Zanarkand? (SPOILERS)

[TheSpoonyBard]

This may get a bit confusing, so bear with me on this...

The ruined Zanarkand is on Spira, 1,000 years into the future, yeah?

Tidus' Zanarkand is a big city, but there doesn't seem to be anything beyond it. Surely, if the two Zanarkands are the same place, just at different times, the area around it would be the same, ie. Tidus would have lived in Spira. This would mean he would have known about places such as Mt. Gagazet and the Calm Lands, as these are very close by, but he doesn't. Are the two Zanarkands the same place, or is Tidus' Zanarkand on a different planet, completely isolated from anything else?

Here's another thing I thought of. During the Macalania kissing scene Tidus says he and Yuna could fly to his Zanarkand on the airship, but how can he if it's 1,000 years in the past?

Does this also mean that Sin can exist in two time zones at once?

[Cloud_AA]

im not gonna say that i know for sure but IMO they are on the same planet......... in a 1000 years many things can change. there are a couple holes in the storyline that i have noticed too though.

[Radje]

Darkness, when they say things like "We'll fly to your Zanarkand" It's wishful thinking. Neither Wakka or Lulu or anyone else for that matter knows for sure whether Tidus can get back or not.
For the Zanarkand at the start of the game i guess since the Zanarkand was a dream noone would be able to leave it to get to mt Gagazet or the calm lands.

[MJN SEIFER]

HANG ON FOR THIS!!

The Zanarkand that Tidus is from is fake It doesn't really exist.

The Faiths are People who are more on Less asleep and there dreems are real. Aeons are created from those dreams. Fake-Zanarkand was created simally.

The Real Zanarkand Got destroyed 1000 years ago, Sin's doing. Which is what Wakka was talking about The Fake Zanarkand is Later Damaged by Sin and is destroyed but that is at are present time.

The people of Fake-Zanarkand are also Dreams Tidus, Jecht, You name it none of them exist.

Tidus is brought out side his Zanarkand presumably the "Dreams" only know a bout what they see which is why Tidus constantly refers to Zanarkand and not the Planet. (Spira)

[Sefie1999AD]

Originally posted by MJN SEIFER
The Real Zanarkand Got destroyed 1000 years ago, Sin's doing. Which is what Wakka was talking about The Fake Zanarkand is Later Damaged by Sin and is destroyed but that is at are present time.

The real Zanarkand wasn't destroyed because of Sin. I think there was a big war in Zanarkand, where Bevelle's forces were fighting against some other nation, which was using Machina. Zanarkand got destroyed in that war, and after the war (or during the late stages of the war), Sin appeared. People considered Sin to be a punishment for their sins and the use of Machina, so that's why they forbid the use of technology.

[Big D]

Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
The real Zanarkand wasn't destroyed because of Sin. I think there was a big war in Zanarkand, where Bevelle's forces were fighting against some other nation, which was using Machina. Zanarkand got destroyed in that war, and after the war (or during the late stages of the war), Sin appeared. People considered Sin to be a punishment for their sins and the use of Machina, so that's why they forbid the use of technology. You got it. Yu Yevon, ruler of Zanarkand, created Sin from the Fayths of Zanarkand's dead - kind of like the Aeons. Tidus' "Dream Zanarkand" is largely the same. Every time Sin is beaten by the Final Summoning in the real world, I believe it retreats into the Dream World while it recovers. This would explain how Seymour's mother and Jecht got to the real world.

[eternalshiva]

Seymour's mother was from Zanarkand? I must of missed that one. When does she say she's from there? I don't recall it when you pick up Anima ... Is it in the PAL version?

[Big D]

When Seymour shows everyone the Zanarkand recreation, the first time you visit Guadosalam, he describes it thus:

"The great machina city, Zanarkand. She once lived in this metropolis."

Yuna then asks, "She who?" but gets no response.

Seymour's fairly obsessed with his mother, as we're shown in quite a few cut-scenes. I don't see who else he'd have been talking about but her. That could explain why Jyscal might've wanted to marry her - a true inhabitant of Zanarkand, with all kinds of wonderous experiences to tell of. That could be what broke down the barriers of Guado xenophobia... but that part is just my idle speculation.

If you want to see the FMV I mentioned, it's called "Metropolis" at the Sphere Theatre.:)

[eternalshiva]

I thought he meant Yunalesca... Seems more logical to me because she's from Zanarkand and she was the first summoner to defeat the first sin with her husband, the fayth that is detroyed in the chamber below Yunalesca. She's an undead who initiates the summoners into SIN and Seymour wants to be one with Sin to continue the death Spiral in Spira... The usual crazy villan theory. He seems to be aware of Yunalesca's existance



Seymour: Correct, Zanarkand...as it looked one thousand years ago. The great and
wondrous machina city, Zanarkand. She once lived in this metropolis.

Yuna: She, who?

Later, an image of a woman appeared.

Yuna: Lady Yunalesca!

Seymour: She was the first person to defeat Sin and save the world from Sin

source: Jalbrean

[Big D]

I considered that too, but... I thought he'd have mentioned her by name, if that were the case. Every other woman he ever talked about was either Yuna or his mother. Could've been the reason she was able to become a Fayth relatively easily, too - she was much like an Aeon already, after all.
Well, I've only played through FFX once, you've undoubtedly got a better memory for the details than I have. I'd not be too surprised if my guesses are completely off-target. :)

[eternalshiva]

I remember a lot of useless stuff ;)

EDIT well now that I thikn about it... Is it ONLY people from Zanarkand that can become fayths? I remember her saying something like she was replacing the other fayth that was before her and Seymour never forgave her for leaving him for her duty. So she became his first aeon to protect him from the Guados and the humans. She now figures it was a bad idea cause he's evil. But if she IS from Zanarkand then it could explain his twisted sense of Evil but he also makes reference to becoming Lord Zaon, Yunalesca's husband. He wants to be like them and have "their great love" or something to defeat sin.

[TheSpoonyBard]

Is is ONLY people from Zanarkand that can become fayths?

Does this explain why the Bahamut fayth is in the opening sequence with the blitzball fans?

[Big D]

Originally posted by eternalshiva
I remember a lot of useless stuff ;)

EDIT well now that I thikn about it... Is it ONLY people from Zanarkand that can become fayths? I remember her saying something like she was replacing the other fayth that was before her and Seymour never forgave her for leaving him for her duty. So she became his first aeon to protect him from the Guados and the humans. She now figures it was a bad idea cause he's evil. But if she IS from Zanarkand then it could explain his twisted sense of Evil but he also makes reference to becoming Lord Zaon, Yunalesca's husband. He wants to be like them and have "their great love" or something to defeat sin. I thought she said she chose to become a Fayth, so she could give strength and courage to her troubled, isolated son. However, once Seymour gained the power of Anima, he just got more greedy, and his worst attributes became more pronounced.

I think that all of the Fayths are people from Zanarkand; they all mention Zanarkand in some way (except Seymour's mum), and discuss growing tired of the vast eternal dream. I think they were all 'dreaming', as Fayths, for the thousand years since Zanarkand's fall. Their dreams gave life to the 'Old Zanarkand', Tidus' reality; and also to the individual Aeons. This's a power that would've taken a long time to develop; and besides, we know that they're all bound to Yu Yevon in some way - Yevon used the Fayths of Zanarkand to create Sin, and the dream that Tidus was born into was actually a recreation of the Zanarkand that Yevon once ruled. When Yevon was finally defeated, all of the Fayth could finally be sent, too. I think that some of their power comes directly from Yevon, and thus it seems logical that the Fayth are all former Zanarkand residents. This would also explain why everyone in Spira doesn't become a Fayth when they near the end of their lives. That place would be a real mess if everyone could summon Aeons dreamed up by their predecessors.

[eternalshiva]

It's a possibility, I won't argue with that. The Zanarkand that Tidus comes from only exists because of the fayth's dreams? Are they re-dreaming a new version of the destruction of Zanarkand to bring Tidus to Spira? that seems a little excessive. Jecht got there because of a storm right? And since Jecht is the new sin, he went back in time to get his son to help and defeat him if I remember correctly... that's why Auron is there. It's not very clear. There are a few holes in the story I think.

Auron could of gotten there becaus he is an undead and he managed to travel with Sin after he brought Yuna back to Besaid... I guess that would be the most logical thing. So are they even travelling in time or just dream walking the fayths?

[Shayo]

well if Auron was able to teleport between the "dream zanarkand" becuz he was an undead, then wouldn't that make Tidus an undead too? seeing how he also time traveled, and same goes for jecht

[Radje]

Talk to Maechen at the foot of mt Gagazet to get the story. Simple enough. (He'll appear after your beat Yunalesca i think.0

[eternalshiva]

Originally posted by Shayo
well if Auron was able to teleport between the "dream zanarkand" becuz he was an undead, then wouldn't that make Tidus an undead too? seeing how he also time traveled, and same goes for jecht

They are both [Tidus and Jecht] from the world that the Fayths have dreamt so they don't really exist in the first place, this is the plot problem I am talking about... there are alot of things that don't make sense. The original Zanarkand was destroyed by Bevelle and the Zanarkand Tidus comes from, the fayths are dreaming it *Remember the little hooded dude at the start? he's a fayth* SO what is up with that?

[Big D]

There was no actual 'tme travel' involved at all, in any way. Bevelle defeated Zanarkand during their war, in a surprise attack. Zanarkand was reduced to being the ruins visited in Spira. Yu Yevon, ruler of Zanarkand, was distraught and used his powers to create Sin from the Fayths of Zanarkand - that cluster of crystal-shrouded bodies on Mount Gagazet. These Fayths, and the separate Fayths in the Temples of Yevon, are all keeping the 'Dream Zanarkand' alive, so that its glory never fades. An imaginary world, but based on their own city. "Zanarkand never sleeps", because it's one ongoing fantasy. But the Fayths grew tired of the endless dreaming, and Sin's unrelenting vengeance out in the real world. The Fayths wanted to break the cycle and finally set themselves free of the undying dream. Sin can exist in the dream world, and seems to go there whenever it is defeated by the Final Summoning. Jecht made it into reality in this way. But then, the Fayths saw a way to end it all, for good. They chose Tidus to make the attempt; Jecht's attack on the 'Dream Zanarkand' was intended to give Tidus the drive and motivation to beat Sin - especially once Auron told him who Sin was. The Fayth of Bahamut appears to Tidus several times, basically because he's been 'chosen' to champion their cause out in reality. Auron was able to cross into the dream world, via Sin and probably with the consent of the Fayths, too.
Once Yevon was defeated, the Fayths could finally be sent, and the Fayth Cluster could be set free of its dream, too. Remember when you first reach the summit of Gagazet, and Yuna notices that someone's summoning via the Fayths up there? That column of blue-green energy, which we see dissipating at the end, is where the 'Dream Zanarkand' originates, I think. After all, when that energy finally started to fade, Tidus' face was on one of the bubbles, which all showed someone from Zanarkand.

It's complex, but I don't think there are any genuine holes in the story. Like Radje said, Maechen's explanations are very helpful and extremely revealing.

[eternalshiva]

I know that Big D! ;p I'm more curious to see what your theory to how Auron got to Zanarkan, there's a hole.

See? you know lots of stuff about FFX *brands you FFX nerd 2, me being the first*

[Big D]

Hmm. Auron got to Zanarkand after Braska defeated Sin, so that would've been about the time that Jecht first became Sin. Auron, near death thanks to Yunalesca, first made sure that Yuna was going to be cared for, then he set off to honour his promise to Jecht by finding a way to Zanarkand to watch over Tidus. Sin can go into the 'dream world', we know that much. Auron 'rode' Sin to get to Zanarkand; Jecht undoubtedly had a hand in that. Sin's a huge living creature, full of very real monsters and the body of Yu Yevon; yet all of these corporeal beings can make the transition into the 'dream world', probably by getting reduced into that same ethereal energy seen at Mount Gagazet. A reversal of the procedure that allowed Tidus and Jecht to become real, in other words. It can work one way, why not the other?
That's also a possible explanation for Auron ageing, while the other unsents remained the same - once in the 'dream world', he became a fully living, normal person once again. Then, when the time came, both Auron and Tidus left the 'dream world' by way of Sin. "You are sure?", Auron asks, just to be certain that Jecht's not going to change his mind or regret throwing his son into that mess.

[Nait]

I don't think Jecht got to Spira because Sin retreated to the Dream after losing, seeing as how there isn't much time between Jecht appearing in Spira and becoming the Final Summoning. But that's just a nitpick - Sin seems to be able to enter the Dream at will, as shown at the beginning.

And the unsent are kind of Dreams themselves - just like Fiends and Aeons, which supports the notion that Auron rode Jecht, just like Jecht the Sin before him, and Tidus Jecht, and, possibly, Seymor's mother the same Sin as Jecht or a Sin before that Sin.

Does anyone have a cronological list of all the High Summoners? And do we know anything about their Final Summonings?

[eternalshiva]

no unfortunately, there isn't, it's not detailed enough ;p you made what I was trying to say more clearly Nait. That's what I meant by Dream walking. Umm, I know that he came back with Sin, obviously. I'm just debating. I understnad a bit better the history but there are still a few quirky things.

*Declares Big D Winner of debate*

[DMKA]

But, were Jecht and Auron ever real back before Zanarkand got distroyed, or were they always dreams? I mean if the dream is of the actual city that once exsisted, doesn't that mean that the people there were all real just as the city was? And wouldn't that mean that Tidus died along with all the other people of Zanarkand? And did Jecht and Auron get lost out in Spira while Zanarkand was still alive or was Zanardkand already the dream? Please forgive me if any of these were made clear in the game but I haven't played it in along time and I only rushingly played through it once and I don't own it and I wanna know:(.

I swear when I play this game again its gonna be practially like playing it for the first time.

[eternalshiva]

They we're only part of the memories of the Fayths, this is what I was arguing, that Ject and Tidus we're never real to begin with. SO we're they really from 1,000 years ago and how did sin manage to get to Zanarkand. The FIRST Sin destroyed Zanarkand and Yu Yevon is in a constant state of summoning. He takes over people and turns them into the ultimate summon. The fayths *people that dies 1000 years ago* are trapped by him. They want to stop dreaming to stop Yu Yevon right? but they need someone to do it so they take Jecht first, he failed to see the light and then they take Tidus, who managed to do what his father couldn't do. SO. The Zanarkand they come from is a DREAM according to the conclusions both Nait and I have come to ;p

[Nait]

Except maybe Tidus is real - think about it.

All aeons are dreams of the fayth. But of what we have seen of them, they are practically the one and the same - therefore three Fayths for the Sisters, ek cetera ek cetera. So, each human-level complex creature (which neatly excludes that damn dog Yojimbo hangs out with), requires a base, a fayth, who is that creature. And isn't Jecht the Final Summoning? And those who are to be Final Summonings shall turn into fayths, as Yunalesca's hubby shows us... Which would mean that Tidus, together with every single soul in the Zanarkand Dreaming are fayths who are represented by a Dream, or Aeon version of themselves within the Zanarkand Dreaming. This would mean that the bubbles we see in the end may not be the Dreams - or then again, they may be - but the Fayth themselves, either reflected through the Fayths Released or forming some sort of cool jacuzzi thing, into the merciful Farplain's embrace, amen.

I wonder how many times the Zanarkand Fayths have relived and relived their lives, if this is true?

[eternalshiva]

Actually, the bubbles you speak of is a teaser for FFX-2.

I think that the fayths PULLED Jecht and Tidus from their dream. Spira is made from the descendents of the REAL Zanarkand that was destroyed. Sin seems to enter the dream of the Fayths, the Zanarkand Ject and Tidus come from, to destroy it, to give like a message to the Fayths that Sin/Jecht wants the dreaming to end.

I was thinking that maybe the only reason why Auron manages to get there is because he is dead, he's an unsent but because he is dead, he is able to enter the farplanes and enter the dream-world Zanarkand. He must of figured out that Jecht wasn't real or something...

[TheSpoonyBard]

If the Fayths are people from Zanarkand how come the Fayth people are similar to those of Spira, eg. When you speak to the Magus Sisters they are models of people from Besaid and Kilika. Surely if they were from Zanarkand they would look like people from there?

[Nait]

The Aeon Fayth are not actually Zanarkandians, I believe - but people who were born AS (Anno Sin :D) and were able to - with the help of Yunalesca, probably - recreate or revive the Summoning as to make them the Third Fayths after Zanarkand and Sin. That is why they do not seem Zanarkandian - they are of Spira, created for Spira and by the people of Spira to protect them and destroy Sin and end the Spiral of Death. Of course, they, too, are immensely old and in need of some sleep, which is why they, in their uncomfortable and tiring Dreaming, decided to take matters in their own hands.

Theory - Jecht & Tidus are not the only Dreamings to have left Zanarkand. The Fayth have been gathering, through all these years, people from the Dreaming to become Final Summonings, which would make Seymour's mommie look more and more like a Fayth - even though a corrupt one.