the 30 seconds I hate chrono trigger

[Stayin Dizzy]

I'm a giant fan of the chrono series and know TONS about it and how they connect. but one thing I've yet to understand is what happened to Chrono and Marle. I was just scannin the threads and I saw Lucca as someones fav CT female, and I thought to myself "Lucca sux because shes genious enough to create time travel, Chronopolis, the Promethius Circuit (Robo), and defeat the powerful destroyer of earth, LAVOS. but then this sissy cat Lynx kills her with ease. Then I realized....who killed Chrono and Marle?? And I got PI$$ED!!! WHO killed the only remaining magic users on the face of the earth?? All the monsters and Lavos were dead, peace was on earth and all that. But someone somewhere killed the great Chrono and Marle, overthrowing Guardia kingom, and stealing the Masamune. All before Serge was born, because it was before the Acacia Dragoons split up (Radius weilded the great sword, and hes an old puke stain) , so it was before the creation of El Nido, So it couldn't have been Lynx, and the Porre army was weak,and RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Any thoughts on this? My head hurts from all this, and I can't get all the dates right in my head

[Chibi Youkai]

Well, it wshows that Lynx travels back in time with Harle, so she might have had a hand in it. Also, if you look really closely at those kids that are with the prophet ( I can never remember which of them he is), the look a good deal like Chrono, Marle and Lucca. I don't know if that helps any, but oh well. I think that Harle did contribute.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

hrm. i remember that it WAS an army that attacked and overthrew Guardia. I believe Crono and Marle were killed in the assault.

and...don't you call Lynx a sissy cat *pulls out scythe*

[Chibi Youkai]

I didn't call Lynx sissy. I didn't even imply it. Lynx isd like one of the coolist. I simply stated that he might have had help from Harle.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

i wasn't talking about you, Chibi Yourukai. I was saying that to Daryn.

Lynx only kept running away because things were getting more interesting for him everytime Serge got stronger. It only shows him limping to imply that you've almost defeated him in battle. Then, BOOM. Lynx fools Serge and switches their body.

[Chibi Youkai]

Oh, sorry.
That was one of my favourite parts of the game.:)

[ForeverZeroUltima]

mine too. i enjoyed playing as Lynx. especially during the few seconds you get to use with him the scythe.

[Chibi Youkai]

What gets me in that is why? Tecnically since they switch bodies, they keep the weapons that the bodies origionally had?

[Sephex]

That question has bugged me as well. I know it makes no sense for them to die, but I think they did that to make the story of 'Cross' more interesting.

[Stayin Dizzy]

Lynx is a wuss FZU. who did he defeat on his own??? Nobody worth recognition. He was a coward, a theif, and a weakling. He manipulated others to do his bidding when he couldn't do it himself. Thus why a few teenagers are able to totally thrash him.

Back to the topic though, I think it WAS Porre who overthrew Guardia, but my question lies more in the HOW of it all. 2 of the most powerful beings on earth, who could travel time, and could cast magic spells, were defeated by some measly soldiers...the entire concept of it drives me mad

[Doomgaze]

much like FF6's Empire used Espers, Porre used Elements to create its invincible army.


i think.

[edczxcvbnm]

They never even said Crono(there is no H you assholes) and Marle died. Your just assuming that they died. Its not like with Lucca were they flat out told you she died. They do not mention Crono or Marle.

*punches everyone*

[Sephex]

It was pretty heavily implied though with that scene at the end of the PSX version of 'Trigger'. You could be right though. There isn't enough evidence to back up either theory.

[Chibi Youkai]

That's just why it's a theory.


origionally posted by edczxcvbnm
They never even said Crono(there is no H you assholes) and Marle died. Your just assuming that they died. Its not like with Lucca were they flat out told you she died. They do not mention Crono or Marle.

No need to be so rude about it. Not all of us are purfect spellers. And it is just a theory.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

i'm not gonna waste my time on you, Daryn.

*punches edczxcvbnm back*

hrm. this is really interesting about how the Porre army did overcome whatsitsfaceandwhatsthosekidsnameagain....

and maybe they left out parts of the story so you can use your imagination to think up what happened in-between.

[Chibi Youkai]

That could be too. If you watched the basic ending on CT, didn't it show Chrono following his cat who jumped into the time portal?

[Sephex]

Originally posted by Chibi Youkai
That could be too. If you watched the basic ending on CT, didn't it show Chrono following his cat who jumped into the time portal?

His mother chases after the cat into the time portal. Then Chrono was all like "Damn, I can't leave my mom in some random time period.", and he went after both of them.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

but of course, if you let the Epoch smash into Lavos, it'll show Crono and Marle hanging onto some balloons and floating up to the moon....weird.

[Chibi Youkai]

The point is, he might not have been there when it was destroyed.

[edczxcvbnm]

Originally posted by Chibi Youkai
No need to be so rude about it. Not all of us are purfect spellers. And it is just a theory.

Yeah there is. I am far from a perfect speller also but I make typos and stuff here and there. You didn't make a typo. By being so rude about the situation it is more likely that you will spell the word right in the future because you will remember the anguish and hate and go...'Oh yeah. Thats how you spell the word'

There is always and excuse to being an asshole.

*kicks ForeverZeroUltima in the crotch*

[Chibi Youkai]

That's certainly an intresting way to think about it.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

Originally posted by edczxcvbnm
Yeah there is. I am far from a perfect speller also but I make typos and stuff here and there. You didn't make a typo. By being so rude about the situation it is more likely that you will spell the word right in the future because you will remember the anguish and hate and go...'Oh yeah. Thats how you spell the word'

There is always and excuse to being an asshole.

*kicks ForeverZeroUltima in the crotch*

*kicks back from both sides*

[Stayin Dizzy]

Enough with the fighting kids...:D

Anyways, I wonder if perhaps cHrono (I like to spell it how it comes up on my game) was able to somehow get lost in the cogs of time?? Weren't they talking about naming the next Chrono "Brake" or "Break" or something? I remember a thread talking about how it could tie into the final realigning of the timelines and universes and such, perhaps they were plotting the potential 3rd game to involve like a chrono/serge, kid/schala meetup of sort?? I dunno just a thought

[Clyde Arronway]

Chrono break seems to have been dropped from the drawing boards.

but anyway, Anniahlation is a bad way for games to be going in. Nowdays there is no really happy ending... chrono trigger had a possibility for complete resolution, the music played in the very end just seemed to seal up everything... and then Square goes and kills it... but then again, CC uses so much "alternate future" stuff that square could but probably won't fix it in another sequal

[Lord Xehanort]

Crono and Marle were in Lucca's House. Lucca's House was burned to the ground. The only survivor was Kid.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Uhm.

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by Ansem
Crono and Marle were in Lucca's House. Lucca's House was burned to the ground. The only survivor was Kid.

It's never said that they're at Lucca's house. If they were, I highly doubt all three of them could have been beaten by Harle and Lynx.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

If Marle had been there: "Ice! =D"

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi
If Marle had been there: "Ice! =D"

xD Exactly.

[Edgar]

The Chrono Series is, currently, filled with holes and unsolved problems. There were many questions left unanswered, yet so many clues and theories that requires too many assumptions to be called an actual fact.

You can believe whatever theories presented. Those on GameFAQs sound logical but then they ALL require assumptions. In other words...THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU COMPLETED (the time line, not the game) AND UNDERSTAND THE TRUE CHRONO SERIES, BECAUSE THERE IS NO HARD EVIDENCES TO BRIDGE THE GAPS!!

I believe that Crono and Marle were killed by the person who turned Masamune evil. Again, this is one possible theory. This theory believes that there is a person who stole the Masumune. He (and maybe an army) when on a rampage on Guardia. Whoever turned the Masamune evil must have some damn powerful bastard which rivals its former good set by Crono.

The wielder is close to being a fact, at least to my belief. It connects nicely, but still...you get the idea.

[Lord Xehanort]

If you look at the children's drawings in Lucca's House, you'll see one of Crono and one of Marle. The ghosts who appear with Miguel are Crono, Marle and Lucca.

[TheAbominatrix]

Aaaand?

For one, the drawings were done by the orphans (maybe kid herself) and had probably been there for quite some time. The drawings are not the real Crono and Marle, so the paper burning wouldnt kill the two of them. All it proves is that Crone and Marle visited them (or that they visited Crono and Marle), nothing else.

The ghosts who appear with Miguel are from a collapsed dimension, if you listen to what Miguel says. They arent really 'ghosts' either, I believe he said they were just memories or energies or some such thing. Even if they were ghosts, it still doesnt prove that Crono and Marle were at Lucca's house.

[Lord Xehanort]

Hmm... good point. I never thought that way. I merely assumed that it meant that Crono and Marle were there. Maybe that's what happens when you play Chrono Cross without playing Chrono Trigger.

[Stayin Dizzy]

What if Frog turned the Masamune evil?? Because he surely took it back with him to his time, so between his time and Chrono's he probably his it in that stupid forest of his and anyone could have found it

[Chibi Youkai]

I don't think think that Frog turned the Masamune evil. After all, after you finish the credits it shows this little scene tht says the masamune disapeard. So if it did, why would Frog have it?

[Aphelion]

I think Frog used the Masamune for a bad purpose (kill Magus) and the sword turned evil because of this desire. That's what I believe.

[Chibi Youkai]

But isn't that what weapons are for?

[Clyde Arronway]

As it is told to me, the sword that frog used is NOT the masamune in japan. It's a woosley-ism (for those who don't know what that refers to, google for Ted Woosley and any number of rpg names... chrono trigger, secret of mana, or especially FFVI. It will become very clear very fast.)

It is indeed supposed to be the other sword, the one which stands against the masamune which frog wielded.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

The Masamune's correct name is indeed the Grand Lion, but that goes for both Trigger and Cross. So it doesn't really change anything.

[The Outspoken]

Any thoughts on this? Sure.

Chrono Cross is perhaps the worst game I have ever played, and Chrono Trigger the best. CC was a game that Square gagged onto the screen to cash in, while CT was a game they made in an attempt to make a good game.

They didn't take much time plugging things like plot holes.

[Stayin Dizzy]

That's kinda harsh Outspoken. Maybe you didn't pay attention in cross, but it's connected to trigger in almost every aspect, aside from having some extra characters that didn't get a lot of development, ie chronopolis, Kid=Schala, the chrono trigger, the prometheus circuit, etc, etc

[Outsider]

I'm soooo happy to just pretend that Chrono Cross never happened (even though I lost some hours of my life playing it)

I see things this way: Crono and his pals killed Lavos in 1999AD, and everyone lived happy lives doing whatever they wanted to do in their respective eras. Oh, and they never gave a damn about alternative realities, paradoxes, and all that crap...

sooo happy...

[Sefie1999AD]

I'm soooo happy to just pretend that Chrono Cross never happened (even though I lost some hours of my life playing it)

I see things this way: Crono and his pals killed Lavos in 1999AD, and everyone lived happy lives doing whatever they wanted to do in their respective eras. Oh, and they never gave a damn about alternative realities, paradoxes, and all that crap...

sooo happy...

I fully agree with Outsider. I think Chrono Trigger had a really great story, but Chrono Cross utterly messed it up by creating a new story that is full of holes and paradoxes, not to mention it's so rushed, especially in Disc 2. So I just pretend the story ended with CT's happy ending.

[Chibi Youkai]

Umm... you guys, isn't this getting a little out of hand? The thread wasn't made to bash the entire game, just a tiny bit of it. :(

[Clyde Arronway]

CC deserves it! Games are going the way of anniahlation or desolation. This is a terrible thing. Games like CC, FFV, etc all destroy part of the world or plot of a previous game. What's the point of playing CT just to see: "You saved the world so now we at square are gonna kill off the main charectors and let some boondocks town in the middle of nowhere, porre, conquor the earth."

[Chibi Youkai]

This isn't a hate thread over the whole game, people! Please!

[ForeverZeroUltima]

*stands beside Chibi Youkai*

i'm with CY. we're here to fill in gaps on the story between CT and CC, and you ignorant fools go and bash on CC. maybe if you guys had some sense, CC had a terrific storyline to match up to CT's. Now, i don't hate any of the people who say "CT was better than CC. Both were good." I don't hate anyone unless they give me a reason to hate them. You guys are giving me that reason!

[Outsider]

I'm not bashing CC yet, I just said that I like pretend it never happened, so CT's history remains untouched.

CT was better than CC for the simple fact that CC is one horrible game. And NOW I gave you a reason to hate me.

[The Man]

I like to think that most of the people who bash CC do so because they simply didn't get it.

The second disc was crap, yes. It's always bad when half the plot of a game is given right before the final battle, if only because it almost completely prevents any sort of emotional development from resulting from any bit of that plot. Most of the details given were completely irrelevant to the rest of the story or didn't even make much sense the way it was explained, but I distinctly get the impression that the developers were expecting to be given far more time to make the game than they received, which explains some of the empty shells of characters that one can recruit, the confusing plot, and the general "unfinished" feeling of the game.

I'll be the first to admit that CC could have been a much better game than it was. But moments like the Serge/Lynx body switch and the entire sequence in the Dead Sea more than make up for it, to me. Hopefully, if Chrono Break ever gets finished, it will remedy some of the ambiguities in Chrono Cross's story, but I don't really have any more unanswered questions about CC than I do about, say, FF7.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

To Outsider: huh. you gave me the reason a LONG time ago, dolt.

To The Man: mrf. fine.

[Sephex]

*comments on the CC hate*

I enjoyed the game for what it was. Yeah, it was not as great as 'Trigger', but does that really make it a bad game? I had lots of fun gathering an army of characters (the important ones were developed and that's what counts), aranging my elements in the most strategic way possible, having challanging fights thrown at me (more challenging that ANY in Chrono Tigger), enjoying the superb soundtrack, exploring the variety of enviroments presented, exploring all possible outcomes of certain sections in the plot, and generaly having a DAMN good time while playing every second of the game.

[Outsider]

Hmmm.. I don't undertand, I guess I played another game, a really crappy version of CC that was only sold to me, in order to make furious.

- If you consider that only Serge, Lynx, and Kid are important, than yes, only the important characters are developed.

- That "army" of characters only worked to make the game more confusing. I got lots of them, and it wasn't enjoyable. And most of them are really, really stupid.

- I found no real strategy on the "element" thing, I just stuffed the only 5 or 6 characters that I actually used with the more powerful elements of each color, and it worked against all the enemies I fought until the Sky Dragon (when I finally gave up this mess of a game and started to do more interesting stuff, like watch TV)

- Challenging fights? I only remember one of those, against Miguel (I guess that the name that guy).

- I guess I was still to see this "large variety of enviroments", since all I could get was one or two damn Islands. I'm sure I wouldn't, though.

- Oh, the soundtrack... The only highlight of this game, since Mitsuda is a great musician. Thank God I can listen to it without having to play through the game once again.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

thank you Sephex.

you have a point about the music, Outsider. and yes, it gets confusing when you have to reequip Serge over and over again when he gets his body taken away/given back. And most of the characters were absolutely stupid to "add humor" to the game. And....

i somehow feel better now. But heck, any eighth graders who pick fights with me and gets their arse kicked from one end of the Junior High to the other without even touching me, is BOUND to make me feel better!

[Sephex]

the stuff you said (don't want to take up to much room).

I am not getting in one of these back and forth forum debates. I was just trying to show the game from a different point of view.

[Edgar]

I just love complications, which is why I love the Chrono series and Xenogears.

I thought CC has a !@#$load of underdevolped characters but then Suikoden series was...well, 108 characters =\ and heck, I woudn't care for those characters as long as I get the story done.

I played CC first. First time through I do not know wtf is happening at all (yeah, I suck). Second time I'm still clueless. It was only after playing CT and taking out a piece of paper will I start to obtain a certain degree of grasp on the storyline.


About the topic, I didn't think Frog turned the sword evil and if he did, it would start more wierd rumors about the connection between him and Glenn of CC lol.

And stop the bashing, it's quite obvious from here.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

*additional note to Outsider* only challenging fight was Miguel? You should have tried to take on the Criosphinx without Yellow Plates ;)

[The Man]

Yeah, try Dario before you get Serge back. That's a bitch and a half

[ForeverZeroUltima]

i actually beat Dario the first chance possible (after recruiting Riddel). i beat him quite easily, though it took a while ;) he never even attacked me.

[The Man]

How the hell did you manage that? He was easily faster than two-thirds of my party when I fought him the first time.

[Chibi Youkai]

I still had trouble with Dario, even the second time fighting him... then again the second time it was 1 am and I was on sleep deprivation as it was.

If you attack him with the right order of elements he won't attack you, it's just a pain to keep doing over and over. Especially when Riddle is attack prone.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

How the hell did you manage that? He was easily faster than two-thirds of my party when I fought him the first time.

you see, Dario always counterattacks with the opposite color element of what you cast on him.
If you cast a red element on him, he'll counterattack with Numble.
If you cast a blue element on him, he'll counterattack with Weaken.
If you cast a yellow element on him, he'll counterattack with BatEye.
If you cast a green element on him, he'll counterattack with LoRes.
If you cast a black element on him, he'll counterattack with RecoverAll.
If you cast a white element on him, he'll counterattack with ConductaRod.(dead).

but the thing is, HE WILL NOT ATTACK UNTIL 1 TURN AFTER HE COUNTERATTACKS! this gives you time to cast another element on him before he can attack you! And to keep your characters' stamina up, have them use attacks until only 1 stamina point left, then cast an element. then have the next character do the same. by the time it's back to the first char's turn, his stamina has recharged.

so meanwhile he was lowering my stats insignificantly, i was hacking away on him ;)

[Chibi Youkai]

That's the strategy I used at that one island place I can't remember the name of with Karsh, and to think of it, that's kinda what I did with Dario too.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

Strategy=own your enemy ;)

even if it takes a hundred years :D

which is how long it took for me to figures out a way to beat the Criosphinx WITHOUT Yellow Plates on just "New Game", not "New Game+". AND without doing the Chrono Cross to solve its riddle.

It was hard. I beat it eventually.

[Stayin Dizzy]

my first fight with criosphinx was by accident. I didn't know anything about him being such a tough boss so he kicked my butt for like 2 weeks before I finally beat him. And I haven't played cross in a bit, but what are 'yellow plates"

[Tarshish]

well, does anyone know (especially since Square and Enix are now merged) that there will be anothe installment of the Chrono series? I hope so, and please Akira Toriyama, and not so many playable characters, I just get overwhelmed wanting to max everyone out and it's utterly impossible.

[Clyde Arronway]

No, I'm sorry, but there was one plan for a new game, Chrono Break, but it's officially dead. What is really necesarry is a third installment to reinstate the power of Guardia and create some deus ex machina solution to the deaths of the entire CT charecter list that is CC's main presumption. It needs to get back to the true nature of the wierd person thing that made the time gate things to begin with.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

Daryn: Yellow Plates, you can steal from the Earth Dragon in the Home World. They have very low defense, but you get healed by yellow elements.

Tarshish: Wasn't that third installment Radical Dreamers? If so, it only had three characters, don't worry.

Clyde Arrowny: just so that you know, there WERE some Time Gates in Chrono Cross. (the Dead Sea, Bend of Time).

[Clyde Arronway]

Alrighty! I just was playing Ct on my emulator (I have all the cartradges, I just can't stand how slow the games are!)
Well, nonetheless, to go back to the origional topic of this thread, square apperantly made up the entire kill guardia thing for the sake of CC, because chrono and marle cannot be dead. When in the future in arras dome, It hit me. If you read past this point, I'm gonna have to put up my generic: "there might be spoilers, I don't think so but I'm not gonna have some dingbat who thinks that saying that the main charector's name is crono is a spoiler yelling at me" warning. That said, It hit me while talking to doan, a number of npc's were listed at the end of the game as being in the geneological line of crono, I think ayla was one, but I'm very positive that Doan was a decendant of Crono and Marle. Ergo, the line could not have been broken with the fall of Guardia and crono could not have been killed!

[ChocoboRider]

very true. ayla and...umm... that other dude got married and so she's marle's great great great. . . .grandmother. Doan was a descendant of marle, but we don't know for sure it was crono's. we assume, because of many of ct's endings had marle and crono together in some form (i.e. hanging on balloons, her waking him up, etc). thus, the only requirement is for marle to have had a kid. doesn't matter with whom, it just matter that it happens.

[Clyde Arronway]

yes but the same special psx endings that insinuate that chrono died are the same ones that showed crono marrying marle. True, it could be argued that she escaped and had a child with another, but...
also, because doan is the descendant of the information center, and a dome sitts over truce, it is apparrent that the citizens of the northwestern continent have again regained power of some sort, which allows for an interesting sequel concept. of course given what square churned up when asked for a first sequel to ct, who knows what blech they'll churn up next.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

*eyes squinting in the dark to read these posts*

alright then.

and Ayla's husband was Kino.

[BatChao]

Hmm.. good point, Clyde. But still, if all that matters is that Marle's child survives, then maybe she had a child before Porre's invasion, got killed during, but her child survived. It keeps the decendent think intact while still killing of Marle and Crono. Anyway, I kinda don't like how CC was so dark compared to CT, which was way lighthearted. CC was a cool game and all, but to kill off (or insinuate the killing of) some of my fave CT characters was sad. :(

[Clyde Arronway]

Come to think of it, that idea would make a good plot too. If Crono dies, I'd rather see it myself than watch him get knoked off in the credits.

[The Captain]

Well, technically, you CAN watch Crono die, if you play CT and get to a certain section of the game...

Take care all.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

disentegrated, more like. :p


Anyway, I kinda don't like how CC was so dark compared to CT, which was way lighthearted. CC was a cool game and all, but to kill off (or insinuate the killing of) some of my fave CT characters was sad.

i happen to like dark games ^_^. They are the highlight of my life, next to stealing young boys' bodies and forcing their girlfriends to help me control the world. *evil grin*

[Clyde Arronway]

Well, technically, you CAN watch Crono die, if you play CT and get to a certain section of the game...

Take care all.

yes... in the credits. like I said

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I don't remember any credits rolling in the Ocean Palace.

[Clyde Arronway]

Yes.. head on backwards combined with selective pseudo-dyslexia. Doom. Yes, ocean palace death, but still... he shouldn't have finally died in the credits. Then again, he was raised once... Do I hear twice?

[ChocoboRider]

personally, i don't count the psx version of ct. i'm a hardcore snes player and consider the games made for it to be the real ones. they didn't show crono and marle married in the original version, so i don't consider it to have definately happened.

yep, ur right about crono dying, tho. but i don't remember him getting revived. technically, they went back in time and switched him for a doll, so he never really died in the first place. now i expect u'll argue about all the parallel universes that were created where he did die.

too bad! i win!

[Clyde Arronway]

too bad! i win!

wonderful logic. You're my kinda person.

[Chibi Youkai]

I'm not gonna argue about it. Besides, what's the point in it? If you did argue, you'd have to argue the whole game. Think about it, all the things that never should of happened, the ripple effect, the past and the future tenses, and now my head's starting to spin, so I'll shut up for the time.

[ForeverZeroUltima]

If you did argue, you'd have to argue the whole game.

which is the reason i lost my temper badly last time.

[Chibi Youkai]

But it's sooo much fun tying your brain into knots, ya know?

[ForeverZeroUltima]

*takes a scythe swing at Chibi Youkai*

[Chibi Youkai]

I'm faster than you. *runs*

[ForeverZeroUltima]

*casts Stop on Chibi Youkai*

now, then...*evil grin*