View Full Version : Once More I Try To Finish FFVI But...

Forsaken Lover
07-18-2017, 08:12 PM
See, I just bought FFXII HD so it makes sense I'm playing 1/2 FFXII.

I was talking with some people elsewhere about how mindnumbingly boring FFVI's sgameplay is and I think that is what always killed the game for me. Farthest I've ever made it is Setzer joining and my memory of the story characters goes only up to the Phantom Train and that whole "three parties" segment.

But I am determined to beat it this time. And if I said that some other time, sorry. Things are different this time. Someone recommended I play FFVI with mods. I love me some difficulty mods. They made me like FFIX's combat whereas I used to think it was total ass. (even back when I raved about the story I thought the battle system was dull. That's changed thanks to some mods)

So I have started up Final Fantasy VI: Brave New World. I know it has some script alterations. I was considering playing this other mod called EvilType but BNW sounds more interesting.

So I just have to hope the new translations and jokes are incidental. I can live with the Soul Train saying "there ain't no gettin' off this train you're on!"

"Clear" will not make "Doom" work on bosses, though - that sort of douchebaggery doesn't fly here anymore.

I wonder if this is a reference to the original game or an older version of BNW.

Rage sounds pretty interesting. I remember I once asked somebody the difference between Gau and a Blue Mage. Taking on the actual properties of the enemy he is copying is pretty unique. I've certainly never encountered anything like it in other FF games.

My Find Terra Team is Celes, Cyan, Gau and Sabin. Locke said something about a promise but he's kind of boring as a character and useless as a combatant so he can stay here.

So I let Terra and Edgar wipe out most of Kefka's forces before taking my main trio of Celes, Gau and Cyan against Kefka himself but I am noticing that, in spite of Gau being interesting, he has no fucking HP. True, he is at the lowest level of everyone in my party but he's only one level behind Celes yet she has 100 more HP. Gau's pathetic 150 HP is not really workable here from what I've seen. He was eating dirt for the last stretch of that Kefka fight. And this was my second attempt at Kefka because Kefka kept killing Gau in Round 1 and I kept futilely trying to revive him. I am grateful for the fact that my party being wiped only meant I got them all back with 1 HP and had to try again. The thought of running that whole gauntlet again was rather depressing so good game design here.

But yeah, several hours in, I've died lots, also having a lot of fun. I think I can probably go the distance this time around. I certainly can't remember being this invested in the story or gameplay before. I think the fact I have dropped the "so this is the best FF ever, huh?" attitude is probably helping.

Forsaken Lover
07-19-2017, 03:06 AM
Just finished Zozo. On the topic of BNW translation, I am fairly certain the enemies in the SNES or GBA version were not called "Junkie" and "Hobo" and random NPC's weren't saying "I get my Welfare check! Hooray for getting paid for doing nothing!" Zozo is problematic in any event, though. I don't blame the BNW designer for this.

Still fucking love it, though. I remembered little about this game but I didn't forget ol' Zozo.


The whole place is beautifully designed and the atmosphere is perfect. Music, scenery, it's quite impressive how "cinematic" even a SNES game can be.

I ended up ditching Sabin due to the note about Shadow being recruitable if you only have three characters. Had my first kind of strategic boss, the dude right before Terra has Haste and Regen on and you gotta do something about that. I no longer had Sabin but Gau to the rescue with Bomb Sap. Lovin' this game so much.

Shadow: "...you guys are insane." -wanders off- Very glad I got him.

Ain't too much I can say about the story and stuff. Ramuh being a sort of spirit guide was something FFIX took from this game, I guess. I vaguely recall Terra's backstory which I think is explained by the time you finish the eMagitek Facility. I'm looking forward to getting passed there so I can actually get on to all new content for me. I of course know the vague stuff about what happens with Kefka being the real villain, World of Ruin, etc. but the specifics are all a blank so this is exciting.

Gotta watch out, I hear Celes and Shadow can die. Dunno how or when (nobody tell me!) but I'll keep my eye peeled.

Oh and of course I got these Espers now. That should change up gameplay a bit. I'm honestly mostly interested in their passive abilities like preventing certain status effects. Now I can take off the Relics guarding against those status effects and put on something better.

07-19-2017, 08:07 AM
Glad you're giving it a second go! Funnily enough, I'm in the exact same situation. Started playing this a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Unfortunately, I moved house and put it down. Never got back into it. Started it again recently and have enjoyed it so much more this time around. I knew the final dungeon involves splitting up into three teams so I've been giving all my characters regular rotation. They are all above level 50 apart from Umaro.

I'm 62 hours in and many of those have involved getting Gau's rages! I think I've done everything now except the final battle with Kefka. Just readying myself for the final assault!

Forsaken Lover
07-19-2017, 06:52 PM
Glad you're giving it a second go! Funnily enough, I'm in the exact same situation. Started playing this a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Unfortunately, I moved house and put it down. Never got back into it. Started it again recently and have enjoyed it so much more this time around. I knew the final dungeon involves splitting up into three teams so I've been giving all my characters regular rotation. They are all above level 50 apart from Umaro.

I'm 62 hours in and many of those have involved getting Gau's rages! I think I've done everything now except the final battle with Kefka. Just readying myself for the final assault!

Well if you've done everything, that would mean beating the superboss or whatever right? Kefka is probably toast.

And I have done it, I have made it back to my furthest playthrough of FFVI.

Fuck that forced boss fight as your first battle with Setzer in your party and right after another boss fight with no chance to save in-between. Also no healers. I ended up Save Stating because I'm a pussy and did not want to do it all over again for a fourth time. Near as I can tell, the secret is to use one of Setzer's Triple Slots techniques and that makes you absorb the attacks they were using? All I know is that they countered Gau's and Cyan's special abilities but once I finally managed to get some...I dunno what you call 'em, "3-in-a-row" , the moves started healing my party instead of annihilating them. I think I got Earth Wall because of one of the Slots techniques and maybe that counter the bosses use is an Earth move? Don't really care, just glad it's over with.

So Setzer is pretty cool and I like his playstyle so he might be a new mainstay in my party. Terra is in to replace Celes but man she is underleveled as hell right now. Can't be my party healer with no MP.

IMaybe it just takes a long, long, LONG time to learn spells in this but I've had Espers on my party for a while now, they're "EL" is Level 8, but they haven't learned a single Magic ability yet. I think BNW seriously alters the Esper system so I may need to just look that up again.

Now...story stuff.


Elder Esper: No.

Terra: Mommy, Daddy, whatcha doing?


Emperor: Thanks to this dumb little girl and contrivance, I can still succeed!

That was all very goofy, I'm sorry.

And before that, we had Cid saying "I tortured and killed these beings for years and subjected newborn babies to mad science experiments but now I feel really bad about it years and years later." Fuck off, Worst Cid.

And Locke keeping a preserved corpse around...yikes.

Is everyone in this game crazy except, I dunno, Cyan and Shadow? Maybe Celes?

Also I didn't mention it earlier but is Sabin supposed to be a very typical meathead and kinda dumb?

Opera music is still beautiful. I hear the translation is different from Woolsey to GBA. Dunno if it's significant but, well, as one of the most memorable scenes of this game, I guess almost any change to it would be "significant."

But yeah, I'm pumped to enter uncharted waters. I know it sounds like I'm making fun of the game but I am enjoying myself and am eager to see where all this goes.

I might be losing my Internet later so that will suck. But figure I'll leave at least one last report and maybe ge tsome feedback before that happens.

07-19-2017, 08:23 PM
I've only played a bit of BNW, but a friend has told me that there are some serious BS moments with some bosses. Also, it's an entirely new gameplay system, some characters play differently, some stats do different things, entire characters have different mechanics, and Esper Levels were created so that min maxers wouldn't have to avoid level grinding until they had access to the Esper Stat bonuses. There's also an issue with the translation having moments of being... juvenile?

Anyway, regarding the original FFVI, I think it ties with IX in that it has the most check marks for what Final Fantasy fans want out of an entry in the series, but I also have this problem where combat in both games can feel a little tedious. Also not a fan of how either game handles character progression. They make up for it with some great character writing, music and set pieces though. Glad you've been enjoying this revisit!

07-19-2017, 08:29 PM
I'm also in a 'need to play FFVI' boat. Never finished it, but I'll jump back on that boat at some point!

Forsaken Lover
07-19-2017, 10:41 PM
I've only played a bit of BNW, but a friend has told me that there are some serious BS moments with some bosses. Also, it's an entirely new gameplay system, some characters play differently, some stats do different things, entire characters have different mechanics, and Esper Levels were created so that min maxers wouldn't have to avoid level grinding until they had access to the Esper Stat bonuses. There's also an issue with the translation having moments of being... juvenile?

Anyway, regarding the original FFVI, I think it ties with IX in that it has the most check marks for what Final Fantasy fans want out of an entry in the series, but I also have this problem where combat in both games can feel a little tedious. Also not a fan of how either game handles character progression. They make up for it with some great character writing, music and set pieces though. Glad you've been enjoying this revisit!

Yeah, I'm figuring out the Esper stuff now. Dummy me, I could have had Cyan learn Cure which would have helped a lot during the Celes-less segments at the end. But oh well, at least I got it figured out now. It was pretty simple, I just expected to learn spells naturally when I had the Esper equipped instead of having to earn Spell Points and then buying them.

I went and got Gau some more Rages. Apparently BNW removed most of them which were useless anyway I guess? Also recruited Mog, probably won't ever use him.

As for the "most Final Fantasy" Final Fantasy game, it's funny you mention the two steampunk FF's and not the "modern" entries or the more medieval entries. VII will always be the FF game for me since it was my first. (and the fact it's really good)

Forsaken Lover
07-20-2017, 08:17 AM
So stopping for tonight and might not see you all for a while.

First and foremost, I ran into a really weird bug, my first all game. 20 hours in, I'm sure you can understand my distress. Attack animations from enemies wouldn't show up, we would just take damage. Furthermore, characters would be reduced to 0 HP but still stand and could be healed after battle instead of revived first. Finally, one of the random guards that fights you in the Imperial Castle will cause the game to freak out and basically crash.

Alarmed, I tried to figure out why this was all happening now after everything has gone so smoothly. At last I realized the only recent addition was me buying Dice and Darts for Setzer. I'm not sure if it was pairing these two up, or one of them specifically causing the issues, but once I got Setzer wielding Demonsbane and a Targe again, all the problems disappeared.

So that's nice.

In terms of story, not sure what to say. The Cave to the Gate was an obvious ploy by the enemy given that the base right before the cave was conspicuously deserted. Our heroes in these games really need to stop breaking trhough enchanted barriers because all it does is let the bad guys through.

Only...I guess not. Espers kicked Kefka's and the whole Empire's ass. Now we're whining and dining with the Emperor himself like he hadn't been an evil power-hungry and murderous monster. Why would any of the Returners eat a thing prepared by their mortal enemies?

I only managed to get the Emperor to have his troops leave Doma an South Figaro. I have no idea what this does. I guess I'll find out later. I was wondering what was up with all the timing and questions, anyway so I'm glad the game didn't make me wait.

So I've had a couple dream sequences with Billy and Clyde. I thought at first it was something silly put in by the modder but the last one talked about their duo being called "Shadow." So are these actually from the game? Shadow's real name is...um, I think he was Clyde?

Locke and Celes are having a lovers' tiff. Although I really get the feeling Terra likes Locke? Never heard about this love triangle. Then again, maybe I never heard nothing because it doesn't exist. This ain't no FFVII.
But the remixed opera music for when Locke tried to talk to Celes was beautiful and then Locke was a jackass and rebuffed Celes when she tried to say something on the ship.

Overall, things are happening, still having fun, wondering when exactly Gestahl will just give up this transparently bullshit ploy and try to murder us again.

Are there optional Espers?

Forsaken Lover
07-20-2017, 07:42 PM
Yay, two more party members. I'm not too wild about either of them. I think I'm gonna stick with Cyan, Setzer and Gau. I might bring in Strago and Relm every now and then but I mean, I now have three characters who just mimic the enemy. I'd rather have Gau. He's the only one who has Auto-Life at present. Or Rerise I guess it's called here. (It's so weird seeing things I know clearly from other FF games but with different names, like Muddle instead of Confusion)

And Gestahl was lying the whole time, I'm shocked. So ends General Leo, a guy I heard way too much about back in the day. Since we were comparing VI with other games earlier, I've seen Beatrix praised as what Leo could have ben and I agree with that assessment. Although Beatrix still seems to me far more ruthless than Leo here.

I will say though, I had my first sort of genuine emotional reaction to a plot development. Kefka slaughtering the Espers was sad and made me angry. Gonna fuck that clown up. In about a billion hours. But you know, I can see why Terra's mom just booked it for another dimension. I wonder if this game is going for Humans Are the Real Monsters like Chrono Cross.

Anyway, just got the Floating Continent now. Worried about how underleveled most of the gang is but I'm content to stick to may fearsome foursome of Celes, Cyan, Setze and Gau for now. Well, I can only have three characters at present for some reason but you get me.

Celes is my favorite character in the game alongside Cyan. They both have good designs and backstories. I like how they play, too. I hear Cyan is total garbage in the regular version of VI and that makes me sad. Here, he is one of my best consistent damage dealers. Love all that HP, too. And Celes has Runic which was useful in the past but I imagine will become even better in future.

I forgot to ask, is there ever an "explanation" for Ultros? Is he affiliated with the Empire or is he just a jerk that keeps following us?

He mentioned that swordsman from the Phantom Train who took some treasure forever ago. I was wondering if I'd ever hear from him again.

edited 20th Jul '17 11:41:52 AM by Nikkolas

07-20-2017, 09:36 PM
[QUOTE=Edge7;3670704]As for the "most Final Fantasy" Final Fantasy game, it's funny you mention the two steampunk FF's and not the "modern" entries or the more medieval entries. VII will always be the FF game for me since it was my first. (and the fact it's really good)

For some reason, it's become cool to hate on FFVII like it was never good; which sucks, because the game's held up super well in many aspects!

Steampunk seems to be the happy medium between "High Fantasy" and "Science Fiction", doesn't it? But yeah, whenever I see most people talk about what the "best" Final Fantasy is, it's usually VI and IX nowadays. Which makes sense to me, those games have a great deal of variety in environments and set pieces, they have stories with a little bit for everyone, I've always been a fan of how each game looked (I especially love the boss designs in VI) and my playthrough of IX so far has some of my favorite dialogue in the series.

But anyway, regarding FFVI:

Celes is my favorite character too; her and Sabin are my party mainstays. Cyan's awesome in the vanilla game, but his Bushido skills take WAAAAY longer to charge. I have a good friend who loves Cyan that said that you're supposed to charge Cyan's techs while other character's animations are going, but that sounds more like making due with a poor design choice than what the developers actually intended...

I wouldn't be too worried about party members being under leveled, it's pretty easy to bring em back up to snuff if you know where to grind (though that may be different in BNW). What I DO know is that BNW is balanced so that Strago and Relm are supposed to be the dedicated Magic Users (as opposed to balanced Mage Knights like Celes and Terra, who I believe in this version can't learn Osmose). However, I'm only at the Returner's base in that mod, so I can't say for sure, this is going off of what I remember from the mod's Readme.

To address a couple story-related questions you asked, the Shadow flashbacks are in the original game, Terra doesn't show any romantic attraction for anyone in the game (I'm like 90% sure she's asexual), Ultros is just some recurring jerk. He has no bearing to the plot, he just likes to get in your way. Also, don't worry about Siegfried/Ziegfried, he might be FF's largest Big Lipped Alligator Moment. Moreso than Gogo

07-21-2017, 07:33 AM
Yeah, I think that Ultros is just a comedy villain. Glad your pushing on with this. I know what you mean about too many mimic characters. Gau has some really useful rages but Strago and Relm I've had learning some heavy spells like Ultima and Flare.

Forsaken Lover
07-21-2017, 01:04 PM
Well, I did it. Thank you for the advice, Hashi. You can thankfully get Slow back on him even after the second phase starts but he's tricky and at one point he will randomly rebuff, getting Protect, Shell and Haste again. I think he only does this once while in the second phase though so thank God for that.

I finally said smurf the stats and put on status effect protecting equipment. I dunno if I was just lucky or not but nothing really hit me this time around except for one time when Cyan was Muddled and then killed Celes with his prepared Dragon. That was worrying but I managed to pull it off.

Another thing i noted very early on is that, while your natural instinct would be to cast your best Ice spell, don't do that unless you are prepared to heal immediately because AW will counter every use of Ice 3 with a powerful attack that hits the whole party. It's not even worth it. Once yu have Slow on him and Haste on everyone else (yay for Sprint Shoes) it's pretty easy to keep up with his damage and you just have to watch out for Mind Blast or Glare (hits someone with Stone)

Half the day spent failing yesterday, i wake up today and win on my first try.

Will anyone begrudge me the fact I am, for the first time all game, abusing save states? I beat Atma and then immediately died in the escape from the Floating Continent because I wasted minutes trying to kill the reoccurring enemy with regular attacks instead of using Celes' new Shock. So...I'm dumb. Then my next attempt I ran for it, semi-conscious of the whole "Shadow can die here" thing but seeing no way to save him so Iwasn't sure. Then I got to the end and said "Jump" or "Not without Shadow" and I realized I smurfed up. So time ran out that tattempt.

Then I went to Google to just look up how to save Shadow. So I am a filthy cheater in many ways. How the smurf is anyone new to the game supposed to know any of this and not immediately die or lose Shadow?



Forsaken Lover
07-21-2017, 06:51 PM
Okay, now let's talk Plot.

Having been active on FF forums since 2003, as well as having been a huge Kuja fanboy since then, I have naturally read all about Kefka. He and Sephiroth are usually Kuja's main competition when it comes to Best Villain. I know Kefka becomes a god and whatnot but I've also heard one detractor who said Kefka is just an opportunistic shit and that's really how it looks to me. The idiot gave Celes a weapon, she fucked him up, and he was like "I got these all-powerful statues behind me... Maybe they can help me not die." I don't get the impression this was all part of some Grand Evil Plan.

Speaking of which, it sure is convenient you hear absolutely nothing of the Warring Triad until the area right before the Floating Continent. Been hearing about Espers all game, the War of the Magi all game, but apparently there were three goddesses who were making and wrecking stuff on a far worse scale but they aren't discussed until they are introduced to give an excuse to fuck up the world and somehow grant Kefka all this power. And nobody said a thing about taking all their power, just that moving the statues will fuck up the very surface of the planet. How Kefka somehow absorbed all their power is beyond me, unless it was a side-effect of Shadow pinning him with the statue.(which would lend more credence to the idea Kefka is just a lucky SOB instead of an evil genius)

But yeah, I suppose, as possibly the part of the game I know most about, that whole scene was kind of ruined for me.Probably a lot more effective if you know less about the game.

I'm loving this Celes focus, though. Controlling her in the WOR is unexpected.I now know why I thought she died. I had heard about her suicide if you let Cid die and I accidentally did let Cid die. I have no idea how, maybe it's just time-based. But I reloaded and got him thoe damned fish and now "Grandad" is alive. The suicide scene was probably better, if only for the music.

But clearly Celes is the main character and Terra fans need to get stuffed!!!!! (seriously, I've seen some pretty heated debates on this topic)

Also why can Celes use Runic again? What happened to Shock?

Forsaken Lover
07-22-2017, 05:51 AM
Just got the Falcon and followed a bird ("o...kay") with Sabin, Edgar and Setzer.Is it jus tme or did the writing take a turn for the way better come the World of Ruin?

Barring some stress early on about Sabin being underleveled, and never gaining any levels because I stupidly left EXP Gain off ever since Floating Continent (something the modder warns you not to do. I am the worst), I've been having a great time. The music and scenery change is very atmospheric(although all these towns seem remarkably intact for being zapped by beams of death and continents shifting or whatever) and I'm loving having Celes at the center of things, exploring the world after a year of tyranny by a maniacal clown. ,Music is vital to any story in a game IMO and the new town theme is especially wonderful.

I loved the reintroduction to Edgar but man, finding Setzer blows it out of the water. I've mentioned this before but it's remarkable how cinematic a SNES game can be. Walking down those stairs while Setzer's memories appear as images in the background is amazingly effective. Capped off by the fantastic Falcon theme.

A long time ago, someone elsewhere made a thread titled "Kefka is so evil, he even killed the grass!" I'm guessing this is a reference to the women vainly trying to grow plants in the one town while wondering that even the plants have given up hope. It's a nice little bit of dialogue and I'm making sure to talk to every NPC now, something I never did before.

Doom Gaze is a pretty rad name. Probably shouldn't mess with him for the time being.

I ran into Ziegfried again while looking for Edgar but then he vanished....

A funny coincidence happened. I was thinking about some of the stats I pumped up with Esper Levels in this game. I don't think that's in the original. Anyway, here, you can improve stuff like Edgar's HP via one Esper while a different Esper improves Speed or whatever. You could theoretically just dump every EL into HP. Anyway, at the Colosseum, Ultros is hanging out and will reset all your EL's for 25,000 GP. It's a nice touch and I appreciate the fact it exists. Find yourself at the endgame and that youve built a character so wrong they die a lot or are otherwise useless, you have the option to rebuild them and make them better. Thumbs up to the creator for that.

I myself have pumped all my EL into Celes' Magic because why would you even want her to be a physical powerhouse. I don't think I've once even put her in armor, I just use the mage clothing. I wonder what Celes' class is, some sort of Red Mage?

Anyway, I'm stopping for now 'cuz I'm hungry .But holy trout, I have probably enjpoyed this day of FFVI more than most any other day thus far.


I keep intending to stop for the night but the game is so good and I knew all the party members weren't mandatory. I was given some vague directions on another board about the upper right of the map which has tough enemies. I was busy fighting this tough enemy when it ate me and put me in the dungeon. Lots of awesome loot and GP in addition to getting Gogo. Gotta find Umaro next before returning to the main recruitments.

Upon some more reflection, I might be dropping Gau from my main team. I mean, I still intend to use him, but Rages are a liability during a really tough fight, as Atma showed. I need to control everyone, not have a quarter of my team on Autopilot.

Also I randomly fought Doom Gaze. It wasn't that bad but he ran away so I assume it's sort of like the first run-in with Ultima Weapon in VII and he was going easy on me.

07-24-2017, 07:35 PM
The World of Ruin is kinda what sold FFVI for me. I enjoyed the whole ride, but everything from "Searching for Friends" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96wnpkcZIYw) to that twilight skyline, to the non linear approach to gameplay is what really makes it special.

07-24-2017, 09:58 PM
I guess playing the game and tailoring it to how you wanna to make it more fun is what it's all about. I personally loved FFVI just how it was. I am trying to play through it a 2nd time on my mobile phone and am still in the early stages of the game, but love going for 100% of everything.

Good luck on your journey!!

Forsaken Lover
07-25-2017, 01:41 AM
The World of Ruin is kinda what sold FFVI for me. I enjoyed the whole ride, but everything from "Searching for Friends" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96wnpkcZIYw) to that twilight skyline, to the non linear approach to gameplay is what really makes it special.

The new town theme is also absolutely perfect.

The band's all ball back together again. (and Gogo and Umaro are there too) I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed there was no cutscene or anything. Like, just a sentimental bonus for if you got everyone where they say "we're all here, it's very special, now let's go kick Kefka's ass!" (it would be BNW Relm saying this. Did she talk so crass in the original and they just spiced it up?) Dialogue from the party in WOR largely consists of words in quotes with no specific speaker attached. I guess we can maybe rule out Cyan and Gau but that doesn't narrow it down too much.This is probably why someone might prefer WOB to WOR. The former is a..."tighter and more focused" story. That's usually a good thing, like FFX or VII. But for this game, everything is built up just so it can be torn down and then built up again. Sure Locke or whoever might have a larger number of moments to their name in the World of Balance but the most memorable moments for damn near everyone come in the World of Ruin.

And I still have a lot of gamee left, I have no idea what might happen.

I have settled on my final main team. Celes (naturally), Cyan, Sabin and Strago. I've loved Celes and Cyan ever since my first few aborted runs of FFVI and they remain interesting and fun to play. Sabin grew on me while grinding him and various other B-listers up so he got promoted. His Imp skill was very useful against the "Master T" which confounded me with its constant counter that did 2000-3000 damage until I experimented some. I took my new team through the Ancient Castle and whaddya know, Odin goes with Strago. It all comes together. Once Strago had some levels and stat boosts and learned a few new nifty Lores, he's pretty good. I foresee every future boss fight starting with Sabin Suplexing to get Slow on them and Strago following it up with Bad Breath to get Poison and/or Sap on them.

Speaking of boss fights, the dragon before Odin was the first challenge I've had i n a while. It was refreshing. I apparently have 5 more Dragons to beat? I had no idea there are 5 more optional dungeons scattered around.... And if I'm reading th Espers menu right, there are six more of those I'm missing, too.

I thought that Tower was Kefka's place? It isn't the final dungeon or a way into teh final dungeon? I guess I have my next destination in mind. Thre's also that Rock place north of Thamasa which I accidentally read is related to Strago, I think.

I beat Atma in this mod with ease. Dunno if he was weakened or not from original but early Level 30 team demolished him.

Took me forever to find Strago as I'm convinced he's literally the only party member no one in the entire world gives a hint about where he is.

Got Shadow back after an NPC said he went to the Colosseum and then an NPC there said a ninja wanted an item. I started a battle and sure enough, there he was. In more interesting news, I found the Phoenix Cave a day or so ago but you needed two teams and I had nobody outside my main team worth a damn. Well, now I do. More importantly, I was stymied about where my remaining party members could be. Up until now, it's all been pretty straightforward but I heard nothing about Locke or Strago Then I stopped into see the Herbalist and he said "Locke is out hunting treasure!"

I was annoyed at first but then thought "hey... I got this place that I was led to by a treasure map. Maybe..." Once I started finding all the empty chests, my hopes grew and in the end, I was of course rewarded with Locke and a new Esper. That scene between him and Rachel was beautiful and got my eyes a little misty. Once again, World of Ruin is a whole other league in terms of storytelling to the World of Balance.

Forsaken Lover
07-26-2017, 09:53 PM
And it's over. I'm really tired and hungry and my fingers kinda hurt. I'll post my thoughts later when my eyes can stay open and my stomach isn't growling.

For the time being, suffice it to say that the final boss was quite an artistic triumph. I know people say Sephiroth ripped off Kefka or whatever but I don't see it unless they mean just looking somewhat angelic. I loved the various stages of the Kefka battle, how you ascended and and how the music changed each stage. I haven't a clue what those things were but I think the third one ("Peace?") was my favorite. That's where I had to reset during my first and only failure because Strago had died right at the end of the last stage and I guess they are "nice" and shove in someone to replace whoever is KO'ed at the end of one of the stages. Only they gave me Terra who had no equipment and was useless.

But yeah, the ascension thing and all of it is very different from Bizarro, Safer and "real" Sephiroth. Very different thematically too I feel in spite of the typical hero "we all have something to live for" speeches. Sephiroth is notable for his absolute silence during the entire ending while Kefka was of course anything but.

But yeah, overall thoughts on my entire 80 hour playtrhough will have to wait. But spoilers! I think it was a pretty good game.

Forsaken Lover
07-27-2017, 03:34 AM
So let's do this thing.

First off, while grinding up Shadow's levels, I rested a lot at inns and thus saw a few more dreams. I saw him leave Billy and I saw him wind up at Thamasa. Something I didn't mention arlier was that I went to Thamasa on my own before the story took me there and when you do that, no NPC will say much of anything to you because you're a stranger. So I wondered about who I needed to have in my party to get them to opn up to me. Wouldn't you know it, when you arrive with Shadow, everyone becomes a lot more chatty. I'm not even sure if most of them know him at all but it's a nice and subtle thing about his past that ties in with that dream sequence many people might never see.

Did Shadow go off to die at the end? That seems a rather bleak ending considering everyone else's.... FFVI ends on a distinctly hopeful note. Despite the loss of magic and general state of the world, there is hope for a brighter future.

One thing I noticed in the WOR is that thre's no real talk of the Returners. I can't help the VI and VII comparison but it reminds me of how the AVALANCHE identity also gets left in the dust. True, the Returners were anti-Empire just like AVALANCHE was anti-Shinra, and both of those groups are meaningless next to Kefka and Sephiroth, but it still feels like something that should have been touched upon. For instance, I didn't hear trout about Bannon or what became of him. I did my best to keep him alive in a couple prety notable segments and for a decent stretch of gameplay but he just fades away never to be mentiond again. (so far as I saw)

And why did the Warring Triad fight me? I thought they gave up their destructive ways. They should be helping us against Kefka if they are now somehow freed again.

I'm glad that recruiting everyone did have some notable changes to cutscenes. At least, if you fail to re-recruit Terra or whatever, is the ending stuff any different? But at the very least, it was a nice change of pace when, before first entering Kefka's Tower, our heoes wonder what will become of Terra once magic is gone from the world. She doesn't say anything though when the "camera" shifts over to her and sometimes silence is worth a thousand words. Nice touch.

I used to really not care for Kefka's theme. It was no "Those Chosen by the Planet" which is very ominous and intimidating. I looked at Kefka's theme like I lookd at the story and Kefka himself. "This is supposed to be profound or impressive? It's a damn joke." And therein lies the brilliance which I finally appreciated when the theme starts playing before the final battle. As our heroes give their reasons for soldiering on in spite of the odds, Kefka's reaction and that music kicking in is just perfectly demented. It is a joke - a cruel, cruel joke. Hearing that song play as he wrecks the world and laughs at us is really effective at making it a lot less silly and a lot more disturbing.

Speaking of music, I usually include my favorite tracks in these ending commentaries because music is a vital part of any truly great game. My favorite songs....

Cyan's Theme

Terra's Theme

Relm's Theme

The Decisive Battle

Slum Shuffle ("Zozo? Never heard of it!")

The Day After and Searching For Friends (when you first hear these songs after entering a WoR town and getting the Falcon, I knew for a fact things would never be the same. They would be so much better)

The Magic House (Jidoor's new theme. I don't think I've ever heard talk about this song and it's so absolutely amazing)

Fanatics (better than the actual final dungeon music)

Something occurs to me so I have to write it down. It's yet another FFVII and FFVI comparison. In FFVII, most battles have regular battle music and victory fanfare. That's fine so far as it goes but for dungeons adn stuff? They really should have kept with FFVI's style. Keep dungeon music going during fights and maybe even omit teh celebratory poses. For video games, it's all about immersion and keeping that consistent dungeon theme really helps set a mood. FFVI was great about that and, indeed, I don't think a FF game really does this again until FFX whee I distinctly remember the main theme of Zanarkand playing during battle and there being no victory poses. (also the amazing mod called FFVII: New Threat allows you to do exactly this and keep dungeon music playing during random battles)

I'm not sure what else there is to say... i think you all know my favorite characters were Celes and Cyan. I just wish Cyan's dream stuff hadn't been so awful. I am profoundly grateful to the creator of Brave New World for tweeking the gameplay and helping me to finally finish this great game.

Speaking of which, I've decided to try out this romhack called Return of the Dark Sorcerer. I've never played a FF game like this. The closest thing I've considered is Crimson Echoes which I hear was supposed to be some intrepid fan's attempt to bridge the Chrono Trigger-Chrono Cross gap. I never did play that though because the two games are just too different. But I really loved playing FFVI and more of that but different sounds highly interesting to me right now.

Forsaken Lover
07-28-2017, 01:36 AM
So I'm playing that Return of the Dark Sorcerer romhack I mentioned (so far it's pretty fun, even if it is FFVI with the name filed off and starring a purple-haired Terra who had Aerods while in Magitek Armor, Cloud (yes, that one), not-Edgar and not-Sabin. I just beat Raditz) and since i just got done recruiting not-Sabin, I'm reminded of something.

The Figaro brothers were written by Soraya Saga, wife of Tetsuya Takahashi of Xeno-everything fame.She is quite talented and the Xenosaga series suffered from her absence. Anyway, while I enjoyed the Figaro brothers backstory as children, everything relating to Sabin's time as a monk is...pretty laughable.


A year later....

Duncan's Wife: Oh, he's just living out there in a hut. What? Why did you think he was dead?

Good fucking question. I have no idea why Sabin thought that, or what his relation to Vargas was You can't even call it backstory, it's just a blurb. A couple lines of text that come up and are immediately forgotten after you win that boss fight.

It's very weak.

Wolf Kanno
07-28-2017, 04:39 AM
Well congratulations on finishing one of my favorite entries in the series.

To answer a few of your questions:

Sakaguchi has been asked about what happened to Banon and Arvis, and basically told the fans to "use your imaginations" which is probably why there is a popular fan theory that Gogo is Banon even though we all know he's Adlai Stevenson. I'm pretty sure he would give the same answer concerning Seigfried as well.

Yeah, it's kind of bleak for Shadow, but I feel he always felt he lived his life on borrowed time, and never forgave himself for abandoning his colleague. I didn't know about the Thamasa/Shadow thing, but that's a pretty cool Easter Egg. One fun fact some people don't know is that the original ending was going to be a bittersweet one because Terra was meant to disappear along with the rest of magic. The staff decided that was too bleak and changed then ending, but I feel like they probably changed it because Secret of Mana already did that with it's ending. Did you find the three Memento Rings?

The Warring Triad are actually first hinted at by Kefka in the Magitek Factory. When the party ease drops on him, after he dumps Ifrit and Shiva into the pit, he mentions how powerful the Espers are making him and then remarks that he'll "reawaken the statues". While there is no in-game description of why they are not mentioned before then, a fan explanation I can give is simply that there are no records left from that time. Only Thamasa would probably know since they are all descended from the soldiers back then. Another theory is that the Warring Triad bowed out of the War of the Magi somewhat early and the war ended with the humans fighting the espers instead. I mean it was a thousand years ago and resulted in mankind being knocked back into the stone age, I'm sure there are a lot of things that happened back then that got erased from history. Fun fact, the names listed for the Warring Triad on Nomura's sketches (he designed them) are Sophia (Goddess), Sephiroth (Fiend), and Zurvan (Demon). Funny how two of those names become a big deal in later games made by the company. ;)

As for the final battle comparisons, it mostly deals with God Kefka and Safer-Sephiroth and most of it is pretty subtle. Well Sephiroth's signature Heartless Angel move debuted as Kefka's spell, but most people Westerners wouldn't know this because Kefka's move was translated as Fallen One instead due to censorship. Both bosses descend down from the heavens like a god, both have the same number of wings as the game title, both character's show a close up of their face before using their signature move though its obvious with Sephiroth and just looks like a weird animation for Kefka. Both bosses are also fought in cloudy "heaven" life location as opposed to previous villains that went for a space vibe with the exception of Neo-ExDeath. It's mostly silly stuff, but there are certainly a few similar cinematic cues they share, though I'm sure if we analyzed all of the bosses, we would see similar stuff across the board.

Part of the weird stuff concerning Celes' allegiance comes from an aborted story arc for her. She was actually meant to be a spy who ended up changing allegiance to the Returners, but ultimately this plot line got dropped somewhere despite the game keeping some of the story elements from it. Kitase, whom loved Celes and actually gave her a larger role in the plot than she was suppose to have, ended up re-using this story idea in VII for Cait Sith/Reeve.

If you fail to recruit Terra in the WoR, she will appear during the ending to come rescue the party after they beat Kefka, it's not a huge change, but the dialogue is slightly different. The ending is also altered by not recruiting certain people. If you don't recruit Sabin, Edgar's dialogue changes for his ending where he wanders what the meat head is doing. If you don't recruit Locke, Setzer will save Celes but remark that this should have been a certain thief's job. You also get some added dialogue in the store scene, if you take Gau back to see his father, depending on who you recruit.

VI still has my favorite soundtrack in the series, with only VII and V behind it. Here's some great remixes:





As for Edgar and Sabin's story, well I'm sure you noticed all the parallels to Bart and Sigurd, as well as their ancestors being named Rene and Romi. The Duncan thing was kind of dumb, but frankly Sabin's whole story is basically a bad kung-fu plot. Soraya Saga did write a doujinshi detailing the full backstory she had planned for them but couldn't put in the game, but she herself says it's non-canon. It's got some interesting details in it along with callbacks to FFIV surprisingly enough. She also wrote Relm's part. She is a mouthy brat in the original with a bit of a sailor's mouth from what I've heard.