Final Fantasy and the Toxic Fanbase.

[Wolf Kanno]

So I've been recently exposed to the rather toxic fanbase that is the KH fandom, which kind of just threw me for a loop, because I had a very different idea of what KH fans were like but that's what making assumptions does for you. While I was discussing it with a few people, it got me thinking about series and the recent trends of toxicity that spring up with them. Granted, toxicity among a fanbase is as old as fandoms in general, but I do get amazed how quickly it seems to take over nowadays.

So this kind of got me thinking about our own fandom, and perhaps the issues really hurting the franchise is various fanbases that crop up across this rather broad series. Do you still think the FF Fandom is toxic? To the point of being a problem? What do you feel we can do as a community to alleviate it if so? What do you like and dislike the most about other FF fans?

[Fynn]

The latest entry can never be treated fairly. FFXV was definitely mishandled, but judging by the reaction of people outside the bubble we live in, it’s still a damn solid game - but just looking within the overall FF fandom, you’d think some of these people personally blame the game for the death of their mothers. And is honestly been happening since I can remember, and I full-on joined the community just before FFXII came out, so I know it’s been exactly like this at least from the moment that came out. It has since been vindicated by history but let me tell you, it was never easy being a fan of the latest FF.

[Karifean]

I feel like Final Fantasy really doesn't have much of a fanbase anymore. Over the many years the majority of the old 'toxic' fanbase just lost interest and the people who are fans of FF "nowadays" are completely different and spread all over the place. It's kind of a shame but while the name still carries a lot of weight there's not really much of a community around it, just a lot of splintered parts that somehow survived, like EoFF or other boards like GameFAQs.

I'd say the fanbase was incredibly more lively and toxic back when XII and XIII came out and elitism was running rampant, but all that feels so distant by now. Back then you could see people getting hated on and bashed for dissenting opinions. Now? Eh, most of the really toxic people were probably the first to jump ship when FF stopped entirely being the 'rad and super in' thing and are now having a blast proving their superiority by bashing what the series has become instead. I guess you could make the argument that that *is* part of the wider "toxic fanbase" though, in which case, yeah, I'd say FF definitely has a damn toxic fanbase.

[Lord Golbez]

Reading the comments in this thread, apparently disliking a game is considered "toxic." If that's the attitude, I would submit the problem is less with the fandom and more with those who define opinions they don't like as "toxic." I get how trying to rain on the parade of people who do like a game could be considered "toxic," but just applying it to the fandom typically disliking the most recent entries? I would argue that for many of the entries, that response is warranted. Now if it's the same people complaining about every entry I have to wonder if they should be considered the "fandom" at all, but it's probably different people having the same sort of response to different entries in the series.

[Fynn]

It’s really not about disliking a game. It’s far deeper than that.

[maybee]

A couple of years ago I got called many things like "stupid ", "slow" and a "retard " for not liking FFXII. So yeah, it is pretty toxic.

[Wolf Kanno]

Reading the comments in this thread, apparently disliking a game is considered "toxic." If that's the attitude, I would submit the problem is less with the fandom and more with those who define opinions they don't like as "toxic." I get how trying to rain on the parade of people who do like a game could be considered "toxic," but just applying it to the fandom typically disliking the most recent entries? I would argue that for many of the entries, that response is warranted. Now if it's the same people complaining about every entry I have to wonder if they should be considered the "fandom" at all, but it's probably different people having the same sort of response to different entries in the series.

It's really more of hating a game to the point where you both drive away the fans of said games and thus drive fans away from the community at large, or basically leave such a warped view of the series that even if someone was interested, the very fact they don't fall in line with this warped view can prevent people from wanting to check it out. It was far more rampant among the FF fanbase back in the PSX era with the old school 16-bit fans and all the new 3D FF fans arguing over which electronic entertainment was the best, and I feel it finally started to die down around the time of XII and XIII's releases.

Granted, mods kept it fairly cool here so I don't really feel like this forum got hit as bad as some others, but even jumping into other fanbases, you can see some really fucked up shit people did. I was originally a member of a Xenogears/Xenosaga forum, and the head of the forum would ban you if you so much as uttered anything remotely positive about Xenosaga Episode 2 in the forums and the mods would regularly humiliate members who didn't condone to their views of the games. Another example is the Rick and Morty fanbase that has several members that somehow feel like the show makes them superior because it somehow combines a few touching deep moments with songs about literal shit. And they brow beat other fans of other cartoon shows for not being smart enough to appreciate it. I don't even think I need to bring up Star Trek and Star Wars fans.

*Note this is not directed at anyone in particular*

There 's a difference between me saying to someone,

"I disagree that Game Y is a bad game and here is why"

vs.

"Oh my god, I can't believe you're so stupid that you can't see how obvious that Game Y is the greatest fucking game of all time. Maybe it's just too deep for you because you love all those baby games with that animu shit. So you should just shut the fuck up, cause obviously nothing of interest if going to come from your opinion, and the adults in the thread will continue to have a real conversation."

That's the kind of mentality I'm thinking when I say toxic. When parts of the fanbase try to shape or coerce the entire thinking and makeup of the fanbase, and it gets so abrasive that it not only has fans jumping ship or sometime just hiding in smaller and more insular social groups that ironically often breed more of these types of people, or gives the fandom such a bad rep that new fans don't really want to engage with the fanbase in general. I mean I love SMT and Persona, but I've lurked in enough of their communities to know I want nothing to do with the fanbase, cause holy hell the amount of elitism or general stupidity that runs in those places are maddening, but at the same time, it's not like every fan community is like the negative view they've given themselves.

[Fynn]

smt fanbase still has fire memes though

[Lord Golbez]

Well, when you put it that way, I'm thinking of a toxic fanbase as something like the Rick and Morty fanbase. And, no, I generally don't think the FF fanbase is that bad.

[maybee]

Well, when you put it that way, I'm thinking of a toxic fanbase as something like the Rick and Morty fanbase.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily fromNarodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick and Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existencial catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools... how I pity them. �� And yes by the way, I DO have a Rick and Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

[Lord Golbez]

"Preferably lower." ROFL!

[Rez09]

Eh, generally speaking I don't find the FF fanbase that bad, though I still bump heads with some very elitist fans who insist the only reason I don't think/know/recognize FFIX is the best in the series is because I have no appreciation for / understanding of the classic series. Fortunately, those people generally have very clear personality tells, so I see it as more of a personal failing rather than a flaw in the fanbase as a whole, especially considering I've been lurking around here for quite a while and find most of you peeps pretty agreeable. :p

[Loony BoB]

I completely agree with the idea that people "aren't allowed" to enjoy the latest game. I also agree that people need to realise that just because they don't like a game doesn't mean it's "objectively" a bad game.

People just need to realise that Final Fantasy is a series in which every game will be different, and should stop treating it like other series where every game is the same. Just because you don't prefer the newer games doesn't mean that the series is somehow dead or dying. Let people enjoy things. If you want the same game over and over I'm sure there are other series out there to appease you.

I gotta say that WK and Fynn are definitely right up there with the most anti-new-FF people in recent years. ;) I can understand why they don't like how FF has been because I don't like every game in the series and I'm sure they see the newer games like I see the battle system of FFII, for example. But I have an innate habit of focusing on things I like and also have a seemingly lucky ability to enjoy things others don't, maybe lower standards or something. xD

[Fynn]

Hey, I just don’t like XIII, and that’s not because it’s new. FFXV looks like something I’d really like, I just don’t have the funds to get it now. So please don’t misconstrue my views :mad2:

[Loony BoB]

Crap, sorry, I confused your opinions on FFXV with Fox's xD

[Wolf Kanno]

I gotta say that WK and Fynn are definitely right up there with the most anti-new-FF people in recent years. ;) I can understand why they don't like how FF has been because I don't like every game in the series and I'm sure they see the newer games like I see the battle system of FFII, for example. But I have an innate habit of focusing on things I like and also have a seemingly lucky ability to enjoy things others don't, maybe lower standards or something. xD

To be fair, I actually liked FFXV. Perhaps it didn't crack my all time favorite, and it did feature some game design choices I don't particularly care for, but I did actually enjoy it. My beef is really more with XIII. :p

[Mr Gashtacular]

I think all fandoms have toxic bubbles. I think fandom itself is inherently toxic - people take their obsession too far. It's a natural side effect of being so personally tied to a thing. Someone else is personally tied to your thing in a different way, and that makes them a problem. However, I suspect different media will trend more toxic than others. I would hazard to guess that outside of some small bubbles of toxicity, FF has a nicer fanbase than most others I can think of.

[Lord Golbez]

Well, after all, fan is literally an abbreviation for fanatic, so taking the obsession too far is kind of in the description. Granted, in modern parlance, "fan" tends to take on a less pejorative and less extreme connotation than "fanatic." Nevertheless, there's no mystery behind that origin. It's pretty easy to see why devotees of particular works would be referred to as fanatics.

[Loony BoB]

One thing I will say is that when we went to Kupo Con in Glasgow, the fans all seemed to really support each other and were really friendly. We didn't approach all that many and start up conversation of course, but just the ones we did talk to were really chatty and friendly. It was admittedly a bit of a nerdy affair by nature but it was great.

[Malreckus]

My theory is that there's no foundation to create a good fanbase on because of the franchise itself.

If Final Fantasy 1, 2, 3 (...) 14 and 15 were all about the same world, like; Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc., then the fanbase would be completaly different. If you're a fan of one game, you're a fan of the series.

In reality, today's fanbase is the same as sports: You can connect on your passion for football or some other sport (being the FF-series) and then you can connect or have heated discussions about your favorite team (like FF7 vs FF9). It's too broad, too many aspects.

So.. I'm guessing it's impossible to not get a toxic fanbase in Final Fantasy as a whole. But if you look at the fanbase for Final Fantasy VII, then there's no such thing as toxicity - right?

[Jessweeee♪]

I feel like it hasn't been cool to like the "latest game" since I became aware of the series, at FFVIII. Idk if that attitude was around for FFVII and before but it sure as hell was prevalent for the launches of FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXII, FFXIII, and FFXV. Some of these titles were forgiven and even highly regarded in later years, but when it was the hot new thing? Lots of bashing. Yes, even FFIX.

And don't even get me started on r/ffxiv. There's a string of comments in there right now about whether or not someone is obligated to tell the whole party they have a disability.

Oh also people are super mean on gamefaqs if you ask how to cheese any FFX-2 bossfights in the remaster with the catnip nerf. Like I just want to get 100% in one run I've been trying for 15 yeeeaaaarrrrssss