What is Selphie talking about!?!?

[Lord Xehanort]

Okay, Selphie confesses to using a Guardian Force during Irvine's "I didn't have many choices" speech, right? Does the game ever reveal what that GF was??? I've searched far and wide to find that GF, yet to no avail.

[SeeDRankLou]

I think if you put some pieces of the story together you can derive which one she used. First, you have to assume that all the GFs that Squall can get plus Griever are the only GFs in the world of FFVIII. If that assumption is true then this works. Selphie says that when she was younger she equipped a GF. If you get the fake Timber Maniacs Magazine in Zell's Mom's house, there will be an additional picture in Selphie's tribute to Laguana in which she is at a field trip in the Centra Ruins when she was younger. So, she was younger when she equipped a GF and she was younger at a field trip to the Centra Ruins, so I'm guessing she equipped Tonberry. This is just my speculation though, it is never actually stated that this is the case.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

That's a really interesting theory - I had no idea we could even discern that much info from the game. But I think that's the best guess we can have; there's no way to tell at all if there are GFs we haven't heard of.

[FightClubFan#47]

and also, the sleepy guy at the bombed trabia goes "phzzz take that tonberry GF" or sumtin like it. i dont know if it means anything but ya.

[TasteyPies]

I figured he was dreaming he was battling a tonberry

Pzzz Take that tonberry! GF summoning!

[FightClubFan#47]

eh. my bad.

[BG-57]

Tiamat is also decribed a 'GF gone bad', and nobody in the party has it equipped (although it does look and behave a lot like Bahamut).

[Big D]

Selphie was talking about the GF Tonberry, I believe. We know that she went on a field trip to the Centra Ruins once, but there were heaps of monsters there. She also says she found (and temporarily used) a GF she found inside a monster, on a field trip... it all adds up.

[sephxangel]

i didn't think about it before...but yea i would guess it was tonberry. seems to make sense.

[Optium]

When she said it I originally thought maybe she was talking about Odin.
That sort of makes sense with the whole Centra Ruins theory...I think.

...?

.opt

[razor248725]

yeah but odin cant be equipped, therefore not making it that gf, and also since it cant be equipped she would still have her memories if it were odin

[Optium]

But why can't it be equipped? I haven't gotten Odin yet so I'm not
entirely sure what the whole deal is there... :confused:

.opt

[Trumpet Thief]

Odin comes like Pheonix comes, only at a more frequent rate. That means you can't choose when it comes.

As for what he does, it would be more fun if you figured that out for yourself.

[Kilika]

i do belive it is tonberry because in many a stragety guide it says that selphie must be in the party in order to get tonberry to show up after 3 billion regular tonberrry fights

[Sir Bahamut]

You're all neglecting something.

Selphie says she found the GF inside a monster.
But Toonberry is not found inside a monster, he is a monster in himself who joins you when you beat him.

So the only way it could be Toonberry is if he for some mysterious reason was inside a monster a few years ago, and I don't think that sounds very plausible, do you?

Personally, I think the GF was a GF we don't know of.

PS: Selphie does NOT have to be in your party in order to encounter him, that's rubbish. I never used Selphie in my party, and I still got him as a GF.

[Jolts]

i do belive it is tonberry because in many a stragety guide it says that selphie must be in the party in order to get tonberry to show up after 3 billion regular tonberrry fights
Like Sir Bahamut said, she does not have to be in your party, and it's not 3 billion fights, it's only aroung 20 Tonberry fights won.

As for your statement, Sir Bahamut, maybe her drawing it from a monster caused him to be free to roam around. I mean, not all GFs were in monsters, Ifrit wasn't, so maybe they were drawn some time ago, then let free.

[Sir Bahamut]

Perhaps, but I still think that makes it less plausible.

[Lady_luck_lulu]

Personally I don't know. I always guessed and thought it was Siren or Pandemoniem

[SeeDRankLou]

As for your statement, Sir Bahamut, maybe her drawing it from a monster caused him to be free to roam around. I mean, not all GFs were in monsters, Ifrit wasn't, so maybe they were drawn some time ago, then let free.

But isn't drawing an ability you get by junctioning a GF? :tongue:

Sir Bahamut, you have a point, but there are several weak monsters who hold GFs in this game, e.g. the ones that hold Carbuncle. And the monster could have already been dead when Selphie found it. So she equipped it and then let it go. Maybe that's how Tonberry King got so big, it's been lurking around for ten years.

[Sir Bahamut]

As I said, that is certainly possible, but I just don't think Square meant for us to ever find out about that GF.

I mean, there must be many many more GFs in the world than the ones the party find, and I personally think it seems more likely that it was one of those.

But that's just me.

[Jolts]

But isn't drawing an ability you get by junctioning a GF?
Yeah, but there's always the first one that just shows up.
Also, when you're in the desert prison, wether she has the ability to or not, Selphie attempts to draw and use cure on Zell.

[SeeDRankLou]

*Give Jolts a cookie :cookie: * I was just kidding.


As I said, that is certainly possible, but I just don't think Square meant for us to ever find out about that GF.

I mean, there must be many many more GFs in the world than the ones the party find, and I personally think it seems more likely that it was one of those.

But that's just me.

Square does this all the time, they will put things in the game and not directly tell you but they will greatly hint at it. Laguana being Squall's father for example. Some theories are more far-fetched than others *cough*R=U*cough*, but some do have in game evidence. Square didn't just put that comment that Selphie said about the GF for nothing. They could have easily just said that Trabadia Garden allows transfer students to practice with GFs before transfering to Balamb Garden or something like that, but they had Selphie say that specific line. Put that with the extra picture in her Shrine to Laguana. Those aren't random. I'm just saying.

[Sir Bahamut]

Yes, I am quite aware(probably more so than you) of all the theories and subtle facts and hints.

However, I am also aware of all the unexplained things/events which Square left in, things and events which we will never know the truth of.

And in this case, I think the GF belonged to the latter category.

I mean, it's not like us knowing if that GF was say Toonberry, would affect the plot in any way. It wouldn't benefit us in any way. It would just be some irrelevant additional information, and personally, I think when Square put in subtle hints, they do so because of something significant.

[Jolts]

I don't think it was Toonberry at all :p.

[SeeDRankLou]

Yes, I am quite aware(probably more so than you) of all the theories and subtle facts and hints.

However, I am also aware of all the unexplained things/events which Square left in, things and events which we will never know the truth of.

And in this case, I think the GF belonged to the latter category.

I mean, it's not like us knowing if that GF was say Toonberry, would affect the plot in any way. It wouldn't benefit us in any way. It would just be some irrelevant additional information, and personally, I think when Square put in subtle hints, they do so because of something significant.
If it was irrelevant they wouldn't have included those things I pointed out earlier. And Square doesn't leave many things unexplained in games, you just have to dig and put pieces together.

Jolts....LOL :p

[Sir Bahamut]

Actually, they do leave quite number of things unexplained. Time compression would the most glaringly obvious unexplained feature in this game.

Anyway, since you seem so determined, let's look at the things you pointed out earlier:


I think if you put some pieces of the story together you can derive which one she used. First, you have to assume that all the GFs that Squall can get plus Griever are the only GFs in the world of FFVIII. If that assumption is true then this works. Selphie says that when she was younger she equipped a GF. If you get the fake Timber Maniacs Magazine in Zell's Mom's house, there will be an additional picture in Selphie's tribute to Laguana in which she is at a field trip in the Centra Ruins when she was younger. So, she was younger when she equipped a GF and she was younger at a field trip to the Centra Ruins, so I'm guessing she equipped Tonberry. This is just my speculation though, it is never actually stated that this is the case.

1) First assumption made is that there are no more GFs in the world besides the ones you catch.

Well, way to go with a obviously flawed first assumption. Squall and Co were no the only SeeDs, and since all SeeDs need to aqquire a low level GF before graduation(in Squalls case, Ifrit) your assumption is proven wrong.

There are many more GFs in the world.

2) The picture is never revealed to be at a field trip to Centra, is it?
If it is, can you please quote it exactly?

If you are in fact correct on the second assumption, then perhaps it was Toonberry, but I doubt you are.

[Big D]

Actually, they do leave quite number of things unexplained. Time compression would the most glaringly obvious unexplained feature in this game.It's explained pretty well, so far as I can see. How it works, why it's necessary... they cover it all quite thoroughly.

2) The picture is never revealed to be at a field trip to Centra, is it?
If it is, can you please quote it exactly?

If you are in fact correct on the second assumption, then perhaps it was Toonberry, but I doubt you are.It looks like the Centra ruins, and we know for a fact that other Trabia students have encountered the Tonberry King. The guy who's talking in his sleep mumbles about summoning a GF during a fight with the Tonberry King.
So, we've got a picture of Selphie in a location that looks like the Ruins, and her testimony of acquiring a GF while on a field trip, and sleepy-guy's account of fighting the Tonberry King. There's nothing wrong with assuming this to mean that Selphie did, in fact, find the GF Tonberry, and found it at the Centra Ruins. In fact, the hints given throughout the game probably prompted a lot of gamers to search for the hidden GFs at the ruins.

Sir Bahamut, you seem to be turning this into some kind of personal, vitriolic dispute, which is quite unnecessary. Whether Selphie once junctioned Tonberry or not is a matter of personal belief, but many people believe it because of how they interpret the evidence in the game. It's no big deal, so there's no need to blow it out of proportion.

[Sir Bahamut]

It's explained pretty well, so far as I can see. How it works, why it's necessary... they cover it all quite thoroughly.

I know why it is necessarry, but how it works is left completely unexplained. Feel free to try and explain it(PM me I guess, since it would be off topic) though, I like discussing things like TC.


It looks like the Centra ruins, and we know for a fact that other Trabia students have encountered the Tonberry King. The guy who's talking in his sleep mumbles about summoning a GF during a fight with the Tonberry King.
So, we've got a picture of Selphie in a location that looks like the Ruins, and her testimony of acquiring a GF while on a field trip, and sleepy-guy's account of fighting the Tonberry King. There's nothing wrong with assuming this to mean that Selphie did, in fact, find the GF Tonberry, and found it at the Centra Ruins. In fact, the hints given throughout the game probably prompted a lot of gamers to search for the hidden GFs at the ruins.

Actually, the guy mumbles about fighting a Toonberry, not a Toonberry King.

And please, I never said there was anything wrong with the assumption, I merely said that I PERSONALLY don't think it is true.


Sir Bahamut, you seem to be turning this into some kind of personal, vitriolic dispute, which is quite unnecessary. Whether Selphie once junctioned Tonberry or not is a matter of personal belief, but many people believe it because of how they interpret the evidence in the game. It's no big deal, so there's no need to blow it out of proportion.

Excuse me, but this is exactly why it may seem like I'm getting personal about this.
I have repeatedly stated that it is only my opinion, and that I know it is a perfectly valid assumption to think it was Toonberry, I just don't agree.
I also made it quite clear that it has no plot relevance anyway, so you must be ignoring my posts completely.

Then SeedRankLou comes and starts lecturing me about the finesses in FF8, and you now make it out as if I think whoever believes it to be Toonberry is a rathing idiot.

So if you could please read my posts and stop accusing me, and SeeDRankLou could stop lecturing me(I know it's well meant, but I've been part of FF8 plot discussions for the last 2 years now, so I am fully aware off all the little finesses), everything will be fine, ok?

[UltimateSpamGrover]

I mean, there must be many many more GFs in the world than the ones the party find, and I personally think it seems more likely that it was one of those.

But that's just me.

yeah, it was RAMUH!!

[Nemesis the Warlock]

Actually, the guy mumbles about fighting a Toonberry, not a Toonberry King. He says "That Tonberry King... Take that GF summon...", at least in the English translation. There's only one "o" in the name. I bet my gunblade on that.

[Sir Bahamut]

No, this is what he says:

"Pzzz Take that tonberry! GF summoning!"

Feel free to check for yourself though.

[TasteyPies]

Yes he does say that.

After that he says something along the lines of

"GZAAaaaaazzzzzz"
I think, someone can check that for me if they want.

[SeeDRankLou]

Excuse me, but this is exactly why it may seem like I'm getting personal about this.
I have repeatedly stated that it is only my opinion, and that I know it is a perfectly valid assumption to think it was Toonberry, I just don't agree.
I also made it quite clear that it has no plot relevance anyway, so you must be ignoring my posts completely.

Then SeedRankLou comes and starts lecturing me about the finesses in FF8, and you now make it out as if I think whoever believes it to be Toonberry is a rathing idiot.

So if you could please read my posts and stop accusing me, and SeeDRankLou could stop lecturing me(I know it's well meant, but I've been part of FF8 plot discussions for the last 2 years now, so I am fully aware off all the little finesses), everything will be fine, ok?

Hey, be nice to BigD, he was merely attempting to stop you from becoming irrate. You are reading far too much into what people are saying (and by people I mean me). I am not at all attempting to lecture you, I was merely attempting to expand your thinking on the subject, broaden your mind. You seem to be in this little box when you state your opinions, and I was merely attempting to let you see outside the box, not change your opinion. The mere fact that you believe me to be lecturing you obviously shows that I have failed and didn't present my thoughts properly. But as BigD said, please be calm and stop assuming that people are being mean to you, because frankly no one is. You are simply using indirect reasoning to have your reasons and I'm using direct reasons, neither or which are bad, just different.

Now, you are correct that there are more GFs in the world, I should have phrased that differently. But, look at Selphie's tribute to Laguana, and look at the picture. She is standing in the second screen of the Centra Ruins, plain as day.

[Big D]

Actually, the guy mumbles about fighting a Toonberry, not a Toonberry King.
He definitely states, "Tonberry King" in the PAL version of the game, and according to others, in the US version too.
It's explained pretty well, so far as I can see. How it works, why it's necessary... they cover it all quite thoroughly.

I know why it is necessarry, but how it works is left completely unexplained. Feel free to try and explain it(PM me I guess, since it would be off topic) though, I like discussing things like TC.Just as Fire spells unleash a controlled amount of fire in a specified place, Time Compression affects space-time, causing a large amount of time to be drawn together into a single point in time. Ultimecia was trying to bring all of time, or at least a large portion of it, together so that she could absorb the powers of all sorceresses throughout history, but fortunately it didn't come to that. Time Compression is just a very powerful magic spell; but where the regular elemental and non-elemental spells manipulate matter and energy, Time Compression manipulates time. The spell has to be used in two different, distant points of time; if there is not enough intervening time encompassed by the initial casting, then then it won't be effective. The spell needs to work in two ways, by going into the past and into the future, in order to compress a sufficient amount of time.
Some of this is explained directly in the game, some of it is conjecture which fits the facts well enough for me.

[Lord Xehanort]

I'd like to confirm something here:

The main GF in question is T-O-N-B-E-R-R-Y.

[TasteyPies]

Toonberry is cooler

[Sir Bahamut]

Hey, be nice to BigD, he was merely attempting to stop you from becoming irrate. You are reading far too much into what people are saying (and by people I mean me). I am not at all attempting to lecture you, I was merely attempting to expand your thinking on the subject, broaden your mind. You seem to be in this little box when you state your opinions, and I was merely attempting to let you see outside the box, not change your opinion. The mere fact that you believe me to be lecturing you obviously shows that I have failed and didn't present my thoughts properly. But as BigD said, please be calm and stop assuming that people are being mean to you, because frankly no one is. You are simply using indirect reasoning to have your reasons and I'm using direct reasons, neither or which are bad, just different.

Sorry, I did get snappish, I must apologize for that. I know you were merely trying to make an argument, and I misread that.

Anyway, no need to argue anymore. We both have our own opinions.

As for the picture, I know it is of her in the ruins, but since it doesn't actually say that this was when she was on her school outing, it's not conclusive.

So no point arguing anymore.


He definitely states, "Tonberry King" in the PAL version of the game, and according to others, in the US version too.

Really? Well, perhaps you're right. I might check some other time, but I can't be bothered any time now, because it's so insignificant anyway.


Just as Fire spells unleash a controlled amount of fire in a specified place, Time Compression affects space-time, causing a large amount of time to be drawn together into a single point in time. Ultimecia was trying to bring all of time, or at least a large portion of it, together so that she could absorb the powers of all sorceresses throughout history, but fortunately it didn't come to that. Time Compression is just a very powerful magic spell; but where the regular elemental and non-elemental spells manipulate matter and energy, Time Compression manipulates time. The spell has to be used in two different, distant points of time; if there is not enough intervening time encompassed by the initial casting, then then it won't be effective. The spell needs to work in two ways, by going into the past and into the future, in order to compress a sufficient amount of time.
Some of this is explained directly in the game, some of it is conjecture which fits the facts well enough for me.

I'll reply to this later in the Time Loops and R=U thread, since the Time Loops bit seems to make it more on-topic there than here, no?