About the warn button...

[Mr. Graves]

I reported a post in the World Events forum today to a response that was uncalled for. Nothing was done about it, and in the same thread, it was even stated by a non-staff member that flaming was rampant.

Is there a reason that reporting offensive posts don't get handled?? I'm just curious. This has happened several times in the past when I've used the warn button.

[Dr Unne]

I sent a warning about the same thread.

[Yamaneko]

There are only so many staff members. Probably the best thing to do is have some on your IM buddy list.

[Linus]

Weird. 90% of the warnings I send get dealt with immediately.

[crono_logical]

*shrugs*

I guess I either missed Nait's posts when scanning that thread quickly after getting the mail or it didn't register as a flame to me for one reason or another, and I can't see nor remember what it was originally now to double check over what he said to see if I really did read it properly or understood it a certain way or whatever.


And yes, IM tends to work better quite often (at least for people that IM me), it helps get to the post quicker, that link in the email always either gives me the start or middle of the thread not on a post making it hard to see the exact post causing the problem :p

[eestlinc]

I didn't especially notice any flaming in that thread.

[Mr. Graves]

My main problem was with War Angel's comment about me not having my eyes open to the world. It was put in such a way as to not be seen as a flame, but the smilie In question: :rolleyes: pretty much indicated that what he said wasn't meant to be nice. Nait's post I agreed with for the most part: He was tactfully covering up his flames and coming off as very arrogant at the same time. That was way Nait stated he was going to put him on ignore. The reason for this thread: I used the warn function, and nothing was done. If this continues to occur, why even have that as an option?? Not stating that I don't like using it, I think it's quite necessary. However, if IMing the mods/admins is so much easier, why even have it as an option if nothing productive comes as a result??

[Spatvark]

I read that thread after getting both warnings from Dr Unne and you, Mr. Graves, and I CHOOSE to do nothing. Usually, when i get to the email first, I do, but in this case, I judged it to be unnecessary for me to step in this time. Issue solved.

[PhoenixAsh]

That bit about the smilie in question sounded so serious courtroom style with a cute little smilie it had me in stitches. Good times.

I would have thought that pressing warn about something that was an undertone would be pretty hard for a mod to sort out. I've never used the warn function, the only time I've ever thought it was called for I didn't know about it. But I've seen enough posts from mods advertising (that'll have to do for a word) it that I have faith that it's taken seriously.

But yeah War Angel does stand out in my mind for his attitude so I guess he must be doing something worth looking into. I've never considered him as a flamer though, just stubborn, which is fair enough.

So thats a firm I have faith in everyone's motives, and lets use cute things as evidence whenever possible.

[Mr. Graves]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
That bit about the smilie in question sounded so serious courtroom style with a cute little smilie it had me in stitches. Good times.

I aim to please. :D

[Shlup]

I read it and I thought it was rude, but I wouldn't call it flaming. I think you could've handled it maturely on your own. We're here to squelch heated arguements and serious harassments; we aren't your parents here to put someone on time out every time someone hurts your feelings.

I know that sounds harsh, but I deal with this same issue all day with 4-year-olds.

EDIT: And I wont be reading this thread anymore 'cause I'm leaving for two weeks so feel free to leave me a rude PM if it pleases you. :p

[Mr. Graves]

Okie-dokie, then. *walks away*

[eestlinc]

*flames Schlup*

[PhoenixAsh]

*presses warn button about eestlinc*

[Nait]

Um, was it me? What's happening? Did I do something? Please don't ban me. :(

[Mr. Graves]

No, you didn't do anything. I was just stating that I agreed with you in the thread I was refering to.

[Citizen Bleys]

*warns Shlup's post*

[crono_logical]

Hmm, I'll choose not to do anything about that last reported post :p

[Linus]

**Warns clout for not doing his job.**

[Dr Unne]

I have a problem with people making posts that do nothing but insult other members, add nothing to the current conversation, and seem to be intended to do nothing but purposefully provoke other posters to anger. There are a lot of direct insults being thrown around in the World Events forum.

<i>I think you could've handled it maturely on your own. We're here to squelch heated arguements and serious harassments; we aren't your parents here to put someone on time out every time someone hurts your feelings.</i> --ShlupQuack

So I have permission to mod-whore now, and attempt to discipline people on my own? And if I'm flamed, the official staff answer is "Tough crap, deal with it"? The "4-year-old" method of dealing with arguments is to do what we've been told to do, and use the Warn button, instead of arguing with other members? And the "mature" thing to do is to fight back with arguments until the argument is heated enough that the staff decides to actually get involved in it, or else to stand idly and do nothing by while being flamed for no reason? I'm just trying to get some clarification.

I publicly loathe all of you on staff, you bunch of mentally-diseased hicks, and I plan to place you all on Ignore because I'm tired of your ignorance. No, I don't believe that, but those EXACT phrases have been used in a thread in the World Events forum to refer to myself. Is that kind of thing allowed now? Can I just go in any forum I want and post that kind of thing? Perhaps you could clarify the definition of "flaming" to me, perhaps I don't understand, since the above is not considered "flaming". It would be very beneficial to know when I'm ACTUALLY being flamed, as opposed to when I just THINK I am, since from now on, I apparently have to deal with it myself, instead of involving the staff in my childish complaints.

Seriously, I do understand that just because someone uses the Warn thing, that doesn't mean staff is forced to act. But maybe I'm just a little upset over the apparent apathy being shown. If you've decided that flaming is OK now, maybe just in small amounts or something, I'll deal with it, and I won't complain further. Perhaps the MB is just a big joke now? It seems like a lot of stuff here is just a joke, now. This thread is certainly a joke to most of you. Perhaps my being insulted is also a joke. I'll deal with it, if that's the case.

[Mr. Graves]

I second everything Unne said. :)

Honestly, we're not 4-year olds. And flaming shouldn't be allowed AT ALL! EVEN if it's done out of tact to cleverly cover up the flame.

[Nait]

I'm making a thread petitioning closing WE.

[The Man]

This sort of thing is the reason I stopped coming here with any sort of regularity. Well said, Unne.

[Del Murder]

I thought you left because they wouldn't ban Akumaou?

[The Man]

No, it was a hell of a lot more significant than that. And it was more my having severe issues with the way the forum was run than anything. But let's not get into that, it's a whole can of worms I don't want to open.

[Del Murder]

I guess not. But promise you'll open it soon. I'm bored here.

[Raistlin]

This is where I disagree with you, Unne.

I have to agree with Shlup; staff's not required to hold your hand. People get into arguments all the time. People dislike tons of other people. The best solution? <i>Deal with it.</i> Talk to the person, over PM, AIM, whatever, like a sensible person. If people go whining to staff about every little thing, it'll be like second grade where you run to the teacher when someone calls you a name.

Mod-whoring is something different, but if you have a personal problem with another member, it's best to try to solve it yourself before going to staff.
Mod-whoring is not, "don't double-post." Or "don't flame."

Also, flaming is posting for the sole reason to call someone crude names. I have yet to see a display of overt flaming anytime recently(not since April 1), though I admit I haven't posted much lately.
Most of the "flames" seem to be a snide comment here or there in the midst of a discussion. If you warned someone on that basis, half of the more prominent members at this board would be banned by now.


I publicly loathe all of you on staff, you bunch of mentally-diseased hicks, and I plan to place you all on Ignore because I'm tired of your ignorance.

What exactly would you have an admin do? Say, "no, you can't put staff on ignore"? Or, "no, you can't say you hate staff." Why not?
Yeah, he shouldn't have called them "mentally-diseased hicks," but what was the rest of his/her post? Was that it?

[Citizen Bleys]

Originally posted by Nait
I'm making a thread petitioning closing WE.

Right about now, I'm with you on that one.

[Dr Unne]

I had this really long post typed up, but I don't think it's necessary. Raist, I just think you're completely wrong. Asking everyone to be mature is fair, but the reason I like this place is because it's supposed to be better than fair. Better than average, I guess I mean. But it doesn't matter.

Anyways, you guys have taken action, moving the forum to EoEO, which is a good idea, something I never even thought of. So I'm satisfied, I guess. I aplogize if I've overreacted, but I still care a lot about this place sometimes.

[Raistlin]

If the Staff tries to force everyone to get along, we'll soon have another FFO here.

A forum is only as good as its members. You may have some grand ideal image of how EoFF's supposed to be, but you have to live with the reality of it. I don't think the staff wants to be parents who had to admonish people 24/7 to play nice like little kids. Even you said some maturity is expected here.

[Dr Unne]

If the staff didn't try to force everyone to get along, at least a little, we'd soon have another FFWA here. Or even worse, GameFAQs. Take a look at that, if you want some non-modding freedom. Or mostly any other MB. You just have to find the balance between anarchy and total lack of freedom. I've always viewed running this place as a constant battle. There are millions upon millions of morons out there who would be willing to come here and muck up the place if they were allowed. The staff controls the floodgates.

Parenting the MB 24 hours a day isn't necessary. Sometimes all it takes is showing that there ARE rules, and people will live by them without actually having to enforce the rules. Sometimes just a threat of discipline is enough, and then you don't have to discipline anyone at all. That's mostly what we have here. We have rules, but for the vast majority of people here, they never need to be enforced, either because people abide by them maturely because they agree with the rules, or because they see the people who ARE disciplined, and realize that the staff is willing to do that same to them, and so they do the right thing. The willingness of the staff to enforce the rules is the most important thing.

I do live with the reality of things. This place is as good as I want it to be, for the most part.

[The Man]

I kind of think a balance is necessary, yeah. On the one hand, care too much about the rules and everyone becomes a rules lawyer, and there's nothing even remotely fun about going to a place anymore. People lose their sense of humour, and no one really has a reason to keep coming to post. On the other hand, care too little and you have FFWA.

Generally speaking, I'm more with Unne than WesLY on this one. One very important reason I stopped going here for awhile is that the rules just weren't being enforced consistently anymore. Or at all.

That whole drama with Akuma happened because people were making snide comments about him intended to take the piss out of him, and no one bothered to do anything about it, causing it to snowball into a huge attention fest with Akuma at the center of it where he gained a huge ego because he thought they were actually SINCERE and suddenly started attention whoring himself to hell. Granted, I didn't really handle the situtation that well myself; I put more blame on him than he probably deserved.

Anyway. That's the sort of crap that happens when people have disagreements and the staff don't do anything to sort them out: DRAMA. It's better to do something about something BEFORE it becomes a huge problem. FFWA's an example where no one bothered to do anything for awhile, and suddenly they had a whole host of problems on themselves that no one can even solve because of past history. Just look in their General Chat these days; flaming is rampant, and no one really gives a tr<z>out because giving a tr<z>out just causes more backlash. The staff certainly don't care, and they'll jump down on your throat if you try to make them care. Everyone pretty much hates everyone else there, it's no wonder the place is falling apart.

You guys did a step in the right direction by combining World Events and Eyes on Each Other, in my opinion. Now don't hesitate to continue doing that sort of thing. You're staff for a reason, and how well you do that job is up to you, but when people come to the board and have difficulties, they'll want you to solve their problems. How well or how poorly you do it could, and probably will, make or break how well the board does in the future.

[Raistlin]

Originally posted by Dr Unne
If the staff didn't try to force everyone to get along, at least a little, we'd soon have another FFWA here. Or even worse, GameFAQs.


I'm not saying staff should let everyone have a free reign. From what you said earlier, it sounded like you wanted staff to handle <i>every</i> little incident(no matter how mild) that happened. That's all I was disagreeing with. If that's not what you meant, then I apologize.

[Dr Unne]

I just realize how dumb I sound. *wanders off*

[Peegee]

I have to agree with Unne, and personally, if I were admin I would do some serious Nazi/gestapo type of handling. Flaming people should only be done in jest (eg: my "Spuuky, you jerk :D" responses). Snide comments, ad hominem premises, and prejudicial language should not be allowed, no matter what.

The staff has the freedom to do whatever it feels like. I'm not going to demand that they go about warning people left and right, editing posts and banning those who are still unrully. I know they have lives too, and it's a big job trying to moderate a forum with probably fifty to a hundred active posters.

What I guess I'm getting at is that the 'deal with problems yourself' type of approach to squabbles is the moderators trying to say that if they fixed every tiny problem here, they would go crazy. I know I would...

[Big D]

If anyone is bothered by anything (within reason), the Warn button is but a mouse-click away. All Warn messages will be investigated, and action taken if necessary.

Anyone who deserves bannign will get banned; unfortunately we can't go with just one person's opinion on this. We'd lose members pretty fast if we tried.

EoFF is still far more civil than most other MBs and fora.