Compare XI to the rest of the series

[Clyde Arronway]

I haven't played this, so this is mostly a questioning thread, but doesn't this game kind of destroy everything FF stands for? how can there be a developed plot? and how can this game be played eternally for posterity's sake if it's only online?
And here's my other question. What's with the retro fad? Why are the games going back to the class system of old? It's a good system, I wish there was more of it, but why sacrafice the plots?

[Bahamut2000X]

Obviously you have yet to play FFXI. As for a plot, it has one, it's not as deep as past games, but still entertaining and there none the less. And of course way better than any plot other online games attempt. The plot though, get's developed by doing the different missions of the game, at first the missions (some of the early ones at least) are kind of uninvolving to the plot, but as you hit mission 6 the start of the over all plot begins and as you progress after mission 6 the plot get's deeper and deeper. Personally I have yet to get that far in the missions, I'm only up to 7, but so far the plot seems to be getting nice.

As for the game going back to the class system. I like it, it's way better than any other system they might of tried. Sure it has some down points, but what system doesn't? Besides the class system in FFXI beats most other class systems in other game, in this one your ALLOWED to switch classes as you wish, in most other online games you have to delete your guy and start a new one if you want to play/try a new class.

[Lionx]

It only destroys FF if you choose to see and make it that way. This FF is like no other. You are now playing with other people and behind every sprite except the NPC, is a person, nice or bad. You have to remember everything is balanced, class and all, its unique and remember, its not just your game, but the other people that log on it too.

THere is an developed plot, seeing the ShadowLord in Mission 10 makes me wanna play more to fight him and play expansion story driven missions. I am very excited because no other MMO has ever captured any story element in a major way. Cutscenes are never before seen in MMOs, are seen here. If you dont play any MMO, try Ragnarok Online and try it out. Its not the same as FFXI, but it does show some elements on how MMO generally work.

This game is also being continually refined and added more things into it every now and then. The tech support is very good compared to other games that only fix things and add things when other MMOs appear. FFXI also is the one that in a few months outsold EQ in number of subscriptions.

There is a plot if you choose to accept it, and why not retro? FF is revolved around the job system except in FFVII and FFVIII, where everyone is a carbon copy of one another. The other FFs are all jobish, and i think that gives more individualtiy.

This game is really great, but i will say its not for everyone. If you are not interested in this game it sno big lost, you still have FFCC, FFX-2 and FFXII in the near future.

[Citizen Bleys]

How can you compare it to the rest of the series? No two FFs are alike, other than re-used spells, the appearance of Cid in every game since FF2, and chocobos in every game since FF3? Each one's a unique, stand-alone marvel. As is FFXI.

[HOOTERS]

Instead of calling it "Final Fantasy IX" they should have just called it "BIG ASS ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME YOU KNOW LIKE THE ONES WHERE YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY OH YEAH AND IT HAS CHOCOBOS" and then maybe so many people wouldn't have complained.

[Ichy]

I honestly can't figure out why anyone could be mislead unless they chose to remain misinformed, inwhich case they're not mislead at all, just ignorant. There's a disclaimer on the box, on the website, even in the TV commercials saying that there are monthly charges to play the game, as well as about a billion "Is it free? How much per month? Is there offline? blah blah blah" forum threads all over the internet. Couple that with the fact that the info has been out there since the JP release, long before NA, and even being a proverbial total idiot barely qualifies as an excuse not to know.

Simply put, people just want to whine and get attention. Personally, if they really hate the monthly charge factor that much, I feel they should stop trying to piss in everyone else's cereal about it and just go play other FF games. As for the rest of us, who appreciate a virtually bug-free gaming environment consisting of a massive on-line community, huge content, gorgeous visuals and audio, and a steady stream of improvements and content upgrades... yeah, 12 or 13 bucks (USD) a month is next to nothing compared to what we feel we're recieving in return.

Just to stay on topic, as they've all stated above, there is a story and it's a damn good one. The reason you may not hear much about it too often is because the game is so tremendously non-linear that everything else contained within the sheer awe inspiring volume of other things to do besides progress the story for your character is usually what everyone wants to discuss. As for the job system, it's a wonderful thing. I can be anything at anytime and adapt to all situations based on how much time and effort I put into the careers I've chosen to develop for my character :)

[Lionx]

Instead of calling it "Final Fantasy IX" they should have just called it "BIG ASS ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME YOU KNOW LIKE THE ONES WHERE YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY OH YEAH AND IT HAS CHOCOBOS" and then maybe so many people wouldn't have complained.


Its FFXI not FFIX :p Get it straight first. Yea again its just whining, it doesnt screw anything up and theres tons of info everywhere. If you dont like it or want to play it thats up to you, you dont have to. Theres tons of other FFs out there.

[Citizen Bleys]

Its FFXI not FFIX

It's Hoot, he doesn't care. :p

[Clyde Arronway]

Warning, probably LOTS of spoilers involved:

Yes but all the FF's have one underlying theme: finalizing a previous defeat of evil or stopping an evil from resurging. With I, it was an actual temporal loop. II and III have more subtle themes, but stopping a problem from deep in the past from happening again runs through them, such as III's stopping the darkness from surging again like light had in the past. IV stopps the lunarian rebel from trying to take over earth again, V stops the last weapon on an evil euno from destroying everything and destroying him rather than resealing him. VI is obvious, it's loop is explicitly told in the prologue. VII is clear cut: stop jenova from destroying man like he killed the Cetera. VIII has more time loop stuff, and IX has one more of those less pronounced themes. Is this theme present in XI? that's what makes it an FF or not. I am also concerned still on how it will keep for posterity if it is an online game. The online service can't last forever, then the game is dead, is it not? And one trivial question. The normal battle theme in FF's I - VI and IX have all been varients on the same basic theme. Is there such a varient music in XI, or did it go the way of VII and VIII?

[Citizen Bleys]

(Somehow, no spoilers)

Yeah, there is something like that: There was a war initiated in the recent past by the beastmen, which was won by a union of the nations of Bastok, San d'Oria, Windurst, and Jeuno, but now the beastmen are beginning to surface again.

If you watch the intro movie, it shows scenes from that war--a couple of kids running from some orcs that are invading a city (Looks like Bastok to me), and one of the kids, all grown up now, returns to his hometown as an adventurer.

[Garland]

The battle music is more orchestral in feel, but it does have a rhythm similar to other FF battle themes. Not a literal translation like 1-6 and 9, but a more liberal interpretation like 7,8 and 10. Even so, you'd guess it was an FF battle theme if you heard it. Actually, all the battle themes sound like boss battle themes. I like them.

[HOOTERS]

Actually the monthly charge had nothing to do with my point at all, I was just saying that they shouldn't have called it Final Fantasy, and then everybody wouldn't have complained that it had nothing to do with Final Fantasy even though it does have things to do with Final Fantasy, like chocobos and swords and fighting the chocobos with swords.

And I was talking about FFIX. I know this isn't the right forum and FFIX isn't a MMORPG but hey, I'm a rebel. :shifty:

[Lionx]

Yea one of the underlaying themes is to stop the resurgance of evil in the land. You really have to find a site that shows it because that is the main plot and why things in that world, are that way. FFXI is in a war torn land, and people are just recovering from the Great War with many lives lost. You will see many scars from that war from the NPCs you talk to. Everything is well planned out, even the PvP thing has cutscences on how it came to be, it wasnt just there after the last patch.

And no its not Bastok, its none of the cities that are there. If you do mission 11 you would get an item that relates to the city, thats all i am saying.

And another thing, do you know how old is EQ(Everquest)? Its super old but it still has like 400,000 or so subscriptions i think. If soemthing as bad serviced as EQ can last that long, i doubt that this game would fall so quick.

[Citizen Bleys]

The thing about EverCrack is that it was the first MMORPG, people didn't know what they were getting into.

In FFXI-land, everybody knows what an MMORPG is and won't buy it if they don't have the time to get hooked.

[Taru-Waru]

One of the best things about FFXI that you don't get in other FF games is the ability to create your own storylines, if you can fall in with roleplayers. Right now, I'm in an awesome RP linkshell on Quetzalcoatl that has a story arc involving possession by the essence of the Shadow Lord, and Chosen Summoners who are destined to save Vana'Diel as they have countless times in the past. (See: Vana'Diel Tribune Vol.22, "And His Name Was Fenrir!", re: Karaha-Baruha, Hero of Windurst) Talk about awesome! I mean, seriously... How many times in an FF game have you wanted to have your character say what you'd really like them to say?

[Kalel]

FFXI is an online game and a great one at that. But it is FF: Good storyline, Great Gameplay, great character jobs, awesome graphics and Fun to play.

None of the FFs had same story or any way similar other than some had identical battles systems or characters. But they all had something other RPGS didnt have: Style, characters you can get into, storys that blew you mind and top notch innovation. IN FFXI you have all that plus you get to play with others. And if you dont like your character its your fault cause you made him.

Game is worthy to be called FF. Square had no choice to make it online only; cause no would play online than. And second it had to be called Final Fantasy or wont make as much money and thats a fact! People stick with series game cause they know what they put out is good or bad. And No FF game was ever bad. But square did make bad games. So if it had the FF name missing it wouldnt be as popular.

Plus its their game not ours they can name it whatever they like, and if you buy it who can blame for that? The game is top notch. By the way its my favorite game in the series cause you can do alot more with it.

[Clyde Arronway]

None of the FFs had same story or any way similar other than some had identical battles systems or characters ... Plus its their game not ours they can name it whatever they like, and if you buy it who can blame for that?

Two minor disputes with that post. Just hear me out.
Firstly I already explained that FF I - X all have the same basic premise. The story might not be the same but the basic Idea was.

Secondly, why do so many people in the world believe that creators have the right to make whatever they want. I'm not directly aiming this at you, Kalel, this is just a good time to explain this little irk of mine.
This game isn't being written so that the programmers can hang somthing on the wall and sit back in 20 years and say, "Wasn't I great for writing that game" It's directly made for us. Programmers have a responsibility to us, it's not their game at all. We pay them to make us a good game, It is really our posession. Their responsibilty is to us first.

[Lionx]

In FFXI-land, everybody knows what an MMORPG is and won't buy it if they don't have the time to get hooked.

Alot of new kids bought this game because of FF on it, so i am pretty sure its not becaue they know its an MMO and way different league than the other FFs.

[Rostum]

Secondly, why do so many people in the world believe that creators have the right to make whatever they want. I'm not directly aiming this at you, Kalel, this is just a good time to explain this little irk of mine.
This game isn't being written so that the programmers can hang somthing on the wall and sit back in 20 years and say, "Wasn't I great for writing that game" It's directly made for us. Programmers have a responsibility to us, it's not their game at all. We pay them to make us a good game, It is really our posession. Their responsibilty is to us first.

They DO have a right to make whatever they want, their work isn't as limited as you think. They wouldn't just discontinue a game or scrap an idea because 'some' people aren't going to like it or will complain about monthly fees. They think on a larger scale, and I can tell you... there's been ALOT of members in FFXI, so what makes them think that they'd want to scrap it now because it's not "true to FF"?

No MMORPG is going to be true to FF, even if FFVII was made as a MMORPG, it would be different. Basically if you don't like MMORPG's then don't play it! It does have similarities but it's not the same as a whole.

[Clyde Arronway]

Fine, they have followers. But this is no longer aimed at XI, XI's just getting the brunt of the argument. A producer can't just make whatever he wants for the sake of making it, when you sell somthing you must must must be responsible to your clients or consumers.

[Rostum]

That's the thing, we ARE here to discuss FFXI and it's similarities from other FF games. I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle.

[Lionx]

And they are responsible, try looking at EverQuest and their tech support team, they do NOTHING to fix issues unless another MMO threatens them. FFXI constantly fixes known problems and add misc things, and another expansion is comming out with 40 new areas this fall too. How are they not being responsible to the people that bought and pay for this? Just because you dont like this version of FF doenst mean that they arent being responsible. Some ppl dont like FFX-2 for instance, but some people, however do, and they cant force you to like the games they put out. And for those of them that do like the games, they are responsible for THEM, not for those that dont have an interest of any sort and rather play some other game than this. Leave the interest building to the ads, the game developers dont do that.

[Mort]

500,000 users and still increaing. looks like square have an idea what people want ;)

[Clyde Arronway]

I don't know what other angle to look at this from. I don't want to come off as agressive to you, omecle, but I think I kinda would have some knowledge of what angle to look at this from seeing as I started this thread and defined how it was first being compared to other ff's. But the point of my question is, has square remained true to it's responsibilities to it's previous consumers? Is this the kind of game that square has always produced as an ff. Have they held up their standards or have they let down the consumers that bought all their games and that have paid square's payroll for the last 15 years? 500,000 users out of about 300,000,000 isn't much. Give me ten thousand dollars and I can have an addicitve game of crap made and put on the internet, and I'd have 1M players by the end of the week. Is it addictive, or is it good? are most of these 500,000 honored square clientele, or did they scrape up half a million bums off the street? Is this a break of tradition or are they upholding their standards

[Lionx]

You obviously dont know alot about the subscriptions of MMOs do you?

Link to Subscriptions on the MMORPG world (http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html)

The thing is FFs are all different in their own way, this one is online and is an MMORPG, so you have to compare it MMORPG standards, comparing online and offline games are red and blue, its not comparable because they are different genres despite both having RPG in it.

Has Square remained true? If its giving you a game that blows other MMOs out of the picture with a REAL storyline and cutscences and numerous things to do, then yes they have. If its updating and fixing bugs that appear then yes they do(this is major, EQ never does it).

Is this game the same as other FFs in similarity? Some ways yes, with spell names and all, but again this is primarily an MMORPG, not RPG so this is completely different in terms of gameplay and things that go on in it. Again do not compare it to other FFs because its simply not capable to be. Comparing it to other MMOs like Ragnarok Online or any of the games that are listed on the chart i gave you would be the correct thing to do.

Have they held their standards? Yes they produced a game that people, especially in the MMO world would love. Its a top notch game.It hasnt let me down and i played almost all previous FFs. But on the same note its not for everyone because MMOs(as well as any type of game) isnt for everyone's tastes. But they do a damn good job at the moment and i see no other game with this much depth.(and again in MMO terms).


500,000 users out of about 300,000,000 isn't much.

Again you have no idea how much this means, no other MMORPG made it thus far.


Give me ten thousand dollars and I can have an addicitve game of crap made and put on the internet, and I'd have 1M players by the end of the week.

Again they spent Millions on this game, research it. They need 200,000 people in order to break even. THeir fees are into alot of money by keepin server, bandwidth, electricity, tech team, GM team, and other misc expenses(along with 20 other servers to boot). I doubt you can do such a thing. Please research the thing before you really say it. A game of this magnitude on 20 servers with the matience isnt possible for you and certainlety 10000 bucks is chump change to their costs.


Is it addictive, or is it good?

BOTH! XD But to each their own jus tlike FFX-2.


are most of these 500,000 honored square clientele, or did they scrape up half a million bums off the street?

These are active subscriptions. Theres also 1,000,000 characters made total. These arent just bums. This question makes no sense whatsoever.


Is this a break of tradition or are they upholding their standards

They are upholding alot mroe than standards with their service. And is it breaking the traditional offline type game? Yes. But is it breaking the MMORPG tradition in the most part? Nope it remains true to them. But it also borrows many counterparts of offline FFs with the way things are done like potions, Cure spells, the way people are. It does give an FF feeling unlike some D&D feeling.

EDIT: If the link dont work heres the pic for you even.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce2/Subscriptions.gif

[Kalel]

If you continue to buy FFs than you prove the point Square can make the game the way they want it and still give what players want. Cause if they were so bad or continued same thing or you didn't like them you wouldn't buy it. Cause games are not cheap.

So, don't buy it if you don't like online games. Cause FFXI is best FF or online game I ever played. And I loved FF7-FF10. So I think Square knows what it is doing when it comes to FF games. They put 100% effect into game to make it great. I am lvl 65 white mage/33 summoner so I know what I am talking about when I say game is great and fun to play. I enjoy the game very much.

Oh yeah if they made game to fit everyone desires game would not be same or probably suck. So what you think is good in a game may not be overall good for all the fans.

[Clyde Arronway]

But square has defined what an FF is. They can't just change it and give it to us any more than a jewler can start selling zircons for diamonds and naming them diamonds.

[Lionx]

And yet they have you can say, FF is their franchise, they can do whatever they wish with it. And as long as they are putting out great games, like FFXI, then i have no qualms to whatever it is.

Whats the big freaking deal if its online anyway? Its not like every other FF is online.

[Rostum]

It's quite contradicting, your posts that is, Clyde. You say they can't do this and can't do that with their FF games? Yet they have done whatever they wanted with their FF games (i.e. making one of them online), and they are making some great business from it. So what's your point? They made a sequal to an FF game, and they made some great business out of that. So what's your point?

There's only one project that crashed their organisation for awhile, and that was Spirits Within. But hey, they at least tried, didn't they?


They can't just change it and give it to us any more than a jewler can start selling zircons for diamonds and naming them diamonds.

But they have! You don't seem to get this point, they have changed it and they are getting good sales on it. And your example isn't exactly right for this argument. The video game industry is a little different from your jewler's industry.

[Lionx]

While we are on topic why not argue that Blizzard is doing a bad job because they are releasing World of Warcraft(their FFXI so to speak) and Starcraft: Ghost? Those are very different from the RTS games they usually put out. So long as they get money and are doing a good job with their franchise, theres nothing wrong with them making a game that is standing out from the rest.

[Ichy]

Change is good. Change is what makes the people different from the rocks.

Can't remember where I heard that, but I've been waiting a while for a relevant place to use it. Thanks :)

[Clyde Arronway]

It's quite contradicting, your posts that is, Clyde. You say they can't do this and can't do that with their FF games? Yet they have done whatever they wanted with their FF games (i.e. making one of them online), and they are making some great business from it. So what's your point? They made a sequal to an FF game, and they made some great business out of that. So what's your point?

This is so terribly utilitarian. Have they followed their high standards or are they pandering to the masses?


your example isn't exactly right for this argument. The video game industry is a little different from your jewler's industry.

how? they're both selling top of the line valuable merchandise and square has seemed to change it, am I right? I never got a straight answer to my first post. Is this a break of tradition. Have they actually replaced FF with somthing different. not necesarraly bad, but is it significantly different. my question is if someone put out all the FF's in a row and sang that obnoxious sesame street song, "one of these things is not like the other" would everyone point to XI

[Lionx]

How is it significantly different? Its an MMORPG! Read up about it! Know what the freak MMOs are first, its of course different from the other FFs.

About that song, the same can be said for FFVII and VIII because its not the same as the previous 6, or the FFIX because its different from VII and VIII, or even X-2 because its a sequeal, but this is online. That makes no sense whatsoever to really point out that this one is odd. Its however online and IS different. Its not breaking tradition, there was NO tradition to begin with, hence why there are ppl saying FFIX sucks or FFX-2 sucks or etc. Just live with it ><;;

How are they pandering? This game is only good for some audiences, i for one like MMOs with normal RPGs, those that dont like online play or lots of time to do quests and every lvl up count...dont need to play it, i know some dont like this game because MMORPGs just arent their thing, but some do and hence it caters to them. Again whats wrong with them making this? is FFXII the same? I hope not because not only does it hurt their buisness, it also screws thingsup. So theres no reason to complain, i have been thinking of an FF online game for a bit years before.

[Rostum]

Have they followed their high standards or are they pandering to the masses?
If you would bother to play the game, than just complain about the differences, you would realise that it IS a high standard game, and actually higher than any other MMORPG's I've played, and I'm sure everyone would agree with me.


How? they're both selling top of the line valuable merchandise and square has seemed to change it, am I right? Is this a break of tradition.
First of all, it is different... Video games have a completely different value than diamonds and jewels, and can be tweaked as much as they want them to be. All game companies do it.


I never got a straight answer to my first post.
Post it again, please.


Have they actually replaced FF with somthing different. not necesarraly bad, but is it significantly different. my question is if someone put out all the FF's in a row and sang that obnoxious sesame street song, "one of these things is not like the other" would everyone point to XI
That's complete and utter dumb. All the FF's are different to each other, the only thing that could be considered the same is that they are some sort of an RPG's, have Cid in them and also Chocobo's. Did you know there was actually games like FFT and FFTA? They are loved by many. Sure there's a certain 'standard' that makes an FF an FF enjoyable by the fanbase, but that doesn't mean Square-Enix can't make MMORPG's.

The point is, they have and they will continue to maintain it with a growing fanbase. And don't worry... FFXII isn't going to be online, but I can tell you it will be different than any other FF, you just better hope Chocobo's are in it.

[White Mage Nico]

Say, um... This thread is called Compare to other ff games, but it seems that you are arguing I have a few things to say ^_^ 1. This Argument isnt really needed. 2. Final Fantasy is a series, but each one is different, this I think is just another change. ^_^ 3. I am not a White Mage :tongue:

EDIT: Forgot to say something in last post 4. Pwease don't awgue abowt games :cry:

Please don't double post. -Murder

[Lionx]

The point is that you CANT compare this to other FFs in most respects...thats why its not worth comparing because its different.