zelda II has a more robust narrative than the first Zelda title did, and LttP continues that trend as well which can both be seen within the game and in its manual as well. What's even more interesting here is realizing from these sources that LttP is a prequel to the original games, and serves to finally establish a mythology for the franchise. While causal Zelda fans may believe that Ganon's backstory was told in Ocarina of Time, the truth is that LttP established his backstory originally, even the fact he was a desert bandit and originally named Ganondorf. LttP finally breathed a real sense of scale and mystique to the Zelda series, establishing an origin for the Triforce and Ganon, as well as introducing the concept of the Goddesses and the Master Sword. LttP is less of aimlessly exploring a large world desperately destroying everything in the landscape in the hopes of finding an item or clue to your next task, but instead is a hero's journey to explore the past of a land finally given life.

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Now mechanically speaking, LttP brings us back to the original game's design with a top down view and simple combat that can be augmented by the various tools and items discovered over the course of your journey, but oddly enough, the game kept Zelda II's idea of giving Link magic. Its been retooled to work with the classic formula in mind, but its nice that Link has far more combat options than the first game did. Even weapons like the hammer made it back to the game as well. I also appreciate the splitting of differences about sword upgrades. Link only really changes weapons once in the game, but the Master Sword can be further upgraded twice by undergoing important quests or discovering the right people to further upgrade. This gives a nice upgrade feeling to Link's arsenal without diminishing the story significance of the Master Sword. In fact, the very idea that Link can undergo quests in this game is actually pretty interesting and feels closer to the rudimentary idea of it used in Zelda II. Likewise, LttP drops the idea of pure exploration items like the Ladder and Raft from the first game, and generally makes sure that most of their items serve multiple functions. Items like the Hookshot and the Dash Boots can be both used to expand Link's mobility while also adding to his arsenal of moves to deal with all the monsters he has to fight. This ends up making items feel more important than previous installments as well and adds a better sense of progression for the player than the original.

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So now that I've bored you to death with all the old ideas LttP revamped, let's finally discuss the elements LttP brought to the series. It primarily comes down to game/story structure as well as the idea of themed dungeons and bosses based around a gimmick. Finally, the game introduces a major gimmick that becomes crucial to completing the game.Let's get the easy one out of the way first. LttP introduces the idea of themed dungeons based around using the item treasure to explore it thoroughly. The concept isn't terribly new as the previous two games did it to much lesser extent, but here its front and center. Since Hyrule has finally been given more of a concept of landscape than its predecessors, it made sense to really play around with it here. The structure of these dungeons are really fun and interesting because you basically have to push your way around to find every possible path without the dungeon's key item, before you finally find it and it completely unlocks the rest of the dungeon, making the second half of the dungeon a fun breeze as you finally have the means to reach those hard to get to places. Some bosses even require the token dungeon item to be used to win, but that element didn't completely come into play until Link's Awakening. LttP is cool in the fact that the bosses still have a variety of ways to be beaten, my personal favorite being the Moth boss from the Swamp Dungeon that can be easily taken down by launching captured bees at it. Turtle Rock's boss even has the distinction of requiring an optional overworld item to take them down easier which you almost never see in the series anymore. This new format ends up making the dungeons not only feel more distinct from each other visually, but also more interesting as they become more of a puzzle now for the player to overcome. I feel a big difference between the dungeons in LttP vs. ones from the first two entries is that the first two game's dungeons are often more memorable for personal experiences like getting rubbed out quickly the first time Wizzrobes pop up, or the player banging their head on trying to find the Hidden Temple as opposed to the dungeon layout itself or some interesting facet of it like the Blind Dungeon in Dark World.

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The other two distinct elements go hand in hand. The introduction of a two part quest structure and the major gimmick that ties it all together. In the case of the quest structure, we're introduced to Zelda's main narrative which is always Link discovering and getting embroiled with the problems of Hyrule at the beginning, and then being tasked with tracking down the means to save it, usually culminating in the acquisition of the Master Sword itself. From here, Link now has a means to fight back against the evil, but discovers he'll need to collect another major artifact in order to finally have his real showdown with Ganon. For LttP, Link's initial quest is to find the items to show his worthiness to wield the Master Sword and obtain it. His second quest involves him plunging into the Dark World to rescue the Seven Sages to prevent Ganon's return. With few exceptions, every major Zelda title follows a formula similar to this. Framing all of this together is the game's core gimmick, in the case of LttP, the shifting between the Light and Dark Realms which takes advantage of geographical differences between the similar worlds to progress. What's truly unique about this gimmick, and likely why later installments like to re-use variations of it, is the fact that this essentially doubled the scope of the game by having Link traverse two different maps. When you really think about it, the limited graphics of the NES entries allowed for larger maps, I feel its safe to say the map to Zelda 1 is easily larger than the map for the standard Hyrule in LttP, but this Light/Dark gimmick ended up allowing the SNES incarnation to have just as much room to explore. It's also helped that the game is just more dense in terms of secrets and content like mini-games and engaging NPCs to deal with like the Zoras or the Magic Potion Witch. Not to mention that this adds a new layer of puzzle to the game as you try to figure out how to get around geographical hiccups by switching back and forth between the worlds. It was an incredibly novel concept in 1991 for Zelda. The smaller maps also made it easier to remember between the two and the map themselves have a bit more visual markers to help players distinguish between them to make this gimmick puzzle work really well, so the smaller world actually works better overall.

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In my original write-up, I felt I mostly tried my best to convey how important this game was to the Zelda franchise despite being overlooked by its N64 successors. For this new one, I hope I was able to convey how much LttP is really the Zelda team taking the best elements of its predecessors and building something truly fun and innovative for a new generation, which is really how I feel sequels should work. For me, it's no real surprise that this game held such a major impact on the rest of the franchise, and my mic dropping moment for all of this is simply the fact that it has the best Zelda Commercial ever.
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Coming Up Next: In the year 20XX...

I've been having issues writing this entry. I mean where do you begin? Like other major Nintendo games on this list, I feel like it's hard coming up with why this game is so awesome because it's pretty obvious. A Link to the Past made Zelda. I know there were two entries before it and they were pretty damn good games in their own right, but everything people know and expect from a Zelda title appeared in this game first. Nintendo has effectively been remaking this game with a different gimmick for the last 26 years, that's how smurfing good it is. So I find myself a bit besides myself needing to justify this entry being here.

One thing I can say is that one of the things that really drew me into this entry was a manga adaption of the story written and drawn by Shotaro Ishinomori, the author of Cyborg 009 and it was published in Nintendo Power magazine back in the day. To this day, that version of the story partly plays in my head when I play through this game. From the fairy companion to Link conversing with Zelda to the bittersweet ending. The manga left quite an impression on me and was one of the many things that endeared this game to me. I will also say that Nintendo seems to have been influenced by it as well since several elements show up in later installments like Link transforming into a wolf like creature in the Dark World, a heavier emphasis on a deeper bond between Link and Zelda, the DW has a moon with a face on it, even the climatic battle was partially re-used in Wind Waker for the match against Ganondorf, and it kind of started the trend of bittersweet endings in the series. If you haven't had a chance to read it, you should check it out.

In truth, A Link to the Past was a game that crossed over from the bare bones plots of the NES era that simply had you wandering all across Hyrule until you found something, into a story that made you feel like you were embarking on an adventure. What makes it unique from the games that came after it is that ALttP still retains several of the most open elements that had defines the earlier installments. It feels like a marriage between the original and the new RPG like elements that Zelda II introduced. You're not just given a simple task, you start the quest answering a call from Zelda, get caught up in an evil scheme that makes you a criminal. traverse the world for the three artifacts to prove your worth, lose Zelda, gain the Master Sword, storm Hyrule castle, lose Zelda again but slay the villain, only to find out he's not the real enemy and you must explore a new dark version of the world with more dungeons and dangers to rescue seven sages before fighting Ganon for the Triforce. It doesn't take rocket science to see how that feels so damn epic compared to "travel Hyrule to find the Shrine/Palaces to gain the Triforce so you can save Zelda" which had been the plot of the earlier installments. ALttP made Zelda, Link, and Ganon feel like real people, I mean you get to meet Zelda right off the bat for once and she actually speaks with you throughout the game. ALttP also transformed Hyrule into a real place and not just some fantasy land nonsense. It was given a history which you explore and it makes your actions feel like it has some more weight to it. Finding a creepy guy who wants to hand you a sword if you have enough hearts can certainly stir your imagination, but it felt so cool actually undertaking a quest to retrieve THE sword. You can even power the damn thing up which was pretty epic. This might be my main love for this game, it gave narrative purpose to the franchise.

Even the dungeons have largely become legacy elements such as a Water Temple involving the hookshot and hitting switches to change the water elevation. The Ice Dungeon was the first dungeon to pull the whole multi-story dungeon where you have to climb to the top so you can drop down to the basement levels to fight the boss. It even has cool story type dungeons like the Thieves Hideout and Blind the Thief who turned out to be a really clever boss fight. The Hookshot, Mirror Shield, Bottles, swimming gear, and the damn Master Sword all made their debut in this game. We witness the transition from the Silver/Light arrows being Ganon's weakness to the Master Sword itself. The gameplay was expanded to incorporate better NPCs with more personality, better sidequests, mini-games, and the pieces of heart became the ultimate finders keeper quest. The brilliant way the game utilized the transition from the Light World and Dark World for puzzle solving has frankly never been matched by any future mechanic in the series. It was a key element to actually beating the game and mastery was the only way to achieve pure completion.

Fynn

10-18-2017, 09:22 AM

ONE MORE GOD REJECTED

(too soon?)

Link to the Past may be my favorite Zelda game so far as well. Definitely a memorable experience.

Skyblade

10-18-2017, 09:31 AM

Link Between Worlds is better, though.

Fynn

10-18-2017, 09:39 AM

Eh, idk. It has a lot of interesting concepts and is a fantastic game in many ways. But it's still standing on the shoulders of a giant. There would be no Link Between Worlds without Link to the Past, and frankly, the best parts of LBW are still lifted straight from LttP.

Pumpkin

10-18-2017, 04:38 PM

Still haven't played this but I do have it

Del Murder

10-18-2017, 07:06 PM

Well excuuuuuuse me, princess.

Wolf Kanno

10-20-2017, 10:24 PM

7.
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Let me set the stage for you, my family is celebrating my birthday at Pizza Hut and most of the adults are chatting away about the election and whether George Bush would have the chance to beat Bill Clinton. I on the other hand could care less about the election and the party, I just want to go home because one of the games I've wanted for a long time has finally come into my grasp. Mega Man 2 was a game I was introduced to years before at a game store in the mall I frequent. Having grown up on Mario and arcade beat em ups, the concept of choosing the boss you want to fight and gaining their weapon as a power up was a completely novel approach to games I had never really thought of. I had my dad rent this game for me countless times, and finally for my birthday, he got it for me.
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The series had already jumped to the fourth entry by this point, but I was in love with MM2. The music, the boss stages, and it was the one I was the most familiar with. Playing through the series a bit a few years back lead me to discover why I love it so much. The game was a massive improvement over the original. In an almost Assassin's Creed like way, MM2 was a major improvement over it's innovative original by fixing all of the problems the game had. Better bosses, better designed stages, better weapons, improved game balance and difficulty curve, and far more original ideas for stages. I mean we remember the disappearing block puzzles from the first game, but I often find people remember them more in MM2 for the infamous Heat Man stage. Quick Man's laser gauntlet has been reused several times in the franchise and even to this day, the Metal Blades are considered to be the greatest boss weapon Mega Man has ever acquired.
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For me, I feel MM2 ultimately cemented the Mega Man formula, and every sequel has sort of just felt like minor incremental advances on that solid foundation, even some later features technically debuted in MM2 such as Rush just being a glorified version of the Special Item tools, and the Charged Mega Buster coming from the Atomic Fire weapons charge ability. Hell, almost every entry has had a shield weapon since Wood Man's Leaf Shield. An interesting element MM2 kind of introduced was the idea of bosses having multiple weaknesses which allowed this entry to have more variation on how you approach boss order. I usually leave Crash Man and Quick Man for last, but I've tackled all the other bosses in several different orders. I've even done playthroughs where I left Metal Man for last just so I didn't over rely on his broken weapon. This element of the game always makes it feel fresh to me as opposed to other entries that sometimes follow the weapon exploitation formula a little too strictly, leaving little variation in playthroughs.
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This game also just has my overall favorite set of bosses. Perhaps not the best set in terms of challenge granted, but I love the weapons they give, their designs and stages. Not to mention the rocking soundtrack they are all put to. In fact MM2 might be the best score in the franchise, including later series like X, Zero, and Battle Network. One cruise through Overclock Remix will show that this entry gets way more love than the others and even Capcom tends to recycle music from this entry far more often than others. It may even be my favorite video game score, that's how much I love it.
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Another feature I love is the feel of storming Wily's Castle. I mean the first stage blasting through the barriers and climbing the walls only to be chased down by a massive mecha dragon all while this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFKtYCcMWT4) is playing. If you think cinematic gaming began in the PlayStation era, you have obviously not really checked what the best the classics had to offer. To this day, the Wily Stages from MM2 are my favorite and the bosses from those stages still stand out to me more than even Yellow Devil.
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While my love for the X series is far greater than the classic franchise, I spent a good chunk of my childhood idolizing this game that always seemed to be out of my reach and while I've dabbled in the later installments, none of them could ever catch my attention like this darling did. Like most of my top ten, this is a game that is not only never far from my mind, but I genuinely have to talk myself out of playing so I can focus on all the cool new stuff I haven't touched I have stacked around me.
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Coming up next: Memento Mori

Skyblade

10-21-2017, 01:23 AM

Aw, yes. #6 is a good place for P3. It would go higher if the pacing and gameplay reached the peak that the characters and writing did.

I never got in to MegaMan until the X series. And I only really played the first and third, though I did really like them. Battle Network one and three were my favorite games featuring MegaMan, though.

Fynn

10-21-2017, 06:14 AM

Aw yesh can't wait for the next one!

Wolf Kanno

10-22-2017, 08:33 AM

6.

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Persona 3 was a game that ultimately surprised me. I had just finished Persona 2 Eternal Punishment, and I really wanted more and to my luck, I heard Atlus had finally announced a new entry for the franchise. When I heard it was going to have dating sim type elements and randomly generated dungeons, I was pretty skeptical and the initial trailers and screenshots looked far too clean and pure anime over the more edgy and light horror elements of P2 and even P1 surprisingly enough. Yet when I finally got a hold of the game and dived in, I found many of my fears were unfounded and was completely caught off guard by one of the best designed games I had the joy of playing for some time.

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You play a resident Marty Stu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu) who has just moved back to his hometown of Tatsumi Port Island, an artificial island with a bustling metropolis and the prestigious Gekkouken High School. Asked to transfer into a mixed Dorm Room and making a pact with a mysterious boy, the MC becomes aware of the Dark Hour, a mysterious "extra hour" of the day that takes place between Midnight and 12:01 where people transform into coffins, the streets are filled blood, and monstrous creatures called Shadows stalk the few people who did not change. Most people are unaware of the phenomena, but the people of your dorm are. They formed a special group called S.E.E.S who fight back against the Shadows by using a power called Persona, a physical manifestation of a person's mind that takes the form of mythical and cultural beings that allows them to wield psychic powers to fight the Shadows.

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During the day, your a mild mannered high school student, attending classes, making friends, joining club activities and trying to live a normal life. At night you travel to Tartarus, a hellish tower the school takes the form of during the Dark Hour and the possible source of all the Shadows. What connections do the tower and school share and what is at the top of the tower? How much does the Kirijo Group, the industrialist family that invested in the building of the town know about the Shadows? Why are major shadows starting to appear around town during the full moon? What does your character have the power to wield more than one Persona and is connected to the boy who visits you during the Dark Hour? What is the Fall the boy speaks of and what does he mean when he says you only have one year left?

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Persona 3 marked the reboot of the Persona franchise from character driven but still essentially the typical SMT formula games into the popular cash cow franchise most of you know it as now by combining a watered down press turn system with RG- Dungeons, and social sim gameplay. Yet I'll be honest when I say that I'm a bit sad when I look at the franchise now because it's simply mimicking the popular bits without understanding the brilliant artistic weaving of the story, themes, and gameplay functions which ultimately keep this game standing out to me compared to the titles that came after it. P3 doesn't just appeal to me as a gamer, it appeals to me as a designer and artist.

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Gameplay is split between daytime social sim activities and nighttime activities that can either be more social sim activity or you can choose to dungeon crawl through Tartarus and play with more typical RPG shenanigans. Yet you time is limited, you only have so many days to move forward and unless you are a paranoid save scummer, your choices are pretty permanent as you move forward by choosing to strengthen your bonds with characters via the social link system in order to get better bonuses with persona you create, or by simply leveling and gaining money in Tartarus to make you stronger. A large part of the challenge of the game is balancing these two needs which itself is not very different from classic MegaTen where negotiating with demons was often just as important as standard battles. Yet it's important to remember that your choices are limited and a choice of screwing over a week in a particular month can hurt you later down the road.

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I'm bringing this up because this very element and the calendar system in general is based around the games central themes of Remember you will die and the meaning of life which is where the social links come into play. While most games certainly move the player towards an inevitable conclusion, Persona 3's mechanics are designed to add a layer of stress to the player to simulate this feeling of mortality. You don't necessarily feel like your going towards an ending but rather an end, and I always find it amusing and exhilarating for myself and other people I talk to about the game when you hit December and realize you have no time to complete all of your social links in time. I appreciate this sense of feeling like time is running out despite the clock of the game being pretty damn generous and the later editions of the game making it even easier to complete all of the Social Links with plenty of time.

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This perfectly illustrates the theme of Memento Mori as the game constantly reminds you that time is running out and you begin to second guess yourself about how you should spend your days. The saying "Memento Mori" can also loosely be interpreted as "Remember you are mortal/have limited time" and the saying is not some grim Game of Thrones style edgy quote, it's original intention is to invoke a sense of how important our lives are, even the stuff we think is insignificant like a lazy Saturday afternoon you choose to nap. You're suppose to remember that our lives are limited and we should make the most of every day. P3 perfectly invokes this message with both the Calendar mechanic and the story which lingers heavily on themes of death and mortality, but uses these elements to create a message about not wasting your life away and make the most of it because we only have one real shot at it.

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This is beautifully illustrated with the characters and the social links. Your entire party is wears the pain and fear of death like a cloak. The MC is revealed to have left the city after he survived a terrible car accident that resulted in him seeing both of the MCs parents killed before their eyes. Yukari is driven by the death of her father and trying to uncover what really happened to him, Akihiko is driven by the death of his sister in a fire and seeks power to protect people because he failed to save her, Shinji and Ken are both driven to emotional desperation by the death of Ken's mother, Mitsuru and Junpei both see first hand the tragedy of watching loved ones die over the course of the plot, even the damn dog joins the team after his master is killed by a Shadow. “Death is not a hunter unbeknownst to its prey" indeed. Even the Social Links carry the theme of Memento Mori as irreversible choice. In addition to having stories based around the themes of their arcana, all of the characters in these social links struggle with making a choice that will change their lives for good and finding themselves in standstill where their lives never move forward. Magician wants to date his teacher despite the taboo, Chariot struggle to reveal an injury he's hiding, Temperance has to deal with losing his dream of being in Japan, Star has to decide if he will continue his star athlete career or find a job to support his mother and family, Sun is dealing with accepting his own eventual death from his illness. Again, the story and gameplay intertwine and reinforce the games theme so of choice, death, and life. In fact the ultimate message of the game concerning the meaning of life is simply that the bonds we make in life give it meaning. While P3 is a game heavily steeped in thematic elements of death, to misquote Raiden from the MK movie: "Persona 3 is not about death, but life."

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This kind of brings me back to a point I made earlier: What does the Calendar system and Social Links have to do with "Finding Truth" and "Social Reform" that are the central themes of P4 and P5? Not a whole lot actually, while we can argue the actual social links themselves address the themes, the concept of making bonds and the inevitable forward momentum of time have no real substantial connection to the game's overall central themes like P3 did. They are just there because it was a popular and well received mechanic that made the series stand out from their competition, and were of course expected to remain in the future installments. My problem here is that we took something so artistically brilliant and cheapened it for basic entertainment. Don't get me wrong, spending time to build a stronger bond with Kanji or helping Ms. Sadayo get out of her financial struggles are some great moments that help those games stand out, but they lack the almost cathartic feel of P3's conclusion as the MC faces the physical embodiment of death itself and reflects on the lives they have touched and touched them in return n order to find the resolve to face an impossible odd that all of the story and gameplay features had been building towards. The mechanics are not there just for the sake of novelty, they serve a narrative purpose and they tie back into the games themes. P4 and P5 never had the satisfying conclusion to them that I felt in P3, but that's because P3 was designed with a singular intent to deliver a message.

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While I know most fans are divided by the A.I. controlled companions, at least in the non-P3P versions, I came to really appreciate them because the A.I. is actually pretty smart as long as you remember to scan the enemies and I liked the thematic reason for this design choice: because the devs wanted the party to feel like individuals and not just dolls you dress up and order around. It's similar to Aggro's odd controls in Shadow of the Colossus, because Aggro isn't designed to play like a vehicle you have control over it, she's designed to play like your riding an actual horse and occasionally the horse isn't going to follow the riders orders if they know it's dangerous or stupid. It's actually amusing in P3 how the party's skill sets and A.I. behavior reinforce their personalities and behavior. Junpei's boisterous personality and lack of foresight translates to a character who will often blow all of his skill points and use risky behavior in battle. Mitsuru is more analytic and likes being prepared with buffs or weakening the enemy with status effects before going in for the kill. A lot of the game's interesting challenge is noticing these traits and building teams that help offset a characters weaknesses in both ability and temperament. Similar to BoFIII's unique battle animations for Kid Ryu, Yukari and Junpei are often more hesitant and may quiver in their speech when using the Evokers to summon their personas until they grow in levels and in the story to get more confidant. They are very interesting touches that I feel adds some cool layers to the game and I'm often sad when other players gripe about them.

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The Tired/Sick mechanic is another one that serves such a purpose as it helps to prevent the player from over-grinding and spending too much time in Tartarus. It's meant to be inefficient and a bother because the devs are challenging the player to have to risk losing real hours of game time to a MeagTen Death that could have been prevented had the player just cut their losses and left finishing the section of Tartarus for another day instead of pushing on with a sick and tired party that became more susceptible to back attacks, Critical hits, and reduced power. I fell victim to it many times but like the Risk system of Vagrant Story, it's a mechanic design to prevent the player from steamrolling over the game, something I learned through P3P's nerfing of the mechanic for the player's benefit, which makes traversing Tartarus a bit more of slog since you can complete entire blocks in a single night with the same party consequence free. Hell, the mechanic ultimately forced me to use my whole party in the early installments because tired and sick members would excuse themselves from the party and I would have to roll with the available members still ready to rumble. So like Risk before it, I came to appreciate the mechanic for forcing me to change my tactics and find new ways to work around the games challenge. I also love the user0freidnly features the game offers like letting you slit the party up to explore or have the party attack shadows for you while you explore and grab treasure chests they guard. This often makes the unnervingly massive Tartarus tower less of a chore to deal with and make doing quick money runs pretty stress free.

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Of course, not everything is perfect, The Once More system is still a fun gameplay mechanic that adds a lot of depth to standard turn base action, but coming off from Shin Megami Tensei III and Digital Devil Saga's superior Press Turn System makes you realize that the Once More system is basically a watered down experience that removes some of the higher level strategy the Press Turn system offers by largely trivializing the defensive game. The system is basically the Press Turn system on Training Wheels mode for players who get too easily flustered when you have to put more thought into tactics and get punished severely for not doing so. So while it's still better than the type of stuff series like Final Fantasy can offer, it still feels like so much less than what the mainline series had to offer.

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P3's story is great, but the pacing is both it's greatest strength and weakness depending on how you look at it. The plot moves only in two speeds: Galcier and Runaway Freight Train to Hell. The early months are incredibly slow and it often feels like the game is going by slowly as only small events here and there happen and you fall victim to a daily routine, yet this kind of works for the games theme of Memento Mori as you eventually start treating your time in the game like you would in normal life and in the latter half of the game the plot picks up greatly as one major event happens after another with little time for you and the team to be able to sit down and process it all in. It;'s only now, in this moment of crisis do you become painfully aware of how little time you have left as your party may take days to pull themselves out of depression to finally go back to visiting Tartarus or spending time for social links. Like real life, it's only in moment of peril that we become painfully aware of the fragility of it all, only when someone dies we remember that it is our own eventual fate. The pacing of the story and the action of the cast reinforce these feelings but I'll be honest that it doesn't always lend itself well to gripping narrative when you spend the first half of the game just checking off daily routines while remember to slog through Tartarus to keep your levels up for the eventual Full Moon Boss battle like it's a chore you need to check off. Yet it's also kind of brilliant watching the more subtle growth of the cast as the dialogue of the characters and various NPCs lighten up as the weeks go by. It's all subtle, but it's there and so I often feel like P3's cast has the most natural growth of character development I've seen in an RPG, because it's small but incremental, not just grandiose entrances and an occasional big scene here and there for comedic effect, though the game has plenty of those as well. I appreciate the fact the party slowly grows to trust each other and their is actual in-fighting and distrust, it helps keep the characters feeling more real and interesting unlike the more picture perfect casts of later games that often struggle with issues you want to solve with a "hug out". Yuakri is a bitch, and I love her for that. Her growth doesn't feel fake and it's more gradual and even handed. Same with Junpei who depending on the month loves you like a brother, hates you, or feels awkward around you depending on what's going on at the time.

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I've been in a lot of Persona discussions lately and the release of Persona 5 earlier this year has tested my loyalties to this particular entry. I even thought for a moment when I was getting ready to write this up that I would chalk this entry being this high for pure nostalgia and nothing more, but on better reflection and as I write this piece, I've removed the self-doubt and remember why this game shot up into my top ten list after I finished the original. It's a masterpiece of craftsmanship, and while I can concede that P3 had plenty of room to grow as a concept and the sequels jumped to say cause, none of them have ever quite grasped the majesty of this games interconnected design that just impresses the smurf out of me. If you haven't played the game, or perhaps you haven't played it in awhile, I feel maybe now would be a good time to check it out for either the first time or perhaps for the hundredth time because I feel it's safe to say the franchise has a bright future and it's important to sometimes look back on the pivotal moments in a franchises history to understand why these series become such a big deal.

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Coming Up Next: Call it what you will—A revelation from God, or a curse of the demon king. The fact remains that our world came to an end.

Fynn

10-22-2017, 10:46 AM

ONE MORE GOD REJECTED! FOR REAL THIS TIME!

And yes, just thinking about P3 brings a tear to my eye :cry: It's so good

Psychotic

10-22-2017, 09:19 PM

P3 was a pretty decent game and I think you're spot on with analysing its themes and its inter character relationship development, both really strong points.

I do disagree with the reference to GoT (I assume you're referring to Valar Morghulis there) as being grim and edgy though because the actual meaning of the phrase and its counter-phrase aren't entirely dissimilar to Memento Mori and actually has some well thought out lore behind it. Although yeah I guess if you don't know ASoIaF all that well and your sole exposure to it is people casually dropping it all over the internet I can see why you'd think that.

Pumpkin

10-22-2017, 09:51 PM

Koromaru is best

Pete for President

10-23-2017, 04:42 AM

I should try one of these persona games sometime.

Fynn

10-23-2017, 08:05 AM

KoromaruJunpei is best

Fixed that for you

Edge7

10-23-2017, 07:16 PM

Wolf Kanno

10-23-2017, 08:25 PM

Well, it's nice that someone finally sold me on P3. I'd been trying to play it for about a decade now, and I always lose interest shortly after Fuuka joins. Whenever I ask anyone why I should go back and play P3, they only ever talk about how it feels more like an SMT game than the games after it. While that's cool, I would just play SMT. You're the first person to make all of P3's mechanics feel like a cohesive whole.

It doesn't help that the original version is my brother's and the FES version I bought for the PS3 is currently at my parent's house, so I only really play it for a couple hours at a time. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and triple dip.

Also: Is the Answer worth playing? The SMT3 dungeon crawling fan in me wants to check it out, despite the fact that it probably lacks the dungeon design and intricate combat of that game.

Glad I could help.

In terms of gameplay, The Answer is significantly more challenging than the main game due to no Compendium, no social links to power up persona, and fusion requirements for certain Persona are different. The dungeons themselves are not terribly different from Tartarus, but bosses and enemy sets are now mixed with enemies with contrasting strengths and weaknesses like in P4 and 5 where you can't just spam the Ma-version of spells to get easy All-Out Attack options. From a gameplay standpoint, it's much more difficult which is partly why I liked The Answer, it has some pretty grueling boss battles as well.

Next entry will be up shortly.

Fynn

10-23-2017, 09:06 PM

skip the answer and lose nothing of value

Wolf Kanno

10-24-2017, 06:36 AM

5.

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If you had told me even five years ago that SMTIII would be in my top ten, I would probably simply smile and say, "It's a great game, but I'm not sure about that." yet despite that, this game has seriously stuck with me since I first played it back in 2004. My first playthrough saw me go all the way to the final dungeon where I was getting rocked by a sub-par party build and then I ended up losing my memory card for the game and it would be almost a decade later before I ventured back into the Vortex World and finally finished the game proper.

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Nocturne begins with the player as a normal Japanese high school student who is being bugged by his classmates to visit the hospital where their kind homeroom teacher Yuko is staying after a minor health issue. The town is a buzz with rumors and gossip because their was some kind of violent gang activity going on in the park the previous night, that resulted in several deaths and some people reported seeing monsters. You encounter Hiriji, a reporter for an occult magazine who is trying to investigate the incident and let's it slip that the hospital you're going to may be connected. Meeting up at the hospital with your two classmates Chiaki, the class rich chick; and Isamu, the class clown who are both perplexed because not only can they not find their homeroom teacher, the hospital is eerily abandoned. As you explore, you see some strange sights that reveal certain dark rituals may have been performed there and the hospital may have been a front for a cult. You encounter Hikawa as well, a strange man who is working with your Homeroom teacher for some kind of "great change" that is about to occur. Only after he nearly kills you by summoning some demon does Yuko appear and save you. She takes you to the roof where she tells you that the world is about to come to an end, but to not fret, for afterwards, a new world will be reborn by the Conception. At this point, you witness the end of the world. Tokyo is destroyed with a great light and then transformed into a Dyson Sphere or cosmic egg called the Vortex World. The rest of reality has been converted into energy and brings forth the Kagutsuchi, a being of light and creation that will restore the world based on a new Reason for existence.

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The MC lies dying from the devastation but is approached by an old woman and young boy with blond hair dressed in funeral wear. They offer to save the MC but it will cost him his humanity. Agreeing, the boy drops a strange parasitic worm called a Magatama that transforms the MC into the Demi-Fiend, not quite a demon, but not quite human either. The MC awakes in the Vortex World which is filled with demons, the souls of humans unaware they are dead, and human like creatures called Manikins who are made of the leftover emotions of humans and are preyed upon by the demons. A great war is afoot between the Assembly of Nihilo and the Mantra, both demon factions fighting to collect Magatsuhi, the primordial energy needed to summon a god to represent their Reason to bring to Kagutsuchi and have the Vortex World remade into a new world based on their Reason. The Assembly of Nihilo is led by Hikawa who is championing the Reason of Shijima which is a world of stillness where all life is a hive mind that will never hurt or bring suffering upon each other but at the cost of individuality in a perfect state of Nirvana. The Mantra Army are led by Gozu-Tennoh, a fearsome demon trying to rule Tokyo and prevent Hikawa from creating his reason, he believes in a Reason called Yosuga, a Social Darwinist philosophy where the weak must serve the strong and the strong battle each other to rule. As the Demi-Fiend explore the world and interacts with the factions, he discovers that his classmates and Hiriji all survived the Conception as well though as pure humans. Chiaki is devastated to be brought down to a scavenger who must hide to save her life and eventually undertakes a journey to gain power that will eventually lead her to the Mantra and become their new ruler. Hiriji spends his times studying the Terminal Drums Hikawa had used to cause the Conception and eventually discovers the Amala Network, an inter-dimensional network that exists outside of normal reality and thus bears witness to all knowledge as it perceives the whole of the multiverse. Isamu himself eventually seeks refuge within the Amala Network where his selfish attitude and desire for personal freedom from others has him propose the Reason of Musubi that proposes a world where all life is isolated from each other in their own worlds but are literal gods in said worlds.

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Traversing the Amala Network itself will lead the Demi-Fiend to encounter the Young Woman and the Old Man who reside at the bottom of a Labyrinth within the Network. They propose the Demi-Fiend help them in exchange for learning what is truly going on with the Vortex World, Kagutsuchi, and it's relation to the greater conflicts between Heaven, Hell, and Humanity that is a central focus of the franchise. From here the player is allowed to explore the world and work for the various factions or human "allies" to make their Reason come to fruition, you choices will ultimately determine one of the games six endings you will receive.

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Gameplay is the real heart of this game, and more than any other entry in my top ten, I can say with confidence that SMTIII probably has the best gameplay overall to me. Nocturne introduces the Press Turn system, a revolutionary take on turn base combat where landing critical hits or exploiting enemy weaknesses grants your party an extra turn, for a maximum eight turns per round. This makes party builds paramount to success as you have to carefully balance a demons ability to help exploit weaknesses while covering their own, because unlike most RPG battle systems, the mechanic works both ways and enemies can also land gain free turns by the same methods. Also, if you hit an enemy with a move that they either Void, Absorb, or reflect back, you lose all of your turns making you have to be careful with how you approach battles and be more observant. This means you will be constantly shuffling your party and building better demons to give yourself an edge, and it's best to maintain a proactive stance on this instead of reactive because Nocturne started and popularized the whole "MC dies=Game Over" gameplay mechanic that most of the MegaTen series and even some other franchises dabbled in. This all adds together to create a pretty tactical battle system that evolves as the game goes on. In the early stages of the game, battles come down to simply figuring out what the enemy is weak to and exploiting it for extra turns, eventually this won't work as bosses gain fewer weaknesses and you have to start dealing with spells like Dragon's Eye that quadruple a bosses amount of turns. At this point, a better strategy is to go full defensive and build demon parties that Void or Reflect the bosses skills that will hurt them and make them lose their turns. There are also tons of bosses with gimmicks and other attributes that keeps battles feeling fresh from beginning to end. It's hard for me to think of another game where the gameplay is really satisfying for me from beginning to end.

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The other major aspect of the game is recruiting demons to help you in battle. You can use three demons in your party with you and about a dozen more in reserve. To gain demons, you will likely have to negotiate with them through dialogue. Some demons will need to be bribed with items or money to join, others will join you based on like minded answers to questions they ask, and some will flat out ignore you no matter what. The game does introduce dialogue skills to help raise success rates with certain types of demons, and even some demons can learn these skills. Other factors include the brightness of Kagutsuchi, which acts similar to the phases of the moon in earlier installments, when the phase is full, most demons can't be conversed with cause their too drunk with power from the full phase, but some demons like the unintelligible Foul or Spirit classes can actually be recruited in this fashion. Changed from previous entries, Demons now gain levels though at a much slower rate than the MC which gives them a bit more longevity than previous installments, and a as a bit of a shout-out to Pokemon, some demons can actually evolve when they level up as long as the MC has reached the minimum level requirement of the evolved form. There are also certain demon bosses who will actually join you based on your alignment with one of the games three Reasons instead of fighting you. Of course some demons can't be obtained through conversation and instead you'll have to go to the Cathedral of Shadows and fuse together to create stronger demons. Fusions come in two forms, basic and sacrificial. Basic fusion has you fusing two demons to create a stronger demon who will inherit skills from either parent demon. Sacrificial Fusion involves sacrificing a third demon to allow the new fused demon to gain some extra skills from three original demons as well as an experience boost to make them stronger. Certain high level demons can only be created with sacrificial fusion like the Seraph Michael who can be made by fusing a Throne (second highest order of angels) and Uriel (one of the four big Seraph angels) while sacrificing a Vile class demon (associated with dark gods and villainous deities) to make him. Others can only be created by using material items and the phases of Kagutsuchi like the Fiend Class (all those skeleton dudes you see in the artwork) which makes for a ton of variety. In addition there are two classes of demons whose only purpose if for fusion fodder like the Elementals which are used to evolve a demon into a higher or lower rank of its own class, and the Mitama which when fused with another demon allows the demon to keep it's form but with raised stats. To be honest, to fully explain how deep the fusion system goes can be daunting and is on par with weapon crafting in Vagrant Story. One of the coolest aspects of SMTIII though compared to some of the other entries is that whenever you fuse a former boss demon, they actually retain their special boss skills they used to make the fight against them a living hell. Nothing is more satisfying than battling one of the fiends and then bringing out your own Fiend demon who can spam his bulltrout attacks at later bosses.

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Also, as a first for the series, you can actually teach your character skills.Traditionally the MC of previous installments was a basic human restricted to using guns and melee weapons to fight, but due to your half demon nature, your character can actually learn up to eight spells a la Pokemon style. As you battle and explore your way through the Vortex world, you'll come across Magatama, the parasitic creature used to make you into a half demon hybrid. Each one has a set of powers that can be learned as you level up if your character ingests them. There are 25 Magatama in the game and they average about four of five skills a pieces giving the player over a hundred skills to customize the MC with. You're restricted to eight skills like the demons, and in similar fashion to Pokemon, learning a ninth skill requires forgetting one of your old skills. The Magatama each have themes with some teaching fire spells, other support magic, healing variants, and some that are pure physical base. You can effectively make the Demi-Fiend whatever you want and they even gain some exclusive skills like Gaea's Wrath and Freikugel that can be serious game breakers if used with the right build. My suggestion is getting Magma Axis to deal with Beelzebub due to the move's unique properties that bypass a lot of his resistances and can be buffed with Fire Boost and Fire Amp. In addition to teaching new moves, the Magatama you have ingested at the time also changes your characters strengths and weaknesses. Ingesting a fire based magatama may give you resistance to fire spells but a weakness to ice ones. Course you can learn defensive skills to give you resistance or immunity to certain elements, but they will take up a precious skill slot to do so.

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It should go without saying with all the above statements that Nocturne is not an easy game. Even it's basic normal mode will come across as very punishing for people used to more mainstream fare including the Persona series itself. I've met a number of people who have tried to play the game and dropped it due to the difficulty level. Yet, much like Dark Souls, it's a game that isn't necessarily hard as it is a game you can't approach with a casual mindset. As I mentioned earlier, you can't play the game re-actively and simply build your strategy around failure because Save Points are few and far between and thus death will be extremely painful. You need to start looking at the skills and demons available and build on what to expect. If you treat the game like it's always out to get you and prepare accordingly, you will find the game isn't actually too difficult unless you were silly enough to play on Hard Mode, so you can experience the "thrill of death" like the game describes it. Of anything the game simply has an old school learning curve where the early sections can be daunting but once you start figuring out the ins and outs of the battle system, you'll quickly find yourself kicking ass and taking names in later dungeons with your party consisting of some of Mythology and religions most iconic figures. My final Party consisted of Beelzebub (Major demon in Abbrahamic Religions and Lucifer's right hand man in the series), Metatron (Angelic form of Enoch and the Voice of God itself), and Shiva (Hindu God of Death and Rebirth), which was more than enough to make the final marathon of bosses cry foul on the bulltrout I was putting them through.

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In a very rare instance of awesome, the West lucked out and Atlus released the Director's Cut version of the game out here instead of the regular vanilla versions, this means we got access to the sixth ending, and the new optional dungeon: The Labyrinth of Amala, which is filled with some more challenging bosses and puzzles and may actually be my favorite optional dungeon in an game. Completing floors also grants audience with the Old Man and the Young Women who fill you in on several of the more ambiguous elements of the game's plot, including the backstory of Hikawa, more insight into what Hiriji uncovered by studying the Amala Network, the true nature of the Manikins, and the true nature of the Vortex World and the multiverse's nature of endless death and rebirth. So take solace in knowing we got the good edition. Also, due to an odd partnership with Capcom, the game even has Dante of Devil May Cry fame as an added character that can be recruited though his role in the plot is much smaller than the opening videos would lead you to believe. A later version of the game that is Japan only replaced Dante with Raidou Kuzunoha from the Devil Summoner series and I hope one day Atlus may do an HD remake of that version and bring it out to the West.

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So I've given an overview of the plot and gameplay, so let's discuss why this game is here. While Persona 2 is the first game in the MegaTen franchise I owned, this was the first game I seriously played. I never made it far in P2 initially due to other games attracting my attention but the game's striking art style, and intriguing premise attracted me to this title. The rave reviews helped as well and so I eventually found a copy and dove right in. I honestly needed something like this. By 2004, I was growing a bit disappointed with the RPG genre as it began to slowly segue into a comfortable but bland porridge or tropes and cliches. I was getting bored always saving the world with a plucky group of adventurers each with their own tragic backstory. The genre had become too comfortable and set in what works, which was in stark contrast to the more experimental era of the PS1 generation, and I was still left feeling a bit disappointed by Final Fantasy's recent efforts so I was starving for a new RPG after consuming Suikoden III and Xenosaga. Then this game came along. Honestly the sheer shock value of playing an honest to goodness difficult turn based RPG that wasn't some NES title was refreshing on it's own. The Press Turn system was a novel idea and something that I have never really stopped thinking about because it resolves a lot of the issues I have with JRPG combat. The battle system is mostly fair since the rules work both ways instead of typical systems where enemies and players use different rules and mechanics against each other. Secondly, the elemental exploitation system extends to melee as well instead of the usual role of being the almighty neutral element that ends up being more practical than all the fancy magic spells you'll get. You can't brute force your way through this game, you actually have to stop and think because you'll end up running into an enemy that is built against your strategy and I guarantee it will likely be a regular one you will have to deal with a lot. There are also ingenious boss battles with outside the box strategies for winning such as boss that controls shadow and can make copies of himself. If you attack a copy, you lose all your turn and will get wailed on by the boss. Going into the fight while it's a Full Kagutsuchi will reveal that only the real boss has an actual shadow on the floor, which when hit, removes all of his copies and makes the fight substantially easier. Some bosses also put you in scenarios where you have to deal with the lesser evil, like the boss battle against Samael whose special move is basically the game version of Bad Breath, but unlike typical RPGs, there are two classes of status effects (Body and Mind) and unless you sacrificed some slots for immunity to one type and wore a Magatama to protect from the other, you'll have to be prepared to deal with one type during the fight. Gameplay is generally very rewarding and beating some of the games crazier bosses like the Horsemen of the Apocalypse or Black Frost feels incredibly rewarding, especially when you make them in the Cathedral of Shadows and start using them on your team.

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In terms of narrative, Nocturne is like nothing I had seen before due to the MegaTen franchise being Japan exclusive for the most part, and partially for falling out of love with PC gaming at the time. Ut was refreshing to play a game where there really was no clear villain or heroes. Where your goal isn't about saving the world because it already ended about twenty minutes into the game. Instead you were battling figurative and literal demons to come up with an ideal new world even if the game makes the options painfully clear their shortcomings. I often tell people not to go into the mainline SMT series expecting a strong character narrative. This is a bit of a half truth because I do believe the franchise has interesting and strong characters but unlike most RPGs, the story is never about exploring them as people instead of the characters themselves sort of being mouthpieces and physical embodiment of the best and worst aspects of the philosophies they champion. That doesn't mean they don't have their fun and endearing quirks, but the game doesn't spend a lot of time fleshing out who they were. You know Chiaki was the class rep and a girl from a rich and influential family, but whether she had a good or bad childhood doesn't exactly mean much in the Vortex World and a large part of her story within the game is her simply trying to find a place in this new chaotic reality. This follows the course of all of the human characters to be honest. Isamu spends his time looking for Yuko because he has a crush on her but constantly needs to be rescued which eventually erodes his self worth until he has to become completely self absorbed to function. Hikawa is biding his time before he can summon his patron deity to champion his Reason.Hiriji is hiding around and studying the Amala Drums to gain knowledge about the Vortex World and Hikawa's end goal. Yuko eventually leaves Hikawa and seeks her own Reason but is too confused with what she wants and gets easily frustrated. There are certainly some serious human drama going on here, but don't expect the game to have the characters spend cutscenes lamenting some past mistake they must overcome for personal growth. In true MegaTen fashion, the characters grow more desperate and monstrous as the story unfolds and the extreme nature of their current situation pushes all of them past the breaking point. MegaTen is almost always a story of tragedy, and while you will experience a catharsis moment for the cast, this is not a series where hubris is easily forgiven. Even the MC's endings are a bit bittersweet when you apply some logic and context of the franchise to them.

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Oddly enough an interesting play on the story is watching as the human characters become more monstrous and heartless as the story goes on while contrasting it with a subplot concerning the Manikins. The Manikins are a humanoid race of people created from the primordial ooze and left over emotional residue of humanity. They are basically a new form of humanity that is born due to the nature of the Vortex World, they do not posses souls though as the souls of people still linger in parts of the Vortex World and like their progenitor, the Manikins are somewhat powerless to the whims of demons. They are also a great source of Magatsuhi which is needed by the factions to summon their patron deities to represent their Reason, so they are often captured and tortured by demons to gain this energy from them. The Manikins can eventually be freed from their captivity by the player and go forth to create a safe haven for themselves, they too want to create a Reason so they can finally live in peace and this story is best told through the characters of Sakahagi and Futomimi. The first is a ruthless serial killer who hunts his own kind to drain their power and become more of a demon so he can surpass his limitations of his species, Futomimi on the other hand is a reserved and thoughtful fellow of great spiritual power for his race and tries to lead the group to a better way of life and come up with a Reason. It's kind of interesting to watch this non human race try so hard to become human especially as the actual humans are corrupted. The information within the Amala Network also paints these two in a different light because you can meet their former human selves as souls trapped there and learn some uncomfortable truths about both of them. I think one of the things I love about the franchise is that is makes people, not likable people per se, but people that can be seen as relatable even if you don't necessarily like them.

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I often feel in moral choice systems, it's often too easy to figure out the optimal solution. Often people have to force themselves to play a Good or Evil character cause their own personality makes it too easy to choose. In Mass Effect I play Renegade Shep, partly as a power fantasy but also because I feel it makes for an interesting character to mold him by your choices into that type of person, but your character in the MegaTen franchise is often so removed from the story, that your choices tend to never fall into that trapping of role-play. Instead the choices often feel more like you choosing what you would honestly choose. The negative reinforcements help as well because choice in SMT is not about creating a character, it's about supporting an ideal, and not one simply based on power politics (though it does do that too) but more on inherent values of nature. The three Reason of the game are all based on different philosophies and ideas that human philosophy has reasoned as the basis of how people should live:

Shijima is similar to the Law faction of previous entries but has now been re-imagined with more Buddhist ideas. Instead of creating a society absolutely obedient to YHHW and of one mind only for him, you instead create a hive mind that is described with similar terms as the Buddhist concept of Nirvana.
Yosuga is a Social Darwinian philosophy of Might makes Right that favors the elite of society and forever casts the weak as a slave population. It perfectly in-lines with the Chaos alignment of previous entries but drops the whole "return of the Old Gods" spiel that often painted the faction in a more favorable light. It is a world of perfect freedom, but only if you have the strength, resources, and ingenuity to rise above the steep competition. It's philosophy has some similarities to Ayn Rand's Obejctivism where the only moral good is the one that makes the individual happy and the pursuit of safeguarding one's own life over the alternative of death being the guiding moral foundation for all ethics.
Musubi is a philosophy that rejects the intervention of of other ideas and proposes the self as the only true absolute. The world it envisions is one where all life is separated into individual realities governed by one person who is that world's god. It has some echoes of René Descartes Cartesian philosophy. The goal of this reality is to be a solitary existence who can never be intruded on by the thoughts and wills of others. It is similar to the Neutral path of previous entries with far more selfish and darker tones than before.

These are the philosophies that are explored within the game, but unlike other cookie cutter choice systems, the game presents these ideals warts and all, which may be a strong reason why the omnicidal True Demon Ending was eventually revealed to be the canon ending. Yet I feel it's a brilliant way to go about it because it forces you the player to come to terms with what you could live with. Would you wish for a world free of suffering at the cost of individual freedom and thought? Would you rather choose a world of freedom with inevitable suffering? How about a world that grants you freedom without the suffering caused by others but in exchange you must forever be alone? What is more important to you Autonomy or Being free of Suffering? At the heart of everything, the game asks some interesting philosophical questions and you must witness first hand the brutality and logical extremes of these ideas. Of course in true MegaTen punk fashion, the story is written in a way to express the sheer hypocrisy of it's supporters. Hikawa wants a world of balance and complete order but not only was he a dissenting mind in his own religious order, but he ultimately forced the world to undergo the Conception to achieve his individual goal. Chiaki wants a world where the strong and elite rule over the weak, but not only do the Mantra have to rely on the resources given to them by these weaker beings but the entire society is one that is based on an elite few depending on a weaker class to survive which inverts the idea of who is actually in charge. Musubi is a world of the individual but Isamu is completely hopeless with accomplishing anything without the help of Hiriji and the Demi Fiend. Even Yuko, who comes to regret her decision to spur on what she felt was a stagnating world by helping Hikawa as the Maiden ends up yearning for the return to a world that she simply convinced herself was falling apart when in reality it already embodied what she wanted. Course if you decide you don't like any of the options and agree most of the cast are complete assholes, you can always go for the game's sixth ending where you become a full demon and join Lucifer's army and put an end to the whole process of the Vortex World, ending the cycle of reincarnation once and for all. Agaiun the choice is up to you and there is no wrong answer, you're never vilified for your actions.

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In an interview for Nocturne, Kazuma Kaneko, one of the creators of the SMT part of the franchise and the series main illustrator mentioned that Nocturne was designed to be a contrast from SMTII. SMTII has a very heavy Law representation to it and Nocturne has a Chaos bent to it. The Vortex World itself isn't a far cry from the type of world the Chaos factions want that are sometimes briefly glimpsed in later installments. Likewise, Nocturne has more of the figures commonly represented by the Chaos faction appearing in this title just as SMTII features a heavy amount of the Law Faction. It's an interesting take on the franchise and I love the fact it has a more otherworldly feel to it from the post apocalyptic or heavy sci-fi utopia feels of the earlier installments. Overall, the game was like nothing I ever played before. It had otherworldly visuals, a rocking metal soundtrack in contrast to the genres usual sweeping orchestral preference, a challenging gameplay based on tactical thinking and character building in an era where most games in the genre were trying to make their games more easy and accessible, and a story that was mature intellectually that largely didn't follow the standard tropes of the genre that were gaining traction at the time. This is a game that was quite impressive to me back then and it's never left my thoughts. It introduced me to a whole new franchise I never knew and finally gave me a taste of something different than the usual fantasy and sci-fi tropes predominate in the genre. It has slowly climbed my list until it finally overtook Persona 3 from me, which was a game that left me emotional drained but satisfied, yet Nocturne continues to make me think and appeals to the inner philosopher within me. Overall, it's a fantastic game that introduced me to one of my favorite franchises.
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Coming up next: 74812

Loony BoB

10-24-2017, 06:55 AM

I had to Google SMTIII to figure out what this game was. I like the look of that game in the coming up next bit! ;)

Fynn

10-24-2017, 07:03 AM

I started playing Nocturne once but stopped because it was kicking my ass :p I was 16. Since then, I've played my fair share of difficult RPGs, and there's so many things about Nocturne that look really appealing to me. I hope to get the game again soon and actually play through it for the first time again.

Scotty_ffgamer

10-24-2017, 05:00 PM

I really liked the style and atmosphere when I first tried playing this. I feel like I got stuck against Matador though for whatever reason, and haven’t played it since. Been meaning to try it again though.

Del Murder

10-24-2017, 06:17 PM

Coming up next: 74812
I knew it! You secretly love Final Fantasy VII just like all the rest of us. One of us. One of us. It is in your top 10 just like it should objectively be in everyone's top 10. I only have this to say:

xSTN3mHEAOA

Fynn

10-24-2017, 07:30 PM

Pff. Obviously the next game is Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion :roll2

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/codegeass/images/c/c4/Code_Geass_Hangyaku_no_Lelouch.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101007210440

Bubba

10-24-2017, 10:46 PM

I think we can all agree that FFVII is not going to be anywhere near WK's top five :lol:

...or indeed his top 100 :colbert:

Slothy

10-24-2017, 11:18 PM

I don't know. For all the shit I give FFVII I still actually like the game overall. Partly due to nostalgia but whatever. I don't think I'd say it's in my top 5 (even if we were talking just FF titles). I wouldn't 100% put it past him to do this to us.

Bubba

10-24-2017, 11:22 PM

Nah, definite red herring.

Come on, Mr Canoe. Please put us out of our misery.

Pete for President

10-24-2017, 11:30 PM

Can someone explain to me what the difference is between Persona and SMT? I thought they were the same series :0

theundeadhero

10-24-2017, 11:42 PM

Pete for President

10-25-2017, 02:12 AM

Slothy

10-25-2017, 02:31 AM

SMT is an overarching series that focuses on rebirth and metamorphosis. They're not really a continuation of each other, but they contain the same themes. They often take place in a post-apocalyptic world and involve opposing factions based on character alignment, philosophy, or other divisive features. The persona games are a subset of these games. The main difference is that they take place in more conventional, modern settings, such as high schools and modern day japan.

Thanks for clarifying! If one was to try one of these games, which one would you recommend to start off with?

I have not played nearly enough of any entries aside from Persona's 3-5 to have a useful opinion at all, but of those I will say you can't really go wrong with starting at 3. If you liked it you'd like the later Persona's probably. I certainly did anyway.

I need to play some of the other SMT games. Between PS2 classics on my PS3 and a number of games sitting around the house unplayed I can't say I have many excuses.

theundeadhero

10-25-2017, 04:37 AM

I strongly recommend avoiding the original two Shin Megami games, as well as their SNES remakes. You can find english-patched roms of them but you really don't want to. The third game is Nocturn, which is amazing, but not the greatest starting point. It might be better to start with a game that lets you ease into the combat difficulty as well as the shear weirdness of the series. Persona 3 and 4 are really great choices to start with. My first was 4. Really, just look them both up and pick the one that looks more interesting. The Digital Devil and Devil Summoner franchises are even lighter, but I feel like they really miss out on what the theme as a whole is.

Wolf Kanno

10-25-2017, 05:18 AM

Nah, definite red herring.

Come on, Mr Canoe. Please put us out of our misery.

You're going to have to wait I'm afraid, I'm focusing on finishing my Halloween story for the contest tonight so I won't really have time to write up the next entry since it's going to be a bit of a doozy.

I did plan on either opening up the thread or making a new thread about games that people thought would show up on this list but didn't, because I have a few interesting comments on why some titles people may have thought were a shoe in didn't make it here.

To pass the time though:

What has been the biggest surprise for you on this list?
What is your favorite game so far on this list?
Have you thought about checking out any entry I've mentioned?

@Pete for President: theundeadhero summed up the differences nicely. Persona is certainly the gateway series in terms of accessibility but considering your background with FFX and Dark Souls, I think you're more than ready to appreciate the mainline entries. SMTIV is a good place to start since it was largely designed to be a gateway entry, I have a write up on it for this list though I honestly feel Nocturne is not a bad place to start either since it was the game that got me interested in the franchise to start with.

One thing I forgot to mention about the franchise is that the games all come with a Compendium that serves several in-game functions but it also contains a short bio for every demon, god, or monster that appears in the game and they are pretty well researched from an academic standpoint. So if you've ever been interested in mythology or world religions, you can learn some really cool info from playing the series as well. It's another prime reason why I love the franchise.

Fynn

10-25-2017, 05:52 AM

Agreed that Persona and SMTIV are the best gateway drugs. Go with IV if yoi want to jump right into SMT, or try Persona 3. If you like P3, try 4 and then work your way up from 1 to the two 2s. Cant comment on 5 yet.

Soul Hackers is also a pretty goo starting point as something kinda between Persona and mainline SMT. It has a lighter tone and is part of he Persona timeline, but has all the mechanics of mainline. Its super fun! Or, if you want somethng closer to a more conventional JRPG, try he Digital Devl Saga dulogy

Loony BoB

10-25-2017, 11:51 AM

Biggest surprise so far is you posting anything FFVII related in the top ten at all, even if it is a red herring. :D

Del Murder

10-25-2017, 04:54 PM

Biggest surprise: Leisure Suit Larry. I love the pick, just didn't ever expect someone else to put one of those old school Sierra games in their top 100.

Favorite mentioned: I'll leave this a secret since I'm working on my own Top 100 list to post here. I will say that at least one of your top 10 games you've mentioned so far are also in mine.

Thought about checking out: Wild Arms! I'm going to start it soon. I may also try out an SMT game in the future, probably IV since it is on a handheld system.

Fynn

10-25-2017, 05:00 PM

I mean, it's pretty obvious what #4 is if you just read the quote from the end out loud.

I actually have a list Im pretty confident the order of :

#4 Xenogears
#3 MGS 3
#2 FFVI
#1 Chrono Trigger

Not 100% on 2 and 3 being in the right order. I only put #2 in its spot because I saw Wolf talk about it much more, but I could be wrong, since bias. But I'm pretty sure #1 and #4 are in the right spot.

Biggest surprise: Chrono Cross being here, but I already elaborated on that. I'm also a bit surprised that Kingdom Hearts BBS or Days are not on this list since I remember WK being one of the biggest sidegame apologists aside from me in this regard ;)
Favorite mentioned: Persona 3. That game only keeps climbing up my ranking.
Want to check out: that one rhythm game that looked cool but I forgot the name of ^^;

Psychotic

10-25-2017, 05:19 PM

Two birds with one stone: One of my personal favourite surprise picks is Colonization. I used to play the hell out of it on the Amiga as a wee lad and it holds a special place in my sentimental heart. I'm surprised as it's old and somewhat overshadowed by its big sibling Civilization which I also love - Civ 1 for life!

The game you inspired me the most to play was Suikoden II. Although I do have a long backlog (still haven't done Witcher 3, sorry Fynn! currently working on FFIV TAY!) so I can't guarantee I'll play it anytime soon, but you definitely put it on the map.

Fynn

10-25-2017, 05:23 PM

(I mean, you're still doing it wrong if you're starting with 3, so whatever :p)

theundeadhero

10-25-2017, 06:48 PM

In a surprise upset, the next game turns out to be Rhapsody!

Pumpkin

10-25-2017, 07:12 PM

Suikoden II is bae, hope you enjoy it Psy~

Bubba

10-25-2017, 09:19 PM

I mean, it's pretty obvious what #4 is if you just read the quote from the end out loud.

Zeno Gias? The final Dungeon in Phillips CD-i smash Zelda: Wand of Gamelon? An unusual choice for a top five but each to their own!

:monster:

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Wolf Kanno

10-27-2017, 09:22 AM

4.

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smurf FFVII, no I'm not saying that to be edgy and start this off with the bandwagon "let's hate on VII cause it's cool" I'm talking about the fact all these fans are clamoring for a remake of a game that for all intents and purposes holds up pretty well, and most of them really just wanted a simple graphical upgrade anyway; when this should be the game Square-Enix should be actually remaking cause the game wasn't even finished the first time around. So some fun facts that most veterans will know is that Xenogears actually started it's life as a proposal to be Final Fantasy VII being written by a few people who worked on FFVI, Sakaguchi deemed the game too dark and heavy to be a Final Fantasy but green lit the project where it spent a brief moment as being a sequel to Chrono Trigger which is very noticeable with both games having some shared elements and Lucca herself appears in the game as a cameo. Eventually the game became it's own thing called Project Noah before getting the title it's well known as. Despite the widespread rumor, Xenogears didn't have it's budget slashed so it can be given to FFVIII's development, Tetsuya Takahashi is just bad with budgeting since it was his first time as director and the scope of the game ended up exceeding the original idea for it. The team was told they could make a sequel or it if it sold a million units but the game fell short of that goal until several years later when the game became a cult favorite. By then most of the team left to form Monolith Soft while several members went on to make Chrono Cross which is why that game has so many similarities to this one. In fact, for a game better known for it's reputation than by people who have actually played it, it's surprising how influential this title was for Square internally at the time and how the influence of the game was felt in other titles like FFVII, Chrono Cross, Wild Arms 2, and Monolith Soft's own future projects. Hell, I am Setsuna itself has a few callbacks to this game so in a way I feel a bit vindicated for loving a game that for a long a time was ignored by the general JRPG community.

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Before I get into the lavish praise and reasoning why this game is so high on this list, I'm going to level with you. Despite how I, or any part of the fanbase tries to spin how magical and mature and awe inspiring this game is, it's hardly perfect. It's still an RPG written in the late 90s so expect lots of serious moments getting undercut by throw away gags, silly NPCs and scenarios, the heroes get rescued at one point by the team pet magically remembering it can grow fifty feet tall to punch robots, and most important at all: despite being a game that tackles themes of philosophy, religion, and the human condition, it's still a game about people preaching this stuff while piloting kung-fu robots. Hell the most common complaint about the game besides the Babel Tower (http://whatdoesgodneedwithastarship.com/xenodurr24.html) is that the second disc contains a grand total of three dungeons, a mostly empty word map, and about twenty hours of story text where the cast narrates all the cool trout that would have happened had the team not blown all the budget on hookers and blow. I hope I have firmly established the fact that Xenogears isn't half as serious, mature, or some flawless masterpiece as the fanbase (and likely the rest of this post) makes it out to be. I am also happy I get one last chance to talk about my love for giant robots cause I smurfing love the Gears in this series, and this may be my favorite giant robot anything.

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The game opens with a massive space shuttle going through peacefully before it gets attacked by an enemy hacking into the ships mainframe and taking it over. When the captain realizes the destination the enemy is trying to take the ship, he orders the crew to evacuate while he activates the ships' self-destruct sequence. The ships weapons turn on the evacuees and no escape pods make it before the ship self-detonates and it's wreckage is pulled into the gravity of the closest planet. From some wreckage on the planet, a beautiful woman with purple hair emerges and watches as pieces of the remaining ship in the atmosphere transform into shooting stars on re-entry.

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The game then jumps 10,000 years into the future. The mainland is home to two powerful nations: The desert Kingdom of Aveh and the Kislev Empire. The two nations have been locked in a war that has lasted centuries and due to the intervention of the Ethos, a powerful religious order who scavenges the world for ancient relics, the people of the continent have rediscovered the technology of Gears. Giant, and often humanoid mecha, that are powerful tools of war. This discovery eventually gave Kislev the edge in the fighting because their empire contained more archeological caches of the machines, but a few years before the story properly begins, Aveh is contacted by mysterious military organization called Gebler. Gebler's military prowess and access to advanced Gears and elite pilots allows them to turn the tide of the war in Aveh's favor.

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The story begins in the small farming village of Lahan which sits on the border of these two nations. Fei Fong Wong is a painter and local martial arts enthusiast living a peaceful life in the village and getting ready to see his two best buddies get married together. Three years prior, Fei was brought to the village by a strange man in a mask who asked the village chief to take him in. Badly injured and traumatized by whatever happened, Fei recovered from his injuries but all memory of his life prior to coming to the village is gone. Fei is asked by his best friend Alice to fetch some camera equipment from Citan Uzuki, the village doctor, for the wedding. Citan is a wise and multi-talented man who knows a bit of everything and loves to tinker with machines. He arrived with his family not long after Fei did to the village and the two became fast friends due to being non-natives. When Fei begins his return trip home, he witnesses several large gears fly over head and one crash lands in the village. Fei and Citan rush to the scene of the burning village to help evacuate it. Fei discovers the crashed gear, an ominous black unit that was abandoned by it's pilot. A strange voice compels him to enter the machine which he does so. To Fei's surprise, even with the machines guidance systems, he displays natural talent piloting the gear. He fights off the gears in the village only to discover they were trying to protect the black unit from pursuit party based in Kislev. As Citan warns Fei not fight within the village, the pursuit forces begin slaughtering the remaining citizens, including Fei's other friend. The shock drives Fei in a rage and he blacks out. When he awakes, he discovers to his horror that his blind rage resulted in the village being utterly destroyed and the deaths of several people including his friend Alice and the village elder who took care of him. Fearing the survivors would lynch him, Citan has the village agree to banish him instead.

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Fei's journey begins here and he finds himself being caught up in one major event after another, all the time being dogged by the mysterious Grahf, who was head of the pursuit forces that attacked Lahan, and whom claims that Fei has the power to kill god. His journey includes meeting a large cast of intriguing characters including Elly, a Gebler soldier whom Fei has a strange sense of familiarity with; helping an ousted prince now turned pirate to reclaim his thrown and possibly end the war; being imprisoned in Kislev where he has to solve series of murders with the King of the Prison in order to clear his own name; helping a gun toting Ethos priest hunt down monstrous creatures called Wels, and eventually getting help from the mysterious floating city of Shevat who lost a war to the even more mysterious shadow government of Solaris that manipulates all the political events on the planet in one way or another. In between, Fei has flashbacks of his past and that sometimes involves people that look like him and Elly but go by different names and are dealing with events that happened centuries before either is born. Fei's journey will take him across a story that spans different ages as he slowly begins to learn that maybe he shouldn't learn the truth about his past, a past that transcends both time and space.

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Xenogears is a very dense title. The game does the opposite of FFVII and uses 2D models on 3D Backgrounds much like Breath Of Fire, while the sprite work is nowhere near as good as Capcom's efforts, Square does a pretty commendable job and the characters and creatures in the game are quite distinct and memorable. Where Square excels is in the 3D model department, while the stages themselves vary from place to place, enemies and gears rendered in 3D are substantially better animated than some of the efforts by other games using a similar 2D/3D blend like BoFIV and Wild Arms 2. What's really interesting here for me is that the use of 3D maps end up changing the approach of levels. While BoF3 pioneered a lot this stuff, Xenogears innovated by adding platforming for better or for worse. This proves to be a bit of a double edge sword because while it adds a distinct and interesting layer to exploration now that you actually have full 3D access, as Brave Fencer Musashi taught us, platformers are not exactly Square's forte and more than any other feature of the game, this has aged the most poorly. Still, I commend them for actually pushing the envelope and creating a game that really does stand apart from the the main Final Fantasy series. Of anything, I feel more vindicated now when the team finally got this idea working in Xenoblade.

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Combat is also distinctly unique and while I wouldn't be surprised if it was pioneered by some lesser known Japanese only title, the gameplay certainly inspired the likes of Chrono Cross and Xenosaga's systems. Combat has two distinct forms: Human and Gear Battles. Human combat involves a character getting a certain amount of action points per round and having a Light, Medium, and Heavy attack button mapped to the controller. Depending on the characters level or where they are in the plot, they will have anywhere from 3 to 7 Action points. Light uses one point, Medium 2, and Heavy uses three. You can mix and match these attacks to chain together combos to defeat opponents and certainly combinations lead to Deathblows, which are special animated finishers that do more damage than usual. There are about a dozen Deathblows per character though some can't use this feature and excel in other areas. In addition to the combo system, characters can also use Ether Skills (Magic) or use items but this will use up their turn as well. If a character chooses to finish their turn without expending all of their action points, the leftover points begin to fill up a special bar until you have 28 total points. This bar serves as a form of Limit Break and allows the character to chain together Deathblows for high damaging combos that will take out a huge chunk of life but filling the bar is time consuming unless you are purposely filling it, and some bosses require this skill to be beaten as standard deathblows tend to initiate devastating counters. On the magic side of things, Xenogears actually emphasizes buff and debuff spells over standard offense, largely because only a few characters have access to offensive magic and of all of them, only three of them have skills worth using over deathblows and even then it's still situational. Human combat is significantly easier than Gear combat and most enemies will go down with a single deathblow.

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Gear combat works on the exact same principles but with some different rules that make it far more challenging and generally the more engaging combat in the game. Gears still use the whole combo rules but can only perform one action instead of chain attacks and their moves require Fuel instead of AP. Fuel does not regenerate every round, instead you're limited by the specs of the Gear's fuel capacity. There is an option to recharge fuel every round but it takes up a turn and doesn't regenerate as much fuel as you would like on normal circumstances. While a Gear can use any strength of attack per turn, they are limited to one action on their initial turn. On their following turn, their action will charge one combo level and there are a total of four combo levels though the fourth is restricted until a certain point in the story. If you Gear has a Level 1 Combo available, then if you start with a Light attack, you get the option of following it up with a second attack that activates the Gears own Deathblow that will consume more fuel than your heavy attack but cause significantly more damage in exchange. In essence, Gear Battles become a balancing act as you try to take down enemies while maintaining fuel levels through the dungeon, basically trying to be as efficient as possible. Here is often where offensive Ether abilities become more useful since they don't cost fuel to use. Some gears also learn special skills that cost a portion of fuel as well. Another challenge is that while human characters can use ether skills and items to heal and revive themselves, Gears can't be revived once they are K.O.ed and can only be healed by equipping special Heal Frames Accessories that restore a percentage of their health for the same percentage of fuel or by using one unique healing spell that is associated with probably the most loathed character in the game. While a Gears Combos are directly related to how the pilot has learned, the Gears don't gain levels at all, instead you have to keep them up-to-date with HP frames for health, Engines for their Power and Fuel, and Armor for their defense. These are largely set through the game so unlike other RPGs you can't just grind your way to victory to win. This may all sound pretty tough but it's actually pretty manageable since fuel is usually plentiful and Xenogears is one of those games where the dungeons and random battles are fairly easy to deal with barring a platforming section or two. Boss battles are another story and often prove to be the more challenging experience especially as the game pushes you more and more towards Gear battles and the game is quite fond of marathon boss battles where you may end up fighting several bosses in a row with no rest in-between. It's a decent compromise but not for everyone.

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So okay, Gameplay sounds a bit mixed, and I already tried to dispel the myth that the story isn't a bit overly melodramatic and downright silly at times, so how the hell did this game get up to my number four spot you may be wondering. It's a bit complicated and there are several factors, I enjoy the gnarm charm of the story at times and find the more mature parts impactful. The game was incredibly ambitious at a time gaming felt like it was being ambitious and it really painted and interesting picture of what the future might bring, the game also came at a time in my life when I was really trying to come to terms with my religious and philosophical beliefs, and ultimately the games themes and scale were so inspiring for me that this game has largely impacted my writing style and what I like to write.

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So one thing many people don't know about me is that I had a pretty religious upbringing. I went to a private school run by a Baptist Church and my family is traditionally Methodist. Anyone familiar with the different branches of Christianity may realize that these two particular sects of Protestantism are kind of on opposite ends of the usual Christian spectrum and so getting kind of that one two punch of seeing very radically different interpretations of the religious faith, in combination to my own growing thirst for knowledge beyond religion, led me to have a crisis of faith at an early age. Nothing dramatic however but it was rather daunting to kind of be raised with an idea of how the world works and then ultimately finding yourself in a perpetual state of doubt about all of it. So yeah, I ended up turning my back on what I was raised to believe and I spent some time trying to find answers. This is kind of where Xenogears comes to play, cause along with Neon Genesis Evangelion, my mind was open to a larger historical record of religious beliefs and philosophy and the two stories ultimately built within me an interest in theology, philosophy, and psychology. The games use of Gnostic beliefs for the backdrop of the story as well as taking elements of Judaism, Islam, and the various Christian faiths fascinated me and finally pointed me towards new knowledge I can use to finally forge my own way. So I kind of associate this game with a time period where I was deep in thought and meditation about matters of the universe and why we are here and I came to a conclusion that satisfied me, so for that, I have to thank this game as well as FFTactics as well.

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So now that the heavy personal stuff is out of the way, Xenogears also just impressed with the scale of it's world building. I mean we argue about the FF worlds and stories all the time but in terms of scale and ambition, no entry in FF short of the MMO entries come close to crafting a world with so much detail, history, and multiple themes. Of anything, Xenogears greatest writing flaw is that it tried to tackle way too much and thus story lines and themes in the earlier chapters of the plot are quickly forgotten and often feel trivial to larger themes that unfold later. Xenogears is not so much the story of an amnesiac boy and his robot as much as it's about the history of the world he lives on and his intimate connection to all of the world changing events. The planet has four distinct time periods though only three are heavily dealt with but they have their own distinct politics and social issues like the Zeboim Era that is modeled after our modern era but with giant robots and fully working nanotechnology that would make Starfleet green with envy but the society is dealing with surviving a past fraught with nuclear war that has largely sterilized the population and one scientists goal to use nanotechnology to fix the damage on the atomic level. The Shevat-Solaris War of five hundred years prior to the games main plot is even more detailed and many of the issues Fei deals with in his time largely begin in this one. It may also have one of the most tragic love triangles in gaming between Krellian, Sophia, and Lacan. The modern era of the game is also overflowing with details as countries and entire regions feel very distinct from each each other. To the desert kingdom of Aveh with it's 1001 Nights feel and Modern Middle Eastern politics concerning coups by more powerful foreign countries and the complex religious issues within the region that center on a holy land and temple. Kislev is a cyberpunk dystopia with a culture steeped in rigid control, dealing with a mutant problem due to past experimentation with genetic engineering, bomb collars, and gladiatorial mecha fights. Aquavy is Mediterranean in feel and deal partly with industrial scavengers finding lost relics from the Zeboim era under the ocean floor, it is the home of the Ethos Sanctuary which has the appearance and hierarchy of the Catholic Church but is surprisingly secular in it's teachings like evolution and it's main focus is finding, repairing, and redistributing the lost technology of the past eras. The region is also overrun by mutant zombie like creatures called Wels which can be human size or grow to the size of a Gear. Shevat feels like a new take on the Kingdom of Zeal from CT and is where the largest amounts of callbacks to the games brief time as CT's sequel are concentrated. Solaris itself is basically Brave New World with several allusions to the U.S. in both it's culture and it's political policy with other nations. I wish to remind you all that this was a game released on the PS1 in 1998.

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Xenogears also has a fantastic cast of characters to go along with it' cool setting and timeline. I mean it's hard not to feel for the cast at times like when Bart calls Fei out for his pacifistic desires and the two have a fight only for Fei to start having second thoughts when Sigurd, Bart's first mate explains the rough childhood and burden of rule placed on Bart at such a young age never gave him a chance to make friends. His complex relationship with his cousin Margie who is still a child but also burden to be the new Holy Mother of the Nisan Sect. Rico spending his chapter trying to be stoned faced about not giving a damn about his hometown in Kislev only to realize how selfish he's been when he watches in horror as it burns and finally decides to act to save it. Plucky Hammer who is tapped around king's godslayers, special forces, spies, and great fighters simply trying to find some way to stay needed despite being the most normal person there.There's Billy's tragic backstory of watching his mother get killed by Wels and his father disintegrate as a person due to alcoholism and so it was up to him to raise his traumatized sister. Emerelda's tragic story surrounding her creation, or Maria having to confront her father she idolized ho now has gone mad room his research. Elly dealing with her conflict between serving her home nation that she is well aware is corrupt and evil and following her heart to be with the one person who understands her. Trying to figure out the truth about Citan and how he knows so much and wondering where his allegiance really lies. Finally Fei, I mean dear lord, he's easily one of the most complex characters written in the medium and he will drag you everyone from feeling bad for him, hating his cowardice, only to start liking him as he begins to accept his fate only to watch him crash back down when the world just beats him down for actually trying. His backstory is complex and takes one of the longest text base sequences in a game to finally unravel which is actually a good chunk of Disc 2, and despite it being pretty easy to figure out some of the connections he has with the villains, the game still finds ways to twist the whole ting around to still surprise you a little. Fei has one of the most complex pasts of any character and all the FF heroes combined can't quite measure up to how really screwed up it can get.

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Even more are some of the villains like Ramsus, the main antagonist throughout the game, whose intense inferiority complex he's had since birth allows every other villain to manipulate him to do all their dirty work and shackle him with the blame when he ultimately fails and his obsession to beat Fei and the mysterious Red Gear which he still has PTSD from. It's an amusing rivalry at first but the guy gets brow beaten and humiliated so often that his descent into delirium is pretty tragic and by the end you really feel bad for the guy cause all he wanted to do was prove that he was worth something and validate his existence and instead he's just used as a tool until the bitter end. Grahf, the cartoonish and hamtastic Darth Vader expy winds up being one of the most tragic figures in the story and his goal of killing god and possibly all life on the planet actually has circumstances that show he's more of a well-intention extremest who simply fell off the slippery slope due to the tragedy surrounding his life. His backstory and connection to Fei is not only quite an interesting twist but is actually one of the game's best subplots which also ties into Krelian, the game's ultimate antagonist who is probably only equaled to Revolver Ocelot in terms of his goals being somewhat justified and pulling a Karma Houdini on the player. Miang herself is also a fascinating and interesting character who constantly subverts your expectations of her and may be one of the best female villains in gaming. I pretty much mean when I say that Xenogears may have some of the best villains in gaming. In fact, they are often more of the heart of the story than the actual playable cast sometimes and there stories tend to be the most cathartic, a tradition continued with the game's spiritual sequel series Xenosaga which also had fantastic villains that often stole the spotlight from the party.

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With all this subjective praise on the writing though, another aspect that stands out to me for this game is that it's a Sci-Fi junkies wet dream in terms of references and inspiration. Soylent Green, Solaris, U.C. Timelines Mobile Suit Gundam series, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Giant Robo, Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, Star Wars, Star Trek franchise, Hades Project Zeromer, Voltron, Panzer World Galient, Neon Genesis Evangelion, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Childhood's End, Warhammer 40,000, the Philadelphia Experiment, Brave New World, 1984, and probably a dozen more anime's and legendary Sci-Fi novels I missed. I mean there is technically some fantasy shenanigans going on here but at the very heart of it all, Xenogears is pretty much a Sci-Fi RPG. In addition the game combines elements of Freudian and Jungian Psychology, All three major branches of Christianity, a crap ton of Judaism, Islamic traditions, Nordic Mythology, Buddhist philosophy, and was mine and probably a lot of other gamer's first real taste of Gnosticism. These elements are woven into the story and world from both extremes as just simple shout-outs and colorful window dressing to make something sound cooler than it really is, while other elements fall on the opposite spectrum and add interesting gravity and philosophical undertones to major concepts in the story such as the major plot basically mirroring the creation myth of Gnosticism and Fei's own personal journey being one that is deeply Buddhist despite all the Judaeo-Christian imagery the game is oozing. I mean lots of game use real world myth and religious concepts in there games or subtle film and literary ones, but Xenogears takes it to an art-form and wound up creating a game that is deeply philosophical at it's heart, much like any good Sci-Fi piece would be. What is the purpose of humanity? What is God? Does life have value and who truly decides this: society or the individual? Is Utopia at the cost of great sacrifice worth it? Is immortality really a good thing? What should religion's role in society be? What about science? Is devotion to God or Science more important than a person's life? While better stories have asked these questions before and Xenogears isn't treading any new ground that hasn't been in literary and media circles for over a few centuries, the game does try to bring this sophistication to gaming, though it failed to spark the interest in gamers like more successful philosophical works such as the Metal Gear franchise. Still, it was a ballsy game in an era where having an RPG with jagged looking humanoid characters and a camera that pans around them in combat was enough to get most gamers jaws dropping. I still feel that the loss of the Xenogears team really hurt the potential Square was showing back then, and I really wish the series would have continued under their banner.

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Overall, Xenogears, probably more than any other piece of media has influenced me the most as a writer. I don't post my trout very often because, well a lot of it's trout, and because I tend to favor grand epic stories with incredibly detailed world design, and loaded with symbolism, philosophical monologues, and bat-trout insane characters. I have at least three different stories on my back burner that take direct inspiration from this game alone so we're talking about a game that is really a larger part of my life than some cool game I simply unwind to play. In fact, if the gameplay was better and half the character arcs weren't dropped after the first Disc, this could have easily been my number one. My point is, this is a pretty special game for me on a lot of levels and I'm always happy to see people check it out despite knowing most people are not going to like this aging relic of a cheese fest, but it's still very special to me and it still inspires me to write which is one of the few things I really enjoy doing in life, so I don't really give a damn if you think the game is overrated and unplayable, it still means the world to me. :wcanoe:

8RLf0O8eofU
Coming Up Next: Your power is a gift, not a curse. No matter what happens, you must remember that. You are this world's last ray of light...our final hope.

Fynn

10-27-2017, 09:36 AM

Okay, so my speculations on numbers 2 and 3 were switched, as expected

Pumpkin

10-27-2017, 03:33 PM

4. Naval Gazing - The Game!

Chu Chu did nothing wrong

Fynn

10-27-2017, 03:37 PM

http://i.imgur.com/uggD3Jh.jpg

I find it funny how both Pumpkin and I are Catholics and we love this series even though some people get really pissy about it using religious themes

Del Murder

10-27-2017, 05:35 PM

xeno xeno xeno gears gears gears

Wolf Kanno

10-27-2017, 10:37 PM

Man finding images for these things is always challenging, but this next entry is definitely going to be the hardest for me. :eep:

Del Murder

10-27-2017, 11:31 PM

There's plenty of images of FFVII out there, Wolfy.

Wolf Kanno

10-29-2017, 11:49 PM

3.

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I find as I get closer to the top that these are getting a bit harder to write, largely because a lot of my reasoning comes down to more personal things and I'm a fairly private person which makes writing these pieces a bit uncomfortable for me. So now we've reached my favorite Final Fantasy in the series, and the game that plays a large part of why I'm here and how I got into RPGs to begin with. There is no point in really recapping the story or gameplay because of the nature of our forum and due to this particular entry's reputation among fans. Besides, I have to leave something for the retrospective articles when I get back to them, which may happen once this list is completed.

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So this is the first Final Fantasy I ever played, and probably the second RPG I really remember playing. I had one gamer friend growing up through middle school and high school who was a huge fan of RPGs and he wanted me to get into them as well. Unfortunately, growing up in a Tolkien/High Fantasy obsessed house with some overbearing family members, I ignorantly believed that all RPGs were just silly fantasy bulltrout with elves and dwarves and occasionally a dragon or two. Not stuff I particularly disliked, but stuff I had been exposed to all my life and no longer really wowed me like they did when I was six or seven. None of this was helped that the few RPGs I knew of were the D&D RPGs and Dragon Warrior with their typical fantasy trappings on the cover. I loved video games, but I was more interested in the arcade experience of Beat 'em Ups and Fighting games. The idea of a game driven by menus didn't really appeal to me too much either, so for the longest time I resisted his attempts to get me into the genre. While I can never quite remember what started it, I finally relented and let him lend me two games he really thought I would like: Final Fantasy VI and Secret of Mana. SoM was chosen due to it's battle system being closer to what I was into and FFVI was chosen to appeal to my Sci-Fi interest and love of mecha and robots thanks to the Magitek Armors.

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I threw in FFVI first, watched the really cool intro and was pretty intrigued by the game's premise and the cool sequence of watching the party walk to Narshe in the Magitek Armors. I liked the idea of a world that no longer knew of magic and it suddenly being revived. It was an interesting premise that hadn't quite been as overused at the time as it is now. So I go into battle and the dudes are on one side taking turns hitting others and the damn asshole never bothered to give me an instruction manual or anything for this thing, so here I am trying to figure out what the buttons do and I probably fumbled for ten minutes inputting a command and then incorrectly canceling it and putting me back to square one. I think I got to the second scripted battle before I grew so frustrated that I called it quits and threw in Secret of Mana instead. So yeah, I started this relationship off kind of hating the game for making me feel stupid. After SoM softened my stance some more and more encouragement from my friend who lent it to me, I eventually decided to go back to the game and my time with SoM better prepared me for the dumbass menu system.

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Despite a hiccup here and there usually involving Sabin, I eventually got hooked on the ride. I loved the idea of magic and science being brought together in an unholy union, I liked the way magic was handled and I loved the more interactive and unconventional skill mechanics the party possessed that made them feel so distinct from each other. I became invested in Terra's story of discovery, Locke's tragic past, the Figaro's brother's relationship, Cyan's tragic intro, Celes' betrayal, and the uber awesome Shadow and Interceptor the Wonder Dog. By the time the Opera Scene and Magitek Factory passed by, I was sold on the game. Of course this all ended a bit tragically for me when I accidentally stumbled onto the Sketch Bug and ended up erasing all of the save files on the game, including my friend's brothers save which was the only one he told me not to touch. So I sheepishly gave him the game back without finishing it and apologized for it but he was pretty cool with it since he was aware of the bug himself. Still, I was too embarrassed to ask to borrow it again after killing his files to ever start over and finish it. Instead I plunged into the RPG genre I had been missing out on and went onto FFIV. It was my last year of Middle School I finally found my own copy of the game and I plunged into with enthusiastic zeal. By this time, my friends were obsessing over this other game called Chrono something but I was still trying to finish up a game that had become a bit of a Unicorn/Eleanor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RedV7vhVKHY) for me. Finishing this game was a major accomplishment for me cause it was a title that had kind of got me hooked on the series but I wasn't able to play it to completions for awhile and it drove my OCD crazy.

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VI has forever remained a magical game for me. Objectively, I can tear this game apart with an non-intuitive customization system that is largely obsolete due to your level being the only really important stat. Magic is overpowered, summons are underwhelming and several party skills and weapon/relic combos break this game with little effort. The plot is good for it's time but video game writing came a long way only a few years after this game released, and the second half of the game suffers from the writing coming off more stilted due to the open world nature of itself. The music, well who am I kidding, this game is Nobuo Uematsu's Magnum Opus and I can't really think of a better OST he worked on though a few do come close. Despite the flaws the game carries with itself, I can't help but love it though cause it was a game that actually made me care and feel for the cast. While VI has an interesting premise to it's world and setting, the game isn't so much plot focus as it is character focus, and I still feel VI has one of the best casts in the franchise. I salute them for giving me so many great characters and spending time with all but three of them to get you to actually give a damn about them which was pretty impressive cause even nowadays it's not uncommon to play games with three times the playtime and a quarter of the cast VI had and still feel like the writers dropped the ball on some of the characters. I mean I love FFTactics but if I was to discuss which specific characters I liked versus the ones I didn't care for or felt underutilized, I would become painfully aware that I only really loved a handful of them among a massive cast. VI's ensemble approach to the characters was a smart move and SE's attempts to have lightning strike twice just never materialized for them in my opinion.

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There are many other reasons why I love this game of course, I still feel VI kind of clinched the most interesting dungeon design in the series with great puzzles and unique scenarios to play through. Yet I feel it was how the game integrated gameplay and storytelling that really resonated with me.I love the Opera scene, it's a funny and ridiculous scenario but the music is great and that initial moment of panic when you realize you have to memorize a script to get through it was actually a mind blowing experience for my adolescent mind. Before that moment, games were just about overcoming obstacles and working towards a goal, and while this is not any different in theory, it caught me off guard to have the usual static story sections where I would patiently sit there and read text suddenly ask me to interact and play a part of it was kind of a watershed moment for me and irreversibly changed my mind about the medium. It might seem a bit silly now to think that something so simple and silly could have such a profound effect but in addition to having a pretty receptive mind due to my age, I simply never really experienced something like that before. I've dealt with an occasional dialogue tree but this was something different. I can't change the answers, I have to help Celes now play the part of Maria and it was a profound bonding moment for me. Celes is not even my favorite character in the game but that Opera scene has always made me feel a connection with her I simply don't have with too many characters and this to me is magical and the true potential of the medium, something I feel my next two entries embody on a greater level but for me this start down the road of video games as an art form began with VI.

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For me, VI is just filled with too many moments that stand out for me. Even though a game like Xenogears has better writing and deeper meaning to it's storytelling, it can't quite eclipse the feeling you get when you watch Edgar and Sabin decide the fate of Figaro to a coin toss, watching Setzer recount his lost love Daryl as you descend the stairs to her tomb, Cyan's memories of his family in the nightmare world, and Terra storming the gates of Narshe in Magitek Armor. VI is simply a magical game to me and I love all of it, even the stuff people often criticize the game for, I can forgive it because VI was probably my first "proper" RPG and it's what I cut my teeth on it, and I honestly can't think of a better game to be a real "first" for turn based RPGs. So many of it's elements went of the franchise, Limit Breaks, interactive gameplay sequence, special input devices for attacks, more open ended final acts, better blending of magic and science elements, and better dungeon design. Secret of Mana may have been the start of what I feel is Square's most successful and experimental period of the company's history, but I feel VI embodied this era better than any other entry with possibly VII being the only exception.
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Overall, VI is a bit like my last entry, a flawed but masterfully done game that pushed the genre and the series forward in some exciting ways. For it's few issues, the game has more good to outweigh the bad for me and whenever I truly begin to doubt my feelings for the series, I just need to pop this gem back in and play a few hours to remind myself why I've stayed so dedicated to the series in the first place. It's another stellar title from Square's Golden Age and a highlight of a time frame where I felt the developer was at it's creative peak, a sentiment many of the actual designers themselves believe in if interviews are to be believed. It was a great time to be alive, and it was a great time to be a gamer. No era since has really made me feel excited about the future of gaming like that time period, and no game better embodied that feeling to me than VI.
RDMWp1oLoA0
Coming Up Next: "As long as we have 'loyalty till the end' there's no point in believing in anything, even in those we love. The only thing we can believe in, with absolute certainty is the mission, Jack."

Del Murder

10-30-2017, 02:28 AM

You like Final Fantasy VI? I never knew.

Pete for President

10-30-2017, 04:16 AM

Some sneaky sneaky coming up!

Del Murder

10-30-2017, 05:21 PM

After you had posted this I've been thinking about FFVI and it is ridiculous how good it is. I've been playing Wild Arms and it is fun and has its own uniqueness that sets it apart from the standard JRPG but even though it came out two years later and for a more advanced system, it doesn't hold a candle to FFVI. This game has really aged well. Can't wait to show it to my kids some day.

Psychotic

10-30-2017, 06:47 PM

FFVI was, no, is a tremendous fucking game, both at an emotional level with its characters but also in respect of gameplay with the excellent freeform-yet-still-story-based World of Ruin. A definitely worthy title.

Bubba

10-30-2017, 07:22 PM

I have some thoughts to add which I'll get round to tomorrow. A worthy top five entry!

Wolf Kanno

10-30-2017, 11:13 PM

2.
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When I was writing up the MGS1 entry, I had a moment of doubt, because despite a few issues I have with the title, I still consider it a fantastic entry and the nostalgia is certainly the strongest with that entry than many of the other titles in the franchise. So I sometimes wonder if I may be pouring more love into certain entries that I feel may fall short of it, but when I started collecting the images for this entry, it became clear to me why this entry was ranked so high for me. MGS3 is a fantastic game and I feel it's the Magnum Opus of the franchise and possibly for Kojima as well. There are many reasons why I love this game but I'm getting ahead of myself.
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MGS3 takes place in 1964, making it the chronologically first entry in the series, and taking place not long after the Cuban Missile Crisis which marked the closest moment during the Cold War where open war may occur between the two major super powers. You play as Naked Snake, the field agent for the new FOX unit which was developed in the U.S. and masterminded by Major Tom. Operation Virtuous Mission is a clandestine operation involving sending an agent into Soviet territory to rescue a rocket engineer named Sokolov who wished to defect to the U.S. but was instead traded by the government with Russia as a way to prevent the Cuban Missile Crisis from turning into open warfare. The mission is a test for the new organization and is being overseen by Snake's former mentor The Boss, a heroine of WWII whose Cobra Unit helped bring down the Third Reich making them all legendary soldiers in their own right. The mission is going smoothly until The Boss appears with two Davey Crockett class Nuclear Warheads which she trades with the GRU Colonel Volgin as an offering to defect to the Soviet Union along with the rest of her Cobra Unit. Volgin uses one of the warheads on his own facility to test it and Snake is badly beaten by the Boss and barely survives.
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Now the U.S. government is in a bit of a crisis. A U.S. nuclear weapon was used within their territory and the Russian Premier Khrushchev is in the midst of a political coup, which Volgin is spearheading thanks to his financial influence and having the Boss. The U.S. ultimately blames the Boss for the incident and gives the FOX unit an ultimatum. Be charged in her stead, or go back to Russia and stop Volgin and assassinate the Boss. Thus Snake finds himself back in Russia for Operation Snake Eater, but can Snake kill the only person who ever mattered to him?
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After the bizarre twists and turns with an unsatisfactory ending that was MGS2, it was refreshing to come into MGS3 and face a more down to earth plot based on Cold War spy thrillers of yesteryear. More importantly though is the game's more human elements at play within the story. Raiden was a guy the game mindfucked along with the player for ten or so hours, but Naked Snake, much like Solid Snake in MGS1 faces more personal issues while undertaking the mission that will change his life which adds a better emotional connection to the events. Of course this is Metal Gear so the game is still rife with wacky villains, government conspiracies and plot twists that change the whole premise of the story on it's head, but thankfully MGS3 shows a bit more restraint than MGS2 did. More importantly to me though is that MGS3 is one of my favorite types of stories, a start of darkness tale that details the events that led to the creation of MGS's most memorable antagonist, Big Boss. Once people saw the dates for the game's time period, most fans realized we were going to play as the man whom the Snake triplets were cloned from and the guy you've spent two games dealing with every bat shit crazy terrorist trying to keep his vision alive, so it was pretty cool to finally explore the life of a character most players probably only knew by reputation except for the small amount of fans who played (more like suffered) through the original NES version of Metal Gear. It should be noted that Naked Snake kind of splits the difference and meets in the middle between the series two previous protagonists. On the one hand, Naked Snake is still quite patriotic and naive like Raiden, but on the other hand, he's no green horn either and was personally trained by one of the greatest soldier to live which makes portrayed as a total badass out of the gate like Solid Snake in MGS1. It's a nice combination and serves as an interesting contrast to the original MGS1 where we witness Solid Snake's journey from bitter PTSD rattled killer into someone who once again learns to want to live and finds new meaning in his life, punctuated by the game's main theme of The Best is Yet to Come" whereas MGS3's Naked Snake is traumatized and broken down by betrayal and heartache in the course of his mission which turns him from his idealistic self to a broken and bitter man who will eventually wage war against his homeland, again punctuated by the game's ending theme Way to Fall (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9hagVL-__c). Course nothing quite hits you as hard as having to pull the trigger on the Boss yourself which may be one of the most brilliant uses of gameplay interface to ell a story in gaming.
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Another element MGS3 does which hearkens back to MGS1 over MGS2 is the return of the quirky support crew. Where I differ with most fans is that Naked Snake's crew is easily the best in the franchise. From laughing at Major Zero's love of James Bond, Para-Medic's film obsession which leads into one of the most bizarre Easter eggs in the series, to only sane man Signit chastising Naked Snake for the series staple cardboard box. There are so many fun little conversation pieces with the crew that it didn't take long for me to warm up to all of them. They may lack the drama of Naomi or social commentary of Natasha, but the whole crew is personable and fun, and I found myself constantly checking back with them to hear what they had to say. It's a damn shame the series never got it right after this game.
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Course this leads us into the heart of the whole thing, the gameplay, and MGS3 has my favorite gameplay of the "classic series" and while I feel MGSV blows this game out of the water on the gameplay front, MGS3 is still a strong second, especially if you play the more user friendly Subsistence version that finally dropped the overhead camera view the series has had since it's inception. Part of the reason why I love the gameplay is the addition of the Camo system and CQC. CQC finally resolves one of my biggest beefs with the previous two entries, which was the lackluster hand-to-hand combat the series had. As epic as fighting Cyborg Ninja and Liquid is in the first game, I could have done without the funky combat controls. Raiden getting a sword is cool and all, but again, the controls are hardly intuitive. CQC kind of resolved all of this for me, granted, they have a high learning curve, but once mastered, CQC opens the possibilities in gameplay so much more than what was possible in earlier installments. In fact it's so powerful and unfortunately convoluted in execution that the series has powered it down and overly simplified it with every new installment. Still, nothing beats taking down an enemy soldier who thought he got the drop on you, only to force information out of him to call in an airstrike to wipe out all of his buddies in the area and then finish it off by slitting his throat. Hell, if you haven't tried to beat The Boss with just CQC, you are missing out on one of the best final boss battles in the series.
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Camo is the other new mechanic, and I love what it brings to the table. The move to a more literal organic levels made it interesting to switch around camo to hide in plain sight. It does everything a stealth title should do, it makes you think more about your surroundings, rewards you with proper use of tools at your disposal, and it adds the tension of hiding in plain sight and being only a few inches from a guards path and possible discovery as you slowly inch your way through the jungles to your next destination. Having to jump to the menu to switch out can be a bit annoying but I feel the rewards outweigh this very minor inconvenience. I also love the fact it really gives Big Boss that old school special forces vibe. Helping matters is the enemy A.I. still being pretty sharp after their intelligence boost from the last game, so you really need to rely on these tools to make your way through the game unmolested by constant alerts and the army of guards coming at you. Other new features I loved besides calling in air-strikes is the ability to sabotage weapon and food storage facilities to weaken the patrols around you and let you hear their stomachs growling to alert you that they are close by. Hell you can even get info to call off enemy alerts. The hunt for food is also a pretty neat mechanic, and while some fans hate the whole deal and stamina maintenance, I actually found it fun trying to see what new animals I could catch and conversing with Para-Medic on the new species only for Naked Snake's inevitable "but how does it taste?" line. It made the environments feel a bit more alive, made you have to be a bit more wary of animal threats, and feeds back into the games excellent Codec crew.
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Course the crown jewel of this for me is that MGS3 has hands down my favorite boss battles in the series. From humiliating a young Revolver Ocelot, the most intense sniper duel in the series, the sheer horror of being chased around a dark tunnel by a guy with a flame thrower, and the epic hand-to-hand battle against the Boss herself; MGS3 outdoes itself in the boss arena for me and while many of the bosses can be cheesed pretty easily with the right strategy, I urge you to try to fight them fair and square at least once to see how exhilarating most of them can be. I still have fond memories of trying to take down The Fear without the Thermal Goggles, actually trying to take the End on in a fair sniper duel which involved several times of me getting sneaked up on and being sent back to Granin's facility.
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My other love of this game is it's historical element. Most of the series always took place "20 minutes into the future" or so to speak but this was the first game to actually be placed within a real historical context and I love how the plot twists those real world events into the narrative. I was born in the tail end of the Cold War, while I was too young to really understand it at the time, coming from a military family and a family that loves it's history, I grew up on Cold War films and talking about it. It's honestly the most fascinating part of the 20th century to me with the possible exception of the Communist/Socialist/Anarchist movements of the first few decades. So having the game take place in this fascinating time period and giving heavy fan service to the films of the era made this game a real treat since I grew up watching these types of things. More importantly, I liked the interesting themes placed on the game since the story is a Cold War tale but written in a post-Cold War era which entails certain hindsight that actually feed very well into Naked Snake's fall from grace. Current enemies can become future allies, and current allies can become future enemies and this is something you see a lot of in real world history and politics, which is why the very notion of an "enemy" seems silly since the circumstances may eventually change that. It's amusing that future Big Boss entries show that all of his allies from this game become his enemies and his biggest supporters are the ones he either fought against or betrayed him in this title. I feel like this is an important life lesson for people who sometimes get swept up in the notion of a "forever enemy" that propagandist like to use to get people on their side. I always find it interesting to talk politics with my Baby Boomer parents just so I can witness firsthand the extent of control the propaganda of that time still holds over them and paints their views on certain countries and political ideologies.
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MGS3 is just a fantastic title from beginning to end and easily my favorite entry in the franchise. I can tell you now that one thing all of the top ten have in common for me are that they are all titles I almost immediately started up again as soon as I finished it. MGS3 alone was a game I think I played through three times within two weeks of getting it for Christmas. It has the most emotional ending of a video game I've ever seen and is probably the only game to come close to making me actually tear up a bit when you watch the end. The game is embodies the best the series and gaming itself can offer, and you owe it yourselves to play it and experience one of the greatest games ever made.

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Coming up: Good Morning Crono!

Del Murder

10-30-2017, 11:22 PM

MGS3 is the best one. You picked well. More fun to play than MGS1 and the characters and story were just as good. This.......... is the End.

Regarding the final entry: I don't remember a character in FFVII named Crono...

theundeadhero

10-31-2017, 12:18 AM

What can I say about Xenogears? I often consider it a completely terrible game, but it does have an amazing story. This isn't the palce to discuss that, though.

I'm glad FFVI ranked so high! I would rank it 3rd in my favorite FFs, but I don't think it would be 3rd in general.

MGS3 is a great game too. I remember when it was new I used to love sneaking around to stab people. In a less creepy way than that sounds.

Is that Leene's Bell I hear chiming in the background? I recently had to list my top 5 favorite games for a class I'm in, and Chrono Trigger was number #1. I'm not sure if that's where I would place it if I took the time to carefully consider everything, but its certainly a good choice.

*Ignore button finger twitches* :mad2:

Karifean

10-31-2017, 12:57 AM

Metal Gear Solid 3 is the only entry in the series I actually played, as my friend insisted on watching me play through it, lack of knowledge of the rest of the series be damned. It was a fun game, but a bit difficult to play because I'm *so* used to "following the game's rules" that a game that basically rewards creativity in figuring out new and interesting ways to even interact with the game at all was a strange experience. Suffice it to say I probably didn't do half the things you can even do in this game.

I didn't get particularly attached to the characters and their struggles so it didn't move me all that much in the end, though the presentation of the ending was top notch nonetheless.

Well, at least I've played #3 and #2, time for the inevitable #1 I still have never played.

Fynn

10-31-2017, 07:32 AM

I still need to get into MGS. I have the first one on PSN and I saw this really nice HD collection on the Vita. Maybe someday

Psychotic

10-31-2017, 08:53 AM

MGS3 is a masterpiece and I definitely agree it's the best in the series.

The gameplay is out of this world, and if you see Kojima's commentary on it it's a master class in game design. From the really obvious placement of a snake in a tree early on to remind you to look up to Snake looking at a hornets nest and smiling to subtely let you know how to take out some enemies, it's pure genius.

You mentioned blowing up the enemy storehouses to make them hungry and give away their positions but you didn't mention my favourite trick with that. They're so hungry they'll eat anything they find. So if you happen to leave poison dart frog meat lying around they'll eagerly seize it, stuff their face and then drop dead, twitching. What the smurf kind of video game lets you do that?

And that ending, smurfing hell. That sort of sad, vaguely patriotic version of the MGS theme when Snake refuses the handshake and leaves the President's office while an oblivious Johnson stands and looks patriotic is such a powerful moment but nothing compared to what comes next.

The slow build up to an even sadder version of the MGS theme and it crescendos right as it shows you all those little moments throughout the game where you should've known, even just a grab of a rope bridge means everything. And that smurfing salute, it's more than I can stand. I still feel angry about what they did to the Boss and yet I know none of it is real, what more can I possibly say?

I mentioned Peace Walker earlier in the thread and even though the concept reverted back to MGS' beloved techno-nonsense, it was so cathartic to see The Boss get vindication and seeing her choose to sing instead of fight.

Pete for President

11-01-2017, 09:17 AM

I played through MGS3 again last year after like 6 years of not playing it and was surprised by how well it aged. No indicators, no mini-map, very barebones "you figure it out" design and I really really miss that in most modern games. The only gripes I have is that CQC is never quite as smooth and powerful as the cutscenes make it out to be, we spend a little too much time on our belly on harder difficulties and the Pain and the Fear had lackluster executions.

Other than that I love all the options this game gives you to tackle areas and boss fights. It's incredible how unique every jungle area feels despite being the same jungle. Love the transition into urban areas for change of pace. The warehouse and the lab before the End fight are my favourite areas.

I still want to do a "knife and fork only" run (save some boss fights).

Wolf Kanno

11-02-2017, 08:54 AM

1.

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Despite never really questioning where this would fall on my list, I haven't really spent much time thinking about what I was going to say about it. As you can probably tell from some of my more recent entries, "gushing endorsement" is not exactly my forte when writing commentary for something I love. What I can say is that Chrono Trigger may be the closest thing to a perfect game I've ever played next to MGS3. The few critiques I can give it either have forgivable explanations, people ignoring the game's adventure spirit and taking the time travel rules way too seriously, or really just comes down to a person's personal preference for what they want in a game. You may not need to like it, but it is one of the most tightly designed games that shows the pedigree of the crew that worked on it.

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I do oddly feel like I need to explain the plot a bit just because I know it's a bit like Xenogears and probably known better for it's reputation than the details. Chrono Trigger is the story of resident silent protagonist Crono, who travels to the Millennium Fair which is a year round celebration of not only the Kingdom's birth, but the 400 year anniversary of their victory over the Mystic Army led by the evil Dark Lord Magus. Crono quite literally bumps into a mysterious girl with a strange pendant named Marle and the two become quick friends as they explore the fair before going to see Crono's childhood friend Lucca's exhibit. Lucca is the daughter of the blacksmith, and the two both love to dabble in machines. They built a teleporter to showcase at the fair and use Crono as the guinea pig. Seeing the success, Marle wants to try it too, but the teleporter reacts to her pendant and instead of teleporting her between the two pods, opens a gate that swallows her up except for her pendant. Crono volunteers to go after her and uses the pendant to enter the gate. He finds himself in a strange medieval land that is under siege by a monster race called the Mystics and was recently in an uproar because the Queen went missing but recently was found again. Crono quickly realizes he's been sent back four hundred years into the past and is in his home country during the great war. Being granted special audience to meet the queen, Crono finds out that Leene is actually Marle who was mistaken for her ancestor because she's actually Princess Nadia from their timeline. Yet their reunion is cut short when Marle suddenly fades out of existence just as Lucca appears on the scene. It turns out that due to Marle being mistaken for her ancestor, her ancestor was never found and eventually killed, altering time and making Marle cease to exist. It then winds up being Crono's job to fix history. What transpires afterwards is a tale that jumps back and forth across the planet's great history where Crono will meet many figures from history and try his best to save the planet from a menace that will destroy the world in the distant future.

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With the exception of Link to the Past and Mega Man 2, some might find it surprising that my favorite game of all time isn't some thought provoking, pretentious and obscure Japanese only game, but instead a pretty idealistic swashbuckling adventure tale best known for being made by the Dream Team of Sakaguchi, Horii, and Toriyama as well as most of the development teams that worked on FFVI, VII, Xenogears, and Chrono Cross. More than any other game on this list, Chrono Trigger was a game that both inspired me and was just a complete joy for me from beginning to end. I mean I can't help but smile while I write this piece as I think about how wonderful this game is. I think maybe the reason why I am so enamored by it is due to the fact that the game was so damn ahead of it's time.

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Gameplay uses the ATB 2.0 system which was designed for better speed, which worked out perfectly with the game's new map and battle design that largely dropped random encounters and created a seamless transition into battle. Even more interesting is the game's use of space in regards to character abilities making the timing and clever use of your skills more important since you want to maximize the amount of potential damage you can do by waiting for the enemies to bunch together or perfectly line up for Flame Toss or Air Slash move. This gives battle a more organic feel as you balance eliminating enemies through speed or efficiency. The game also introduces Dual and Triple techs, which are not new to the genre, but never used as quite extensively as this title does so. By having characters learn and gain new combination attacks, you can build better synergy with certain party builds and the mechanics makes it more enticing to try out different combination builds. This was something I felt FFVI was trying to do with the unique skills system but largely fell a bit flat since people tended to stick with what worked best instead of open experimentation. It works better here cause the party is largely balanced pretty well against each other, though the game still has scenarios where certain parties excel over others like the magic-centric Ocean Palace or Ayla excelling during the Blackbird scenario. I also appreciate the fact the cast are all individuals with unique skills sets to set them apart and make them all feel unique. Crono is the perfect offense character, Marle is the perfect defense, Lucca is a strong mage build with crowd control, Robo is melee focus, but can actually do a little of everything if need be, Frog is a combat medic, Ayla is pure brute force character with the only thief skill, and Magus is the strongest offensive mage with the best versatility in elemental exploitation. If making this list has taught me anything, it's that I gravitate towards RPG systems where the characters are individuals in gameplay more than blank slates systems where I can make everyone into anything I want.

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With all the above said, the other thing I feel Chrono Trigger perfects from VI's design is better gameplay balance. In recent years, I realize that VI is best played with minimal grinding. You're meant to be constantly moving forward and never stopping to grind up skills, but the Esper system makes this a bit counter-intuitive so it doesn't take much to bork the game in your favor by stopping to level up once in awhile. CT solves this issue with the seamless battle system that makes it a bit more challenging to grind and the level design that encourages constant forward movement. I'm usually surprised how often I hear from other fans of the game how no one ever really grinded in this game. It's not that you can't but the game's design hides it better than you can in titles where you have to deal with random encounters. By playing the game in it's proper way, you'll find that CT has one of the best difficulty curves of any game Square has ever developed. Like the game never feels insurmountable but at the same time, it takes a long time before you feel like dropping skills for pure melee either, so the gameplay stays more focus and interesting throughout. About the one complaint I can give the battle system is that Triple Techs often feel awesome but impractical as many of them only unlock when you acquire some of the characters end game skills which are generally so powerful, it's more efficient to have everyone use them individually than waste everyone's turn to perform a triple tech that will do a third of the overall damage the former strategy could do, course Triple Techs are great on NG+ when you want to seriously punish a boss that gave you grief the first time around.

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Speaking of NG+, CT was not only one of the first JRPGs to utilize this function, but frankly designed the game around it in such a way to make it a more involving feature than other games that basically reduce it to "now you can just play for the plot". This comes into play with the game's central idea of altering history. The game is filled with small scenarios and a few one time only sequences that allow you to change history in smaller but still meaningful ways, the most famous being the ability to save Lucca's mother from being crippled. New players will often miss these elements the first time around unless they are using a guide (and why would you?) so NG+ gives a great chance to explore alternate scenarios. The bigger feature this adds is the ability to challenge the final boss at different times and thus change the game's ending. a handful of the endings are just glorified end credit scenes or some fourth wall breaking joke, but about half of them end up having the party alter history in strange and interesting ways that give focus to some of the cast and NPCs. I feel like it seals the deal on the game's whole time travel mechanic and gives this game loads of replay value which was something a bit unheard of at its time. In fact, that's one of the things I truly love about CT is that it's not a JRPG with time travel in the plot like say FF1 and VIII, it's an actual time travel story. In addition to getting engrossed in the stories of the character and individual time periods, the game slowly expands into you learning the general story of the planet itself. The game beautifully incorporates micro and macro level story telling to tell an epic tale which is something this team did later for Xenogears and Chrono Cross itself. It's kind of ingenious how quickly the game escalates from smaller stories into one larger piece. It's here we see the strengths of both Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy's writing styles really compliment each other. DQ has always had a more episodic feel to their games with the party dealing with individual tales across the world that only slowly over time begins to interconnect a bit. Final Fantasy is more about personal character stories that are punctuated with strong story moments that shift and change the focus of the story. CT incorporates both in a seamless fashion to make the story feel so much more compelling than you would think. You get engrossed into the stories of the individual characters or the time period only to have some major moment like Lavos wiping out the Reptites or Crono's death to change the tone and scale of the story and tie everything that had happened before together or jump up the magnitude of the story onto a both a grander and more personal scale. This alone is something I truly love about the game is how well it incorporates the strengths of both companies styles.

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Another aspect I love is the seamless way the game incorporates your actions in play-style to story moments. The Millennium Fair sequence in the opening and how it ties into Crono's trial later is such a mind-blowing moment for me, even more so than the Opera Scene in VI since you only learn in hindsight how you will be judged by simple actions and what you did and did not do during an innocent section of the game where you're likely to be just exploring and getting your bearings on everything. I find it amusing that both the trial and opera sequence were initially made or worked on by Kitase who added a cinematic flair, but it was Hiroyuki Ito who allegedly went back and added the more interactive moments to the game cause he found the sequences too boring when it was just text. The whole sequence is followed by the jail sequence which in another moment of great game design can either be played as a straight up dungeon with fights or played as a stealth section if you were careful enough and sneaked up on the guards to knock them out. I also love how there was an F-Zero knockoff racing sequence in the future and how you had to use time travel to accomplish later tasks like finding the Rainbow Shell, powering up the Moon Stone, or repairing Cyrus' grave. CT actually took the open ended sequence of the third act which Secret of Mana and FFVI had developed and finally perfected it in a way that combines the freedom to play the game at your own pace while also maintaining a strong story focus as your characters finish off the last few lingering plot threads within the story. The smaller cast makes it easier to write dialogue for all of them and so you don't have to deal with the impersonal voice of the lead like you did in VI.

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CT has one of my favorite casts of characters, and Crono himself may be my favorite silent protagonist in a game. While it doesn't take much to realize the truth about Marle, I loved how the story about her relationship with her father concludes and it was nice how much of the heart of the team she was. I have always been partial to Lucca since I love mad scientist type characters and it was a treat going back to her house to see if her dad came up with some new tech for her not to mention I love the fact she makes her own ultimate weapon. Her interlude with her mother is also one of the more emotional moments in the game for me. Frog is such a character and I love his tragic backstory and all the moments he has leading up to the battle with Magus. His reunion with his troubled spirit and him awakening the true power of the Masemune was also such a cool sequence for him. Robo certainly has some of the most emotional scenes in the game, it's hard going to the future since so many tragic things happen there and so much of it has to deal with Robo who just takes it in stride since he's always looking at the big picture, his revelation about the true mastermind of the hero's quests during the campfire sequence is still one of my favorite moments. Ayla is just a fun character, while the prehistoric era was the one that took the longest for me to truly appreciate, Ayla was always such a fun and spastic character due to her simple but straight forward nature. She combined the best elements of Sabin and Umaro from VI and I love the twist with her "weapon". Magus, well he's just awesome and the fact he's an optional character entirely was always a boon. His personal ending is one of my favorite alternate endings in the game and his story is easily the most tragic of the whole cast. He's definitely one of the best antagonists Square ever made and it's not hard to see how much he influenced future characters SE worked on. The fact he was pulled from CC cause the staff feared he would overtake the plot and player's interest alone is a testament of how impactful he is. Crono himself also gets special mention, while his personality is most projected onto him by the player, he's one of the earliest examples of a silent character getting some personality traits given to the player through both Akira Toriyama's artwork for the game, his expressions, and some of the endings which shows him to be a far more mischievous figure than usual for these types. What makes him stand out to me is his death, which caught me off guard when I played it and made me really appreciate him more when I had to continue on without him. It was such a gutsy move by Square and no one has ever really tried to do it again since.

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The villains and scenarios of the world themselves are also nice and I love how the game was able to kind of bring together so many cool scenarios and tie them all together, in fact Lavos is such a fantastic villain and the type not seen very often in the genre. You start off thinking it's some magical abomination made by Magus only to learn that's not true, then later you find out it's an extraterrestrial being sleeping within the planet, only to later find out it actually has intelligence and a larger scale goal than wanton destruction or survival. Lavos is one of the rare times game has created a Lovecraftian type antagonist and actually adhere to what makes such villains so intriguing. Lavos isn't just a creature that will eventually end the world, it's a creature that has irreversibly changed the course of all life on the planet and has tainted it for it's own purposes. While Crono and crew are fighting wars across time, they slowly learn that the real conflict has always been this alien's influence on the planet and it's evolution giving a grander scale to a being that never actually speaks within the story. The fact its appearance in the plot is always associated with the greatest shifts in the story and that Lavos has its own ending should the player die in battle against it just gives the being a greater sense of scope and impact that very few villains can quite match. I simply loved the idea of facing off against something that was intelligence and so far evolved to almost be incomprehensible that it has always been a bit difficult for me to go back to more chatty and humanistic villains. Not that CT isn't rife with such characters itself who all have their own interesting motives and story arcs, but I love how well Lavos kind of circumvents all of it.

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Lavos ultimately ties together one of my favorite things about the game which is watching the story move beyond Crono and his friend and instead tell the story of an entire world. CT's plot may seem simple but it merges these simple but effective dramas to create a larger and more involving epic about the history of mankind, the rise and fall of civilizations, and the eventual end of the planet itself. Watching how events from one era begins a domino effect of change that ripples throughout time is both intriguing and novel to bear witness to. The Kingdom of Zeal especially always struck me as a cool watershed moment because the game had been hinting to it all along and there were certain things about the world that never made sense until the big reveal of the lost era.

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Overall, Chrono Trigger is not as innovated as some of Square's other projects at the time, but it did take a lot of those ideas and perfect them. It built a game that greater than the sum of it's parts and I appreciate having a fun and idealistic adventure story I can plunge into and consume from beginning to end. I've played through this game more times than probably any other title on this list except maybe FFVI. This, along with VI are the only games I've ever liked enough to resort to true fan shenanigans like fan-fiction and I even tried to create a Chrono Table Top game in middle school. It's still one of the titles that really stirs my imagination and brings a smile to my face just thinking about it. I may even dust off my DS copy and start up a new playthrough. If you haven't had a chance to play this old relic of a masterpiece, I can't recommend it more, it's easily my favorite game of all time and when I started this list I didn't even hesitate to put it at number one. So that's my Top 100 Games list, thanks for reading! :wcanoe:
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Karifean

11-02-2017, 10:34 AM

Yeah alright... I'll play it ^^ if I get a chance to in the near future...

Loony BoB

11-02-2017, 01:59 PM

yeah I agree FFVII is the best game ever good list WK :up: :up:

Wolf Kanno

11-02-2017, 05:29 PM

Okay, so now that the list is complete, I'm curious to know which games people totally expected to be on this list but didn't show up? I may elaborate on why it didn't make it.

Pumpkin

11-02-2017, 05:57 PM

CT is an excellent game, good pick for #1!

Fynn

11-02-2017, 05:58 PM

Birth by Sleep!

Bubba

11-02-2017, 06:02 PM

I thought maybe Alundra? Underrated, but awesome. It would make my top 100

Psychotic

11-02-2017, 06:32 PM

I fucking love Chrono Trigger and indeed I love all three games in your top 3.

I don't know your opinion on the Persona series at all, so Fynn will no doubt come out and shout at me "omg of course WK doesn't love Persona 4!" but that's a title I've heard a lot of things about and thought it might be up there.

FFVII, of course! But for real, not ironically. I knew that it would not be in your top ten, but my perception was that you think it gets too much attention compared to its siblings but it was still up there as a great FF. I thought perhaps it could've been in the 70's to 100.

Del Murder

11-02-2017, 07:02 PM

I am surprised Persona 4 isn't there since it was pretty good and you like that series. Not surprised about your top choices, and they are great games. CT is one of the best games ever. I had it 50/50 if you would put FFVII on there. I don't know you well enough to know if you secretly loved it or not.

theundeadhero

11-02-2017, 07:17 PM

I was a bit surprised The Simpsons arcade game wasn't on the list. When I think of the great arcade games, X-Men, TMNT, and Simpsons are always on there, and you included the other two. Maybe you just didn't play it much.

It was also surprising Mass Effect was so close to 100, and that the other two games weren't on the list.

I also expected FFVII to be on the list. As much of a hard time as I give the game, it would be on mine somewhere.

Super Mario Bros. 2 being on the list was a pretty big surprise.

Since you've made the list, I replayed Shadow of the Colossus and actually finished it this time. It had been about a decade since my last attempt, and I wanted to see if now that I'm older I might get more out of the game. I can see the appeal but it just doesn't do much for me.

It also made me want to replay through the MGS series in order, minus 5. I have one sit-down left to finish 3 and then I'll move on to the original title.

Edge7

11-02-2017, 08:01 PM

Metal Gear Solid 3 and Chrono Trigger are both examples of games I played at the wrong time. In MGS3's case I had played it RIGHT after 1 and 2, so I was overwhelmed by the complete gameplay overhaul and was scared off. Fortunately, I lost a bet with a friend and I had to play through the game at least once, even if it was on Very Easy. So I plowed through the game with the EZ Gun, knowing I was depriving myself of the experience, but not really caring, and I don't think it really hit me how fun the game was until reaching Grozynj Grad. Upon beating the game, I immediately reloaded the game to play on normal. MGS3 is definitely the height of the series; the added complexity that had originally scared me off is one of its biggest draws, to say nothing of the level design! The one problem I have with every game to follow is the addition of a "shop" feature of one kind or another; there was a genuine sense of excitement exploring the jungles of Russia (?) and finding a powerful gun, or the crocodile hat. One of my biggest disappointments with MGSV is the extent to which I had to rely on Mother Base to progress. Ironically, Breath of the Wild feels more like the open world MGS3 I wanted than MGSV.

Chrono Trigger's time is coming. When I first played it, it was, unfortunately, the PS1 version. I feel like I could stop there, but it doesn't help that I was also feeling burnout from playing Final Fantasy throughout Middle School and High School. I also bought the DS version to play for a school trip, but at that point, I recall forcing myself to play the game because it was Chrono friggin' Trigger, and not because I was ready to play it. Additionally, despite the improved translation (imo. Sorry Woolsey, I still love your take on FFVI) and simpler UI, Chrono Trigger feels like such a console experience, I felt like I was missing something by NOT playing it on a TV while sitting on my couch (had a similar experience with A Link to the Past, which has since become tied with Majora as my favorite Zelda). Essentially what I'm getting at is I hope the Switch's Virtual Console library explodes soon (that, or I can get a SNES Classic and mod it to include CT).

Wolf Kanno

11-02-2017, 11:05 PM

Birth by Sleep!
BbS suffers from just enough issues to fall short of the list for me. Like many of SE's endeavors for the PSP, I just felt like the game deserved to be on better hardware and building the worlds to spec on even the PS2 could have saved the game from some of the more tedious retread of the scenario. My other issue is that along with KH2, BbS is sort of where I decided that I had indulged Nomura's batshit insane plot for the series enough. Dream Drop Distance killed my interest in the series but Ventus' plot thread along with all the bombshells from KH2 was already sending me there. With all that said, I did quite enjoy Aqua's story and Terra's was pretty good if a bit too predictable since I had kind of guessed he was the "Xehanort" from the earlier games once they showed his actual face. KH has always been a guilty pleasure of mine but not one I've ever taken as serious as some other titles.

I thought maybe Alundra? Underrated, but awesome. It would make my top 100

I missed out on Alundra, but it is a title I've been interested in for awhile. I actually made a thread (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/170865-Help-me-choose-a-game) a few months ago where I asked people what game I should pick up from PSN and it was a title I listed but it didn't get as much love as the other entries.

I smurfing love Chrono Trigger and indeed I love all three games in your top 3.

I don't know your opinion on the Persona series at all, so Fynn will no doubt come out and shout at me "omg of course WK doesn't love Persona 4!" but that's a title I've heard a lot of things about and thought it might be up there.

FFVII, of course! But for real, not ironically. I knew that it would not be in your top ten, but my perception was that you think it gets too much attention compared to its siblings but it was still up there as a great FF. I thought perhaps it could've been in the 70's to 100.

Okay, so P4 was a bit of a surprise for me too, and I think it was on the list but as I added games to it, it kept slipping lower and lower. Unlike the rest of the series, P4 has been an entry I've never really wanted to go back to after finishing it. I've played P3 a few more times since finishing P4, so the game never really grabbed me like it did other people and I kind of blame it on the fact that not only is the game kind of a poor mystery story, but the lack of drama among the cast didn't help either. Of anything, P4 felt so much like a "young people" game to me. Like I can feel for Kanji and the other people for their problems but it never really stopped me from always kind of chuckling to myself and thinking how much their issues felt more like high school problems to me. The bigger issues I had with the game was the awful gameplay decisions like adding an extra step to knocking down enemies, completely trivializing defensive gameplay options in favor of all out offense, how unbalanced the party felt, the dungeons going back to P2's borefest and the fact that money was a pain in the ass to accumulate in the game cause they opted for a loot system. I've been meaning to go through it again to see if my mind would change on it but it sadly doesn't take much to talk me out of it.

As for the great big pink elephant in the room, I did not snub VII to be edgy, and if my list had been built on pure objective principles, it would have made it to this list easily because I do feel VII has a lot of strong merits. The issue it came down to is that I don't have a lot of good memories or feelings about this game. It's not a title where thinking about the opening gives me a warm tingling feeling inside like some other titles on this list. I don't have any real nostalgia for it. Part of that is due to the fact that I did walk away from the game disappointed after my initial playthrough, an even larger part is the fact that when I think of VII, my first thought is just tiresome arguments I've had with fans over the years and while I've come around on my feelings about the game, this feeling of exhausted dread is my usual reaction to talking about it. So yeah, a lot of my issues is the fanbase in my past killed my enjoyment for it. I do still get moments of wanting to play it and stuff, but the game frankly doesn't do anything for me despite being an objectively good game.

I was a bit surprised The Simpsons arcade game wasn't on the list. When I think of the great arcade games, X-Men, TMNT, and Simpsons are always on there, and you included the other two. Maybe you just didn't play it much.

It was also surprising Mass Effect was so close to 100, and that the other two games weren't on the list.

I also expected FFVII to be on the list. As much of a hard time as I give the game, it would be on mine somewhere.

Super Mario Bros. 2 being on the list was a pretty big surprise.

Since you've made the list, I replayed Shadow of the Colossus and actually finished it this time. It had been about a decade since my last attempt, and I wanted to see if now that I'm older I might get more out of the game. I can see the appeal but it just doesn't do much for me.

It also made me want to replay through the MGS series in order, minus 5. I have one sit-down left to finish 3 and then I'll move on to the original title.

Funny story about the Simpsons arcade, my first job had the machine and I eventually just grew sick and tired (along with the rest of the staff) listening to the machine run that we eventually shut it down. I do like the game, but by the time it started popping up more in the arcade scene, I was getting more invested in console gaming, platforms and the budding fighting game scene.

Part of the issue with Mass Effect was the fact the games got less interesting as the series went on, and the heavier Third Persona shooter focus and the heavy streamlining of the non-dialogue option RPG elements made plaything through the later games more of a chore for me since I'm not really big into shooter type games. I liked the characters and setting, but not enough to debate whether I would name my kids Garrus or Tali. The other issue is that the games were competing with entries I was very familiar with, whereas ME is something I've only played through once, and I have too many unplayed titles to convince myself to give the series a second run. Hell, I was so burnt out from ME2 that it took me about two years to get around to playing ME3. The gameplay though is the largest factor because while I love the dialogue choices, the heavy shooter combat and the general lack of real exploration in the sequels kind of killed my interest in the franchise. It's why I use the analogy of ME1 feeling like a novel while the sequels felt like streamlined action film adaptions of the rest of the story.

Metal Gear Solid 3 and Chrono Trigger are both examples of games I played at the wrong time. In MGS3's case I had played it RIGHT after 1 and 2, so I was overwhelmed by the complete gameplay overhaul and was scared off. Fortunately, I lost a bet with a friend and I had to play through the game at least once, even if it was on Very Easy. So I plowed through the game with the EZ Gun, knowing I was depriving myself of the experience, but not really caring, and I don't think it really hit me how fun the game was until reaching Grozynj Grad. Upon beating the game, I immediately reloaded the game to play on normal. MGS3 is definitely the height of the series; the added complexity that had originally scared me off is one of its biggest draws, to say nothing of the level design! The one problem I have with every game to follow is the addition of a "shop" feature of one kind or another; there was a genuine sense of excitement exploring the jungles of Russia (?) and finding a powerful gun, or the crocodile hat. One of my biggest disappointments with MGSV is the extent to which I had to rely on Mother Base to progress. Ironically, Breath of the Wild feels more like the open world MGS3 I wanted than MGSV.

Chrono Trigger's time is coming. When I first played it, it was, unfortunately, the PS1 version. I feel like I could stop there, but it doesn't help that I was also feeling burnout from playing Final Fantasy throughout Middle School and High School. I also bought the DS version to play for a school trip, but at that point, I recall forcing myself to play the game because it was Chrono friggin' Trigger, and not because I was ready to play it. Additionally, despite the improved translation (imo. Sorry Woolsey, I still love your take on FFVI) and simpler UI, Chrono Trigger feels like such a console experience, I felt like I was missing something by NOT playing it on a TV while sitting on my couch (had a similar experience with A Link to the Past, which has since become tied with Majora as my favorite Zelda). Essentially what I'm getting at is I hope the Switch's Virtual Console library explodes soon (that, or I can get a SNES Classic and mod it to include CT).

Glad you got into MGS3 eventually, I love this game as you can tell. I can get behind your feelings about CT and not only that feeling it's a console title, which is an issue I have with the DS version as well, but also just having bad timing with a game.