The most overrated JRPG score

[Wolf Kanno]

Opposite of the other thread, what's a highly acclaimed musical score for a JRPG that you just don't care for?

[Fynn]

FFVIII

Anything by Motoi Sakuraba

Breath of Fire I

[Karifean]

Final Fantasy VI. Its speciality is character themes and it does that pretty well, but apart from Dancing Mad it doesn't really match up to the other games in the series beyond that. But what's even worse is the actual sound direction of the game, as the game uses some OSTs pretty poorly in a way that makes quite a few areas feel like much more a slog than they should have. (Also I really don't care for the opera, don't kill me)

[WarZidane]

Persona 5. Not that it's a bad OST, I just don't like it nearly as much as everyone else does, and I prefer Meguro's earlier styles.

But the single most overrated theme in JRPGs to me is still One Winged Angel.

[Fynn]

I’ll agree about Persona 5. It’s an incredibly cool, funky OST that is definitely great in its own way, but it’s nowhere near as groundbreaking as people make it out to be.

[Slothy]

Final Fantasy VI. Its speciality is character themes and it does that pretty well, but apart from Dancing Mad it doesn't really match up to the other games in the series beyond that. But what's even worse is the actual sound direction of the game, as the game uses some OSTs pretty poorly in a way that makes quite a few areas feel like much more a slog than they should have. (Also I really don't care for the opera, don't kill me)

*holding knife behind back* Hey Karifean? Could you come here for a moment? There's something you need to see. :tonberry:

[Vincent, Thunder God]

But the single most overrated theme in JRPGs to me is still One Winged Angel.

Yeah, I feel like this could be said about a lot of the famously "iconic" game themes

BTW someone had posted a in a thread a while back that JENOVA sounds like Jimi Hendrix, but I think the opening sounds way more like the bass line in "Father Cannot Yell" by Can:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIJaYFotmAg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6GrZYE2il0

[Loony BoB]

I'll echo the FFVI remark. For how highly rated it is compared to other games, it just doesn't cut it. Even the best song doesn't beat the best song from the game before it, let alone any of the games after it.

[Slothy]

Hey BoB? You mind joining me and Karifean for a second?

[Fynn]

I can help you think of a good punishment, Slothy.

[Fynn]

Honestly, the amount of sacrilege in this thread calls for a purification ritual

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[Vincent, Thunder God]

as great as it is, the VI OST doesn't grab me as much because i've never been a hardcore fan of the game itself (maybe because i played it years later? but that wouldn't explain IV being a favourite).

for me VII's score, while perhaps less sophisticated from a technical level (arguably poorer instruments/samples used, though they were well-suited to the game's mood) and maybe even from a compositional level, is more impactful because i really loved the game at one time. also it takes the earlier version of what would later become Aeris' theme (that short section in Aria Di Mezzo Carattere) and expands on it to make it even more emotionally resonant. aeris as a character would have very little emotional impact without Uematsu's score imo

[Fynn]

V, VI, and VII are Uematsu's peak, as far as I'm concerned, with VI being the peak of that peak. V and VII still have fantastic OSTs though

[Fynn]

Also, can I just bring up the sheer audacity of the Fierce Battle's intro being pretty much a 1:1 quote of that to the Overture to Phantom of the Opera?

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[Psychotic]

I love both the FFVI score (it's awesome, fuck da hataz) and Phantom and I don't hear that at all!

[Fynn]

There's literally an identical descending and ascending semitone pattern in both of them. In Phantom, it's on the organ, while the strings play it in FFVI.

[Psychotic]

It's probably a bit beyond my comprehension as I don't know much about composition :shobon:

Also I agree with Persona 5. It didn't really do much for me at all.

[Loony BoB]

I hate it so much when musicians get all antsy about "oh, this is a copy because this particular part is kind of like this other thing". It triggers me quite a bit, you can't copyright a beat, or at least, you certainly shouldn't be able to. It's such a blurry line between so many songs and the longer time goes on, the more and more songs are going to happen to cross over each other in beats and stuff and it's just... urgh. Pet peeve of mine. If it's clearly a different song, it's fine. Let the buyer make up their mind which they prefer, if any.

But I digress.

FFVI soundtrack isn't bad, it's just probably the most overhyped OST I've heard, much like FFVI is probably the most overhyped game I've played.

Also, I totally get that the orchestrated versions might be better, but what I hear in the game is what I hear in the game, and FFV's is better than FFVI, so this just exaggerates my opinion on the matter, because nobody really mentions FFV in great OSTs nearly as much as FFVI.

[Fynn]

I mean, it’s definitely a reference considering the opera plays a big part of FFVI. I happen to love Fierce Battle and think this is great. But sure, call me a nitpicky musician who polices what people can like or whatever :monster:

[Loony BoB]

Well, my comment is more directed towards legal situations that come about because of this kind of thing, not saying you yourself are the peak of this issue. You just started me thinking about it with your posts, and I took your "audacity" comment to suggest that they were ripping/copying it more than suggesting that it was cool that they referencing it.

[Lord Golbez]

The only thing that I could think that would make Persona 5 OST overrated is if people said the regular boss music is good. They don't, do they?

[Slothy]

Having audacity can be a positive or a negative. Positive in this case.

[Vincent, Thunder God]

Also, can I just bring up the sheer audacity of the Fierce Battle's intro being pretty much a 1:1 quote of that to the Overture to Phantom of the Opera?

Roger Waters would tell you that Lloyd Webber stole it from him first (Meddle side 2).

[Wolf Kanno]

I actually feel Persona 5's OST is one of the better ones Shoji Meguro has done for the series, course I'm bias because I actually preferred the OSTs of P1 and 2 over Meguro's more pop albums for 3 and 4. The fact he did more of a jazz piece with 5 brought back some nice memories of his work on the Raido titles. Frankly, Meguro's best musical work has always been the ones for the SMT series like SMT III, Strange Journey, and SMT IV.

As for VI, I still consider it Uematsu's best musical score in both an emotional and technical level. Not saying that's for everyone of course, so I won't begrudge anyone who feels it fell short. I'm with Fynn that Uematsu's peak was certainly the FFV-VII OSTs, with a final hooray with IX's score which is a bit underrated in comparison to VI and VII.

[Fox]

I'm kinda with Karifean on FFVI. Don't get me wrong, it's very good, and was even better for the time. But when people put it up as the best OST in the series, it loses me. Doesn't handle a candle to VII or IX, as far as I'm concerned.

Although yes, Dancing Mad is probably better than One Winged Angel. Certainly when you hear them both played in concert, Dancing Mad really shines. In fact some of the very best concert pieces are from VI: Dancing Mad, Terra's Theme, Maria & Draco. But the in-game versions? Eh. They're good. Maybe even great. But not the toppest of the top tier.

[Lord Golbez]

FFIX has good music, but I find it a bit too redundant on the good stuff and then there's a lot of meh tracks besides. I think FFVIII is better overall, but I would tend to agree that FFVI and FFVII are thepinnacle.ofnthenseries musically. Not so sold on FFV.

[Fynn]

You all judging FFVI by the individual tracks are looking at it totally backwards because by far the biggest strength of that soundtrack and why it complements the game so well is the fact that it's incredibly cohesive.

[Fox]

I'm *praising* individual tracks, it's as a whole that I don't feel it lives up as much to VII and IX. Especially IX, when you talk about a cohesive soundtrack with fantastic use of themes to tie the story and characters together, IX is a masterpiece in my view. VI is good for the same reasons. But not *as* good.

[Psychotic]

You all judging FFVI by the individual tracks are looking at it totally backwards because by far the biggest strength of that soundtrack and why it complements the game so well is the fact that it's incredibly cohesive.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu2sztIxQko (massive FFVI spoilers obviously)

Such smurfing mastery. Every god damn character theme. Every single one.

[Fynn]

I'm *praising* individual tracks, it's as a whole that I don't feel it lives up as much to VII and IX. Especially IX, when you talk about a cohesive soundtrack with fantastic use of themes to tie the story and characters together, IX is a masterpiece in my view. VI is good for the same reasons. But not *as* good.

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Ah yes. Such cohesion.

Don't get me wrong, I think IX definitely has an excellent soundtrack (definitely better than VIII's), but cohesive it ain't and the themes aren't as strong. VI's is very obviously modeled after an opera, and if that doesn't tie everything together on a metatextual level, I don't know what does.

[Fox]

Come on Fynn, that's arguing in bad faith and you know it. If that's the way you want to play it please tell me where exactly this fits in with FFVI's opera:

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[Fynn]

Obviously, that's what they play during the intermission where you go out to play video games


But yeah, I'll admit that one doesn't fit, but that's pretty much the only case in the entire soundtrack - which cannot really be said for FFIX, where you get tons of medieval forms in the Place to Call Home Arrangements (with the Ipsen castle theme being a cool example of hoquetus), then you've got all those romantic Memories of Life arrangements, but then you've got the weird Black Mage Village, the bloopy world map theme, the very techno'y Hildegarde theme, Ukulele De Chocobo...

I feel one soundtrack has a bit more whiplash than the other.


Still, as you read all this, keep in mind that IX's OST is up there with V, VI and VII as soundtracks that I consider to be Uematsu's best

[Fox]

And Slam Shuffle, and Spinach Rag and Johnny C. Bad and Mog's Theme.

And also bear in mind that the scope of the IX soundtrack is larger, with over double the number of tracks. During which I would argue that even though there are certainly differences in style from piece to piece, the structure of those pieces and their use of familiar melodies, instrumentation and chord structures worked together to reinforce the games core themes:

- Memory
- Identity
- Home

So yes, Black Mage Village is weird and out of place - much like the Black Mages themselves. They are artificial creations and are trying to make a home for themselves and learn what living means, it makes perfect sense that the music in that village breaks from the style used from long established societies like Burmecia and Lindblum. And Black Mage Village incorporates Vivi's Theme, helping connect the listener to the fact that he is one of them, that he belongs, that he has a home. Freya gets a similar treatment with the Burmecia Theme. A Place To Call Home... well, these arrangements are all associated with a literal ancient alien world. I think it's right to be so distinct from what you hear in Lindblum or Alexandria.

Melodies of Life is the song of Madain Sari and the summoners - it's played in a romantic style for Dagger because she is a princess of one of the great, cultured kingdoms of the world, Alexandria. The style is vastly different when it's used in Eiko's Theme because she's a child of Madain Sari. But when they come together, they play the same melody. So there's another example where I consider the 'whiplash' between two styles as something that helps reinforce the characters, their stories and the themes the game is exploring.

This isn't the case with everything of course. Just like with the examples I gave for VI, there are a selection of tracks in IX that don't really fit in anywhere. But, as with VI, I consider them by far the exception. VI's soundtrack tries to tie as much of it's soundtrack together under this metacontext of the opera, where as much of the OST tries to fit in with this idea of being an opera as much as possible, and I respect that. IX has a different approach. IX looks at various different styles of music and asks how it can use those styles to reinforce the story it's trying to tell.

And similar to what you said, don't interpret this as me trying to rant at you. I just feel strongly that IX is more carefully crafted than you perhaps give it credit for, and those are some of the reasons I believe that.

[Loony BoB]

I guess cohesiveness doesn't really matter to me if the songs just aren't that amazing. Also, having heard Dancing Mad played at Distant Worlds with a fancy organ, it still didn't move me in any way (the opera scene done live with opera singers admittedly was awesome though, but the OST version is meh). I think that's the main thing for me - while playing FFVI, I don't recall remembering the music for any reason other than it putting me to sleep. All the others since managed to do better, as did V.

[Psychotic]

I guess cohesiveness doesn't really matter to me if the songs just aren't that amazing. Also, having heard Dancing Mad played at Distant Worlds with a fancy organ, it still didn't move me in any way (the opera scene done live with opera singers admittedly was awesome though, bit the OST version is meh)As I was at that Distant Worlds performance I can comfortably tell you that's because the organist was awful and played a load of wrong notes. I was cringing a little bit and it was thoroughly disappointing.

[Loony BoB]

xD Glad I wasn't the only one who thought it was off!

[Wolf Kanno]

I've honestly never heard a live instrumental arrangement of Dancing Mad that I felt did justice to the piece. There is always one movement that is really good and then two others that are blah, especially the third movement which is my favorite part. Closest might be the Black Mages version, but I've never cared for the Distant Worlds version.

[Vincent, Thunder God]

i wonder if FF VIII's score had been from a game with less divisive gameplay/story if it would be considered one of the strongest OSTs by more people. i really liked some of the music, like the band performance of "My Mind" (one of the better themes - guess it's a shorter version of Eyes on Me? though it sounds like the weird instrument sample from An Idiot Abroad) but because i wasn't super engaged in the characters or world it was music that would have been better in something i cared more about - so maybe most of the bigger fans of this OST were already fans of Squall and Co? though I have seen some people saying the OST was great but game was trout too.

[Fynn]

Well, I love VIII and think Squall is the best protagonist, but the OST is pretty much FF bottom tier for me. It's mostly the arrangements though, since I tend to like orchestrations of Man with the Machine Gun far more than the original, for example. Other than the occasional blood-chilling Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec moment, there's just a lot of weird, goopy sounds all around and it just... doesn't sound very pleasant to me, tbh

[Vincent, Thunder God]

Actually the general weirdness of FF VIII (both the gameplay and score) kind of remind me weirdly of FF II.

[Lord Golbez]

I understand the "weird, goopy" sounds comment for Esthar and maybe a couple other things, but not for the soundtrack as a whole. Mostly it seems like a pretty mellow soundtrack to me.

[Loony BoB]

I quite enjoyed the variety of music in FFVIII. The different songs set different moods for the various moments/locales, and I can't remember thinking "urgh this song is trash"... maybe Deling City at a push. But the likes of FH, Balamb (both garden and town), Ragnarok, Man with the Machine Gun, Liberi Fatali and more? I like 'em.

[Wolf Kanno]

I enjoy VIII, but I'm not the biggest fan of the OST. I feel when you look at certain tracks individually, it's a nice soundtrack overall. Yet, when I listen to the score as a whole piece, I find it difficult to pay attention because I feel the OST is just too pedestrian. There is a nostalgia to the Balamb Garden theme, but the track is kind of dull as a musical piece and I tend to zone it out after the first loop. The OST has a similar problem that Chrono Cross' score has for me, which is that too many pieces blend together and the overall score feels a bit monotone with a few exceptions to jolt you back to being awake.

[Fynn]

I enjoy VIII, but I'm not the biggest fan of the OST. I feel when you look at certain tracks individually, it's a nice soundtrack overall. Yet, when I listen to the score as a whole piece, I find it difficult to pay attention because I feel the OST is just too pedestrian. There is a nostalgia to the Balamb Garden theme, but the track is kind of dull as a musical piece and I tend to zone it out after the first loop. The OST has a similar problem that Chrono Cross' score has for me, which is that too many pieces blend together and the overall score feels a bit monotone with a few exceptions to jolt you back to being awake.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/533/711/d95.gif

[Karifean]

Since this is now the FF VIII OST debate thread, personally I find VIII to have pretty superb sound direction. The OST never fails at capturing and supporting what's going on perfectly, and in the way whereby when you hear the relevant track on the soundtrack it immediately replays the scene from the game and associated feelings with it in your mind. It helps that VIII has close to zero generic dungeons (except for that fucking desert prison) so there's always something memorable to associate the tracks with as well. And the style of the tracks works wonderfully to support this. I probably wouldn't like VIII's OST as much on the whole if it wasn't attached to VIII, but together they form a whole that's greater than the sum of its parts and it feeds back into just listening to OST tracks on its own, at least for me. Though I will admit VII for instance has this even better on the Disc 1 OST, VIII has more unique tracks overall.

Also I fucking love all manner of witch-themed tracks, sue me.