What's wrong with the human body? Square and 'sluttiness'

[Rand Al'Tor]

You know, I've never actually played FFX-2. I haven't finished FFX either, so I won't be doing that for a lil' while yet. Stlll, now and then I've heard reviews of the game here.

The usual verdict: bad?
The usual reason: Rikku and Yuna are dressed like sluts, whores, etc, etc...

Okay... of all the reasons a game may be bad, that seems like a pretty bad one. In fact, IF at least it meshes with the characters (it could signify a change in Yuna's attitude, as I could see the X-1 Yuna wouldn't go dressed in a risque manner, mind you NOT to tell me anything about it) I would say it's a pro... A small one, and DEFINATELY NOT enough to make a good game, but a pro nonetheless.

WHAT?

You heard me... a pro.

Let's be... totally honest with ourselves here. Most of the people here are, if not adult, at least of that age where there is an interest in the opposite sex (or the same sex, orboth) in a more 'physical' way. We enjoy looking at people, and I don't know about the other people, but straight males generally can approve of women that are dressed; for lack of better word, sexy, which involved tight clothing and sparse clothing. I don't know how it is for gay males and females of all sexual prefernces, but I suspect they too LIKE to look at good looking characters, dressed in ways to stimulate the libidos.

Square panders to this. And I ask you. What is wrong with that? It IS wrong to disregard plot, it IS wrong to disregard characterization, it IS wrong to disregard music and zounds of other stuff. But why on earth would it be wrong for Square to ADD something that pleases us? If you say "FF X-2 has a bad plot, thus it is a bad game" that makes sense. A good plot is necessary for a good game. But "FF X-2 has charactes dressed in a titilating garb' then I wonder why having characters wear a non-titilating garb is a requirement for you to enjoy the game.

Oh yeah. The fact that females don't get their part. Well, I think SS has given the females (and gays) some fanservice as well, and you have my word I shall not complain if the next FF-hero will be dressed as 'scandaleously' as female characters. Of all gaming companies though, I think SS has a pretty good track record in giving women what they want. After all, there's plenty of female FF fans, no?


On another note, I wouldn't say this whole thing is a RECENT thing. It becomes more obvious through better graphics, but if you ask me, Square has ALWAYS been pleasing our libido as well as our imagination and thirst for plot and characters as well as technology allowed. Let's check

IX: Females: Granet and Beate: Granet has tight clothing, Beate has cleavage. STill, one can say that this is one of the chasest FF's xconsideirng females.
Males: A lot less sure, Zidane and Talesk (the redhaired guy) show a relative high amount fo flesh, and Kuja is pretty high on the pretty boy scale. (well, he used to be femalein the Japanese version) I heard, so he's a bit of a question mark

VIII: Females: Oka...hands up who was checking for Selphie panty shots now and then... thought so. Rinoa's tight shorts were also pretty attractive. Quistis might be DRESSED conservatively, but she carried a whip.
Males: Not much flesh to see, granted. Squall and Seifer constantly wear gloves. Still, fro what I've heard of some female fans, the VIII characters are usually considered attractive. (Zell and Rajin, the males with the least clothing are lagging behind but hey...) and then I won't even START talking about Laguna.

VII: Females: Breasts. Tifa. I think that's a pretty good argment for the fact that SS has been aiming for our 'lower' instincs as well as the 'higher' ones for a looong time. Yuffie too shows as much leg as Rikku ever did.. Aeris is dressed neatly fo course, but she's supposed to be the nice flower girl.
Males: Sephiroth. Don't even TRY to deny it girls. I've seen too many girls go star eyed over Sephi-sama, and I will be very sceptic if people are gonna tell me that all the citscenes depicting him with that black suit showing off his chest, not to mention the scenes where he isn't wearing much AT ALL, have nothing to do with this.

FFVI: Female: Okay...we don't actually SEE much. But unless I am very much mistaken, Terra and Celes are wearing PRETTY DAMN SKIMPY outfits. Sure, these days, that means pretty little, but in the days of yore, I am willing to bet that people DID like that. Oh...and when Terra becomes an Esper...she's as good as naked. Sure... nobody will... euh... start activities because of that, but it IS pleasant to look at isn't it?
Male: Once again, except Sabin (who isn't the main target for female eyes probably) most people are dressed pretty modestly. Of course, female gaming was even LESS popular in those days then these.

FFV: Two main females, Faris and the princess (way too long since I played that game) and a third one I've barely seen. Technology is yet older, so less chances of good fanservice. Still, most sprites show the curves rather nicely eh? Then there are the 'dancers' that you encounter now and then. Can you imagine the outrageif they'd have Squall make an 'exotic dancer' do a dance for him. (without taking off anything even)
Females: Again, in the old days of yore, females gamers were a rarer sight. Still, if people were a monk, you could see their chest eh?

FFIV: Males: Good gravy we've gone back far. Rydia is modestly clothed when she's a little girl (good thing too) but once she's adult she starts to show cleavage. And Rosa's clothing is pretty much like Celes. White cape with green 'bathing suit' underneath.
Females: Euh... well... I guess they'll have to satisfy themselves with the pretty faces this time.

[PhoenixAsh]

I always thought it was ridiculous when people complained about that. I mean they aren't even dressed slutty, they're fairly over dressed considering Yuna lives on an Island Paradise, and Rikku spends so much time underwater.
I won't give much plot away, but it would have been stupid for Yuna to dress and act in the same way she does in X. By the end of X and the beginning of X-2 she should have been a completely different person, not just changed her clothes once in two years.
I also think it's funny that people decided Square were selling out on the first game in the series that was obviously aimed at people who already played the games.

[Radje]

True, then again i'm a "horny teenaer" so i can't really say anything

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
I always thought it was ridiculous when people complained about that. I mean they aren't even dressed slutty, they're fairly over dressed considering Yuna lives on an Island Paradise, and Rikku spends so much time underwater.
I won't give much plot away, but it would have been stupid for Yuna to dress and act in the same way she does in X. By the end of X and the beginning of X-2 she should have been a completely different person, not just changed her clothes once in two years.
I also think it's funny that people decided Square were selling out on the first game in the series that was obviously aimed at people who already played the games.

Exactly.

I can totally understand if people play the game and decide it sucks. That's fine. But freaking out about a game you havent played because the characters are dressed a certain way? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Hate a game because the storyline, play, battles, whatever suck... but hating a game because of the way characters are dressed is even worse than refusing to play NES games because the graphics suck, as if it had anything to do with the storyline.

[Sefie1999AD]

Great speech. I'd like to add a few things, though. Most of those who think FFX-2 sucks because the girls look too revealing live outside Japan, so they haven't even played the game yet. Instead, they say it sucks because they've seen girls with little clothes in Square's promotional art and other pictures. IMHO, they don't even look that revealing or "slutty" in the game from gameplay video footage and FMVs.

Now for female characters in some of the earlier FFs.

FF4 - There's this girl who strips and dances in Baron Town. There's also a programmer room where Hentai magazines could be found. I don't think anyone complained about those things, really.

FF3j - Shiva first appeared here. She has hardly any clothes. She's always like that in FFs. And I don't see people complaining about Shiva. And the final boss... well, I wouldn't like to spoil too much, but she takes half of the screen and her breasts are showing.

FF2 - Queen Lamia tries to seduce Frionel, the main character, to go to bed with her. I think one of the pirates also wanted to hit on Maria, in a dirty way, and Maria ended up yelling: "Eww, leave me alone!"

[i90east]

In older FF games sluttiness is very modest and is only noticable with focused attention. FFX-2 puts it in your face, forcing you to take notice. If I want to get turned on, I'll utilize different forms of media of which contain REAL PEOPLE. Many people play FF games for the story, the gameplay, the music, and the heart filled characters... that's right, heart filled characters, not lust filled characters. There is a big difference.

Games that hint at such themes in a comical manner are fine, but when it brings this stuff center stage, it just gets to be too much. It just shows what the development team really has on their minds. Because of this, a stupid game is turned out.

[TheAbominatrix]

Do they lack a heart suddenly because they lack clothes? Have Rikku and Yuna become cold, personality lacking characters since X, because they changed clothing?

[i90east]

In real life, yes. In a game, maybe not. What a distortion that would be. It takes a lot to dress slutty, and usually involves cold intentions.

[TheAbominatrix]

In real life, yes? No. Just because someone dresses a certain way does not make them a different person. If I went out right now and put on a halter top that said '4:20, tyme to blaze it up, yo.', a pair of daisy dukes, and started strolling the street, does that make me a pot smoking prostitute? No, I'm still a straight-edge virgin. Yes, many girls who dress slutty are slutty. Many girls who dress in turtle necks and sweatpants are virginal. However, not all are, and clothes do not make a person. Thinking so is very shallow. People are complex and different, not defined by hair, clothes, or labels.

[i90east]

Well obviously. I'm talking in general terms. What makes a person dress a certain way? Usually they dress a certain way to portray who they are or who they want to be.

[TheAbominatrix]

Lets see... the climate, the current fashions, what sorts of activities you'll be doing, your financial status, your religion should it dictate such things, your government should it dictate such things, society, etc... and in the case of Yuna, not wanting to be recognized.

[i90east]

Yes and that's exactly what I said, except I don't understand about the part of Yuna not wanting to be noticed.

[TheAbominatrix]

Um... I didnt see you say that, but okay. Anyway, you'd have to watch 'Another Story' which was included in the FFX International version and can be downloaded in various places. Yuna is now a celebrity, as are all summoners. But of course she's moreso now, because she actually defeated Sin once and for all. People come up to her all the time, asking for advice, Wakka has to keep them at bay quite often. As such, whatever mission she's going on, if she were to go in her original clothes, she'd be harassed constantly. Everyone in Spira knows what she looks like, but a bit of a wardrobe change can keep her from being hounded every five seconds by her fans.

[PhoenixAsh]

Well that kinda shows how little your judging the game on.

[i90east]

Your surroundings and interactions shape who you are, correct?

Work is over, it's time to go home. I'll read the rest of your post later. Peace.

[TheAbominatrix]

Your surroundings shape your clothes. Example: It's hot outside, you dont bundle up in sweatpants. It's cold outside, you dont go out in short-shorts. Yuna's home is tropical. Obviously she isnt going to need a lot of clothes.

[Outsider]

Well, I don't mind about the way a character dresses, as long as it reflects his/her personality...

I remember that in FF6 Terra's clothes was pretty sparce, and Celes was wearing a white cape with something like a bathing suit... If it had beautiful 3d graphics it would be slutty? I don't think so.

Anyway, I think that anyone that says that a game is bad because a character dresses in a naughty way is wrong. There are a lot of better reasons to don't like a game... I'm really worried about a serious lack of creativity in new games, for example...

[Daydrius]

I can't beleive that no one has mentioned Tales of Phantasia...there wasn't any real showing of anything...but some of the convesations were questionable...I still liked the game. I actually thought those convesations were funny.I would get FFX-2 if it weren't for the fact that I want FFXI more. NEVER JUDGE A BOOK BY IT'S COVER. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonnawatch Trigun...more

[black orb]

>>> If the game is fun and have a decent plot, I dont care if all the characters are naked.
Anyway I still like more the old FFs than the new ones.

[i90east]

Your surroundings shape your clothes.

Again, that's exactly what I said, if you put the pieces together. Your surroundings shape who you are, which then shapes how you dress. You know as well as I do that there are other themes here besides Yuna simply wearing less because the weather is hot. Even the magazines recognize this, and have made many jokes about the sex issue and Yuna. Don't try to deny the connection. I've even heard of two guys in a game store talking about buying FFX-2 because Yuna is sexy. The sex appeal is there, and if that's what Square is using to sell games as a primary method, it shows that they're fresh out of good ideas.

Period.

[TheAbominatrix]

I didnt deny any connection. Some people surely buy the game for the appearance of the characters. You havent played this game. You know nothing about the storyline. You have no idea if it's innovative, if there's character growth, etc. So because Square changed clothes on them it means they're out of ideas? Because Square showed some skin? Um... look at Tifa. At Selphie. At all the eyecandy Square has had. And more importantly, look at the other games they're coming out with. Tactics Advace, Crystal... um... the one for Game Cube... if they're so out of ideas that they have to use sex appeal, why arent they using sex appeal in those games?

I never said the sex appeal wasnt there. But I have yet to see how making the main female character sexy makes it a bad game. Especially when you havent played it or heard anything about the storyline. If she was in a fur parka and sweat pants, yet the rest of the game was exactly the same, would it still suck, and would people be in such a tizzy over it?

Sure, sex sells. Square is a company, and profits come first. They always have. They arent out there to pour their souls into these video games (well they may do that, but the main purpose is profit). Yes, some people will buy the game because Yuna is showing skin. Some will buy it because they like FF. And some will forego it all together because they're too busy freaking out like virginal school marms because they see skin.

[Outsider]

You people are making a big deal out of it... Does it matter if they're making money because a character has big and round breasts? I guess it matters only if YOU are the one playing FFX because Yuna dresses in a slutty way (seriously, go buy a porn magazine if that's what you're looking for)

When I play a RPG I'm looking for an immersive storyline, a deep plot, and a full hand of interesting characters, I don't give a damn if one of the female characters is showing a pair of long and nice legs (even though it pleases me to look at it).

I'm way more worried about the money Square made selling games like FF8 or CC, cuz it lacks everything I look for in a RPG, and it means that things are going in the wrong direction.

[Big D]

Just like to add my thoughts on the matter.
A person's circumstacnes do indeed influence their choice of clothing. However, for someone going into combat, skinpy and revealing attire is simply a poor choice. When you're living rough, crashing through the wilderness and getting into scrapes with nasty monsters, sturdy clothng would go a long way toward reducing minor but influential injuries. If you're wearing a bikini top and get whacked on the ribs or elbow, you're going to get bruised, and possibly bleeding. A more substantial shirt or jacket - like Squall's, for instance - would make a huge difference. Speaking of Squall, consider how badly he'd have suffered from Seifer's Fire Cross if he'd been wearing speedos instead of his stronger clothing.

Then, of course, there are particular styles of fighting which require a certain finesse. Tifa, for instance, is a martial artist, and thus needs clothing allowing a certain freedom of movement. Weight is also an issue. So, she's got clothing that's minimal but supportive - braces, after all, aren't generally regarded as aesthetically pleasing, but they are solid and reliable. She also has armoured boots, gloves, and elbow pads protecting those high-risk areas. Yuffie, too, has little clothing, but makes up for it with armour on her left leg and that white sheath over her left arm.
So it is possible to dress in a way that is both skimpy and functional. However, there should always be a suitable reason for it, in my opinion. A swordsman or woman won't last long wearing boxers and a t-shirt, but an agile thief or acrobat isn't going to survive wearing full-body coverings of leather plates.

But then... it seems we're forgetting one of the most important details here:
You can look good wearing lots of clothing. There's no need to show lots of skin in order to be attractive; in my opinion substantial but well-designed clothing is more appeaing than minimal rags.

[Sefie1999AD]

I'd like to remind everyone that FFX-2 uses a Costume Change system. There the characters' clothes change according to the class they're using. Knights wear heavy armor and use big swords. They're on proper combat gear, so you don't have to worry about that, Big D. :) And really, I think every class in FFX-2 has plenty of clothes and none of them - unless there's a Dancer class - are too revealing. Have you seen Yuna as a White Mage? http://seph99files.homestead.com/files/wmyuna.jpg
If this looks slutty to some of you, I think you'll regard girls as sluts way too easily.

[Kindo]

No, the most slutty ones are thief and lady luck. Thief especially, I don't understand. Why do you have to be naked in order to steal? Oh well... whatever. Atleasy you guys have to agree that Rikku's new hairstyle is slutty. Christina Aguilera, anyone?

[Female Ryuichi]

Thief especially, I don't understand. Why do you have to be naked in order to steal? Oh well... whatever
To distract people while you're robbing them :p

[Kindo]

lol, okay got me there... hehe, doubt that's Rikku's reason though. "Tee-hee, ooh I'm so happy. Happy happy joy joy. I think I'll strip down to my buff to distract people I try to steal from."

[Rand Al'Tor]

Hey... Doesn't make it a BAD game does it? Yay for sexy bottoms I say, even if they're not strictly necessary. ...

Big D

yes of course, there's some 'neck to feet clothing' that can be very beautiful. Quistis comes to mind. But that doesn't mean we can't appreciate SOME parts of the human body WITHOUT clothing. (the OTHER parts we save for doujinshis and our...euh...private thoughts) Tastes differ of course, but wouldn't you agree that 'sparsely dressed attractive' doesn't deserve to be spat on, nor does 'not-directly sexy attractive' need to be ignored? Yes, we all appreciate clothing, but we ALSO appreciate the body on it's own (up to a limit. I don't wanna make FF 18+ anymore then you do. What... leave SOMETHING to my fantasy) and there is nothing wrong with Squaresoft appealing to that.

Your other ussue: Yes, of course the FF people could have pickes a LOT better clothing for an assassination mission. But the FF-series have always allowed 'realism' to take a back seat now and then. If the sexy outfit is the impractical one. Well, it's still 'fantasy' ain't it? And it doesnt hurt my suspension of disbelief.

i90east (eventhough you've discussed it with the Abonimatrix. Because of lack of people disagreein, you get my attention as well)


In older FF games sluttiness is very modest and is only noticable with focused attention.

Technology played a big role. If you ask me, a 3D version of Terra would look as 'slutty' as any recent FF-character. And when it comes to content, as I said, it's he OLD Final fantasies that have you dance with strippers, and has women falling for Cyan like leaves (remmeber when you get in the city)


FFX-2 puts it in your face, forcing you to take notice. If I want to get turned on, I'll utilize different forms of media of which contain REAL PEOPLE.

Well I can understand you don't receive any stimulation on that level by fictional characters. Tastes differ. But why should it BOTHER you?

Also, I hope you're not showing contempt for those of us who DO like to see 'carnal' beauty in fictional characters, and even get turned on by them. After all, there's no real pride in knowing that an actual person had to do something unpleasant to get your 'material' compared to knowing an actual person did something PLEASANT for him.


Many people play FF games for the story, the gameplay, the music, and the heart filled characters... that's right, heart filled characters, not lust filled characters. There is a big difference.

There's a LOT of things in people's hearts. Lust is one fo them. Why should we pretend the FF characters have no sex drive (once again, keeping in mind the audience for limits to how far we go) And why should we pretend WE have no sex drive? YES, we play for the story, gameplay, music and characters. I wouldn't advise FF to ANYONE as an erotic pasttime, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed to make an appeal to our sex drive AT ALL.

[Kindo]

Fact still remains that Square stripped down Rikku and gave Yuna the sexy tight-leather look in order to use it as marketing, making it more yum yum...

[Rand Al'Tor]

And that is bad? Yum yum is good!

(bad plot is bad. But a bad plot is not related to presence or absence of yum yum)

[PhoenixAsh]

Do people even remember Rikku's intro FMV? What do you think they were aiming for there?

Yuna looks as different as possible to her original character. Not slutty IMO, skimpy. This makes perfect sense plot-wise.

[TheAbominatrix]

I've yet to see how someone's hairstyle can be slutty, Kindo. Did she shave the word 'slut' into the back under that bandana or something?

[ChibiInuYasha]

Most good points about the changing of the clothes have already been made. But let's think about this. Yuna is a combat girl now, she doesn't stand back and let giant beast fight for her. She's in the action blazing guns among other things. Let's imagine her jumping around shooting her pistols in her kimono. I dont think so. Also note outfits such as mages ARE NOT revealing because they dont require you to use actual hand to hand combat as much. The only "skimpy" outfits are those which require you to be swift and quick. PLUS, she isn't a summoner anymore! Do women walking around dressed like a nun even though they aren't?! Why would she still be wearing her holy garments?

[Kindo]

Maybe we should have a big group hug instead. This debate is... scary. :(

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by Kindo
Maybe we should have a big group hug instead. This debate is... scary. :(

Yeah super. Could you please answer my question about how Rikku's hair is slutty?

[ZeZipster]

HUGE FFX SPOILER...






Originally posted by Rand Al'Tor
You know, I've never actually played FFX-2. I haven't finished FFX either, so I won't be doing that for a lil' while yet. Stlll, now and then I've heard reviews of the game here.

The usual verdict: bad?
The usual reason: Rikku and Yuna are dressed like sluts, whores, etc, etc...

Okay... of all the reasons a game may be bad, that seems like a pretty bad one. In fact, IF at least it meshes with the characters (it could signify a change in Yuna's attitude, as I could see the X-1 Yuna wouldn't go dressed in a risque manner, mind you NOT to tell me anything about it) I would say it's a pro... A small one, and DEFINATELY NOT enough to make a good game, but a pro nonetheless.

WHAT?

You heard me... a pro.

Let's be... totally honest with ourselves here. Most of the people here are, if not adult, at least of that age where there is an interest in the opposite sex (or the same sex, orboth) in a more 'physical' way. We enjoy looking at people, and I don't know about the other people, but straight males generally can approve of women that are dressed; for lack of better word, sexy, which involved tight clothing and sparse clothing. I don't know how it is for gay males and females of all sexual prefernces, but I suspect they too LIKE to look at good looking characters, dressed in ways to stimulate the libidos.

Square panders to this. And I ask you. What is wrong with that?


FFX-2 is made for perverts

It's three chicks going around changing cloths every battle they enter. All males leave your party, instead of any of them being replaced, a chick in full leather joins your party. Ok, if the love of your life died, and I'm talking about THE love of your life would you be more inclined to wear LESS cloths like Yuna did? No. I don't understand why any one who was a true fan of the original FFX would be so willing to accept that they did that. You're talking about buying the game because it's easy on the eyes? Why don't you go out and by a porno?

[PhoenixAsh]

Hahaha, I was wondering when ZeZipster would make an entrance into this thread. I'll ignore the blatantly made up comments and just point out that the game is set two years after X and Yuna may just have had time to recover. I'd also point out that you quoted someone asking you not to drop massive X spoilers before you did so ;).

[ZeZipster]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
Hahaha, I was wondering when ZeZipster would make an entrance into this thread. I'll ignore the blatantly made up comments and just point out that the game is set two years after X and Yuna may just have had time to recover. I'd also point out that you quoted someone asking you not to drop massive X spoilers before you did so ;).

So your blatantly ignoring the fact that all male characters conveniently leave for a female lead to come in? Ignorance is bliss, right? Why should you care that the game your playing is a disgrace to the original and made for perverts?

[Rostum]

I think you just need to get over it ZeZipster. You obviously don't like the way the series is heading.

Square has any right to create a game like FFX-2, and obviously it isn't going to attract everyone, even some hardcore FF'ers. But that doesn't mean they can't try new things.

Is there something wrong with having a female as a lead role in a video game? It sounds to me that, that's what you're saying. Don't judge a book by it's cover, you haven't played this game yet and you're already judging it? Now that is pure ignorance.

I'm not saying this is going to be the best FF game ever, but I'm willing to give it a try without 'dissin' it with harsh comments like "it's too slutty". Either way, you can't change how they have made the game, and you can't change the fact that they are selling it. So move onto another RPG series, because you really don't like the 'new age' FF games.

[Outsider]

I'm a little slow today... What's the problem with a girl leading the group?

[Rostum]

Woops, forget that statement I made... I don't think I was quite with it when I replied to this thread, meaning I miss read alot of things. Anyways, don't worry.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by ZeZipster
HUGE FFX SPOILER...







[quote]
FFX-2 is made for perverts

Hhe...no...I've seen and enjoyed stuff made for perverts, and FF is NOT one of them. I wouldn't advise FF to anyone to get erotically stimulated. A bit of a tease now and then? Sure, both in the old as in the new. But 'for perverts'? Hardly.


It's three chicks going around changing cloths every battle they enter. All males leave your party, instead of any of them being replaced, a chick in full leather joins your party.

Twitch... well, you DID mention spoilers. Anyway, no problem with a mostly female party is there?


Ok, if the love of your life died, and I'm talking about THE love of your life would you be more inclined to wear LESS cloths like Yuna did? No. I don't understand why any one who was a true fan of the original FFX would be so willing to accept that they did that.

Because a TRUE fan appreciates the plot, music and character, regardless what clothes they are wearing at the moment? And people above have given reasons why Yuna would 'downdress'


You're talking about buying the game because it's easy on the eyes? Why don't you go out and by a porno?

Not uniquely because it's easy on the eyes. Mostly because I hope for good plot, music and characters. But eye-candy DOES help, and it would be Victorian to demand a game to purposefully NOT appeal to a certain liking. "If yu want good music, buy a CD" makes about as much sense as what you say now.

Besides, the plot in most porn is utter crap. And I have found that the attractiveness of women increases if they have interesting stories and characters. Just because Final Fantasy is mainly for good plot/characters/music does NOT mean they are not allowed to address our, to be blunt, lusts. Just because while porn is mainly addressed at lust, doesn't mean it's not allowed to introduce plot beyond 'girl doesn't have enough money for pizza'

[ZeZipster]

Originally posted by Outsider
I'm a little slow today... What's the problem with a girl leading the group?

I'm being misunderstood. I'm not against a female-lead I'm against a slutty female lead.

Mojo Pin just pretend that I responded to your reply because most of it was just complaining about me complaining about and that just starts new threads over, over, and over again, read the before stated to get a response to "Is there something wrong with having a female as a lead role in a video game? It sounds to me that, that's what you're saying. Don't judge a book by it's cover, you haven't played this game yet and you're already judging it? Now that is pure ignorance."


Not uniquely because it's easy on the eyes. Mostly because I hope for good plot, music and characters. But eye-candy DOES help, and it would be Victorian to demand a game to purposefully NOT appeal to a certain liking. "If yu want good music, buy a CD" makes about as much sense as what you say now.

I detest the game because it is not to the original standards which Square created, Square NEVER created a sequel and when they did, they crapped out this? Huge disappointment you can only have 2 of the original cast members in your party and they dress in the most stupidest cloths I have ever seen. People say that Yuna dresses like that because of Rikku and I'm thinking who would be stupid enough to take fashion advice from a chick in a scarf and bikini? You also have to remember that through out FFX they never changed cloths once and didn't have a dress-up system. They made this game purely to attract perverts and I won't support that, because I have respect for the original game and I DON'T want them doing this to their other games. This game doesn't resemble a sequel in my opinion it has very few things in common with the original and doesn't even seem to match genres.

[Xander]

It really bugs me how people use the word "slutty" and "sluts" when describing the new-look Yuna and Rikku. Firstly, what is a slut? Well to me it would be somebody who sleeps around a lot, doesnt really care about anyone, doesnt really care about or respect herself.... it's not defined by clothes, as many people have brought up already in this thread.

And whoever made the comment about Christina Aguilera, she isn't a slut anyway she is a talented singer she looks great and makes the most of it.

Rand Al'tor and TheAbominatrix made a lot of good points so I won't repeat them. But to judge people by their clothes is narrowminded, and the stupid thing is that the majority of people who repeatedly slag off the game haven't even played it yet, and have no real reason to slag it off except they have seen a bit of flesh and that automatically makes the game bad. Riiiiight...



I found this comment of Rand Al'tor's particularly good:
"Because a TRUE fan appreciates the plot, music and character, regardless what clothes they are wearing at the moment? "

I think we all agree that plot, music and character are the most important part of the game, after all in the old FF's you could hardly tell what they are wearing, but you didn't care did you? It didn't matter. Now all of a sudden it matters. People are forgetting what else is important and judging by first appearances.

I'm just human, I found Squall completely gorgeous but that wouldnt have made me buy the game, I fancied the pants off Tidus but that's also not the reason why i played FFX. I find people attractive, male or female, I think Yuna and Rikku look great and I certainly wouldn't complain about looking at them in the game, but at the same time that's not why I'm going to buy FFX-2!

I'm going to buy it because I enjoy Final Fantasy and most of all I loved FFX and since it is a sequel it makes sense for me to want to play it. The clothes don't make or change my opinion but I don't have a problem with them.

Maybe more people would have complained about FFVII if the whole game had brilliant graphics showing off Tifa in all her glory.

Anyway I don't mind people saying that FFX-2 is crap if they have good reasons, but Yuna and Rikku's clothes is NOT a good reason it never has been and never will be.

[Kindo]

Having nearly naked chicks in the game makes it more attractive for people. A shame, really.

[Rand Al'Tor]

And why is that a shame if I may ask? If they'll buy it SOLELY for the naked chicks, that could become a problem. ButS quaresoft can make a good (or bad) game WITH nearly naked chicks and a good (or bad) game WITHOUT nearly naked chicks. I LIKE looking at nearly naked chicks while I'm enjoying superb plot, characters, graphics and music.

Let me ask you something Zipper. If FFX-2 had Yuna and Rikku dressed as in FF-x, but had ALL other things (plot, music, characters) remain the same, would you think it a better game?

Oh and your post.


I detest the game because it is not to the original standards which Square created, Square NEVER created a sequel and when they did, they crapped out this?

Eh, just ebcause they never did a sequel before doesn't mean they're not allowed to do it... EVER. Gotta be a first time for everything.


Huge disappointment you can only have 2 of the original cast members in your party

Personally, I LIKE that. Wouldn't make much sens ethat the GREAT HEROES form the first game would all make for a good second game. Yuna (who I've heard now has lost her Summons) could work, and Rikku might still work since she is weak, but I'm all in favour of introcusing new characters in the new game. Keeping the same characters, THAT would show a lack of creativity.


and they dress in the most stupidest cloths I have ever seen. People say that Yuna dresses like that because of Rikku and I'm thinking who would be stupid enough to take fashion advice from a chick in a scarf and bikini?

Look, if we're gonna talk about FF and fashion sense we could be talking for a loooooong time. Kefka Mc Clown? Squall 'beltaholoc' Lionheart? Cloud 'spikey' Strife? Zidane with those freaky thing on his sleeves but without sleeves? Tidus with those....odd, odd pants? Silly clthes seems like a pretty poor reason to dislike a game.


You also have to remember that through out FFX they never changed cloths once and didn't have a dress-up system.

If it's anything like FFV, then it's NOT the first time. And even fi it was, there's a first time for everything.


They made this game purely to attract perverts

Take ir from a pervert. FFX does NOT appeal to my 'pervy' side anymore then any of the other games. And when I buy FFX-2 it won't be to drool over the women. I have PLENTY fo ways to get rid of drool and other bodily fluids. Final Fantasy, I play for the plot, characters, music etc... and while doing that, I like to enjoy some fine views.


. This game doesn't resemble a sequel in my opinion it has very few things in common with the original and doesn't even seem to match genres

The Final Fantasies have ALWAYS differed from each other. That's what makes it GOOD. Heck, seems sometimes you can't win if you're a gaming company. If you're loyal to your original you're just 'rehashing the same old ideas and just want our money' If you DO make innovation and dare to take risks you're 'desecrating the memory of the old classic game whatever and just want our money'

Squaresoft likes to make changes. No two games have been 'the same old' That is what makes them great, and I hope they will continue to do that. I prefer VIII above any other, but i wouldn't want Square to make their next game a FFVIII clone I WOULD like a FFVIII-2, but I wouldn't wan it to be a clone)

[Kindo]

Heck, seems sometimes you can't win if you're a gaming company. If you're loyal to your original you're just 'rehashing the same old ideas and just want our money' If you DO make innovation and dare to take risks you're 'desecrating the memory of the old classic game whatever and just want our money'
Too bad the innovation has to be something as silly as taking off the women's clothes.

[Rand Al'Tor]

If that's the only thing FFX-2 has to offer, there's a problem. But as I haven't played it yet, I'll reserve judgement. For all I know it's the most intriguing, best, tear and laughteriinducing plot they have ever produced.... also showing female beauties in sparse clothing. And I said before and say again, it's NOT the first time Square has done this, they've been doing it for a long time. They're just getting better at it thanks to technology.

You talk as if just because Square put those clothes on them, it means that's the ONLY thing they did. What about the music? The personalities? The plot? When there's discussion about X-2 it always seems to be about the clothes, and never about the things that matter.

[Kindo]

Yeah, it's true. Can't say much about anything but the looks of the characters, and the music. The music is horrible... it's one of the most annoying RPG soundtracks (http://ffhybrid.com/downloads.php) I've ever heard. Did anyone else hear what they did to the poor chocobo tune (http://ffh-media.cjb.net/public/music/F/Final%20Fantasy%20X-2/07%20-%20Chocobo.mp3)? I started to cry when I heard it. Not in a "Aaw, it's so sad... poor Aeris. *Sniff*" kind of way, but in a "What in the name of Letterman's holy chair?!? This is the chocobo tune?!?! *Buhuhuhuhuuuuuu*" kind of way. :)

[PhoenixAsh]

It's late for this now but spoilers ahead (probs worth changing the titleof the thread).


ZeZipster (or possibly Kindo) what would you have wanted? That Yuna not change in two years? That despite not being a summoner, or following the teachings of Yevon anymore she still wears the robes and uses the same weapons? That she decided to go undercover dressed as... herself? Seriously how do you picture it should have been?
Rikku hasn't suddenly become eye-candy either, I'll point back to the original intro FMV of her and leave it at that.

The clothes change system seems a logical progression if you introduce jobs. Weapons changed appearance in the original, as should characters who change their style.

[Kindo]

Yes yes, of course it's alright if she would've changed... but did she really have to put on that reeeaaaaaally tight leather panty-thing (I actually wonder if her buttcheeks' bloodflow is working anymore) and that reeeeeeaaaaaaaaally tight leather-shit thing with windows for her tits? I mean come on... change doesn't automatically need to mean "sexier clothing, cockier attitude".

As for Rikku, yes, her opening FMV was a bit... yum yum. I'm not a fan of things like that. So you mean that that justifies the way she dresses now? Look at her! A damn bikini is all she's wearing. That, and the smallest possible panty thing I possible before having to rate the game 18+.

[Mr. Graves]

There's your answer, Abominatrix. ;) Now your life is complete, yes??

Hey Rand Al'Tor, let's not forget Siren. She's always been the risque one, hasn't she??. Shiva, too, especially in FFs 8 and 10. At any rate, I'll be waiting to play FF10-2 before dismissing it as some fan service peep-show. People judge too much too often, and I, for one, will wait and see what the finished product delivers. Not getting my hope up for the greatest game of the year, but I'm expecting a fun RPG, nonetheless.

[Rostum]

That's what I solely agree with Mr.Graves. People are judging everything just from some tiny detail that can be overlooked to have a good time.

I'm not saying that it's going to be the best FF game in the series, but it's worth a shot to play it.

[eternalshiva]

I think they look great and the only timne they seem a little under dressed is in the thief class ...

[Xander]

Wow I didn't even realise that Yuna was gonna wear as little as Rikku. I admit they almost look naked in that pic lol but my opinion stands to play the game first before I judge it.

You can think what you like about the clothes, love or hate them, but the game is a different matter, and the dress up system sounds interesting and fun to me, I can't wait to see what it's like :D

And anyway lots of girls wear less than Rikku when they are wearing bikinis swimming or at the beach, do you go up to them and call them sluts? Thought not... they live on a hot island! And yeah I think from what I've seen the clothes suit the jobs they have while wearing them.

Maybe it won't be the best FF but that's just the opinion of the player, if you don't like the way the series is changing stick to the old games and just play those.

Personally I like change and I like when Square brings in new things so I think I'm gonna enjoy the game for that reason plus I have no doubt that Square will deliver an enjoyable plot, as they usually do.

[i90east]

If FFX-2 is anything like FFX, it'll be a bad game. The characters in FFX-2 look even worse than they did in FFX. As if the Backstreet Boys and Brittany Spears wasn't bad enough, now we have Lara Croft for a main character in an FF game. If the characters are any indication of how good the game is, it won't be good.

Some of you people may like the look of the characters in these two games. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion as am I. Don't deny that characters play a big role in FF games. It's only fitting that the characters look decent. Even if FFX-2 will be the best FF ever in terms of story, atmosphere, gameplay etc., it will be severely tarnished by the characters. I don't see how it's ignorant to use this kind of reasoning, but think what you want.

Does anyone know if FFX-2 will even have a world map, or will it be "go to the red dot" again?

[TheAbominatrix]

To me, that's like saying "Even if this book is great in terms of story, character growth, and everything that makes a book important, because there's a picture of a scantily clad woman on the front it will severely suck." It sounds idiotic, really.

[PhoenixAsh]

Tomb Raider may have sold on the character, but Lara Croft was strong not slutty. It was still a fantastic game in it's day.

Soul Calibur II has some very revealing outfits, and even slutty ones (well at least one). It is unbelievable.

FFX-2 actually has justification for the outfits, and they aren't even slutty. It's a frickin sequel, it's aimed at FF fans! Why the hell would they sell out with it?
Besides it's only a few of many outfits that are revealing, must every character's entire wardrobe cover them head to toe? That'd be pretty dull and uncreative IMO.

[eternalshiva]

Xander you rock >.<

Some people are taking this way too seriously! Yuna went from meek to gun blazing awesome she kicks arse and has the body to go with it, why not show a little skin? That kimoto was too heavy to pounce around in anyways. A stick? who wants to fight with a stick? If she is to fight her own battles, might as well do it in skin tight clothes! plus SHE'S NOT ACTUALLY REAL. if you don't like the new look, don't buy it. No one is making you. Pesonally I think it was about time FF became a little risque, especially Yuna, living the life of a virgin that's in love with a memory/spirit I think it was about time she got her freak on! >.<

[Outsider]

Originally posted by i90east
Some of you people may like the look of the characters in these two games. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion as am I. Don't deny that characters play a big role in FF games. It's only fitting that the characters look decent. Even if FFX-2 will be the best FF ever in terms of story, atmosphere, gameplay etc., it will be severely tarnished by the characters. I don't see how it's ignorant to use this kind of reasoning, but think what you want

Now I'm lost... I haven't played FFX yet, so I can't say a thing about those characters (but I don't expect too much, since Square doesn't show me a fullhand of great characters since FF6 and Chrono Trigger).

Anyway, if you are saying that those characters sucks because they lack personality, have a poor backgroung, or stupid lines, then you really have good reasons to say that you don't like them... But if you're saying that you hate them because the way they look like than you're being... uh... Stupid.

[Kindo]

Does anyone know if FFX-2 will even have a world map, or will it be "go to the red dot" again
I'm not sure, but you'll have the airship right from the start, so I'm not sure if it'll have any sense of freedom. You're on a Sphere Hunter group, and you're competing against that other group with that slutty leader, and you're doing so by going around doing missions in various places. Yum yum...

[TheAbominatrix]

Does the other group's leader have an outfit just about as revealing as Edea's? Or Beatrix's? Damn those sluts[/sarcasm]

[i90east]

But if you're saying that you hate them because the way they look like than you're being... uh... Stupid.

Can you get your point across without insulting people? Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I'm being stupid. I've played FFX, and I don't like it. My secondary dislike with the game is the characters. Ok?

[PhoenixAsh]

He wasn't calling you stupid for disliking the game he said that hating a game because of a character's look is stupid.
Now that's obviously flamey, but as far as they go it's a pretty sensible one.

The characters did suck in X, but it had nothing to do with their appearance.

[Outsider]

Originally posted by i90east
Can you get your point across without insulting people? Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I'm being stupid. I've played FFX, and I don't like it. My secondary dislike with the game is the characters. Ok?

You misunderstood me, man... I'm not saying YOU are stupid... Maybe the way I said it was wrong...

I wanted to say that not like the way a character looks like is a stupid reason reason to hate the character. It's far from saying that someone is stupid for thinking that way...

BTW, For everything I heard about FFX, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it too... I just think I would have stronger reasons than mere looks. But still, I have to play it before judging it.

[i90east]

Definately. If the game itself was good, I'd care less about how the characters look. But FFX is already a bad game (imo), and I don't see a point behind raising the sex appeal of the characters. If FFX-2 turns out to be a much better game than FFX (which I doubt because it seems to be going along of same lines) then it'll be fine. It just seems like everything is selling out to imagery these days.

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by i90east
If FFX-2 is anything like FFX, it'll be a bad game. The . Even if FFX-2 will be the best FF ever in terms of story, atmosphere, gameplay etc., it will be severely tarnished by the characters.


Definately. If the game itself was good, I'd care less about how the characters look

Isnt that rather contradictory?

[i90east]

I thought FFX's characters were pretty lame. If those same characters with the same personalities exist in FFX-2, then yes that would tarnish the game in my opinion.

[PhoenixAsh]

X-2 looks nothing like X from what I've seen. There's only two from the original cast in your party that I know of. They picked two of the worst characters but that's not the issue.

[lemonation]

The only thing weird about the clothes is the fact that it's Yuna. I know she needs a diguise, but it just doesn't fit her personality. Rikku: it fits how she was in the game. Of course, maybe she had something to do with Yuna's attire. I'd assume they'd hang out, like real cousins would, and Rikku' personality might have rubbed off on Yuna a bit. And Rikku might of helped pick out the outfit. Who freaking knows. The fact is, that's the way things are gonna be, it's too late to change it.
As for the qoute unquote sluttiness, right on. The fact of life is, sluttiness exists. It makes the game realistic. Some people are just slutty. It's a fact of life. That and it probably boosts sales a little. Muahahaha...

[eternalshiva]

Originally posted by lemonation
The only thing weird about the clothes is the fact that it's Yuna. I know she needs a diguise, but it just doesn't fit her personality. Rikku: it fits how she was in the game. Of course, maybe she had something to do with Yuna's attire. I'd assume they'd hang out, like real cousins would, and Rikku' personality might have rubbed off on Yuna a bit. And Rikku might of helped pick out the outfit.

Well, it seems to me that Yuna has taken in her Al-bhed heritage and she dresses like her tribe. She's not a holy summoner anymore so we don't really know what her true personality is like. I am sure that just because she wears some more comfortable clothes to fight in doesn't mean she sleeps with whatever walks on two legs.

What I want to know is how that one strand of hair got so long in the spand of two years >.<

here is the lady luck job class !

[Angel_Reaper]

I dont get whats the big deal. I have friends thats Gothic and some dress slutty looking and I dont look at them and say "yup a slut" and walk away like a snob. People looks at people the way they dress nots whats in their hearts. A slut can be a slut but what is underneath is whats mostly important. I like the outfits on FF series. I would wear them to. If you think that I am a slut cause of what I said.....then your not looking what inside my heart.

[i90east]

It's not a matter of being a slut, but looking like one.

[Angel_Reaper]

You mean if I go out in a skimpy black spand x. Going out on the town. Just having fun with my friends is concider me a slut, Cause I LOOK like one? o_O :( Even though I am not. Considering I am been with only one guy. What a sad world we live in.

[The Man]

Originally posted by i90east
It's not a matter of being a slut, but looking like one. I thought the point people were making throughout this whole thread is that the way characters look should be one of the least important factors in deciding whether or not a game is good. >_>

I agree with pretty much everything Rand and Abominatrix have been saying.

[i90east]

What a sad world we live in.

What's sad is that many girls dress slutty because everyone else does. It's the copy-cat society, and everyone strives be the same and yet claim they're different. I don't get it. Many young people try so hard to look hardcore. They're just fooling themselves, and mature people can see that. When people dress slutty, one thinks "ok, either that person is a slut or a wanna-be slut". In their defense they say "well it's the inside that counts". Well shouldn't the outside be at least some what representative of the inside? This concept applies to Final Fantasy as well, even if I am straying from the original topic of the thread a little bit.

[The Man]

By your logic, people can't wear less clothing simply because they don't like wearing lots of clothing. Or because it's hot outside. Or for any reason except wanting to look like sluts. Which I don't think any of them do. Ever heard of original thought? Some people simply don't like covering their entire bodies. That doesn't make them sluts, and it doesn't make them "wannabe sluts" (what the hell is that sort of thing, anyway? :o)

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by i90east
What's sad is that many girls dress slutty because everyone else does. It's the copy-cat society, and everyone strives be the same and yet claim they're different.

Okay... THERE I agree. But then the problem is not 'skimpy clothing' or 'sluttiness' but just 'doing what everybody else does. But if a person decides that he or she feels best while 'underdressed' you have no right to make a call like that.



I don't get it. Many young people try so hard to look hardcore. They're just fooling themselves, and mature people can see that.

Hmmm... 'mature' people can overestimate their own knowledge sometimes. SOME people dress Goth, hip, slutty, skater, or whatever for 'fitting in' reasons, but some people just like the clothes they wear.


When people dress slutty, one thinks "ok, either that person is a slut or a wanna-be slut". In their defense they say "well it's the inside that counts". Well shouldn't the outside be at least some what representative of the inside?

Skimpy cothing can represent an inside of someone who is content of her/his own body and doesn't mind showing it off, but is no slut nor wants to be one. Or perhaps just feels most comfortable with less clothing.

Then there is the matter of 'slut' As I see it, it can mean two things.

1: woman desperately wanting to have sex to validate herself, considers it a 'status' thing. That is bad, and it happens way too often.

2: Woman interested in sex, not necessarely within a relation, and actively seeking it for her own pleasure. That is NO bad. Come on, Queen Victoria is dead and the 50's have passed. Women have sexual drives just like the rest of it, don't they? And if they dres skimpy to point out that they wanna have sex and attempt to seduce partners with it, what's the problem with that then?


This concept applies to Final Fantasy as well, even if I am straying from the original topic of the thread a little bit.

Nah, because the Final Fantasy characters are also products, made to sell. And they WERE from the beginning. That is why they get interesting characters, and that is also why they get skimpy outfits. For our viewing pleasure. And for most of us, it DOES give pleasure. Not enough on it's own without characters, but still pleasant

[i90east]

There's a difference between dressing slutty and dressing to be comfortable (innocent clothing). Dressing slutty doesn't just mean showing a lot of skin either. I see girls that wear clothing that looks rather uncomfortable, or clothes that arn't suitable for the weather conditions... just to look sexy. They're going out of their way, dressing in ways that arn't suitable at all. There are clothes that make sense, and there are others that don't.


Women have sexual drives just like the rest of it, don't they? And if they dres skimpy to point out that they wanna have sex and attempt to seduce partners with it, what's the problem with that then?

That's exactly what a slut does. Looking around for sex, that's slutty. Girls who are simply looking for a relationship... well, there is a better way. It's called the inner self. Chances are, a guy that wants a girl because of the way she looks wants her for the wrong reason. If the inside is most important, than the outside should take on a lesser priority. It seems like a lot of people mix that up.


Nah, because the Final Fantasy characters are also products, made to sell. And they WERE from the beginning. That is why they get interesting characters, and that is also why they get skimpy outfits. For our viewing pleasure. And for most of us, it DOES give pleasure. Not enough on it's own without characters, but still pleasant

I just wish Square would stick to pretty characters and not make the switch to slutty. Sluttiness in games just makes things seem so fake, like it's nothing more than a sex show. :(

[TheAbominatrix]

Yep, must be a total sex show. In fact, all the quests are just about Yuna, Rikku, and Paine looking for hot sweaty sex. [/sarcasm]

You say that sluttiness doesnt neccesarily mean showing skin. That it's a combination of look and attitude, am I right?

So, by that logic, the girls showing skin shouldnt make them slutty, because their personalities arent. Right? And none of them look at all out of place or uncomfortable in their new outfits. It was shocking at first, but it's no more shocking than when someone gets a new haircut or a dye. You're a bit shocked and then you get over it.

And as for how 'sad' it is as to the way Square dresses their characters... I find it far sadder that people will make such a fuss over it. If it was a book, or a text based adventure, it wouldnt matter. I fit was SNES graphics, it wouldnt matter. But because the graphics are so rich and detailed, it's time to pitch a fit.

If people are going to buy games just for eye candy, they'll buy games like Dead or Alive: Extereme Beach Volleyball, or any of the numerous sexual games on the market. Sex is not the only thing selling X-2 (in fact it seems like a rather small factor, a 'bonus' for those that like such things).

But of course, Square is evil for straying away from their basic formula. Square is terrible for dressing characters as they more or less always have because the graphics are better now.

[eternalshiva]

bah Square-Enix is just experimenting with its fan base. if they see that it doesn't work then I am sure some person who doesn't have its brains in its pants will change the formula again. they've been around for over a decade sheesh, even Disney made their characters a bit "risque" with the Little Mermaid. Who cares. This argument is starting to get pointless.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by i90east
There's a difference between dressing slutty and dressing to be comfortable (innocent clothing). Dressing slutty doesn't just mean showing a lot of skin either. I see girls that wear clothing that looks rather uncomfortable, or clothes that arn't suitable for the weather conditions... just to look sexy. They're going out of their way, dressing in ways that arn't suitable at all. There are clothes that make sense, and there are others that don't.




That's exactly what a slut does. Looking around for sex, that's slutty. Girls who are simply looking for a relationship... well, there is a better way. It's called the inner self. Chances are, a guy that wants a girl because of the way she looks wants her for the wrong reason. If the inside is most important, than the outside should take on a lesser priority. It seems like a lot of people mix that up.

But the problem with the inside is that it is on the INSIDE. As in, not visible on first look, usually. If I have to choose being in a relationship between a so-so looking but wonderful person and a beautiful bitch, I'll take the first option. But when I am faced with a woman whose looks attract me and a woman whose looks don't attract me, and I don't KNOW anything of their personalities, hey, I LIKE beauty.

Then there are facts that women (and men) may want to dress sexy because they LIKE to dress sexy, not because they want to attract people. People can pcik clothing for OTHER reasons then 'looking for sex'

And I would like to mention once again that there is NOTHING wrong with looking for sex and clothing yourself for said purpose, as long as you do it because YOU want to.


[uote] I just wish Square would stick to pretty characters and not make the switch to slutty. Sluttiness in games just makes things seem so fake, like it's nothing more than a sex show. :(

Sex-shows don't have wonderful music, enticing plots, interesting characters, etc. etc. As long as Square keeps THOSE things up, clothing doesn't matter much.

Also, 'switch'? As I have said before, SS has been speaking to the testosteron (and the oustrogen for the ladies) since forever. HELOOO.... Terra became NAKED when she went into Esper mode! If anything the graphics forced Squaresoft to MAKE some limits.

[The Man]

this is true... you certainly wouldn't see naked terra on playstation 2 without eleventy billion people pitching a fit as they're doing now with half-naked women >(

hell... she got through UNCENSORED back in the days when nintendo was trying to remove all references to sex out of their videogames in america... that's pretty impressive imo!

And for anyone who thinks this is anything new for Square, just look at the Japanese form of Goddess in FF6:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ajf83/ff6-goddess.gif

Or the Japanese form of Chadarnook:

http://216.97.98.128/chadarnook-woman.png

Or Barbariccia/Valvalis:

http://216.97.98.128/barbariccia.png


I rest my freaking case.

[i90east]

I rest my freaking case.

Hah! You wish. Let me explain. Gods and goddeses are often depicted as being nude or semi-nude. Just look at art. You see it all the time. Is it anything sexual? No. This applies to Terra as well. Nowhere does the game hint at sexual tendencies for Terra. I mean heck, Terra was in esper mode in front of a bunch of kids. Do you think Square was thinking sex? There's nothing wrong with the human body until it turns into a sex act. I guess your perception is too shallow to see that.


But when I am faced with a woman whose looks attract me and a woman whose looks don't attract me, and I don't KNOW anything of their personalities, hey, I LIKE beauty.

What does sluttiness have to do with beauty?


Then there are facts that women (and men) may want to dress sexy because they LIKE to dress sexy, not because they want to attract people. People can pcik clothing for OTHER reasons then 'looking for sex'

What reasons are those? You make an interesting proposition. I can't imagine why anyone would want to dress sexy if they don't want to attract people. Very interesting.


Sex-shows don't have wonderful music, enticing plots, interesting characters, etc. etc. As long as Square keeps THOSE things up, clothing doesn't matter much.

Square hasn't kept those things up IMO, but if you think so than I'm glad you get enjoyment out of it.

[The Man]

Originally posted by i90east
Hah! You wish. Let me explain. Gods and goddeses are often depicted as being nude or semi-nude. Just look at art. You see it all the time. Is it anything sexual? No. This applies to Terra as well. Nowhere does the game hint at sexual tendencies for Terra. I mean heck, Terra was in esper mode in front of a bunch of kids. Do you think Square was thinking sex? There's nothing wrong with the human body until it turns into a sex act. I guess your perception is too shallow to see that.Hardly. Your entire problem with FFX-2 is that the characters wear very little clothing. Where in the game are they involved in sexual acts at all? As far as we're aware, there's absolutely no sex involved. How can you claim their nudity to be "sexual" then?

Chadarnook isn't a goddess. Neither is Barbariccia. In Barbariccia's case, her near-nudity was certainly a very sexual aspect of the game, especially when you consider her relationship with Cain. I guess you're going to have to start hating FFIV for being slutty now too.

[Outsider]

As far as I remember...

Chadarnook was supposed to be Relm's painting possesed by some evil sirit, I guess... And Relm was paiting Starlet, an Esper. So you can be considered a superior being.

And Valvalis (Barbaricia) was the fiend of air in FF4, she was one of the four fiends of elements, so she could be considered a superior being, too. And I don't remember any relationship with Kain.

[The Man]

That's because the relationship with Kain wasn't mentioned in the US versions of the game. J2e's translation, I believe, is the only one who alludes to it.

You could consider both of them superior beings, I suppose, but FFVI's Critic wears no pants in the Japanese version of the game, and there's a boss in FFV which actually wears less clothing than Goddess. I don't think either of them could be considered "superior beings." And then there's the final boss of FFIII, who looks like the image attached to this post. Does she qualify as a "superior being"? I don't think so.

Besides, the western traditions of allowing gods to be painted nude mean practically zilch to the Japanese, even though they've taken in many aspects of Western culture to their society. The fact is, characters have been practically nude in final fantasy games since practically the start of the series. I don't see what's wrong with the presence of sexuality in FF games.

[TheAbominatrix]

Oh, I'm so sure the images we're 'pornographic'. This argument is getting so ridiculously stupid. i90, you ignore any points anyone makes unless you can contend them, and you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You say skin is sexual, dont you? Early FF characters showed skin, so it has to be sexual, by your definition. As I said before, if they redid VI and had Esper Terra in PS2 graphics, completly naked, would it be sexual? I certainly dont think so, but then again I dont see how X-2 is this massive porno game... I must be missing something here.

Edit: Oh, I guess his post was deleted *shrugs*

[i90east]

Amazing TheAbominatrix. My post is up for 10 seconds, and you see it. I deleted it because one of the images didn't show.

Ok now I'm confused. First you say that FF characters are merely showing a little skin, and then you say "I don't see what's wrong with the presence of sexuality in FF games.", acknowledging the fact that there is a sexual presense. You should get your arguments straight before posting. If you're still in denial, try denying this:

http://www.portaldosgames.com.br/arquivos/ffx2_logo.jpg

The stuff I pulled up on Yuna were so pornographic in nature that I couldn't view it at work (or make this post). Do you think sex everytime you see a nude female? I'm referring to the picture you posted from FF3 now. Have you ever heard of Medusa?

There is nothing sexual in early FF games. Since you know so much about Japanese culture, what do they think gods, goddeses and angels look like? Hmm, this should give you an idea:

http://www.rpgicons.com/images/icons/ff6/bosses/tower.gif

They see gods and goddeses the same way everyone else in the world does, and that is evident throughout the FF series. It amazes me that all this time you thought that Square was thinking of sex every time they put a half nude or full nude figure into an FF game. :laugh: That's classic.

[i90east]

Abominatrix, it is you who is ignoring my points. What have I been saying the last 3 posts now? THAT SHOWING SKIN IS NOT SEXUAL. There, it's kinda hard to avoid bold print now isn't it? Get with the program or don't post anything. Thank you.

Now go back and read what I said.

[Outsider]

I think it's funny how you people say the same stuff to prove opposed points.

1- Yes, there's some sexuality since the early days... But you must remember, that those games are based on ocidental culture, and mythology, and there's some sexuality in it too. And there's some sexuality in our lives, right? (I guess we're all human beings) So I don't see a problem with that. I remember, for example, that grown-up Rydia's clothes were sparce, just like Terra's and Celes'... If those games had some beautiful graphics it would be "slutty"? I don't think so. I know I would still love those characters.

2- I saw a lot of stuff from FFX-2 (like that pic that i90 posted, in a much larger size) and I think it's slutty. I think that is a little too much for a game, but is it THAT important? You're not obligated to play it, anyway. I know it's not going to stop me from playing it, cuz I think that it can be a good game, who knows? Square still has the power to surprise me. I think that it will suck, but for stronger reasons, not because the way a character dresses.


You people are taking it waaaay too serious.

[eternalshiva]

Originally posted by Outsider
You people are taking it waaaay too serious.

Aaaaaaaamen

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by eternalshiva
Aaaaaaaamen

Oh you're one to talk. :p

Hehe.

[eternalshiva]

heh That's VOICES, not general looks >.< I obssess over one thing at a time other wise I could be branded crazy. Err, I mean slightly off balance >.<

[The Man]

Originally posted by i90east
The stuff I pulled up on Yuna were so pornographic in nature that I couldn't view it at work (or make this post). Yes, it's called fan art. I highly doubt any of these truly "pornographic" images were actually official artwork.

You can find some pretty pornographic stuff of Tifa, too. Hell, go to Google with Moderate Safe Search on and do an image search on Tifa. You'll be surprised at what pops up on the first page of results.


Do you think sex everytime you see a nude female? I'm referring to the picture you posted from FF3 now. Have you ever heard of Medusa?You can see tits in that picture. The whole point of this is that nudity in FF games is nothing new. And I fail to see how her being remotely similar to Medusa (I don't see much of a similarity, to be honest) has anything to do with the fact that it's nudity.


There is nothing sexual in early FF games.Yes, obviously when Queen Lamia was attempting to seduce Frionel she wasn't actually attempting to have sex with him, nice one :rolleyes2


It amazes me that all this time you thought that Square was thinking of sex every time they put a half nude or full nude figure into an FF game. Maybe not every time. But practically every time there IS a female enemy in the early FF games, she's portrayed in a saucy position or with little to no clothing on. Sex is hardly ignored in the plotlines of the early FF games either - think of "You licentious howler" from FFVI, for example (which was far more explicit in the Japanese text; and there's plenty more). I also fail to see how, if the early nudity in Squaresoft games can be viewed as non-sexual, then it's possible to see Yuna and Rikku's state of relative undress in anything but the same light. Let's face it, no one would think pure innocent Yuna would dress in such a small amount of clothing, and thus it's the perfect disguise for her.


SHOWING SKIN IS NOT SEXUAL.Except for Rikku and Yuna, eh? Apparently for them it is.

As for the rest of your points... No. Just no. You're repating yourself over and over. Stop it.


Originally posted by Outsider
I think that it will suck, but for stronger reasons, not because the way a character dresses.Then you actually have a valid reason for disliking the game, although you haven't yet stated what those reasons are.

To be honest, I think most of the people who think FFX-2 is slutty are the same people who think Tifa is slutty. She's anything but.

[Sefie1999AD]

Let me ask you a question, i90east. If FFX-2 was a 2D game or even something that was made with 8-Bit graphics, would you consider the characters slutty then?

[i90east]

Let me ask you a question, i90east. If FFX-2 was a 2D game or even something that was made with 8-Bit graphics, would you consider the characters slutty then?

Yep, especially if Square used very graphic pictures to market the game. In FFX-2 that's what sticks out the most. The idea that Square is trying to get across to gamers is "the women in FFX-2 are very sexy so it's worth your while to buy this game". Once they break the ice, it may get worse and worse with every new title. Deathjester, when I speak of images that are pornographic in nature, I'm talking about the official ones from Square. They're so suggestive that they're unappropriate to view in a public environment.


The whole point of this is that nudity in FF games is nothing new.

Thanks for stating the obvious.


Yes, obviously when Queen Lamia was attempting to seduce Frionel she wasn't actually attempting to have sex with him, nice one :rolleyes2

That's subject to interpretation and the imagination.


Sex is hardly ignored in the plotlines of the early FF games either - think of "You licentious howler" from FFVI

That slutty behavior was depicted as being bad. I'm with Cyan on that one.


Let's face it, no one would think pure innocent Yuna would dress in such a small amount of clothing, and thus it's the perfect disguise for her.

Now you're trying to come up with excuses for Square's poor choice of clothing for Yuna. Maybe it's time to admit that it's a little rediculous.


Except for Rikku and Yuna, eh? Apparently for them it is.

As for the rest of your points... No. Just no. You're repating yourself over and over. Stop it.

The only reason I'm repating myself is because obviously you're not getting my points. You keep pushing the same issues that I've already resolved. Perhaps you should stop repating yourself, and take a look at what I'm saying.

My goal here is not to argue endlessly with you Deathjester, but to come to a level of understanding. It doesn't matter to me that you like the sluttiness of FFX-2. I'm just hoping that you'll understand where I'm coming from in a logical perspective, not "what a dork, this guy hates sex! wtf is that!? Man, there are some weird people in this world.". There are places where sexual themes belong, and I don't feel that the FF series is one of those places. Love is perfectly fine. It's great to have characters in love with each other, but any implications of sex should be left to the imagination.

Also understand that people don't have to like the sluttiness of FFX-2 just because you do, just in case you thought that with your reasoning you can convince people to love it.


To be honest, I think most of the people who think FFX-2 is slutty are the same people who think Tifa is slutty. She's anything but.

I don't think Tifa is slutty.

[The Man]

Originally posted by i90east
Deathjester, when I speak of images that are pornographic in nature, I'm talking about the official ones from Square. They're so suggestive that they're unappropriate to view in a public environment.I've seen none of these so-called "official pornographic images" you speak of. Link to them, please. I severely doubt they're official; a lot of fan artists have made their work look quite "official" themselves. Unless you found it on Square's site, I wouldn't trust in it being official at all. There's been so many bs rumours about the game (and FFVII: Advent Children) that have proven to be nothing but a load of crap that I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone tried to pass off nudie pictures as "official."

Also, I fail to see how putting attractive women in less clothing is slutty when the graphics are good and not when the graphics aren't. Unless you're simply biased against realistic graphics, which it appears that you are.


That's subject to interpretation and the imagination.Now you're just being ridiculous. How could it possibly be open to interpretation? She's trying to seduce Frionel; the definition of seduction is to attempt to get someone to engage in sexual activity. That's sex. S E X. I don't see how it could possibly be interepreted in any other manner.


That slutty behavior was depicted as being bad.Hardly; the whole thing was a joke. The game doesn't specify one way or the other whether such things are "good" or "bad," either. Cyan doesn't like it; Sabin thinks he's over-reacting and finds the whole event funny. Gau just stands to the side. I fail to see how the game draws any conclusions one way or the other.


Now you're trying to come up with excuses for Square's poor choice of clothing for Yuna.No. I'm not trying to make excuses. That's the whole reason she dresses up in less clothing. Square themselves have all but said that.


The only reason I'm repating myself is because obviously you're not getting my points.I'm getting your points perfectly, and your reasoning is highly flawed, in my view. You yourself should take a bit of your own advice, since you're automatically dismissing all evidence thrown contrary to your point. I actually had very little of a view one way or the other when I came into this thread, and after reading both sides' arguments with an open mind I have to say I agree far more with Rand's side than with you. If you opened your mind a bit you might find yourself viewing some things a bit differently, and that would hardly be a bad thing, would it?


My goal here is not to argue endlessly with you Deathjester, but to come to a level of understanding. It doesn't matter to me that you like the sluttiness of FFX-2. My whole point is that it's barely any "sluttier" than any of the earlier FF games are, but since you're repeatedly denying all evidence thrown at you, I guess it's impossible to convince you of anything.

You still haven't answered, by the way, why it's sexual for Rikku and Yuna to show skin, but not for anyone else to show skin.

[i90east]

You're missing the mark. Let me help.


I've seen none of these so-called "official pornographic images" you speak of.

I guess you don't understand the meaning of "pornographic in nature". It doesn't nesseccarily mean nudity.


Also, I fail to see how putting attractive women in less clothing is slutty when the graphics are good and not when the graphics aren't.

I never said that graphics had anything to do with it. In fact, I just finished saying that the characters would still be slutty in a 2D game, which would be amplified by the conditions I mentioned above.


I don't see how it could possibly be interepreted in any other manner.

Kids arn't going to interpret it that way are they? Think about it. It's not extremely obvious what the ulterior motives are. This is minor compared to the sluttiness of FFX-2.


I fail to see how the game draws any conclusions one way or the other.

Well then your argument doesn't carry any weight. It's neutral. It only acknowledges the existance of sluttiness.


No. I'm not trying to make excuses. That's the whole reason she dresses up in less clothing. Square themselves have all but said that.

Well if that's really the whole reason, what a pity. They can do better than that. They conveiniently came up with that to make Yuna slutty. It could have been easily avoided, but no... that's what they wanted.


You still haven't answered, by the way, why it's sexual for Rikku and Yuna to show skin, but not for anyone else to show skin.

"What have I been saying the last 3 posts now? THAT SHOWING SKIN IS NOT SEXUAL."

"Gods and goddeses are often depicted as being nude or semi-nude. Just look at art. You see it all the time. Is it anything sexual? No. This applies to Terra as well. Nowhere does the game hint at sexual tendencies for Terra. I mean heck, Terra was in esper mode in front of a bunch of kids. Do you think Square was thinking sex? There's nothing wrong with the human body until it turns into a sex act. I guess your perception is too shallow to see that."

"There's a difference between dressing slutty and dressing to be comfortable (innocent clothing). Dressing slutty doesn't just mean showing a lot of skin either."


If you opened your mind a bit you might find yourself viewing some things a bit differently, and that would hardly be a bad thing, would it?

Ah, it's the ignorance argument. Tell me then, why should I think that the sluttiness of FFX-2 is a good thing? Why should I like the fact that it's Square's #1 marketing tactic? Gee, isn't that a step forward for our society? Shouldn't we all just enjoy sluttiness and find it to be a positive thing? Shouldn't we expose our kids to this stuff? Hmm, gee let's consider these things. Am I being open minded yet?


My whole point is that it's barely any "sluttier" than any of the earlier FF games are, but since you're repeatedly denying all evidence thrown at you, I guess it's impossible to convince you of anything.

What evidence? A couple of slutty sprites in a couple of old FF games? Oh yeah, that makes all FFs just as slutty as FFX-2, complete with big flashy pictures! :laugh:

[The Man]

Originally posted by i90east
I guess you don't understand the meaning of "pornographic in nature". It doesn't nesseccarily mean nudity. pornography
1. Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.
2. The presentation or production of this material.
3. Lurid or sensational material: “Recent novels about the Holocaust have kept Hitler well offstage [so as] to avoid the... pornography of the era” (Morris Dickstein).

Do you honestly believe the primary purpose of FFX-2 is to cause sexual arousal? Because I certainly don't.


I never said that graphics had anything to do with it. In fact, I just finished saying that the characters would still be slutty in a 2D game, which would be amplified by the conditions I mentioned above.Bah, I misread part of your post. Sorry about that.


Kids arn't going to interpret it that way are they? Think about it. It's not extremely obvious what the ulterior motives are. This is minor compared to the sluttiness of FFX-2.Kids are going to understand what it is if they actually understand what sex is and why people have it. Most kids don't understand that, though. And I fail to see, if they aren't able to draw conclusions about Lamia wanting to have sex with Frionel, why they'll think sexual thoughts about the characters in FFX-2. Actually, even if they DO understand what Lamia wants to do with Frionel, it's entirely possible that they won't think anything about the characters of FFX-2, since to find them sexually attractive, you'd have to actually have awakened hormones. You can't tell me that a six-year-old kid actually entertains sexual fantasies about women just because they're not wearing much clothing.


Well then your argument doesn't carry any weight.Actually it does, since you were claiming that the game was vehemently against the woman's actions and I was claiming that it wasn't.


Well if that's really the whole reason, what a pity. They can do better than that.I'm pretty sure it's not the whole reason. Keep in mind that Yuna is also really an Al Bhed, and the Al Bhed don't wear much clothing to start with. By carrying a gun and the like, she's really getting far more in touch with her heritage. To be honest, I hardly see it as far-fetched at all.


"What have I been saying the last 3 posts now? THAT SHOWING SKIN IS NOT SEXUAL."

"There's a difference between dressing slutty and dressing to be comfortable (innocent clothing). Dressing slutty doesn't just mean showing a lot of skin either."Well, if you don't think they're slutty because they're showing skin, then what makes them sluts? The fact that they're not wearing much clothing? That's the same thing as showing skin. If they're not slutty for showing skin in your viewpoint, then why, exactly, are they slutty? I haven't seen you explain that yet.

[Agent Proto]

Originally posted by i90east
Ah, it's the ignorance argument. Tell me then, why should I think that the sluttiness of FFX-2 is a good thing? Why should I like the fact that it's Square's #1 marketing tactic? Gee, isn't that a step forward for our society? Shouldn't we all just enjoy sluttiness and find it to be a positive thing? Shouldn't we expose our kids to this stuff? Hmm, gee let's consider these things. Am I being open minded yet?


What evidence? A couple of slutty sprites in a couple of old FF games? Oh yeah, that makes all FFs just as slutty as FFX-2, complete with big flashy pictures! :laugh:

Hey, does mocking have anything with proving your point? Please stop it. I don't really care if it's helping you prove your point with Deathjester, it's immature.

I'm not really appreciating this 'behavior,' though I'm not blaming you for being like this. Just tone up a bit, and quit the mocking. It's not appropriate as it may create further trouble. Thanks and I hope you'll cooperate. Keep up the good work, but quit the immaturity in your debates. :)

[Garland]

If Square clothed Rikku and Yuna in skimpy outfits for marketing purposes, then kudos to them. Perhaps it is 'slutty' as people have put it. However, don't pretend it's unusual. Let's face it: for as long as women have fought battles in videogames, whether they be fighting games, rpg's or anything else, they've done that fighting with large breasts, and in skimpy thongs. It's the nature of videogames. One shouldn't expect videogame heroines to cloth themselves like Puritan Princess Toadstools.

Square isn't selling out by putting its females in their underpants. It's following the norm. Square's not doing anything different than it has in the past. The first FF heroine was Maria of FF2, and she wore a skimpy bathing suit and showed cleavage when wounded. FF4's two ladies wore the same, as did the ladies in FF6. I don't remember what the girls of FF5 wore. In FF7, Tifa wore a miniskirt (that might as well have been a belt, it was so thin). Yuffie wore just as little. FF9 has Garnet prancing around in a skin tight spandex bodysuit. Rikku in FF10 also dressed scantilly, and Lulu is well known for the sexy nature of her outfit.

In nearly every FF, the females have been dressed sexily. FFX-2 isn't going overboard. It's not even unusual. Sex sells. When you think of the percentage of sexy women in feature roles in videogames in general, it should make you question why FFX-2 is being held to such a different standard. It's denying everything that videogames have been about since the dawn of the 8-bit NES.

[The Man]

Originally posted by Garland
I don't remember what the girls of FF5 wore. They wore a tremendous number of different outfits, most of them somewhat skimpy (if memory serves, Faris' Dancer is particularly skimpy). You missed FF6, in which the characters also didn't really wear much; in Terra's victory stance, it practically looks like she's not wearing a top, and even when she's not prancing for joy she's not really wearing much. Celes is dressed in just as little; she might as well be wearing a bathing suit bikini and shorts for as much as I can see her wearing.

And I agree with you 100%.

[i90east]

However, don't pretend it's unusual.

Square has never used sex as a main point for selling it's games.


Let's face it: for as long as women have fought battles in videogames, whether they be fighting games, rpg's or anything else, they've done that fighting with large breasts, and in skimpy thongs.

Really? Name off some 8 bit and 16 bit games that contain exactly what you described. Women in melee combat need to wear athletic clothing that allows them to move around with a high level of dexterity, which is not slutty at all. You might be mixing that up with female characters that are made out to be slutty, complete with butt shots, excessively large breasts (artificially large) and the like.


One shouldn't expect videogame heroines to cloth themselves like Puritan Princess Toadstools.

I agree, but sex is usually not the motive behind this thinking.


In nearly every FF, the females have been dressed sexily.

This shows how shallow your worldview is. Don't think sex every time you see a female. Man, I'd hate to be a female in this world. Everytime I would dress comfortably, most guys would be thinking sex. Pitiful.


in Terra's victory stance, it practically looks like she's not wearing a top

I couldn't find a picture of her victory sprite. When I get home from work I'll check it out. From what I remember, it's just a graphical coincidence due to the general art and limited graphical capability of the sprites. She's not topless, so having a topless victory dance wouldn't make sense. Obvously that's not what Square meant. If it was more obvious and even intentional, it would have been censored. It's a subtile thing and needs to be interpreted in the way you're seeing it. I have never thought of Terra's victory dance as looking like she's topless. Her arms are large on the victory sprite. Perhaps that's where the confusion is. The point here is, just because it can be interpreted as a topless dance doesn't mean it is.

[ZeZipster]

Square isn't selling out by putting its females in their underpants. It's following the norm.

You can't actually believe that can you? FFX-2 is the most obscene thing Square has EVER come up with. Let's compare the original to the sequel.

FFX

Had 4 male characters, that's 4/7 more than half.
Yuna wears not so exposing cloths.
Yuna uses summoning system.
Through-out entire game, no one changed cloths once.
Game did not have an active battle system.
Had 1 ending.
No missions.

Now, let's look at FFX-2

Has 0 male characters, that's 0/3 - 100% all female party.
Introduces new character, who is female.
Yuna uses guns.
Yuna steals Lara Crofts out-fit and puts Jechts symbol on it
Every time they enter a battle they change cloths.
Has an active battle system
Has multiple endings
Missions.

Quite the transition. So you lose all male characters, Yuna (The widow Yuna, you know the one that lost her true love) decides she needs to show some ass, also that guns are the closest thing to summoning huge beasts, and every time they enter a battle they change outfits. 3 chicks wandering around in skimpy out-fits changing cloths every battle. Yeah Squares just being their normal selves alright. They make crap like that all the time. Wait... No actually they have NEVER made an all girl FF. You people have got to face the facts this game is made for it's sex appeal. If you think there is nothing wrong with that then you obvisoully aren't a fan of Final Fantasy. I feel betrayed by Square and really angry at people who are claiming that they needed a change. Square made good RPGs, it was their forte. The fact of the matter is, if any one didn't like that they could go buy an action game.

[Garland]

This shows how shallow your worldview is. Don't think sex every time you see a female. Man, I'd hate to be a female in this world. Everytime I would dress comfortably, most guys would be thinking sex. Pitiful. - i90east



If you think there is nothing wrong with that then you obvisoully aren't a fan of Final Fantasy. - ZeZipster

Let's attack my argument, not me, please. It was just my oppinion.

EDIT: Got sidetracked and forgot to add my point. Square is in the business of making money. They'll make any game that'll sell. FF7 was a huge departure from FF1-6 because flashy graphics would sell more. FF10 was a huge departure from 7-9 as an experiment to see if various new ideas would sell more. I assume several of them did so (voice acting for one, and a loss of the world map). It's different, but Square found that it made money, so they kept it. Drawing in an even larger audience by making the already sexy females fans have grown accustomed to in prior games the focus of the advertising (it doesn't seem to be the focus of the actual plot) is just smart marketing. The target audience of Final Fantasies in general is the type that would be most interested in such risque character design. As long as the game plays well, I think Square can market the game however it likes. If FF7 were advertised through a bunch of Tifa chest and leg shots, with various quotes taken out of context, it wouldn't have tarnished my impression of the game. I think the same of FFX2.

Square is a business first and foremost. Whether or not FFX2 is unacceptable is a debate held only by the most hardcore fans. The majority of videogame players are attracted to this sort of 'fan service'. That's why it's so popular. Tomb Raider didn't become one of the best selling games because of its gameplay. Square makes a good effort to provide great gameplay and a compelling plot. I don't think there's anything wrong with Square trying to expand its market in the same way most other companies did. It never proclaimed itself of higher moral caliber - the small circle of fans that are at arms over the issue did. They want money. People will buy this game. Maybe not the three or four people that are the backbone of the anti X2 argument here, but thousands of people - perhaps some that would've disregareded the FF name beforehand.

[Outsider]

I still don't understand one thing... Why the hell is this so important? If you think it's slutty, and you don't like it, then don't buy it... You can't change it, so the best you can do is hope that Square loses a good amount of money, so they can get back on track.
I'm pretty sure it will sell enough to make the next FFs get even worse though, but at the very least I still have my good old stuff to play.

But if you are questining each others opinion, then it's a massive waste of time. I think that none of you people have such a weak mind to change your opinion in a single discussion. And you are all saying the same stuff to prove opposite points...

[PhoenixAsh]

ZeZipster:


FFX

Had 4 male characters, that's 4/7 more than half.
Yuna wears not so exposing cloths.
Yuna uses summoning system.
Through-out entire game, no one changed cloths once.
Game did not have an active battle system.
Had 1 ending.
No missions.

Now, let's look at FFX-2

Has 0 male characters, that's 0/3 - 100% all female party.
Introduces new character, who is female.
Yuna uses guns.
Yuna steals Lara Crofts out-fit and puts Jechts symbol on it
Every time they enter a battle they change cloths.
Has an active battle system
Has multiple endings
Missions.

1) Tidus and Auron couldn't have been in the party for obvious reasons. Wakka's absence is also explained. Khimari I don't know about but he hardly counts as male eye-candy.

2) Yuna's clothing style is changed for A LOT of reasons. If she dressed as she did in X it would have made no sense whatsoever.

3) How in the Hell was she gonna use the summoning system again? She is half Al Bhed with limited physical strength, she would naturally use machina.

4) Clothing changes are a fairly logical step as technology advances, most people change clothes occasionally in real life. I haven't played it but it sounds like FFV did the same thing anyway.

5) I haven't got a clue how the gameplay changes are relevant.


i90east:
Is your only problem with X-2 the marketing? If so then it's a fairly bad thing to judge on. Most people who'll buy X-2 will buy it because they played X. ATTRACTive pictures simply ATTRACT attention, which is the whole point, they don't need to do much else because they couldn't fit all the new info onto a picture.


Given I left the arguement a while ago, I'll just say I agree with pretty much everything Deathjester said to jump back in.

[Buffy]

Sorry i dont like it....I hate it...it shows to much...She looks so..Yuk...She used to be beautyful

[Del Murder]

If you don't have a lot more to add to an old discussion, please do not post in it.