Semi Stupid Question *warning spoiler*

[Erdrick Holmes]

I know that Sephiroth is a clone of the real one that died long ago in the game but isn't Cloud also an altered clone of Sephiroth or just an altered form of Zack?

This question has messed with my head sence I beat the whole game a few years ago?

[Zifnab]

Cloud and Zack both had the same Sephiroth/Jenova experiments performed on them, hence why we see them together during the basement flashback scene. The reason Cloud takes on Zack's role is because Jenova (at least presumeable Jenova) took advantage of Cloud's weak mind and the fact he wanted to be in SOLDIER 1st Class like Zack was.

[Erdrick Holmes]

But Cloud (the one that we play as) is a normal Human born by a human mother right? Not a Test tube baby?

[Skogs]

Sephiroth didn't die. He fell into the lifestream at the Nibelheim reactor after lighting Cloud and wound up at the Northern Crater. From there he sent out clones to do his work.

Zack and Cloud were taken prisoner and experimented on, both being injected with Jenova cells. They escape and head to Midgar. Of course, Zach dies and Cloud goes all psycho and there our story begins.

That's pretty much it. Sephiroth clones are just people injected with Jenova cells. Cloud and Zack were the first, methinks.

[Erdrick Holmes]

So the Sephiroth you see on the Shinra Boat is a clone or the real one

Which one of Clouds memories is real, the one he goes on about in disc one or the one that the lifestream displays

[Doomgaze]

On the boat, that's either a projection of Sephiroth or Jenova. There's PAGES on this elsewhere in the forum.

Memories? The ones the lifestream displays, as well as the flashback you get if you go back to the Shinra Mansion in Nibelheim are correct. Cloud's story on disc 1 is more or less accurate, except "Cloud" in that story is actually Zack, and Cloud is one of the grunts along with them. The carsick one, I think.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Not a stupid question at all mind you. Many people are confuddled by this.

The Seph on the boat (and in the Niebelheim Castle, and the one that steals your Black Materia and basicaly the guy you follow up to the Northern Crater) is indeed Jenova's body. It's body (without head) was kept in the Shinra HQ after Sephiroth torched Niebelheim. The real Sephiroth and Jenova's head fell in the Lifestream and ended up in the Northern Crater. There is some discussion as to whether Jenovah controlled Sephiroth or Sephiroth controlled Jenovah, but in the beginning of the game, whoever is in control of the Northern Crater makes all the cells of Jenovah come to the Reunion and looking for the Black Materia. The Jenovah bodies awakes, takes Sephiroth's form and butchers his way to the Northern Crater, all people with Jenovah cells in their bodies, including Cloud, also hear the call, but Cloud doesn't turn into a black cloaked zombie (probably because he escaped before treatment was complete) but Sephiroth could control him at times.

Once you are in the Northern Crater you track down Jenova's headless body and defeat it, getting the Black materia. But you then give it to the Real Sephiroth with Jenova's head.

Well...I think it's like that.

[TheAbominatrix]

As for the memories, most everything Cloud can remember clearly is his own memory, but they've been... tweaked. They're subtlely different, like the scene in Nibelhiem. Those were all Cloud's memories originally, but he mentally changed Zack into himself, and he really believed that. And yes, he was the carsick one and the only one who survived.

His memories of Tifa always needed prompting, remember? She would ask him about something, he wouldnt remember right off, she would give him a hint. Even then, when he did remember, the thoughts werent exactly clear. Tifa spent a lot of time sorting out his memories both normally (she did so subtlely) and in the Lifestream.

After the events in the Lifestream, Cloud's memories are pretty much back to normal, and he's stopped this 'alter-ego' business, so anything after that you can trust. Cloud is the same Cloud that grew up in Nibelhiem, born to his parents and raised there, just a tad messed up for most of the game.

[Erdrick Holmes]

So the Sephiroth that Cloud see's in his past in Niebehlim as he is a SOLDIER was the real Sephiroth but the Sephiroth that you see that kills President Shinra, all of those people, and Aeris is just the NOT real Sephiroth? What about the Sephiroth the heros fight in the northern creator, is that the real one?

[PhoenixAsh]

Bizarro and Safer are a combination of Sephiroth and Jenova. IMO they're mainly Jenova.
The final one on one is debateable. It's either symbolic and it's Cloud shaking Sephiroth's hold on him once and for all in his mind, or it's the real Sephiroth. I think they're the only two plausable options though in theory there are probably several things you could come up with.

[zacks_clone]

:: cough :: points to my user name :: cough ::

Personly,I think it depends on your poin of veiw.the game didnt come out and say clouds a clone of zack.In a sense,he is.He did go phyco,he did lose his memories and took over his friends...Thats what made him a 'clone'.Yet,I relize he is not a TRUE clone.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Don't forget though, Cloud reconstructed his past based on what he SAW of Zack. He never actually got any memories from him. (Proof: When Sephiroth asks him how you become a Soldier 1st class, Cloud is unable to answer. Zack didn't tell him, so he didn't know.) Not a clone, more of an 'imitation' Zack.

[PhoenixAsh]

I really wouldn't recommend using the word clone while discussing this.

Cloud was experimented on using an updated procedure of what made Sephiroth the way he is. Zack was in the same laboratory. They escaped together but Cloud was in a bad condition. Zack didn't make it, and somewhere during his recovery, Cloud's memories of Zack blended with his own.

[BG-57]

*Spoiler* I still find Cloud being able to defeat Sephiroth in the Nibelheim reactor a little implausible. Kind of like a Stormtrooper taking out Darth Vader. ;)

[Erdrick Holmes]

Well heres something to concider
The flashback in disc one was the one that never 100% officially happened, as you can see the one that you see in the Lifestream sequence in disc 2 is the one that officiall happened.

[Zifnab]

There is a spoiler warning in the topic. :rolleyes2

The flashback in disc one was the one that never 100% officially happened, as you can see the one that you see in the Lifestream sequence in disc 2 is the one that officiall happened.
If you ask me the flashback on disk 2 makes even less sense. Infact it's probably aiding the cause for debate, especially the scene where Sephiroth stabs Cloud and yet Cloud somehow seems unaffected by it, and even throws Sephiroth from the edge with his stabbed chest.
Eh, it's quite a messed up yet brilliant plot twist.

[PhoenixAsh]

That scenes been debated a lot in another thread. I take it to mean that Sephiroth isn't as strong as he was made out to be, and it backs up that Jenova was actually pulling the strings after he fell in. I can't actually remember the alternative, thought I'm sure there was one.

[Erdrick Holmes]

Well I just played through and Hojo says that Cloud and the rest of those black cloaked guys are clones opf Sephiroth, but Cloud was the one that Hojo made that was a falure, Zack is just a normal human who Cloud takes his image from, the outfit, the hair, the sword. Even that guy in the pipe in Midgar who has a tattoo of the no.2 on his hand is a clone

[PhoenixAsh]

They get called it, but they aren't actually clones of Sephiroth. They just had a similar procedure performed on them.

I'm fairly sure Cloud's hair was his own before Zack.

[Lehteb]

The reason that Cloud can kill Sephiroth in the 2nd disk clip is the hidden fact that Sephiroth is not superhuman, but just a very strong man, under the control of Jenova, the true villain (dont flame, its true), and Cloud, when he is truely himself (from his birth to the scene 5 years ago, and then after he leaves the lifestream with Tifa in disk 2) is the stronger-willed of the two.

Zack and Cloud are 2 different people, Cloud takes over Zack's identity after Zack is killed (see the flashback in the Shinra mansion basement after the team gets the Highwind) because of his confusion after Hojo's experiments on him (from 5 years before the beginning of the game, which is right after he kills Sephiroth, to about a week before the game) and his fear of being seen as weak.

Sephiroth is usually seen to be the same man 5 years ago and during the game, my personal belief is that he was in the lifestream for those 5 years and eventually encased in a huge chunk oh materia until freed by Cloud under the control of Jenova.

Questions? Comments? I like debating this topic, and I generally agree with FF7 Mythologies, by John Brittenham, which is an excellent article, but I don't even know if it can be found on the internet anymore (FF7 Citidal had it, but it's not up anymore)

[Erdrick Holmes]

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this here, is Cloud a clone of Sephiroth please no offence but can somebody answer this in a yes or no fasion?

[Lehteb]

No, Cloud was not cloned from Sephiroth in the manner of Dolly the Sheep.

Cloud was injected with Jenova's cells, as Sephiroth was, and because Sephiroth was the first to be injected, Hojo called him a 'clone'.

[PhoenixAsh]

Lehteb I recommend the thread called "Sephiroth... major spoilers that might change your view on who is the best villain!!!"

Joel have you watched the flashback with Zack and Cloud escaping? If not watch it.

Simply put:
Sephiroth had Jenova injected into him as a baby (along with other procedures probably).
Cloud and the other survivors of the fire underwent a similar procedure but they were older. They were referred to as clones.

[Erdrick the Hero]

i am not sure if any of you have every experienced rage or an extreme adrenaline rush. when this happens, for some reason, your body can do extrodinatly things. i for one lifed a car off my dad's foot when the jack collasped, if i was to do that right now... no way in hell i coud do that.

this is what i think happened with cloud in the reactor... cuz lifting someone up with a sword, a) that is in you and b) lifting it with the sharp side down... means ya gotta be pretty damn pissed or have a "i dont' care what happens to me" attitude.

cloud is left for dead when zack is shot to death right outside of midger. that is when cloud assumes the role of zack... and zack really doesn't have the same hair as cloud.. it is much longer.

[Calvin]

If you have any questions, I've always found this plot analysis at the gamefaqs website to be very helpful.

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_plot.txt

I'm not sure if all of it is correct, but it definitely will answer some of your questions.