FFXV VS Sims 4

[maybee]

Voting for Sims 4. At least with DLC you might get some cute heart shaped sofas or something.

[Formalhaut]

I mean, Sims 3 > Sims 4 but Sims 4 still wins out over FFXV in my opinion. Sims 4 isn't bad so much as Sims 3 exists.

[WarZidane]

the sims has 0 appeal to me, so :monster:

[Darkhero]

I haven't played either of those, but even with my reservations about FFXV I'm still more inclined toward it.

[Wolf Kanno]

I mean, XV isn't even the worst money grab by SE (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_All_the_Bravest).

[Fynn]

As a Sims fan, I am voting for FFXV. There is nothing SE can do that can outmatch how much EA has not only damaged the reputation of the Sims at this point with an egregious handling of this IP (pretty much everything about TS4 is a mistake), not to mention SE still has a long way to go until they’re EA level cartoony monsters.

[Vermachtnis]

Sims 4 has a DLC for a DLC.

[maybee]

Sims 4 has a DLC for a DLC.

That was disgusting. They didn't even try.

[Mr. Carnelian]

I mean, Sims 3 > Sims 4 but Sims 4 still wins out over FFXV in my opinion. Sims 4 isn't bad so much as Sims 3 exists.

Neither of us has even played FFXV though, to be fair. There's a chance one or both of us might really enjoy it when we buy the Actually Final For Realsies, No Takebacks This Time Honest Edition in a few years' time.

But yeah, Sims 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sims 4.

[Loony BoB]

It's only a money grab from you if you pay for it ;) It's not a money grab from me, that's for sure. FFXV was an excellent game from the start to finish when I played it and finished before any DLC existed. No problems here. DLC may exist but that doesn't mean I have to buy it, nor does it mean I have to change my judgment of the game I played at launch.

[Psychotic]

It's only a money grab from you if you pay for it ;) It's not a money grab from me, that's for sure. FFXV was an excellent game from the start to finish when I played it and finished before any DLC existed. No problems here. DLC may exist but that doesn't mean I have to buy it, nor does it mean I have to change my judgment of the game I played at launch.That's all very well and good but you're missing a fundamental point. You're talking about what you didn't pay for, but you don't realise what you did pay for isn't as good or complete as it could've been. Despite having paid full price for the game, you're still having content gated off from you.

You said that XV DLC didn't exist when you bought the game but that's a bad choice of phrase, as it very much did exist. I was going to say what you mean is "it did exist, it just wasn't for sale" but even that's wrong. The XV DLC was planned from the start, because they announced a Season Pass before the game had even launched (https://www.cinemablend.com/games/1541609/final-fantasy-xv-has-a-season-pass-you-can-buy-but-theres-a-catch). Still don't see a problem? They deliberately removed and deferred sections of the game that they could've completed and included in the launch title so they could make you pay more for it.

Oh, and let's not forget they also did the pre-order bonus and retailer exclusive nonsense too. http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/11/17/a-complete-guide-to-final-fantasy-15s-pre-order-bonuses Want to wait a day or two to see how the review scores are? Don't want to buy from Amazon? smurf you. I know what the response will be: Oh it's just a sword and car decal, who cares? Sure, but explain to me how this benefits you or I as fans and customers in any meaningful way. It doesn't. What it does is reduces and diminishes the game - even in a small way - for the deadly sin of daring to not utilise Square's preferred commercial partner.

Or let me put it another way. If FFVII had removed the Wutai Pagoda, chocobo racing and Cloud/Zack/Vincent flashbacks and made them DLC, and if they'd made Cloud's Nail Bat an Amazon pre-order bonus (did Amazon exist in 97? :p I bought my FFVII from Woolworths!) would the game be utterly ruined? No. Would it be worse? Yes.

[Fynn]

Still not even half as scummy as EA’s treatment of TS4

[WarZidane]

It's only a money grab from you if you pay for it ;) It's not a money grab from me, that's for sure. FFXV was an excellent game from the start to finish when I played it and finished before any DLC existed. No problems here. DLC may exist but that doesn't mean I have to buy it, nor does it mean I have to change my judgment of the game I played at launch.
Still don't see a problem? They deliberately removed and deferred sections of the game that they could've completed and included in the launch title so they could make you pay more for it.

[citation needed]

[Wolf Kanno]

It's only a money grab from you if you pay for it ;) It's not a money grab from me, that's for sure. FFXV was an excellent game from the start to finish when I played it and finished before any DLC existed. No problems here. DLC may exist but that doesn't mean I have to buy it, nor does it mean I have to change my judgment of the game I played at launch.
Still don't see a problem? They deliberately removed and deferred sections of the game that they could've completed and included in the launch title so they could make you pay more for it.

[citation needed]

I feel it was pretty obvious when you reach the part where Gladio leaves the party and then comes back with scars and no explanation. They were a bit better about Prompto and Ignis' sections, but Gladio's departure screamed "play the DLC". We also knew three months before the game's release (http://www.siliconera.com/2016/08/11/final-fantasy-xv-dlc-makes-gladiolus-ignis-prompto-playable/) that all of Noctis' party were getting their own DLC Episodes. Though the nature of said Episodes were never gone into with any detail.

Though I think the one part we're all kind of forgetting here is that the new gameplay mechanics incorporated into said DLC were for the better and I'm not sure they would have come out as well had the game stuck to the title's core battle system. I will also commend them cause unlike say Capcom's shitty way of doing DLC, at least it seems obvious that Squenix developed the DLC after the core game was finished, and didn't simply hide it in the code.

RPGs are very tricky to do DLC for. I mean I love the DLC for Dark Souls, but I would also say it only works because Dark Souls is not really a story driven title, so having major story revelations from the DLC doesn't feel as obnoxious as it would in a more typical Final Fantasy. I think the patches needed to fix Chapter 13 and a few other problems with the game are more concerning. As I've said before, I don't want to encourage Squenix to become like Ubisoft and release half finished products they can fix with a patch later.

[Loony BoB]

Or let me put it another way. If FFVII had removed the Wutai Pagoda, chocobo racing and Cloud/Zack/Vincent flashbacks and made them DLC, and if they'd made Cloud's Nail Bat an Amazon pre-order bonus (did Amazon exist in 97? :p I bought my FFVII from Woolworths!) would the game be utterly ruined? No. Would it be worse? Yes.
I get that, but I don't think Square Enix would take the initiative to make these extra things if it weren't for the fact they knew they would be getting paid for it. The money, time and development it takes to do each individual thing these days is growing at a high rate. That's why we get these huge development schedules - even for indie games with no frills - and these things (skins and weapons aside, more talking about 'episodes') are no longer as viable as they once were if you want to include everything else.

They did include the fishing, they did include the cooking, they did include the random endgame dungeon in FFXV. Why would they have to do these episodes?

It's a weird thing. We'll never know if these things would or wouldn't be made if DLC wasn't a thing. It's possible they only do it because of the funding that will provide for it to be viable, or it's possible that it would have been done anyway like you say. It's literally an impossible thing to know for sure unless you're in the company at a high level.

But Sims 4? Hmm. The base game is rather raw... I'm not sure they didn't get the funding for every DLC in the base game despite that. For me, Pokemon is worse. They make you buy the game twice if you want to get everything on your own, despite the differences being so easy for them to integrate into a single game.

Also, for what it's worth, the DLC was free for me since I pre-ordered. Say what you like about the whole pre-ordering thing, but I bought the game at 100% price and got 100% of the game.

Still haven't played the DLC though. xD #someday?

[Psychotic]

[citation needed]One sec, let me just post the audio file of the bug I hid in Square's offices :p As I said in my post, the season pass specifically advertising these episodes was announced before the game was released. The story was obviously shaped to fit the DLCs in too as Wolf Kanno pointed out. If you haven't played it, there are events in the story where they arbitrarily split the party up with little reason, and they all return with a "Oh I'll tell you about it later" nod and a wink. If you want to believe in the wholesome honest nature of Square-Enix then I don't have the heart to try to convince you otherwise, but most people who played the game have probably reached the same conclusion that I did.


Also, for what it's worth, the DLC was free for me since I pre-ordered. Say what you like about the whole pre-ordering thing, but I bought the game at 100% price and got 100% of the game.

Still haven't played the DLC though. xD #someday?Are you sure you did? Unless you got the Premium Edition (and you would have to have paid more for it) the Episode DLC is not part of a pre-order.

Anyway, with that said, I don't want to be too harsh. The Assassin's Festival and a couple of other bits were free which is great. I do agree with Wolf Kanno though that they definitely refined the gameplay mechanics of this content in the interim though and probably added some polish. I wasn't really blown away by the unique gameplay in any of them though and was more interested in the episodes for the story content.

I also think these new episodes are more palatable. Maybe I'm being naive but I think they're all new ideas and concepts that they've had after launch, rather than chopping and changing the main story to shoehorn them in.

[Fynn]

For the last time, BoB, the point of two versions of Pokémon games has always been socialization! If you’re buying both games to get all the pokes you are doing it wrong! And yes, this is even more a thing today because WiFi Connection is a thing and you can trade with people from all around the world and have all the Pokémon on one cartridge, paying for only one game! There is nothing money grubby about the Pokémon model. Sure, there is a lot to complain about (such as limited time event Pokémon that would honestly feel better if they actually did paid DLC instead - which they never did) - but comparing Pokémon to what EA is doing is downright offensive because - again - for the last four generations it has been completely possible to 100% your Pokédex with only one game card and no one else around who plays Pokemon. It’s the exact opposite of the thing this thread is about!

[WarZidane]

There's a big difference between deliberately removing content from your game to later sell separately, and placing a hook for DLC you have planned.

If it's unclear, the former implies the content was already done and then they removed it. :3:

And no, having the DLC planned out in advance doesn't count. That's how DLC works, they have it planned in advance so the teams can get started on it when the game goes gold so that the entire team doesn't have to twiddle their thumbs until the next big project.

[Wolf Kanno]

There's a big difference between deliberately removing content from your game to later sell separately, and placing a hook for DLC you have planned.

If it's unclear, the former implies the content was already done and then they removed it. :3:

And no, having the DLC planned out in advance doesn't count. That's how DLC works, they have it planned in advance so the teams can get started on it when the game goes gold so that the entire team doesn't have to twiddle their thumbs until the next big project.

While I believe the content was planned ahead for the purpose of DLC and was likely always intended that way, I also feel that in the case of Prompto and Ignis' chapters, the content of their DLC was actually relevant towards the overall nature of the story. I feel many fans would have felt a lot less disappointed with how the story was handled in Chapters 9 and 13 had several of the elements from both of the respective character DLCs remain. I mean there are some serious plot elements concerning Ravus, Verstail, and major story elements about the rest of the villains are all in the DLC. A major gripe with XV was the lackluster villains and that's largely cause all of their stories were saved for extra stuff like the DLC and the movie.

The DLC for a series like Dark Souls simply enriches a great game to begin with. The DLC for XV is filling in gaps that many players noticed while playing the game. The difference here is that without the DLC, Dark Souls is still a great game, whereas XV feels unfinished. This is not saying the DLC is bad, but I would agree with many people that the handling of XV's DLC and the content it contains could have been better. Even though it was likely always planned, due to the nature of the DLC in relation to the greater narrative, it all feels like content that should have been in the main game regardless, and whether it was pre-planned and implemented later doesn't really matter to the fans, and in the court of public opinion, even looking guilty can make you guilty despite your innocence.

[Psychotic]

Do I think the content was finished and then removed? Of course not. The game itself wasn't done when they released it! (https://www.ricedigital.co.uk/15-funny-final-fantasy-xv-glitches-bugs/) Funny bugs aside, there were some more serious game breaking issues too that I certainly experienced and I know I wasn't alone in that. Given its troubled development and multiple delays and push back dates, given that they were happy to release an unfinished game but call it finished, yes, it's not unreasonable to suspect that at some point they said smurf it, let's just ship what we got, we'll come back to this stuff and sell it as DLC and a complete edition of the game later.

Even if you want to exclude the DLC under the theory that it was planned from the start, I'd invite you to meet the Royal Edition (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/171283-Royal-Edition!-And-trailer). I don't know if you've played XV yet, but this is stuff that was clearly meant for the main game (the Altissia boat exploration is the best example) and was cut. Instead of releasing the completed update for free to people who paid full price they're charging more money for it.

And hey, I get it. They're a business and not a charity, they gotta pay the bills somehow. But I've got bills to pay too, and having supported this game at launch I now regret doing so knowing what I know. I thought I was getting a complete game, I do not feel that I got that. Final Fantasy was one of the few game series where I'd pre-order and buy the season pass for but in future I'm going to wait and see. If they want to alienate loyal customers to try to double dip and make those sweet $$$ gains, well, good luck to 'em I guess.

[Skyblade]

Still not even half as scummy as EA’s treatment of TS4

So we forgive bad business strategies because another company has been even worse? All that does is normalize things.

Look at Battlefield 2. All of a sudden loot boxes are "okay", as long as they're purely cosmetic. Sure, pay to win isn't accepted (for now), but we've made the predatory and consumer unfriendly practice standard accepted procedure in the industry now. Two steps against the customer, one back. And it keeps happening.

[Fynn]

Still not even half as scummy as EA’s treatment of TS4

So we forgive bad business strategies because another company has been even worse? All that does is normalize things.

Look at Battlefield 2. All of a sudden loot boxes are "okay", as long as they're purely cosmetic. Sure, pay to win isn't accepted (for now), but we've made the predatory and consumer unfriendly practice standard accepted procedure in the industry now. Two steps against the customer, one back. And it keeps happening.

This thread is about comparing FFXV with TS4 in that regard. I am making my stance on the original question clear, that is all. You’re just putting words in my mouth at this point.

[Loony BoB]

Are you sure you did? Unless you got the Premium Edition (and you would have to have paid more for it) the Episode DLC is not part of a pre-order.
Fair point, perhaps I did this, it falls in line with my normal buying strategy for main FF games :shobon:

[Example]

I don't give a shit about Sims, and fuck EA. So FFXV I guess.

[Jessweeee♪]

I mean, yeah, some sort of scummy practices with the FFXV DLC but it really doesn't compare to the fuckery that is the Sims 4. There is DLC for the DLC.

[maybee]

You can get Noct's outfit in Sims 4 now, and Sims 4 llama superhero costumes DLC in FFXV....



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