Squall

[TasteyPies]

Whats wrong with squall?

Mr.Mimic said he sucks, but what does the majority of FF fans think?

[Rusty]

SQUALL ROCKS!

[Flying Mullet]

Mr.Mimic said he sucks
Couldn't have said it any better myself. :p

[Rusty]

Couldn't have said what better? That squall rocks or that he sucks (which he totally doesnt!)

[Del Murder]

The stupid jacket annoys me.

[DocFrance]

The fact that the gunblade makes no sense at all gets to me. That and he's a horrible character.

[TheAbominatrix]

His attitude was fine... but then all of the sudden he did a complete 180 and became a whole different character for no reason. That was stupid and made him a terrible character.

[Mo-Nercy]

I'm glad Squall changed toward the end, becoming a more heroic persona that I would expect in a main character. I wouldn't have liked the game as much if he had stayed the same sulky guy the whole way through. And yes, I agree that the change was kinda sudden. I think Square left out an extra disc between disc 2 and 3 where Squall just sits in a psychologists office talking for 6 hours.

[TheAbominatrix]

It's not either personality that's the problem, it's the fact that the change was completly random. Why did he become a different person? The team nags at him for a while and then he's just like "Oh, well I'll change into a completly different person than the one I was for pretty much my entire life." and become completly obsessed with this girl and whatnot. It was just dumb and it killed the game for me. Not to mention that the game had this focus on Squall and Rinoa, completly leaving the rest of the team in the dark as far as development went, and it really caused me to dislike Squall (and Rinoa) more than I already did.

[SquallKicksAss]

I like Squall's attitude. It rocks! He's such a mean guy. I haven't actually beaten Disc 2 yet 'coz I keep getting stuck in Balamb when you have to fight Faijin and Rujin. But I think that Squall's jacket is cool. The only thing I don't like is the way they put all those stupid lion symbol things around...on the menu screen....on his blade...around his neck....in his room...It gets annoying.

[Polaris]

Whatever

:tongue:

[TheAbominatrix]

I like Squall's attitude. It rocks! He's such a mean guy. I haven't actually beaten Disc 2 yet 'coz I keep getting stuck in Balamb when you have to fight Faijin and Rujin. But I think that Squall's jacket is cool. The only thing I don't like is the way they put all those stupid lion symbol things around...on the menu screen....on his blade...around his neck....in his room...It gets annoying.

Wait for it. Squall turns from a 'mean guy' to a sniveling little turd.

[lonely]

sorry couldn't vote coz Squall is jes the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo doody and very cute!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[SeeDRankLou]

His attitude was fine... but then all of the sudden he did a complete 180 and became a whole different character for no reason. That was stupid and made him a terrible character.

Squall didn't do a 180, Squall was always like the character that you see him become. Throughout the first half of the game, he is giving people a facade, due to several psychological issues that he hadn't worked through. When he is alone with an unconscious Rinoa (so basically alone, for the first time since the very beginning of the game), you see who he really is because there is no one for him to put his facade up for. So in that scene, he is speaking to Rinoa, but it's more an apostrophe than dialogue. Squall suffers from basical childhood trauma that he didn't correctly process which gives him an unconcious anti-socialness that he puts on without even thinking about it (which I saw through after the first 30 minutes of gameplay). The scene where he "does a 180" is perfectly timed, and perfectly performed. And toward the end of the game, you see him struggle with this want to put up his facade and his eventual comfortness with his companions, not to mention his love for Rinoa. All in all, I'd say Squall is one of the top three most thought out and well developed characters that Square has ever created. Not to mention they made him rather attractive.

So what's wrong with Squall? He was an introverted child who, through several traumatic childhood experiences, grew up to be an anti-social teenager who would rather vomit than let people know him.

[Aphelion]

Whatever. I hate Squall! Rinoa always cares about him and what he says? WHATEVER! If Rinoa said "Squall, I love you!" his answer would be "Whatever" too?

[m4tt]

Where's the "He sucks" option? I agree with Mr Mimic.

[PhoenixAsh]

I agree with SeedRankLou. Squall was well thought out, and his actions could be justifed by his story. Square may have done well to have given the other characters a backstory aswell, but that's not the point.

[Flying Mullet]

I think that we're all forgetting the point here:

SQUALL SUCKS

[Kirobaito]

I think that we're all forgetting the point here:

SQUALL SUCKS

:)

[TheAbominatrix]

I really dont agree with you there, Lou. It was a poor plot line and poor character development. He had no reason to change, and it was pathetic that he did so. Most especially since I found him to be a cool character that didnt have to play into all this nonsense that a lot of FF characters did. And then he's just like "What's that? Girl?" and he became obsessed and whiney. It was disgusting.

[Rusty]

Excuse me :D you also forgetting one major point...he's awesome :D i love him...

[TheAbominatrix]

Excuse me :D you also forgetting one major point...he's awesome :D i love him...

um... should that go in my 'reasons to hate' post?

[Peegee]

I didn't really buy his character change as well. If he was just guarding himself, it would still take a while for him to feel comfortable enough to be 'normal' or 'happy'. It just felt like he was dying to be a joyous person, and the entire time he was training at the Garden he had plenty of opportunities.

So I would have to say his attitude needs a fixing, but only because it changed. He was fine with his 'whatever'.

[aeris2001x2]

Squall didn't do a 180, Squall was always like the character that you see him become. Throughout the first half of the game, he is giving people a facade, due to several psychological issues that he hadn't worked through. When he is alone with an unconscious Rinoa (so basically alone, for the first time since the very beginning of the game), you see who he really is because there is no one for him to put his facade up for. So in that scene, he is speaking to Rinoa, but it's more an apostrophe than dialogue. Squall suffers from basical childhood trauma that he didn't correctly process which gives him an unconcious anti-socialness that he puts on without even thinking about it (which I saw through after the first 30 minutes of gameplay). The scene where he "does a 180" is perfectly timed, and perfectly performed. And toward the end of the game, you see him struggle with this want to put up his facade and his eventual comfortness with his companions, not to mention his love for Rinoa. All in all, I'd say Squall is one of the top three most thought out and well developed characters that Square has ever created. Not to mention they made him rather attractive.

So what's wrong with Squall? He was an introverted child who, through several traumatic childhood experiences, grew up to be an anti-social teenager who would rather vomit than let people know him.

sos the abmonimatrix but this makes perfect sense. he was always a nice guy, just very forked up. its only when rinoa hits her coma does he realise he actually gives a poop about her which leads on to other ppl and he allows himself to escape his box. i think that was a major triumuph.

it was not sudden! from first meeting rinoa he started to change. he got more and more talkative, less annoying and surly etc and cuminated in rinoas coma.

i personally believe he one of the best developed characters cause he is very introspective, more then any other ff protaginist. the reason i think the other ff8 characters suffer is cause they spend so much on squall , the others r an after thought!

ff6 had the oppisite scenario, ALMOST EVERYONE, was well developed, but none to a cosmic standard.

i mean only cloud compares to squall in protaginist ff development (aint played ff4 so dont know cecil yet). ff9 and ffx are better gamedx imho, but zidane and tidus dont hold a candle to squall!

believe me, without squall ff8 would have been nothing. ff8 is only 5th fav ff, but a lead character of sheer quality. i can see others opinions but imho he rocks.

[TheAbominatrix]

sos the abmonimatrix but this makes perfect sense. he was always a nice guy, just very forked up. its only when rinoa hits her coma does he realise he actually gives a poop about her which leads on to other ppl and he allows himself to escape his box. i think that was a major triumuph.

If he had REASON. He had no reason to change. He had always had people being nice to him, and he had had so much time to come out of his shell. It was stupid and trite and sudden. With no real reason.


it was not sudden! from first meeting rinoa he started to change. he got more and more talkative, less annoying and surly etc and cuminated in rinoas coma.

He started changing the second he met Rinoa? Why? Because he danced with some hot chick he decided to be a more open person? That makes it worse. Him freaking out when Rinoa slipped into a coma was even stupider. He suddenly ceased to be able to function like a normal human being and became a total moron. It was ridiculous.


i personally believe he one of the best developed characters cause he is very introspective, more then any other ff protaginist. the reason i think the other ff8 characters suffer is cause they spend so much on squall , the others r an after thought!

ff6 had the oppisite scenario, ALMOST EVERYONE, was well developed, but none to a cosmic standard.

i mean only cloud compares to squall in protaginist ff development (aint played ff4 so dont know cecil yet). ff9 and ffx are better gamedx imho, but zidane and tidus dont hold a candle to squall!

believe me, without squall ff8 would have been nothing. ff8 is only 5th fav ff, but a lead character of sheer quality.

In a game with such a little party, no other characters should be an 'after thought'. That's another reason this game was horrid. There should be no 'cosmic standard' of development. Character development is pointless when it's forced and sped through. People dont do 180s like that (most particulary for no reason) and it makes it very bad.

FFVIII WAS nothing. It's a horrific game. The lead character makes it moreso.

[Del Murder]

He started changing the second he met Rinoa? Why? Because he danced with some hot chick he decided to be a more open person?

You underestimate the powers of cute girls on lonely guys.

[DocFrance]

You underestimate the powers of cute girls on lonely guys. Squall wasn't lonely, he just pushed everyone away from him. So you'd expect him to push a girl away, no matter how cute.

And it didn't help that Rinoa immediately started trying to jump his bones the moment she heard the bad news about Seifer.

[TheAbominatrix]

Well Squall was mighty attractive in his little digital world. I'm sure Rinoa was not the first gal to hit on him, even Quistis wanted him and she knew fully how anti-social he was.

Rinoa's a whole nother ballgame, but she can be summed up thusly "My boyfriend is dead? I am so sad." two minutes later "Squall, I love you!"

[Rusty]

Weren't Seifer and Rinoa kinda an on and off couple? And it wasnt a minute later :P Would could right a heap of what ifs..but in the end Squall and Rinoa got together...no matter what Seifer and Rinoa did...thats FF8 for ya so ya gotta live with it :D

And they might of not even been a couple at the time..just really like each other...ya know?

Gosh I sweat I am sounding more like ragin (dont know how to spell his name) everyday :D

EDIT: Use the edit button to add more to your post next time. -Murder

[PhoenixAsh]

TheAbominatrix:

If he had REASON. He had no reason to change. He had always had people being nice to him, and he had had so much time to come out of his shell. It was stupid and trite and sudden. With no real reason.

Not really, he had minimal contact with people through his own choice. The only people he spent time with to any extent were Seifer and Quistis. He didn't hide his emotions about Seifer, and Quistis was immature and pushy.
He gets forced during the game to interact with other people because he's finished school, most people change fairly dramatically around this time from my knowledge.


He started changing the second he met Rinoa? Why? Because he danced with some hot chick he decided to be a more open person? That makes it worse. Him freaking out when Rinoa slipped into a coma was even stupider. He suddenly ceased to be able to function like a normal human being and became a total moron. It was ridiculous.

Hardly, he was thrown into a fight to save the world. He'd always been able to shut off from the world and be spoon fed, now he'd been forced to spend time with people and care about them. He let Ellone go when he was a child and had decided not to care about anyone so not to get hurt, now he didn't have a choice and refused to lose someone a second time.
As for making stupid decisions, well given it was his first love this is hardly a surprise.


In a game with such a little party, no other characters should be an 'after thought'. That's another reason this game was horrid. There should be no 'cosmic standard' of development. Character development is pointless when it's forced and sped through. People dont do 180s like that (most particulary for no reason) and it makes it very bad.

The other characters were poorly developed yes, and Squall's development was predictable, but it was definately not for no reason. As for people not changing, well I don't think that's true at all. Even if it were, how many people do you know that went through what Squall did?

[Breine]

His outfit. Squaresoft totally ripped of the outfit from the Mariachi (El Mariachi, Desperado and Once Upon A Time In Mexico) character! :mad:

[TheAbominatrix]

Weren't Seifer and Rinoa kinda an on and off couple? And it wasnt a minute later :P Would could right a heap of what ifs..but in the end Squall and Rinoa got together...no matter what Seifer and Rinoa did...thats FF8 for ya so ya gotta live with it :D


By the time they got to Galbadia Garden, she was completly over him. Did I say I cared that Squall and Rinoa got together? They both annoyed me, they deserve eachother. My point was that Rinoa is a skank.


Not really, he had minimal contact with people through his own choice. The only people he spent time with to any extent were Seifer and Quistis. He didn't hide his emotions about Seifer, and Quistis was immature and pushy.
He gets forced during the game to interact with other people because he's finished school, most people change fairly dramatically around this time from my knowledge.

Quistis was immature and pushy? Okay... then what was Rinoa? And the rest of the party? Yes, he should have changed, opened up. But not to the extent that he did. Change does happen, but it doesnt happen like that. It made it seemed forced and dumb.


Hardly, he was thrown into a fight to save the world. He'd always been able to shut off from the world and be spoon fed, now he'd been forced to spend time with people and care about them. He let Ellone go when he was a child and had decided not to care about anyone so not to get hurt, now he didn't have a choice and refused to lose someone a second time.
As for making stupid decisions, well given it was his first love this is hardly a surprise.

I was refering to the way he reacted when Rinoa was in a coma, not being confronted with saving the world.

[Flying Mullet]

And there still needs to be a "Squall just plain ol' sucks" poll option.

[TheAbominatrix]

And there still needs to be a "Squall just plain ol' sucks" poll option.

Agreed.

[Cloudane]

The big turnaround, if I remember correctly, was when he visited FH. If you speak to one of the people on the bridge to the town he's a complete ass... Squall realises he sounds just like himself, that it isn't very nice, and seems to change right after that.

[SeeDRankLou]

If he had REASON. He had no reason to change. He had always had people being nice to him, and he had had so much time to come out of his shell. It was stupid and trite and sudden. With no real reason.

Yes, he did always have people being nice to him. And everyone reacted the same to his cold exterior (except Quistis, but she was his instructor, that's different) and backed off. Rinoa was different. Rinoa saw through his cold exterior and decided to treat him as the person she saw and not the cold exterior that he shows. Not to mention she obviously was at least flirting with him if not liked him for a lot of their early journey. I doubt Squall had ever experienced that before. Experiencing love for the first time, especially in the teenage years, can have a very weird effect on a person, especially someone like Squall. And again, in FH when Rinoa is in a comma and they are walking to Esthar, Squall doesn't just open up. He's alone, he doesn't have to hide from anyone because no one is there. So you see this side of Squall that you could only see when he is alone. And I think when he says the words that he says out loud for the first time, they become more true than he thought they were.


Quistis was immature and pushy? Okay... then what was Rinoa? And the rest of the party? Yes, he should have changed, opened up. But not to the extent that he did. Change does happen, but it doesnt happen like that. It made it seemed forced and dumb.

Yes, they were all immature, they were all teenagers. What was different about Rinoa was that she was persistent, to a fault. She didn't back off when Squall was cold, which is something that no one had really done before. And like I said, Squall is a teenager, just out of schooling. Teenagers at this age are very very succeptable to life changes. At this point in their lives, when they are on their own, when they get to make their own decisions, many teenagers go through radical personality changes very very quickly. It's normal. It happened to me. I think the great accomplishment of Squall was that he changed and changed so quickly. He worked through many teenage angst problems and realized that a decision that he made at a younger age was a wrong decision, detrimental to himself and the people around him. The character development that Squall goes through is radical, yes, but normal for a person of his age and surroundings.

And I wish that people would stop thinking of the FH scene as the scene where he just suddendly changes, this is not at all the case. Change would imply that he felt one before and feels a different way now, which is not what happened. Nothing changed about him in that scene, he simply reveals something to the audience that they didn't know before, something that dramatically builds his character and explains many of his actions up to that point. It happens in a lot of stories, especially with the protagonist, and this story is not different. Yes, Squall does go through dramatic change, but not in that scene.

[Kami]

*humps Squall*

[Dr. Casey]

The big turnaround, if I remember correctly, was when he visited FH. If you speak to one of the people on the bridge to the town he's a complete ass... Squall realises he sounds just like himself, that it isn't very nice, and seems to change right after that.

That sounds a little too easy... o_o;

SRL is kicking ass in this topic.

Oh, and what's that one Squall fansite shrine thing? I forget what it was called, but it was great.

[aeris2001x2]

SRL u rock. u got squall completly sussed.

i just wanted to add that squalls cold exterior was his protection from harm. he saw opening up as a threat, to trust others was to put his situation out of his own hands. he states this at least once, disc 2 i think. he only ever wants to rely on himself or he may lose his sense of self.

of course rinoa's ways changed this. i think alot of ppl criticise there romance 4 being too imature. thats the point. it was meant to be a teenage love affair that would lead to a cosmic story line(which it did) and to the birth of ultimecia( i believe she a child, grand child etc or even if R=U. still works). this is a metaphor 4 the cosmic and world changing things going on in squall from a simple girls relationship.

the flaws could start with rinoa. she had stopped seeing seifer the summer before so thats why she seemed not to be affected by news of his "death". i,m not gonna defend the character flaws in all the other characters. but squall's development is faultless.

[Iceglow]

hmm true people change a lot I left high school and rather like squall through out I'd been a cold hearted person seperated from society yet Within a two week holiday the other people my age and one girl in particular persistently involving me even if I refused and not letting me remain seperated got me to mingle and changed me fundamentally I now have a lot more experience with girls and people in general I can go out meet someone for the first time and talk to them whereas before I'd rarely go out and if I did I wouldn't mix with the people so it's highly possible that squall would've changed quickly after FH

[TheAbominatrix]

Basically just rehashing the same points, which really arent that valid. Squall was a poor character, I'll repeat it til I die. Rinoa was a hussy, I'll repeat that too.

[SeeDRankLou]

Well, you didn't leave me much to argue with there so....I'll say it until I die, Squall is awesome and Rinoa was a hussy.

[TasteyPies]

Plus Rinoa is a complete brat and bimbo

and so far 58.33% of you think Squall is uterly uber ( :tongue: Mr.Mimic :tongue: )

[TheAbominatrix]

Plus a complete brat and bimbo

and so far 58.33% of you think he is uterly uber ( :tongue: Mr.Mimic :tongue: )

And that really doesnt mean much. At least 58.33% of the population loves Britney Spears... but she still sucks.

[TasteyPies]

And that really doesnt mean much. At least 58.33% of the population loves Britney Spears... but she still sucks.

Well, she has boobs

Besides i dont think many people like her at all (aside from old men and 9 year old girls)

[celtcknight]

"Hit me baby one more time"

"SIKE" Whats more annoying is that her popularity was finally dying out but then that damn Madonna put her under her wing, so here she is again, not going away but infesting the radio and TV with her madonna style crap the press calls talent. Madonna lost points on this one.

Maybe I should comment on the topic, Rinoa reminds me of a lost exchange student.

[aeris2001x2]

Basically just rehashing the same points, which really arent that valid. Squall was a poor character, I'll repeat it til I die. Rinoa was a hussy, I'll repeat that too.

sounds like a defeatiest post to me. if u have to resort to this then u really are out of ideas.

there was no rehash, it was clarification, reason for his personality change. i,m willing to accept his as poor if u prove it but i see no evidence from you and loads of pro squall evidence from SRL.

though i have to agree, britney sucks. how many oscars did titantic win? that sucks too. popularity is no measure of worth. and i put him as uber but only cause everything else was a negative. he kicks ass but hes no cloud.

[TheAbominatrix]

sounds like a defeatiest post to me. if u have to resort to this then u really are out of ideas.

there was no rehash, it was clarification, reason for his personality change. i,m willing to accept his as poor if u prove it but i see no evidence from you and loads of pro squall evidence from SRL.

though i have to agree, britney sucks. how many oscars did titantic win? that sucks too. popularity is no measure of worth. and i put him as uber but only cause everything else was a negative. he kicks ass but hes no cloud.

How am I the one out of ideas? Lou and you have been posting the same thing over and over, and I'd rather not not spam up a thread by continually arguing the same point over and over again. What's the point of that? I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to agree with me. If you think Squall is a well thought out character, then good for you. Though you may need to put down the Sweet Valley High books and pick up a copy of Catch 22 to learn about proper character development.

Edit: and I wont even get into the Cloud thing. He was certainly better developed than Squall... but have you even played any FF game before VII? Want good character development? Try Terra. Or Cecil. Or Kain.

[aeris2001x2]

yes i have. ff1 is mastered and so is ff6 which is my second fav ff . i havent played ff4 yet, still on ff2 so cant comment there. terra was good but nothing to squall or cloud cause ff6 had so many characters it was hard to give 1 genuis development.

i know about character development. i am well versed in shakespeare, read genuis books like 1984, a clockwork orange, jane eyre etc

we havent said the same thing. we have countered what u said. all u have said is he completly changes for no reason, if we have rehashed it is because u did first. we have countered your points logically with evidence and u have offered nothing but a reliteration of your original point. i,m asking you, tell us why his change is stuiped? WHY is it sudden and unbevliable?

and again, dont treat me like a ff8 loving zealot. it is far down the rankings 4 me and i expect ff4 and ff5 to beat it when i finally get to them. but i,m defending my view easily cause u r offering nothing new for us to attempt to counter which is the nature of a debate.

i,m sorry, i had no intention of starting a flame posting sequence but yeah if u want to call it quits ok but i havent had an ff debate 4 so long :D

[TheAbominatrix]

What you posted is opinion, and the same opinion over and over. Mine is opinion as well, and no matter how many facts both sides have put in, it isnt going to change opinion. I didnt come into this trying to get you guys to change your opinion, and if you came into it trying to change mind, you wont get anywhere.

[Flying Mullet]

aeris2001x2:smash:
TheAbominatrix:smash:

aeris2001x2:lovers:TheAbominatrix

[TheAbominatrix]

aeris2001x2:smash:
TheAbominatrix:smash:

aeris2001x2:lovers:TheAbominatrix

You useless turd. :D

[SeeDRankLou]

How am I the one out of ideas? Lou and you have been posting the same thing over and over, and I'd rather not not spam up a thread by continually arguing the same point over and over again. What's the point of that? I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to agree with me. If you think Squall is a well thought out character, then good for you. Though you may need to put down the Sweet Valley High books and pick up a copy of Catch 22 to learn about proper character development.

Edit: and I wont even get into the Cloud thing. He was certainly better developed than Squall... but have you even played any FF game before VII? Want good character development? Try Terra. Or Cecil. Or Kain.

You know insulting people is not the best way to get your point across. First of all, I have presented different ideas in each of my posts, but I have also reiterated a few of the same ideas to make a point. Second, the things that I say are objective to try and attempt to clarify things that people might not be seeing because Squall's character development is rather incripted in the story and takes into consideration several things that the writer assumes you assume. And third...Catch 22? I kind of see the why you have the opinion you have now. I'd much rather get character development lessons from Dr. Suess than Joseph Heller. The best character development I've seen recently was done by Michael Moore, I don't know I guess that's just my style.

Terra...brilliant. Cecil...decent. Kain....eh. Cloud....very good. Faris (FFV)...note worthy and very good, I don't know if that's in contrast to the kind of simple-ish plot of FFV or not, but still good.

[aeris2001x2]

lol nice one mimic.

exactly, u have finally realised the truth. i get sick of stating the opinion thing and i forget once and u stoop 2 using it on me. but we were having a rational debate that doesnt subscribe to opinion.

[TheAbominatrix]

You know insulting people is not the best way to get your point across. First of all, I have presented different ideas in each of my posts, but I have also reiterated a few of the same ideas to make a point. Second, the things that I say are objective to try and attempt to clarify things that people might not be seeing because Squall's character development is rather incripted in the story and takes into consideration several things that the writer assumes you assume. And third...Catch 22? I kind of see the why you have the opinion you have now. I'd much rather get character development lessons from Dr. Suess than Joseph Heller. The best character development I've seen recently was done by Michael Moore, I don't know I guess that's just my style.

Terra...brilliant. Cecil...decent. Kain....eh. Cloud....very good. Faris (FFV)...note worthy and very good, I don't know if that's in contrast to the kind of simple-ish plot of FFV or not, but still good.

First of all, I didnt intend to insult anyone. Dont accuse me of doing so. Secondly, it's my opinion. I disagree with yours, but I dont insult yours, so please dont insult mine. If you dont like Catch 22 or Joseph Heller, thats fine. I think he's an amazing writer, and I like Micheal Moore very much as well. I think Squall is as 2d as his graphics, and that's that.

[SeeDRankLou]

Though you may need to put down the Sweet Valley High books and pick up a copy of Catch 22 to learn about proper character development.

That insulted me.

And I was a little harsh, Joseph Heller's not that bad, I was just in a weird mood when I wrote my earlier post. And I didn't insult your opinion I insulted your book selection, which I also take back.

[TheAbominatrix]

That insulted me.

And I was a little harsh, Joseph Heller's not that bad, I was just in a weird mood when I wrote my earlier post. And I didn't insult your opinion I insulted your book selection, which I also take back.

It wasnt directed at you, but I do apologize for insulting you. I truly didnt intend to.

And no worries.

[Strider]

His outfit. Squaresoft totally ripped of the outfit from the Mariachi (El Mariachi, Desperado and Once Upon A Time In Mexico) character!

Breine brings up an interesting point, but I'm afraid I have to refute it, because I know. I even examined the differences myself. For one, El Mariachi clothes are truly Mexican-inspired: short overshirt and subtly decorated pants, just like a true mariachi player. Squall, however, wears a bomber jacket and jean-type pants, much like. . . say, the guy from the opening of Bad Dudes. It's difference enough to say that Squall's get-up wasn't inspired from that of Antonio Banderas.

For everyone's consideration, I even put together a visual to explain everything. Enjoy. :D

[celtcknight]

You know what would avoid misunderstandings and misinterpretations... Better emoticons. HAHAAHA

I need a smiley guy made for me with one eyebrow rasied and a jaw drop. Thats usually the mood im in

[DocFrance]

President Deling has been kidnapped by Mexicans.

Are you an apathetic enough dude to rescue the President?

Squall and Seifer are...

APATHETIC DUDES

...whatever.

[aeris2001x2]

lol i was only playing abominmatrix, i just got caught up in my debating passion lol. any thing i said out of turn i apologise 4.

may i ask, have u played ff2? do u think that game is awful too cause of poor character development? (firion, maria, gus, leon) which is so bad even if squall was poor he would seem fantastic to them.

[Flying Mullet]

And happy music played as TheAbominatrix and aeris2001x2 walked into the sunset, hand-in-hand.

THE END

[TheAbominatrix]

lol i was only playing abominmatrix, i just got caught up in my debating passion lol. any thing i said out of turn i apologise 4.

may i ask, have u played ff2? do u think that game is awful too cause of poor character development? (firion, maria, gus, leon) which is so bad even if squall was poor he would seem fantastic to them.

No worries. And yeah, those game had zero development. Squall does have a lot, but it was just poorly done in my opinion.

[TasteyPies]

19-liked
11-disliked

squall is uber winning by 8....so says the poll

Squall isnt underdeveloped so there :D

[Ultima Shadow]

Yeeeea!!!!!!!! Squall rules!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

[aeris2001x2]

lol just finished ff2 and i,d say leon (leonheart) is very poorly done cause it never explains his motives 4 joining the empire(well his power speech, but what made him change so drastically or why he vanished at start etc) or why he leaves at the end. is he better or worse then squall?

abmonmatrix would u say ff1 light warriors were better done then squall even though they never speak because it was never square intention 4 them 2 be well developed?

squall maybe winning, yeah, but cloud could have him anyday lol.

[TheAbominatrix]

19-liked
11-disliked

squall is uber winning by 8....so says the poll

Squall isnt underdeveloped so there :D

Just so ya know, I didnt even vote in that poll, because it didnt have the option I wanted. (Squall sucks)

And Aeris, I cant even really compare the two.

[TasteyPies]

The point of the poll was to find and choose your favorite fault of squall and another option for those who didnt think he had any

A squall sucks option would defeat the whole purpose

[Trumpet Thief]

Squall acted that way, because he didn't want to lose anyone thwe way he lost his parents, matron, or "sis". That's why the flashback always kept coming everytime he slept in bed, along with the corny tune.

Until Rinoa came, and flirted with him everyfive seconds so he could only finally give in, and then, he loses her. (Sorceress)

So Squall had a reason for his personality, and in my opinion, he was a great main character.

[Rusty]

Exactly my thinking! :D

[aeris2001x2]

The point of the poll was to find and choose your favorite fault of squall and another option for those who didnt think he had any

A squall sucks option would defeat the whole purpose

but no option for those like me who thought he kicked ass but still had faults! oh well.

[TheAbominatrix]

The point of the poll was to find and choose your favorite fault of squall and another option for those who didnt think he had any

A squall sucks option would defeat the whole purpose

But it didnt have my favorite, either. I didnt hate him for any of those reasons.

[TasteyPies]

Would you like cheese with your whine?

[Del Murder]

Knock it off, TasteyPies. Everyone has the right to their opinion without having insults thrown at them.

[TasteyPies]

Sorry Del its just whenever someone starts a poll everyone else always complains that it doesnt have the right choices.

From what i can understand its useless for someone to complain about it if its impossible to change unless you start the poll all over again so the 20 some odd people have to vote all over again because someone didn't get the choice they wanted.

The point of the poll was to choose which one of those you disliked about him and charicter development in my mind would fit under attitude.

Let me talk about the choices, In future if i host a poll i will explain the choices more clearly....

Attitude: everything he says and thinks (CHARICTER DEVELOPMENT)

Attacks: his finishing move Renzozuken

Looks:Hair face general body shape

Clothing: His coat pants belt ect.

What are you talking about?: I dont realy think any of those are big enough problems if problems at all to make him a bad charicter.

[TheAbominatrix]

I wasnt complaining, I was merely mentioning that that's why I didnt vote. His 'attitude' was not a problem, nor did it say character development. All I was saying was that it wasnt accurate, because some people (like me) didnt vote because there wasnt an option they liked. I wasnt whining, either.

[TasteyPies]

Want me to set it up again?

[TheAbominatrix]

Course not. Doesnt bother me, I was just mentioning it.

[Rusty]

*Everybody LOVE and PEACE!*

[Kami]

El Mariachi was cool. Like awsome cool.You would shout out "SUGOIIIII!!!" because it was so cool. Squall on the other hand was a different type of cool. Something you wouldn't shout "COOLLL!!!" but like... you would know it was cool. Cool. *stabs herself*

[Az Lionheart]

he is the best characer ff has ever had!

[prince leon]

IMO Squall is one of the best main characters in the FF series. He is my favorite character (obviously) and one I can identify with in many aspects.

[Az Lionheart]

IMO Squall is one of the best main characters in the FF series. He is my favorite character (obviously) and one I can identify with in many aspects.


evry one lissen this guy!
Squall rulzs

[Laguna]

Squall was awesome, but i would say that as FF8 is my all time favourite game..... anyway- if you want to talk about an awful main character (and game), talk about 9

[aeris2001x2]

*shoots laguna*

personally i would say a mediocre main character and better game then ff8.

no, if u want a truely awful main chracter and game, check out ff2's firional. he makes zidane look as deep as a shakespeare character like hamlet.

[Laguna]

ouchicles! that was unecessary. Yeah- i guess FF2 was kinda lame....but zidane just seems built to annoy me!

[Trumpet Thief]

*Many Spoilers*

I'll admit, Squall was a great character, and absolutely one of my favorites, but there are others just as good as him. Although Squall had a story for acting that way, along with a mysterious past, Vivi was a way deeper character, and his character development was darn good too.

First, he questioned life and death, and after seeing the other black mages destroyed by Black Waltz #3, anger took over him, thus making him go into trance.

Later in the game, he starts accepting the fact that everyone had to die, no matter what, and then, in the end, he might have been gone, but still, it left a wonderful story.

Squall and Cloud were actually sort of similar, in different ways. How? Although they were both starting to change, one event would happen that would make them go completely opposite, not letting them hold it back anymore.

In FFVIII it was Rinoa going into a coma; Squall thought that he was going to lose her for sure, and that was when he wanted to do something for her, try to save her, and forgot about isolating himself from everyone else because he thought he would lose them.

In FFVII Cloud changed after Arieth's death. In the emotional scene after Arieth fell to the ground, Cloud seemed compltely different, telling Sephiroth how he loathed him.

'Who cares about your plan now?! Arieth is gone, she won't laugh, she won't cry!" (Something close to that)

In this post I was just trying to say that Squall was a very good character (In my opinion) but the other characters like Vivi, Cloud, and Terre etc. are as good as him.

Just my opinion, don't get so worked up about it!

[Rusty]

Here we are all analyzing squall, he would of hated it if he new what we were doing :P :D

[Trumpet Thief]

The Squall at the beginning of Disc 1 would mind, but the new "Changed" Squall would be overjoyed hearing people analyzing him and dissing him.

Not that I would; I'm just sort of mad of Squall changing. He was a lot better before he met Rinoa. But still, I didn't think she was really bad.

[Rusty]

I reckon he still woulda hated it :P Could you imagine him sitting in a psychiatrist's office?
"Squall, you do have some problems in communication..."

"....Whatever."

Haha :D

[Polaris]

"So, why you are here, someone make it?"

"Whatever....."

"Do you only say whatever?"

"..................."

:D

[Rusty]

"Squall...?"

"...Maybe"

:D

[Polaris]

"So are you in many times depressing"

"Whatever............"

"???????"

[Lanceph]

Heh, I think squall was a good character, I mean, he did have the personality of a dead rodent at one point but he changes for the better. He sometimes reminds me off me so I just have to take his side. Plus I love his hair! I know everyone wants to jump on the "I hate squall" bandwaggon but the game wouldnt be half as good without him!

[Rusty]

"Squall..do you have a comment..?"

".......Maybe..."

:D

[Polaris]

Quistis - He is very shy! :(

Doctor - Well, Squall when you want to come and talk with me! Do it! We can do it, together!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Squall - ........ :eek:

*Outside*

Squall - Why I came here? :mad:

Quistis - Because I said so.... :D

Squall - He was gay!

Quistis - But a good doctor.... I think he liked you! :p

Squall - :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Rusty]

"Sis...sis..Why did you leave me? Only now I have found that the only person who will not abandon me..is a gay doctor who thinks I have serious emotional problems...why me?"

:D

[Polaris]

This is your fate.... you should accept it!
:D

[Rusty]

"You cannot change destiny, but change the way you look at the situation, this could be a good thing!"

"Exactly Squall! Listen to Sis!" --Qusitis

:D

[Polaris]

"Squall - How!? A gay is in love with me!!!!! What can be worst?????"

[m4tt]

If you two want to have a conversation, do so in PM or IM. Not in the thread.

[Polaris]

If you two want to have a conversation, do so in PM or IM. Not in the thread.

Sorry, I was a little enthusiastic!

[Rusty]

We just discussing squall, seeing where the only two with any interests to squalls problem with a gay doctor so be it :D

[Polaris]

Exactly!!!!!

[Rusty]

Exactly!

[m4tt]

I can see that you two are listening really well.