Black Mages suck

[Black Mage FF1]

Yep the Bm's in FF1 blow big time, so discuss :D
Talk about the worst/crappiest/useless character in FF1. AKA the Bm.

[DocFrance]

Talk about the worst/crappiest/useless character in FF1. Yeah, those Black Belts sure do suck :p

[black orb]

>>> FF1 BM rocks..
BTW, Isnt "Black Mage FF1" your nickname? :D

[Black Mage FF1]

Yep it sure is....heh


But I dont see how anyone can like the Bm. Compared to the Rm he is uterly useless. There is no point in taking him instead of a Rm (unless you want Nuke).

[Marble]

And perhaps for the fact that the INT of the Black Mage is twice as large as that of the Red Mage. Thus his magic does twice as much damage. Do you even check stats? :erm:

[Buffy]

Rarely

[Flying Mullet]

Black Belts suck! :aimmad:

[Black Mage FF1]

LOL! Umm no. The amount of INT has nothing to do with magic dmg. Hell a lvl 50 Bm with maxed INT casting Fire will do just the same amount of dmg as a lvl 1 Rm casting Fire.

[Dr Unne]

Compare a BM+WM to a RM. The RM gets moderate fighting skills; totally worthless after, say, the Earth Cave, where the BM has enough magic to use a spell just about every turn for the rest of the game. The RM doesn't get all the level 7 or 8 magic; NUKE, FADE, LIF2, WALL, those are nice to have. RM has higher defense, but mages go in the back row, and they don't get hit that often.

If I want magic, I want as much magic as possible. If your mages are going to be sitting in the back row, there's no reason not to take a BM over an RM, because a BM gets more magic, and magic is the reason you take mages.

All depends on your style and your party though. I prefer specialized characters. A Fighter who only fights, a BM who only uses black magic, a WM who only heals. I don't like watering down my mages by trading some of their magic (their only purpose in the game) for the ability to wield the Fighter's left-over medium-strength weapons. RMs are good if you want a mage who is also a tank. RM/RM/WM/BM party is nice. F/RM/WM/BM is nice. All depends on what your party is. The WM/BM are far from useless though.

[Black Mage FF1]

Compare a BM+WM to a RM. The RM gets moderate fighting skills; totally worthless after, say, the Earth Cave, where the BM has enough magic to use a spell just about every turn for the rest of the game. The RM doesn't get all the level 7 or 8 magic; NUKE, FADE, LIF2, WALL, those are nice to have. RM has higher defense, but mages go in the back row, and they don't get hit that often.

It is far from worthless after the earth cave. His attack is strong and usefull throughout the game (the third best throughout majority of the game). The Bm is not. He doesnt have enough Mp to last every fight. If you go into a cave and start casting spells right off the bat he will not have anymore mp when you finally reach a boss. The Rm however can save up his magic for important fights by attacking. Yes I know that the Rm doesnt get lvl 8 magic, but so what? WOW he doesnt get NUKE! Instead he gets good Hp,defense and attack power. Something a Bm will never get! Personally I rather have all 3 of that than 2 casts of Nuke.



If I want magic, I want as much magic as possible. If your mages are going to be sitting in the back row, there's no reason not to take a BM over an RM, because a BM gets more magic, and magic is the reason you take mages.

Well yeah but you see the Rm can do that too. But once he runs out of magic he can attack and become usefull. Unlike the Bm who attacks for 1 dmg.


All depends on your style and your party though. I prefer specialized characters. A Fighter who only fights, a BM who only uses black magic, a WM who only heals. I don't like watering down my mages by trading some of their magic (their only purpose in the game) for the ability to wield the Fighter's left-over medium-strength weapons. RMs are good if you want a mage who is also a tank. RM/RM/WM/BM party is nice. F/RM/WM/BM is nice. All depends on what your party is. The WM/BM are far from useless though.

Well you can take 2 red mages and make one with all black and one with all white. But like I said I would rather have a character who can actually DO something after his job of casting magic is done. BTW I will admit the Wm is usefull at times but the Bm is utter crap.

[Dr Unne]

He doesnt have enough Mp to last every fight.

A level 12 BM (pretty good time to go after Lich) has 18 spells total. Saving one FIR3 for Lich leaves 17. That's enough magic for me to make it to Lich. Depends how much you wander around, I guess.

WOW he doesnt get NUKE! Instead he gets good Hp,defense and attack power. Something a Bm will never get! Personally I rather have all 3 of that than 2 casts of Nuke.

I'd rather have NUKE, so there you go. BM isn't useless if you value NUKE, and I do, and apparently a lot of other people do too. Not to mention all the other spells a BM gets that an RM doesn't.

Well yeah but you see the Rm can do that too. But once he runs out of magic he can attack and become usefull. Unlike the Bm who attacks for 1 dmg.

I assume you're exaggerating. BM does more than 1 damage for most of the game.

But like I said I would rather have a character who can actually DO something after his job of casting magic is done.

The job is never done. :)

[Black Mage FF1]

He doesnt have enough Mp to last every fight.

A level 12 BM (pretty good time to go after Lich) has 18 spells total. Saving one FIR3 for Lich leaves 17. That's enough magic for me to make it to Lich. Depends how much you wander around, I guess.

Well yeah if you include EVERY spell. But tell me something. Is FIRE1 and ICE1 powerful enough to kill enemies in the Earth cave? I think not. It will take more then just that. Plus a lot of the enemies in the Earth Cave come in groups of 4 or higher. So you would have to use a lot of the lvl 3 spells on them. But what about when you reach Kary in the Fire cave? Thats when the Bm really sucks. All of his spells do terrible dmg on her. Same goes for Tiamat. Yeah he can cast FAST on the Fighters but what then? Cast spells for 20-60 dmg?


I'd rather have NUKE, so there you go. BM isn't useless if you value NUKE, and I do, and apparently a lot of other people do too. Not to mention all the other spells a BM gets that an RM doesn't.

Yeah but every other black spells are crap. Lets not forget that the Rm gets spells that the Bm does not. Like I said before I can stand to miss 2 casts of Nuke.


I assume you're exaggerating. BM does more than 1 damage for most of the game.

Yes I was exaggerating. But still 5 dmg isnt any good. :)

[Rase]

Same goes for Tiamat. Yeah he can cast FAST on the Fighters but what then? Cast spells for 20-60 dmg?

Well, you can have another person trying to exploit his strange weakness to BANE.

But as for the RM vs. BM thing, I have an idea. be like me and bring one of each. A F/TH/RM/BM team has done fine for me.

[Del Murder]

They are useful to attack everyone at once. Other than that, I prefer a Knight or Ninja.

[Black Mage FF1]

Well, you can have another person trying to exploit his strange weakness to BANE.

But as for the RM vs. BM thing, I have an idea. be like me and bring one of each. A F/TH/RM/BM team has done fine for me.

Do you know how rare it is to get bane to work on the 2nd fight? It is pretty high. IIRC it is near 1/125 chance. As for the party suggestion, I would rather use a FT/TH/RM/WM or my favorite party, FT/TH/BB/RM then a FT/TH/RM/BM.

[Sefie1999AD]

I don't think Black Mages suck. They're certainly a cool class. However, they aren't meant for my gaming style, so that's why I don't use them that much. I don't want to waste spells except in really hard fights and bosses, and Black Mage still has relatively little MP so I often hesitate to use his spells. FF1 Origins Easy mode is an exception. There Black Mage is probably the best class ever because he has like 20+ MP for Fire2/Ice2/Lightning2 by the time you reach Marsh Cave. But otherwise, I like saving magic a lot. When I get spell-casting items, such as Zeus Gauntlet, Mage Staff and White/Black Shirt, I always use them with my Black Mage instead of having him spend MP on a spell.

[TasteyPies]

black mages do as much damage as a fighter and a fighter doesnt have to worry about mp or getting his arse kicked

[Rase]

Do you know how rare it is to get bane to work on the 2nd fight? It is pretty high. IIRC it is near 1/125 chance.

Oh, you meant the second fight in the ToF? OKay, my mistake.


As for the party suggestion, I would rather use a FT/TH/RM/WM or my favorite party, FT/TH/BB/RM then a FT/TH/RM/BM.

That's cool. Just a little suggestion. I like the first party you mentioned too. Haven't tried the second one yet.

[Lord Chainsaw]

I don't like black mages.

Give me Fighter/Blackbelt/Whitemage/Redmage over Fighter/Blackbelt/Whitemage/Blackmage any day.

Red mages are great, especially with that one sword you get in the Temple of Fiends (masamune I think)

Now come FFXI, give me a black mage over a crappy red mage any day.

[DJZen]

I thought that was Sasuke's Katana....

Whichever sword it is, you can give it to anyone and make them hit that much harder. I tend to give it to my ninja but that's just 'cause he gets shafted for weapons for the rest of the game.

[cactuar_12]

I love BM's so much I'm trying a BM/BM/BM/BM party right now. I read that by the time I get to Elfland, I'll be a walking death squad. :choc: :shoot:

[Dragonfire]

Well yeah if you include EVERY spell. But tell me something. Is FIRE1 and ICE1 powerful enough to kill enemies in the Earth cave? I think not. It will take more then just that. Plus a lot of the enemies in the Earth Cave come in groups of 4 or higher. So you would have to use a lot of the lvl 3 spells on them. But what about when you reach Kary in the Fire cave? Thats when the Bm really sucks. All of his spells do terrible dmg on her. Same goes for Tiamat. Yeah he can cast FAST on the Fighters but what then? Cast spells for 20-60 dmg?

It Helps. Besides you got to understand that Red Mage is the "jack-of-all-trades but the master of none" He can fight, and cast both magics but he's not as powerful as the others that are masters of these. Thats the point of the stats. As you progress in levels the power of your strikes (physical or magic) get more powerful based on your stats. The Fighter hits harder and for more hits later than the RM does. The Black Mage and White Mage are more effective at casting spells, and hit more often. Also low lvl spells can be good in different places. Try using any of the LIT spells in the Sea Shrine, or ICE spells in the Gurgu(sp?) Volcano.

@Black Mage FF1: I see that you don't really like magic in general. You really only seem to care about raw physical damage. Now if you put 2 Fighters in your party, there is no need for a weak fighting character. Now I do find the mages to be of no use at some parts of the game, but that doesn't mean that they are bad. Most of their spells, especially the later ones, are very useful. Just remember, when it comes to fighting Red Mages are still just that. Mages. Thgey are weak compared to the other fighting classes. It feels like a waste when your Fighter(s) are hiting for like 8 hits equaliing 700-800 dmg, while your RM is hitting for like 200-300. Black Mages plain and simple hit for around the same dmg in magic as the fighters do in physical

[Rei]

I don't like specialized characters in general, especially in this game. I prefer to have a guy who can handle most anything decently, than one who can absolutely destroy only a few types of monsters, or anything up to a point, but is then virtually dead weight. Thus, Black Mages aren't my thing. Red Mages can do fair damage, which is good enough if you pair him with heavy hitters like Fighters or Black Belts. When his magic is ABSOLUTELY needed, he can provide it. A White Mage isn't really needed, because a Red Mage can wield the most important spells, like Cure and Life and whatnot.

The team I use is Fighter, Thief, Black Belt, and Red Mage, though my Thief did pathetic damage most of the game.

[Dragonfire]

late in the game though, red mages don't do much damage at all. After the Earth Cave they do crap damage up until you get the Masamune.

Though I'm not totally against Red Mages. I use them in different parties that I like to try out. Him combined with black mage in the Volcano, Ice Cave, and the Sea Shrine are brutal.

[Rei]

Hm. I remember him doing just as much as my Thief, if not a little more. At any rate, it was a bunch more than any number of Black Mages. And I remember using Black Magic less than, say, ten times in the entire game. Maybe 2 or 3 Bolt somethings on Kraken. So, I figure the total damage my Red Mage dealt is a whole bunch more than I would've had a Black Mage do.

Depends on style, I suppose.

[omnitarian]

Black Mages stink, Red Mages rock. There. I said it.

When you get down to it, all you get in taking a BM is a few more MP, and NUKE.

Pick a Red Mage and you have higher HP, higher defense, decent attack, and a slew of white magic.

The Black Mages higher MP makes very little difference. Before you get the SOANDSO2 casting items, the MP will only be a help in the peninsula and the Earth Cave. Afterwards, I would rather have an extra healer than 1 more charge of LIT3.

As far as level 8 Black Magic is concerned, you get them too late in the game to be of any real use. The sky tower and the temple of fiends don't pose any real problem that could be solved with a NUKE.

As far as accusations of Red Mage becoming obsolete, they are thoroughly baseless. Red Mage easily keeps up to par in magic no matter where you are. He may end up with less Attack Power than fighter, but at least he's on the radar. Black Mage will never do any sufficient physical damage. If you want to count in the Masamune, you must give Red Mage the same liberties.

[Dragonfire]

Like i've said, I'm not really against Red Mage, I just don't think that he is any better than any other class (well except BB of course, but that goes without saying). Go with Fi/Fi/RM/BM, and you won't have any problems. You'll have extrordinary physical damage, awesome black magic, and decent white magic, combined with your potions, you'll be all set.

[desh]

Why does it seem like so many ppl hate the Black Belt? Granted he is pretty worthless up until level 10, but after that he pretty much stays on par with the Fighter/Knight in terms of damage. It's like this: fighter gets new sword, and jumps up in damage, you level up some, and the black belt catches up to fighter in dealing damage, then fighter gets new sword, and the process repeats. But after level 42 or so Black Belt does more damage; I know 42 is a pretty high level, but I know most of you probably level up that high, and seeing your Black Belt/Master dealing out 2k+ damage is really cool.

[Behold the Void]

I like Black Mages, though they can be pretty weak during many normal fights, whenever I need a little magical aid they always come through for me. I have a party consisting of a Fighter, A Red Mage, a White Mage, and a Black Mage, so I have uber magic on my side. The Black Mage and White Mage are great for the specialized magics, whereas the Red Mage is mainly an attacker but also has his own selection of magic to use when needed.

[Rase]

but I know most of you probably level up that high...

Why would you? You can beat it at level 25, level 30 is high enough, unless you suck, in which case you wouldn't have made it that far.

[Freya Coral]

Yep the Bm's in FF1 blow big time, so discuss :D
Talk about the worst/crappiest/useless character in FF1. AKA the Bm.

The Black Mage/Wizard kicks a$$ (all hail the almighty NUKE!)!! The absolute worst character in FF1 is the Black Belt. He doesn't get good until about level 10, which takes ages in the NES version. I'd sooner use a Thief for his fleeing ability.

[Marak]

What it really boils down to for me is the fact that, despite what you may think, NUKE/Flare really doesn't do all that great of damage. Not as much as I feel it should do, at any rate. Then we factor in that a BM doesn't do more damage with his spells than a RM (since stats in FF1 do nothing; everything is based on your current Level). THEN, we factor in all the useful White spells a RM can get that a BM cannot: AFIR, AICE, ALIT, any CURE spell, LIFE, EXIT... I'll trade CURE and LIFE and EXIT for a bunch of instant-kill spells that don't work and NUKE any day.

I want to love the Black Mage, I really do. I love the concept of the faceless, Catclaw-weilding magical badass, I do. But in my experience, the Red Mage adds more to the party overall: better battle skill, better HP, better Defense, better spell selection (sans NUKE).

Which is why the best party in the game remains 3 Fighters and either a Red Mage or White Mage. GG Chaos, we're Level 19.

[Sword Chucks]

I must say, it all boils down to where the game will be easiest. It is easier to begin with the red mage (or two) but in the end, the game is simpler with a black mage (and a white mage). In the beginning, the red mage can learn all the same spells as a black and white mage AND has much better stats. But as time goes on, he begins to weaken. His progress from level to level would look much like a "square root" graph on a calculator. He accels nowhere. He has average stats, average equipability, average magic. At the end of the game (using Kn, Ma, RW, WW), I had him using the Masamune and still doing MUCH less damage than everyone else, except WW, who was healing and stat-enhancing. I mean, for crying out loud, his best weapon is... the Sun Sword? He cant equip anything special. On the other hand, The Knight has the Excalibur, the Ninja has the Sasuke/Katana, the Master can get in about 8 hits and do more damage than a Knight with the Masamune, the Black Wizard has the Cat Claw and insanely powerful magic, and the White Wizard has Thor's Hammer. The Red Wizard is simly an easy start to the game. I would suggest as a party: Fighter(Warrior), Black Belt(Monk), White Mage, and (depending on how you want the difficulty to be in the beginning and end of the game) either the Black Mage or the Red Mage. I would only be the Theif if you are looking for a challenge in the beginning.

[BottledJustice]

Firstly, I'm pleased that Unne rose to the black belt bait, as he sure didn't when I tried the thief approach. Meh.

Secondly, since Unne is right most of the time, I'm gonna back him on this one.

Well, you can have another person trying to exploit his strange weakness to BANE.-Dark_Paladin_Cecil

Alright, I've read all that crap, you know, about Kary being weak against sleep and stun, and Tiamat to Bane, and both are a hoax, I'm afraid to say. By the time you get it to work, You're gonna be dead, LIT3 style.

and Black Mage still has relatively little MP so I often hesitate to use his spells.-Sephiroth1999AD

WRONG!!!!!! If you think the BM has little MP, have you tried playing with a Red mage, for crying out loud? I remember playing a party once
that consisted of FI/RM/WM/BM. Just cause I hadn't really fooled with the Red mage all that much before, and if he sucked too badly, I had the other three that excel at what he attempts to recreate. I made it to Earth Cave before I quit that party. Ok, the most obvious point is how completely inferior he is after you get class change. Even you BM haters can't compare a blast of Nuke to his pitiful Sun Sword, which, in fact, he shouldn't be using until you get Xcalibur. Even before class change he is quite horrible. The thing I most noticed, especially at Elfland, was how expensive he is. You can try to buy him all this great stuff, Silver swords and FIR2, but he can only use one per turn. And what's more, the stats do matter, because he can barely use the sword. I remember trying to kill an ogre with it, and he did it in one hit less than 1 in 15 tries. Do you mean to say I wasted half an hour getting gold for this crap?

Besides you got to understand that Red Mage is the "jack-of-all-trades, but the master of none" -DragonFire

Oh, god, what a piece of wisdom. That should be on a fortune cookie. I LOVE this quote. I completely lost my train of thought...

Oh yes, the MP issue also becomes more pronounced the farther you go. Black Mages increase at least one spell in one level every level up.
My brother played a party similar to mine, with Black Belt instead of the White mage,(Which was crazy after level 10 or so. The fighter/BB combo is wonderful.) and when he got to the Sea Shrine, the Black Mage had 3 more LIT3's than the Red did. The Black destroyed everything while the Red healed. That was about it. And when Kraken rolled around, he didn't even use the Red's LIT3, he used fast on the Belt, and LIT3'd with the Black Mage. Three hits, one kill.

The armor comes to mind. Isn't the best armor for the Red mage the Ice/Fire armor? If you actually decide to get them, which is a pain in the ass, especially the Ice, since who stays in Ice Cave longer than they absolutely must? God only knows how pleased I was when I got out. I suppose you could settle for the Silver, which you can find in a box in Dwarf Cave. Oh boy, what a risk you're taking, going into Dwarf Cave, for some armor! Man, there are no monsters in there! Whoa, free armor, how could can that be! Honestly, how many items do you find without a fight that you can't buy somewhere? And how many of them are not the best in the game, (unless, of course, you're you're using a thief, or god forbid, a Red Mage. :p ).

I suppose I should be boosting opinions of Black mages instead of bashing RMs.

Something to think about at the end of this sermon. Why is it that Phantoms, Eyes, ManCats, Evilmen, and Warmech, all very unpleasant to face, use spells the Black Wizard can use? Huh, it's got me baffled. Really hard magical enemies, and the Black Wizard can use them...

Besides you got to understand that Red Mage is the "jack-of-all-trades, but the master of none" -DragonFire

This deserves a medal, or a Ciddie, or something. Dragonfire, you... are.. something very, very good. Crotchety Geezer good.

[Black Mage FF1]

Its been awhile since I have posted here. Better catch up...


Even you BM haters can't compare a blast of Nuke to his pitiful Sun Sword, which, in fact, he shouldn't be using until you get Xcalibur. Even before class change he is quite horrible.,

Actually I prefer The Sun Sword/More Hp/ Better Defense/ The ability to cast both spell types (most spells) to 1 or 2 casts of Nuke. Actually sometimes in my party I give my Red Mage the Sun Sword and my Knight the Defense. Why? Because the Defense gives the Knight more hit% (The Defense gives 35 compared to the Sun Swords 30). If that extra 5% gives my Knight an extra hit, I give him the Defense and my Red Wiz the Sun. BTW The Sun Sword isnt that Bad.


The thing I most noticed, especially at Elfland, was how expensive he is. You can try to buy him all this great stuff, Silver swords and FIR2, but he can only use one per turn. And what's more, the stats do matter, because he can barely use the sword. I remember trying to kill an ogre with it, and he did it in one hit less than 1 in 15 tries. Do you mean to say I wasted half an hour getting gold for this crap?

Umm the Black Mage is more expensive then the Red Mage. The Black Mage needs all those spells, Bracelets and crap like that. The Red Mage only needs the Chain Mail, Short Sword and a few spells and he is good to go. No need to buy the Silver sword right away. You will gain enough money for it after the marsh cave or later on.



The armor comes to mind. Isn't the best armor for the Red mage the Ice/Fire armor? If you actually decide to get them, which is a pain in the ass, especially the Ice, since who stays in Ice Cave longer than they absolutely must? God only knows how pleased I was when I got out.

No actually the Red Mage/RW cannot equip the Ice or Flame armor. Their best armor is the Opal Bracelet.


Something to think about at the end of this sermon. Why is it that Phantoms, Eyes, ManCats, Evilmen, and Warmech, all very unpleasant to face, use spells the Black Wizard can use? Huh, it's got me baffled. Really hard magical enemies, and the Black Wizard can use them...

Yes and notice how mostly all of those spells are useless. Like XXXX, Quake, Stun,Brak. OH MY! What a great list of spells! Why I wish every class can use those! Really the only useful spell that Bw has that the Rw doesnt is Nuke. Even that isnt that great.

[BottledJustice]

Ok, I admit that that last enemy spell thingee was weak, but Unne left me out to dry here.

Ummm... The Black Wizard can equip the Opal Bracelet, too. I suppose with the gauntlets and such, the Red Mage will absorb more, but his evade is also weakened.

As for buying the bracelets in Elfland, they are a waste of money. You can find one in Marsh Cave. His evade is so high it doesn't really matter too much anyway, especially when on the back row. Besides, you can get the other bracelet in Melmond.

This topic has just about been exhausted. But I must say, I've never had a game where I've said, "Man, I wish I took a Red Mage!" It's usually something along the lines of, "Man, I wish I had the White/Black Mage!" You anticipate for the lack of balance while choosing your party. I suppose you can throw in a Red Mage, but I think it really comes down to how you play and what you like. We're so biased at this site. So stubborn...

[Palindrome]

You all have your opinions and i respect everyone of them. However, opinions differ from person to person. Let me tell you how it IS. Some one said earlier that blackbelt sucked and i just want to say while your fighter is fumbling with his sword my black belt is scoring 20+ hits and its critical doing about 800-900 dmg. Next in the line up is a red mage. Not because he is better than anyone. He is there to give a little extra magic boost my my group while still taking hits so the usefull characters can work unhindered. Then there is white mage for her healing, and protective powers, and black mage just blows away everything that stands in his way. I will have to admit that black mages aren't much better than red mages. However, Black Wizards are death incarnate and they are the coolest looking.

[Freya Coral]

Alright, I've read all that crap, you know, about Kary being weak against sleep and stun, and Tiamat to Bane, and both are a hoax, I'm afraid to say. By the time you get it to work, You're gonna be dead, LIT3 style.

I used Bane against Tiamat the last time I played, and it worked. :tongue:

[UltimateSpamGrover]

Yep the Bm's in FF1 blow big time, so discuss :D
Talk about the worst/crappiest/useless character in FF1. AKA the Bm.

Black Mages suck, and Gigli was the best movie to ever come out

[Thornaxe Hammerstone]

The black mage is tied with the white mage for utility, the only spells they have over the RM are NUKE and LIF2 which are paltry conpensations for both magics and a half decent def/atk rating.

[Triple T]

Red Mages are really bad! Near the end, they get weak(worthless equipment and low strength stats) and bad spells(only up to level 5 and not even all of them for those levels and bad magic stat), so I tend to stay away from Red Mages.

[Dunbar]

I went through the game extremely easily with2 warriors and 2 red mages, and the RM always attacked for alot. Masamune, X-CAL, were for the warriors, and Sunblade(dont really remember whats its called) and Vorpal sword (the green one) were for the RM. The only class I found useless was the BM cuz the only magic I used was cure/life for the RM, and Haste/Saber.

I tried this party once, and it rocked. RM/RM is better than WM/BM I think, hands down. The two RMs do about the same damage as a fighter...so it's like having 3 fighters in your party. The same cannot be said for a WM/BM. RM and WM have about the same hps, and have the same armor at the end of the game, though RM have better armor earlier on....but the RM has far better hps than a BM, and much better survivability in the early game.

As far as spells go, you don't need to use as many spells when you can attack for 1/2 fighter damage or so. Seeing as fighters kill most things in one attack, you can kill 3 things in each round with F/F/RM/RM. When you get attacked by a lot of critters, both mages have access to the elemental magics. Since I can fight through most battles easily, I don't need much black magic, and still have pleanty for healing. And being able to fast both fighters in one round is awesome...can't do that with BM/WM. You also have the option to double up on healing. Not an issue in the late late game when WM has cure4, but earlier on it can be useful.

In fact, the only times I missed having one of the pure mages is early on against the stupid undead that can paralyze you. Then I was missing WM and Harm, which is a great spell.

Of course, part of my feelings on this is due to my playstyle, I'm sure. I hate running...I generally like to fight about 95% of the battles I face. Because of that, I just don't have enough magic with BM to get very far; the reliability of RM's fighting damage is a good thing, not to mention his greater survivability compared with BM.

[Seraf]

The RedMage cannot learn higher Lv Spells and he has lower MP than the BM does at a high lv..yeah the RDM has Melee, Whoopie Doo! He sucks at it! Black Mage is my favorite class in FFI other than the White Mage.

[Black Mage FF1]

The RedMage cannot learn higher Lv Spells and he has lower MP than the BM does at a high lv..yeah the RDM has Melee, Whoopie Doo! He sucks at it! Black Mage is my favorite class in FFI other than the White Mage.


Its been awhile since anyone has posted on this. Anyway


Like I have said again and again. The higher level spells that the Bm can learn that the Rm cannot learn ARE NOT THAT GREAT. They are highly overrated. OMG NO NUKE? NO SABER? A SPELL THAT DOES NOT WORK? What a loss. The Rm amount of mp is not an issue at all. Yeah Bm gets a little more mp than the Rm but if you have a good party then the amount of mp the Rm has is more then enough. Oh and the Rm does not suck at melee. He has the 3rd best throughout the whole game.

Wm and Bm your favorite class!?! AHAHAHAHA! Why is that? You like weak characters who sit in just about every battle doing nothing? At least when the Rm waits for his spells to be needed (Like healing), he can attack and contribute to damage. What does the Wm do when no one needs to be healed? Sit and lose hp? Attack for terrible damage? Same goes for Bm he sucks up so much heal spells/potions. The only thing he can do is casts spells but once his mp is all up(which happens very fast) than what?

Really I wonder what is so great about the Wm and Bm.....

[feioncastor]

There is no class that sucks. They all have their ups and downs, so to say that one is better than another isn't really fair. There may be some that you're better with using, but that doesn't make him better.

For example, I knew a guy who had a team of all fighters, and he got by fine. It was easy as heck for him. I prefer to have a Fighter, BB, BM, and WM. I tried the all fighters thing, and it didn't work for me.

The only classes that I'll say that I dislike are the thief (not as much hp/phy def as Fighter) and the Red Mage. The Red Mage's fighting ability is less than that of the Fighter, and his magic ability is less than that of the white or black mage, so he's a mutt of sorts, and I'd prefer the purebred.

Feion

[strawberryman]

You forgot one thing, poindexter. RED MAGES CAN ONLY USE UP TO LEVEL 5 MAGIC! Sure they have so-called 'better' attack, but so what? They can only hit half as hard as half as hard as the fighter. (or 1/4. kinda confusing :eek: ) Sure he's kind of good in the beginning, but after that halfpoint in the game, they suck!
Second, black mages are the best. :D As they have Nuke. :tongue:
and if this doesn't sway you then you're just being stubborn.

and plus, when you're red mage can only heal so much because he only has cure, then you're in trouble.

[Black Mage FF1]

You forgot one thing, poindexter. RED MAGES CAN ONLY USE UP TO LEVEL 5 MAGIC! Sure they have so-called 'better' attack, but so what? They can only hit half as hard as half as hard as the fighter. (or 1/4. kinda confusing :eek: ) Sure he's kind of good in the beginning, but after that halfpoint in the game, they suck!
Second, black mages are the best. :D As they have Nuke. :tongue:
and if this doesn't sway you then you're just being stubborn.

and plus, when you're red mage can only heal so much because he only has cure, then you're in trouble.


Oh yes and you too forgot something, Black Mages cannot learn NUKE! Only Black Wizards can!

When I say Red Mages are better then Black Mages, I am also saying that RW are better then BW. And the Rw can learn up to level 7 magic. Which for experienced players like me it is good enough. Wow he doesnt get to cast 1 or 2 casts of Nuke at the end of the game. He is missing a lot[/Sarcasm]

The Red Mages attack is more like only half of the fighters. Not 1/4. Unlike the Bm whose attack is like 1/1000 of the fighters.

Like I said if you have a good party then there is no need to cast Cure every turn.

[abrojtm]

Good thing they fixed all of these problems in DoS.

-Magic Damage is actually based on defence! Yay!
-Haste (FAST) is really useful.
-MP are no longer divided between levels.

[Zante]

I like BMs. Especialy in the beggining, I find them prety usefull. So what if he doesn't have high attack, he is supposed to cast magic after all.

Also, if you say that BMs suck because RMs are better, you could also say that all the other clases suck because Fighters are better. I think all the classes are good for something else, and some class being better doesn't make the others worse.

[Black Mage FF1]

I like BMs. Especialy in the beggining, I find them prety usefull. So what if he doesn't have high attack, he is supposed to cast magic after all.

Yeah the Bm whole purpose is to cast magic but what does he do when he runs out of magic? Unless you are like level 20 on the marsh cave-Earth cave he runs out very fast. So what does he do after that? Nothing excepts waste heal potions and take up a valuable stop. Thats why the Red Mage is so much better. You can save his magic by attacking until you really need it. THen when he runs out, he can attack again and contribute to the fight. You cant say the same thing about the Bm.


Also, if you say that BMs suck because RMs are better, you could also say that all the other clases suck because Fighters are better. I think all the classes are good for something else, and some class being better doesn't make the others worse.

Yep I do think the others suck compared to a fighter. But I still like them. Except Wm of course. They can at least contribute to more then 5 battles.

[omnitarian]

Well, yes, it would be stupid to say that Red Mages suck because Fighters are better, but that's because the two have very distinct abilities.

Black Mage's ability is to use black magic. Red Mage essentially has the same ability, but he also white magic and fair physical stats.

Black magic + NUKE < black magic + white magic + worthwhile Att. & Def. stats.

[Seraf]

Its been awhile since anyone has posted on this. Anyway


Like I have said again and again. The higher level spells that the Bm can learn that the Rm cannot learn ARE NOT THAT GREAT. They are highly overrated. OMG NO NUKE? NO SABER? A SPELL THAT DOES NOT WORK? What a loss. The Rm amount of mp is not an issue at all. Yeah Bm gets a little more mp than the Rm but if you have a good party then the amount of mp the Rm has is more then enough. Oh and the Rm does not suck at melee. He has the 3rd best throughout the whole game.

Wm and Bm your favorite class!?! AHAHAHAHA! Why is that? You like weak characters who sit in just about every battle doing nothing? At least when the Rm waits for his spells to be needed (Like healing), he can attack and contribute to damage. What does the Wm do when no one needs to be healed? Sit and lose hp? Attack for terrible damage? Same goes for Bm he sucks up so much heal spells/potions. The only thing he can do is casts spells but once his mp is all up(which happens very fast) than what?

Really I wonder what is so great about the Wm and Bm.....

I beat the game with a Black Wizard and a White Wizard to be exact. My Black Wizard defeated Chaos and my WhZ constantly healed my party(Wether they were fully healed or not, because Chaos would attack them anyways and my White Wizard seemed to heal after he attacked every round). My Warriors were doing little to no damage while my Black Wizard was owning Chaos's ass. Not once did my White Wizard or Black Wizard die, those Knights seemed to like to die a lot though. I ended up having my Knights use Ethers on my Wizards while they Healed / Attacked Chaos. (Note that I had exactly 99 Ethers when I started the fight with Chaos and had 52 when I finished.)

So how about you shut the hell up, ok? ;) :love:

[Black Mage FF1]

I beat the game with a Black Wizard and a White Wizard to be exact. My Black Wizard defeated Chaos and my WhZ constantly healed my party(Wether they were fully healed or not, because Chaos would attack them anyways and my White Wizard seemed to heal after he attacked every round). My Warriors were doing little to no damage while my Black Wizard was owning Chaos's ass. Not once did my White Wizard or Black Wizard die, those Knights seemed to like to die a lot though. I ended up having my Knights use Ethers on my Wizards while they Healed / Attacked Chaos. (Note that I had exactly 99 Ethers when I started the fight with Chaos and had 52 when I finished.)

So how about you shut the hell up, ok? ;) :love:

1. All of my posts are over the Origins and NES version not the crappy DoS version.

2. If your Knight is taking little to no damage you must not be using him right. Next time try casting Haste/Steel and equip him with a powerful sword (whatever the best one is in DoS)

3. If your Knight (who has like 300 + more HP and defense then the Bm and Wm) is dying more then them then you must have like no armor on him. Hell I cant remember the last time my Knight ever died in a battle (with exception of Instant death attacks). Even with a solo Knight at level 28 I beat CHAOS without dying on the origins version and NES.

[feioncastor]

1. All of my posts are over the Origins and NES version not the crappy DoS version.

Thank you for saying this. DoS is way too easy, and BM/BW are way more useful in DoS because the MP system is changed. In the original one, by the time you went to fight Chaos, you really only have about 2 or 3 nukes that you can cast without having to leave and go to an inn or use a house. And the difference in damage is insane in the NES version. It's crazy because you'll cast it on a group of 4 enemies, all the same guys, and it will hurt one of them for 400 damage and one of them for 70. Crazy. Not too useful.

But I do like the BMs HAST and TMPR spells that you can use to make your fighter hit even harder. I don't know for sure if RM/RWs can use these spells too, but even if they can, I'd still rather use a BM/BW for tradition's sake.


The absolute worst character in FF1 is the Black Belt. He doesn't get good until about level 10, which takes ages in the NES version. I'd sooner use a Thief for his fleeing ability.
I don't know what version you're referencing, but I own all 3 and I can say that the BB hits harder than any other class, once you turn him into master. He can do more damage with his attack than the BM do with Nuke, or the fighter can do with attack, and certainly more than the Ninja. Seriously, in the original, I've fought chaos having only my Master attack him, and having other 3 use items that don't do anything every round, and Chaos was dead in 4 hits. (NES version)



Feion

[omnitarian]

Red Mage can indeed use FAST and TMPR. They're pretty much his best options in boss fights. ;)

And yes, Master is totally awesome against Chaos. It's almost unfair.

[Holycow81]

Why does it seem like so many ppl hate the Black Belt? Granted he is pretty worthless up until level 10, but after that he pretty much stays on par with the Fighter/Knight in terms of damage. It's like this: fighter gets new sword, and jumps up in damage, you level up some, and the black belt catches up to fighter in dealing damage, then fighter gets new sword, and the process repeats. But after level 42 or so Black Belt does more damage; I know 42 is a pretty high level, but I know most of you probably level up that high, and seeing your Black Belt/Master dealing out 2k+ damage is really cool.
True, but, unless you have other, better characters to back them up, they won't make it far. I once wondered why people hated them too, but then I figured "Hey, why not try a BB/BB/BB/BB game?" Still, they DO have their upsides.

About Black Mages, though... their actually my favourite class, but if you don't entirely love magic, then I can understand why one might hate them... they don't get terribly strong until aroung Elfland, when you get FIR2, LIT2, and ICE2, at which point it becomes unstoppable, if backed up by other characters. My favourite party is FI/FI/WM/BM.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Ah now it is time for THE JACKEL'S view on thing.

The best party is.... Fighter/dead/dead/dead, yes it really is. Think it's crazy, try it! When he becomes knight and get's those low white magic, impossible to lose, plus you get 4x EXP, so it's all good.

My old friend always said fighter/fighter/redmage/redmage which is actually pretty good, but too expensive if you ask me.

Now as for the black mage controversy, I think it depends on which version you play. FFI NES yeah he's not all that important, though he does become a good fighter with the catclaw. I usually use him though because he saves time alot against those large groups of enemies, and the redmage tends to tick me off sometimes. Oh, and why would you give him the masamune? Any person can be a good fighter with the masamune, so you know what that means, WHITE MAGE. Give the white mage the masamune, because you don't need to heal EVERY turn, and he/she kicks some serious arse.

Oh and for all you people who say the black belt suck, you're dumb. He's actually the best attacker, and cheap, so why complain. I bet 4 black belts would be an awesome party if you put in the effort early. Just think, NO WEAPONS, and the heal staff later would be good in combo with potions, cause in truth people, magic wasn't all that useful in FFI NES.

Now FF DoS is a completely different story. Using actual MP, I can't say how many times the Black mage has helped. Fighting 9 undead people, my fighter is paralyzed, then my black belt, damn I'm screwed, FIRA all dead. It's quite nice. And with all the MP he does get over a redmage in that version, yeah it's better. And don't go saying I'm an idiot and don't appreciate the oldies, because I do and FFI NES was the first game I ever played myself, and I love going back and playing with all sorts of parties. Which makes me think, anyone ever beat it with one black belt?

THE JACKEL

[JuandiegoMoogleLord]

I SIMPLY LOVE ALL MAGE CLASSES. MY FAVORITE PARTY IS FH/RM/WM/BM AND ITS COOL TO PLAY THAT WAY. MAGIC ALWAYS HAS THE ADVANTAGE OF ELEMENTAL WEAKNESSES AND ALSO THE POSIBILITY TO DELIVER NON ELEMENTAL ATTACKS AND HEAL/REVIVE. USING THAT PARTY I HAVE FINISHED ALL THE NES GAME WITHOUT DYING ONCE OR SAVING. TO USE ONLY FIGHTERS IS DAMN BORING... KUPO, YOU REDUCE THE GAME TO PRESSING A BUTTON CONTINOUSLY. MAGIC IS GREAT, AND MP'S SHOULDNT BE A PROBLEM IF YOU ARE A SMART USER. IF YOU THINK THAT MAGIC IS WEAK, THEN I SUSPECT YOU JUST ARE NOT A WISE MP ECONOMIST. HOWEVER, RED MAGES LOOK THE COOLEST AND ARE INDEED MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS.