Sephieroth and Chrono Trigger/Cross...

[Ramza_Beouvle]

My first thread, ah anyways, I have been reading loads of timelines of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, and all of them said that some evil man took hold of the Masamune and killed loads of people with it and turning it evil because of that... I am not correct?? ... And some people seemed to think that it was Lynx... but Lynx does not really have enough time to take hold of the Masamune and kill people and turn it evil by the time of Chrono Cross.... AND With that current blocking the way, there's no way the Lynx could of get into the mainlands and take the masamune! The other day, I read some Final Fantasy VII Character profiles and as I reached to Sephieroth's profile... something hit me... "WAIT!!! He weild the masamune!!!!" So the birth of a new theory arise. Is that evil man that everyone was talking aobut out there is Sephieroth? Did he took the Masamune and killed people with it and turned it evil?? I just want my theory clarified.<---- Kind of stupid and off the hook, eh? My friend thought I was twisted...

[telemachus002]

nice thought but the world of ff7 and ct/cc are to far apart many have wielded the masamune as it is a widely used name like excaliber. but it also brings up a great premise of a fanfic featuring the previous owner and his/her road to power and ruthless slaughter. ... thinks for a moment... well i better go i have a story to write now.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

yeah, and i have to make a point, too...FF7 came out in 1997, unless i'm mistaken, and CC came out in '98. and from the looks of FF7, it has a lot of very advanced technological things, but in CC it is the year...either 1020 or 2009 (i've seen many debates about what the real year is).

[telemachus002]

oh and by the way welcome aboard ramza

[TheAbominatrix]

Masamune is a famous Japanese legendary sword, along with the legacy of Masamune Date. FF just likes to reference this a lot, along with Star Wars.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

The sword to which you're referring is named Grand Lion in Chrono Cross anyway; calling it Masamune was just stupidity on the part of the translators.

[edczxcvbnm]

I would also like to point out that it also was not Lynx who stole the Masamune either. He did not yet exist in the year 1005. He didn't exist until one year later. The fiend who stole the masamune is unknown.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

Originally posted by TheAbominatrix
Masamune is a famous Japanese legendary sword, along with the legacy of Masamune Date. FF just likes to reference this a lot, along with Star Wars.

actually Masamune was a famous Japanese swordSMITH! He was said to make the best weapons in Japan, so they decided to use his name for the sword in FF and CT series.

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by ForeverZeroUltima
actually Masamune was a famous Japanese swordSMITH! He was said to make the best weapons in Japan, so they decided to use his name for the sword in FF and CT series.

Masamune was a swordsmith, yes. There was also a great samurai by that surname, and a sword. The masumune sword legend, if I remember right, is something like the Sword and the Stone legend.

[Ramza_Beouvle]

So, basically, Sephiroth is not the person who took the masamune and killed the people with it, right? And it was just the tranlators' fault that the whole evil masamune questions pop up.

[TheAbominatrix]

Yes.

1. The worlds of VII and CC/CT do not mix. If Sephiroth existed in this world, then wouldnt we hear at least a little bit about Meteor, Midgard, and all these other goings on?
2. The correct name for CC/CT's Masamune is Grand Lion.
3. Masamune is used in tons of other games, and is never the same sword twice.
4. Grand Lion in CT was a broad sword anyway. I know it can change, as it did when Doreen joined them and it became the Grand Dream Lion (I think that's the right name), but I doubt it would turn into that slim, long katana Sephiroth weilded in VII.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

true...
by the way, the Mastermune was the Grand Dream, which explains why the Triple Tech in CT (Frog, Marle, Robo) had THREE Masamunes appearing.
and it is also true that no two Masamunes are the same. (CC:blood-stained sword of evil/FF7-long katana weilded by Sephiroth/FF6: one of Cyan's best swords made by his wife and kid)

[Stayin Dizzy]

Masamune explanation: I just spent 2 hours researching all this so I hope questions are answered!!

the explanation in the game is very, very wierd. as you know masa and mune inhabit the masamune. their big sister is doreen who looks after them. masa and mune (aka Grand & Leon--thus the GrandLion) are effectively neutral alignment but doreen is good. doreen allows them to inhabit the sword so they can help on the quest (They inhabit the ruby knife ((Chrono Trigger)) in order to trash the mammon machine, but it gets broken and is later reforged into the masamune for frog to use against magus) Masa and Mune somehow go evil before CC (In Chrono Trigger Masa and Mune mention that it's not about who owns the sword, but about how it's used ((In CT you learn in the kingdom of zeal that the Masamune takes the form of the heart of the carrer, in Cyrus case he had a broad sword so it took that form, and with Frog since he was trained by Cyrus and fought with a Broad sword it took that form for him, and with Serge it took the form of a swallow)) Thinking upon this I thought that after the events of Chrono Trigger, when Frog was sent back to his own era, that he decided that there was no need to have such a weapon and decided to put it back where it belonged. During the course of the 400 years that separate Serge's era from Frog's someone must have used the sword! for an evil purpose, and therefore the Masamune became a dark sword. They get too caught up in the sword's personality, and a sword is for killing things, ). later on when you defeat Dario, Doreen finds Masa and Mune and tells them off for being evil, and inhabits the sword as well, as a moral guide for masa and mune. then the masamune becomes the mastermune and you can equip it.

MASAMUNE, The Greatest Sword Smith Of All Time
Masamune's familiar name is Goro Nyudo. He lived around the 13th century (Kamakura period) and died sometime in the 14th century. Masamune is the best known sword smith in Japan of all time, and a well-known philosopher

MURAMASA, The Cursed Sword smith
I actually had a hard time finding information on Muramasa, so there's not a whole lot I know about him. The other sword smith named Muramasa was a Japanese student studying the art of sword-making. Muramasa lived during the 16th century (Muromachi period). He wished to recreate Masamune's work, but he failed. In the Japanese bujutsu there is a saying: satsujinken katsujinken. Roughly translated, this means 'The sword that kills, the sword that gives life'.

MURASAME AND THE MASAMUNE, The Cursed Combination
An anime called The Hakkenden, The Legend of The Dog Warriors uses the Murasame in their story. The Final Fantasy series, Chrono Cross, and a few other games have this sword somewhere in them. So what's the big deal with these swords?

In Japan, two "magical" blades exist. These are Masamune (Mah-sah-moo-nay) and Murasame (Mer-ah-sah-may) swords. If you put the two blades in a river with floating leaves, the Masamune blade would repel the leaves and let them flow safely down the stream, while the Murasame blade would attract and cut them up. The Murasame blade is supposedly cursed, but very powerful. It is so innately cold, that water disperses off it when drawn and exposed to air. This test symbolizes the two periods and how chaotic the Muromachi period was.

Hope that helps

[ForeverZeroUltima]

i wasn't sure i read ALL that correctly, but thanx for clearing it up :) i even might watch that anime u mentioned

[TheAbominatrix]

Oh and it may only be a little reference, but in the anime Yoroiden Samurai Troopers (Ronin Warriors in America), all of the main characters are decendants of various famous samurai or other Japanese historical figures (Yagyu, Hashiba, Mouri). The bearer of Korin (Halo) is the descendant of Masamune Date, who is the samurai I metioned earlier.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Originally posted by ds4284
((In CT you learn in the kingdom of zeal that the Masamune takes the form of the heart of the carrer, in Cyrus case he had a broad sword so it took that form, and with Frog since he was trained by Cyrus and fought with a Broad sword it took that form for him, and with Serge it took the form of a swallow))The Grand Lion is a sword and only a sword. Serge got the Grand Dream, which had never been anything but a swallow (save for a Triple Tech in CT).
Murasame (Mer-ah-sah-may)That's "moo-RAH-sah-MAY."

[edczxcvbnm]

I wish it was a broad sword...you know. The kind that turns your enemies into hot broads.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

Originally posted by edczxcvbnm
I wish it was a broad sword...you know. The kind that turns your enemies into hot broads.

..........??????!?????

not you again!

[edczxcvbnm]

Originally posted by ForeverZeroUltima
..........??????!?????

not you again!

Just because you can't deal with my mad pun!

[ForeverZeroUltima]

Originally posted by edczxcvbnm
Just because you can't deal with my mad pun!

i hate you, edczxcvbnm. I will hunt you down forever and slaughter you. (and what the hell is with your sig and av?

[Ramza_Beouvle]

wow.... my whole theory's down the waste bin, now, thank you everyone for clearing that up for me! Stupid translators...

[Spatvark]

Originally posted by ForeverZeroUltima
and what the hell is with your sig and av?

The avatar is the greatest show to be ever shown on tv, and the sig is just classic edczxcvbnm. If you don't get it, you never will =P

[PETE]

you sir ramza should be drug out into the street and beaten with oranges for comeing up with a stupid ass theory like that.

in Chrono Trigger the Masamune is a knight sword *what ever style sword it is i dunno*

in FF7 Sepheroths was a Katana? or nadogachi? dont know sword styles much*

so inorder to make any connection between the two Crono would of has to use the Masamune because crono uses katanas

so that blows your theory away.

MAGUS COULD SEPHEROTH ANY DAY WOOT!

[Del Murder]

Looks like Ramza is not around anymore, but you still shouldn't insult people or bump old threads with no real input. Try to use better judgement.