Who is the strongest ff character?

[Ed, Edd n' Eddy]

I want to know what you guys think about who would win if all the ff characters got in a fight (or battle whatever you want to call it) who do you think would win?

[zacks_clone]

because it inclues ALL FF characters,this should probably be in the "genral ff" section.but if you just mean out of VII,Cloud would win

[Evil_Cloud]

Cloud and Sephiroth would put aside their differences, and slaughter the rest of the characters, since they love to chop shit up.

[Haggard756]

well cloud would win of course cause hes the man....haha....

[DocFrance]

Cid. His ultimate weapon, the Venus Gospel does more damage when his MP is full, so you never have to worry about damage affecting his battle performance. His best limit break, Highwind, does nearly as much damage as Cloud's Omnislash (in my opinion, it's the third best limit break in the game after Omnislash and Great Gospel). He has high strength and vitality, and decent dexterity. As an added bonus, he's an awesome character outside of battle.

[CloudySky]

Cloud and Sephiroth would put aside their differences, and slaughter the rest of the characters, since they love to chop shit up.

I would like to see that!

[sephiroth21]

"then every one looked up into the sky to see a giant meteor hit and destroy the earth, and there stood sephiroth laughing".......does that answere ur question?

[Rase]

For playable Characters, probabaly Cloud.
For anyone, I think Zeromus (FFIV) When you can make a Big Bang Svereal times in ten minutes, you pretty strong.

[aeris2001x2]

do u really think anyone would be left standing after a single hit from Penance's JUDGEMENT DAY??? the only way this ultimate super boss would not win is if the characters all teamed up 2 take him out first...

[Snowman]

Auron

he's already dead

[muchacho]

edward, he would hide untill every one was bored and they would all get bored and leave, forfeiting the match makeing edward win.

[Old Manus]

kuja would turn them all to stone with his girly looks.

[Trumpet Thief]

Cloud, Cecil, or Squall.

[Carnage]

Auron

he's already dead

good point. But i discualify him and say squall

[The Captain]

That Relm is pretty tough to beat in an arm wrestling match I hear...

Take care all.

[Snowman]

Auron mocks squalls puny gunblade, easily parrying all of squalls renzosuken

[Trumpet Thief]

If it is just from FFVII, Cid would win. With his ultimate weapon, and maxed out strength, His Highwind Final Limit Break can do more damage than Omnislash.

[SpiritWolf]

I'm going to say Red XIII

[sephiroth21]

red xiii would be cut up and cooked over a fire for food by sephiroth...

[Chris]

http://www.zell.webzdarma.cz/final-fantasy-7/cait.gif
After all of these years of playing and finishing Final Fantasy VII, I still haven't managed to get a hold of Cait Sith's ultimate weapon.
I know it's in the lockeroom of the Shin-Ra building but I always forget to get it in the beginning...is there any way I can get it on disc 3 ?

[Inuyasha23]

if we're talking VII it comes down to cloud and sephiroth...and if i remember right cloud does some bad damage when they're in that materia power plant near clouds home town.

[TasteyPies]

This is in general final fantasy now so im going to say.....it depends but someone from ffx because their stats can go over 500 and their health can reach 99999. Im going with......Auron.

[UltimateSpamGrover]

well, first there would have to be a level rescriction because My character in FFXI would kill them all :D

[Edgar]

Sabin, I mean, wtf he carried an entire building...

[Martyr]

Chaos in FF1 has 2000 HPs. That's representative of all the "Chaos" monsters in other FFs. Just as the One in FFV has, what, like 60,000 HP, it's 2000 on a FF1 scale.

Also, the BB and Knight in FF1 could easily do 200-300 damage against Chaos at decent levels.
That's without using monster weakpoints or relics of any sort to their advantage... And they do 10% damage. It's like somebody in FFV doing 6000 damage every turn without winking. Or the same on any other scale. (I only remember the FFV ExDeath HP for some reason)

So, clearly, the FF1 dudes are the strongest by far.

[Snowman]

well is it purely pysical, is it mental, or is it a balance of both. i wouldnt say HP counts for powerful because then you take into account healing and prtective spells.

[Ultima Shadow]

Agree with Snowman. Therefore Agility is vry important, so you can be fast enough to both attack and heal quickly. And wasn't this about "Characters", not bosses?

[Snowman]

exactly. for example, in FFX2, if you give the catnip item to Rikku in her theifs outfit, shes fast and knocks 9999 off twice because she hits twice (it was strange, my theif should have been weak but she was powerful without catnip lol).

perhapes it makes sense to judge by durability which means a mix of all.

[Az Lionheart]

im with squall or auron, auron can break 9999 but so can lion heart!

[Ultima Shadow]

But Lion Heart don't break the limmit, it just hit multiple times!

[Az Lionheart]

which does 9999 16+ times so.....if you do the maths.....it does break 9999 :p

[aeris2001x2]

i,m afraid u can say anything u want but Penance is just the hardest single entity.

hey ff1 cant be the hardest characters. i mean in my origins edition chaos has 4000hp and u can still kill him in 3-4 hits.

[Trumpet Thief]

Auron mocks squalls puny gunblade, easily parrying all of squalls renzosuken

Bah, you forget that since Auron is dead, someone can send him. Easy as that :)

[Snowman]

yep..renzokuken is no differnt from omnislash only with differing finishing moves

aeris, people were reasoning out the fact FF1 was made earlier than others and so working on the theory of ...oh whatever lol

Lionheart.....no one knew auron was dead except yuna, and shes not gonna send him. plus only summoners from FFX/X2 can send the dead....so whats puny little squall gonna do.....whahahahaah

[Martyr]

hey ff1 cant be the hardest characters. i mean in my origins edition chaos has 4000hp and u can still kill him in 3-4 hits.

If your hero can kill the last boss in 3-4 hits, and it takes the other heroes countless turns and efforts to defeat the strongest boss, which hero is strongest?
Which FF Character is strongest? The one that can kill the final boss easiest! That's the Knight from FF1!

And if everybody wants to rule it out because thay're having a hard time coming to grips with a nameless Light Warrior's superiority over Auron (Or whoever), then it's a complex that needs to be sorted out with a psychologist. Not here.

[Snowman]

i think any psychologist would rule it one way - geekdom.

however.....what you said made sense....but didnt define anything, you can easily build characters from FFX/X2 up so that one of them on their own can kill an end boss in one hit. often without maxing my characters i have trouble avoiding killing the top bosses to fast because i want to enjoy the fight.

[Trumpet Thief]

yep..renzokuken is no differnt from omnislash only with differing finishing moves

aeris, people were reasoning out the fact FF1 was made earlier than others and so working on the theory of ...oh whatever lol

Lionheart.....no one knew auron was dead except yuna, and shes not gonna send him. plus only summoners from FFX/X2 can send the dead....so whats puny little squall gonna do.....whahahahaah

Bah, any summoner can send someone, and in FFVIII anyone can summon since everyone can be a carbon copy of eachother :) And they can find out that Auron is already dead when he tells about the stories of the past, and how he was killed. That and the fact that their Limit Breaks won't do anything to him. They just get a cd of the song and prayer, and Auron is on his way to the farplane.

Edit: I never said Squall was stronger than him though, 'cause Auron's kool. Although I think Cecil is the strongest.

[aeris2001x2]

in that case its still penance...oh if u only mean characters u control then it would be the ffX ppl.

[Trumpet Thief]

Yeah, considering that they can break the HP, MP and attack limit.

[K-chan]

Feh, Quina would beat them all. lol seriously tho, I think as far as playable characters,Cloud is the strongest

[Snowman]

lionheart..you carnt change the games to suit you....ONLY summoners from FFX/X2 can send the dead, only because of the teachings of Yevon. whats more Auron didnt talk about himself, he was stedfastly silent, only Tidus knew he had travelled a thousand years into the past and then they went forward again.

[Trumpet Thief]

Yah, yah I know. Besides, Auron is way stronger than Squall will ever be. I just liked bringing the whole sending thing up.

[Snowman]

if it was weapon wise....the gunblade would be more advantagous than aurons peircing blade.....but thats because i teach sword fighting for real. :D

[Trumpet Thief]

Either way. Whether we are determining who is stronger by how much damage they do to an enemy, or just by appearance, Auron is stronger. But still, I considered Cecil, Squall and Cloud to be pretty strong as well, but Auron has had more experience, and he is stronger.

[aeris2001x2]

its still penanance...

its by all there stats, so it has to be the ffX characters who all reach max stats with 99999 per hit. who has the hardest limit...wakka? so its wakka.

[Ultima Shadow]

Never got Wakkas final overdrive or best weapon. I didn't like playing Blizball. how many times does it hit? More than Tidus Bliz Ace?

[Snowman]

experiance has nothig to do with it....it can alter your character...but ti has nothign to do with your sworplay skill, i was as good as i am now when i was seven. however due to auron being able to break hp and attack limits...i would still say auron

[Trumpet Thief]

Yeah, the older characters cannot go over 9999 in attacking, MP or HP. Yet Auron can break all of those, and get to 99999 in everything, thus making him the strongest.

[aeris2001x2]

yes its the strongest character limit in the game, the attack reels, way better then blitzace.

it was well worth it 2 get his ultimate weapon...just adds an extra 40 hours 2 your game :eep: oh god i,ve never mastered something i didnt want 2 before.

and and since EVERYONE in ffX can reach the same stats, what makes Auron stronger? i,d tip the best limit break...which is wakka...

[Snowman]

because although all are equal...auron looks cooler and has a better weapon

[aeris2001x2]

but its about whos the strongest, not coolest. plus the weapon is not better then the others.

[Trumpet Thief]

But Auron is the strongest, looks the coolest, and has the coolest weapon IMO.

[Snowman]

Aurons weapon....well although slower than most, the peircing blades can cut through tougher foes, if your talking about his ultimate weapon...it does have a very neat advantage, the lower his HP gets, the more powerful his attacks get. UNLIKE tidus or clouds ultimate weapons which weaken with lesser HP....in dire moments, aurons the most powerful.

[DJZen]

Gilbert/Edward would hide until there was only one person left, then attack him from behind and kill him, possibly in one hit from being so horribly worn down by everyone else. Wouldn't it just be hideously embarrasing for Squall, Cloud or even the supposedly almighty Auron to be taken down by a musical note?

[Ultima Shadow]

Wouldn't it just be hideously embarrasing for Squall, Cloud or even the supposedly almighty Auron to be taken down by a musical note?
...From a "spoony bard". :D

[aeris2001x2]

lol UltimaShadow :D

i,d say all the celestial weapons have there good and bad side, not one is better then the other.

anyway i,ve decided everyone is a *character* in a story...so Peneance wins again...

[Ultima Shadow]

Yea, yea. You ARE rigth about that. Penance would beat the crap out of everyone else... even a spoony bard. :D

[aeris2001x2]

the final apocalyptic battle to decide the fate of the universe...

Peneance V Spoony Bard! :eek: :rolleyes2 :)

[Ultima Shadow]

the final apocalyptic battle to decide the fate of the universe...

Peneance V Spoony Bard! :eek: :rolleyes2 :)
It's to bad Edward is not a boss. It would have been a great final in your boss tournaments. :D :D :D

[aeris2001x2]

lol :) its a traversty Edward did not win the NPC tournment a while back. he would have whooped Beatrix or Rubicant in the final :p

[Snowman]

any geek can stab in the back...it's nothing clever..in fact it's embarresing that you have to do that. i carnt THINK of a time ive ever stabbed someone in the back, i would be ashamed because you only need to do that if your crap anyway..then again when people have tried to do that to me it was simply enough to spin away form my opponant when i sensed them, finishe the back stabber in a couple of blows and then continue my fight..so i dont think Auron would be taken out by a cowardly move

[Rase]

any geek can stab in the back...it's nothing clever..in fact it's embarresing that you have to do that...

Hey, one of my favorite video game characters LOVES to backstab. Garret, from the Thief series, does it all the time, not because it's cowardly or because he can't beat them in a fair fight, but because it's easier. Why would you challenge someone you want to kill to a fair fight if you can simply backstab them and get it done? I don't see it as cowardly, I see it as smart.

[Ultima Shadow]

Hey, one of my favorite video game characters LOVES to backstab. Garret, from the Thief series, does it all the time, not because it's cowardly or because he can't beat them in a fair fight, but because it's easier. Why would you challenge someone you want to kill to a fair fight if you can simply backstab them and get it done? I don't see it as cowardly, I see it as smart.
Have you no sense of HONOUR? :D

[Rase]

Hey, he's a Thief, what do you expect. But he saves the world (three times to date), so it's all good.

As for me, well, I think I have honour, but if someone's out to get me and I have the chance, I'll take them out stealth-style.

[Snowman]

theres a differance between walking up to someone who deserves death and slitting their throat to finsh a job....and stabbing in the back because it's "easier".

if your opponant killed those you love, or is a total out and out villian who eats live babys etc....dont waste time, they dont deserve anything, simply slit their throats. but if it's simply an opponant..you should want to enjoy a battle. if you have any skill you will want to fight them, to enjoy them, and also give them the chance of combat that they deserve.

i teach people to fight against anyone and anything they encounter....but ti also means I end up fighting most of the time..i wouldnt stab in the back because it's cheap, it isnt enjoyable...anyone can do it

[darkphoenix6562]

cloud would win no doubt... his oversized sword would vanquish all :chop:

[Snowman]

bustersword is simply one fo the nuttyest swords ever..only in a ff word would that thing be of any use

[Ultima Shadow]

Cloud must be strong as crap if he can do an omnislash with that sword.
Ofcourse... Aurons swords are not weightless either... However, Auron doesn't act like they where weightless like Cloud do. Still Auron looks stronger + Clouds swords are even hevier. If FF was for real... (not including any HP, stats etc) then Cloud whould be helpless.

[DJZen]

i carnt THINK of a time ive ever stabbed someone in the back

I can't think of a time when I stabbed anyone period. However, Edward clearly does not STAB. He clearly PLAYS MUSIC and this somehow hurts monsters.

Anyway, it's not being cowardly, it's being realistic. When it comes down to a fight, do you want to be the one bleeding on the ground, or the one still standing? If there's a massive brawl going down and I want to survive, I'm not going to be stupid and try to take on everyone, I'm going to get the hell out of there, chug a can of red bull, then come back to sweep up. Squall would go down so quick it wouldn't even be funny.

Wait... yes it would be funny. It would be HILARIOUS.

[Snowman]

given the differnces in the illustrations of clouds buster sword (it's differing leangth and width), you might, if properly trained do one chop with it but you would never recover and that attack could be avoided easily.

well DJzen, ive stabbed, and dismemberd many times, untill the summer breack i was doing it tousands of times every wed night in various combat situations - one on one, full meleass and free for alls and 15 onto one. so dont worry if no one has fallen to the tip of your blade. :)
as for surviving or bleeding to death.....that would be the one doing the backstabbings choice how they want to die. an opponant who fights fairly and with skill i will happily allow to surrender and live or die quick and painlessly. but those who DO try cheap tricks or have to resort to such ......underhand...tactics i take my time with, i take them apart in my own time peice by piece

[aeris2001x2]

then your likely to die brave sir against hordes of enemys if u take them on one on one, unless your as hard as uma thurman in killbill. and considering she makes bruce lee look weak...

[Rase]

but those who DO try cheap tricks or have to resort to such ......underhand...tactics i take my time with, i take them apart in my own time peice by piece

But if they use such, as you say, "underhanded tactics", and they work, how will you defeat them? I guess it all depends on the type of tactic they use.

[Snowman]

i am but a knight Aeris....that said, Uma is an actress who was trained for a short time to fight in choreographed combat......i have done it for real my entire life and now teach it....i was defeating guys and girls in full armour when i was still in little school.....i belive it's essential to teach people to fight multple opponants at teh same time, often it depends on teh current number of studants...so people only get to learn how to fight fifteen onto one, if we have more at any given time then they can enjoy (however many) onto one. i can walk away from a fight alive with lotsda opponants or just one...i do this for real, against any weapon and any opponant, it would be a lie otherwise.

Dark_Paladin....those "underhanded techniques" dont work on me....they only ever work on beginers or people who would do the same thing. whats more you have to be tought HOW to do it properly or you will get knocked flying. im a confident and weatherd enough warrior to have access to all my senses and when combat is afoot im not cought off gaurd....in this day and age few of us can avoid a sniper in a building...but thats not what we are talking about, and in reality, the people who tend to be willing and do try to stab in the back are some of the weakest fighters with teh biggest ego's. A confident and competant - skilled warrior doesnt need to stab in the back

[Ultima Shadow]

Cool...
Snowman, I got some question for you...

1) Have you EVER stabed someone in the back?

2) Compare a sword with a gun. Whitch one do you considre the strongest etc in detail. Your thougths about a gun and a sword etc. Whatever.)

3) Have you ever been beaten in a figth? (If so, how many times?)

4) Have you ever killed someone? (If so, how many?)

5) How do you "sense" a back stabber?

6) What is 11+13? (IQ test :D )

7) Really, who IS the strongest FF character. If FF was for real, no HP/Dammage things.

8) Rant your skill level 1-10.

9) Is sword battle all about striking with the sword or is there special ways to use the sword that is important to know?

...And I think Caith Sith whould beat all the other characters with ease! :D

[Rase]

Dark_Paladin....those "underhanded techniques" dont work on me....they only ever work on beginers or people who would do the same thing. whats more you have to be tought HOW to do it properly or you will get knocked flying. im a confident and weatherd enough warrior to have access to all my senses and when combat is afoot im not cought off gaurd....in this day and age few of us can avoid a sniper in a building...but thats not what we are talking about, and in reality, the people who tend to be willing and do try to stab in the back are some of the weakest fighters with teh biggest ego's. A confident and competant - skilled warrior doesnt need to stab in the back

Well, since, from what I understand, in your opinion, someone who backstabs is a weak, cocky coward. While some are, some swordfighters are the same.
But anyway, when I meant tactics, I didn't mean jsut moving/jumping around or using fancy tricks. If I must win a fight, I'm not above using such techniques as blinding my opponent with a flash of light or a foreign object (sand or dirt, for example). If I'm just in a contest for fighting, I wouldn't do it, but in a life and death battle, I will do anything to win and live, even if some consider my ways "cowardly".

[Snowman]

alright Ultima, i will try to keep them simple because i can be off on a big tangent very easily lol....

1 - no, never. not in combat or sparring. when we are having a laugh, or resting, i sneak up behind people and jump on their backs, but thats to make people laugh and to get them used to bodyliy contact which is important. moreso i have never needed to stab in the back, i defeat my foes often as cleanly as possible. i have been in MANY situations where i could.

2 - if any one disagress with me you have the right to. A gun is a weapon of destruction, it's sole act of firing a bullet is an explosive and destructive force of nature, the bullet itself will penetrate a body or something, breaking or tearing it. A sword is a weapon of defence. despite it's shape and edges, you dont have to hurt, cut or damage for you to still use it effectivly. an axe has one purpose, to cut, but a sword, the very reason for it being made the way it is is to withstand attacks. in time everything is alterd to serve new functions, cars were once for transport, now they are for racing, for fashion etc, this is true of swords today. It's only my oppinion, but like Batman said - guns are messy, often cowardly weapons, blades are clean and honest.

3- yes. anyone who says they havent is fibbing. but you have to understand teh differnce between sparring, playing and fighting for REAL. when im teaching im doing a cross of sparring and playing, therefore i dont put as much effort in, i carnt use all my skills or the studant would be put off, when teaching you have to use less skill, and as they grow you can return to your full power. so while teaching, playing and sparring there as foten a few times i am beaten and i take it happily - fighting is chaos, you carnt win all the time. however when i fight for real, or when it matters, im very rarely beaten and i dont cheat. when it counts i MUST be everything i can be so that again, the studants who are ready can grow against a real opponant. if im training for two hours a week every wed, and no important fights come up i may be beat twice, often when im distracted by thoughs of lunch. but last week, i wasnt beat all night and i had to go through everyone, which a quaterstaff and with a sword.

4 - i havent, but my mother has. i have however been in fights where the opponant WAS going to kill me, for real, and the only reason im typing now is because i was good enough to stop him without killing him..well them. but the only differnce from me killing someone and me REALLY killing them is me pulling my blow.

5 - training. the excersises we teach help re-awaken your bodys senses and your sense of awareness and bodily space. you need this ability when your fighting in battles and melass with lotsa people around you all fighting their own fights. your moving around....walking backwards while talking and fighting your opponant, you dont want to back into someone or get hit by someone eles fight, so you leanr to "sense" another object or person. this also allows you to sense oncoing attacks you carnt see. we teach you to fight blind, to fight as many people as possible, untill your fighting with control on pure instinct.

6 - a smart allic question :)

7 - excluding monsters and villians and super powers - Tifa. most men ARE distracted simply by fighting a woman let alone a pretty one, all she needs is that split second and she can breack your neck.

8 - 9, my mothers always telling me ten, but i am a moaner so i would be ten, the proof is in the pudding, plus if you dont know yourself, you shouldnt be fighting or teaching.

9 - many people will tel you sword combat is all about attacking, others will tell you it's about choreography....for me, WE are the weapon, and you shouldnt be fighting unless you have control of that sword, total control. fighting is give and take, attack and defence, blows and parrys/blocks untill you see an opening and you kill your opponant. you should be fighting because you enjoy a good fight, not because you want to hurt people

i was speaking in gneral Dark.....not a reflection on FF. all the people ive met and fought, easily in the thousands who like and use cheating moves like that are weak in both body and mind and lack teh skill to fight well. if im fighting and light streams through a window into my eyes blinding me, i dont stop, thats more dangerous, i carry on with control and i teach my studants to be able to control themselves in those moments without needing to resort to underhanded tactics. you shouldnt need to do such things if your a competant and skilled warrior, if you do, then you carnt be any good.

[Az Lionheart]

Auron "celestrial" weapon wins this my friends

[Rase]

you shouldnt need to do such things if your a competant and skilled warrior, if you do, then you carnt be any good.

Well, your intitled to your own opinion. However, I do, and I have heard from people that I am very good, but that was when I was fightin "fairly". So, while I've trained with such, as you say, "cheating moves", I have never used them on someone, mostly because the people I fight are my friends, and I don't wish to hurt them. In a fight against a complete stranger, there would be, as they say, "no holds barred".

[aeris2001x2]

this is just my opinion, so dont grill me...

but in a fight to the death, there r no rules. honour is meaningless. you may be a great fighter and you definitly sound like you know your stuff, but in a real fight its about surviving and winning. you may call someone who, (lets say, knew you would beat them in a head on fight, so they back stabbed you or slit your throat in your sleep) cowardly but at the end of the day, you would be the one whos dead.

its not just unskilled or cowards who use these tactics though. as Dark Paladin Cecil is saying, its the smarter fighter who wins. you can be skilled and still resort to surprise attacks to get the job quicker, or even because its the only way 2 win.

in like stealth games its just stuipity to try and fight the Terriosts or Ronin or Mafia Body Guards head on, you would die so fast. you have to sneak around and take them out from the shadows.

i reiterate, its about results. remember the first indiana Jones Film, the raiders of the lost ark? that swordsmen may have been way too hard for our hero but shooting him is all it took. win what ever way u can. yeah,

try the honourable path, but unless they are being honourable as well and u have agreed to a non *cheating* one on one fight with them, use whatever means avaliable. if more then one enemy confronts u, then u should not feel any shame for pulling out your machine pistols, and in a life or death struggle, i would rather sneak up on them or shoot them then get my head smashed in.

[Ryth]

It would all come down to Cloud and Sephiroth then a climatic battle starts to go down through the ages then I wouldn't know who would win.

[Snowman]

Dark, studants and freinds have called me a master swordsman, natural etc. it's nice of them to say so, but thats simply their oppinion, i judge how good i am by my achivements and skill. i would and do fight a freind/family and enemy exactly the same, to do otherwise is to cheat someone. i only slow myself for studants who have only just held a sword for the first time in their lives. but for people who would do underhand things in combat.....i wouldnt give you the chance, i see you move to do so, i see dirt moving between your fingers, and i would take your head in a heart beat. if people NEED to resort to such things because they lack teh skill to cleanly and competantly defeat their opponants, thats up to them, but it robs them of any mercy they may have got from me.

Aeris, dont worry im not gonna stab ya like a maniak. Honer isnt the same as chivalry, and there are many differnt interpretations of both. Chivalry would have me not kill an unarmed foe, but in the sense of honer, i would be stripping my opponant of his honer by walking away and NOT defeating him. fighting with honer means you respect your opponants skills as a warrior, it means that you wont cheat or resort to anything beneath you to win, otherwise if you did your nothing better than a common dirtbag. anyone can throw dirt in someones eyes and stab them, but ti takes skill to win fairly and cleanly.

smarts have nothing to do with fighting, your mind and thoughts get in the way, it should be instinctual like the wind. IF YOU NEED TO RESORT to throwing dirt in someones face, your skills are lacking, otherwise you wouldnt need to. ANYONE can cheat, anyone can cut a throat from behind or poisen, by becoming a warrior who can stand the storm, your learning it be more than that.

stealth games, your talking about assasination, that isnt what we were talking about. if your one man VS a town of deadly mobsters lol, you in a differnt situation to warriors battling.

thats swordsman in Jones obviously wasnt any good or he wouldnt have stood around like a wanker waving his swords around. you carnt always expect another person to be as good or fair as you, but YOU can still kill them with skill and ability. anyone can shoot a gun, it's because people want results that nuclear weapons can kill everything on the planet and germ warfare strips anyone of any chance of honer. i walk out into a battle, and i walk away alive again without resorting to anything naughty or cheating.

you would rather sneak up on them because you lack the self confidence and knowledge that they will die and you will live, unless you know your abilityes you wont get anywhere

bottom line.....i know im worth more, than to have to cheat to win, i know that most of my enemies and opponants deserve a degree of respect if they will face me as a warrior. if they commit atrocities and then hide and cower, then yes i would simply slit their throats, but thats not combat, thats assasination, it has nothing to do with fighting, skill or honer

[Snowman]

to make long posts short. you shouldnt need to cheat or whatever else to win your fight. if your a good fighter you should be able to simply beat your opponant, if not your weaker. even if you win by cheating your still weaker and you will always be so. i teach my studants how to win cleanly and purly with skill and ability. what they do from there is their path to walk. any common thug can scrabble about in the dirt

[Polaris]

I don't really care of who is the strongest character, probably Cloud...

[Snowman]

if you dont care why did you post in this thread lol :D thats like going to a thread called "is the world going to end in 2006" and saying, "i have no oppinion" whahaa :p :love:

[xarius]

Well, owing to a huge bias on my part, it'd have to be one of the black mages out of the games... I'd vote Lulu because she is hot. She could use her baps as a hypnotic pendulum on any character, once under her thrall she'll throw a few flares or deaths at them and BOOM!

:)

[Rase]

to make long posts short. you shouldnt need to cheat or whatever else to win your fight. if your a good fighter you should be able to simply beat your opponant, if not your weaker. even if you win by cheating your still weaker and you will always be so. i teach my studants how to win cleanly and purly with skill and ability. what they do from there is their path to walk. any common thug can scrabble about in the dirt

First, I would like to say that there are a variety of "last ditch's", as I prefr to call them. Throwing dirt is one, but it's to primitive and crude for me to use often.

But mainly, I have a situation I don't think we have discussed. Say the you are in a fight with a man who is superior(sp?) to you. Now, you know that he gives no mercy to any one he defeats. Now, if he were beating you and you knew he was more skilled, what would you do? Rather die, or use the handgun left by a tree only 3 feet away (this is hypothetical). There is no one around, no one to see the end but you two. No one even knows your fighting, unless you tell them. So, what is your choice?

I will answer it myself, though I think you already know my answer, which is shot him before I am killed.

[Ultima Shadow]

to make long posts short. you shouldnt need to cheat or whatever else to win your fight. if your a good fighter you should be able to simply beat your opponant, if not your weaker. even if you win by cheating your still weaker and you will always be so. i teach my studants how to win cleanly and purly with skill and ability. what they do from there is their path to walk. any common thug can scrabble about in the dirtThat's why I never use cheap methods in games. I want to beat the super bosses without cheap super attacks. I beat them in a fair figth to show that I'm stronger and more skilled than the bosses, not just use any cowardly instant death move. :D Yea, I KNOW there's a big difference betwene the battle in a game and the real thing... but still. :D

Dark_Paladin_Cecil, what if you got killed when you'r about to pick up the gun? I don't think he whould just stand there looking at you as you pick up a gun. That whould mean you get killed without any figth at all. :chop:
If he's to far away to reach you, then just run away. :strut:

[Rase]

Dark_Paladin_Cecil, what if you got killed when you'r about to pick up the gun? I don't think he whould just stand there looking at you as you pick up a gun. That whould mean you get killed without any figth at all. :chop:
If he's to far away to reach you, then just run away. :strut:

Too reach something 3 feet awya in less than half a second is very easy. Also, did you see this?


(this is hypothetical).

So we're assuming he can get to it if he wants to. The question is, does he?

[aeris2001x2]

it depends if u see honour as good thing. you can shoot him and lose your honour, or die honourably...

you have 2 decide if honour is a virtue of divine worth or a falseity that blinds you.

i get what you say snowman, but i say again, what will all this honour and chiverly be good for when this rat blows your head off?

[Snowman]

Xarius has some strange point there lol

Dark....you hoping you have the time for a "last ditch", that time is only relient on your opponant being slow to catch on etc.

HYPOTHETICAL - ok, while i havent met opponants supirior to me, i do constantly remind people that to fight is chaos, you can have fought your whole life, and crap happens, a beginer on her first night can kill you cleanly.....thats what you chance. SO this opponant whos gotten the upper hand on me, lets say my sword broke and was lobbed over a cliff lol, if he's only going hand to hand, i still dont need the shotgun - the reason i dont need it is because i know how far and what im capable off, whats more, while i have faced down people with shotguns, i dont know how to actually use one other than pulling the trigger. rather than move for the gun, i would take him down before HE could get to the gun, keep it out of the equation. if i took the weapon it would take seconds for me to asses how to use it in which case, if he is that much of an opponant he would have closed in on me.....so better to either keep the fight away from the weapon and break him.....or use the shotgun in hand to hand. (i answeard this hypo before reading further posts).

any weapons in any situation are possible to switch sides in a confrontation, thats why you have to have full control and understand that weapon. over here in the UK only the military and the armed police have guns, very few farmers do now, this means that situations with guns are rarer than situations with people with swords from mail order catalouges.

Honer carnt blind people, it's simply a form of morality.

"i get what you say snowman, but i say again, what will all this honour and chiverly be good for when this rat blows your head off?" - Aeris - you always presume i will loose in these situations, or that i am hamperd by my code and measure. i havent lost yet, ive never lost through someone cheating....we all die, thats a fact, sooner or later we stop, you carnt win every fight, thats a fact, but warriors who embrace honer, humility and chivalry understand this and it forms a type of love and compassion - like spider man bringing home the body of the green goblin.
if i die, i will know that i stuck to what i belived in, and despite what happens to me, i helped lives. i an die facing myself.
NOT might makes right....MIGHT FOR RIGHT

[Rase]

Xarius has some strange point there lol

Dark....you hoping you have the time for a "last ditch", that time is only relient on your opponant being slow to catch on etc.

You make it sound like it takes so long. Most take less the half a second to a second at most to execute them.



HYPOTHETICAL - ok, while i havent met opponants supirior to me, i do constantly remind people that to fight is chaos, you can have fought your whole life, and crap happens, a beginer on her first night can kill you cleanly.....thats what you chance. SO this opponant whos gotten the upper hand on me, lets say my sword broke and was lobbed over a cliff lol, if he's only going hand to hand,

Why would he need to go hand to hand if he still has a blade?


i still dont need the shotgun - the reason i dont need it is because i know how far and what im capable off, whats more, while i have faced down people with shotguns, i dont know how to actually use one other than pulling the trigger.,

Ah, okay, well, with a shotgun, here's a crash course. 1. Aim gun at target, which takes about half a second for you since you have good reflexes it seems. 2. Pull the trugger while bracing for the recoil. The shotgun, if you don't know, fires a large number (8-20 on average) of metal balls in a wide area. It's Ideal for close range attacking, since at long range it's very inaccurate.


rather than move for the gun, i would take him down before HE could get to the gun, keep it out of the equation. if i took the weapon it would take seconds for me to asses how to use it in which case, if he is that much of an opponant he would have closed in on me.....so better to either keep the fight away from the weapon and break him.....or use the shotgun in hand to hand. (i answeard this hypo before reading further posts).

Well, I wrote it without reilizing you didn't know how to fire a gun.


any weapons in any situation are possible to switch sides in a confrontation, thats why you have to have full control and understand that weapon. over here in the UK only the military and the armed police have guns, very few farmers do now, this means that situations with guns are rarer than situations with people with swords from mail order catalouges.

You poor UK-ians.

[Polaris]

if you dont care why did you post in this thread lol :D thats like going to a thread called "is the world going to end in 2006" and saying, "i have no oppinion" whahaa :p :love:

:p I posted coz I wanted 2! Cloud is the strongest but I like to play with Quisty! :D

[Snowman]

A millith of a second can be a life time, in a whole second i can have coverd the ground and taken your head clean off as you reach for that gun, we can fade into a world of blood before a breath is taken.

i never said he had a sword.....i said i lost mine. if he's gonna be better than me that means he can parry and disarm without having a weapon.

yep...and your not talking about a sawn off shotgun, so in that half second your actually reducing teh distance between him and you because of teh leangth of the weapon.

yes i do have good reflexes, even if you dont you learn them...at least from us anyway

im proud of the lack of firearms in this country, it's an irresponisbal sign of the childish behavour of teh united states that most houses have one and theres so many gun relataed deaths.

lol...how is cloud the strongest, because he's sephroths puppet :) :love:

[Rase]

LOL, I just remebered this thread wasn't about what we were talking/arguing about. If you don't mind, I'm gonna stop posting, so we won't be accused of tying to hijacking the thread or anything.

[Ed, Edd n' Eddy]

Mewt :D no Sephiroth.

[Snowman]

Dark.....how can we hijack a thread where no ones talking about that topic anymore...we are simply recycling....but then again, what we are talking about does still bare relevance to this thread.....we were talking about whos teh most powerful, then we questioned how you would define the critiria as to whos teh most powerful, now we are simply discussing teh realitys of combat such as teh properties of aurons sword and combat skills...we are still on topic

[Ultima Shadow]

Actually, Snowman and Dark... your discussion is much more intresting than who's the most powerfull character.
Just keep going. ;)
Both ways are risky, try to reach the gun may cost you your life. The chanse of reaching the gun and shoot the guy to death before he finish you with his sword is not much bigger than the chanse that you can finish him with a blow from your sword.
In the middle of a sword battle I think it's pretty much impossible to reach the gun without getting your head blown... ...off. :chop:

[Rase]

Okay, okay, geez, gang up on me why don't you. ;)

But anyway, what I meant, Ultima, is if you knew there was NO way you could beat this guy in a fair fight. So would you rather cheat (or at least attempt to) or die.


Feel free to keep going, though I won't be able to respond until tomorrow night.

[Ultima Shadow]

Well, if I (in some strange way) was 100% sure that I whould die if I fougth him fair, then I whouldn't. Then I whould run... and if I knew that was 100% impossible... then I whould take the gun. But as long as he wasn't an sword-immune-but-still-vurnable-to-guns-guy, then I whould chose to figth with sword.

Another task for you Snowman... place all the swordtypes that you know in a rank list. The one you think has the most advantage first etc.

[Snowman]

cheers Ultima. what you have to remeber is that everyone isnt trained, or rather, thye arent competant to the same level of combat. the reason aragorn can kill so many orks isnt his skill, it's their lack of it. most people who train in sword combat are restricted to fighting there style and they are weak outside of it, i belive that what you learn should be useable against any weapon and any opponant.

if im in a sword battle, i wont need the gun, even thoughts of it are simply a distraction, i have a better and cleaner fight with my sword, MOST people today who say they do swordfighting are such an embarresment and provide their own deaths by gripping their shapend blade etc.

theres NEVER a situation in a fight where you carnt beat your opponant, thats the whole truth of combat, it's chaos. it may look unlikely...but never a never. only if you MAKE a hypothetical situation can you say that

Broadsword - it's the most durable, powerful, and stable. a good weapon has an equal amount of advantages and disadvantages, if it is swayed one way or the other, it's weaker despite your style of combat

wooden
lightsabre
falchion
leaf
flamberg
landsneck
gladius
saex
saber
cutlas
katana
epay
rapier

[Rase]

i belive that what you learn should be useable against any weapon and any opponant.

Wait, so say I'm trained well in small blade close fighting (fighting with daggers, knives, etc.). So you think that, if I'm trained well enough, I can defeat a man trained with, say, a M16? Or did you mean any weapon of the same type (bladed, ranged, firearms, etc)?


theres NEVER a situation in a fight where you carnt beat your opponant, thats the whole truth of combat, it's chaos. it may look unlikely...but never a never. only if you MAKE a hypothetical situation can you say that

Hence, why I said that it's a HYPOTETICAL QUESTION.

[Ultima Shadow]

Wait, so say I'm trained well in small blade close fighting (fighting with daggers, knives, etc.). So you think that, if I'm trained well enough, I can defeat a man trained with, say, a M16? Or did you mean any weapon of the same type (bladed, ranged, firearms, etc)?

Well, if you trow a knive in his face I don't think he can use his M16 very well. It's hard to shoot someone if you have a knive in your face ya know. (Yea, I got your point... if it's a long distance battle, then you'r as good as dead... but still... you can always trow the knive. :p )

[Snowman]

Dark.....first, let me point out from my point of view, theres a differnce to being trained well, and being a natural. this is a distinction ignored or misunderstood in most combat classes. soemone can be trained well, they can become damn good, but they will never be as....natural as a natural. example - someone who requires/needs to be tought how to use weapons where as a natural can teach themselves in a matter of minutes like me.

considering daggers and real knifes and the chaos of battle then yes..it is possible to defeat an opponant who weilds a firearm with a dagger or knife. it's easy to think of a situation where you WOULDNT win, perahps your on all fours and the gun is a hair trigger pressed againt your temple...but thats the chaos of battle. a combatant whos trained in knife work is less likly to be as adaptable as a natural warrior/fighter. longwinded i know..but my answear is yes. WE are the weapons, we are dangerous, everything else is simply a tool.
However the statement you quated me was actually directed at combat against any martial arts....weapons, styles. people think that you could only use sword work with a sword in your hand against swords....it isnt true, grab a lump of wood and it's assumed the form of a sword, a walking stick or a pipe. your sword work should be able to battle knifes, daggers chains quaterstaffs unarmed combat or projectiles. if your sword work carnt...then your not being trained how to fight. for instance, all the blows and parrys we teach can be used with your arms for unarmed combat. whats more the only people to carry guns in the UK is armed police, military and certain farmers. your more likly to get attacked by a nut with a samuria sword than a gun over here

remeber...you have to hit your opponant with a gun to kill them..hence differnt firearms are suited to differnt conditions of combat. guns are more restrictive than blades.....well that depends of course what blades lol.

is any of this helping.

[Ultima Shadow]

I have ANOTHER 2 questions for ya. Is it possible to beat a pretty skilled figther with a sword if you are unarmed. I mean, how whould you avoid to get hit and still be able to smach the figther down?

How/where can I buy a good broad sword? (No, I'm not going to walk around and kill people with it. I just like to have a good sword because I like swords. :D )

[Snowman]

yes. it gets harder or easyer depending on your location. you may think a empty hall means you wont stand a chance....but last month one of teh second yeasr studants....with four people on his team against one opponant (and he's half decent) he flew in really fast with a dead sure kill and became tangled up in a curtain that was tied back against the wall. he was so deeply into the fight he made a mistake that he rarely ever makes and the opponant got away. but yes....thers many ways to disarm an armed opponant of any skill. we dont teach them untill your decent with a weapon otherwise fear of the uncontrolled will cause you or teh other to have an accident

a good sword depends what your after. many people want a pretty sword..for their wall. this means you dont need to have a tang - the mettle of the blade that carrys into the grip, you dont need a hardy standard of steel or even an edge or good fittings. if you want to join nutters and smash each other then you need a very robust sword that will be easily replaced. if you want to find the warriors path, with a good quality sword that should last you a lifetime of controlled skilled combat and mantle peice attention then you need the kind of sword my farther makes....depdning on it's shape and style it can range from £300 upwards. he rarely makes them now because it can take alot out of you. your best bet it to start on ebay. buy something you like and learn about swords with it. THEN when you know and feel what you want buy a REAL sword

[Rase]

Dark.....first, let me point out from my point of view, theres a differnce to being trained well, and being a natural..
this is a distinction ignored or misunderstood in most combat classes. soemone can be trained well, they can become damn good, but they will never be as....natural as a natural. example - someone who requires/needs to be tought how to use weapons where as a natural can teach themselves in a matter of minutes like me..

That is how I feel. That's how that 14 year old kid is playing soccer with the big guys - he's a natural soccer player. Like you, I think I'm a natural, though not with swords, but with knives (hence my example of me and knives).


considering daggers and real knifes and the chaos of battle then yes..it is possible to defeat an opponant who weilds a firearm with a dagger or knife. it's easy to think of a situation where you WOULDNT win, perahps your on all fours and the gun is a hair trigger pressed againt your temple...but thats the chaos of battle. a combatant whos trained in knife work is less likly to be as adaptable as a natural warrior/fighter. longwinded i know..but my answear is yes. WE are the weapons, we are dangerous, everything else is simply a tool..

I wasn't thinking in battle, or in a comprimising position. I meant like in contests, where there are two peopl between 3 and 8 feet apart that begin at the count of three (or whatever you want to signify starting).


However the statement you quated me was actually directed at combat against any martial arts....weapons, styles.

Sorry for the misquote. I'll disregard the rest of that paragraph.

[QUOTE=Snowman]
remeber...you have to hit your opponant with a gun to kill them..hence differnt firearms are suited to differnt conditions of combat. guns are more restrictive than blades.....well that depends of course what blades lol.

How are guns more restrictive than blades? You must hit your opponent with you blade also, and, unless your within about 7 feet of your opponent, it can be a lot harder. Yes, different guns are suited for different conditions, and yes, this is restrictive, but not nearly enough to make them less effective than blades.


is any of this helping.

If it isn't, it's sure fun.

[Snowman]

glad we agree. i dont much like oriental weaponry...it's predominatly weak.....but when a studant wanted to bring along their nunchuks, nightsticks etc i didnt say a thing and i allowed him to glow. when i went home and got my hands on nunchuks, sais (i already ahd a nightstick) it took me a couple of minutes in teh living room to work out how you would fight with them. i didnt need a teacher or a book, i can do it with anything that can kill lol.
this is where alot of people online who i canrt just take and show outside disagree with me......many times ive encounterd, seen and had to overcome the problems kata gives people. it generally makes people slower, less responsive and poorer fighters. we end up having to strip them back and rebuild so that they can keep up with the beginers. there are moves you wouldnt do sparring like gougin eyeballs etc because you dont want to go to hospital....but i dont see teh point in practising and learning things that are soly for showing off or passing tests. it always overcomplicates those studants who come with that nonsense in their heads

well in that instance....you could give them a bow and they would have an advantage....and advantage, but it doesnt mean they would win. that instance is really set up in the guns favour. when we let people do mass battles, melaess, one on one, three on one etc. the interesting thing is to see where and how they start, how close they are. but teh most important thing is we teach the groups how to heard and we teach individuals how to heard the groups. a fight is free, moving around, climbing, jumping.

right...youve got a broadsword...hand and a half, and if you know what your doing you can use it in almost any situation against any weapon. youve got a mimigun, your barely manuverable, waighed down, you carnt do much in a tight squezze. with guns not only are you dealing with a complex mechanism which can fail at any moment, but youve got kick, youve got to shoot right (sounds silly but the calm slower man shoots straighter). reload, heat, shape, size restrictions (defelctions, distance). with a sword youve got what youve got. a staff carnt get any simpler...good rule of knifes and daggers - pointy end first lol

this is what i keep saying.....you should be willing to bet your life on your skill.

[Rase]

glad we agree.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Wow, that's new.


i dont much like oriental weaponry...it's predominatly weak.....but when a studant wanted to bring along their nunchuks, nightsticks etc i didnt say a thing and i allowed him to glow. when i went home and got my hands on nunchuks, sais (i already ahd a nightstick) it took me a couple of minutes in teh living room to work out how you would fight with them. i didnt need a teacher or a book, i can do it with anything that can kill lol.

Exactly how I feel.


this is where alot of people online who i canrt just take and show outside disagree with me......many times ive encounterd, seen and had to overcome the problems kata gives people. it generally makes people slower, less responsive and poorer fighters. we end up having to strip them back and rebuild so that they can keep up with the beginers. there are moves you wouldnt do sparring like gougin eyeballs etc because you dont want to go to hospital....but i dont see teh point in practising and learning things that are soly for showing off or passing tests. it always overcomplicates those studants who come with that nonsense in their heads.

There really IS no point to showing off. I mean, I'm good with daggers/knives, but can I twirl them on my fingers? No. Do I need to? No. The only thing I need to do is block, stab, and SOMETIMES throw.


well in that instance....you could give them a bow and they would have an advantage....and advantage, but it doesnt mean they would win. that instance is really set up in the guns favour. when we let people do mass battles, melaess, one on one, three on one etc. the interesting thing is to see where and how they start, how close they are. but teh most important thing is we teach the groups how to heard and we teach individuals how to heard the groups. a fight is free, moving around, climbing, jumping.

Yes, I understand that part.


right...youve got a broadsword...hand and a half, and if you know what your doing you can use it in almost any situation against any weapon. youve got a mimigun, your barely manuverable, waighed down, you carnt do much in a tight squezze. with guns not only are you dealing with a complex mechanism which can fail at any moment, but youve got kick, youve got to shoot right (sounds silly but the calm slower man shoots straighter). reload, heat, shape, size restrictions (defelctions, distance). with a sword youve got what youve got. a staff carnt get any simpler...good rule of knifes and daggers - pointy end first lol.

Well, not many people bring a mimigun to battle. I didn't even know what one was and had to do an Image search. Most people, when thier
taking a gun to a fight take something smaller. Take this Sub-machine gun. http://64.225.91.143/BRS030603/BRS810g.JPG
It's relativly compact, smaller than the sword, looks like it's got a good sized magazine. Yes, it COULD fall apart at any moment, but what are the odds of this happening with a brand new gun? Unless you bought it on the black market, it'll likely last at least 5 years. Reloading will likely not be a porblem from the size of the clip and if you you have to, it's not that hard and doesn't take more than 1-2 seconds. Shooting right shouldn't be a problem, unless you've never shot in your life, in which case you'll get the hang of it pretty quick. Yes, there's recoil, but all you do is compensate by slightly pushing it down on the target again. Or just use a Burst Fire. I tried to choose a gun that was made for close quaters like the sword is and not something like a sniper rifle. But I have no doubt a good gunman can kill a good swordman with nothing more than a sidearm easily.

[Snowman]

combat is something people seldom agree on. many people will stick to what they know despite it being proven wrong in their faces. but i belive combat is a very simple black and white...right and wrong. and the reason many DONT agree is they lack experiance not only against combat with anyone..but REAL combat

i was offline for so long because a storm took out the phoneline and BT claimed they wouldnt fix it for a week....gits

it's good when you can.....but it means you have to work harder to understand people who carnt.

well youve gotta learn the differcne from showing off and discovering your weapon. studants love it when we get them flipping broad swords in teh air and catching them....doing ever more complicated twirls and flips. they are having fun, but what they are really doing is discovering their levels of control and balance, they are getting to know the swords as an extention of themselves....understanding how far they can push it....so yes you DO need to. like learning to draw you have to be in control of teh pencil unitll it's an extention of your self...same with knifes and daggers. then teh funny faces start as they think you carnt fight swords with daggers and i do it lol

mimigun lol....i didnt mean that i meant a Minigun....good ol arnie from T2

biggest mistake of you useing that gun.....on automatic youve used every bullet in a heartbeat....bbbrrrrtttt and your empty which leaves you very vulnerable. remeber in the matrix neo needed lotsa guns because in the time to reload he would have been pounced upon. whats more it is easy for most automatic guns to jap....it's like useing a pencil or useing a computer..the computer is far more likely to mess itself up. as for a Good gunman killing a Good swordsman...sorry but combat for real isnt that simple. ive beaten invinceable opponants in my time who by all the rules couldnt be killed..shit happens.

[Dragonfire]

FFIV Cid!

I mean c'mon, how many times did that guy survive an almost certain death!?

[Cloud Strife.]

If everything from final fantasy were in a battle cactaur would win. :)

[Rase]

it's good when you can.....but it means you have to work harder to understand people who carnt.

Trust me, I understanding, mostly because I'm fortunate enough to have understanding people in my life.


well youve gotta learn the differcne from showing off and discovering your weapon. studants love it when we get them flipping broad swords in teh air and catching them....doing ever more complicated twirls and flips. they are having fun, but what they are really doing is discovering their levels of control and balance, they are getting to know the swords as an extention of themselves....understanding how far they can push it....so yes you DO need to. like learning to draw you have to be in control of teh pencil unitll it's an extention of your self...same with knifes and daggers. then teh funny faces start as they think you carnt fight swords with daggers and i do it lol

I know the difference between showing off and discovering my weapon. While twirling a dagger isn't needed, it does help you with controling it more steadily, like you said.


mimigun lol....i didnt mean that i meant a Minigun....good ol arnie from T2

LOL, oh okay.


biggest mistake of you useing that gun.....on automatic youve used every bullet in a heartbeat....bbbrrrrtttt and your empty which leaves you very vulnerable. remeber in the matrix neo needed lotsa guns because in the time to reload he would have been pounced upon. whats more it is easy for most automatic guns to jap....it's like useing a pencil or useing a computer..the computer is far more likely to mess itself up. as for a Good gunman killing a Good swordsman...sorry but combat for real isnt that simple. ive beaten invinceable opponants in my time who by all the rules couldnt be killed..shit happens.

Well, while I don't exactly now it's true for this gun, almost all Sub Machine Guns have a Burst option and a Full Auto option. Full Auto is, like you elequently put it, "bbbrrrrtttt". But Burst Fire fires only 3 shots in quick order. The reason Neo didn't use Burst was because there were several opponents with guns. One opponent with a sword would not require such force, and therefore you could use the Burst Fire more effectively in this scernerio.

[Snowman]

cactaur cactaur...he should win

i type so fast and then move on ive said some strange things in my time lol

yeah if your gonna stand there and take it....but then if we have a sword...we will likly have a sheild :).

bottom line, guns make you weak

[aeris2001x2]

but these weaklings will oftern defeat the strong with there guns...

[Rase]

yeah if your gonna stand there and take it....but then if we have a sword...we will likly have a sheild :).

Okay, first, where'd the sheild come from? That wasn't there earlier.
Second, if the first matchlock guns could penetrate armor until it was so thick it was useless,, why would a sheild work bettter, unless it's rather thick.


bottom line, guns make you weak

Wait, so people like soldiers in the military are weak?


It's not that guns make you weak, it's just that all you rely on is the Guns so that when the gun is knocked outta your hand, then your absolutely defenceless.

First, guns are made to defeat the opponent at a range without allowing them to get near you, so if you can't do that, don't use a gun.
Second, if your using a gun to fight and your smart, you keep three weapons on your person. First, your main gun. Second, your sidearm (pistol). Lastly, a knife. So you never loose your gun and just stand there, you whip out your pistol/knife and continue to fight.

[Snowman]

it isnt the weaklings who destroy foes...it's a violent force of nature harnessed for a purely destructive act. you have no right killing unless you can do it up close and personnal....guns act like magic, they remove the skill and ability from the combatent...they leave the combatent relying on this thunderbolt, they grant the thunderbolt to people who cannot control it and should never have such power

"It's not that guns make you weak, it's just that all you rely on is the Guns so that when the gun is knocked outta your hand, then your absolutely defenceless.".....and you dont see that as weak how?. people who rely on guns are already weak, they ask for the power of the gods without earning or leanring the skill themselves, and so children shoot each other and people carry them on the streets. certainly a gun CAN be used well with a skill and professtionalism....but so can a kitchen knife and fork. MOST poeple, despite what they know..belive a gun is a magical solution...just point it and it will do everything...blow open the heavens, strike down the robber and turn him to ash.
i didnt know we were STILL talking about your hypothetical situation
soildgers...yes. the majority of them today are pathetic and pale in comparison to past warriors even from the second world war. we have middle class men with the mentle attitude of children running around with big guns and picking up handgrandes that are about to blow up. they pilot themselves into enemy territory and get captured, they operate with substandard equipment and crash themselves, even the SAS arent what they used to be. My grandfarther who was a commando in WW2 came back destroyed, but he had killed men with his barehands, blown up limbs over hid body and such terrors would make todays warriors piss their pants.

im sorry Dark but your showing your lack of combat clearly...i wish life and the fight was a clear cut as you make out, it would make my days easier. out of ten opponants 9 dont actually know what they are doing and the tenth doesnt know how to do it when the time comes

[Rase]

it isnt the weaklings who destroy foes...it's a violent force of nature harnessed for a purely destructive act. you have no right killing unless you can do it up close and personnal....guns act like magic, they remove the skill and ability from the combatent...they leave the combatent relying on this thunderbolt, they grant the thunderbolt to people who cannot control it and should never have such power
"It's not that guns make you weak, it's just that all you rely on is the Guns so that when the gun is knocked outta your hand, then your absolutely defenceless.".....and you dont see that as weak how?. people who rely on guns are already weak, they ask for the power of the gods without earning or leanring the skill themselves, and so children shoot each other and people carry them on the streets. certainly a gun CAN be used well with a skill and professtionalism....but so can a kitchen knife and fork. MOST poeple, despite what they know..belive a gun is a magical solution...just point it and it will do everything...blow open the heavens, strike down the robber and turn him to ash.


So I take it your one who believes that guns shouldn't have every existed?



soildgers...yes. the majority of them today are pathetic and pale in comparison to past warriors even from the second world war. we have middle class men with the mentle attitude of children running around with big guns and picking up handgrandes that are about to blow up. they pilot themselves into enemy territory and get captured, they operate with substandard equipment and crash themselves, even the SAS arent what they used to be. My grandfarther who was a commando in WW2 came back destroyed, but he had killed men with his barehands, blown up limbs over hid body and such terrors would make todays warriors piss their pants.

Okay, so your grandfather did. Did the majority of them soldiers in WWII kill men with thier barehands. There are always exceptional soldiers who are stronger of will then the others, it's been that way for centuaries.


im sorry Dark but your showing your lack of combat clearly...i wish life and the fight was a clear cut as you make out, it would make my days easier. out of ten opponants 9 dont actually know what they are doing and the tenth doesnt know how to do it when the time comes

For one, there is no need to apoligize. Second, your absolutly correct, if by combat experience you mean actual life and death fighting. I do training, practice, and simulations. I never wish to take another humans life, but would like to be prepared to if I need to. That's why I'm trained with guns and knives, so I can handle either situation.

[Del Murder]

Hey guys, take the discussion of weaponry to another topic please, or use pms.

[Rase]

LOL, I just remebered this thread wasn't about what we were talking/arguing about. If you don't mind, I'm gonna stop posting, so we won't be accused of tying to hijacking the thread or anything.

Dang, I knew I should just listened to myself.

[Snowman]

nope, guns shouldnt have existed, they took mankind and his desperation to cause pain and kill to a whole new level, same way biochemical weapons are bordering on an entire new level and it helped mans..shall we say downfall. Before war was a horrifiying thing, mens guts leaked out all over your boots, heads came straght off or you died of infections. The same thing still happend with guns, but it wasnt in your face, it was often at a distance and teh distance has gotten bigger ever since. with guns getting better the damage isnt as much. certainly it's worse than hollywood protrays it, but it has helped create this lack of responsibility in the everyday person

nope the majority of men died that way. they had bayanetts thrust into their stomachs, they blew up into gorey peices from landmines, eyeballs exploding like a sun and emptying out of the skull. yes many men did kill that way and many died that way.

i knew alot of 12th dans and dedicated black belts who got beaten and robbed by kids (12 and 17 year olds). practise doesnt always make perfect. if you can kill and defeat opponants, it's in you all the time, it's a part of you and you know as you beat your sparring partner that you pulled your blows and they lived. you dont have to tell them, but it will always be a part of you. of course guns as a weapon, of course in situations you may use them, you may choose to wound with them as you may choose to weild a non stick frying pan. but guns are a cheap, easy tool.

[Wilder]

no no no, The Strongest and beautifull caracther of all the Final Fantasy is lady TIFA , she can beat your 100.000 Hp ass in a single turn. I have not healed yet cause she prefer Cloud !.

[Snowman]

so english isnt your natural tounge then :) dont worry i still understood you and i agree, i think Tifa is one of the strongest
.
.
but dell, weapons are still a reflection of the topic. laguna uses a gas powerd machine gun while guns are almost non existant in FFx. the fact that swords face guns and other such weaponry combines with skills can effect who is a stronger character

[Ultima Shadow]

but dell, weapons are still a reflection of the topic. laguna uses a gas powerd machine gun while guns are almost non existant in FFx. the fact that swords face guns and other such weaponry combines with skills can effect who is a stronger character
Agreed! And so the disscusion goes on... but seriously... if all the characters were put in coloseum to figth each other all at once... do you still think Tifa would win? Shadow would be the champion! Interceptor don't care about atractive girls. And Shadow just pick up the weapons from the killed characters and trow them at the remaining characters. :D

[Wilder]

yeah, you noticed it , my native language is Spanish, so I making a little effort to write in this forum. Shadow ?, think about it, he would just leave and vanish before all the battle begins , like he always do. and then Tifa Win and do the best victory pose in all the final fantasy serie.

[Snowman]

well Ultima...JUST because Tifa is premarily a hand to hand combative doesnt mean that she carnt also use many weapons. after all we teach you to use the same moves that you use with a sword in hand to hand. also, consider that Tifa's expertise is with hands....hand to eye cordination, reflexes, useing someone elses own force and power against them..it all lends itself to deflecting and avoiding projectile weaponry. she will close teh distance quite easily untill throwing weapons becomes less useful and then she has her devestating chain attacks. her looks simply distract the distractable.

spanish..i see, well stick around, if theres any words that someone says that are strange or confusing i will be happy to explain (i mean that in a helpful way).

ninjas tend to be cowardly. sure shadow could use nija nonsense to evade attention untill the finish, but at the end of teh day the only way to finsh tifa stealthy would be to be on top of her..and then it would be too late for him

[Ultima Shadow]

Bah, SHADOW is all but cowardly (he runs into that house that's on fire to save you etc)! And he also have super reflexes. :D And he have his well trained dog...

[Snowman]

i never said shadow was a coward...i said ninja in general are lol. perhaps between Tifa and shadow we would see a REAL fight. the true warrior doesnt want the fight to end and should be able to carry on all night without stopping. you cherish your opponant because of their skills

[Ultima Shadow]

Ok... Tifa and Shadow would slay everyone else and then marry and live happy the rest of their lives. :love:
Lucky Shadow. :mad:

Oh, and one more thing... strongest FF character... does that include non-playable characters?
If so... then Gilgamesh would slay everyone with his 1 dammage Excalipoor!!! :eek:
I have always wondered what Excalipoor would be like if it was real. I mean... a sword that can't cause any noticable harm no matter how hard you hit!

[Wilder]

If we begin to put non-playables characters in the fight , very soon the fight would become the bloody match between All the WEAPONS !, let Tifa and Shadow beat each other while we wait to buy FFXII

[FFFreakX-2]

Oh man Tidus All The Way I Had Him Doin Over 20 000 Damage And His Overdrives Were Crazy I Killed Omega Weapon In 1 Hit With The Blitz Attack Tres Nutty

[Snowman]

try useing a foam sword Ultima, it's hard enough to get the things not to bend lol

[Ultima Shadow]

try useing a foam sword Ultima, it's hard enough to get the things not to bend lol
Ok, I'll check that out sometime. :D
Also, FFFreakX-2... if you only count stats and moves etc, then Tidus is still not the strongest since Wakkas final limmit is even more powerfull. And no matter how much dammage Tidus can do... if any character from FFVIII uses a hero he is invurnable and Tidus can't survive the KotR summon.

[FFFreakX-2]

Ultima Summon Well I Guess But Its Just My Opion Sooo... And Plus That The Strongest I Habe Ever Gotten Anybody Sooo...

[Snowman]

the thing is Ultima, over here not many people do real swordfighting any more. so now theres a small generation of people who do "live roleplay" and they tend to fight with these lighter than air, foam swords with (sometimes) a plastic core. it's ideal for making FF swords but when you fight, even gently they bend around each other. imagine a full size and looks buster sword that wraps around your body as it makes contact lol.

[Ultima Shadow]

the thing is Ultima, over here not many people do real swordfighting any more.
Ofcourse... is there any place AT ALL where many people do real sword figthing any more?... :( :cry:

so now theres a small generation of people who do "live roleplay" and they tend to fight with these lighter than air, foam swords with (sometimes) a plastic core. it's ideal for making FF swords but when you fight, even gently they bend around each other. imagine a full size and looks buster sword that wraps around your body as it makes contact lol.
Yea, it's sad that live roleplay swords is so ligth. I want to do a roleplay Ultima Weapon sword (not as big as the one Cloud or Ultima Weapon FFVIII weilds lol). But... it won't be as heavy as it should be. That's sad.

[Snowman]

well when i was a kid re-inacters who fought every weekend and waged huge battles across the country were the norm. everysunday me and my parents did it (my parents ran the group - the nights templar). then most people stopped because computers came along in leaps and bounds. now people who would go out and fight are playing final fantasy. most people who stuck with it have become stuck up....claiming they are pros, researching history and teaching a very very dangerous, stupid and poor form of fighting.

now people watch FF and get teh sillyest notions of fighting from it. you should read how cray the people at tenchu are..thye have no clue

[Ultima Shadow]

now people watch FF and get teh sillyest notions of fighting from it. you should read how cray the people at tenchu are..thye have no clue
Tenchu? Ah, never mind...
Don't worry... just beacuse I want to do a sword that looks like the Ultima Weapon doesn't mean I figth turnbased. lol

[Snowman]

this tenchu guy started telling me how swords have no application in the world today.....i pointed out, apart from teh large instances of sword related crimes in the UK has he not heard or walking sticks, staffs, baseball bats, poolcues stray lumps of wood or mop handles not to forget his hands.

[Del Murder]

I agree that weapons play a part in this topic, but the tangent you two went off on was more about the weapons and less about the characters who wield them. So stick with the characters, because guns don't kill people, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!

I think Cloud is the strongest because Knights of the Round cannot be easily matched.

[Ultima Shadow]

I agree that weapons play a part in this topic, but the tangent you two went off on was more about the weapons and less about the characters who wield them. So stick with the characters, because guns don't kill people, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!

I think Cloud is the strongest because Knights of the Round cannot be easily matched.
But most FF characters/people kill people with WEAPONS. :p
But I know what you mean. As Snowman said, YOU are the weapon.

Anyway... all this depends on how the characters would be armed. I mean if Cloud HAVE KotR then he may win... but what if he do NOT have it? What about the characters own strength? Not summon powers and stuff like that.
I go for Tifa and Shadow. :)

[Snowman]

actually Del.....bullets kill people, guns instill a sense of power into individuals which they would not have if they had to rely on hand to hand combat or real weaponry.

as for going off on a tangent, we didnt. i was educating certain individuals to the realitys of sword play and mixed combat. Final fantasy helps instill this false sense of reality which was already fundamentaly there due to many hollywood and martial arts movies. and FF does attempt to create a realistic fantasy world. we talked about weapons the same way me may compare summons etc

exactly Ulitma...cloud was intruduced with nights of the round...it's a summon, in that case you could use Yuna and all her aeons. who have protective anhd offensive magics. yojimbo could simply kill everyone given enough money.

[Demerwen Owns]

Master from FF1 kthx.