Shinra

[Zante]

I don't realy think the Shinra are bad. Here is why place:

1, They are fighting Cloud and co, but only because there are terorists. They blew up a reactor, didn't they? Althroug I admit that they are dealing with them rather excessive.

2, OK, they were sucking up the life energy of the planet. But don't many other organisations polute the air and the waters, or cut out forests? They weren't ecological, but I wouldn't call this evil.

3, They went after the same goal as Cloud and co-defeating Sephiroth. It's not their fault that Cloud always went into their way.

I'm not saing the Shinra are pure goodnes, or that Cloud is the real villian of the game, only that Shinra isn't an evil organisation, only a industy looking after their bussiness.


What do you think?

[Wrexsoul]

I think most of the Shinra was pretty freakin' corrupt. I think in the past they were just an industry looking after their business, but somewhere along the line, things got way out of hand. Rufus was pretty crooked, and so was his old man.... though Reeve's not a bad guy, and the Turks aren't inherently evil. I'd say the latter is an example of just doing their job.

[Jolts]

They were frickin' playing God, making clones and monsters! They also killed an old man for trying to help Barret and Dyne.

What good do you see in that?

[Zante]

I didn't say they were good. And wasn't it Scarlet who killed the man?

[Jolts]

Scarlet is part of Shinra, and I don't recall her getting fired like she should have.

[Zante]

Not all of Shinra are like her. Reeve is proof of that and the most people in the Shinra building seemed quite normal to me too. And there was nobody who could fire Scarlet at that point, and I don't think an ordinary soldier would say anithing against their supperiors

[Jolts]

I would. Reeves seems to be the only non-corrupt person there. All the minor soldiers will do anything they're told, so they're no better.

[Zante]

Cloud and even Zack were shinra soldiers too. And they would likely stay in Shinra if it wouldn't be for the incident. Would you say they were evil too?

[Jolts]

If they performed evil deeds, yes.

[Zante]

Maybie they did... :radred:

[Jolts]

I doubt it. Wasn't the Nibelheim mission their first?

[Zante]

I doubt it too, but it's possible. I think it wasn't Zacks first mission, only Clouds.

[Heath]

I think Rufus was quite a noble leader actually, and wasn't really evil. He certainly did a lot more for the people than his father did, and saved a heck of a lot of lives.

[nik0tine]

"2, OK, they were sucking up the life energy of the planet. But don't many other organisations polute the air and the waters, or cut out forests? They weren't ecological, but I wouldn't call this evil."

yes there are many corporations today that. and you know what, those corporations ARE BAD! one of the messages of FF7 in my opinion, was not to allow for corporations to abuse people, destroy the environment, throw wars like a party, or lie cheat and steal, for the sole purpose of profit. its sickening, is what it is.

[BG-57]

And what about the dropping of the Sector 7 plate That always struck as the mosty inherently evil act in the game. And who did it? Shinra.

[Turk]

The whole Final Fantasy VII storyline is very relavent to today.

Wars today such as the one in Iraq, are actually feuled by corporations looking for business opportunities, in this case oil. Corporations like Haliburton which also have connections to people very high in the US government (like Dick Cheney) are really the ones running shit, and they hire PMCs (Private Military Companies) to protect their assets in whatever country the army is attacking. For example, ever heard the term "private military contractor"? Cute term for mercenary. These mercenaries also do not have to abide by the Geneva Convention for war nor are they subject to US Military tribunals.

If the US government wasn't employing these types of people you'd have a draft...Yeah so that's how FFVII is relative today. Anyone else interested in masonic or Illuminati theories can also connect the dots for themselves.

[DJZen]

I don't realy think the Shinra are bad.

It's true. No organization that houses Heidegger could ever be evil. :love:

[escobert]

Anyone else interested in masonic or Illuminati theories can also connect the dots for themselves.
My familys been apart of the masons for a long time. My grandfather was the head mason type person in our town :p

[-N-]

The Shinra were acting in the best interests of their company's survival and profitability. Part of the company's survival depended on removing threats such as Weapon. Part of the company's survival depended on nullifying Cloud's party, since they acted in opposition to Shinra. I think the means taken to achieve their ends is what is troubling.

It's an interesting power triangle; one between Shinra, Cloud, and Sephiroth, where all three have the capacity to take control. One could easily see it being resolved in a number of different ways. Then there are the bit players - Hojo is a great example. *shivers as he realizes how awesome FFVII is, dammit*

[mr. anderson]

shinra inc. isnt really evil, and rufus wasnt evil at all and was basically going after sephiroth just like cloud, and the turks are like assasans hired from the military so they're not evil either, just doing what they're getting payed for.


overall, shinra is basically just like a major company trying to make some profit

[Zante]

yes there are many corporations today that. and you know what, those corporations ARE BAD!

Harming the enviroment isn't theyt goal. Althroug it isn't good, it is necessary. Our society needs electricity, fuel and other things like this. The same goes for Mako. Without it, you even wouldn't be able to use materia at all.


And what about the dropping of the Sector 7 plate That always struck as the mosty inherently evil act in the game. And who did it? Shinra.

Althroug this isn't an excuse, they wouldn't do it if Avalanche wouldn't attack the reactors in the first place.

[mr. anderson]

yeah, they only dropped the sector seven plate because they were trying to get rid of the terroists,avalanche for blowing up two reactors

[Jolts]

Ya'll forgetting about them creating mutants and monsters from human life in Nibelheim? HELLO! If that's not bad enough for you, nothing is.

Also, Jenova was a parasite from space, who contaminated anything in its path. Instead of trying to destroy for the good of mankind, Shinra was trying to expoit for a weapon of war!

[Zante]

I don't remember them creating monsters from humans. Shinra actualy saved everyone in Nibelheim.

[Jolts]

Play through Cloud's Past again, Sephiroth explains the whole story. He also blames Hojo for it. They were only saving Nibelheim from monsters that they created themselves.

Look at that, the whole post was a spoiler :lol:.

[Zante]

What I meant was that they revived everyone after Sephiroth went berserk.

[Jolts]

Actually, In Hojo's letter (it's on Tifa's desk when you get back to Nibelheim and everyone thinks Cloud lied), he states that they hired actors and actresses to take their place.

[Zante]

I'll chech the letter next time I'm there. :) Then Tifa should be an actor too, shouldn't she?

[Turk]

^I don't like Tifa, that bytch is shady

[Jolts]

I'll chech the letter next time I'm there. :) Then Tifa should be an actor too, shouldn't she?
Not if she survived. Plus, nobody said Squaresoft was perfect when making this part of the storyline :lol:.

[Rand Al'Tor]

This entire post is SPOILERIFIC!










Shinra is pretty evil all right. Yeah, they fought Sephiroth. So? Stalin fought Hitler.

1: The dropping of the plate. And I REALLY don't think Prez Shinra Senior did it 'out fo the goodness of his heart' It was a purposeful move to shove it in the shoes of AVALANCHE, and get more obedience himself.

2: They often use assassinations, war and terror to gain power. Look at Nort Correl (an entire village, ERADICATED! And it's not like Scarle could have done that without Prez Shinra's concern) , look at Condor Fortress (military atack, and that started BEFORE the huge Materia was needed to save the world) look at Niebelheim (and yeah, all of he ORIGINAL inhabitants were killed by Sephiroth OR experimented on by Hojo, and they covered it all up) look at Wutai (another war)

3: The draining of the planet. But really, that is not merely Shinra but humanity in general that is to blame. After all, everyone is happily using it... Of cousre, oppinions differ, and a parallel to the real world is quickly made. (use a company's products = become partly responsible for all the company's actions?)

Shinra is definately evil... as for the individuals.

Shinra + Rufus: They are head honchos...: Shinra gave the command to kill thousands of innocents, Rufus comes out and SAYS he intends to use fear and terror to rule. I like Rufus as much as you, but the guy is every bit as evil as Sephiroth, he just doesn't have the means to become a god because he isn't a Jenova-created being. Little doubt as to what HE would do in Seph's shoes though.

Hojo: Strangely enough, he was not after power but knowledge. But he experimented on unwilling humans and other people ALL along the way. Near the end we can say he was insane though, and might not be held responsible for his actions anymore.

Scarlet + Heidegger: They knew of the plans and happily went along with them. Scalet oversaw the slaughter of Corel. Heidegger executed the Sector 7 massacre. They're evil. (but he, DJzen, just becasue you're evil doesn't mean you can't be SEXY)

The Turks: Not evil, you say? They're likable but... These people are kidnappers, saboteurs and assassins. Reno was the one who Ppushed the button and thus the immediate responsible for thousands of innocent lives lost, he never showed regret over it, and it's not like the Turks seem to be FORCED to work for Shinra. When they feel like it, they take a vacation so.... As for Tseng, he spend a good few years trying to capture a little girl (Aeris) so a mad professor coulde experiment on her. Elena seems the most innocent of the gang, but that's relaive. Then there is Don Corneo... yeah, he's a disgusting guy, but the turks were sent after him not for that, but because he blabbed about Sector 7. That's grade A evil right there.

Reeve: Now we're getting into troubled water. Reeve clearly didn't LIKE the evil Shinra commited, but he stayed with them. In quite a high position. AND he betrayed Cloud and the gang as well. Near the end, he started to redeem himself. (first by sacrificing a doll, later by actually running personal risk) But moreso than any of the other people who worked for Shinra, he KNEW how rotten Shinra was.

Then of course there is Cloud, Barret, Vincent, Tifa and Cid, who all worked for the Shinra in one way or the other. But how far did they know how evil it was? The question is really teh same you can ask about Germans during the Hitler period? How much did they know? How much should they have done? Not everyone can be a hero and spit in the SS' face as he got shot, but where does 'not being a hero' end and 'joining he evil' begin? There's quite some questions FFVII asks, and people still haven't agreed on the answer.