R=U (not about bringing it back)

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay I've avoiding bringing this up directly before because this is your forum and you can run it how you like, but the most recent thread annoyed me.

Even though telling people their opinion is wrong results in heavy slating around here, apparently anyone who thinks R=U is reasonable is completely wrong despite no concrete evidence either way.

Now although I disagree with this heavily, this isn't my issue. My issue is the manner in which threads are dealt with. The most recent thread www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34972 makes a very easy to completely disprove arguement, and it was closed without allowing defence, and by announcing the genius of the writer.

Other threads I have seen end on the subject have been ended with similarly (actually more so) closed minded responses.

Now it's fair enough if we're not allowed to discuss it here, but to say our opinions are wrong with no chance to defend ourselves or admitting that we MAY be right evn if you don't think so seems severely against the ethics of this board.

[Flying Mullet]

Well I agree that it should be closed. The thread had a very "flammie" feel too it. Plus it wasn't generating any serious dicussion, only defensive remarks. If a thread doesn't start out maturely, it sure won't stay mature.

[PhoenixAsh]

Oh I think it should have been closed because R=U is banned and that thread wasn't really going to help it's cause with maturity.

My problem is the way in which threads like that are closed. The arguement put forward wasn't given a chance to be put down, it was just closed with support (no these are banned, or an attempt to make the discussion even before closing it). That arguement made no real sense, and it was just praised and closed.

Our opinions have yet to be even remotely proven wrong (honestly), and yet we are told we are so. I don't think that's how this board is meant to work (though I don't know).

Also given the thread was started by someone against R=U, I think closing it by supporting them makes it even more unfair.

[Flying Mullet]

Uness I am mistaken, I think that Gau's comment about a genius was laced with sarcasm.

[PhoenixAsh]

I thought so too, but given people thought the arguement made sense, noone had opposed it, and R=U threads have been closed like that in a serious manner, the post was open to interpretation.

Other threads have been closed like this, I'm not attacking Gau.

[Big Ogre Umaro]

C'mon, you guys have to admit though: Rinoa IS Ultimecia. I mean there's just no two ways about it.

[Citizen Bleys]

R=U threads always turn into flamefests. Always. This looks to me like the complaint you have is that the thread was closed with an argument supporting the position you're opposed to, and you're looking for a shot at arguing back.

That will lead to flaming. Can't let it happen.

[Raistlin]

I don't think Phoenix was specifically talking about the R=U theory, but about all rumors in general. Aren't all rumor threads immediately closed?

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

They are as far as I'm concerned. *bad cop*

[PhoenixAsh]

I am not looking for a chance to argue back (though I do think there should have been one). Neither am I supporting rumour threads, R=U is NOT a rumour, it's a theory and they aren't banned.

Although I have seen R=U threads become flamefests, it doesn't always happen. That's not what I'm talking about though.

I'm saying if we aren't allowed to put forward our opinion, we shouldn't be told our opinions are wrong, and certainly not when it wasn't us raising the issue.

[Raistlin]

Well, that's Phoenix's point. Not ALL rumor threads are bad, pointless spam. Many can bring about serious discussion about different perspectives and interpretations of a game.

I agree with Phoenix(if this is indeed the argument) that rumor threads should be closed if they're spammy and useless, not solely because they're rumors and therefor obviously false since everything's already fully known.

[eestlinc]

you could take your existential R=U argument into EoEo where a serious discussion can be had without fear of flaming.

[crono_logical]

No, because it'd be moved to FF8 forum for being in the wrong forum, whereupon it'd then be closed for not being allowed at these forums, because they <I>always</I> turn into flamefests, due to lack of solid evidence on either side and people sticking to thier own opinions too much. At least, they always used to over at these boards.

My personal opinion is people that like to analyse any game this deeply is wasting their time, it's only a game after all :p

[PhoenixAsh]

Actually I thought of suggesting a move to EoEO, but I guessed that would be turned down. They DON'T always turn to flame-fests though.

I could sit and defend R=U threads for ages, but there's not much point as I don't see them being brought back.

My issue is with how they are dealt with, not that they are dealt with (though I also have serious issue with that).

Plenty of theories are discussed here, and R=U is one of the most valid IMO, but it is made to sound like it's been disproven whenever someone closes a thread. I'm only asking that some respect is shown if we're going to be restricted in our freedom to express our opinion.

[Leeza]

The thing is that the thread shouldn't have been started in the first place so it's always going to look like something isn't proven whenever it gets closed.

[eestlinc]

i was joking

[Shlup]

What I'm getting from you, Phoenix, is that you don't want R=U threads to be allowed, but you don't want them closed either. If you want to be able to give an argument in your defnece, we can't really just leave the thread open so that you can argue, espeicially considering that the closing of threads isn't something that requires discussion; a thread is closed because a staff member deems it innapropriate.

If you would like a chance to defned yourself, then PM the person who closed the thread and I'm sure they'll explain why the thread was closed.

[Big Ogre Umaro]

Originally posted by eestlinc
i was joking I know d00der. P17's made me go into a mad lollin' fit.

Also, if there is a, R=U thread that doesn't turn into a flamefest I'll go there in there and make sure that it DOES, you non-R=U-beliving JERKS!

ARE EQUALS YOU FOREVVERRRRRR!!!

[PhoenixAsh]

Why is it funny? I could have said give R=U the same rules as EoEO but that would require work, then I thought of EoEO and didn't mention it. I really see the hilarity there.

FOR THE LAST TIME I am not asking for them to be left open, I am asking saying more respect should be shown in there closing!!!

I DO want them allowed, I'm just not asking for them to be allowed because it won't get anywhere (I really don't know why though).

[Flying Mullet]

Like ShlupQuack said, take it up with Gau if you don't like how he closed it. It's a mod's personal preference as to how they want to deal with the thread.

[PhoenixAsh]

I'm not gonna take it up with Gau because I I've said this isn't about Gau, it's about how they are closed generally.

[Citizen Bleys]

I don't understand. What is it you're actually complaining about minus the fluff? Words like "generally" and "you know how it is" only obfuscate the true issue.

Examples make the finest illustration. I'm not very bright, so you have to make matters very clear.

[eestlinc]

i.e. USE SOCK PUPPETS

[Big Ogre Umaro]

The point of this thread, Bleys, is that RINOA IS ULTIMECIAAAA~!!!!!

[Citizen Bleys]

Dammit, BOU...

[Yamaneko]

I heard you can revive Aerith.

[Citizen Bleys]

I was gonna chainsaw you anyways, Yams.

[PhoenixAsh]

Yamenko that's a rumour not a theory. Don't pretend they're the same.

I don't understand why you don't get it Bleys. We have our freedom to express our opinions taken away, I'm asking that people at least have enough respect not to tell us we're wrong before taking away this freedom.

[eestlinc]

well my Sean=RSL theory always starts a flame war when I post it, and we won't even mention the blaze (!!!) started between Spuuky and Nait over the Sapir-Worf theory.

[Yamaneko]

I'll make a note not to make any more jokes in Feedback. :(

[PhoenixAsh]

Damn straight.

[RSL]

Originally posted by eestlinc
well my Sean=RSL theory always starts a flame war when I post it

Okay, I'll bite. What are you talking about?

[eestlinc]

I'm just making stuff up.

[m4tt]

Originally posted by Flying Mullet
Uness I am mistaken, I think that Gau's comment about a genius was laced with sarcasm.

I was actually being serious, because the whole R=U thing is incredibly stupid, and the way he put it was very funny.

[Del Murder]

Originally posted by Yamaneko
I'll make a note not to make any more jokes in Feedback. :(
Yeah, we need to keep this forum 'sacred'.

[eestlinc]

*bans antonicles from feedback forum*

[PhoenixAsh]

Gau quote:

I was actually being serious, because the whole R=U thing is incredibly stupid, and the way he put it was very funny.



This is exactly my point. It's never been shown that R=U is stupid, it's just that some people say it is. I personally think the idea that Sephiroth was the main bad guy in VII is very stupid, but I certainly can't prove it, neither do I claim to.

The way he put it wasn't really funny other than his logic made no sense without making huge assumption about the ending.


I have no problem with the threads being closed whilst the ban is in place, but to do it with such a biased, unfounded attitude is just plain disrespectful.

[Shlup]

Sorry, we won't try to be funny anymore. :(

[PhoenixAsh]

I'm not saying that and you know it. I'm just saying that putting down a perfectly valid theory and actually mocking it, whilst taking away people's freedom to express themselves doesn't seem very EoFF to me.

[m4tt]

This thread is stupid! :aimmad:

[PhoenixAsh]

I'll assume that was just ironic humour, but if not I'd like to hear some justification of that.

[m4tt]

I'll give you justification! How about my foot in your keister justification! :aimmad:

[eestlinc]

who the hell is Rinoa? Why would R=U? They aren't the same letter. They don't even look alike or sound alike. This all makes no sense to me.

[Ifrit's Bodyguard]

<font color=f43719><font color=f43719>Pheonix, have you seen the people who have been banned for flaming in R=U threads of the top of my head I can think of ....1, maybe 2. None of the sides will ever be able to prove their side to the others satisfaction.

Anyway the real question was my Griever = Ifrit theory from a while back, notice it didn't get banned :)

[Yamaneko]

Originally posted by Phoenix 17
Okay I've avoiding bringing this up directly before because this is your forum and you can run it how you like...
Well there you go. They're running it how they see fit, in the best possible way.

[Big D]

Some topics (like R=U) can get debated back and forth without achieveing anything. Many have been done to death, with no clear results.

Eventually, it turns into a bickering match:

"I'm right and you're not!"

"No, I'm right and you're not!"

There's no point continuing to argue over something which just continues to prove fruitless.

[PhoenixAsh]

I wonder how many times I have to say it before people will notice the point of this thread isnt't about bringing it back.

Unfortunately the prune got the closing statement I was thinking of, so I can't actually give better examples than Gau's, which onloy annoyed me due to context.

Yamenko if it were that simple what would be the point in Feedback Forum?


Oh as a note, from what I remember the people who actually flamed don't go into the Final Fantasy section much nowadays anyway. If your posting things to get yourself banned it's your own fault anyway, it shouldn't be other people's loss.

[Shlup]

If you don't want R=U threads to be allowed to stay open then quit making arguments why they should.

[PhoenixAsh]

I DO want it to stay open, I've said that. It's just not the reason I made this thread.

When people make comments off topic I disagree with I argue them as side notes, it's not the main point of my posts.

[Shlup]

So no but yes but then again maybe but not really. Point taken.

[PhoenixAsh]

Look if you don't understand yes I want R=U open but I'm not talking about that at the moment fine, but don't mock me for it.

[Shlup]

You say you're not talking about it but you're bringing it up fairly often.

[PhoenixAsh]

People keep bringing it up, and noone seems to want to talk about what I started the topic about.

[Del Murder]

People who are no good at making jokes shouldn't even try.

[Shlup]

Originally posted by Phoenix 17
People keep bringing it up, and noone seems to want to talk about what I started the topic about. The issue that you originaly brought up has been adressed: If you have a problem with the comment someone made when closing a thread, then PM that person and take it up with them.

So, since that was the issue you brought up, and no other issues need to be adressed, this can be closed.