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View Full Version : The new Square. Against or For?



ZeZipster
10-08-2003, 08:42 PM
Many debates have gone on over the past Square releases, FF7-2 being one of the latest followed by FF10-2 and FF11 (because it's online). I have been part of the smaller class of people who is against all three. So what is every one else and why?

I'll start off my anti-SquareEnix rantings with FF11, because that's when I started to get annoyed. FF11 as most of you know is the new completely online FF (despite rumours it is not off line in any way) Why would that bother me? Simple, it does not fit in to the series, every FF has been off line. It also cost way to much and has people. It falls out of the Fantasy feel because it has that annoying sense of newbies who unfortunatly like to beg and talk with 3s instead of Es. You also have to deal with many other factors that wouldn't apply to a normal FF.

FF10-2 would be the second thing Square has announced that bugged me. It's a horrible standard for sequels, it drives away from the original, dropped most of the main cast, and went to sex appeal to attract perverts as though they were some hentai fan-artist of the game.

Finally the latest FF7-2, which did exactly what FF10-2, went awaaaaay from the original (and messed up Sephiroth but that doesn't bug me all that much). I had never thought of a movie being a sequel to any FF and it looks like this one may not have been that bad of an idea. Of course people will watch it, it's the sequel to FF7 one of the most popular games of all time. But I'm discontent with it because it's not like it's original.

Flying Mullet
10-08-2003, 08:51 PM
I always thought that Square lost their direction after FFVI. From FFVII on I've been a bit disillusioned with Square. Guess I'm old fashioned.

TheAbominatrix
10-09-2003, 02:17 AM
Well I was a bit disappointed with the way the FF series was going during the PS1 days, but X restored my faith.

But regardless, there's always gonna be someone pissed off at Square. If they stick to the old formulas, then they've run out of ideas and are a boring company. If they try new, innovative branches, they're money hungry corporate dogs out to rob us of our hard earned money. They're damned if they do, and damned if they dont.

eternalshiva
10-09-2003, 10:24 AM
I'm not happy with FFXI but doesn't mean that its going to suck, it just means I'm not going to buy it. FFX I think needed a sequel to it and I think they planned on making the sequel because the ending only hinted and did not give anything away unfortunately. I don't think FFVII warrants a second game but the movie is cool, I can go for that. I think it warrants a remake into PS2 *nods*

Sefie1999AD
10-09-2003, 05:17 PM
Square isn't as conservative as it used to be, and it takes a lot more chances and tries out new things, as can be seen from FFX, FFX-2 and FFXI. I think some of their "experiments" have somewhat failed (I didn't like FFX, FFXI doesn't impress me and I doubt FFX-2 will be anything great, although I will certainly try it out), but Square still delivers us some very good games every now and then. IMHO, games like FF7, FF9 and Kingdom Hearts - and maybe FF8 and Chrono Cross to a smaller degree - indicate that Square can still produce excellent video games that can be enjoyed.

Here's my prediction, although I could be mistaken. At the moment, Square is really trying all the new ideas they can, such as a linear game without world map (FFX), an online game (FFXI), a sequel with a female lead (FFX-2), a joint project with an American cartoon movie company (Kingdom Hearts and KH2 by Square Enix and Disney) etc, and when they've got to know exactly what Square fans and the players want, they'll make FF12 into a game that will be a massive mega-hit that loads of people will like. Overall, they're probably just trying out various things to make sure that Final Fantasy XII will be a great game.

Flying Mullet
10-09-2003, 06:06 PM
I agree, I think that part of the problem is that the video game market is so over-saturated now that Square has to try out new games to see what people want. Ten years ago it was easy to come up with a quality RPG as there were very few out there. Also ideas were still new, and plots, plot twists, quirky characters and the like weren't tired yet. Now there are so many RPG's out there and so many plot elements are old that Square is trying out a slew of new ideas to see what people like the best. And as the video game market is ever-evolving it makes sense that they want to see what people want so they know where to go next.

Outsider
10-09-2003, 08:57 PM
I don't think that Square-enix is wrong... They are a company, and they have to make money. I'm not against it.

If their way to make money is to make games that I don't like (the only one I really like since PSX is FFTactics), then, I'll simply not buy them. It's not a matter of being against or for it... If they release something that I like, then I'll play it. If they don't, I'll just keep playing the old stuff I'm used to.

I guess it's not a Square-enix's problem... There's a serious lack of creativity in the gaming area for some time, that's why I don't have fun playing most of the new games out there.

twobitmage
10-10-2003, 10:50 AM
Im personally sick and tired of all these people saying "old school roxxors new school". I dont care what kind of sentimental feelings you have for your first rpg. I admit my first rpg, while it is my favorite, isnt the BEST rpg of all time.

And to all those people who hate all the new age innovations; you should embrace change, cuz you can either swim with it, or get crushed under the wave thats about to hit. You can try if you want, to fight against the entire world to change things to the way YOU want it, but let me tell ya, its a bajillion times easier to change urself

Flying Mullet
10-10-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by twobitmage
Im personally sick and tired of all these people saying "old school roxxors new school". I dont care what kind of sentimental feelings you have for your first rpg. I admit my first rpg, while it is my favorite, isnt the BEST rpg of all time.
I disagree. FFVI is still my favorite RPG of all time and I consider it the best. Newer RPG's are cool, and I enjoy them, but FFVI still shines through as my favorite after the novelty and the newness of the new RPG wears off. And besides, the best RPG of all time is relative. By your definition that your first RPG is your favorite, I would consider it the best of all time in your eyes. So each person views the best RPG or such through different eyes, and to that extent, their opinions of where Square is heading differ.

And to all those people who hate all the new age innovations; you should embrace change, cuz you can either swim with it, or get crushed under the wave thats about to hit. You can try if you want, to fight against the entire world to change things to the way YOU want it, but let me tell ya, its a bajillion times easier to change urself
Just because the world is changing doesn't mean we have to. I'm not hurting anyone by keeping my SNES and FFII(FFIV), FFIII(FFVI), Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, etc... around. I like colorful 2D sprites. I always have and probably always will. The technological inovations don't bother me, but they don't make me want to play a game as much as colorful games, which the 2D sprites seem to do quite well. People like or dislike the technological inovations for different reasons. There's no problem with them not liking it.

And in closing, better graphics don't necessarily make a game better. They can enhance it, but they can also detract form it if that's where all of the emphasis is placed. FFIV still has one of the best stories of all time in an rpg for me. It's graphics are a bit antiquated today, but it still is a great game. Kingdom Hearts on the other hand, has stellar graphics, but I didn't enjoy playing it much(I only played it for about 5-6 hours). So I don't think that technological innovation promises better games, only creative developers create better games.

Liquid Glass
10-11-2003, 05:18 AM
I'm not sure if I' for SE or against SE, but you guys sure are helping me decide. I will always love FFVII, because like the dude said, it was my first FF, and my favorite now. It took me like a year to beat it when I first got it because I got stuck on Lost Number, then got stuck on other things, but thats what made it great ontop of the awesome storyline and characters. I am with the movie..for now. I just hope it won't be as disappointing as FFTSW. But from what I've seen, it doesn't look like it will be...

Also, since graphics shouldn't matter, I will try my best to embrace FFX-2. Hopefully the story will save it, if possible. I don't know if I'll ever buy FFXI, but I want too, it sounds like a good idea, but after Square is done seeing what people hate and love, If online play makes the cut, they should put it up as a sub-series, or have add ons outside of the main FFs. FFCC is just sort of, well how I see it, another shot at RTB, like in Kingdom Hearts, for the people who didn't get to try KH on the PS2. For now, only time will tell, And I hope the movie doesn't suck and that FFXII will rock the world, like no other Final Fantasy before it.....

twobitmage
10-12-2003, 10:24 PM
I say that its MY favorite but its NOT the best because I UNDERSTAND that its relative. That every single game is good in its own right. Final fantasy 2 is damn good at being final fantasy 2 aint it? Why then, do we compare it to final fantasy 6? hell if I know

Advent Child
10-14-2003, 06:24 AM
I'll reserve judgement until I can play at least one of those 3 games.

EDIT: 2 games and 1 movie.

Garland
10-15-2003, 05:51 AM
It's good that Square is trying new things. How long could the same cookie-cutter RPG format continue? Tweak the battle system slightly, remix the classic themes, create a plot along the standard progression (explore half the world, get the boat, discover the other half, get the airship, reach 'end of world', do side quests, beat game) - Final Fantasy is a lot of things, but untill recently, liberal wasn't one of them. Square knew a good formula and stuck with it to exacting degrees. Heck, after FF7, every male lead to follow has kept the blond hair, blue eyes, and a blade appearance without fail. The leading lady has been a brunette much in the spirit of Tifa. Things weren't changing. I'm glad they are now. Final Fantasy is a whole series of games about incredible world adventures, and ironically, most FF gamers aren't even adventurous enough to accept new things (as pertaining to Final Fantasy).

Radje
10-25-2003, 04:13 PM
Forgetting Squal wasn't blonde but i do understand what you mean.

SomethingBig
10-26-2003, 03:06 AM
After FFX, I lost nearly all faith in Square. You would not believe the smile I had on my face when I opened it for Christmas. You would also not believe the frown I had on my face after 25-40 hours into the game. However, after popping Kingdom Hearts into the PS2, I regained all faith in Square, once more.

By the way, that Advent Children trailer from the TGS won't be in the movie. Chances are that Square-Enix will hear our complaining and change Sephy's appearance.

Sefie1999AD
10-26-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by SomethingBig
After FFX, I lost nearly all faith in Square. You would not believe the smile I had on my face when I opened it for Christmas. You would also not believe the frown I had on my face after 25-40 hours into the game. However, after popping Kingdom Hearts into the PS2, I regained all faith in Square, once more.

Hey, about the same for me, except I didn't get FFX for Christmas. I hope that Square learned something from their mistakes in FFX and do those things better in FFX-2, and that they make KH2 similar to KH.

SomethingBig
11-01-2003, 04:50 PM
The return of the job system looks pretty promising. But, seeing as how FFX also looked promising, I'm sure as heck renting FFX-2, first.

Nait
11-06-2003, 02:05 PM
I can't say I see Square as letting me down - sure, I may not play FFXI, but it is within Square's liberty to do that what it did. Other than that, I can't understand what's all the fuzz about.

Mr. Graves
11-06-2003, 10:00 PM
Companies make good games, and they make games that suck. I'm not going to judge games based on screenshots or whatever other hype I'm presented, but rather I judge by playing them.

Square is going in a different direction, and of course there will be naysayers no matter what direction they go, so I don't think it matters too much.

I'm not a big fan of either The Bouncer or FF10, but games like FF Tactics Advance were awesome and all were recent releases by Square. I guess my point is that I'm neither against nor for, and that I judge games by themselves rather than by company. *shrug*

EDIT: typos.

black orb
11-09-2003, 10:02 AM
>>> The latest FF game I played was FF9, and I liked it.
FF11 looks like a great game but Online games are a problem, what I can say, there are lucky people that can pay for that, good for them..
The only game that disappointed me was FF8, I never played FF10.

Edgar
11-14-2003, 08:12 AM
I really really feel that after FFIX, everything Square did is getting out of hand.

NES had FFI, FF2j, FF3j. They were sort of the 'starting points' for FF series. They introduced job classing, basic RPing, etc.

SNES took FF a step ahead. FF4 was an example of taking storyline RPing into another step. FF5 took job classing further and introduced more classes. FF6 went into mixing, blending and new abilities and I THINK it is the first FF that came up with combining of stat-ful items (relics). If not, it should be before FFVI and still in the SNES or NES category.

Chrono Trigger came (around FF6's time). It was one of the best games Squaresoft (and Enix) produced. Double Teching and triple teching (teamwork) is introduced.
There may be more, but these are the ones I've played and known.

PSX drove FF series into technology. FFVII introduced Materia system (I could vaguely remember it tho). It took 'rivalry' from FF4 one step further. FFVIII featured different weapons from the other FFs. FF8 has nanchakus, whips, katars and of course, gunblades. The previous FFs do not have such selection of weapons. Junctioning is a creative creation but IMO, it sorta frustrated me.

FFIX was an exception. FF9 was created to bring gamers back to the original FFs, where magic is highly utilized, where there were black mages and white mages. FF9 introduced weapon learning system (it bothers me sometimes).

Chorno Cross was a nice squeal to CT. It indroduced that 'insert magic here' thingy which I wasn't really found of. What I liked was the summoning system.

FFtactics brought Job System into another step
Xenogears is a great game no pun needed.

Of course, the I tihnk Squaresoft noticed the degrading of appreciation of Classic FF so they made FFIX and FFA and FFC.

Then PS2 came...and you know the rest. Squaresoft, IMHO, is not an online gaming company. It's not a movie making company. They made money in FF: The Spirits within is because they are selling the name. If they were given the budget to make a huge 72 hour movie, they might succeed but 2 hours? No way!

I am currently waiting for FFXII, and pray that it would be good.

Chrono Chrazy
11-19-2003, 12:30 AM
All I can say is: ZeZipster, I could not agree with you any more.

Until tomorrow, when we get FFXII info, the only Square game appealing to me at all is Sword of Mana. And that's hardly even Square.

FFXI is an MMORPG.. wake up Square! Never, ever do that again.

VII-2... is a movie. It'd better lead to a vidoe game, or maybe be like, a series of movies, because I fear that one hour will be a thrown together "comes back!" story line and a half-hour fight scene between Cloud and Sephiroth, followed by the revival of Aeris.

FFX-2, out of all of those, annoys me the most. No one cares how the FF series is moving, it seems. They're busy mastubating. I hate FFX-2 with all my heart, not only because it's perverted, but because it replaces the wonderous FF themes with .. ugh.. pop... And turns the power of having a great play marathon into.. ugh.. missions.

It's sickening.
Give us FFVI-2!!

EDIT: Crystal Chronicals, too.

Havoc
11-21-2003, 06:38 PM
I haven't enjoyed a Square product since Xenogears in 1998. However, I still commend Square for making quality games, even if they haven't enchanted me in a long while.

I'm currently playing FFX-2, and it's more fun than sin. It totally blew away my prejudices so far.

Edgar
11-21-2003, 08:41 PM
I just hope FFVII-2 wouldn't be such a name-selling-product like FF:SW...

SW make money because IT IS MADE BY SQUARESOFT
SW make money because IT IS A FINAL FANTASY

Name selling =\

chionos
11-22-2003, 08:31 AM
All I'm waiting for is a game that grabs at my emotions like ffvi did. It was the only game that ever took my breath away from the absolute pleasure of playing a game. I don't think ff as been the same since vi, I really don't. Not that I haven't enjoyed the games, but none of the others stay with me the same.

In any case, I like what squarenix's doing. They're not afraid to try out some new things, and that can only lead to a breakthrough, and dammit I want to say more but it's 2.30 and Family Guy's comin on.

ZeZipster
11-22-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by chionos
All I'm waiting for is a game that grabs at my emotions like ffvi did. It was the only game that ever took my breath away from the absolute pleasure of playing a game. I don't think ff as been the same since vi, I really don't. Not that I haven't enjoyed the games, but none of the others stay with me the same.

In any case, I like what squarenix's doing. They're not afraid to try out some new things, and that can only lead to a breakthrough, and dammit I want to say more but it's 2.30 and Family Guy's comin on.

That's one end of the stick... Try looking at the other, they could fall flat on their face and get mocked for years to come. I'm not going to say any thing more, because with the upcoming FF12, I really can't apply any statement to Square with out applying it to FF12, too. So I'll wait untill I have more information and time to gather my thoughts.

NAILBAT
11-30-2003, 04:27 AM
well I have always had my dislikes about the FF series and direction it is going in...but if this leads to a another FF game that gets me excited like FFVI and FFVII did then so be it...but I think square is great in the graphical department,but there storys have lacking....I HATE the new overworld idea though,it has little to no effort to really show off the way spira really is...I still say Xenogears has one of the deepest,and most well writen storylines of all time,I just wish Xenosaga was written just as well...too bad it wasnt

Chrono Chrazy
12-16-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by NAILBAT
I still say Xenogears has one of the deepest,and most well writen storylines of all time,I just wish Xenosaga was written just as well...too bad it wasnt

I still think Xenosaga better than Final Fantasy X.

And 2,000 leagues over the FFX-2 sea.

DJZen
12-18-2003, 07:13 AM
It makes me smile when people talk about "new school square". I look back on the days when I used to get upset about "new school square" only back then I was talking about FF7&8. It makes me laugh relfecting on myself and my own anger. Even when I was "mad" at Square for "selling out" *chuckle* I was still impressed by their games. Threads of Fate, Brave Fencer Musashi, Xenogears, etc. As far as Squenix, their first game was FF Origins. RAWX!!!!

The Man
12-19-2003, 05:40 AM
Actually, Enix's Dragon Warrior was released before Square's Final Fantasy, and long before Final Fantasy Origins, so their first game was not Final Fantasy Origins. In fact, Final Fantasy wasn't even Square's first game; at the time, they actually feared it was to be their last.

TheAbominatrix
12-19-2003, 05:43 AM
But Origins was the first release by SquareEnix as a joint company, correct?

The Man
12-19-2003, 05:45 AM
Ah, if that's what he means, then I suppose it may have been. I'm not sure, actually; I read his post as meaning it was the first game that either Square or Enix made. :o

DJZen
12-22-2003, 08:19 AM
No, I mean Square Enix, the new company made of Squaresoft and Enix. Much in the same way that Voltron is made of the 5 lions. The first game that Squaresoft made was like......... 3D Worldrunner or something equally bad. Not King's Knight though, that came out AFTER FF1. It's as if Square decided they hadn't come close enough to bankruptcy and that edgeplay was the way to go.

Seryn Kai
07-04-2004, 10:47 AM
Personally, I'm very fond of X-2. I think that those outfits are too revealing, as many of the outfits in 10 were, although you could put that down to the Spiran style that Square wanted, although the gullwings outfits really push that excuse. Don't get me wrong, the clothes don't bother me that much, it's just a thought. I felt that the game was rather easy, but I still count it as one of my favourite RPG's cause the story was so good, and cause the free roaming feel of the game was so fun. I also liked the ability to swich about 10 classes in under half a minute, I just which there was more strategy.

Personally, I think that RPG's are going gradually in the wrong direction, they're getting too easy (I haven't a challenge in FF since the PS rerelease of FF4, unless I count those 3 boss fights in FF10 where Aeons were unavailable or rended useless) and the overemphesis on visuals sickens me. Whatever happened to substance. Oh, that's right, it's moved to the GBA, where it will stay untill vanity swalllows up handhelds too. Fortunatly, we're not quite at the point where plot is suffering yet, but I can see it coming. Gameplay is starting to suffer now. As for my GBA reference, I treasure mine as my favourite console EVER. It has become the new centre of fully substancial games *cough*Sword of Mana*cough*, although I may be slipping of the point.

Square are losing their way. Their games are getting easier and flashier, and it's only a matter of time before story suffers too. That aside, here is what my immediate gripe is. FF11. Why, oh why, oh why did Square need to release it as FF11. Why couldn't they release it as FF Online. FF11 doesn't seem like it should be in the regular series. From what I've heard, there's practically no plot like other FF's. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against online RPG's, it's just that one shouldn't be part of the main FF series. It seems as though Square ARE slipping. Is it just me, or is it odd that Square are releasing what is effectively their second sequal (FF12) as part of their main series when their first was clearly named as being a spin off. I've nothing against FF sequals. Something just seems odd. Maybe Square's main series is slipping. There hasn't been a Unique World (Offline) FF in the main series since FF10 (FFTA counts, but that wasn't part of the central series). I can only wait and see. I don't have anything against spin off FF's, I like FFX-2 and FFTA (I've never had a chance to play the original FFT, it was never released in the UK), it's just that I'm worried about the state of the main FF series. What IS going to happen to FF after FF12.

Del Murder
07-04-2004, 07:47 PM
Please do not revive old discussions.