What makes a good Heroine?

[Wolf Kanno]

We've been seeing a rise in female leads in gaming lately, but what are your thoughts on female leads? Who are some of the best ones and which ones do you feel give women a bad name?

[maybee]

Strong physically AND mentally. If she can just wield two guns and shoot a zombie but that's it, then she's not really all that great IMO.

[Psychotic]

Elizabeth in BioShock Infinite is probably my favourite. She starts out as the damsel in distress, a trope that you'd think should be avoided at all costs when making a good heroine, but becomes so much more after going a real transformative journey. I think it also helps that she has so much more life and spark and depth to her than the protagonist, a standard generic brown haired stubbled man.

Also from a gameplay perspective she is the perfect escort mission - she does not need your help whatsoever and her AI is brilliantly intuitive in knowing when you're in a critical moment and desperately need more ammo she'll throw it right in your face. Her own powers are majestic too.

[Mr. Carnelian]

They've got to have at least a little bit of character and/or depth to be a great heroine, I'd say. Not saying they have to be a multi-layered onion of emotion and backstory, but like Maybee says, if they're just a gun/sword/whatever wielding badass and that's it, I may well lose interest in them.

I'll come back in a bit when I've thought of some good examples.

[Fynn]

Needs to be a person first. Plain and simple. Dunno if she counts since she’s a silent protagonist in the game she actually does lead, but Maya Amano is still one of my favorite gaming heroines. She is central to the plot, her personality is so lovable and positive, and yet she has flaws and vulnerabilities that really have nothing to do with being a woman or being victimized. Same goes for Aqua from Kingdom Hearts - she the smartest person in the group, spending most of her story fixing what the others messed up, but there’s no sexist message behind it.

Basically, I think I like female heroes for the same reasons I like male heroes and, in general, I think that if you can switch the gender and it still works, you’re doing something good with your character. Heck, despite how polarizing she is, I think even Lightning is a good heroine if only because I have no problem imagining her as a man as it would really not impact the story at all. And I don’t mean heroines shouldn’t be feminine - all of my three examples are very overtly feminine without going too stereotypical or oversexualizing them.

[Jinx]

She needs to be able to be vulnerable and fall in love. For some reason writers like to go hard left with "strong" female leads and not give her a love interest. Which is actually incredibly insulting. I know so many amazing women who are married and moms, or just looking for love. It doesn't take away their strength. Being open is one of the strongest things you can do.

[Fynn]

I think the reason is that for so many years being in love and being the love interest was pretty much all a woman could do in video games - and that’s if she’s not a simple damsel or McGuffin. This trend is probably just a reaction to that - a pull in the other direction that will subside later before things even out more

[maybee]

She needs to be able to be vulnerable and fall in love. For some reason writers like to go hard left with "strong" female leads and not give her a love interest. Which is actually incredibly insulting. I know so many amazing women who are married and moms, or just looking for love. It doesn't take away their strength. Being open is one of the strongest things you can do.

I tried to rep this post twice.


I think the reason is that for so many years being in love and being the love interest was pretty much all a woman could do in video games - and that’s if she’s not a simple damsel or McGuffin. This trend is probably just a reaction to that - a pull in the other direction that will subside later before things even out more

Ehhhhhh but look at Princess Peach. Even to this day, we don't know how strong towards her feelings are towards Mario. It's more like an "award" for the male character-hero and the player for completing the game. You defeat the villain, you save the girl, you get her kiss or hug or "even better" a relationship with her. Credits roll. Nerd from 1987 grabs his skateboard and goes home feeling accomplished.

[Bubba]

She needs to be able to be vulnerable and fall in love. For some reason writers like to go hard left with "strong" female leads and not give her a love interest. Which is actually incredibly insulting. I know so many amazing women who are married and moms, or just looking for love. It doesn't take away their strength. Being open is one of the strongest things you can do.

I tried to rep this post twice.

I’ve got your back.

Absolutely. Vulnerability is a trait often overlooked in a strong, female lead. It can be one of their biggest strengths given the situation. When I think of brilliantly realised female characters I think of Ellen Ripley in Alien or Ellie from The Last of Us. Sometimes the emotion of a situation can lead to the voice breaking or even tears. But dammit this is a strength and one that writers should attribute to male leads too.

I agree with Jinx though that writers shouldn’t be afraid of the love interest. I adored Aloy in Horizon Zero Dawn but I think a love interest would have added another dimension. I get that the writers wanted her to be non-sexualised (and it worked) but that doesn’t mean you should avoid romance/connections altogether.

Edit: I really liked how Jyn and Cassian’s relationship was done in Rogue One as a good example.

[Leigh]

I've been out of the video game loop for a while. Are they still writing 'strong' female characters basically like tesosterone filled dudes sans penis?

[Vyk]

Aloy had vulnerability and practical armor. Cant speak on the new Lara Croft. 2B was surprisingly good, and stands out despite her sexualized outfit. I feel like Transistor, Gravity Rush, and of course good ol' Ellie were done pretty well. Most of the bad female leads are stylized Hyperdimension or Senran Kagura schlock from my perspective. There's not a lot of female leads still, but they're not all bad. Last testosterone one I'm aware of was Bullet - something. Female Duke Nukem which I'm surprised they thought would even sell in today's environment

[Christmas]

Boobies and single.

[Quindiana Jones]

Big throbbing knobs.

[Vyk]

Hadn't realized I killed the thread with that comment 4 years ago. Go me. And how the hell did I make a comment about quality female leads and not mention Jade. One of my all-time favorite video game females from Beyond Good and Evil

[Vincent, Thunder God]

I don't know. I guess primarily terra in ffvi was more independent and written in a more unique way. It's hard to say in this medium what would be a good heroine because it's too limited as it currently stands.

[Loony BoB]

Almost everything in this thread combined. And the same goes for a male lead, really.

- Can be strong
- Can be vulnerable
- Has strengths that they use appropriately
- Has weaknesses that they overcome
- Has intelligence
- Has emotion (not just one of them, either)
- Has a sense of humour
- Has limitations
- Has empathy (personal preference for me on this one)
- Has a past
- Has aspirations

Honestly I don't really care about appearance at all when it comes to writing a good character, but ideally it should be at least somewhat sensible for what they are doing - in other words, if they spend all their time climbing cliff faces, they shouldn't be unhealthily fat, and if they are lifting huge weight, they shouldn't be unhealthily thin. Fantasy/scifi stuff can help get around that, too, though.

[Christmas]

Honestly I don't really care about appearance at all .

Wanna play Brahne from FFIX as the heroine? :bigsmile:

[Loony BoB]

Why not? Obelix (of the Asterix series) is great.

[Dr. Acula]

I agree with what's been said in the thread so far. Also, developers shouldn't be afraid of making their female protags "unlikeable". Give 'em some flaws.

I think Cassandra from Dragon Age: Inquisition, while not the heroine of the game, is a great example. She's strong, but shows her vulnerable side and love of cheesy romance. She's also stubborn and bullheaded and not always pleasant, and that's why I love her.

[Mr Gashtacular]

visible camel toe at all times

[KentaRawr!]

There are guides to this online, but I think they're illegal. :ohdear: