Farenheit 9/11

[nik0tine]

hey, who is going to see farenheit 9/11 tommorow?
and when it is tommorow, discuss the movie if you have seen it.

[Jebus]

I doubt I can see it tomorrow due to lack of money, but I would like to see it nonetheless.

[Leeza]

Can't see it tomorrow because it more than likely won't be in our town for at least another month, but I want to see it.

[Miriel]

While I admire Michael Moore quite a bit, and especially loved Bowling for Columbine, I get the feeling that Fahrenheit 9/11 will basically be a 2 hour personal assult on Bush rather than anything truly insightful and thought-provoking. I already know Bush is an idiot, and I'm not sure I really want to spend 9 bucks to watch Anti-bush propaganda.

I'll probably just netflix it when it comes out on DVD.

[The Captain]

More or less what Miriel wrote, though I may get around to seeing it while it is still in theaters.

Above all else, I'm grateful to Mike Moore because he's made the common person interested in documentaries again, which is a shame because there have been so many of them recently that have been brushed aside. Hopefully, more people will want to see documentaries, not because they will be anything like Moore's work, but because it could pique their interests.

Take care all.

[Fuzakeru]

Moore did bring an interest back to documentaries and his are usually good ( although I don't like his opinion at all ).
. . . I refuse to see this one until later on when I can rant in the comfort of my own house though cause it WILL be nothing but Bush bashing and I'm a hardcore Republican who supports Bush. -sage nod-

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I'd watch it just because I like Bush bashing, but I hear this one is pretty heavy handed and you pretty much already know going into it whether you'll like it or hate it. It's made for the half of the population that hates Bush already, it seems.

[TheAbominatrix]

I'll be going to see it at 11am my time, so I'll come back and tell everyone what I thought. I'm very eager to see it.

[Shoeberto]

I think Michael Moore is a big fat jerk >=O

Emphasis on "big" and "fat."

I don't like Bush or the war, but he brings new meaning to the word "exploitation."

[muchacho]

I think Michael Moore is a big fat jerk >=O

Emphasis on "big" and "fat."

he brings new meaning to the word "exploitation."

i dont think i could have said it better my self. *stands and applauds*

[Mr. Graves]

LKooks interesting, but I think documentaries are rental material, and not anything to go to the theatre over.

Gotta give the guy credit for risking his reputation to speak his mind, though. Not many people have that kind of courage.

[muchacho]

LKooks interesting, but I think documentaries are rental material, and not anything to go to the theatre over.

Gotta give the guy credit for risking his reputation to speak his mind, though. Not many people have that kind of courage.

WHAT REPUTATION???? even if he did have one he wouldnt need to risk it cause it sucks as it is.

[HOOTERS]

I'll probably wait til it comes out on video, hopefully it's as funny as Stupid White Men and his TV show. :smash:

[TheAbominatrix]

Well, I just got back from seeing it.

It was an important, powerful peice. Say what you want about Moore, but he does a good job at exposing lies and bringing them to the common people. He's also pretty darn funny. A lot of the movie was aimed directly at Bush (I learned some very interesting things) but a lot was also directed just to the soldiers in Iraq. Both sides of the soldiers were shown, as well as the Iraqi civilians, and pre-war Baghdad (which I never knew was so beautiful). There's some very graphic scenes there. He also shows this woman a few times.. the mother of a soldier, and how her opinions change on the war, especially after she loses her son.

I do recommend everyone see this, if everyone can put aside their prejudices of Moore. It's a very good film, and if nothing else, you may learn something.

And by the way, it doesnt make you look very mature, Muchacho, if you go around insulting something trivial like the man's weight. If you dont like him, fine, but dont insult his size.

[Fuzakeru]

He makes Farenheit 9/11 like he honestly cares but it's just an excuse to bash Bush. He doesn't give a damn about any of the American people . . . why do you ask? Perhaps because we are the dumbest people on the planet . . .
“They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet ... in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pricks. We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don’t know about anything that’s happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing.” - Michael Moore - Source (http://www.msnbc.com/news/970612.asp?0cv=CB20&cp1=1)

Michael Moore isn't smart and he SURE as hell isn't funny. In his "comedy act" at a London club he babbles about the heroes on Flight 93 ( Jeremy Glick, Edward Felt, Mark Bingham, Todd Beamer, and the other passengers. These are the people who took down the hijackers and possibly saved the Capital or the White House. Nonetheless, here's his response about them . . . which I find highly racist. Not only that but he has been quoted this 'Funny line' many times.
"the passengers were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes." - Michael Moore - Source (http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030111-6357097.htm)

. . . this man is a bastard and I hate him. :mad2:

[Mr. Graves]

...spoken like a rabid conservative. Nice.

[TheAbominatrix]

You havent even seen the movie yet. See it before you bash it, or don't bash it. I really don't care if you don't like the man, and immeadiatly writing off everything he's said as dumb because you dont agree with some other things he's said seems, well, dumb.

But you're entitled to your opinion. Hate the man all you want.

And, frankly, I agree with what Micheal Moore says about the American people. We are dumb. Most of us dont read the paper, we dont bother to find out about what's going on in the world, we're self-centered and egocentric. We're dumb. And you'll notice he includes himself in those statements. That's why he makes these movies and writes these books, because it does all the footwork and digging that your average American (myself included) doesnt want to spend the time to do.

[Dingo Jellybean]

You havent even seen the movie yet. See it before you bash it, or don't bash it. I really don't care if you don't like the man, and immeadiatly writing off everything he's said as dumb because you dont agree with some other things he's said seems, well, dumb.

But you're entitled to your opinion. Hate the man all you want.

And, frankly, I agree with what Micheal Moore says about the American people. We are dumb. Most of us dont read the paper, we dont bother to find out about what's going on in the world, we're self-centered and egocentric. We're dumb. And you'll notice he includes himself in those statements. That's why he makes these movies and writes these books, because it does all the footwork and digging that your average American (myself included) doesnt want to spend the time to do.

I actually wish there were more people like Michael Moore.

Anyone who has lived in the US and gone through college and communicated with the daily people in their lives sees the truth in Moore's statements. We are pretty dumb. Our education policy is based off of German school organization. The Japanese outsell most American vehicles and electronics and currently dominates the US gaming market. See, I don't mind when people in the US accuse the US of being dumb, but it's so damn annoying when you get those UK bashers who claim the US is dumb.

Most Americans in this country just stock groceries, work on cars, and do other manual labor and because of their lack of education, it's so easy to sway them into patriotism and nationalism. It's really the older American generation(mainly our parents' generation) that sees themselves as "elite" in some intellectual form or another. Not only that, Americans are lazy. We don't need to see how fat half of America is to realize that. I know many of America's parents can hardly help their children with Algebra, and the only reason why some of them have good-paying jobs is because of seniority, more so than hard work and intelligence. Many of them couldn't even copy and paste for crying out loud. Then you have this whole stupid Atkins diet thing...it's all for a quick fix to a problem that should be solved over time, not over night.

But eh...I'm an advocate for Michael Moore. We don't need anymore Rush Limbaughs in this country...that much I can live with.

[Fuzakeru]

Yes, you are right. I can't bash Farenheit 9/11 due to the fact I haven't seen it yet but his opinions that I don't agree on DO play a huge role on his credibility for me.
I can't seem to veiw or read anything of his without finding myself disgusted. He's taken ever oppurtunity to bash Bush in the past and I don't see this as being anything different. If he wants to make a document on 9/11, fine by me. I'm sure there'll be LOTS of them in the future by others. However, I find it hard to take his work seriously when he says how stupid we are and OBVIOUSLY points FUN ( FUN AT IN A LONDON CLUB!!!! MAKING PEOPLE LAUGH AT THOSE WHO ARE DEAD TO SAVE LIVES! ) at those on Flight 93. I don't care if GOD said it, I'd still be pissed off. I don't get angry at those quotes because they are HIS alone. Trust me. There are other idiots in the world I don't like. ^_^-
I'm not bashing anyone else's opinion but just stating mine. And yes, I am a rabid conservative. :love:

Edit - Oh yeah. You are right. We don't need anymore Limbaughs since the one we have alone is great enough. We could use a few more Sean Hannitys though. ^_^ By the way, since the whole point of this thread is to dicuss the MOVIE itself and not Michael Moore I'll stop posting in here and make a seperate thread if ranting about the man becomes amusing. Sorry!!

[Mr. Graves]

We need more Moore more than we need more Limbaughs, I think. *nod*

BTW, anyone else find it funny that some guy is coming out with an anti-Micheal Moore documentary? Someone has too much time on his hands....

[Jebus]

We don't need anymore Limbaughs since the one we have alone is great enough.

Yeah, considering the guy's a racist moron.

Of course everything I say here is just gonna get me pegged as a rabid liberal which is definatly true.

I really want to see this movie. I've read that alot of the stuff in the movie most people would already know by watching the news. Well I have kept up with some of it, so I know pretty much what to expect, expecially since its from Moore, who could be considered OUR Rush Limbaugh if you will :D. Racist comments or no, the man is right. We are stupid. We are one of the worst educated countries on the planet. Although I do believe making a comment about people who died is stepping over the line.

[Trumpet Thief]

I agree with everything you have been saying The Abominatrix, and I do recommend this movie to everyone. He had exposed many things about the Bush Administration, which at the beginning, no one believed, until they saw them slip themselves.

[TheAbominatrix]

Disliking Moore's opinions is fine, but ignoring the facts he reveals (yes, <i>facts</i>, feel free to double check them) is shutting yourself off in a bubble and ignoring the truth.

And, as I said before, Moore doesnt spend all of the movie bashing Bush. It's obvious that he doesnt like him, but he reveals all the facts he's found out and moves on to the goings on in Iraq. I dont blame him for bashing a man who ignores a security briefing labeled 'Al Queda plans to attack a U.S. target in the near future' (or something to that effect), in fact ignores terrorism threats completly, until the proverbial crap hits the fan.

[Mr. Graves]

Of course everything I say here is just gonna get me pegged as a rabid liberal which is definatly true.

Something to be proud of, though.

[Casey]

LKooks interesting, but I think documentaries are rental material, and not anything to go to the theatre over.

Gotta give the guy credit for risking his reputation to speak his mind, though. Not many people have that kind of courage.


Exactly, Im not going to see this movie in theaters, and its a left wing movie, and so are all the hollywood movie stars, and except a few maybe... Like Mel Gibson, Bruce Willis,Kurt Russel,Arnold Schwarzenegger,Charlton Heston, and Tom Selleck. ETC. This movie deserves to be rented though. Even though most of hollywood is liberal, they do make some good movies, politics and making movies are two different things though, this one is clearly a political movie.

[Fuzakeru]

More on Moore and Fahrenheit 9/11 - From NewsMax

It's clear that Michael Moore has gone off the deep end when even Democrats compare him to the Nazis' master of propaganda:

"Hollywood agent and Kerry supporter Tom Baer told me, 'Kerry should flee Moore's movie. It's Goebbels all over again." This quotation comes not from Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh but from a column in the Washington Post by Tina Brown, a queen of the liberal media establishment.

Christopher Hitchens, a contributor to such partisan publications as New Left Review and The Nation, writes for Slate: "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of 'dissenting' bravery."

Andrew Sullivan, a former editor at the liberal New Republic: "Moore is beneath contempt."

[Shadow Nexus]

More on Moore and Fahrenheit 9/11 - From NewsMax

It's clear that Michael Moore has gone off the deep end when even Democrats compare him to the Nazis' master of propaganda:

"Hollywood agent and Kerry supporter Tom Baer told me, 'Kerry should flee Moore's movie. It's Goebbels all over again." This quotation comes not from Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh but from a column in the Washington Post by Tina Brown, a queen of the liberal media establishment.

Christopher Hitchens, a contributor to such partisan publications as New Left Review and The Nation, writes for Slate: "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of 'dissenting' bravery."

Andrew Sullivan, a former editor at the liberal New Republic: "Moore is beneath contempt."


Good!


I'll watch the movie and then decide. Well, when it comes in Spain. If it's only half as good as Bowling for Columbine it will be worth it.

[TheAbominatrix]

More on Moore and Fahrenheit 9/11 - From NewsMax

It's clear that Michael Moore has gone off the deep end when even Democrats compare him to the Nazis' master of propaganda:

"Hollywood agent and Kerry supporter Tom Baer told me, 'Kerry should flee Moore's movie. It's Goebbels all over again." This quotation comes not from Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh but from a column in the Washington Post by Tina Brown, a queen of the liberal media establishment.

Christopher Hitchens, a contributor to such partisan publications as New Left Review and The Nation, writes for Slate: "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of 'dissenting' bravery."

Andrew Sullivan, a former editor at the liberal New Republic: "Moore is beneath contempt."

And there's just as many good reviews, which I dont feel like going and grabbing and copy-pasting, but they're around. I really wish you'd at least watch the movie. Even if only to prove your point. I read conservative books and such, to find a happy medium in the truth between both sides.

[Fuzakeru]

-sighs a little- You know, you have a point. It was a little childish to post that I suppose. Alright, I don't suppose - it was childish and I apologize for it because it lowers my credibility.
However, I DO read things from a more liberal standpoint. I'm not closed minded in my beliefs but am about Michael Moore after reading and viewing his documents and his books. I WILL go and see this movie so my opinions about the movie itself aren't idle.
In fairness of it all here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/externalreviews) are more reviews.

[Shadow Nexus]

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Fahrenheit911-1133649/

Well, for now it's getting good reviews.

[nik0tine]

This was a great movie. i saw it last night. not only did it reveal the bush administrations greed, lies, and attrrocities, it was actaully entertaining, and at times. funny. everyone, liberal or conservative, should see this movie before november. there are facts in this movie that are hard to ignore.

[muchacho]

and most of those facts are inflated

[nik0tine]

that doesnt change the fact that they are, in fact, facts.

[Dingo Jellybean]

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1808569540&intl=us

Wow. The critics and movie-goers all seem to really like this movie.

[nik0tine]

and for good reason. even if you don't like moore, it was still entertaining. he did a good job.

[muchacho]

that doesnt change the fact that they are, in fact, facts.

if they were in flated they wouldnt be facts

[nik0tine]

they would be facts, just inflated facts.

[muchacho]

michael moore is one of the poorest excuses for a documentarian ever. he bends and inflates facts, meaning they are only half-truths which he uses to his advantage. most documentaries are supposed to take an objective stance in order to find the truth. moore openly admits he did not take an objective stance, and as a result

nearly every part of bowling for columbine was one falsehood or another. Even he admitted to taking certain liberties when dealing with glaring inaccuracies in that movie.

for example, in BoC when he was comparing gun cases of foreign countries to the U.S, he only counted violent crimes commited with a firearm of other countries. For the united states, he inflated that number, not only including violent crimes, but accidents, self-defense cases, police retaliations and defenses, and any instance where injury resulted and a gun was present.

dozens of examples like these permeate his movies. mark taylor, one of the kids from columbine, has actively spoken out against moore, saying he lied and manipulated him to get his way. what kind of sick human being manipulated children to get his point across?

he is canadian, not american. He makes no effort to support anything america does nor does he invest any sort of patriotism in his films. they are not to help american left patriots, they are there to inspire hatred for america. he accepts money from the canadian government, and other special interest groups linked to terrorist groups like the hezbollah.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

[Dingo Jellybean]

Well, before any of you can claim what's fact and what's not, none of you have the right to claim anything that is right or wrong.

None of you were in the White House during September 11th. Even if some of you watched entire newscasts after 9/11, it was all 2nd hand information that has a chance for error.

So inflated facts or not, none of you can truly know.

[The Captain]

Moore, Hannity, Limbaugh, Franken, they're all blowhards. Ask any of them a question and they'll seize the opportunity to prove their superior intelligence over the masses and also give in a dig against the other side. Frankly, we could do without all of them, since neither accomplishes anything besides getting people angry and screwing up progress if you ask me. The only way America is going to get through this situation in Iraq is IF we unite. Our defining power is our stubborness, our desire to not give up. However, if every Republican and Democrat only wants to yell at one another, we're going nowhere fast.

What perplexes me is this:

Hannity and his folk like to say that Liberals are just as bad as the terrorists because of some sort of funding scheme or whatever. Yet, if I was to turn this around, and say Conservatives are as bad as terrorists because of their own corrupt acts that have occurred, I'd be labeled a traitor probably. How exactly does that work? I recall somehere that what happened was Democrats allowed Republicans to set the debate and have forever since been playing catch up. To me, that makes sense, as Democrats are always and forever seen as the "scared", whilst Republicans are seen as the "Agressive".

Heck yes we're all different, with different opinions and I don't think any one of us knows more than another when it comes to which side is better or knows more. I don't think the people on either side know, but they know how to flaunt their egos.

What I believe, and what I think should be the basic, underlying principle in America right now, is what John McCain said:
"Whether we like it or not, we're in there and we MUST succeed now. Be it Kerry or Bush who gets us through this, we can't let Iraq turn into Vietnam II."

I think it's time to put aside basic differences of philosophy and find answers instead of fault in either political party. We need to help as many people as we can, and arguing ideology isn't going to help that.

I was against the war from the beginning, but my belief now is that if we're in it THIS deep, we've got to do the best we can. However, those responsible for lies and any sort of wrong-doing during this process should be brought to justice, and that includes people in our government right now. We need fresh ideas, and real truly benevolent acts to make any sort of progress. I sincerely hope someone out there steps up and finds them.

Take care all.

[DocFrance]

I can't comment on this movie because I haven't seen it yet, but I absolutely refuse to give that pathetic excuse for a documentarian any of my money. Besides, if I saw it and spoke my mind about it here, I'd probably just get dismissed as a "rabid conservative," since that seems to be the case here with anyone holding a dissenting opinion.

I refuse to see it.

[Shadow Nexus]

Besides, if I saw it and spoke my mind about it here, I'd probably just get dismissed as a "rabid conservative," since that seems to be the case here with anyone holding a dissenting opinion.

Don't worry, man, you'd still be my favourite rabid conservative in the forum.

[DocFrance]

Aw, jeez, you're makin' me blush.

You're my favorite bleeding-heart liberal :love:

[Cid]

My biggest gripe with this movie is that people call it a documentary when it is clearly not so. In his movies, he twists facts and to change the movie to his advantage. Example: The bank didn't really give out guns in bowling for Colombine, they gave a voucher to bring to the local sports store.

[Shadow Nexus]

Aw, jeez, you're makin' me blush.

You're my favorite bleeding-heart liberal :love:

We could be a comedian duet!!! :D Or comedian couple. Or whatever it's called.


My biggest gripe with this movie is that people call it a documentary when it is clearly not so. In his movies, he twists facts and to change the movie to his advantage. Example: The bank didn't really give out guns in bowling for Colombine, they gave a voucher to bring to the local sports store.

You can say it's an opinion column in the form of documentary, really. The example you put is good to show how he twists the facts, yet in the end giving a voucher to get a gun is more or less like giving the gun. There is this site called "bowling for truth" where they attempt to explain the parts of the documentary that were manipulated, and it brings up many interesting points, but also has many errors and counter-arguments that can be also be considered biased (Yes, I've read plenty of that site, and they twist some stuff too).

Still, despite this kind of biased informations he gives, he also brings up many interesting points to take into account. After all, it is true that death by guns is more present in USA than in other western countries, even in he inflated some numbers. And personally, I was rather surprised to find out there are malls in USA selling bullets like that. Well, it would feel strange for me to enter Caprabo and see they are selling bullets...

[DocFrance]

We could be a comedian duet!!! :D Or comedian couple. Or whatever it's called.
Probably not such a good idea, since I've got rabies and you're suffering from a cardiac hemmorage.

[The Captain]

I think Hope and Crosby suffered from that as well....

Take care all.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I just got back from the movie, and I thought it was pretty good myself, though I am definitely anti-Bush. And while some facts are inflated, some things are too real to ignore, such as the scenes in which they show dead Iraqi citizens, children especially, being carted off by trucks while other Iraqi citizens scream at the US for causing it, or showing some of the treatment of the prisoners by the US soldiers and having some of them speak of their mindset when fighting.

[escobert]

Moore did bring an interest back to documentaries and his are usually good ( although I don't like his opinion at all ).
. . . I refuse to see this one until later on when I can rant in the comfort of my own house though cause it WILL be nothing but Bush bashing and I'm a hardcore Republican who supports Bush. -sage nod-
SDame heerrre

[edczxcvbnm]

My biggest gripe with this movie is that people call it a documentary when it is clearly not so. In his movies, he twists facts and to change the movie to his advantage.

Well Mr. Moore doesn't like it being called a documentary either. He thinks it should be an opinion piece also but Hollywood classifies it as documentary. Opinion piece would be a sub genre of documentary just like Serial Killer movies are a sub genre of Horror Movies(which might be a sub genre of action or suspense...I really don't know).

I saw this movie and it was pretty good. For all the twisting of facts in the last movie it was much harder this time around as things like new broadcasts and senete floor stuff or things with bush on camera can't really be twisted that much. Why would Bush be on camera willing for a movie that is going to make him look really stupid?

I am sure some of the things are cut short or edited to get his opinion across but it wasn't so obvious with this movie. There is a lot less of him talking and being on screen as most everything that is really bad towards Bush and his admin is what they said.

Overall I thought it was pretty funny.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

There was a lot that was just generally anti-war though, some of the scenes were particularily good, if disgusting, as I pointed out in my prior post.

Just remembered this one...


I can't comment on this movie because I haven't seen it yet, but I absolutely refuse to give that pathetic excuse for a documentarian any of my money. Besides, if I saw it and spoke my mind about it here, I'd probably just get dismissed as a "rabid conservative," since that seems to be the case here with anyone holding a dissenting opinion

If you haven't seen it how can you call it a pathetic excuse for a documentary, especially when it really isn't one? Granted, a lot of it I know you probably won't like, but dismissing something before you've seen it isn't the most admirable thing in the world.

[DocFrance]

I'm not calling it a pathetic excuse of a documentary, I'm calling Moore a pathetic excuse for a documentarian. I refuse to give him any of my money.

[Polaris]

I'd love to see that movie but I don't think that my dad wants to waste money seeing president Bush and I don't have any friend that hates Bush!

But I'd love to see it beaxause

I hate you Bush!

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I rather enjoyed it, if you hate Bush it's definitely worth your time, I think.

[Cz]

Moore, Hannity, Limbaugh, Franken, they're all blowhards. Ask any of them a question and they'll seize the opportunity to prove their superior intelligence over the masses and also give in a dig against the other side. Frankly, we could do without all of them, since neither accomplishes anything besides getting people angry and screwing up progress if you ask me. The only way America is going to get through this situation in Iraq is IF we unite. Our defining power is our stubborness, our desire to not give up. However, if every Republican and Democrat only wants to yell at one another, we're going nowhere fast.

Absolutely right. Well said, my friend.

[XviviX]

Michael Moore does, indeed, use facts. It's the way the facts are presented that leaves the viewer with the wrong impression. That makes him dangerous.

This is a perfect example of his technique:

Would you put this player on your team?

These are statistics I pulled off of MLB.com.

This player has been in Major League Baseball since 1988. He is such a miserable failure that he has played on five different teams. Part of the reason he has bounced around so much is the fact he fails to get on base 86.9% of the time. He strikes out almost 50% of the time he steps to the plate. He has NEVER stolen a base. In sixteen years of playing professional baseball, he has hit one, and only one, homerun and a pawdry 32 RBI's.

Why do we pay to see this guy play?!

Anyone pick up on my point? Bonus points if you can tell me the player.

[nik0tine]

he is canadian, not american. He makes no effort to support anything america does nor does he invest any sort of patriotism in his films.
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/


first of all, he is from flint michigan. now i may be going out on a limb here, but i was under the impression that michigan was part of america... i could be wrong though. and as for him not being a patriot, i see no problem with that. i dont see any value in patriotism whatsoever. patriotism and nationalism dont do anything but inspire hatred, and i say we could do without them.

[TheAbominatrix]

Just because he doesnt blindly support the government doesnt make him unpatriotic. He may love this country very deeply. Of course, this is currently the way to decredit and demoralize people on the other side, to brand them as unpatriotic. How lame. Even if he is unpatriotic, who cares?

And XviviX, you explained that very well. Lots of people do that, and Moore is one of them. The facts are there, they're just presented in his way, just as any conservative would do.