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Fynn
09-19-2017, 09:32 AM
So it's been a while since we had one of these, but let's have another one!

Talk about all things Shin Megami Tensei/Persona/Devil Summoner/whatever else fits under the Megami Tensei Umbrella?

What's your favorite game in the series? Favorite demons/personas? Favorite characters?

Or maybe you've just hear about the series and would like to dive in but don't know where to start? Feel free to ask and you're bound to get some solid recommendations!

Let's spread the MegaTen love!

https://i.imgur.com/VZTYNqN.gif

Karifean
09-19-2017, 10:34 PM
Still slowly making my way through Persona 4, whenever I feel like playing it. Is it just me or are the dungeons in this game somehow a lot less interesting gameplay-wise than the gigantic tower of over 250 same-y floors that was the previous game's dungeon?

Scotty_ffgamer
09-20-2017, 12:14 AM
I've only really played the persona games. I have SMT 3 and 4, but I haven't played much of them despite really liking what I played. I also have a bunch of other spin off games but haven't played them. I still need to beat persona 5 despite being at the end of that game.

Persona 3 is my favorite of that series so far, with 5 and 2 both close behind. Nocturne or digital devil saga look like they could make a play for the top spot if I can ever get around to them.

Fynn
09-20-2017, 09:16 AM
You guys should also play Strange Journey if you have a DS. And enjoy feeling pain.

Speaking of, there's a 3DS remake coming out soon that... I'm not really liking the looks of, tbh? Even though Strange Journey is one of my all time favorite games?

Scotty_ffgamer
09-20-2017, 06:19 PM
I have strange journey, but was thinking of waiting for the 3ds version to play it. Why don't you like the looks of it? I've never really looked into it; I just knew it was a thing that was happening?

Wolf Kanno
09-20-2017, 09:11 PM
I'll get back to this when I have a little more time.

Fynn
09-21-2017, 09:36 AM
I have strange journey, but was thinking of waiting for the 3ds version to play it. Why don't you like the looks of it? I've never really looked into it; I just knew it was a thing that was happening?

As much as I like Doi as an artist, I liked the fact that the art direction of Strange Journey was pretty consistent. Doi adds some new demon designs to SJR that are really cool on their own, but don't really mesh well with the rest of the demons in the game. Also, the character portraits are pretty terrible. Add to that the fact that there is no English voice acting (which is insanely ironic, as this is the one game in the series where it really makes sense for the characters to speak English), and they're adding a new character with a new storyline and a new ending, which just reminds me of the biggest sin Persona 4 Golden has committed.

I'm not saying it can't be good - it might as well be an improvement over the original! - and it's an awesome way for people who haven't had the chance to play this game to finally dive in, but I just don't feel like this is for me.


I mean, God, Irving, what have they done to you!! :crying:

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/_img/chars/irving-shin-megami-tensei-strange-journey-redux-4.54.jpg

Wolf Kanno
09-22-2017, 11:55 PM
I'm not really going to talk about favorites since I'm doing my top list, but I will say that Persona 3 and 4, as well as SMTIV are great intro titles to the franchise. The devil summoner and digital devil saga titles are also quite good.

Forsaken Lover
10-07-2017, 03:05 AM
Starting with P4 is both a good and bad idea. Good because the game is amazing. Bad because it's too amazing. Like, playing Digital Devil Saga after Persona 4? Who are all these horrible people and why am I expected to care about them. Also plot pacing that makes it look like the Investigation Team are the most active heroes ever. Seriously, there is no plot in DDS1 until the last few hours of the game. Also it's slower than continental drift.

And as for playing P3 after 4, forget about it. The lack of Social Links or team cohesion in P3 is really frustrating. Also your best bro is a sexist pig who gets his panties in a wad from taking orders from a girl. I know because I'm playing P3P with a FeMC route. Mitsuru basically had to threaten to cut Junpei's dick off.

Nocturne's good though, just don't expect much plot or characterization from that, either. All the characters except maybe one are just bland mouthpieces for philosophy. Atlus really didn't understand that the person speaking an ideology is just as important as the ideology itself. Hell, they might be more important than the ideology. You're not going to take people seriously unless they earn it. This goes double for fictional characters who are never given any sort of benefit of the doubt and justifiably so. They have to do something to earn your interest and respect or else they have failed as literary characters. So when someone you don't care about or actively dislike tries to win you over to their side, it just falls flat.

Basically, if my Persona buddies had started talking about purging the weak or isolating all of mankind into their own little individual worlds, that would have been infinitely more effective.

Nocturne still good, though. Just could have been better.

Persona 4 and Nocturne are hands down the best Atlus games I have played to date. No real competition at all.

Fynn
10-18-2017, 10:18 AM
So guys, Strange Journey Redux is almost out. Thoughts? Are you getting it?

Wolf Kanno
10-18-2017, 08:22 PM
I have the original, so it's not much of a priority. Maybe once I hear more information about the new content.

Forsaken Lover
10-18-2017, 10:49 PM
I'm more interested in the Switch game that they will be unveiling news about in a week. Here's hoping it's SMTV or some important spinoff with Press Turn.

Forsaken Lover
10-23-2017, 02:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP8fia1zHcY

SMT Switch will be SMTV.

Consider me an official future Switch owner.

Fynn
10-23-2017, 02:31 PM
Btw, I think I've found you on reddit :p


Glad to finally see an actual teaser! Though we still have very little to go on, the first shots remind me a bit too much of Apocalypse. Here's hoping it'll be something fresh and new!

Forsaken Lover
10-23-2017, 02:39 PM
I actually use the same username on almost every forum ever. This one is an exception because I joined so early in my Internet life.

But yeah, Reddit is okay as long as it steers clear of politics or certain video game topics.... Most importantly, it's very active and when I'm in the mood for a topic, it's about the only place that is making topics fast enough to sate me. Been in a huge SMT/Persona mood lately so Reddit helps with that.

The MegaTen board is friendlier to "Nu Persona" than I would have thought which is nice. Still people on ther ewho don't appreciate 4 enough, though. :(

Fynn
10-23-2017, 02:52 PM
I mean, 4 is appreciated to hell and back everywhere else, so it evens out

Wolf Kanno
10-23-2017, 09:17 PM
Holy crap, so Atlus isn't going to wait the obligatory ten years for the next numbered entry in the main franchise?

SMTII (1994)
SMTIII (2003)
SMTIV (2013)

This will actually be the fastest turnaround for a numbered entry since the first two games. I'm also happy the company is keeping the mainline series alive and well as I've heard several fans worries they may ditch it for Persona. I wonder if this means we may see another entry in the Devil Summoner series in the future as well.

Regardless, the Switch has been looking impressive and I now have my first legitimate reason to consider picking it up over a Wii U. I wonder if showing off a male and female character in the trailer may hint to being able to choose the MC's gender? That would be cool.

Fynn
10-23-2017, 10:04 PM
It would definitely be a welcome change. This is done by the Apocalypse team, right? I wonder how they'll handle it. And I don't know if its him or if Doi is just doinghis best to emulate him, but those humandesigns look quite Kaneko-ish

Wolf Kanno
10-23-2017, 10:38 PM
It would definitely be a welcome change. This is done by the Apocalypse team, right? I wonder how they'll handle it. And I don't know if its him or if Doi is just doinghis best to emulate him, but those human designs look quite Kaneko-ish

That's kind of what I was thinking of too. Course with all the flack Doi got for SMTIV and Apocalypse, not to mention the negative reactions to Strange Journey's redesigns, I wouldn't be surprised if the team decided to have Kaneko come back and be the lead artist again. I kind of want to see who is working on this project but watching the teaser trailer a few more times, I'm definitely hyped for this. Man I didn't want to buy a new system though...

Fynn
10-23-2017, 10:40 PM
Well, I can't afford it either way so probblem solved :monster:

Wolf Kanno
10-24-2017, 09:28 PM
Kazuyuki Yamai (SMTIV and SMTIV:A) did a recent interview in Famitus after the announcement. While I haven't found a translation these are some of the highlights people have mentioned:


The game was announced in October because the original Shin Megami Tensei was released 25 years ago this month and the team wanted fans to know the franchise is still going to be supported.
The theme of the game is to make people take a deeper look at "the characteristics of the times" and will address some elements that are going on in the real world. Not that this is new for the franchise. He mentions specifically unemployment, terrorism, uneasiness of life in retirement, nuclear weapons and issues abroad and at home as possible themes the game will tackle.
"Shekinah Glory" of God's Glory is one of the game's keywords, and he wants you to think about it now and when you play the game.
The location seen in the trailer, Shinagawa Station, will play a part in the story.
This is the first time the team is working with the Unreal Engine, and they are pretty pleased with the results of the tech which allows them to test elements of the game faster, allowing for more experimentation. He's happy they were finally introduced to the engine.
Classic elements like demon fusion will still be present but they are also going to introduce some new ones as well.
Since this is the first console entry in a long time (2003's Nocturne being the last one) the goal of the game is to create a hybrid experience that combines the best elements of Nocturne and SMTIV. This is why the Switch was chosen as the platform because it still allows for the big console HD experience but has the mobility function as well. The director noted that he likes the idea that players will watch the game's big moments on a big screen and then use the portable option for simple grinding and dungeon crawling on the go.
The game is still in the development phase and it's too soon to even say it will be "coming soon" don't expect a release date for awhile.

Source: Siliconera, this (http://www.siliconera.com/2017/10/24/shin-megami-tensei-v-made-sympathize-worlds-current-troubles/) and this (http://www.siliconera.com/2017/10/24/shin-megami-tensei-v-made-nintendo-switch/).

Fynn
10-24-2017, 10:04 PM
"please be excited"

Edge7
10-25-2017, 11:31 PM
I've only really played through Persona 4 and 5, (with a bit of P2 on the side) though before P5 came out, I was enjoying a playthrough of Nocturne (can already tell I like it better than Persona). Currently at Kabuchiko Prison; will probably pick it up again once I "cleanse my palate". Also tried SMTIV looking to play "Nocture on the go" and was promptly let down by raising my standards too high. Looking to play Strange Journey Redux when that comes out.

As far as favorite characters go, I really like Rise, despite the undeserved hate she gets. People remember her as "the flirty hyper Selphie/Rikku" of the group and forget that she's actually an awkward introvert who approaches social interaction as a performance. I dunno, I found her intensely relateable.

Forsaken Lover
10-26-2017, 05:20 AM
http://personacentral.com/shin-megami-tensei-favorite-demon-official-poll-results/

Scatach and Mother Harlot in the Top 20, I'm happy. Metatron didn't do too bad for himself, either.

I'm not alone here in adoring Scatach, am I? She's so adorable and is usually pretty strong.


Speaking o fwhich, speculation about SMTV elsewhere had people saying the Megami should be the Law representatives in SMTV, replacing YHWH and his angels.

Wolf Kanno
10-26-2017, 06:23 AM
http://personacentral.com/shin-megami-tensei-favorite-demon-official-poll-results/

Scatach and Mother Harlot in the Top 20, I'm happy. Metatron didn't do too bad for himself, either.

I'm not alone here in adoring Scatach, am I? She's so adorable and is usually pretty strong.


Speaking o fwhich, speculation about SMTV elsewhere had people saying the Megami should be the Law representatives in SMTV, replacing YHWH and his angels.

I am surprised Decarbia and Mothman are so high, they never felt that special to me. I love Scathach and her design is great. Sad to see some fave so low but happy they were at least in the top hundred.

I'm not really sure what to expect from SMTV. I mean SMT1 was all over the place, SMTII is Law focused, SMTIII is Chaos focused. Strange Journey was the environmental one, SMTIV and SMTIV Apocalypse felt more Neutral focus. The teaser trailer for SMTV looks closest to SMT1 at the moment and it's suppose to be about more current events, yet funny enough I kind of feel like the first game again, already addressed a lot of issues we're still worrying about today like terrorism, foreign influences, and corrupt governments. The idea it might deal with Japan's Aging Workforce and Retiree care could be really interesting topic to give a MegaTen spin to.

Skyblade
10-26-2017, 05:20 PM
I played a bit of Nocturne when I borrowed it from a friend. It seemed fantastic, and I remember some great stories I've been told about it as well. I'd love to have it or a game styled like it on a handheld.

Del Murder
10-26-2017, 05:56 PM
I liked P4 on Vita, didn't care much for P3 but that was likely because I played the PSP version that stripped out some of the charm. I'm considering getting SMTIV, since SMTIII is not available on a handheld system (not sure why they didn't give Vita a built in PS2 emulator like PSP had for PS1 games). Is the battle system the same in SMT as in the Persona games? What's the main difference between the gameplay for the two series?

Fynn
10-26-2017, 06:01 PM
So the newer SMT games have something called the Press-Turn system, the Once More system from the newer Persona games being a variation of it. Basically, at the beginning of every turn, you have a number of icons (called press turns) that get used up as you take actions. If you manage to get a critical hit or hit an enemy's weakness, you don't waste an entire press turn, only leave it flashing. The same happens if you pass your turn. A flashing press turn always goes away after used up, even if you pass or hit a weakness. However, if your attack is nulled or reflected by the enemy, you lose an additional press turn. And it works identically for enemies. The system is present in both SMT III and IV, but NOT Strange Journey which is more traditional and only really has the Demon Co-Op as a unique feature. (But SJ is still amazing though so you should try it out, there's a 3DS version coming out soon, though the original DS version was pretty perfect in its original form anyway)

Wolf Kanno
10-26-2017, 06:26 PM
Some other differences between SMTIV and the other entries is that there is no defense stat, so you need to be more on top of your gear and party elemental strengths and weaknesses to mitigate damage cause even early level demons can wipe out a high level party if you are unlucky. On the brightside this applies to enemies as well so battles are pretty fast in this game and never quite drag like other entries.

There is also a mechanic called Smirk which is granted sometimes when you either exploit an enemy weakness or dodge an attack. Smirk only last one round but it will greatly boost your next skill used in battle and grants you 100% evasion making you immune to getting attacked. Though to warn you, enemies can use this feature as well so be careful.

When you fuse two demons together you are now able to choose which skills the new demon will inherent from it's parents. This is as broken as it sounds which is why SMTIV:Apocalypse and P5 modified it to be less game breaking.

Your main character can learn skills and magic, something you can do in Nocturne as well but the rules are different. When a demon completes all the skills it can naturally learn it has the ability to do Demon Whisper which allows the MC to learn one skill from the demon. If the demon teaches you a skill you already know, the skill gets a power boost up to about seven times if memory serves me correct, effectively making the MC one of the most powerful fighters on your team.

While your MC follows rules from previous games where his elemental strengths and weaknesses are determined by his equipment, new to the series is that the armor actually changes his appearance which can be fun to play around with.

Also if you die, you get sent to meet Charon who will bargain with you and let you go back and redo the fight for a price. You can either use in-game money or those Mii Coins used for the Mii minigames to bribe him.

Overall, SMTIV is designed to be a lot more user friendly than the rest of the SMT mainline games with the exception of the game's map being a bit complicated and easy to get lost in. For the most part, the game starts off pretty challenging but eases up once you get to Tokyo, at which point you should have a good grasp of the games mechanics.

Del Murder
10-26-2017, 09:50 PM
Sounds pretty fun. I'll add it to the list.

Wolf Kanno
10-28-2017, 05:25 AM
Been watching a few videos about SMT after my write up of Nocturne on my Top 100 Thread and felt this could be useful for people curious about the franchise and want to get into it. Now it should be noted that everyone has different opinions of these type of things and for my list, I'm only sticking to the game's I've either beaten or have at least gotten far enough o have a pretty good idea on how it works.

So without further ado...
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Great Starters: Games I usually recommend people to start with due to the games being more straightforward and a more newb friendly learning curve. Games have enough elements of typical RPGs to not feel too jarring transitioning to.
**************************************************************************************************** ****
Persona 3
Pros: Good story and cast, and the core game is designed to ease you into everything and the game offers moderately good challenge and multiple difficulty modes.
Cons: Feels a bit to basic compared to later installments, The Answer is a bit of a mixed bag, and P3P has a boring UI.

Persona 4
Pros: Fun cast of characters and better emphasis on the social link stuff. Largely an improvement of P3's ideas.
Cons: Very lightweight experience that can make other entries in the series feel a bit jarring, some questionable gameplay changes from P3 as well.

Shin Megami Tensei IV
Pros: Streamlined gameplay and an incredibly user-friendly fusion system. Game is also filled with great side content and it's more story focus than past entries.
Cons: Steep learning curve in the beginning combined with a rather non-intuitive world map can lead to some frustration. Story and characters feel subdued compared to Persona.

Digital Devil Saga
Pros: Feels the most like a normal RPG with no Day/Calendar system or heavy exploration to find the plot like the rest of the franchise. Gameplay is a slightly better version of Nocturne's and the game has a cool story and customization.
Cons: Dungeons are a bit too long at times and heave help you if you go for the extra content. The game is also split into two parts so you'll need to play both to understand anything.

Devil Survivor
Pros: It successfully combines Press Turn mechanics with Tactical Grid based RPGs. Has a really cool premise and some cool boss battles with plenty of customization.
Cons: The plot is kind of let down by some awkward pacing and grating characters, the lack of a compendium hampers long term planning which is something this game needs. Tries too hard to marry SMT themes with Persona character focus.

**************************************************************************************************** ***
Standard: You can start with these games but they usually involve either more advanced stuff or unique gameplay that really on't prepare you for other entries in the franchise. The games can be either a bit more challenging than the starter entries and these entries are also prone to older game tastes that can be off putting from modern gaming tastes.
**************************************************************************************************** ***

Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
Pros: Great battle system and very unique setting and story with pretty good characters. Gameplay is complex but rewarding.
Cons: May need a guide to understand fusion and to clear a few parts of the game. Plot is sparse compared to more typical RPGs and the learning curve is a bit harder than the beginner entries.

Persona 2 Duology
Pros: Great cast and a really interesting story with a unique battle system and gameplay features like the rumor system. Tons of replay value.
Cons: Dungeon design is on the tedious side and all that unique gameplay is not very apparent without a guide. Like DDS, there are two entries to play to get the whole story. Gameplay is also unique to them and won't help you with the rest of the franchise.

Persona 5
Pros: Good cast and more focused story than previous installments. Lots of great gameplay improvements over predecessors. Best dungeon design in the Persona series.
Cons: Combat is a bit more advanced than it's predecessors with several new game changing features and the return of demon negotiations which can be off putting for new players or ones used to older entries. Social Sim aspect isn't played up as much as it's predecessors.

**************************************************************************************************** ********
Unique: These are fun entries but have design features that can be very off putting for people not prepared for it.
**************************************************************************************************** ********

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
Pros: Nifty dungeon crawler with complex dungeons and gameplay to keep you entertained. Plot is pretty damn cool and has a fun cast of characters to play with. Brings back a lot of old school game design elements from the past.
Cons: Dropped the superior Press Turn system for something a bit more standard.. Dungeon can be frustrating and the game is pure dungeon crawler so only play if you're a fan.

Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army
Pros: Unique setting and gameplay not seen in the genre very often with the gameplay focused on detective work. Interesting story told in episodic case files that eventually tell one overarching plot. Gotou.
Cons: Action-RPG combat leaves much to be desired and can grow tedious with the game's encounter rate. It is inadvisable to drop this game midway through a case and then try to come back to it.

**************************************************************************************************** ********
Bad: This is a bit of misnomer, these games are still perfectly fine but either have archaic design, old school, values or funky design choices make these games difficult to get into unless you're already a fan.
**************************************************************************************************** ********

Persona 1
Pros: Game that started the franchise which boasts two unique scenarios with plenty of replay value and multiple endings.
Cons: Plot is laughably bad, battle system is more of a chore than fun, persona options are unbalanced, and game is way too grindy.

Shin Megami Tensei
Pros: Game that started it all, and the most referenced entry in the series. Novel gameplay design for it's time and music is still pretty strong. Alignment mechanic is most rewarding. Still surprisingly fun despite it's age.
Cons: Fugly graphics. Far more challenging than later installments, demon fusion isn't as rewarding, and good luck trying to make your way though the game's plot without a guide since the encounter rate is almost crippling high to make wandering around directionless as fun as having teeth pulled.

Fynn
10-28-2017, 06:52 AM
A small appendix to Wolf's list: Devil Survivor's 3DS rerelease did add in a Compendium.

Wolf Kanno
10-29-2017, 06:35 PM
Finally found a translated version of the director interview.

https://www.rpgsite.net/news/6264-read-what-kazuyuki-yamai-is-aiming-to-create-in-shin-megami-tensei-v-full-famitsu-translation