Headers...?

[musashius]

Y'know how we used to have headers?

Yeah, it was a bad idea for people who kinda put a lot of stuff in it *cough* Jeff *cough* ;). But perhaps we can bring them back just for people who use different colors when posting?

I used to use that grey kinda color for my posts... but then I realized how tedious it was, having to copy & paste the code everytime.

Yeah, I know... you could argue that it'd be their (the people who use colors) problem to deal with... but it'd just be more convenient, in my opinion. *shrugs*

As for the problem from when we used to have them (ie. too big of pictures, too much stuff, et cetera), maybe we can enforce a rule that you're not allowed to put pictures in the headers and that the headers are only for colored text.

Your thoughs, please.

[The Man]

I, for one, would like a single tag that allows us to input a custom colour. That would be three bytes in the database, and it surely wouldn't be that hard to implement, even though it would require creating another new entry in every user's profile in the EoFF user database.

Plus, there is always the possibility that people will want to change post colours along with their profile. It would be a lot more convenient to do that if we could change just one number. :D

Peace
The Man

[crono_logical]

If headers are enabled, I'd suggest disabling of HTML in them, and only using vB code, since that'll stop people messing about with tables and such then :)

[musashius]

Originally posted by crono_logical
If headers are enabled, I'd suggest disabling of HTML in them, and only using vB code, since that'll stop people messing about with tables and such then :)

Yeah, I agree, as well. But does vB code allow color codes (ie. #000000 and so forth)?

I think that if we ever enable headers again, only the coding for the color of text you want should be allowed.

Or perhaps somewhere along the lines of what The Man said. Maybe there's a hack that puts the code before someone starts the post and he/she can edit that color in his/her profile?

[The Man]

[color=7eb7ed]

Seems to work fine for me. If I want Britty Blue, for example, I can use the [color=value of Britty blue, which happens to be 7eb7ed, if memory serves] tag to open it, and [/color] to close it, though that's not necessary in a header, I guess. Still, vB code likes there to be an opening and a close to every tag. Maybe that could be worked around for a header or something. I dunno.

Peace
The Man

[Dr Unne]

God almighty, please don't bring back headers in any form. I'm begging here.

[musashius]

Originally posted by Dr Unne
God almighty, please don't bring back headers in any form. I'm begging here.

Aw c'mon, Unney. Be nice. =P

It's only gonna be there for people who use colored text in their posts. It's not like we're going to have huge pictures before posts and shtuff... I hope.

[The Man]

There could also be the option to disable the display of headers, much like there's an option to disable the display of sigs. I don't think it would be that big of a deal, myself. Besides, the colouring of text and individualised selection of font face isn't really that horrible, as long as people don't default their font face to Zapf Dingbats and their font colour to solid black. But I couldn't imagine that there wouldn't be a rule against such things, and I also can't imagine why anyone would want to use such ridiculous settings for any reason at all, so yeah.

Peace
The Man

[Dr Unne]

I don't care, I'm not part of Staff any more, they'll decide whatever they want. I just remember last time we had them and it sucked. Looking at 400 different colored posts will be bad enough. The MB will once again be all about showing off your crap in your posts instead of actually keeping up what little conversation we have around here now. Little kids and spam junkies flock to MBs where they can show off their pretty colors. All for what? What purpose does adding colors serve other than to give Unne a headache and make the MB unreadable?

[The Man]

Well, then, if users were given the option of disabling the viewing of the custom post colours, then everyone could be happy. I hope.

Peace
The Man

[Agent Proto]

¬_¬ What's this about mentioning my name with lots of stuff in headers?

[musashius]

Hmm... that's true, Unne. I never really thought about the fact that people would just want to show off their colors.

<small><b>EDIT:</b> Just messin' with you Jeff. But I remember when you had that pic of that dude in your header that would usually screw up the tables if you had a short post. =P [ please don't kill me ]

[Loony BoB]

Let your true colours shine...

...nah. >=P I imagine The Man would have the OOC tag there. xD And some people would use spoilers, and that would piss me off to no end.

[The Man]

Originally posted by Loony BoB
I imagine The Man would have the OOC tag there. xDWhat you say? "You have no chance to survive make" *gets shot by a sniper*
Seriously, we could disable the use of such menaces as the OOC tag or the spoiler tag for use in headers. All we're really asking for is a font colour tag, a font size tag, and a font face tag. Er, I think. Anyway, if someone's header became annoying, I'm sure that the staff could get them to change it.

Peace
The Man

[Endless]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think having headers was a hack that has not been rewritten with the various upgrades, or maybe messing with the templates + the user profile fields.

anyway I don't find them that essential, or we'll look like Acmlm's.

[crono_logical]

Originally posted by Dr Unne
I don't care, I'm not part of Staff any more, they'll decide whatever they want. I just remember last time we had them and it sucked. Looking at 400 different colored posts will be bad enough. The MB will once again be all about showing off your crap in your posts instead of actually keeping up what little conversation we have around here now. Little kids and spam junkies flock to MBs where they can show off their pretty colors. All for what? What purpose does adding colors serve other than to give Unne a headache and make the MB unreadable?

When it's put that way, I think it might be better off without headers :p Thinking about it, I appreciate seeing almost all posts fairly uniform as well, even font wise if the odd user decides to change their colours, which isn't all too often :p Headers might be nice at small message boards where there isn't much going on, but at a place as large as EoFF, I'll have to agree with Unne that reading all these different styles of posts would get annoying rather quickly :)

[Shlup]

Too many good arguments here... Luckily, my decision on this isn't at all important. I think I'll have to go with the "too many colors hurt me" opinion.

[Zell's Fists of Fury]

I agree. Fifteen diffrent colors including neon green and puke brown would probably cause my brain to melt and that's something I could definatly do without. I say leave it just the way it is. *nod*

[The Man]

<FONT COLOR=38E897>I would like to point out for the sake of all those who dislike people using custom font colours that those of us who enjoy using them wouldn't have to bother you by our use of such colours anymore were headers suddenly enable, as an option to disable the usage of custom text colours, fonts, or sizes in forum viewing could surely be introduced. I think it would be a very nice introduction to the site, myself -- I could see it making more people happy than currently are.

And yes, I just decided to start colouring my own posts. If headers are re-introduced, I won't need to do that by hand anymore, and I won't bug those of you who seem not to enjoy the custom font colours.

Whatever. Just my thoughts.

Edit: Also, I realised that we wouldn't have to close users' font tags when we quoted them anymore, were headers implemented. At least we wouldn't have to do that if the quote function were implemented like it is in FFI.

If anyone is annoyed by my recent decision to use custom font colours, I'll take that into consideration, but I'm unlikely to change that, as I happen to like my colour green very much. If you don't like it, remember that the sooner headers get implemented with the option to disable their viewing, the sooner you won't have to put up with it anymore. That said, I think headers would be a good thing for all of us.

Peace
The Man</font>

[crono_logical]

<FONT COLOR="#66FFFF" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:Over="this.color='#FF3366';" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:Out="this.color='#66FFFF';" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:Down="this.color='#33FF33;';" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:Up="this.color='#FFFF33';">Heck, if headers were enabled here, I'd be using them too to be honest, as you may have seen by my rollover/clickable effects I have on my posts elsewhere, and as demonstrated in this post :D :p But I'm still sticking with that they can get too distracting at such a large board with so many users such as this one, they're stil better suited to smaller boards :p</FONT>

[The Man]

<FONT COLOR=38E897>I'd support the use of three tags for headers: font face, font size, and font colour. That'd be all. Each of these could be enabled or disabled by users at will. While I like your magically-changing text, crono, I think some users would take it even further than that, and it could be distracting.

Just think about it -- yes, old posts by various users who already use their custom colour tags would still retain their old colouration, but the new ones would not, and I think this would make some people very happy. I believe that I post more often than any other user, so perhaps my new adherence to my font colour will change people's minds.

Yeah indeed, try clicking on crono's text after moving your mouse over it. Very cool. :)

Peace
The Man</font>

[Dr Unne]

Yep, that's an eyesore all right. Oh well. It takes two keystrokes to insert a font tag into a post. CTRL+V.

[The Man]

<FONT COLOR=38E897>Yes, it does. And if we have custom headers, we won't even need those two keystrokes, and you won't have to look at them anymore, since you'll be able to disable them.

Peace
The Man</FONT>

[Britt]

What makes you think that implementing a disable-feature for viewing of headers would be so easy, Man?

[The Man]

Originally posted by Britt
What makes you think that implementing a disable-feature for viewing of headers would be so easy, Man? <FONT COLOR=38E897>Uh... because there's one for the signatures and it should be more or less the same algorithm. Shouldn't it?

Peace
The Man</FONT>

[CloudDragon]

I'm agreeing with The Man on this one. I don't know much about all the technical stuff and such of this but I think there should be at least those three tags. It may mean looking at 15 different colors to a page but even so, who knows how many people are actually going to set their colors other than the default white that is already here. I know many people probably are too used to their white colored font here and may NOT want to change.

[Dr Unne]

It would involve at least editing the user control panel template to include a new option, creating a new server-side variable to every user to use as a flag, adding three more server-side variables at least for storing the font attributes the user sets, and hacking the php code for displaying posts to include a check against each user's flag in every post to see whether to display the fonts stuff or not. We've had bad experiences in the past with hacking the .php's. Last time we had headers and all the other extra stuff, we ended up wiping the VBB clean and installing it fresh to get rid of it all. Last time, one "little" hack led to another "little" hack until the MB was bogged down so much it was hardly usable. The option for the signatures comes installed with the VBB standard, I believe, so it's different than writing a hack. The people who wrote the sig code wrote the rest of the VBB code too, they probably know what they're doing. But I don't really know all that much about php, I might be wrong about all of that.

[The Man]

Originally posted by Dr Unne
It would involve at least editing the user control panel template to include a new option, creating a new server-side variable to every user to use as a flag, adding three more server-side variables at least for storing the font attributes the user sets, and hacking the php code for displaying posts to include a check against each user's flag in every post to see whether to display the fonts stuff or not. We've had bad experiences in the past with hacking the .php's. Last time we had headers and all the other extra stuff, we ended up wiping the VBB clean and installing it fresh to get rid of it all. Last time, one "little" hack led to another "little" hack until the MB was bogged down so much it was hardly usable. The option for the signatures comes installed with the VBB standard, I believe, so it's different than writing a hack. The people who wrote the sig code wrote the rest of the VBB code too, they probably know what they're doing. But I don't really know all that much about php, I might be wrong about all of that. <FONT COLOR=38E897>Ouch. Perish the thought, then.

Well, if anyone can figure out a way to do it easily, then I'd say go for it. I know next to nothing about vBulletin code myself, so yeah.

If you could get the signature code from the company that make vBulletin yourself, then that would make the hack a lot easier, I'd guess. I suppose there might also be some way to test it out on a smaller mock-message board or something, but I don't know about that, either.

Peace
The Man</FONT>

[Britt]

Originally posted by The Man
<FONT COLOR=38E897>Uh... because there's one for the signatures and it should be more or less the same algorithm. <I>Shouldn't</I> it?</font>

Not necessarily. The signature one was written entirely by vBulliten, and since we'd have to code our very OWN header hack, it would very likely be <i>quite</i> different from anything like that.

At any rate, what Unne said is very true. The last time we installed headers, the board went to Hell under the weight of the enormous amount of hacks we were using. Load times were almost doubled if not tripled, the system became incredibly unstable and prone to crashing for hours each day, and flaws in the hacks were exploited.

Let's consider the two options:

1.) Someone slaves away for hours writing a hack to create post headers, works even harder to limit the hack to your specifications, and then installs it while running the risk of screwing up absolutely everything. In addition, usability of the fora may be lessened in addition to many people being angry about eyesores.

The eyesore complaints lead to ANOTHER hack that takes hours to write, which will make headers disappear. This will then be implemented into the various required sections of the fora, at the cost of more time. This leads to further possibility of mishap within the fora's opperation.

Finally, everyone has what they want after multiple hours of slaving performed by someone that probably didn't even want headers ANYWAY.

2.) People utilize CTRL+V.

I may be an insensitive fascist, but I think I know which one makes a lot more sense.

[The Man]

Originally posted by Britt
Not necessarily. The signature one was written entirely by vBulliten, and since we'd have to code our very OWN header hack, it would very likely be quite different from anything like that. <FONT COLOR=38E897>Then Unne was right. Okay... well, would vBulletin give out the header hack if we asked for it? Just a thought. If they'd give it to us, that would probably simplify the issue significantly.

Peace
The Man

[Britt]

VBulliten has nothing to do with hacks, though. They don't have a header hack, or else it would be pre-implemented in our fora. Hacks are written by independant sources. (read: Board owners.)

[The Man]

<FONT COLOR=38E897>Eh, that's not what I really meant, but I didn't make myself clear. There has to be some bit of code that they use to allow for the non-viewing of signatures, no? I'd be surprised if we couldn't find some way to make that code apply for headers as well. We'd need the code for that, though, before we could see whether we'd be able to apply it.

Of course, I know nothing about how vBulletin works, so my suggestion might be impossible. But it's just a thought. If you can give me some tangible reason why we couldn't apply their signature code to headers, then I'll shut up.

I like my green too much to part with it now, however. *keeps using it in his posts*

Peace
The Man

[Dr Unne]

All the code of the VBB is freely availible to us. We'd just have to search through the thousand lines of code and find everything that makes the sig thing work. Then copy and modify it to make it work for whatever we want to implement. And hope to God we don't forget anything or make any mistakes. Anything is possible, but there're always risks. Risks to the MB probably aren't worth taking except for things we know very very well how to do, or things that are essential. Just my opinion.

[The Man]

<FONT COLOR=38E897>I guess you're right, Unne. They ought to have at least mapped out where we can find the code, though, and I'm sure we could find it *somewhere.*

If someone on staff runs a really small message board or something, they could try implementing it on that before we decide to do the same thing on EoFF.

Peace
The Man

[CloudDragon]

I pretty much agree with Unne too. If we could be able to test this out on a smaller message board or so that someone may have abandoned or that we could use could be helpful, but we'd still need to find out the code. I think we should be catious on taking the risks, too as if we were ever able to figure out a code for this, we'd definitely need to do some testing.

[The Man]

<FONT COLOR=38E897>There's also the possibility that some other forum may have already figured out a similar hack, in which case we could just ask them to let us pilfer from them. I wonder if there's a forum about vBulletin forums. *has no life*

Peace
The Man</FONT>

[CloudDragon]

<font color=00E499>Well, I'm sure there may be a site like that, that is probably if it would be a site maybe bigger than EoFF and using vBulletin, or maybe some kind of vBulletin hack site, if any, but I'm not too sure they may be one of those.

[Dr Unne]

Or we could leave the VBB like it is.

[Britt]

Originally posted by The Man
They ought to have at least mapped out where we can find the code, though, and I'm sure we could find it *somewhere.*


I'm sort of amused by your use of the word "we," to say the least. ;) I don't at all think that this is something worth screwing around with the fora for, at least until Bleys gets back, because he's the one that sits and writes hacks.


Originally posted by Dr Unne
Or we could leave the VBB like it is.

Wiser words have truly never been spoken. I think we all ought to heed them for now.

[The Man]

Originally posted by Britt
I'm sort of amused by your use of the word "we," to say the least. ;)<FONT COLOR=38E897>Heh.

</FONT>
I don't at all think that this is something worth screwing around with the fora for, at least until Bleys gets back, because he's the one that sits and writes hacks.<FONT COLOR=38E897>Agreed.

</FONT>
Wiser words have truly never been spoken. I think we all ought to heed them for now. <FONT COLOR=38E897>Again, agreed.

Britt, I apologise, as I didn't even see your earlier edit until this morning. Silly me. Anyway, yes, what you said there makes perfect sense. If I find a forum about vBulletin forums, though, I'll let you all know.

Peace
The Man</FONT>

[crono_logical]

Originally posted by The Man
If I <I>find</I> a forum <I>about</I> vBulletin forums, though, I'll let you all know.


I believe that's the one at vbulletin.com :)

[Britt]

It's all good. ;) Don't let my grumpiness get to you. xD

[CloudDragon]

<font color=22E499>*Agrees also* I wonder if Bleys would actually be willing to help out with a hack for the headers, or if he would be for or against it.

[The Man]

<table><tr><td bgcolor=#204962><font size=5 color=38E897>OOC:</font></td><td><FONT COLOR=38E897 SIZE=2>I actually saw that Bleys was online on AIM yesterday, but I never got a chance to speak to him, as I was only in for a few minutes at every point he was online. We'll see.</FONT></td></tr></table><FONT COLOR=38E897>
And Britty: Don't worry. It's all good. :)

Peace
The Man