5 Hours In

[fat_moogle]

I've just started replaying Final Fantasy VII and Midgar lasted for 5 hours.

I'm in awe that the first part of the Remake will spread across two Blu-Ray discs. That's insane.

The question is, who can predict where we'll be 5 hours in to the Remake, and how that scene will play out?

I'm thinking it'll be around the part when Aerith & Cloud are talking in the park, before Tifa gets taken to Don Corneos.

Aerith: "You've got the sames eyes"

Cloud: "Hmm?"

Aerith: "MAKO eyes. My first boyfriend was in SOLDIER. 1st Class, like you"

Cloud: "Oh, what was his name? We could have worked together?"

*NOTE*

Now I'm hoping that Aerith won't just brush off her relationship with Zack as "not being serious". I still don't want her to reveal Zach because that will just send Cloud crazy too early in the game! So this is based on Aerith revealing just enough to give her and Cloud a connection.

*END NOTE*

Aerith: "I'm sorry, I shouldn't - I don't want to talk about him. It was a long time ago. I've been trying to move on but meeting you today - seeing those eyes - it just bought it all back. It's like..."

*The doors to Sector 7 open*

Aerith: "...wait, what's that?"

Cloud: "Tifa?!

Aerith: "That's Tifa? This is bad, Cloud. They're taking her to the Don's"

Cloud: "The Don's?"

Aerith: "I'll explain on the way. Hurry, Cloud! Tifa's in danger"

Cloud: *runs after Aerith*

[Wolf Kanno]

I can see the five hour mark in the remake being the attack on the second reactor. I have feeling we're going to get a lot more dialogue and optional scenes. In fact, I feel the new bike sequence with Jessie will probably take place around this point.

[Jinx]

I've said before that I think it's possible we'll be able to explore the other sectors, and that they'll all be fleshed out (and the ones that exist will be greatly expanded on).

The game (from what I know) isn't meant to be 1:1, so it's also very likely we'll have other missions with Avalanche before being caught.

[Wolf Kanno]

I've said before that I think it's possible we'll be able to explore the other sectors, and that they'll all be fleshed out (and the ones that exist will be greatly expanded on).

Not to be "that guy" but the funny thing here is that players actually visit almost every sector in VII in the original with the exceptions of Sector 2 and 3. Granted, some sectors are criminally short and the more obvious issue of never visiting both sides of a sector which is where I feel most fans mean when they say "explore the rest of the sector". I men the opening of the game is in Top Sector 1, the party escapes into Top Sector 8, AVALANCHE is based in Low Sector 7, the party takes the underground passage through Sector 4 to reach the No. 5 Reactor, Aerith and the Sephiroth Clone guy live in Sector 5, and Sector 6 is where Don Corneo and Wall Market are located. Sector 0 is the Shin-Ra HQ. So while Midgar may seem huge, we actually do visit almost half of the city in the original, and more likely visited all of the relevant places anyway.

[Jiro]

I wonder how seriously they considered opening the game with something other than the attack on Reactor No. 1. It kind of boggles the mind that they're trying to expand everything so much, but I am interested to see what they think was missing from the original in order to provide a more comprehensive experience. I do think the requirement for two Blu-Ray discs suggests an abundance of cut scenes, but who knows.

[Loony BoB]

I've said before that I think it's possible we'll be able to explore the other sectors, and that they'll all be fleshed out (and the ones that exist will be greatly expanded on).

Not to be "that guy" but the funny thing here is that players actually visit almost every sector in VII in the original with the exceptions of Sector 2 and 3. Granted, some sectors are criminally short and the more obvious issue of never visiting both sides of a sector which is where I feel most fans mean when they say "explore the rest of the sector". I men the opening of the game is in Top Sector 1, the party escapes into Top Sector 8, AVALANCHE is based in Low Sector 7, the party takes the underground passage through Sector 4 to reach the No. 5 Reactor, Aerith and the Sephiroth Clone guy live in Sector 5, and Sector 6 is where Don Corneo and Wall Market are located. Sector 0 is the Shin-Ra HQ. So while Midgar may seem huge, we actually do visit almost half of the city in the original, and more likely visited all of the relevant places anyway.
I mean, I suspect (and always have) that we only see tiny portions of each sector we have seen, not the whole deal. It was supposed to house how many people? The game was severely limited by technology back then. I think it's entirely possible we'll see about 5-10 times more of Midgar than we did in the original game. Hell, if you were to compare to the "real vision" of Midgar, I think what we'll see in the remake is still only going to be about 5-10% of the actual city when you're considering the population the place is supposed to hold (I'm assuming that Advent Children is a good representation of what the city size actually was).

Just going off the top of my head here, mind you, haven't done any real research. Maybe I'm misremembering some things.

[fat_moogle]

I wonder how seriously they considered opening the game with something other than the attack on Reactor No. 1. It kind of boggles the mind that they're trying to expand everything so much, but I am interested to see what they think was missing from the original in order to provide a more comprehensive experience. I do think the requirement for two Blu-Ray discs suggests an abundance of cut scenes, but who knows.

I don't think it would have even crossed their mind to open the game in any other way, although an alternate opening would have been interesting.

I'd like to know more about the history of Midgar. There's an NPC who says that each Sector used to have a name, but people forgot. I mean, really? I'm sure someone remembers.

[Mr Gashtacular]

I've said before that I think it's possible we'll be able to explore the other sectors, and that they'll all be fleshed out (and the ones that exist will be greatly expanded on).

Not to be "that guy" but the funny thing here is that players actually visit almost every sector in VII in the original with the exceptions of Sector 2 and 3. Granted, some sectors are criminally short and the more obvious issue of never visiting both sides of a sector which is where I feel most fans mean when they say "explore the rest of the sector". I men the opening of the game is in Top Sector 1, the party escapes into Top Sector 8, AVALANCHE is based in Low Sector 7, the party takes the underground passage through Sector 4 to reach the No. 5 Reactor, Aerith and the Sephiroth Clone guy live in Sector 5, and Sector 6 is where Don Corneo and Wall Market are located. Sector 0 is the Shin-Ra HQ. So while Midgar may seem huge, we actually do visit almost half of the city in the original, and more likely visited all of the relevant places anyway.
I mean, I suspect (and always have) that we only see tiny portions of each sector we have seen, not the whole deal. It was supposed to house how many people? The game was severely limited by technology back then. I think it's entirely possible we'll see about 5-10 times more of Midgar than we did in the original game. Hell, if you were to compare to the "real vision" of Midgar, I think what we'll see in the remake is still only going to be about 5-10% of the actual city when you're considering the population the place is supposed to hold (I'm assuming that Advent Children is a good representation of what the city size actually was).

Just going off the top of my head here, mind you, haven't done any real research. Maybe I'm misremembering some things.

I agree with this.

Seems people often forget that there's an entire city on top of the plate. We barely see it because we're mostly underneath, in the slums. I can really only think of the area where you first meet Aeris, before jumping on the train, and maybe two or three screens when you return to midgar by parachute later on.

I would love to see more of Midgar, especially the areas on top of the plate.

[Fox]

I want a new music track called "On Top Of The Actually Rather Nice Pizza"

[Lord Golbez]

Aeris lives in sector 6, not sector 5. Although the church might be in sector 5. Regardless, most of the sectors are visited in name only. Just visiting the reactor or a subway tunnel for a sector is not really getting to see that sector. The only ones you see a substantial amount of are 5-7 and arguably only 6 and 7.

Presumably, there's slums for each sector, because they mention that they used to be their own towns. I suppose some might be gone, but assuming there are and the church doesn't count as sector 5 slums, there's 6 sets of slums we don't see and at least that many areas of the city on the plate that we also don't see.

Also. If you want to get completely technical about and counting subway tunnels, I think you actually go through all the sectors on the return to Midgar. It's been awhile, so I could be wrong, but you can check location on the status screen for each new screen you enter and I think ypu end up going through all the sectors. But tunnels and such don't count for much.

[Wolf Kanno]

Actually Aerith's house is in Sector 5 (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sector_5), you have to access it through the Sector 5 Slums which just also happens to be the road needed to get to Sector 6.

Now I do get that what we're going to see with the remake is a larger expansion of these areas, I was simply pointing out that technically players have seen almost half of Midgar proper anyway in the original. As for seeing the top side, I feel that really comes down to a question of why? Obviously players are curious and wish to see it, but plot-wise, it makes more sense that AVALANCHE would steer clear of the top side of Midgar since it's got heavier control by Shin-Ra. Resistance movements usually don't like to stay in plain sight. Judging by what we see of Sector 1, it's likely a n industrial manufacturing zone. Sector 8 is an entertainment district, and Sector 7 looked like a housing district, which I imagine a lot of places above are, since I imagine the commerce section would be in Sector 0 with Shin-Ra hq. So I don't really imagine anything above ground would be important or interesting enough to really explore unless they become sidequest hell zones.

If you want an educated idea of what the top part is like, it's probably best to look into the original concept for Walt Disney's EPCOT project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPCOT_(concept)) as it apparently served as part of the inspiration for Midgar. Especially noticeable as the whole concept was basically a studio town where everyone worked for Disney that lived in the city which is what Midgar is ultimately.

[Lord Golbez]

Now I'm going to have to play it again, because I can see everyone online calling it the sector 5 slums but I could have sworn it was identified in game as the sector 6 slums.

What if they let us play as Reeve in the upper city? I doubt it, but it's just a thought on how they might incorporate more of the city.

One thing they could definitely add is the ability to go see Loveless instead of just having Cid talk about it near the end of the game.

[Loony BoB]

So I don't really imagine anything above ground would be important or interesting enough to really explore unless they become sidequest hell zones.
If it's "add-in" missions for Avalanche that offer lore and/or character development then I am all for it. I love learning more about the world of my favourite game of all time! I still think we haven't seen "seen almost half of Midgar proper anyway in the original" though, for the reasons presented in my earlier post. It's like saying you've seen half of the UK because you visited Belfast, Cardiff, Edinburgh and London. When I saw Advent Children and played Crisis Core I felt like the city was so much bigger and still had loads of potential for a much larger area to explore.

[Wolf Kanno]

Now I'm going to have to play it again, because I can see everyone online calling it the sector 5 slums but I could have sworn it was identified in game as the sector 6 slums.

What if they let us play as Reeve in the upper city? I doubt it, but it's just a thought on how they might incorporate more of the city.

One thing they could definitely add is the ability to go see Loveless instead of just having Cid talk about it near the end of the game.

To be honest, I actually thought you were right until I checked again and saw that. I think the confusion may come from Aerith mentioning her house is on the way to the Sector 6 slums.

The Reeve idea might be interesting though. As for Loveless... I feel Genesis pretty much killed my interest in exploring that bit of lore, especially since the title was simply the staff referencing an album by My Bloody Valentine. I actually prefer it just being an easter egg that acknowledging the lore cancer Crisis Core turned it into.



If it's "add-in" missions for Avalanche that offer lore and/or character development then I am all for it. I love learning more about the world of my favourite game of all time! I still think we haven't seen "seen almost half of Midgar proper anyway in the original" though, for the reasons presented in my earlier post. It's like saying you've seen half of the UK because you visited Belfast, Cardiff, Edinburgh and London. When I saw Advent Children and played Crisis Core I felt like the city was so much bigger and still had loads of potential for a much larger area to explore.

My issue is really more about relevance. I mean if Top Side Sector 5 turns into a place where I have dozens of NPCs with exclamations over their heads to ask me to go retrieve shit for them from the slums, then I feel we're better off not seeing that. It really depends on how they try to expand the story and setting because we have a clashing issue of Midgar being filled with interesting lore implications, but we're also trying to expand one of the most tightly designed narrative points in the whole game that really never left much room for expansion. I keep worrying that every time something new comes up in the plot, I'm going to feel like it's just the developers padding out the game instead of feeling like something that needed to be said. I already got that vibe from the Jessie motorcycle chase sequence which I keep trying to think of where such a moment would actually take place, and whether it was a good idea to take one of the most iconic moments from Midgar and just have you do it a few more times instead of just making that one moment better.

[Lord Golbez]

Ultimately, from a narrative standpoint, I agree with you. From an exploration standpoint, I think there's plenty of room to further develop Midgar, but in terms of narrative I don't see much call for it. You have the opening bombing mission to establish the setting and then you have a mission where things go awry in a way that flows into a chain of events leading to the escape from Midgar and pursuit of Sephiroth. You don't really need more than that to tell the story right.

[Cell]

If there's more time with Avalanche, I'm cool with optional missions that aren't required to progress the plot but fill out the supporting cast in the early parts of the game.

[Loony BoB]

My issue is really more about relevance. I mean if Top Side Sector 5 turns into a place where I have dozens of NPCs with exclamations over their heads to ask me to go retrieve trout for them from the slums, then I feel we're better off not seeing that. It really depends on how they try to expand the story and setting because we have a clashing issue of Midgar being filled with interesting lore implications, but we're also trying to expand one of the most tightly designed narrative points in the whole game that really never left much room for expansion. I keep worrying that every time something new comes up in the plot, I'm going to feel like it's just the developers padding out the game instead of feeling like something that needed to be said. I already got that vibe from the Jessie motorcycle chase sequence which I keep trying to think of where such a moment would actually take place, and whether it was a good idea to take one of the most iconic moments from Midgar and just have you do it a few more times instead of just making that one moment better.
Yeah, I get that it can be kind of annoying to be going "Oh, yet another motorbike getaway", but I really want more flesh to be given to the characters and if that means stuff like what Cell and Golbez said then I'm all for it. A lot of iconic moments are never going to be iconic again in the remake, at least in my opinion. I'm interested in seeing cool graphics and discovering new things. If it was just exactly the same plot and gameplay with better graphics... I mean that'd be cool but this is probably the only game I'd bother buying for that alone, and I'd still be wishing there were at least a few new things thrown in. The more the better... for now. We'll see if I still think so after playing it. xD

[Wolf Kanno]

I get the idea of doing new things for a game. I agree a remake should be more than a 1:1 port with better graphics. My hesitation comes from a combination of the Compilation giving me no faith in the remaining creators combined with taking a portion of the game that takes five to eight hours to complete and extending that content by four fold, which just sends up a red flag of redundant conversations and busy work when translated into actual game design.

I'm all for expanding Midgar, I just don't know if I have faith that SE in general can do it in a satisfactory way. It's not about ruining my nostalgia, as everyone knows, I don't have that for this game, it's more about padding out a remake with what I feel is cancerous game design in order to milk this victory lap. Going back to our discussion concerning how long that Guard Scorpion fight got stretched out, it's looking like from videos of the unedited fight taken afterwards that it may range about fifteen minutes to complete, and I'm just feeling that's a bit excessive. So I'm more concerned about playing a game that could have potentially been awesome but gets consistently dragged down by the creators stretching and milking every opportunity. "Let's expand the rest of AVALANCHE", great idea, but if that translates to the three of them stopping the plot so they can hand out quests that basically involve MMO/Monster Hunter shenanigans of twenty missions of "go here and kill X amount of Y" and then I'll reward you with a bit of dialogue about my character when it's complete; I'm going to be really disappointed.

[Mr Gashtacular]

i want to see barret interact with bougie top-platers :colbert:

[fat_moogle]

15 minutes for the Guard Scorpion fight does seem slightly excessive. However, I'm all for it. The Remake is going to be cutscene heavy. I mean. Cut. Scene. Heavy. Which I'm also all for. Boss battles might feel "stretched out" to balance out the gameplay-to-story.