The CROWN and the Castle of Ordeals

[Patrick Henry Clay]

The CROWN, the one that Astos demands from you and that the wizards in the Marsh Cave were guarding, is neccessary to enter the Castle of Ordeals. I have wondered about this for some time, on two points: First of all, since you need the TNT to break to canal to even get to the Castle of Ordeals (You need to get the canoe at least, then need to get to the place itself), why is it necessary to have this as a qualifier? You should have it no matter what by this point in the game, and I think it'd be impossible not to. Assuming this, then the reason it was put in must be something regarding the storyline. The FFI world and story has always amazed me with its intricacy disguised by simplicity, at least in my opinion, and I was wondering if anyone has done any speculation on this matter. Could the crown originally be from the Northern Civilization, and Astos needs it to somehow use the power of that civilization? Could Astos desire it so that he could enter the Castle of Ordeals for some purpose (I doubt if he did get the Rat's Tail that Bahamut would even think of bestowing new powers on a dark elf, but maybe...) , or maybe the Dark Elves were involved in the construction of the Castle of Ordeals? I don't reallly have a definite question, just looking for any speculation.

[Kirkpatrick]

I never realy thought much about the Castle/Crown. I just figured that it was some kind of anti-cheating thing, so that if you somehow managed to skip the marsh cave, then you wouldn't be able to do the Castle of Ordeals - but by the time you could survive the Castle, the Cave would be a piece of cake.
Your ideas are much more interesting, so I may have to adopt some of them.

[Patrick Henry Clay]

***Some Spoilers Below***
I just got the FFHackster program that I saw in another post, and am familiarizing myself with it. An interesting idea I have is to create a hack of FFI which would actually be a prequel of sorts. FFI focuses on the southern civilization in its period of chaotic upheaval, with the Earth and Fire fiends wreaking havoc. The Northern civilization has already been destroyed, and its warriors have already been sent against Chaos and failed. These were the Sky Warriors, that became bats that now hang out in the Temple of Fiends, presumably where they were transformed. Though FFI goes into the story of the northern civilization, a once proud culture destroyed by Tiamat and Kraken, it leaves many open-ended issues. This Crown/Castle is one of them: a possible link between the Northern and Southern civilizations? It may be a lot of work, but it seems like it would be possible to make a prequel using the same engine, just hacking the rom, in an attempt to flesh out this potentially intricate storyline. Perhaps it could trace the path of the sky warriors instead of the light warriors. There are many such possibilities, and I think that there are many avenues that have yet to be explored regarding FFI world and history. Does it sound like a good idea at all to anyone?

[Dr Unne]

No idea about the Crown thing. I think FF1 wasn't really thought all the way through before they started selling it. A lot of NES games were like that. There were a lot of NES games that were so poorly coded that it was impossible to beat them. I'm very happy that FF1 is even as good as it is, despite the non-working elemental weapons, spells that do nothing, buggy world map, invisible castle-dwellers, semi-corny translations, an ending that makes no sense to any sane human being, an arguably unbalanced battle system, etc. The good thing is that it's just a game, and a fantasy game at that, so imaginative people like ourselves and find some patterns in things. All those little quirks are part of what makes FF1 so darn fun, and interesting to think about.

I don't care much for mods, but that sounds like a good idea I guess.

[Daventhalas]

Noooo! The ending made sense to me... I'm not sane... @_@


But then again, I'm always up for a good paradox. Damn FF made me addicted to them.


But yeah, I had breifly considered the crown thing many years ago, came up with nothing, and forgot about it. It could be just poor coding, but it's cool to think it was on purpose to make us strive to know more about FF.


And am I the only one who calls it just FF? I hate putting a 1 in there... it's degrading I say!

[Patrick Henry Clay]

It made sense to me as well, in a paradoxical sort of way. The fact that you were able to stop the time loop shows that you truly were the Light Warriors, because to break a time looop that should make Chaos infinitely powerful, and to stop something that should be unstoppable would require more than just strength and power. In any case, I used to, back in the day, call it FF as well. I doubt it comes as much of a surprise, though, that when I say "FF" or "Final Fantasy", immediately people think I am talking about 7, 8, 9, or 10 (usually 10 nowadays). Then when I tell them I am speaking of the original, and that I have not even played 10 (I have no PS2, unfortunately), they say that I am not truly a Final Fantasy Fan. I ask them if they've ever played the original, and they seem to think I am talking about 7... and they have never played the original. Ever since such things have happened, I've always clarified by saying FFI, even though it is degrading... having to add a tag to the game that started the series, which I view as the best roleplaying game ever made. In any case, it may have been an error, the crown/ordeals thing, but it's far more fun to speculate that it has some significance in the story to me.

[Paladin]

It could be possible that Astos was unable to enter his castle (Castle of Ordeals) without it. That is of course saying he was actually powerful enough to defeat the dragons. Perhaps the wizards weren't even evil but actually trying to keep Astos from getting inside. (Although honestly what's the point of going inside unless he plans to plan a siege of Cardia there or something.)

As for the FF1 thing I've noticed that the kids of today are looking forward to bigger and more technological games. Even my nephew who was born only a year after me (Don't ask; long story.) doesn't seem to know of the joy the NES brought me with games like Contra and Zelda. Fortunately for me I've reclaimed some of my youth thanks to emulators but some go on claiming that FF7 and FF8 are the best Final Fantasies ever (Although FF7 rules. :p) without even having played FF1 or even FF4. It's sort of sad that most people think of Vivi if you say "Black Mage" instead of a little kick ass dude on the NES with Fire 3. Anyway, enough of my rambling about today's youth being disrespectful. :tongue:

[chadmonkey]

As has been mantioned before, maybe poor programming and story planning is to blame for the crown paradox. I always thought that maybe the monster penninsula Northeast of Pravoka was actually a land bridge in the early development of the game and that the characters were supposed to trek up there at one point and perhaps there would be access to an airship or something of the sort that would allow you to travel over to the castle of ordeals(if it wasn't up by Lefein in the beginning). Thus by enforcing the party to have the crown kept players from cheating and going to the Castle of Ordeals ahead of time. Then maybe the developers decided to change the story around and remove the land bridge, but forgot to fix those top two rows, creating a great leveling spot for us today and making us wonder about the crown. Anyway, it's just a thought.

[DJZen]

I seriously doubt things were that well thought out. Certain aspects of the game just SCREAM "thrown together at the last minute", specifically the non-working magic spells and elemental weapons with no elemental biasing, or the regenerating monsters that don't regenerate, or the "plot", heck, even the circle of sages seems hastily added. Notice how Kary continues to threaten the world even after she's dead? They probably meant to give you the crown in some sub quest that they didn't have time to code, or maybe they made it but they thought it was too hard to figure out how to get it. Maybe it was supposed to be the prize for winning the mini-game. Or who knows, while we're on this subject, is there any point to having the Lute? Or have I just not played the game in too long and forgot something obvious?

[Paladin]

The Lute opens something... special... :shifty:

[DJZen]

Right, but you need to wait for something *ahem* special to happen before you can do that? I don't remember being able to use it right after getting the lute....

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

The Lute's one of those things that seems to be useless when you first get it but turns out to be absolutely vital by the end of the game. You love it.

[Paladin]

It doesn't change anything by getting it since it's free and it lets you watch your main character jam on it (on the WSC anyway) so I'm happy. :p

[darkangel5681]

At first, it seems the Lute's main purpose is to keep you from wasting items (heal potions for instance), but it's real purpose is...

*****SPOILER*******





to break the Time Gate in the Temple of Fiends Revisited.




*******END SPOILERS*******

[DJZen]

wasting items? huh? okay, I know it opens that that, but can you enter the temple of fiends in the past by the time you get the lute?

[Dignified Pauper]

Ok, we all know Astos is a DARK ELF!

We obtain the crown from the marsh cave

The crown gets us into the castle of ordeals.

Bahamut is in charge of Castle of Ordeals

Castle of Ordeals is a cause for class change (Mt. Ordeals in FFIV changes Cecil from DK to Pal, will link into this later)

Old Sage at Castle of Ordeals must be a spirit, or powerful mage that Bahamut knows nothing of. He guards the castle and obviously is why not many true warriors can go through the Castle of Ordeals...

Ok, lets start the story...

The Northern civilizations and Southern civilizations were linked to eachother. It is my belief that the South was primitive compared to the North. Castle of Ordeals was at once the center of a mighty army that had clashed with the Lufein's in the east. From here, Garland was born. This nation from which the Castle of Ordeals originated from (lets refer to it as Mysidia for now) Mysidia. Bahamut was born and raised from Dragons that had been captivated by Mysidians. He grew to be the most powerful Dragon in the universe and was granted powers far greater than normal dragons. Also, it was here that Garland was born, a great warrior, but consumed by evil.A war between Mysidians and Lufeins erupted. Each side was fairly advanced with technology, but the Lufeins were slightly farther. The war between the Lufeins and Mysidians left the Mysidian's decimated by the might of Lufeins. Although both sides lost many casualties, the Lufeins won. Garland, meanwhile was lost at a sea battle, ending up on the southern continent near the Temple of Fiends (renamed Chaos in the PSX remake). There, he unlocked the power of darkness, unsealing the fiends of darkness and claiming the power of chaos into his own. What he didn't plan for, was that the epitomy of the chaos consumed him turning him into a beast. All the while this had happened, his human form was transferred 400 years into the future. There, Human Garland kidnapped the princess and thought he was all mighty and powerful. In the future the Warriors of Light killed him, and that is the story of FF1.

Back in the past, the Elves had originated from the southern continent. After the fiend and the power of darkness was set free, some of the elves became corrupt and turned into Dark Elves. These elves were banished and sent to the ruins of the Northern Continent. The Lufein Tower of Mirage, from which they monitored the world had already been sieged by Tiamat, so they were helpless as hordes of Dark Elves raided their lands and forced them back farther east. The Dark Elves then discovered the ruined capital of Mysidia. Bahamut had already left the castle and rejoined the dragons on the island where he became their leader. He had learned of the prophecy of Luin(early ancestor of Lukahn... just imagine it), while Lukin traveled the world. He designed a plan to one day test the warriors. He took the tail of a rat and blessed it, taking it back to the Castle of Mysidia (which later he would refer to it after the Castle of Ordeals)

Meanwhile, the mighty wizard of Mysidia (ancestor of the future elder that would be the mayor of the city in FFIV, lets call him... Belthasar) met with the leader of the Dark Elves (Astoms, ancestor of Astos). Astoms demanded the old mage leave the castle to him, and give him the crown. Belthasar denied and fought with them vigorously, successfully making them flee, but leaving himself weak and frail. His magic had been mostly drained. He took the crown to the Kingdom of the Elves, leaving it in the care of the King. He then returned back to the Castle where he died, but his soul remained, leaving a curse upon the castle that only he who bears the crown of mysidia would be able to enter.
The elf King ordered his soldiers to hide the crown deep within the marsh cave, where there he placed demonic mages(piscodemons in PSX version) as a curse to protect the crown. Astoms was left clueless as the what had happened, and when he tried a second siege on the castle, he saw the spirit of Belthasar and considered it foolish to fight with him, thinking he was still alive.

Years passed, and the crown became a legend. Northern civilization was almost completely wiped out. In an attack on the Tower of Mirage by the dark elves, Tiamat was enraged and wiped almost their entire civilization out. The city of Gaia was left untouched being in its remote area, and advanced mages. the remaining Lufeins made settlement in the eastern forest, hiding from the Tiamat. Kraken took siege of the Water Palace and sunk it deep into the Ocean. The people were spared, but they were shaken by great fear. Lich began rotting the land and sent his undead vampires to ravage the land of Melmond. Choas stayed in the Temple of Chaos, closing it off and sealing himself. The only way in was through the time portal in which garland the human created upon releasing evil unto the World. To counter this Chaos closed the portal by a Black Orb that could only be unsealed by the combined forces of the four crystals of Earth. Marylith(kary) went to the volcano and relished in its flames, sleeping untill her time was to come. One remaining and brave Lufein hid his airship in the desert and left the Levistone in the ice caverns, protecting the stone with the Eye of Lufein.

The Dark Elves, after being decimated, thought of something new to do. The survivors began building massive ships and traveled south to where they were born. There, they secretly landed and built their castle (the ruins where Astos is located). After it was built they sent scouts into the Elf Lands to see how strong the elves were. Astor (Astos's father) thought they had weakened over time and led an assault. The war between the Elves lasted a few years, resulting in the Dark Elves defeat, and their castle in ruins. However, the Dark Elves learned of the ancient Mysidian crown that was hidden in the Marshes. But after being decimated with only a few survivors (astos being one of them) they believed that they had no hope to return to the Mysidian castle. Astos was the last alive and trained everyday, growing madder and madder by the defeat he saw as a child. His magic grew as the elves of elfheim let him be and later forgot of him. He then persisted to steal the Crystal Eye from Matoya, and then put a spell on the prince of Elfheim to sleep forever.

Skipping the events of FF1

After Chaos's defeat, the future changed. The dark elves were left alive as the fiends were left sealed by the death of Chaos. Lufein persisted to fight the Dark Elves, untill finally they killed them all. The Mysidians left their old castle and created a small city of advanced mages, more advanced that Gaia's, farther west. Years and amongs millions of years passed. Belthasar, after dying ages before, left his spirit at Castle Ordeals, which was later destroyed by natural causes. A mountain range rose up where the old Mysidian nation once stood, it was at this mountain where the Mysidian's of FFIV established as a holy land. The spirit of Belthasar remained, awaiting the time of new heroes to come and rid the universe of an evil that existed elsewhere... The Moon. The Lufeins created the first airship and learned much of the universe. They were visited by Lunarians, and they together created the Tower of Babil/Zot, and the Lunar Whale.

*I think I just proved all Final Fantasies are linked in some way*

*Oh, sorry if the story is choppy and not in order, it just kinda came to me as I wrote it*

[Dragonfire]

about making a prequel of FF1: it would be much better to do it in RPG Maker 2000/2003. Mainly because it can do much much more than FF Hackster especially with event making. While RPG Maker is primarily 16-bit, i guess you could make 8-bit if ya really want.

[Master_Dragoner]

Yeah, nice story Indelacio.

I just wanted to say, the castle of ordeals isn't the key to class change, it's just a series of trials for dragons (or light warriors, in this case) to prove their bravery.

At the end, the item that they collect is proof of their bravery, and Bahamut then accepts them as true warriors, or something like that.

As well, the item changes form for whoever collects it, so while the light warriors got a rat's tail, other people would have got different items.

After Bahamut saw that the warriors had received the item of bravery, he bestowed upon them more worthy names of warriors, inducing the class change.

PS. One of the dragons hinted there used to be a time where dragons and humans lived in peace. Would this tie in with your Northern Civilisation ideas?