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View Full Version : Heroines always getting the weaker weapons



Imperia
04-17-2003, 07:57 PM
All right, I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but this has been bothering me for a while. I don't know about you guys, but I am sick and tired of the FF heroines always having much weaker weapons than the men. They always either have a bow/crossbow, which is a slow weapon, or a whimpy little rod/stick. The only Final Fantasy that has had swordswomen are FFV and FFVI. I wish women weren't portrayed as nicey-nice weaklings all the time! Shame on all the sexists of the world!:mad2: I wish a heroine could use a sword, or a scythe or a long, great axe. They always give the men the fancy weapons!
Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

chadmonkey
04-17-2003, 08:04 PM
It's because the main hero is always male, except for V and VI, where one could argue that there was no true main charater(although butz is close). Since the main character is what th story evolves around and who you get attached to, that's who they give the really cool big weapon to. I agree that there should be more female leads with bad-ass weapons(there's also beatrix in IX, although she's not really a heroine). It's odd that they haven't done that yet considering it's been "cool" in the last few years to have a female lead or costar in a movie that commands a lot of authority and is a bad-ass. Oh well.

DelightfulSpekkio442
04-17-2003, 08:29 PM
I thought Tifa was a pretty bad-ass fighter. I liked Quistis' whip too. And now in FFX-2, Yuna's got two pistols! How cool is that?

~MJE~

Lexy
04-17-2003, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I never would have remembered Beatrix, but I guess she is a npc after all.
I agree, though; if I were fighting monsters n stuff, I wouldn't want to use a rod, whip, bow n arrow, whatever that stupid thing Rinoa used was, or that kinda stuff....granted, I've never actually had any experience w/ using weapons, but I would want to use a cool sword.
It's just yet another extension of sexist gender roles! EEeehh oh well, they basically put men and women on equal terms, I guess.

Jowy
04-17-2003, 09:02 PM
Let's not forget Freya and her amazingly cool lance.

Kimera 726
04-18-2003, 01:05 AM
X-2 as well. Paine and Rikku with blades, and Yuna with duels. I think the mood about women is changing.

PhoenixAsh
04-18-2003, 01:58 AM
From what I've seen, X-2 seems to have gone a bit too far though. Doesn't anyone think there aren't enough male mages, just to flip the coin.

Pancaek
04-18-2003, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by Phoenix 17
Doesn't anyone think there aren't enough male mages, just to flip the coin.
Yeah, that's probably one of the things that bothers me most about FF nowadays. The only male mages I can think of are Tellah, FuSoYa, Palom, Strago, Vivi and Tidus. Two are little kids, three are old men, and then there's Tidus. =\ I guess they assume that if the men are in any shape at all they can only do melee combat. Nothing wrong with that, but more male mages would be nice.

Kawaii Ryűkishi
04-18-2003, 04:22 AM
I would think that shooting an arrow or bolt into somebody would be faster than tearing through the old flesh and bone with a sword.

Lexy
04-18-2003, 07:58 AM
True...but it doesn't seem nearly as fun...

Kimera 726
04-18-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Lexy
True...but it doesn't seem nearly as fun...

Weak arguement.




You would logically assume that shooting an arrow takes time to prep. Even a person like Legolas needs to pull his arrow from behind, mount it to the bow, and pull the arm back. He doesn't just shoot blind. It takes precision, but it would be accurate.

But in one other sense, if the next final fantasy was to have a female lead, there'd be nothing to complain about anymore about sexist jobs in the FF battle system.

Calvin
04-18-2003, 03:20 PM
What about Agrais from FFT? She was pretty bad-ass.

Psychotic
04-18-2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Skye-chan
Yeah, that's probably one of the things that bothers me most about FF nowadays. The only male mages I can think of are Tellah, FuSoYa, Palom, Strago, Vivi and Tidus. Two are little kids, three are old men, and then there's Tidus. =\ I guess they assume that if the men are in any shape at all they can only do melee combat. Nothing wrong with that, but more male mages would be nice.

Tidus was no mage! he was a little girly wimp who wielded a sword, and the only magic that was on his part of the Sphere grid were things like Slow and Haste/


And Beatrix isn't an NPC - you do get to play as her at one point(And nick her equipment, heh heh)

And what's wrong with a longbow? Without them, Medieval battles such as Agincourt couldn't have been won, and as most pf the weapons in FF are medieval weapons, it's a good weapon to have, so stop whinging!

Also, Maria in FFII could be equipped with a Sword, an Axe or a Spear(As Well as a longbow.

Why do men get better weapons? Well, I am going to have to say it is because men are stronger than women. Yes, there are some exceptions, no doubt about that, but it's why MOST members of the armed forces are male. And of course, reverting back to medieval times, Pretty much every soldier was male, and like I say, the weapons are vaguely similar to the ones used then.

And women in FF get magic, and evil summoning beasts! I mean, there's hardly any male summoners, the only time males can summon them is when there is no permanent job class. Just look at Rydia, Eiko, Garnet and Yuna. Who'd win between someone with a sword and Bahamut with it's MegaFlare? Eeeeeexactly.

Pancaek
04-18-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Psychotic
Tidus was no mage! he was a little girly wimp who wielded a sword, and the only magic that was on his part of the Sphere grid were things like Slow and Haste/
Yeah, I guess the sword doesn't exactly make him a mage, but I always considered him a time mage because he's the only one who knew Haste and Slow. At least we both agree that he's a girly wimp. =)

black orb
04-18-2003, 09:28 PM
>>> On Mystic Quest Kaeli cut down trees and slay monsters with some heavy Axes..

DJZen
04-18-2003, 10:12 PM
OOOOH! WEAPONS TALK!!!! YAY!!!!!

Swords are fairly good weapons, but so are sticks. While swords make clean cuts through flesh, sticks smash bones. There is are many Filipino martial arts based on stick fighting, one of which I study. Look up Magellan, he was killed by a Filipino stick fighter. This is what simple rattan sticks do. If the stick was made out of metal, I dread to think of the damage that could do...

Bows are KINDA slow, in that you have to reload them every time, but I've seen (as in seen with my own eyes in real life) archers shoot bows just as fast as a revolver, and with crazy accuracy. Sure, they make bad melee weapons, but that's why you stay away from the thing you're shooting. From a distance, a bow is FAR more dangerous than any sword, making them slightly more ideal for mages, who'd want to keep their distance anyway so they can have time to cast spells.

So yeah, these aren't bad weapons, and I'd personally prefer a stick to a sword, since swords are only deadly on the blade, while sticks are just plain deadly all over.

Kimera 726
04-18-2003, 11:26 PM
Sticks take several hits to actually sustain fatal damage. Blades can result in death with a single blow if you know how to use it. And what is this deal about women and mages? Something I'm learning about in classes is that throughout history, women in some societies has always been considered an essential player in the maintanance of the family structure. They make the clothing and raise the kids, I know. But some are able to serve in high-level roles by assisting their male partners. And there has been many instances of women in the field: Empress Wu of China, Joan of Arc in France, Marie Curie, etc.

I guess you can't help for some to be traditionalists; but then again its easier to play a game set on those restrictions since its common knowledge. No offense. This has been the theory in the past couple decades but I am seeing changes in women's roles in life and in game and that I'm happy about.

DJZen
04-19-2003, 07:48 AM
okay, I guess you don't think severe head trauma from a blunt object is fatal.... When you watch fantasy movies it's easy to forget a few important things. First off, swords can't easily heck off limbs and such. Sure, they cut through flesh, but bone? You'd need a HEAVY sword to do that. Even then, you wouldn't have an easy time of it.

Another thing that's easy to forget when you've watched Aragorn decapitate his 500th orc is that blunt weapons can indeed do a LOT of damage. Have you ever been hit with a rock or a baseball bat? Yeah, that's what it's like to be hit with a stick. Now imagine that instead of aluminum, that bat is made out of steel.

Psychotic
04-19-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Kimera 726
And there has been many instances of women in the field: Empress Wu of China, Joan of Arc in France, Marie Curie, etc.


I was actually going to state "Yes, I know there were people such as Joan of Arc" but forgot. That is only 3 women, yes there were women on the battlefield, but there were many times more men. MANY MANY times...

And I agree with DJzen - films like LoTR do make wielding weapons look easy - just look at Legolas and how easy he pulls back his bow string in quick succession - it's just... wrong.

Imperia
04-19-2003, 05:39 PM
Yes. Legolas can shoot the arrows very quickly, but I don't see too many female archers in FF going that fast. They go REALLY slow (even though the FF female archers are 16-bit). I don't know, I just don't think women look good with a bow/crossbow. Men look great with them though. Anyway, I greatly prefer a samurai sword or scythe than a bow/crossbow or a rod/stick.

ChibiInuYasha
04-20-2003, 06:43 AM
hmm...why do heroins have weak weapons? So the can protect them ofcourse! :p anyhoo they aren't really weak weapons IMO its just the character who is weak...Even though in X-2 all 3 girls have pretty strong weapons, I think it's because the games message is "Women Power"

the tortured one
04-20-2003, 07:23 AM
i think the whole conceptis based more on the reality of things. Women are physically weaker then men, period. Thats not a sexist statement, thats a fact. Look at the Army PT minimums for men then look at the minimums for women. Yes there are women out there who are physically stronger than most men, but that on a whole is rare. Thats why women are given weapons that required more finesse like bow and arrows and whips and stuff like that. weapons that dont normally require the excessive brute stregnth that most women do not have.

again let me stress. I am not sexist in any way, nor was this intented to be sexist. Its a fact that women tend to be weaker physically than men, but they make up for that with finesse and grace that men do not possess

Psychotic
04-20-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Imperia
Yes. Legolas can shoot the arrows very quickly, but I don't see too many female archers in FF going that fast. They go REALLY slow (even though the FF female archers are 16-bit). I don't know, I just don't think women look good with a bow/crossbow. Men look great with them though. Anyway, I greatly prefer a samurai sword or scythe than a bow/crossbow or a rod/stick.

That was my point - nobody can use a bow that quickly, but let us just remember how many battles were won - like Agincourt say. In that battle, English bow power anhilated the French Knights before they could come close.

Doomgaze
04-21-2003, 07:47 PM
Have you met an elf? Don't say "nobody" when fantasy is involved. ;)

DJZen
04-21-2003, 09:24 PM
Its a fact that women tend to be weaker physically than men, but they make up for that with finesse and grace that men do not possess

Uhhhhhhh...................

Okay, women have less muscle mass to develop than men do, it's not like they're just plain weaker. They also don't inherently posess more grace than men. In fact, most of the women I run into routinely bump into things and fall over randomly. Strength and grace are not bred into you, they're traits that must be developed. Furthermore, there are different kinds of strength. There is lifting strength and explosive strength, both of which have to be developed in different ways.

BatChao
04-22-2003, 03:07 AM
It's just a stereotype, so don't let it get to you. Guys are stupider, and stronger. Therefore they get the big sword/axe and have lower magic power. Girls are the opposite. It's just the way it is. There are exceptions, however. Ayla from CT and Kid from CC are both rockin' characters that kick arse. Ronfar (male) from Lunar 2 was the main party's healer while Jean has extremely powerful and had cool offensive moves. AND she was extremely fast. Tifa from FFVII used her fists, and to me that makes her the strongest of em' all because while the guys need swords/guns, Tifa can just run up and bash em in and do the same amount of damage. I'm sure there are tons more, but it's just the way it is. The main audience for games are adolescent guys, so they wanna be the macho man saving the cute, graceful, smart girl.

edczxcvbnm
04-22-2003, 03:22 AM
Because women are here to have babies!

DJZen
04-22-2003, 06:40 AM
*FALLS OVER LAUGHING*

Yeah, that's why all the chicks in FFV had !make baby.

PhoenixAsh
04-22-2003, 08:57 PM
BatChao I don't think there was a sentence in your post that I agreed with.
I think that discussing women making babies should be left alone before we discover how edczxcvbnm related babies with long range weaponry.

edczxcvbnm
04-22-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix 17
BatChao I don't think there was a sentence in your post that I agreed with.
I think that discussing women making babies should be left alone before we discover how edczxcvbnm related babies with long range weaponry.

Isn't it obvious :rolleyes2

Back in these sexist times the woman stayed home and made babies. TEH END>...or not. They have this huge bulging stomach so they are not going out on the front line like men. They stay at home and just keep shooting the old bow and arrow at a target in the house. That way if she sees someone comeing towards the ol' homestead she can kill them before they get there. Because she is always laying around on the account of 'baby stomach' or BS( :D ). They don't develop the muscles to swing around these huge swords and axes. They have but only the strengh to use a flail and other weakling weapons.

WOMEN MAKE BABIES XD

PhoenixAsh
04-22-2003, 11:42 PM
*is in awe that there was an answer that didn't involve high velocity toddlers*

McNall
04-23-2003, 12:13 AM
Even though FFXI is an MMORPG and you can chose the race and stuff, men and women have an equal value in the game. The Mithra are an only women race (actually the men stay in the town and the women go to fight for some reason, lazy?) and they have great advantages. But this refers back to the point of muscle, the Mithra are very fast but lack a little in attack. The Galka are an only male race (Cloning? Budding?), but they are very slow but strong. But good news for women is that the Female Elvaan can use scyths (spelling?, and other cool lokking weapons, but the jobs are the thing that distinguish weapons not gender (except Mithra and Galka. Good thing that there is not an only male or only female thing (maybe?) for us to bicker about, except like FFt with Dancer and Bard.

Imperia
04-23-2003, 01:01 AM
edczxcvbnm, you make me laugh. I don't know if you're being a troll, but you cannot win against strong women.:D

edczxcvbnm
04-23-2003, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by Imperia
edczxcvbnm, you make me laugh.

Whoa...are you coming on to me :erm:

Sephex
04-23-2003, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by edczxcvbnm
Whoa...are you coming on to me :erm:

She might want to make babies with you.

Mattokenzi
04-23-2003, 01:52 PM
Let the girls have there fun we got too many male heros like Cloud, Squill(not spelt), Zadine and Tidus and now Yuna is gonna be the best heroine... ever

edczxcvbnm
04-23-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Sephex
She might want to make babies with you.

Really? *excitement level...rising* XD

Imperia
04-23-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Sephex
She might want to make babies with you.


Oh, please. With HIM? No way. I'd rather go for a man who is not sexist, and another thing, I don't want children. They're too much of a hassel for me. So just leave me be.

edczxcvbnm
04-24-2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Imperia
Oh, please. With HIM? No way. I'd rather go for a man who is not sexist, and another thing, I don't want children. They're too much of a hassel for me. So just leave me be.

I am no sexist and gave no indication of being one baby ;)

Croyles
04-24-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by edczxcvbnm
I am no sexist

I dont think edczxcvbnm is sexist, it is true that women are mostly weaker than men, not because they were born like that (that was for someones argument who i cant remember the name of now) but because they dont do as much excersice in their whole life as men do, but i for one am an exception, i am male and am pretty weak, and that is because i didnt get enough vitamins and proteins as a little child, i am obviously gonna start working out when i stop growing cause work out causes loss of growth. Therefore i am damn tall, and anyone who messes with me, i can easilly scare them away if i just stand on my tip toes a bit. :D

But i do have to agree that it is unfair that most of the MAIN characters are male and there are hardly any female characters, i think people will back me up on that issue. But women! You will have Yuna (and remember parasite eve 1 and 2? and resident evil 1, 2, 3, 4, and zero where you choose, and Devil may cry 2) and from all the videos i have seen of FFX-2, SHES GONNA KICK SOME ASS!!!!!!! So be happy :):):):)

There are exceptions such as in FFV, and a lot of other games, but Butz was really close on beeing the main character.

I hope people will see it that way and let the sexist discussion come to an end. I do think there should be more female main Heroines so that we can have a change and so that all them lovely ladies will have something to be pleased about in games.

GO YUNA GO YUNA!!!!! ;)

Imperia
04-25-2003, 03:00 AM
All right now edczxcvbnm, you're not sexist. I just thought the second time you were being serious. Online, it's hard for me to indentify which post is a joke and which is serious. I hope there are no hard feelings.:) I'm not overly-serious. I love fun, really.:D
Anyway, like many of you said, Yuna, Rikku, and Paine have got great weapons in FFX-2. I'm glad they're finally breaking some of those out-of-date FF traditions. I can't wait to see all three heroines kick some butt!

Iori
04-25-2003, 05:00 AM
uhhmmm you guys are seriously leaving out a HUGE piece of final fantasy heroinism... Tactics.. this plays a huge role in this conversation... all the female squires at the soldier offices are ALWAYS 100 gil less then the men... making it seem as if the women are worth less than men,.... i consider myself anti-sexist for a few reasons.. i am 16 , and have yet to get some (must be the hair.. hah yeah right). and i think because females "mature faster", give birth, and have crappy weapons, there should be an FF game with only girls in it... althogh FF8 comes close, because Irvine is a pussy, and zells always go those rosie cheeks from being pissed. and need i say anyting about squall? the only reason hes not gay, is because rinoa pimped him out in that dance scinematic near the beginning of the game... and by the way, setting damage aside.. whats worng with a chakram, nanchaku, and a whip.. or a stick.. hey.. this is just me, but a stick usually means i cast spells.. and im more than happy with that... BRING ON THE STICKS!!! take away my shear trigger, and my broadswords, and my fancy axes... a bow, or a stick is my ideal wepaon.. ( oh yes, excuse me.. a *WAND*......dork... lol)

Fighter2knight
04-25-2003, 10:24 PM
Celes, anyone?